are Wiccans are mentally ill

Since this is the board of consciousness I think it is also a board appropriate for talk of mental illness. Now this realization came to me this morning. I hate wiccans as much as the next sane man and I was thinking about how generally ruin things for actual pagans. Then I proceed to think about my reading of the DSM-5 and something clicked. These people literally think they are witches, they think they are a paranormal being. When ask what they truly at heart, would die on their sword for, it is that. By definition a mental illness is a mental operation which effects the person or people around them negatively. A delusion of one self is something which negatively effect oneself and the world around them, of course you are familiar with Cotard delusion. Further more, I can discern a Freudian origin for such a delusion which echos in the mind of all female wicca. They all suffer from extreme penis envy and use wicca to cope. Witches are an example of a Jungian sorcerer archtype, a female sorcerer archtype. A sorcerer archtype is a symbol of power they don't have, power witch women as a sex lacks. That is why it is based around female power to make them believe females have power over man or at least equal to them. The so called religion is a front for this as it isn't new religion what so ever. I don't just mean wicca being 100 years old, I mean the source of ideas which they use to build wicca. It is all repurposed European gods primarily one's of a Celtic faith, are reused such as Morrigan repurposed as the mother goddess and Cernuous as the green man. This is mystery in till you realize this is a culture bound disorder in western countries. The original religion of the west for a few thousand years were these kinds of religion and thus an ancestral religion of the followers of wicca. To repurpose it to fit with their psychopathology is only natural. It is also considered pagan to their followers which is frowned upon by Christianity. Christianity is a religion of God, YhWh, Jehovah and christ, a strong male presence. Christianity represents a strong male authority, a father, not a mother but someone who is male who disciplines the daughter. So as this being a strong father figure the wiccan with penis envy would naturally be apposed to it. Being a apposed to this authority figure it is natural then to be rebellious and blasphemous, ect. So at that point it would be your sworn duty to be everything this figure hates, be a slut, be bi-curious, be Pagan, be worse then that a witch who hails his sworn enemy perhaps. It all aligns perfectly to be an internalized of apposable towards the father figure caused due to penis envy. This all seems like either a mental illness with in it's self or possibly an under lying mental illness which causes it. It has direct cause to it, various symptoms which could be diagnosed along with the fact it is a delusion which negatively effects the person and the people around them. If it isn't a mental illness to most it is at least a complex/complexes or a result of a complex/complexes. What does lain think here?

>>4299 >Further more, I can discern a Freudian origin for such a delusion which echos in the mind of all female wicca. They all suffer from extreme penis envy and use wicca to cope. Witches are an example of a Jungian sorcerer archtype, a female sorcerer archtype. A sorcerer archtype is a symbol of power they don't have, power witch women as a sex lacks. That is why it is based around female power to make them believe females have power over man or at least equal to them. which women lack

> To repurpose it to fit with their psychopathology is only natural. yeah, I think you are onto something here, wicca and druidry is riddled with modern leftist ideology. imo you shouldn't mix C.G Jung with wicca bs, even though I understand why someone would hold him accountable for all the new-age craze. Also, modern paganism is not just wicca and druidry, you've also got asatru, heathenism, odinism, etc which, to me, seem more solar than lunar, hence why they appeal more to right-wing men. check out Survive The Jive on youtube, well sourced and interesting vids

>>4301 I don't fault Jung, I use Jung's theories to explain it like how I used Freud's. Druidry isn't the same as wicca, it has been sold out like Odinnism has. This is due to the same thing that has made wicca what it is, penis envy and other internal complexes. There is paganism, the innate religions of the people of the earth. Such as Odinnism, Hellenism, Druidry, Zoroastrianism, Kemetism, hinduism etc. Then there is neo-paganism such as wicca and heathenry. Modern paganism doesn't make sense as a term because both neo and classical paganism are both worshipped now.

