Maladaptive Daydreaming

Have any lainons ever heard of Maladaptive daydreaming? If you haven't a good introduction is https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/maladaptive-daydreaming but the quick rundown is when that people who have the trait to experience really immersive daydreams start using said trait as a coping mechanism or like an addictive drug. Those suffering from it will put off daily obligations like work or studying or relationships in favour of their daydream world, knowing full well its not real. Often the content of the daydreams are long and detailed story arcs with lore and represent what the daydreamer feels they miss in life or might be related to some trauma they experienced. If one daydreams of having a loving family they may not have received enough attention as a child (but the content of the daydreams doesn't matter as much how the daydreams interfere with everyday life). I wonder if anyone here has this disorder? Have you ever tried (or even succeeded) to mitigate its negative impacts or does this post make you realise you might have this disorder?

It's possible I suffered from this disorder as described previously. However, due to treatment for an unrelated malady, it seemed that I was able to both snap out of it, and learn how to have agency over it. When the treatment ended, my day dreaming returned as strong as ever - however it was no longer what I would call maladaptive, since I can easily focus away from it if I so choose. Given this change occured, it seems to me that it might not be an independent illness in my case, but more strictly comorbid. It all crept up on me so slowly and subtly, I wouldn't be able to give an accurate picture of what it was like for me "before" it was too much. I've trapcoded in case anyone has questions they wish to ask. Please don't ask overly revealing questions, since I won't answer them.

>>3906 Could you give any details about your treatment?

This is a gift not a disorder. How you use it is what counts. What will you wake up to?

