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Has anyone been able to influence the "language" of their dream through pure effort and exposure? Ive been thinking lately about how the deaf are cited as having language present in their dreams through literal sign language. This got me thinking if could be possible to only (or partially) dream in terms of art, music, or even math. Dreams are nonsensical so nonsensical pasterns are made, but their may still be some value in that worth experimenting in. Ignoring the fact that the emotions and feelings are very difficult to express in the 3 fields above, i still have a theory on how to attempt this. Pure exposure and a constant focus on new and different problems and works. I would like to attempt this on math some time over the summer. putting the active and passive parts of the brain to focus entirely on survival and problem solving. This seems like a great way to get burned out on a subject and may require many days to rewire the brain in this way. Does this sound interesting and does anyone have any experience with this and or material on it they would like to share? The closet ive been to this is one dream i recall being for the most part Spanish. http://signlanguageco.com/dreams-of-the-deaf/

I have rewired myself this way, it seems the subconscious runs off symbollism, and there is yet another 'higher mind' above this which derives from the 'sacred' geometrical patterns, and physical constants that define who you are, symbols derive from patterns, therefore, the map to the subconscious is the patterns themselves, who you are on the most fundamental level, is what drives everything else, the conscious and subconscious mind both produce 'images', however the 'overmind' i speak of rather dictates the images that form and their resonancy. Hope this makes some sense to you. Good luck.

>>2099 That would also be interesting for people learning a second language (or a third one and so on). I imagine having dreams in them could reinforce what you are learning. I suppose it would be possible to use an external trigger, similar to the music they used in the Inception movie, in order to trick your mind into going a certain way in the dream. I remember cases in my dreams when my alarm was going but instead of waking up, the sound could be heard in the dream as part of the scenery, so it seems it would be possible to purposefully induce some state, but I am not sure how far you could control it.

>>2099 One theory of dreams is that they are your brain trying to interpret random electrical stimuli by grabbing random stuff from your memory and overlaying it. So the logic would follow that if you haven't got any strong memory of something, it's unlikely to occur in your dream. Anecdotally, i've had dreams after doing repetitive tasks before where I was doing that same thing, so your idea of immersing yourself in something is sound. However, you'll probably find yourself dreaming about doing mathematics, or a dream about listening to music, fairly mundane stuff. To actually dream in the format of mathematics or art I think you'd have to start thinking exclusively in those terms first. And i'm no expert but thinking purely in math is the kind of stuff that made Tesla go mad. >>2108 >physical constants that define who you are >who you are on the most fundamental level So, are these geometrical patterns in flux then? Because somebody's personhood and sense of self is rarely static. Can't really say I see what you're driving at.

Dreams are not always present on the audiovisual sensory space. About less than 6 months ago I had a textual dream, I mean literally textual, like if I was reading through my dream, whithout a narrator or any voice but that of my usual low voice reading. It did not have much sense and used to repeat words like some dadaistic text. Most importantly and hopefully helpful is that it occurred on a lapse of 4 days where I was dreaming while seeing my surroundings and my internal voice going soliloquy. Other note is that I was sleeping half at day and half at night, reading inbetween. I had partially felt this while studying math, as in doing random calculations, I do not think you could solve a particular problem and do consider this as what >>2122 in respect of doing something so many times that you dream it, maybe if I was to do some heavy math reasoning I would and up as that of my first experience. It is interesting to do, but not expect to receive answers from your dreams, the mind just likes to roam a ton. >>2108 Can relate to seeing patterns when I put pressure against my eyes closed, but think of it more as a screensaver the brain likes to put when there is no input signal, my most usual pattern looks like your image related, more cloudy though and sometimes with lightings.

>>2123 Text is just visual symbols. So still a visual dream.

>>2099 I don't know if I really understood what you are trying to experiment with, but if you want to experiment with problem solving and/or revising knowledge inside dreams, I don't think this is a good idea. I had some dreams related to this and almost every time I got something wrong. A specific dream I remember having was me talking about everything I knew about physics to my history teacher (that specific dream was in Italian, although my main language is Portuguese) and when I tried to explain why it is possible to create a Kugelblitz to him I got almost everything about it wrong, and only realised it after I woke up. Also, sorry for my soykafty English.