>>4302 >I don't fault Jung my bad, I thought you were, having used him as pic related. I'm not sure I quite understand everything, why is Druidry sold out like Odinism ? if you mean politically, I agree. And for you, this would be for almost the same psychological reasons wicca exists ? > innate religions of the people of the earth hm, you could go back further to proto-indo-european myths, most of your examples are based on them.

>I hate wiccans as much as the next sane man So you don't care about wiccans?

>>4305 he's trying to explain why he hates them so much, and how they ruin things for people actually tryng to honor their ancestors

>>4299 >These people literally think they are witches, they think they are a paranormal being. When ask what they truly at heart, would die on their sword for, it is that. If you're talking exclusively about people with that amount of dedication (so not including casuals), would you consider it far to apply the same conclusion to more accepted religions? (e.g. Christians who literally think Jesus Christ was the son of YhWh and could die for him are mentally ill). For the record I would, but good luck having that assertion seriously considered in a meaningful situation. >Freudian You have no high-ground to diagnose others as delusional. Most of his ideas are useless in serious discussion. >A delusion of one self is something which negatively effect oneself and the world around them Did you mean disorder? A delusion doesn't have to be negative, just stubborn to contradicting evidence. There's nothing more or less special about Wiccan delusions than any other supernatural delusions (basically most other religions). They're all the same soykaf, caused by comparable underlying factors and complexes. You just find Wiccians more annoying, I guess.

>>4306 >how they ruin things for people actually tryng to honor their ancestors Joining a religion to honor your ancestors is mentally ill regardless. How do they ruin things for people actually trying to honor their ancestors?

>>4308 let's hear OP on that. saying that honoring your ancestors is mentally ill, is dismissing the entire original spirituality of humanity, you really need to get educated, if you're a fedora-sporting lainon, then we have not much to further discuss.

>>4310 >saying that honoring your ancestors is mentally ill That's not what I said.

>>4311 well, do you mean in practice or ideologically speaking ?

>>4312 I mean it's fine to honor your ancestors, but doing it through a belief in religion is a foolish way to do it. It's comparable to believing good smells block disease to honor your ancestors. It's literally a delusion. To be clear, I'm not talking about performing rituals for the sake of tradition, I'm talking about actually believing a religion with belief systems, because they did.

>are Wiccans are mentally ill no, but freudians and jungians fit the sane man's definition of mentally ill

>>4313 go beyond freud and read jung as well and also lacan specifically surrounding semiotics. there's very little difference underneath the hood from performing an elaborate spell to give yourself strength and going to a therapist with the intent of assessing solutions to your lack of motivation brought about by depression. There is places in the world where one of those might work consistently and the other one wouldnt. and thats my only issue with wiccans im not sure many of them have the kind of mental environment to be doing anything besides driving themselves into neuroticism.

>>4314 This is cope you are coping, a no you response if you will. By definition a Freudians are the most sane as their views line up most with proven theory. The definition of a mentally ill person is a person with mental processes who effect them and the people around them. This matches wiccans quite well as it make's them think they are witches, a being which does not exist. They also create loads and loads of false anthropological writings to go along with their mental illness. >>4307 They believe the living dead exist, which we can't be sure of entirely or at least they say that. There is no direct delusion since they don't believe they are the living dead; a Cotard illusion. Penis envy and his theories on psychosexual development are still used, along with the theory of the sub-conscious. He is the base of modern psychoanalysis, he is far more respected then the neo-pagan in England. No I put the right term, I was pointing out that it would fall under the definition for a disorder. Wiccan isn't really much of a religion in it self, since they call themselves witches, spell casters, not religious followers. Religion in it self is natural and because of that isn't a delusion. All cultures and people have had a religion so we could say it is instinct such how language is. I do find wiccan not just annoying but a complete mishap of human development. Which would lead to concept that because of that, a mental illness is underlying. Most to all disorders are fault to development and wicca is quite the same.