>>3908 Immersive daydreaming is a gift, Maladaptive daydreaming is a disorder

>>3907 I thought about your question, and I realized that my situation is likely generic enough it wouldn't be a horrible doxxing event for me to disclose the following. I will, however, say that if you recognize my story or suspect you know who I am or anything --- please please please don't be a fuarrrking asshole and keep it to yourself. I'm only offering this information for two reasons: (1) it is directly relevant to the topic and (2) it might help somebody out there who has problems come to grips that mental health medicine isn't scary or evil. Anyway... Psychotic disorder, treated using anti-psychotics for a few years. The rundown of the illness is basically schizophrenia lite. Lots of positive symptoms like delusional thinking, paranoia, aggression, extreme anxiety, obsessive compulsive, "thought broadcast" (thinking others can literally hear what you're thinking), persecution complex, intrusive thoughts (this is important later). Negative symptoms like blunted affect, impaired judgement, poverty of speech, etc. Cognitive symptoms like impaired cause/effect processing, impaired interpretation of communication/language, "receding into the mind" (there's likely a proper term for this, but it eludes me at the moment). Treatment basically erased all symptoms within a week. Treatment needed to persist for quite a long time. Occasionally I would forget or choose to not take my dose and would begin to accumulate impairment very quickly, so would quickly return (the feelings I got were simply not the kind where you say "ya, I'm all better" and end up getting sick again because you've lied to yourself). I was on the medication for... 3 or 4 years? I don't care enough to check, but I know it was long enough. To be honest, if it wasn't for the fact the drugs helped so much with the very unpleasant symptoms, I would never fuarrrking take them because their side effects were nothing short of awful. I never had full blown hallucinations, but did have regular sensory disturbances (I am very confident of this because, being hypervigilant as a normal situation, I would always investigate the apparent source/cause. While I realize it might've been a worse prognosis, I wish I had the full meal deal. I stopped taking the drugs when I noticed that they were no longer having any notable positive effect (no change when I forgot to take them). Reassured, I kept a full prescription and experimented with not taking them for a month, then two. Now I'm up to about a year and a half symptom free. Interestingly, I discovered that the medication had caused some subtle paradoxical effects such as causing anxiety in some situations, as well as some blunting of my emotional palette (more on that below). So, now for the apparent "comorbid" stuff. First, the disease and the drugs both severely blunted my emotional palette. Very little in the way of highs and lows, a very dull bland grey most of the time. It would be punctuated with extreme negatives primarily. There was a lot of suicidal ideation, nearly constant (I, however, for better or worse, am both a coward and able to talk myself out of self-destruction). After being off the drugs and symptom free for about a month, I actually cried during a particularly sad scene in a favorite movie. I hadn't experienced that in an extremely long time, and it made me uncomfortable. However, I'm also much much happier overall. I have a general state of depression that is my general living situation, but it is actually punctuated with much needed joy that helps me keep going. (No, I'm not interested in getting the depression treated with drugs since it isn't impairing me in any way). I am and have always tended to be obsessive and highly focused, but I think that's just my personality. No obvious change during disease/treatment/post. Additionally, I think it's a safe assessment to say I was very much a schizoid personality type. Being sick, and then medicated, this felt to be an acceptable state of affairs. Following discontinuation, I began experiencing what I can only describe as loneliness (although, as it is still a very unfamiliar sensation, you might wish to question the legitimacy of that assessment). Unfortunately, as I am underdeveloped in the socializing department, and our present covid situation, I have to say this is an ongoing issue that I have been as yet unable to resolve (I've been trying to integrate with online communities, slowly, but it is rather difficult to do even that. Yes, when I said schizoid, I mean I avoided ALL communication and relationships). I don't think it would be wise to return to treatment simply to erase that feeling, since it isn't impairing me. That's some overall picture of the disease and treatment. If you recognize my story, since I've been pretty open about it since I think people deserve to hear honest truths about medical treatments, especially for mental illness --- ffs don't dox me. Unlikely, but, again, just don't be a fuarrrking asshole. Ok, so let's talk about Maladaptive Daydreaming. I've always been rather "spaced out" and in my head for as long as I can recall. My entire life basically. I spent a lot of time alone, just day dreaming. I suspect it came to control me rather than vice versa mostly due to the extreme amount of intrusive thoughts I began experiencing due to the psychosis. I like to believe I'm a reasonably compassionate and accepting person, but I would get a lot of very nasty unpleasant thoughts about everything around me. Part of that was drifting off into my head and being forced to live through what can only be described as "day-mares". A coping device I developed was reciting positive mantras, and playing positive upbeat music to literally drown it out. As the disease progressed, it became increasingly difficult to avoid drifting off, and began to severely impair my ability to function. I would lose track of conversations mid-sentence, drift off when I was required to focus, and find myself staying awake for days on end drifting through stories (pleasant and unpleasant, but mostly unpleasant). Additionally, I generally have a degree of agency over my dreams (when awake; specifically over my own actions and the overall scenario, but often I left the rest to whatever is in my head that drives the storytelling), but increasingly I would be helpless to the subject matter that I encountered. I would perhaps willfully day dream a romantic fantasy about a nice person I had encountered and liked, but it would quickly devolve into a horrifying situation where something terrible would happen to me as a direct result of my drempt actions (fortunately, nothing violent to the target of my fantasy, but often something very unpleasant for me; as an aside, if you are experiencing uncontrollable fantasies about harming other people, seek help immediately, that's a very dangerous sign in my opinion). Eventually, I began to resent any sort of day dream since it was so consistently negative for me. This was one of the key things that told me I needed to seek out help (other than the completely dysfunctional life I had begun living), since it had always been a way for me to find comfort, freedom, and enjoyment in stories of my own invention during times of boredom or general relaxation. (continued next...)