>the emotions and feelings are very difficult to express in [Art, Mathematics] The emotions and feelings are just about the only things you can express in art, music, mathematics, and mathematics, especially when aided by the media familiar to the creative arts, is the only place where you can so purely express the emotions and feelings. I've been, and continue to be, an exponent of the hypothesis that dreams are the effect on consciousness of the brain reorganizing itself, the reason they are so easily forgotten is that they are not inherently meaningsome, but as we add our (false, as they always are) interpretations to dreams, as we record our dreams in a dream journal, as we discuss our dreams with others, as we, however, spend our 'awake' mental resources, our mind adjusts to the behaviour which would only be explainable as either an unreasoned act, which we tend to reject, or as though there is a reason, for which our mind will find some reason, and, even if that reason is false, our mind, thinking the reason is true, starts to care more about that which we seem to have a reason to care about. This is why the senselessly violent don't dream, and why the intelligent violent, to ensure mental vivor, create such elaborate violence, if not satisfied by art or mathematics. Each life is a reflects the past of that life.

>>2122 >So, are these geometrical patterns in flux then? Because somebody's personhood and sense of self is rarely static. The foundations and fundamentals of my personality are entirely static, but they're not geometrical, in the popular conception of geometrical. >>2123 >doing random calculations If you want Mathematical dreams, you'll need to master all the basic concepts so that you can think about them in your sleep (figuratively). >pressure against my eyes closed, but think of it more as a screensaver the brain likes to put when there is no input signal The patterns are from the unusual (mis-) firing of the optical nerves caused by the pressure. >>2124 >Text is just visual symbols Text is a series of expressions. Expression is a series of symbols. Symbol is anything that can stand for something else. Syntax is that which determines which symbols, expressions, texts, are part of the language. Semantics is that which corresponds symbols, expressions, texts, with whatever (usually, other) things. Symbols don't have to be visual. If you're going to pontificate, at least know the definitions of what you pontificate about. >>2130 >when I tried to explain why it is possible to create a Kugelblitz to him I got almost everything about it wrong, and only realised it after I woke up. Just because you got it wrong in your dream doesn't mean that that wasn't beneficial. I get plenty wrong in my dreams, but I always know what was wrong, and, also, what was right. I think this is mainly because I don't think in terms of arbitrary labels, but I maintain fairly compositional languages, so that when I talk about something, I don't talk about an X, but about a thing witht the properties P,Q,R,S,T,, where the properties are described in sufficient detail that I understand them in my dream. One thing I have noticed is that, In my dream, my languages are different from the languages I use with I am in this intert reality, and that some translation is necessary, but I've mainly learned how to do the translation. My thoughts in my dreams are more formal, while my thoughts in this inert reality are rigourously compositional, except in special cases, determined on a case-by-case -basis.

>>2108 i believe the "overmind" you're referring to is the brain stem

>>2154 Missed the point. Whether you dream of a bird or the word bird - both are visual representations of the same concept. A nonvisual representation would be hearing chirping or the feeling of touching feathers.

>>2123 those patterns are the foundation of all patterns, the fact that any visual information is comprehensible to you is a result of that. the overmind is real, and one day it will again claim control of the collective unconscious. humanity's destiny is to be controlled by the ancient reptilian brainstem overlords. you have been warned

>>2164 >Whether you dream of a bird or the word bird - both are visual representations of the same concept False. Neither "bird" nor bird is a visual thing, thus cannot be a visual representation. "bird" is merely text, as >>2154 described, and bird is a concept, with various characteristics. You can probably find out what characteristics they have by serarching, and reading, the available collections of data. There are many problems with your response, the main problem is intellectual laziness. Support your claim. Explain your position. Take time to completely, accurately, elegantly, describe what you say (or write) so that people can easily understand what you want them to understand. Before that, probably, take time to complete and refine your meaning so that people don't have to gather data from many sources just to know your whole point. Maybe >>2154 missed the point, but what is, then, the point? Perhaps Lainchan needs to have some description of a default style, with an explanation of the purpose of each part of the style, for various sorts of discussions, to which moderators can compare a post to see if it's at least as good, in it's various aspects, as if it were in that default style, so that posters can know that they can post in an explicitly approved style which meets some minimum standard of useful communication (where applicable).

