Which keyboard to buy? Any Moonlander or Planck users here?

I'm considering getting a new keyboard and don't know which one to buy. ATM I'm using my regular keyboard with kmonad to evaluate home row mods, and I find it suiting and comfortable. Recently I've been looking for a new keyboard and I sort of settled on the Moonlander or Planck. Moonlander is a full fledged ergonomic keyboard and Planck is a smaller (40%) keyboard. I will often have the keyboard with me as I'm working at home and a couple of different locations at work, therefore the small planck is tempting. Anyone that uses Planck with Emacs? Will it be better to buy a larger ergonomic keyboard? Any input will be greatly appreciated.

I use Planck, with a sorta [miryoku](https://configure.zsa.io/planck-ez/layouts/6Dg3B/latest/0) layout (34 keys) Although I'm new to emacs and only use text editors for prose, and up until two weeks ago everything was in markdown. Now I've "seen the light" and switched to org… and the slow tedious task of converting a few hundred .md files into .org. That and ricing emacs

I've a moonlander. It's OK. But I do have some grievances considering the ~$400 (incl duty) I paid for it: - The wrist pad feels cheap. Mine has quite sharp edges on some of its corners where they didn't bother beveling it. They're not so sharp you'll hurt yourself or anything, but with enough of an edge that makes you wonder how that made it through QA. It's not padded either which, from my MS Natural keyboard, I'd come to like. - The wrist pad is attached to a hinge and it wobbles ever-so-slightly if you shift your weight to either side, as you're likely to do as you naturally move your hands around. - They claim, rather optimistically, of all the ways that you can angle the thumb key pad (up or down, depending on hand size and preference) and tent the keyboard so your hands maintain a normal, angled posture. But if you experiment you'll quickly realise although you *can* do that you can make the keyboard unstable and make it wobble. I emailed them about this and they never bothered addressing point #1; for #2 I was told I could jam something into the hinge mechanism to stabilise it as it's essential it has to have some 'give'. For #3 I was told I could spend another $25 and buy an extra pair of legs to make it more rigid. Aside from that, it's a pretty good keyboard, as it's really just a packaged wrapper around QMK. And strip away the marketing it's probably no different in neither quality nor much of anything else compared to its many competitors. Its online configurator's OK, though. One general complaint I have is that these fancy keyboards relish *removing* entire rows of keys with the expectation that you'll do more with less. That's fine, in theory, and once you get used to layering or whatever you choose to use, but I do wish I could buy a keyboard with all the damned keys of a regular one.

Try using pandoc to convert to org. It might get you some of the way there.

I did, but I don't think I'm using the right variable for markdown. I'd been using a chrome extension that "copy as markdown" but I'm not sure which "flavor" if it's using multimarkdown, GitHub flavored, original. There's a few more that pandoc supports. I'll just have to go through manually

Can't chip in on either of those except to recommend a split keyboard. I was looking for ergo keyboards a while ago and ended up getting a DIY kit for a corne-style keyboard. Might be worth checking out if you can be bothered soldering something together.

>Will it be better to buy a larger ergonomic keyboard? IMO, the main consideration is "split keyboard or not", rather than number of keys. It's easy to get used to not having a number row: I tried an unsplit 5x12 in a GH-60 case after being used to the a 40% ortho. I ended up not using the number row. (I've also used a custom budget split 36-key keyboard). -- That said, if you need to do work with mouse + keyboard (like playing FPS games, or inputting numbers while mainly using a mouse), then the planck isn't very good at that. (I was fine with 40% ortho for KiCad, but ymmv). I think if you plan on using the keyboard from multiple locations, it would be better to go with the planck. -- The setup of moving the split keyboard around would be annoying. If you're using laptop and plan on putting the external keyboard on top of the laptop's, it would be easier to fit a planck than a split keyboard.

>I use Planck, with a sorta miryoku layout (34 keys) My initial impression of layouts like this was that they were weird. I was convinced to try it once I realised it allowed the thumb to reach more keys, and there were fewer keys for the pinky finger to press.

Agreedmostly. I am using an Ergodox EZ and i love it. The big difference, though, is the split and ortholinear layout.