(continued from >>3910 ) I need to emphasize a few facts why, for me, this is a massively important part of my personal experience, and why it is so important that I get to have it. When I day dream, I can close my eyes and imagine any scenario, place, person, etc. in perfectly realistic crisp detail. Any story I want to play with can take place, be rewound, played back, skipped ahead, etc. with great ease. Additionally, I am blessed (blessed? maybe) with such a strong inner sense of vision that I can open my eyes and still see the images my mind plays back. It's like projecting an image into reality if you can imagine that. Not the same fidelity or quality, and with some very obvious defects and vaugeness, but it is something that I rather relish. So, as you can imagine, this is somewhat integral to my experience of reality. It's also a very useful tool. I can spend a rather small amount of time thinking over scenarios about things like social interactions (something, you'll recall, I am not proficient at) in order to determine a best course of action based on how I think people will react to specific approaches I can take. As such, it is adaptive to my specific circumstances. However, when you cannot escape from it, to the point of even becoming somewhat catatonic, it becomes what I believe matches the description of Maladaptive Daydreaming (I spent some time earlier looking more extensively into it, and it does seem very fitting). Combined with my psychotic situation, it wasn't only hard to escape from, it could be downright terrifying. I would literally snap out of it in a cold sweat, pounding heart, severely agitated and anxious state of mind. It didn't matter if I was at work, or at home, or out with acquaintances, or family. Pure fuarrrking havoc. When I began treatment, the day dreaming largely receded over the course of the first month into a memory. It was almost entirely eliminated. However, it was subtle and not sudden, so it was easy to not notice this happening. The time I was medicated were the beginning of a very productive and pleasant part of my life, and I cannot say I really "missed" it, since I didn't realize it was gone. Or, perhaps, I felt the positives were far outweighing the negatives? Or, more specifically, I had become so fearful and jaded by what I experienced in my day dreams, that I even resented them. It's hard to say, since I renewed myself in becoming occupied in all waking hours with being busy and rebuilding my broken life, giving myself very little time to reflect and contemplate my experience beyond "I feel pretty good today". When I discontinued treatment for good, there was a gradual but at the same time rather abrupt return of my mental state to my pre-diseased norm. When my mind idled, I would generally slip into a dream. When I opened my eyes, images would persist. Dreams were on-demand, and easily dismissed. They were what I wanted to think about, or at least based on a favorable interpretation of my state of mind. Their utility quickly returned, and my enjoyment of them returned. This was particularly important, since I had burned myself out pretty bad with my during-treatment overcompensating. I quickly recovered from that minor road bump, and became more balanced. These days, I am still highly productive and functional, without symptoms of any disease (except a general melancholy, but again it isn't very much a problem, possibly even just part of my normal experience). When I am idle, I let myself drift off. But, the second I need to return to my task or have a desire to change my context, I quickly snap out of it. There's no intrusions, no upsets, no pounding heart or sweat. I like to lounge in bed in the morning after waking up, or before going to sleep and let my mind play through various stimuli or ideas, and it gives me a lot of comfort. So ya, I hope this will help explain a lot about at least one experience of this type of existence and how it differs from "merely" daydreaming. >>3908 It's all context. As >>3909 says, there is most definitely a difference. The problem is, it's fuzzy and not easily discerned if you never have experienced them both and can see the contrast. Hopefully my post above will shed some light onto this difference. >>3909 I hope it's a gift, because maladaptive daydreaming was definitely very much a disorder.

>>3905 I diagnosed myself with it originally but now that I read about it, if the daydreams are supposed to be "immersive", I don't think this is me. While I do daydream almost constantly, my daydreams aren't rich or detailed, they're just simple scenarios where I live out simple fantasies of being loved, of being praised, of being glorified, etc. There have definitely been times in my life where I've taken serious attempts to cut down on the daydreams because I legitimately lose a lot of time to them that could have been spent on some kind of hobby. There have absolutely been days in the past where I literally just daydreamed half the day or even the entire day away. Like I say, if detail is a defining aspect of this disorder, I don't have it, I'm just you're regular covert narcissist that tends to over-daydream but otherwise, yeah, I would say that I do have this. I think the most frequent daydream is the one where I explain something to someone as if I were an expert on the topic despite the fact that I only just learnt it mere moments ago. My tool for cutting down on this disorder has been mindfulness and a deliberate rejection of hedonism. Before I became TradCath, I was originally quite drawn to the works of Gurdjieff because his teachings sounded like the remedy to my problem. In fact, it's the solution to my problem built up into a religion where one can even construct, then save, their soul by firmly adhering to "self-remembering" as its described. I do find myself returning to the "self-remembering" practises, giving up because it's too hard and unpleasurable, returning to it again because I realise (after recently observing that I wasted a whole day again due to not controlling myself) I'll never be able to build a good life for myself without these basic skills, etc. While I never took the idea that I had ADHD seriously, believing myself to simply be weak instead (the natural result of an undisciplined life), there was one particular symptom of ADHD called "Rejection Sensitivity" which I realised explained an experience I had. It makes sense to cringe when one remembers something cringeworthy, but to cringe, to the point of severe physical pain such that one cannot resume their studies when one remembers memories that were only previously a little bit painful? And then to repeatedly, involountarily remember such memories? This is absolutely not a mere case of being weak due to an undisciplined life. Then, fortunately, another Lainon mentioned that the symptoms of ADHD can actually be caused by trauma. And this makes much more sense. I'm sad to say this but my whole life, I've had this unusual fear of tall, narrow trees and I never knew why I had this fear but with the trauma theory, it's possible that tall trees scare me because they resemble a phallus. Regarding the trauma theory, there's ADHD and there's also maladaptive daydreaming to reinforce it all so it seems I am suffering from trauma. If I am traumatised, I look forward to getting this fixed because it's possible I am currently a mere shadow of my former self. I noticed it ages ago that when I try to relax and open my mind and take in all the layers of the music I'm listening to that I seem to come to some kind of wall. It's like, there's plenty of room in my mind but there's this wall about mid-way in that's basically halved the effective size of my mind and I have to work within this confined space. Ever since I started self-remembering, I noticed that I seem to have a big brain but something forces my mind into a smaller state so I can't take full advantage of all the mental resources available to me. So yeah, it seems, due to trauma, I may also a maladaptive-daydreamer. I don't recommend Gurdjieff though, in fact, I don't even recommend mindfulness meditation as I believe that can open one up to demonic influences but nonetheless, I do recommend trying to be aware of what you're doing, whilst you're doing it. Do you pay attention to what you're doing when you're brushing your teeth in the morning?

