God Is ...

Why does God see people fighting but not intervening? Political individuals and private organizations run poor small states as puppets, forcing them to fight against related peoples, for imaginary freedom, managing the minds of people for their profit. Since when can God not control men and their minds? Could he have done this sooner, or did God's power disappear when information technology and money power emerged? What can we now think of as God? A big-money state is God?

God doesn't care about us being comfy. We(animals) are life that feeds on life. Wherever you look at nature you'll see that God doesn't care about things that feel good or moral issues concerning human societies. That's our problem, not The Totality's problem.

>>5235 Until God intervenes, people will feel like gods and control wrld events in irl

>>5236 I'm talking about Spinoza's God. God is the people. God is things people do. God is the things that happen to people. God is everything, not an agent with a larger consciousness and capacity of action on a system, but the system itself.

We should accept that to God many of our problems are fairly insignificant, like those of children, or of sheep. Children fight all the time and we don't really intervene. It might matter a lot to them but to the adults watching it might hardly register, or be a source of laughter. Either way, its good to let them operate without continual interference from their parents and other adults. We should trust that God is wise enough to do what is right, and not complain that he doesn't swoop out of no where and solve all our problems for us. He has given us rules to obey and examples to follow, perhaps many of our failures in other areas are resulting from our failures to follow these.

>>5234 God is abstract idea of the highest good to which we should all strive for.

>>5234 God doesn't intervene because for whatever reason from his position of divine providence, allowing the free will of humanity is somehow worth the widespread suffering that ensues as a result. In Eden, we ate the fruit so that we became like God. And our Eyes Were Opened.

Look at Sodom, Babel, the flood, the plagues of Egypt, ... When god intervene it's already too late. He doesn't magically make bad people do good. Us human are responsible for our actions. It would be too easy if god magically allowed us to live sinfree without having to face temptation. If you want to live a good life it's your burden to resist the temptation to sin. God gave us all we needed to live happy life, we made it the world that we have now and we have to face the consequences.

>>5242 An all-powerful god could create a world without evil and with free-will. If he couldn't, he wouldn't be all-powerful. If he didn't, he isn't all-loving.

>>5243 maybe, or maybe we just don't understand quite what is going on, and you're the toddler who thinks his parents hate him because they don't keep giving him cookies.

>>5243 Good can only exists if evil exists. The two concepts define each other : good is everything that is not evil, evil is anything that is not good. God gives us a choice, either to live an easy life of sin, or to live an hard righteous life, if we deliberately chose to live a life of sin we shouldn't be surprised we have to face the consequences of our decision. He does love us because he is fair : if we live a righteous life, if we resist temptation, we will be rewarded. To make us irresponsible is not to be all-loving, to strip evil off this world would be to remove our choice. It is impossible to have a world that is both with free will and without evil.

Suffering is a part of life. In the bhagavata purana, it is said that even when evil rules the world, this is as god wills it. It's not even the fault of those who embody evil. My personal theory is this oppression pushes us forward to better things in the end, similar to how depressed people often end up creating the most beautiful works of art.

God is lain and lain is good, you need not question this further. Also lets all love lain.

Who made you believe that you were powerless to create good in the world? Who made you believe that you were supposed to wait for an almighty power to make things good before you could enjoy a good world? If an all-powerful entity made the world good, who would they have made it good for? A good world, for someone who doesn't try to make the world good? You'd quickly turn that good world to hell, just like the good world you were given. This almighty power would have to sit here, correcting all your mistakes constantly. Start by deserving the good world, then your complaints might have divine significance. Then some power might listen.

