Those who mapped caps lock to control, how do you press keys on left side with caps lock?

Like Caps lock + a, Caps + c or v are very uncomfortable. Caps + a even requires you to totally change hand position from the home row. The most common C-c, C-v we use in other programs become messy with using Caps. I personally bound my right alt to caps which I use most often. When I have to control plus keys on right hand side, I press left control with edge of my palm. This is also not that good but seems better than Caps lock. Dunno why the control keys are placed so badly on keyboards when they are the ones used to make keyboard shortcuts for almost every program.

poring finger or thumb usually. Not really that hard

no right control? If you use mac, you can hold enter as control, with karabiner.

Ring finger

I agree that control is used frequently enough to merit being on both sides. Karabiner is really useful for this, although you end up with a very esoteric keyboard! Enter is a bit of a stretch for me so I bound that one to super (which I very rarely use), and I have ctrl on tab and right-cmd. Do you find the control and option keys quite awkward to use as modifiers on a macbook, or is that just me?

Depends

I’m not obsessed with keeping my hands on home row.

On Linux, I personally use [xcape](https://manpages.debian.org/bullseye/xcape/xcape.1.en.html) to configure the Return key to work as one of the Control key when held.

Doesn't it waste time and focus to keep moving hand out of home row? Also think of this, this is just for 2 fucking keys. Almost every other key is accesible from home row comfortably except for the 2 fucking control keys which are like one of the most useful.

If you have sticky keys enabled, these keybinds are much easier on the hand especially with a large button like capslock.

I don’t find it wastes time/focus. But again, I’m not obsessing over how long it takes me to type things so I’m not really going to notice things like that. My goals aren’t typing speed, basically. It’s not like I’m paid per line of code or whatever.

I would suggest using d and k as ctrl and f & j as alt when holding down the key. Also map space to shift when holding down then you wouldn’t need to use your pinky at all.

After mapping caps lock to control, i rest my little/pinky finger on caps lock and index finger to reach c,v,x. Little finger remains on the home row always. In addition to terminal, few emacs keybindings like ctrl-d,a,e work in other mac apps also.

What kind of keyboard are you using? It's not for everyone, but _in general_ using the side of your palm should become comfortable/intuitive pretty quickly. How is your typing? I'm not trying to insinuate that its bad, but I have witnessed that being a pretty common barrier when it comes to specific workflows and tools.

TBH I don't really see the complaint here. My fingers rest on the home row in their normal position except I've trained my pinky to rest on the caps-lock key. Everything else happens as normal. Here's the fingers I use for some commands: `C-a`: Pinky on caps-lock; Ring finger on 'a' `C-c`: Pinky on caps-lock; Index finger on 'c' `C-x`: Pinky on caps-lock; Middle finger on 'x' I'm on macOS and use Karabiner to map left-control to caps-lock. I've also mapped my option key to my command key. I dislike having to tuck my thumb underneath my hand to hit option when trying to use Meta commands.

I have CapsLock doing double duty: hold for Ctrl, tap for Menu key (which I use as a prefix key in Emacs). I did the same with the Enter key on the right side (hold for Ctrl, tap for Enter), so that can cover keys on the left like "C-a". BUT I don't actually use either of those keys for Ctrl very often. My pinkies tend to get sore easily, so I'm trying to minimize their use. So the thing that's worked best for me has been number-row modifiers. I've tried a few different arrangements. The one I'm settled on currently is numbers 4 and 9 as Ctrl (either middle finger) and 3 and 0 as Ctrl+Alt (ring fingers). Tapping those keys emits their respective characters. Hold them down, and they act as modifiers. I'm okay with the regular position of Alt (when used by itself), so I don't bother changing that. [Kmonad](https://github.com/kmonad/kmonad) is great for this. It's multiplatform, and its configuration files have a very Lispy syntax (with an [Emacs major-mode](https://github.com/kmonad/kbd-mode) for editing them even!). Here are the relevant lines from my `defalias` block, in case you want to try it out. (defalias menctl (tap-hold-next-release 200 cmp lctl) ;; for CapsLock key retctl (tap-hold-next-release 300 ret rctl) ;; for Enter key CA3 (tap-hold-next-release 200 3 (around lctl lalt)) C4 (tap-hold-next-release 200 4 lctl) CA0 (tap-hold-next-release 200 0 (around lctl lalt)) C9 (tap-hold-next-release 200 9 lctl)) You would then put labels (`@menctl`, `@retctl`, `@CA3`, etc.) in a `deflayer` block at the locations for their respective keys. Some people do a similar arrangement to create "home-row modifiers". But I found it hard to get the timing right, and there were a lot of unintentional and frustrating typos. I haven't experienced that at all with number-row modifiers. Kmonad is very powerful, and I can't recommend it highly enough for this sort of thing. If you enjoy tweaking your layout, the world is your oyster.