>>3913 >Then, fortunately, another Lainon mentioned that the symptoms of ADHD can actually be caused by trauma. And this makes much more sense. I'm sad to say this but my whole life, I've had this unusual fear of tall, narrow trees and I never knew why I had this fear but with the trauma theory, it's possible that tall trees scare me because they resemble a phallus. This story took a decidedly dark turn. >if the daydreams are supposed to be "immersive", I don't think this is me. >So yeah, it seems, due to trauma, I may also a maladaptive-daydreamer. Since it isn't in the DSM, it's hard to tell what the specific diagnostic criteria are. However, as a general rule, diagnostics of psychiatric conditions are based on an "n of m" symptom checklist. You need not apply to all of them to be considered as to falling under the umbrella. Overall, interesting.

>>3913 >If the daydreams are supposed to be immersive I don't think this is me If you're getting so absorbed into your daydreams that you waste half a day that you would've rather devoted to a hobby then it definitely fits the 'maladaptive' part of things, regardless of how immersive the experience >Due to trauma Yeah there's some research that shows that Maladaptive daydreaming develops as a coping mechanism for trauma that turns into a time-wasting addiction. >>3916 Unfortunately MD remains only a proposed disorder and isn't in the DSM but there is a proposed criteria for diagnosis. I probably should've put this in the OP but forgot but it can be found here: https://daydreamresearch.wixsite.com/md-research/measures

>>3913 >they're just simple scenarios where I live out simple fantasies of being loved, of being praised, of being glorified, etc. >I'm just you're regular covert narcissist that tends to over-daydream but otherwise, I suspect that you might be condemning yourself for a relatively common type of fantasy people indulge in. Everyone wants to be recognized for whatever it is they identify with, and want to build themselves up. >https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Daydreaming >Daydreaming was long held in disrepute in society and was associated with laziness. In the late 1800s, Sigmund Freud argued that some daydreams with grandiose fantasies are self-gratifying attempts at "wish fulfillment". Combined with your observations about possible trauma (for which, based on your description, I am very sorry to hear) would suggest that you are actively trying to combat and/or suppress traumatic memories by creating a more fulfilling reality. So, overall, I would avoid condemning yourself for dreaming unrealistic things. >It makes sense to cringe when one remembers something cringeworthy, but to cringe, to the point of severe physical pain such that one cannot resume their studies when one remembers memories that were only previously a little bit painful? And then to repeatedly, involountarily remember such memories? This is absolutely not a mere case of being weak due to an undisciplined life. This sounds an awful lot like what >>3910 wrote, specifically "intrusive thoughts", which I looked up and indicates (according to my layman's understanding) a constant and consistent insertion of undesirable thoughts into your consciousness. Constant exposure to difficult memories without appropriate desire and preparation on your part could have generally detrimental effects on your mental hygiene. That's actually a characteristic of PTSD, which goes along with much of your relation of potential causes. >Regarding the trauma theory, there's ADHD and there's also maladaptive daydreaming to reinforce it all so it seems I am suffering from trauma. If I am traumatised, I look forward to getting this fixed because it's possible I am currently a mere shadow of my former self. Also look into PTSD. It sounds like you have genuine concern about your well-being, which is an important first step. Try to get access to a therapist or something who can objectively assess your situation and help you develop more constructive coping mechanisms and begin properly dealing with any trauma you have experienced.