>>5234 The Japanese have a spiritual concept known as Kami. In Shintoism, it is believed that everything has a Kami. An ocean has a Kami, the moon has a Kami, a patch of moss has a Kami. A mountain may have a Kami, and a boulder that is part of that mountain may have a Kami too. First you need to separate the distinction between yourself and others. A drop of water is a thing. The ocean is also a thing. But if the winds blew roughly over a patch of ocean, and roaring waves and sea foam emitted a drop of water to fly out of the ocean, does it become a separate thing then? As it is flying, are it and the ocean separate things? After a while it will crash back into the water and merge with the ocean once more. At what point in the merge does it stop being a separate thing itself? Or does the thingy-ness of a drop of water persist after it has fallen into the sea? Yourself too, you should know nearly all the atoms in your body will be flushed out and replaced with atoms that came from elsewhere within your lifespan many times. Some elements that your body needs to function are things that can only be created in the supernova of stars. By chance, over eons those molecules found themselves in Earth, then in some food, then inside of your stomach, and now they make up your body. We have also seen people who have had half of their brain removed still able to act as a conscious person nearly identical to how they were before. The strangest is when we sever a person's brain in half while leaving both halves. If a screen is put between that person's eyes and hands, the two sides of them will sometimes act as if they are controlled by different entities before trying to sync up. The divine, consciousness, some pan-psychic field, or interconnecting energy of the universe exists through all of creation. A boulder can have a Kami, a person can be a Kami, think then, what is the Kami of all? Of everything? Of the entire universe itself? We call that God. Therefore, to ask, why does God do this or God do that is asking in the wrong direction. We in our lives as ourselves are like a bundle of cloth bunched up by some tie. Living as ourselves, our ego has us thinking of ourselves as a bundle of cloth. Just like how we identify the drop of water as separate from the ocean. But in truth, though we can point to the bundle of cloth tied up we experience primarily, call it a bundle of cloth, call it ourselves, and think of ourselves as that, we are ultimately just part of the same large tapestry. To die painfully is to feel the tie untie, for our ego-identified self unravel, and to smooth out becoming more solidly part of the grand fabric once again. God is good because all of creation is good. Because you and I and everything are all part of the same fabric. Do not look at a disturbance in heaven because of certain knots in the cloth causing tears if it causes you to knot and bundle up too, thinking of yourself as separate, merely a victim of a God you are not part of.

where does gods love go when the good moments turn to eternitys of suffering?

God gave people free will because He didn't want mindless meat robots. People must use their conscience and reason to choose how they act.

>>5530 You are entirely correct in YOUR judgement. Mindless meat robots; silly concept that is very true. Why do you fear your loss of atonomy and morphology? When a worker ant is born they must work in their colony, when a baby bird batch is born the mother must regurgitate food into them, we don't want to work and we don't deserve too despite that "work" is inevitable. I am simply reminding you of your mortality and immortality.

If God intervened, how would we know?

>>5530 Someone once said "God made man because he loves stories". I don't believe in god but I like it anyway.

God doesn't exist. Go read a science.

cuz god doesnt exist nothing really exist, u just hallucinating

>>5797 Found the solipsist. Solipsism is the lazy man's philosophy.

There are those who encounter god without realizing and there are those who meet god and gain some knowledge of it. When trying to pass this knowledge on they may use many different words or explanations but the truth is that it is not what they are saying but how they are saying it.

The reason God himself doesn't intervene is due to him experiencing some form of ego death. The reason he doesn't interfere with humanity is due to his own humility. He himself realizes that things take place and control their own fate. There is no reason to to destroy those very institutions that harm us when either they are eternal and are the very essence of the human experience. Our sins. Our inhibitions and desires. Our strive for power. Those key parts are essential to any human. To wipe those out is to wipe the very part of humanity that good people must need in order to fight back. In all honesty, those same institutions will also go away especially under the grand scheme of the universe. Thus, there is no reason for god himself to involve himself if those very same things are either going to always be there or fade away.

>>5868 >he pretends to know Gods reasons and plans lol nice keep dreaming. Like a four year old speculating on the designs of his parents.

>>5869 >he didn't time travel and impregnate his tranny self then transition to raise his tranny self, thereby becoming his own parents. I miss you dreadfully

>>5234 IIRC steve jobs had a similar opinion and rejected religion because of this. Depending on your faith you should either find inner peace in the face of adversity by taking refuge in god, or you should fight the system to restore balance to the world through the power of god. Money is the state god, but money is not god. >>5797 >hurrr durrr muh smimulashin!!1! >>5868 What kind of half baked philosophy is this? You are making god all too human.