I mapped left ctrl to space, space to :; , :; to caps, caps to esc and finally esc to left ctrl and i think it's perfect, super easy to use not only in emacs

It's one of the reasons I like Evil-mode. I do use the Caps lock as an omni-key i.e. Control when used with another key else Escape if pressed alone.

This! How so many fellow Emacs users on a Mac never heared of this is unbelievable:)

Pinky + key. I don't find C-c/C-v the least bit uncomfortable. Ctrl-a I do pinky + ring finger. I also don't use C-c/C-v for cut/paste _while on emacs_. I do for non-emacs stuff, but even then it's probably as or more comfortable as home-row stuff.

Curious why you don't just use the built-in MacOS capabilities to do the remapping (in other words, what am I missing by doing so?) I loathe the laptop KB so I have an external one with "standard" keys, so I map capslock to Ctrl and Ctrl to Cmd on that one.

Left hand shifts one key to the left, pinky on the caps key (mapped to control), ring finger on the 'a' key.

Great question, I used the built-in macOS capabilities for a long time. I switched over to Karabiner because I wanted to use my left-control key as a hyper key and drop caps lock entirely. So what I ended up doing was mapping caps-lock to left-control and then left-control to right control. I then added the following to my `init.el`: (general-setq mac-command-modifier 'meta mac-option-modifier 'super ;; Karabiner binds left-ctrl to right-ctrl mac-right-control-modifier 'hyper)

My typing teachers always taught to use the right shift when capitalizing left-hand letters, and vice versa. The same should hold for caps and alt (and meta, and super). The fingers should stay on the home row. I don't do that, quite so much. My finger tend to hover in the general vicinity of the home row, with the left hand spread from a to g (and I only have 4 fingers) and right from j to '. I almost exclusively use the left shift, control, meta, and super. Right thumb gets the space-bar. C-a is easy, as a slight twist of my hand brings my pinky over the caps-lock, ring finger over the a. The c in C-c gets done with my index finger, the same with the C-v (and C-b). But how often do you use C-v or C-b in emacs anyway? Meta and Super should get my left thumb, but I tend to look at the keyboard and break the touch-typing mindset when using them, or chorded modifiers in general.

Karabiner also allows you to have multiple bindings on the same key: e.g. you can have enter mapped to a modifier if it's held down and another key is pressed, but still have it mapped to enter if it's tapped by itself. I don't think MacOS has this ability natively.

Hmm. I don't have this problem but the left control still works so sometines I use that

what is ;; ?

I can type good enough at 50 words per minute.

how do you make d and k as control? You would just be typing d and k right?

Karabiner has complex command where if you press and hold caps lock it will be ctrl. If you press and release it will be Escape. Esc can be used as Meta and it is easy to reach if using Vim

Same here.. pivoting around the pinky FTW.. and so far, no problems with emacs-pinky for me :D

Yeah, the whole point of having bumps in f and j is precisely because you'll be leaving your home row constantly.

My issue with caps as ctrl is more that it gives me cognitive goop to switch the fingers that I use for a bunch of keys and/or stretch my hand in an uncomfortable and unhealthy way. I bought a keyboard with split space bar so now I have Ctrl in a place I can use with my thumb while pressing any other key. Emacs default keybindings feel \*so much\* better now

I have control mapped to “a” when held down, this is achieved with the help of kmonad’s “tap-hold” functionality. There’s whole notion of mapping modifiers underneath home row, it’s called “home row mod”, I recommend checking it out.

Why not just use right ctrl for ctrl-c, ctrl-x, ctrl-v?