I like a good qwerty with keys remapped at the OS level and modal typing (xah fly keys). This is because I (1) want to transition from external to laptop and vice-versa without issues and (2) don't like futzing with split arrangements. My external keyboard of choice atm is a [Havit Low Profile 87-key.](https://www.prohavit.com/products/hv-kb390l-low-profile-mechanical-keyboard?_pos=1&_sid=26e647587&_ss=r) I've remapped caps-lock to a insert-mode/command-mode switcher, remapped my Enter key to left bracket (reduces ulnar deviation).

Get yourself a japanese keyboard (for japanese market). It has short space key and aditional 3 keys where the long space key is in "normal" keybaord. Those keys are perfect for mapping emacs mod keys (ctrl/alt) so you can press them with your thubms. I can recommend the japanese version of the realforce keyboard (topre). I have 2 of them. One is always at home and the other one is always in my laptop backpack... Here is an example of what I am talking about: https://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/japanese-realforce-91uby-mini-black-on-yellow-keyboard.asp

I've got an Ergodox EZ, the precursor to the Moonlander. For me, the kicker is that I can program my keyboard. I have CTRL key triggered when I long press on my middle fingers (k and d), and META key triggerd when I long press on "inner" keys for index fingers (h and g). This is the real win for me, I never have to move my hands to use a modifier, it has completely saved me from wrist pain and Emacs pinky. To me, paying $350 + Shipping to my country + VAT etc was a lot of money, but considering that I use my keyboard basically 8 hours a day, it was 100% worth it. Now, if you don't like the idea of a split keyboard and if you want portability, I don't think Moonlander / Ergodox will be good for you. But I cannot recommend the programmability (QMK) enough, Planck got it so go for that if you want something small. Ergonomically that would not work for me though.

I have a Planck, and it's very nice hardware, but difficult to use with Emacs due to how few keys there are. The 40% size means that you already have to use layers just to access fairly common printable ASCII chars (like numbers or any symbols on those keys). That's a pretty bad combination with Emacs' modifier-heavy bindings, the inputs get very complex as you have to navigate layers and modifiers to enter the right key sequence. YMMV, though. If you're using vi-style bindings, use less modifiers than I do, it might work. But it definitely wasn't for me. I've been using an Ergodox since 2014 or something like that, and I like it a lot. I built mine from a kit, but I think you can still get an Ergodox EZ if that's not your jam. My gf has a Moonlander, it's pretty nice. I haven't tried using it for a day, but I think it'd be fine. Moonlander is based on the Ergodox, with redesigned thumb clusters.

Owner of a Planck rev6 and a Corne keyboard (not a Moonlander but a split keeb as well) I absolutely love the Corne and only go back to the Planck every now and then to “remind” myself of how much more comfortable I find split keebs. The ortholinear vs columnar stagger on the Planck and Corne (most split keebs) respectively is something to perhaps consider as well as I far prefer the latter. Both are amazing, the Planck opened my perspective and made me feel comfortable going for a split which was even smaller. Probably the best thing I’ve ever done was use control, shift, alt and super on the home row.

I use a planck for my day to day work. If i wasn't using meow-mode or a similar modal system (like the more mainstream evil), I think I'd go back to another keyboard. I personally do also have an ergodox but could never seem to get it "right" for me, something always seemed a little off, or a little awkward; but, that might just be me. I could definitely see the benefit in that split layout versus the planck, especially in reference to the thumb clusters.

And less finger movement overall, index reaches the most/furthest. Simple a matter of remembering which layer has what key.

I got a travel case for my Pok3r and my main keyboard is a Vortex Vibe (60% + 10-key). I looked at going smaller, but it started feeling like it was overloading all of the keys with special functions too much. As others have said you have a lot of key binding options in Emacs to work around that, but I think it somewhat depends on what other software you have to use day to day.

i'm using a preonic (thought a planck might be too small, but never tried), very happy with it

I use a Planck EZ as my main keyboard, writing both prose and code (web dev and applied nlp), using Doom Emacs with evil mode. I've made only minimal changes - holding esc is left ctrl; holding enter is right shift - and it works great with Emacs. The mix of vim bindings plus Doom's leader key approach is what make it successful for me though.