>>2194 While your criticism is valid the suggestion for moderation is truly dangerous. Some ideas are hard to be defined and are not easily communicated. These ideas some times happen to be of utmost importance as Wittegstein once noted. Moderation would kill these ideas just for the sake of some kind of orthological selection of worthy and unworthy ideas. However the mind is not all there is, and as you seem to have comprehended words are always grid upon a reality that is defined by the grid. So sometimes the mind that pushes the borders of logic finds itself using abstract concepts that don't necessarily map to the meaning of word or come from logical deductions.

Does thelepathy count??

I remember a time when I was a teen where I spent the entire day playing Minish Cap on an emulator and then had a very vivid dream that I perceived in pixelated 2D where I was a floating observer. I saw what appeared to be the roof of my house and followed a bunny into the games town center where it exploded. And then it was followed by different levels being unburied from the ground, raising upwards and the Link character jumping down continuously to avoid being raised too high in the sky. Sometimes the entire dream changed entirely into other screens, all in pixel 2D graphics. I suspect it happens when you intensely surround yourself with something and focus all of your mind to it for a full day.

>>2165 > the overmind is real, and one day it will again claim control of the collective unconscious. humanity's destiny is to be controlled by the ancient reptilian brainstem overlords. you have been warned I so fuarrrking hate it when people say something (semi) meaningful in their first statement and then continue it with an absolute snake oil dogshit in the next. I'm not faulting you here, we're all similarly manipulative because it's in our human nature.

well you could say a dream in itself is art, and the sounds you hear are music, and anything that makes any bit of sense in it is dictated by some degree of math. basically yeah language is a lot less concrete than a lot of people think and you don't have to try very hard to dream in a different "language" you just have to let yourself realize when you already do. different perspectives on the same thing, you could say it's like static, or just different perspectives on the same hyperdimensional object. the point is they exist.

I've had recurring experiences where I start reciting mantras in sanskrit during a dream, or I hear them. I'm kind of worried that I'm also sleep talking when this happens. Usually what triggers it is an uncomfortable scenario that causes fear. Something like the cliched lightswitches not working in a dream or seeing a spider would set it off, and then I would start reciting a mantra. I have listened to different buddhist mantra recordings for many hours while taking hallucinogens and that could be a part of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z43G_Eoke1A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0R74D0yr5I

I'm >>2130 Now for a matter of fact I can say you can study through your dreams. Long story short: tomorrow I have a history test and I am terrible at memorizing names. Before sleeping I put all important country names associated with things like peace treaties as sequences of pairs of letters. I had studied next to nothing those names to remember them. However, I studied in my dreams and now for some reason I can recall at least half of the country's names and their associated roles in world war 1, peace treaties or ethnical groups.

>>2099 I think I've influenced mine to take on an increasingly mythological language

>>2109 >I suppose it would be possible to use an external trigger, similar to the music they used in the Inception movie, in order to trick your mind into going a certain way in the dream. I might look into this. I'm one of those people that is able to read in his dreams and so far I successfully read letters and phrases in English, German and Russian. From what I could gather your brain starts to automatically create situations in dreams where you deal with those languages if you repeatedly study them every day. Simply knowing the language won't really do it, you need continuous exposure to them. Maybe having a trigger could help me read more consistently in dreams. >>2099 I've always wondered if it would be possible to work on math problems in dreams, as math in itself doesn't really require external input like reading books.

English is my second language, like 30% of my dreams happen in english, though idk if that answers your questions, lain

>>2099 English is my first language and Spanish is my second. Most of my dreams are in English on a rare occasion there will be Spanish or some other language present (like seeing Chinese people or something). This is an interesting question, we aught to get the opinions of other lainons who speak different languages. Maybe the frequency with which one uses a certain language or is exposed to it could also have an influence.

the theories people itt have put forth regarding using repetition during waking life absolutely work, and I've got a particularly not fun or productive example. there was a period of nearly a month at a job I once worked where I dealt with one issue for my entire 10-hour shift every single saturday. a component my company's clients used received a soykaf software update that would make it freeze up when it was used too many times in a row which happened every saturday, and they'd have to call in to have us reboot the things remotely. they were miserable, I was miserable, and it was the same thing over and over. no novelty, no challenge other than the customer service, just mindless drone work. during this period I'd dream I was working, and when my girlfriend would try to wake me up she had to convince me I wasn't already at work and to stop talking to her like she was a client. some mornings I wasn't convinced until I rolled over and realized I was touching a pillow and not a keyboard. tl;dr repetition absolutely works, hopefully it can be used to more productive ends than what happened to me