As sucky and horrid as it is, the current problems with modern society and the information age is entirely our fault. Looking for 'God' to solve the issue misses the point, as everything we're talking about is made by man and exists outside God's plan. Everything that is as it is right now is because we failed to adhere to what rules He specifically told us to follow. >>5238 This is exactly right.

>>5234 first, the thesis of the existence of god presupposes a lot of things But even if it does exist, he would have created with full intention what we could call the worst or most evil thing ever. Why? Because if that thing didn't come into being, then the universe would not be perfect, because it would not have unfolded every single possibility it has, i.e., every possible thing. If it missed those "bad" things, then either: a) the universe could have been everything it is, but missing that thing, making so that the universe never exhausted all possibilities and thus not being perfect b) if it still seems bad, is only by our finite perspective, because something really bad, as in, absolutely bad, is not possible, because is literally the impossible. but maybe you would say: but those things, without them, the universe would not loose, but gain, because they have negative value. But is false that they are charged negatively, because compared to there being nothing, even the worst possible thing is better than there not existing anything. Then, they are positively valued, since they would not be better than absolutely nothing if they weren't. Then, since they have a value, and the universe holds infinite potentiality (as in that any two things can exist in the same universe, although probably not at the same time for many pair of them), then, i say, they can only add by being there. And lastly, if you cannot believe that any possible thing, even the worst one, is better than nothing, listen to the wise ethical words of this one prisoner. With the expectation of the rest of his life spent after daily hard physical torture, the torturer asks him: "why you dont give up already, and let yourself die", and the prisoner said: "but why? If i do that, there will be nothing!"

greatest power requires the lightest touch

>>5234 Either God is evil and sadistic (as is commonly depicted in religious texts, such as the God of the Bible), has no influence on our world (possibly already dead?), or simply never existed (as a singular sentient entity) at all.

>God does not exist >"lazy man's philosophy" >God's plans are unknowable >uncontested theist take I really hope religion becomes obsolete in a few centuries. Defining "God" is impossible and discussing it with theists is fruitless. I hope most of you are aware the church was used to control the peasantry with lies for thousands of years. God as the Abrahamic religions defined him is nothing more than an abstract object for an oligarchy to exert power and control under the farse of "rightfulness" and "holiness" (as opposed to an arbitrarily defined "evil" and "sinfulness"). But let's entertain the idea. "God does not exist", "God and his actions are unobservable", and "God does not do anything" are the same conclusions. It always boils down to your answer to Pascal's Wager no matter the perspective you take. Logic can not define God. What more is there to discuss?

>>6137 maybe take, a leap of faith ? Gods actions, assuming he exists as generally described, are trivially observeable but not attributeable. On the other hand, there clearly are stars and planets and living things ? Why ? science has no good answer except some long sequence of dominoes and the vauge speculation that if you drop about two hundred trillion dominoes around eventuallly you'll get a good pattern to knock them all down like this. Maybe.

>>5234 I believe that this suffering is necessary in the long run, which is to say, the longest run. We have the ability to do evil and good and we also have the ability to prevent each other from doing so, what would anyone benefit from the intervention of God? We're all said to be aspects of a greater whole and that whole has allowed us to run wild and rampant, I think the reason for that is so that the whole can understand itself in a more complete sense and work collectively towards true universal love. In the same way that some scientists study rats or children to understand some deeper whole of human psyche and mentality, I think that's what's happening with us.

>>5234 you can't just expect that much of the God/gods since they are more like an agent of order imo. you want chaos, most practitioners solicit this over spirits and demons, and demons are just tutelary beings with "prior experience" that are not part of these agents of order. >Since when can God not control men and their minds? I think it's safe to say to see your child truly grow you have to intervene less in their lives. like letting a plant seed grow on its own, only interfering when truly needed, as too much watering will make its roots "lazy" and weakened - stunted growth. >Could he have done this sooner, or did God's power disappear when information technology and money power emerged? your understanding of such power makes it look like an expendable power for all the little things, if anything it is up to us to do things on our own. maybe them meddling too much will and would bottleneck our DNA and potential. >What can we now think of as God? A big-money state is God? your referring to power so you can think of power as similar, it can have power over others then you can think it's akin to a god being - however pic related. if you think that power had been corrupted (which it is) surely it is evil, it doesn't mean god is evil, it means it's just a test of our DNA and potential - how do you deal with it? billions of minds - how?