Same. This is what convinced me to map it actually as these finger positions are more natural than being anchored to bottom row corner with your pinky.

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Right ctrl is too fucking far, certain RSI if used daily

I don't think it's a good advice, unless you remap your Enter to somewhere else, because you will end up pressing just Enter sometimes, when you just meant to quickly release Ctrl, because you accidentally pressed it. At least I have this problem with CapsLock as Ctrl & Esc. I input undesired Esc several times a week, which typically closes dialog boxes, or in Emacs, forces me to stop and press Ctrl-g twice, which is not exactly comfortable to press either.

Press and hold right ctrl with right hand. Press C with left hand. No RSI, very ergonomic.

The real solution is to put Ctrl on a thumb key.

Using interception and dual function keys, you can map keys any way you like. Tap & hold down both are available. You can find the post in ergoemacs.

> home row is overrated

if you have timing sensitive semantics, wouldn't those break over varying-latency ssh connections or even just in the terminal?

I tried that once for a few days, but I've realized that I'm using both sides of the spacebar to input space :)

they shadows C-a, which is the key combo I use the most probably, along with C-e, which is also harder to press, of Ctrl is on 'a'. I guess you have your modifiers mirrored too. I tried a layout like that for awhile, but I was getting a lot of false-positive modified key presses, while just typing plain text. it's hard to get the timing right and even you level of alertness night require different timing. so I had to conclude that home modifiers are not for everyone. I've also tried to use the row below the home row for modifiers. the rate of undesired modified input was lower that way, but since the zxcv keys were modifiers, I can only used 2 hands for copy-pasting, which is a very deeply ingrained operation, I'm expecting to do with 1 hand :/

I'm using a Leopold FC 660M brown switches lately, but my Ctrl is on CapsLock since 2007, when I worked in Japan for the 1st time, where I got a Macbook with Japanese layout :) I started to develop RSI in the past year and a half, but I've experienced joint pain in my elbows too, so the reason might be not just the keyboard layout. I'm also almost 46yo...

Get a split ergo/OL keyboard with a thumb cluster. I did that in 2014, can never go back. I have Control, Shift, & Alt on my thumbs for each hand. It's epic.

That was a quick adaptation to me. Now with both thumbs I use the middle of the spacebar

Key with colon and semicolon

No, because it doesn't rely on Emacs. Kmonad works at the kernel level on your local machine. It's like having a programmable keyboard.

Yes, everything you’ve mentioned is problematic. Yes, I have them mirrored. Homerowmod requires a lot of tuning and consistency in input speeds. I was able to get rid of false positives by forcing myself to use rapid keyrepeat with tiny repetition delay (xset r rate 130 100)+short timings for tap-hold (140ms). It’s still not perfect typing experience, but I’m able to do ~100WPM without issues. Personally I’m happy with the trade off - I’m very lazy and I hate moving my hands. However using this setup under the influence is quite frustrating. I’ve heard it’s possible to nail the tuning with QMK, but I’m yet to try that. Like you’ve said, it’s not for everybody. I’d say it’s only for people who are willing to redo muscle memory to achieve less hand movement.

I started getting "emacs pinky" from all the modifiers I was pressing, so I stopped using it altogether to press modifier keys in emacs (I still use it for normal typing in the usual way, including for Shift). Essentially, my left hand has two home positions. One is the usual home row. In the other, my thumb is on the left Alt key and my middle and ring fingers rest on caps lock. From there, I can press any combination of modifiers, along with some subset of: A, S, D, Z, X or C with my left index finger (depending on which exact modifiers are being pressed); or any key on the right side of the keyboard with any of the fingers of my right hand. All my common keybindings are either something I can press very easily using just my left hand in the lower-left corner of the keyboard without using my pinky, or use my left hand to press the modifiers and the right hand to press the key. To take your examples of C-a, C-c and C-v. I'd push all those in essentially the same way: using my ring finger on the caps lock key and my index finger to push a/c/v. But, I don't actually use those keybindings. C-c, for example, is very common so it should be done with both hands; I use C-, (actually C-w since I use dvorak), which isn't completely ideal, but my C-[home row on right hand] are all movement commands, C-[the row above that] is also taken, C-m is enter, so C-, is the next best choice I found.