>>4308 >Honoring your ancestors is mentally ill How, it is natural and is helps a culture have pride in it's self. it is extremely beneficial. Joining a religion to honor your ancestors is equally common, most religions are about one's ancestors. >>4304 Ok there was 7 religions of Europeans which came from the original religion of their forebears Odinism, Hellenism, Hindu, Druidry, Zoroastrianism and the religions of Jupiter and Perun. This is called classic European paganism and paganism is the natural religion's of humanity, folk religions. Neo-paganism is the religions which drawl inspiration from the base religions with out actually being such. They either have very liberal politics such as wicca or very right wing politics such as heathenry, which was started in the third Reich. Neo-paganism isn't real paganism, it is either a cash grab, an attempt to give oneself identity or a like I said a mental illness. >>4305 As a man who studies the social sciences and find my self intrigued by the pagan ways of old. I dislike their attempts to insert their ideas and obvious mental illness into it. Most people would also find them annoying for the reason they think they are witches and threaten to curse people. All traits of this disorder is reasons why most hate them, witch delusion, penis envy, etc. >>4313 Do something just to do it isn't a delusion because there is no disconnect of reality. Your ancestors did it and they exist, doing something for them isn't a delusion. >>4316 Correct, doing spells in a tribe of followers may bring a psychosomatic effect. A person surrounded by people who think they are witches attempting to curse people and gain power like a warlock in a video game isn't healthy. It would create a world of fantasy even more then they already are in. It would interfere with the people around them who half to deal with this person who believe they are casting spells. The best course of action for a person like this is to keep them far away from anyone like this. Keep them away from any which hats, brooms, herbs, alchemy, weed, music which plays into the fantasy such as darkwave, gothic rock, dungeon synth or black metal. Them have them talk with a fully functional woman about their lost feelings of power. If they work through it head on instead of living in their own world, they will improve. It is like people who age regress to feel innocent when innocence is lost. They regress to a mindset where they have power, to feel they have power when power is lost. It seems like there is a lot of people who are Wicca here who feel personally insulted. I would like to say, that you are not a witch merely need the right person to talk to. Please lay down on my lazy boy as you tell me about your father and if he was there in your life, did he abuse you, did he touch you, tell me everything. I am all ears

>>4318 Have to deal with them

The psycho spill aside, this sound like a stupid way to rationalize (christian) religion. What exactly justifies an trad religion practioner to value ancestors which is excluded from the neo religion folks (wicca is only one example here)? What about the non-abrahemtic religions? How do ya gender nirvana? Why exactly is a penis focused religion more bound to order? What about the countless splits in the abrahemetic religions, at what point do they get legitimacy? Is an orthodox religion more legitimate than lets say a new evangelical churches? What is keeping you from introspect why you feel hurt by a bunch mid-aged larp woman?

>>4320 All religions which evolve naturally from humanity is just human nature taking hold. The major point to look at is that these people think they are witches which they obviously aren't. Why they want to believe they are strong magic female being is because they want to regain the power they feel like they lost. It is barely about the shameless copy of druidism and more about the people who use it. Yes the so called religion mis-informs most about religion and such the same could be said about the rest of neo-paganism. Wiccans are the only one I have seen so far which have obvious signs of mental illness. Please stop projecting your complexes, penis envy and possible mental illness on to the various faiths of man. It is starting to make me cringe and doesn't make wicca look any better.

>>4318 Learn to read before you write.

>>4318 >They either have very liberal politics such as wicca or very right wing politics such as heathenry, which was started in the third Reich. Neo-paganism isn't real paganism, it is either a cash grab, an attempt to give oneself identity or a like I said a mental illness. There's some broad assumptions here. In many cases it's true, but you're phrasing this as if it's always true, which it isn't. My own neo-pagan beliefs aren't very liberal or right wing, nor is it about cash, identity or delusion. It's about amusement, meditation and philosophy. >Most people would also >[...] most hate them Most people don't know and don't care about a fringe neo-pagan LARP. >Your ancestors did it and they exist, doing something for them isn't a delusion. My ancestors held a delusional belief, honestly holding that delusional belief, purely to honor them, is delusional, because that belief is delusional. Do something just to do it isn't inherently a delusion because there is no disconnect of reality. Holding a delusion just to do it is delusional because there is a disconnect of reality.

>>4318 >A person surrounded by people who think they are witches attempting to curse people and gain power like a warlock in a video game isn't healthy. It would create a world of fantasy even more then they already are in. It would interfere with the people around them who half to deal with this person who believe they are casting spells. nay not correct then you dont agree with me. id look at this more anthropologically. your looking at this with too much judgement and preconceived notions about these things. people claiming magic powers that we might interact with say online are doing so to avoid confronting some kind of reality or developing actual mental coping skills and strengths. But for a culture where this is their way of interacting with the brain the power isnt the same thing but is pointing to the same phenomena but contextualized within their shared worldview. I dont suspect we will agree on this though because as much as I also love psychology I see it as dealing with something inherently subjective and thus requiring a lot of fluidity and suspension of your beliefs and you see it as all very objective. To me psychology is good and better than many sciences when this is accepted. I think if this is something you actually want to treat your going to not have a good time and run into the issue that shattering someones worldview as this illusion only works when you assume it to be an illusion and yours not to be. People will resist in ways that you will never be able to puzzle together so long as you don't take parts of their worldview into account as if it was something objective. And im not talking about the people on this board your assuming to be wiccan (lets say they were, to be honest I think this is kinda weak). They would largely obviously be quite easy to see through because of how much of a foundation youd share. This is all pretty vague and weak and the only thing I think that maybe ties it together that isnt is that to me you are not actually getting to the root of anything psychological. Your saying wiccans but you actually are talking about all religions and spiritualities, and you wont find them all having the same psychological effects on people. This seems like a very self righteous journey related to something you simply dislike, because your fixating on the magical manifestations around deeper rooted problems or worldviews but not the views themselves. For example one specific example relating to religion id agree with you on is original sin. It creates a mindset of "im not okay", the solution to which is neurotic suppression. Its normal to not pay mind random sexual urges but in my opinion thats not what happens in this case and the person actually is in fear of the sexual urges, causing them to fixate on them more and suppress them harder. And so upon seeing someone able to live functionally without doing this it creates an anger, they must be a sinner because you must be bad and you are not doing the required rituals and pleading to god to make you okay. Because you arent okay by yourself. And what I think would make this tangent im on relating to me thinking you are floating on the surface, is that as long as you can at least imagine how what im saying might be true, you also would know one doesn't have to be christian anymore to think like this. First through integration of christian thought into things like law, and then other fields like philosophy and in the past psychology, addiction treatment to this day even. Now you have this idea prevalent here that humans are naturally evil or selfish, and some even see it as science, when I think it can clearly be traced to religion. This might seem to make your fight against religions valid but that would be ignoring that in spite of original causes the psychological problem exists independent of the beliefs. And like I said, this is a problem id feel is specific to christian religions, there is many religions, maybe even most globally, that do not have this concept and dont produce this mindset and sometimes may even be a defense to the spread of this brain virus. I've gotten really off track but I didnt see this leading anywhere for us when I started typing and I was originally gonna leave it as an agree to disagree so me poorly explaining my half brained recall of why I dont agree is more than I wanted.

I prefer what Erich Fromm says in regards to psychoanalysis and religion, “To some people a return to religion is the answer, not as an act of faith but in order to escape an intolerable doubt; they make this decision not out of devotion but in search of security.” Fromm takes on Freud's idea as religion as neurosis and essentially flips it on it's head and says neurosis are really individual, psychological religions. Anything can be idol worship essentially. I think it's important to realize that everyone at some fundamental biological level is in need of security. Take Maslow's hierarchy for instance and that's how we just generally function within the world. And I think women particularly need more security than men do, obviously because their biological aim is to have children. So they need a generally safe environment. So in that case, I can see witchcraft providing almost an ultimate sense of security through some form of spirituality. It's literally the same reason girls are so into astrology and never stop talking about it, because they believe that the position of the stars create determined outcomes. If an outcome is determinable, that means it's safe to follow through. Plus, they use it to try to understand who people are by asking them their signs, again for security. It's ridiculous logically and empirically, but psychologically and biologically it makes total sense.

>>4325 >Religion Going to have to stop you right there. This isn't a religion, these people think they are witches. There is a difference in worshipping a magical all powerful being and thinking you are one. >>4324 I am not talking about all religions because all followers of religions don't believe they are beings witches and warlocks. They have various tales of such things but they don't they are one. It is like saying that you are a gnome or a dragon which would be pure insanity. There is tales of certain groups being RELATED to mythical beings through out history. Yet again those people's don't attempt to curse people with their eldritch abilities for no reason. Witches are beings from actual folklore who control weather and such, they don't exist. >>4323 >Assumptions Maybe because your neo-pagan and bias so you don't see the obvious cash grab. If you are wiccan this would further the delusion because it is a mental illness. >Most people don't hate them Tell a normal person you are a witch and gauge their reaction. Even people who study the occult will look at you like you lost your marbles probably because chances are you did. >My ancestors held a delusional belief Post Christian one's did probably assuming you came from a line of Wiccans. Before that they held the natural believes of their people, I know because I probably studied your people. >>4322 Grammer error where?

>>4326 Both versions sound completely delusional to me, except the organized version is socially acceptable for some reason. It's still adults with imaginary friends no matter how you frame it.

>>4327 Religion is a composition of beliefs and rituals, whether the object of worship is yourself or not doesn't matter. It may not seem like a substantial one to you, but it's still considered a religion.

>>4327 I studied Wicca for a while, and I don't really see many differences between any of the other religions I also studied. There is a form of universal Karma associated with deeds that hurt others, and the magic part that people meme on is trying to establish an appeal to natural entities and the universe. It is not very unlike animal sacrifices to saturn might have been before Christianity was introduced. and there is another aspect where there are gods and godesses that can be invoked by someones words or deeds. The trivial part of Wicca is what the words and deeds are, and one of the foundational aspects is it only works if you believe it (the same as catholics may say that bread and wine will only help you if you believe it to). Most Wicca I have run into are vegetarian/vegan (as one does not want to upset their goddess-mother, ruler over nature etc.) and many covens practice different variations of their beliefs. Some practice drug use or sexual acts as a matter to honor their deity(s) or they will use aspects of other beliefs to influence and guide their meditations or practices. There is a heavy focus on meditation and drawing upon the senses to feel the world around you (and conversely to influence it through overwhelming will) which to me seems a lot like when judeo-christian faiths say that prayer and reflection will make god help you in a time of need. I didn't really bother to read most of the posts here, as it seems like lains are just soykafslinging.

>>4329 I forgot to add that the probably imo most important aspect of wicca is that one joins a coven consensually (or rather, must be accepted into it). Unlike faiths where someone is indoctrinated into the group from childhood, many covens will screen members before allowing them to join, by assessing if their beliefs are acceptable (i.e. most will reject someone for being an edgelord9000 who just wants to curse the norm!es who called him a f@ggot in gradeschool). Unlike cults, there is sometimes no central leader in a coven, and members will provide spiritual support and company for others. The emphasis on wicca vs. a nature cult is that wicca involves the individual interacting with the world/universe instead of having a cult leader do it for you. Even if there is a leader, it will often only be a role to guide others on their quest to enlightenment by providing insight gained from experience (like better ways to clear ones mind, providing established wicca literature to support decision making in accordance with collective coven rules or tradition).

>>4326 ah I see. all those words for nothing from me! people in the thread kept making this about religion in general or something so I thought you were. carry on then, though I will say this seems like a waste as I feel there is worse religious concepts to crusade against. but to each their own. and id personally reccomend finding out specific things you think are damaging about wiccan....ism (??). Sometimes what we can see the worst in suits us the best, maybe you could bring about some reform or sect that removes and challenges the things about the wiccan mindset you hate.