>>3917 >Unfortunately MD remains only a proposed disorder and isn't in the DSM but there is a proposed criteria for diagnosis. I probably should've put this in the OP but forgot but it can be found here: https://daydreamresearch.wixsite.com/md-research/measures I wrote >>3910 >>3911 . I just went through the checklist and thankfully scored well below the "probable" score. However, in hindsight, I think it would be safe to say I previously scored well above. That's a really handy assessment, thanks for providing it.

>>3919 oops sorry. trap'd

>>3918 >Try to get access to a therapist or something who can objectively assess your situation and help you develop more constructive coping mechanisms and begin properly dealing with any trauma you have experienced. I'm already seeing a therapist because of the intrusive thoughts I began to experience. I originally did believe some kind of demon was talking to me but I recognise it now as symptoms of my psychosis. I've told my psychologist about the ADHD/Trauma theory recently actually and he's arranging to have me have some kind of trauma therapy. I also stumbled upon a book on YouTube called "Moving Beyond Trauma" by Ilene Smith which should be good. I hope to buy it when I have the funds.

>>3917 Just thought I'd say that I'm the guy with ADHD/Trauma and a fear of trees and I scored 66.875 so I probably have MD. >>3910 I just wanted to say that I was always fascinated by Schizoid PD so this thread was kind of cool in that it got a schizoid to post in it. I remember reading some kind of bogus-theory that Schizoids are created when the mother desires to abort her own child. When the mother has this desire, the child detects that "the environment" desires its destruction and this is where the Schizoid takes its form as someone who desires to keep distant from everyone and is basically living its life locked into a constant state of fight or flight. The Schizoid's subconscious has basically primed it to be ready for anything. So in a war-torn country, the Schizoid is perfectly adapted, always cool, calm and rational (or at least outwardly so). Just totally unphased in the most dramatic situations. I think that's kind of cool. I think as a teenager, I would often daydream about being externally apathetic but then still flawlessly executing the most cool things (Drive with Ryan Gosling somewhat fueled this as well). Admittedly, I haven't looked around in places where Schizoids socialise for a while now but nonetheless, the interest still isn't dead.

>>3923 >I remember reading some kind of bogus-theory that Schizoids are created when the mother desires to abort her own child. Beware pseudo science woo woo. I believe it is much more simple and has a much more direct cause/effect relationship in my particular case: I'm a weird person (let's not fuarrrking mince words), and always have been. This caused people to be easily put off and alienated from me, leading to isolation. I adapted to that situation. >so this thread was kind of cool in that it got a schizoid to post in it Trying to "recover", or at least develop. >I think as a teenager, I would often daydream about being externally apathetic but then still flawlessly executing the most cool things I don't know about the apathy thing, I suspect that's just a generic teenage thing. I've always been very inwardly and outwardly colorful and flamboyant with little or no concern to the perceptions of others. >Admittedly, I haven't looked around in places where Schizoids socialise for a while now but nonetheless, the interest still isn't dead. I don't know where you'd look for such people. I just come here because it's comfy, anonymous, reasonably free of bigotry that is associated with chans, and people talk about technology and stuff that I enjoy. I marginally participate, sometimes just soykafpost a little, but mostly read. And then I get compelled sometimes (passion? arrogance? who knows) to post a wall of text about something I have a strong interest in for whatever reason.

.thinkAboutit { might-be: a; cool: idea; }

>>3923 Damn that was a good movie, generally when I'd see movies with those sorts of characters I'd remember how the sort of "moral" is how even schizoid-esque people could be happy and do cool stuff (and not just in a action way, as in a fulfilled-life sort of way). That's probably a bad thing to take away from it though, and in the movie too he's only truly happy for a brief period of time. The rest of it is reminiscence of a happiness before things go to soykaf