I use a moonlander. The split is nice. Arms can go straight. I don’t like working with less keys. I’ve been typing for 45 years and I would like keys being where I expect them to be.

I have a moonlander. It took me a long time of tweaking layouts to get a configuration that was good enough for me to stop fiddling with it. I can fly with it now but I don’t think I would recommend it to other people. The money and time investment are considerable and I suspect I would be happier with a simpler and better constructed alternative.

I use a Moonlander and it's the best keyboard I've ever used, hands down. It's great with Emacs!

I use a Planck, but as an Emacs user the real key (pun intended) is to setup [home row mods](https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods). Using layers instead of moving your hands around so much is already great, but this takes it to the next level - Ctrl, Meta, Super, etc. are all accessed using the same comfortable keys. I personally love the idea of a split keyboard, but when touch typing I get frustrated when either of the sides is a bit off. It seems I spend all day adjusting them. For some reason I don't have that problem with the Planck. Obviously there is only one piece, but I think it has to do with being heavier than two smaller sides. Howeever, I know lots of people love them including someone I work with daily (a Corne). I think both would be good, but I honestly have keys I don't even use on my Planck so I'm not sure what I'd do with all of the keys on an ML. However, I do love the company - my first ortho was a Planck EZ that I still use sometimes. The company is great and their Oryx software for setting it up is great. As a C programmer, I'm quite comfortable with QMK, but that could be a factor also. Let us know what you choose.

Keymacs

I have a planck and I love love love it. With that said I plan on getting a kinesis advantage 360

I have two Mistel MD770, brown & blue switches, looks like this: https://mistelkeyboard.com/products/d11cf7a73da49468e2a530b4cf18e76c There are two more models, one with RGB and another one with RGB and Bluetooth (the ones I have are the latter) Things I like: split, so more confortable to type on (subjective). Can be programmed directly in the keyboard. It has function keys and a cuasi-standard layout. Can be paired with up to three devices with fast switching. But, programing the keyboard can be confusing at times. And there's no thumb key cluster. It is small enough to carry in my bag with the laptop, and usually if I am working somewhere other than my desk I set the laptop in a stand and the keyboard one piece on each side. I never use right space when typing, so I remapped that key to control, and bind esc-map to F7, I'm making a habit of using ESC/F7 instead of Alt and so far it's been working pretty well.

I would choose my Atreus 2 over the Planck looking at the design. A 40% keyboard with layers will take some getting used to as well as involve some effort and creativity in customising the layout depending on your Emacs bindings. The moonlander looks great but I think the thumb cluster has too many keys. I plan to get a Keyboardio model 100 next since I use my palm to press control on normal keyboards anyway.

I own a Planck, a Moonlander and two more lightweight split keyboards for mobile use (Corne and Ferris Sweep). I would hands down always use a split and ortholinear keyboard above everything. First it’s much more comfortable (especially if you have bigger hands that just cramp over a regular keyboard. The Planck was kind of my first try to get at least the ortholinear layout for on the go (paired with Colemak DHm), but recently I have built a Corne and a Ferris Sweep myself and use it with Carpio wristrests and it’s something I would just recommend if you are dealing with doubts regarding portability. If you work mostly stationary, get the Moonlander/Ergodox, if you want to be portable buy a prebuilt Corne/Ferris/you name it.

Old comment, but I was looking at the Moonlander page and vaguely remembered a detailed review from the subreddit :) I have a Mistel MD770 ([https://mistelkeyboard.com/products/94f05206cb24bbeeb103e664e89d7b98](https://mistelkeyboard.com/products/94f05206cb24bbeeb103e664e89d7b98)) and was wondering about something with thumb clusters. I absolutely use the Function key row for bindings, so your last paragraph convinced me the Moonlander might not a comfortable solution for me. But the MD770 is... * split, which I've come to love * staggered, which might be a cons (never used an ortho keyb) * has a pretty standard layout, which I appreciate * I only type spacebar with my left hand, so I'm using the right side as an extra control Now with Karabiner (work laptop) and kmonad (personal laptop) I'm testing "space when tapped, control otherwise", that led me to wondering about thumb clusters. The MD770 is a much smaller investment than the Moonlander, so it might interest you.