>>4328 So you missed the part where I was saying that ALL these religions are equally delusional? ...which was the only point I was making.

Wiccans and witches aren't the same thing. I've spoken to wiccans that never practiced witchcraft and witches and warlocks. Also witchcraft isn't what you think it is. Wiccans and to a broader category Neo Pagans are sometimes prone to LARP but that aside witchcraft isn't Harry Potter soykaf it's herbal medicine and either a method of making intentions manifest through one's will and actions or a request to a deity not unlike a prayer. The OP seems to only be describing some women among Dianic Wicca which has a feminist backing so of course it would attract women that want to feel empowered but that is what all religion is anyway where people want to either feel in control or feel the chaotic things in life are not so chaotic and is in control of some paranormal entity or cosmic law they trust in. Wicca is unlikely an old religion as the story Gardner told there is no evidence of him ever meeting the witch he claimed to have met it's a syncretic religion that is likely meant to evoke what Gardner thought were common patterns in pagan religions and he combined this with his interest in nature scouting which is in line with a trend already existing in Britain at the time and he also was into nudism thinking it brought people closer to nature or something. He also watered down some ideas from Alester Crowley to use as a code of ethics he called the Wiccan Reed.

>>4330 Wiccan covens also have a rule against taking on minors too because they don't want to indoctrinate. Though this probably also partially came about as a means of protection from another Satanic Panic of the 80s.

>>4337 Thats a really good point to make, another reason why wiccans are really baste despite not worshiping a trademarked god. I think that OP confuses short term gratification and lifestyle choices to be a mental illness

>>4338 >last sentence Nah, sounds like a simple hateboner to me, the kind usually seen in political discussions.

Everyone is mentally ill nowadays, we're heading for societal collapse whether you want it or not. Buckle up buckaroo cos it's gonna get crazy!

>>4377 fuarrrking this right there. Most people have some form of pathological magical thinking in one way or another. I dont understand why op has beef about wiccans, theyre not that interesting really. There are tons of other cult beliefs that are much more harmful.

>>4378 id argue if you believe we are heading to societal collapse and everyone is mentally ill the real thing to be critical of is parents. everything else i think would pale in comparison in terms of influence.

>>4379 how can you blame em? They're all crazy too

>>4380 not asking anyone to just stop being crazy, just be less crazy enough to where your child is gonna be better off than you are and if you cant do that just dont have a kid until you can. I mean soykaf happens but as far as that as a choice. like atm I have weird empathy issues with other men so until thats worked out I wouldnt have a kid cause theres a 50% chance im gonna turn it into a self loathing mess that feels like his dad never loved him.

>a Freudian origin for such a delusion which echos in the mind of all female wicca. They all suffer from extreme penis envy and use wicca to cope. So what about the the male fraternity version of mystery religions? Do those men suffer from the Freudian fear of women not having a penis so they make or worship phallic symbols to cope ? >source of ideas which they use to build Wicca. It is all repurposed European gods primarily one's of a Celtic faith What are your thoughts on the theory of Wicca being a rebranding of freemasonry or most of it is based on masonic tradition? > at least a complex/complexes or a result of a complex/complexes. OP do you think followers of freemasonry & other mystery religions have mental illness or have complex/complexes? Some of the ones I have been around had serious issues like inferiority complex,narcissism,etc and they are all sociopaths.This could be a caused by the toxic community they live in or the faith they believe in causes it, because as you have mentioned this religion is based on acquiring power or having the belief that they should have power over others and that is morally acceptable (Ayn Rand type of thinking) .

>Further more, I can discern a Freudian origin for such a delusion which echos in the mind of all female wicca. They all suffer from extreme penis envy and use wicca to cope. Witches are an example of a Jungian sorcerer archtype, a female sorcerer archtype. A sorcerer archtype is a symbol of power they don't have, power witch women as a sex lacks. That is why it is based around female power to make them believe females have power over man or at least equal to them. Well Wicca was invented and initially primarily practised by men much like most other occult groups and what is generally called Wicca was basically invented by Gerald Gardener with the system itself basically being a hogpodge of different teachings gardner had learnt by being a Rosicrucian, Becoming obsessed with the works of Aleister crowley and briefing attempting to become a freemason. It was only really in modern era and the age of the internet that it became some insane like Anti-Male female empowerment cult soykaf (Which i admit despite me knowing very little about the inner workings of wicca does seem to be what most of these groups are). >The so called religion is a front for this as it isn't new religion what so ever. I don't just mean wicca being 100 years old, I mean the source of ideas which they use to build wicca. It is all repurposed European gods primarily one's of a Celtic faith, are reused such as Morrigan repurposed as the mother goddess and Cernuous as the green man. This is mystery in till you realize this is a culture bound disorder in western countries. The original religion of the west for a few thousand years were these kinds of religion and thus an ancestral religion of the followers of wicca. To repurpose it to fit with their psychopathology is only natural. Plenty of religions have repurposed gods or changed the exact aspect or symbology of gods to fit their religious system. I dont really think that asides from the fact that in Wicca it is a conscious and intentional choice it is necessarily a sign of any sort of pathology > It is also considered pagan to their followers which is frowned upon by Christianity. Christianity is a religion of God, YhWh, Jehovah and christ, a strong male presence. Christianity represents a strong male authority, a father, not a mother but someone who is male who disciplines the daughter. So as this being a strong father figure the wiccan with penis envy would naturally be apposed to it. Ehh. Most religions and occult movements have a focus on a Male and a female deity purely because expansive and constricting / limiting forces are usually best symbolised in erotic terms between the two deities. Wicca does have a Male god and im pretty sure that ideally it is intended to be a "dyad" between the two similar as to how Crowley tried to simplify his teachings by breaking down all concepts into simply a Dyad between two gods.

mental illness doesn't exist. its a lie, mental illness is being born with a chemical imbalance in your brain. true mental illness is rarely seen. other "mental illnesses"are made up trash invented so they can drug you, or they diagnose you with an illness you dont have. what youre describing is not "mental illness." youre simply taking an idea that you dislike, and that contridicts your own values and calling it mentally ill. you could say the exact same thing about any religion.

>>4426 I disagree but I also cant in a way disagree with you for thinking that because you are a hundred percent right about OP and it certainly gives medication and psychology a fuarrrking terrible name. I do agree however in a sense that in a society like ours you cant ever be sure if somethings a mental illness or just a detriment to "productivity". I also agree that medicating things like bipolar disorder isnt a great solution, but maybe disagree in that I think its a needed bandaid solution. There is probably ways most people with "chemical imbalances" could do great things and live good lives if there were avenues for it. However because there isnt and there wont be just because you dont take meds it may be better that someone whos mental state can not be channeled and directed anywhere in their current society take medication for now if the alternative is not being able to provide for themselves and/or potentially killing themselves. Better to live another day and try to figure out how you can utilize your atypical mental state for your benefit than to die on a hill you can always die on later.

i realized that many other lainons have made most of the same points i was going to, so i've decided against repeating most of them with my post. but i'd still like to make the observation that OP's argument is solely made against, and targeted towards, wiccan women, and it's a very sad state of affairs that men continue to believe in rotting freudian pseudo-psychology and label women seeking power and any contradiction to patriarchy as 'mentally ill.'

>>4337 as a kid I was exposed to wiccanism and other soft neo paganism repeatedly, asked to participate in rituals, encouraged to engage in other practices. maybe some have such a rule but its plainly not quite that simple. Frankly I think a religion so against propagation that one even must refrain from indoctrination of ones own children is bizzare, a certain degree of evangelizm, if that is evangelism, is practically obligatory. >>7595 this is true but the behaviors probably still ought to be suppressed or controlled in any case. Lack of modern religion creates some demand for other spiritual outlets, which generally lack lack the refinement of modern Church practice.