>>5234 Consider the following: if there is a God or several, he or they probably don't even know we exist. Don't excpect magical man from space to solve our human problems. The need to belive in a higher meaning and for life to have a purpose is a human problem. Leave the gods where they are.

>>6135 The ancient religions had another explanation: the Gods simply love to see us struggle. We are their cinema. It explain a lot of things, really.

>>5234 This assumes that God is benevolent, or at least benevolent enough to intervene to make our lives cushy. Why would God intervene? If we assume man is God's creation, why would God care how we run our department? If our world is full of problems, he might just see it as our own fault. >What can we now think of as God? God is dead. Nietzsche is right that the idea of God no longer has relevance for most people. Instead we have the individual, we have man. Literally every moral debate revolves around whether X or Y is empowering for the individual or good for humanity, not if it helps us score points with the lord on high. Unlike Nietzsche, I don't see this as a positive development but I don't see anything beyond it either. The sad irony is that by making the individual a replacement for God, we've actually cheapened human life into this banal sameness where we struggle to relate to anything beyond ourselves.

>>5243 The concept of free will and a lack of evil contradicts each other.

>>6201 God creates those rules of logic, he can obviously break them if he is all-powerful

God doesn't abide by human morality, god could be bad, good, both or neither, it only depends on who you ask. >Why does god not intervene on things you would intervene? Because god is not like you.

>>5234 OP, if God were kind and benevolent the world would be a much better place, assuming God even exists and isn't just a construct made by power-hungry men or mentally unwell individuals.

god does amazing things alice he does these things so the people like myself can see how difficult it is to talk about natralizied worship of things like the shrines of wisdom or harmony but not others like truth peace or love but heaar stories of christ im a luciferian shinto follower myself in america i say im "super stitious"

>>5234 It's because we live in the post armmagedon world, God won't hear our cries for help, he has moved on.

>>5234 the first question we need to answer is "why has God created the world at the first place?". their goals might not presuppose dealing with humans' problems and eliminating the suffering.

God did create a perfect world without evil: The garden of Eden. Humans rejected it and wanted to live independently of God. God saw this and decided to let us. All the problems that came from rejecting God are our fault. We wanted a world of sin and he gave it to us.

>assuming god exists >no, assuming something exists >no, really, discussing the existence of an unprovable thing itt: retards

>>6471 Possibly I hear someone accusing retards- but I cannot prove that person to exist, therefore I hear nothing at all

Because the universe is a cellular automata that god just set up the rules for and pressed start. He doesn't even know what's happening inside because it keeps growing in complexity. You can also do this sort of thing in our universe, creating sub-universes that very rapidly grow in complexity to the point where you don't even know how it works anymore.

>>5234 https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc799329/m2/1/high_res_d/vol12-no3-159.pdf Expose an individual to the most fuarrrking stressful possible situation for CIA experiments. Do you know what that site does to a person, let alone a child? A little girl? Every little rotten fuarrrking worm, not my problem? Peace and compassion? You want to talk about god? Ay tengo una puta lista, y va cresiendo.No soy burla de nadie. Jamas.

>>5234 There is technically no free will. Everything is predetermined by God and we are all essentially props in a script. Bad things happen in order to serve as lessons for humanity to evolve eventually. This does not mean that you should just be a nihilist and do nothing. If you're fortunate enough, you can turn your life around by trying to improve yourself or some of the circumstances you're in, if that predetermined fate already allowed you to improve in whatever area in life, in advance. Never hurts to try in any positive ambition.

"God is dead and we killed him" - Nietzsche People fight for control over resources and not because someone else puppets them. Some small states grow to be large oppressors USA, Russia, Ottoman Empire, Islamic Caliphate, Rome and Macedon were small once

Im sorry lainerchan. There is no god, onlt mean people an inpending epidemics. D: