Konaka Chiaki

What are lain's thoughts on the man that wrote SeL? A lot of netizens seem to be quite angry with him right now, but what's the verdict on /vis/?

>>8387 I'm out of the loop. What happened? Is pic related? If so, he's not wrong, so what gives?

>>8388 >I'm out of the loop. What happened? Image related is from the recent デジフェス DT audio drama. The fansubbing group that distributed it plastered a big warning in the intro that in turn caused a large internet debate, starring the Digimon fanbase, Lain fans calling Konaka a "talentless hack", and the Japanese attendees that enjoyed seeing the audio drama live.

>It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled

>>8392 Lain was written on what we knew about the internet during the 90s. A lot of the stuff it predicted, tons of other people also thought at the time. But what we didn't expect (outside of cyberpunk media written before "internet" was a household term) was that it'd become a monopolistic hellhole run by corporations and their buddies in the government, who are more than happy to censor people if they pose a threat to the system. We thought it'd always remain free and open. Konaka's only mistake was using the wrong shibboleths. Had he spoken from an anti-corporate perspective and not mentioned terms like "cancel culture", the same people crying about him right now would be showering him with praise.

Oh, he hurt the political correct feelings so sad. People are such crybabies nowadays. They just want to shut up whoever the don't agree with and so they fight for their rights. Don't let them please.

>>8393 >only mistake was using the wrong shibboleths I find your sentiment agreeable.

>>8393 this is very true. it's very disappointing to see so many "lain fans" disregard Konaka for an extremely valid point when if he literally swapped the words "cancel culture" for "corporate interests" or literally any other buzzword these people would be fawning over him. also >>8392 's image just goes to show how much these people lack self awareness. these people are distraught that the creator of an anime that they claim to love doesn't agree with them, despite the fact that the whole message of the anime was not to be oversocialised to the point where you care this much about internet drama instead of real life. i saw one sad sack on twitter saying how HE's now out of touch, how braindead do you have to be to not see that the message of SE:L and his message today are not only logically consistent, but back eachother up.

People sure are jumpy these days. The piracy group that puts watermarks on their cartoons for children could've just complained about being so overtly political in a children's show but instead it had to be about left-right.

>>8393 >But what we didn't expect (outside of cyberpunk media written before "internet" was a household term) was that it'd become a monopolistic hellhole run by corporations and their buddies in the government, who are more than happy to censor people if they pose a threat to the system. That seems like a perfectly reasonable expectation of the government that it exercises power to defend itself?

Here we are in the lainchans controlled by Appleman Incorporated that has tentacles in every government...(Warned by the Appleman Bureau of Soykaf. We are watching.)

>>8397 >instead it had to be about left-right. It wouldn't if people weren't so psyopped into thinking "caring about freedom of speech = right-wing". Or if people realized that the far right's current presence is all thanks to quasi-progressive liberals propping them up for an easy scapegoat.

>>8387 Seeing a lot of people say "Seperate the author from his work!". How braindead are these twitter idiots trying to seperate the authors politics from what is in essence a philisopical and political show? Everything that was said in the audio drama was wholly consistent with the message Lain had, but I guess most people just care about the cool cyperpunk aesthetics, forgetting it was supposed to be a dystopia.

Uhm some more specific info about what really happend? Or atleast some less than vague claims about who said or did what.

>>8402 I don't know but from what I can gather from this thread it seems like the murican far-leftist drones we all love so much want to cancel him for mentioning cancel culture in a negative light. It's a clown world we live in and nothing surprises me anymore.

>>8398 It's reasonable that organizations would seek perpetuity. I think the post was made quite literally though; pointing out that the average First World denizen basking in late 20th century comfort (broad "we", 80s-90s context) did not expect Hellworld Minor 2021. As is often the case, history might be very different if there was more foresight. What I personally find astounding is the propaganda. For the first time in history, just about anybody can learn just about anything in seconds to minutes. In recent years, it can even be done from just about anywhere. Yet, few leverage this. Most have accepted a status quo of reliance on "experts" to feed them regurgitated simply-digested, and often simply wrong, information. Twitter is our TV. Even with awareness, I catch myself being affected by these engineered thought-terminating ideas on the daily, and (unfortunately) likely miss many other instances. Of course, this is leveraged in a number of ways. For example, this is how we ended up with a strange volunteer Stasi-lite that harasses you if you so much as point out the memes of power. Hence, this thread. The System's Neatest Trick perfectly exemplified.

I get that people on soykafty social media act like brainless zombies looking for someone to ""cancel"", and its practice just seems so performative to the point that it's funny to watch how all of them always say the same thing. But I wonder if Konaka just feels generally oppressed by the power that people on the Internet has or if he just wants to be able to throw soykaf on certain groups of people or say "politically incorrect" things just for the thrill of it. I think about this because a lot of people out of the common social media ""leftist"" politics group go on these websites, see people complaining all day about the claimed bigot they suffered, and feel that the only way to opposite to these people is to assume a medieval, closed and hatred perspective about everyone in real life and that's just incompatible nowadays, you should seek intelligence and notice the world around you. I see both groups both ways: childish people hungry for power and using shocking speech to get people on their side. I wonder if Konaka really is a point out of the curve here, or if he just got caught up in the Internet mindset.

>>8404 Huxley was right.

>>8393 The shibboleths, as you call them, are merely overt presentations of ideological inbreeding. Ordinarily, I would say that his specific choice to use that shibboleth /suggests/ a ideological motivation, but knowing the quality of his other works and not having found the full video (btw can anyone find it?), I must reserve judgement. The "anti-cancel culture" crowd calls itself anti-corporate because it sees corporations acting their will through the twitterers. The "woke" crowd sees themselves as forcing the corporations to act according to their will. These feed back on each other as a publicized slapfight which serves to disguise the loss of a real political struggle. In truth, all politics has become this woke-vs.-republican narrative, and even attempts to rationally or morally escape the trap by pointing this out constitute the same function - lending legitimacy to the simulation. the above is one potential direction that he could have gone in.

>>8405 It hits hard when the country you've created art in for decades is suddenly oppressed by other cultures that force the business men in suits that fund your ideas to double down and say "fuarrrk your passion, people might stop watching". Even publishing is being more and more hindered (including self-published works). Post-Showa era publishing would let you draw/write/critique/photograph anything (which is why there were so many Japanese magazines about hiring prostitutes, game hacking, phreaking, etc). The more anime producers try to appeal to foreign markets, the more writers and directors either give up or smoke themselves to death.

>>8396 >i saw one sad sack on twitter saying how HE's now out of touch, how braindead do you have to be to not see that the message of SE:L and his message today are not only logically consistent, but back eachother up. This is what drives me up the wall. The Knights were an organisation of useful idiots who pretend to be nice on the surface but use bullying and harassment to achieve their goals. Anti-Lain spreads malicious and untrue rumours as a weapon to ostracise Arisu from society. And when Lain sinks to their level by doxxing the Knights to get them killed, the show makes it clear this is a sign of her own mental decline and not something to celebrate. People saying that Konaka has somehow lost it are morons, or people who only pretend they watched the show.

If he was American they would have destroyed him for wrongthink. Twittards man.

>>8403 >murican far-leftist drones Censorship-loving liberals are not leftists. People on the actual left recognize cancel culture as just another tool for cracking worker solidarity by promoting worker blacklisting and begging bosses to fire them.

>>8429 fuarrrking hell this label soykaf is gay. Stop being atteched to your little leftist label because you "real ones" have no decision what a "real leftist" or "real fuarrrking whatever" is. You have no power. They do.

>>8429 >>8430 Hey, hey, just use a more extreme term and problem solved. left ---> mega communist Marx appreciator liberal ---> extreme centrist government slayer etc. etc.

>>8428 to american news media, this is a terrorist

>>8429 I don't know what you call it in the U.S., or what those people call themselves, but "liberalism" by definition is not a censorship-loving ideology (your "censorship-loving liberal" sounds like an oxymoron). For example, these people who support cancel culture are for the most part against free speech and equality before the law, which are liberal values. I think authoritarian far-leftism fits well, at least much better than any term containing the word "liberal", which represents the very opposite these people do. They oppose liberty and freedom.

>>8434 As an american, i can confirm we call them Democrats, or dog fukers for short. These people want external validation for their own retarded ideas and idealism, because they know inherently it's a lie. They want to be pampered and fed, and they don't care if they have to be in prison to get it.

>>8434 >I think authoritarian far-leftism fits well, at least much better than any term containing the word "liberal", which represents the very opposite these people do. They oppose liberty and freedom. You're in for a big surprise if you ever read up on the history of liberalism because it turns out it's always held highly contradictory positions on freedom in spite of its namesake. Here's a good book on the subject: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9670246-liberalism >>8437 As a citizen of the world, we call them right wingers because America has two right-wing parties and a nearly non-existent left. It's a matter of perspective (Americans have an extremely narrow one).

>>8438 >two right-wing parties It is just liberal populism with corporate welfare for both parties. > it turns out it's always held highly contradictory positions You are going to talk about old liberalism and try to compare it with new liberalism? You mention americans having an extremely narrow perspective, but you talk like that. "that" being "dishonestly". Are you aware that modern liberalism has very little in comparison to "old" liberalism? Considering your book recommendation, I'd assume so... Old liberalism has its roots in republicanism, you know: The french philosophy from Mr. Napoleon. Today's liberalism has its roots in... Well, I wouldn't exactly say "socialism". It's more of a debt-slavery type of deal. We keep you alive and contained, you keep us in power. You should read more than state approved books, otherwise you will never be able to connect with people on any genuine level when regarding differing opinions politically...

>>8439 >Well, I wouldn't exactly say "socialism". It's more of a debt-slavery type of deal. What does debt slavery have to do with socialism? It has a lot more in common with company towns and sharecropping.

Konaka was always one of those anime writers/directors that didn't really expect foreign audiences to appreciate or even know of his work, and the fact that the entire Digimon community online (not just twitter, all of the forums and niche message boards too) hate his guts over an audio drama that was exclusively meant for Japanese audiences aged 4-9, definitely only furthered his superstitions about western audiences "not getting it" or being too set in their ways. When it comes to anime production and foreign outrage culture, it's either a good thing or a bad thing. Good meaning anime directors will give up trying to appeal to foreign markets, bad meaning they'll take a look at their work and say "maybe I should tone it down, some people might take offense after all."

>>8429 >Censorship-loving liberals are not leftists Shut up. Yes they are. >>8434 It's just another way words have been twisted for political gain. When you see Americans say "liberal" think of cultural marxists and wokists. When you see Americans say "capitalism" think of economic liberalism. When you see Americans say "socialism" think of communism.

>>8443 Ah yes, "shut up," the mark of a rational discussion. I bow before your supreme intellect.

>>8438 > As a citizen of the world, we call them right wingers In Europe we've imported this problem, and it is very much a left-wing problem. Wokism is killing off the youth parties of the European left. The only silver lining has been the European right taking the opportunity to fill the void and starting to appeal to the younger generations. The anti-establishment counter-culture here is becoming very right-wing. Left-wing activists are accused of being too American. It's been by far the weirdest and fastest cultural change I have personally experienced.

>>8445 >The only silver lining has been the European right taking the opportunity to fill the void and starting to appeal to the younger generations. The anti-establishment counter-culture here is becoming very right-wing. How is that a silver lining? Counter culture should be orthogonal to conventional politics altogether.

>>8446 Our right-wing was really soykaf and only catered to the elderly. So at least that is changing. >Counter culture should be orthogonal to conventional politics Should it? The counter-culture here used to be very left-wing and I don't remember it being unconventional. I may be looking back with rose-tinted glasses though. Although I wouldn't call the shift to the right we've seen recently as conventional.

>>8447 >The counter-culture here used to be very left-wing and I don't remember it being unconventional. Basing my views on what I know of American counter-culture, specifically hippies and the drug culture, I think that while they would naturally lean very libertarian, a typical hippie either simply doesn't think of politics or doesn't engage seriously with it. Hippies want to *drop out*, which means not participating in quite a lot of spheres of public life, including politics. Hunter S. Thompson wrote a pretty good article on early hippie-ism and how it conflicted with leftist activism in the 60s. I think that conflict remains to this day, although various groups have had various levels of success with bridging the gap (especially the punk movement, although that was not always strictly leftist either). https://1960sdaysofrage.wordpress.com/2018/10/22/the-hippies-by-hunter-s-thompson/ And in the drug culture, you definitely meet a lot of people who could be accurately described as ancaps, especially dealers.

>>8438 >All these lainanons still believing in right and left wing factions Those wings belong to the same middle-eastern bird

>>8448 American hippies only cared about causes traditionally considered left-wing (such as not fighting immoral foreign wars for Wall Street) because they were are risk of being drafted into fighting in Vietnam, and it was the told-school genuine left-wing that was most vocal in opposition to that war. The instant the Vietnam draft stopped being a threat to their personal freedom is the instant that they went mask-off and got hardons for "fuarrrk you, got mine" capitalism.

Somehow it's very difficult to discern what happened and what the controversy is about from the posts in this thread. It would seem that straight out the gate the discussion turned to interpreting what happened (which seemingly was never clarified) as the death of free speech. For those interested in a clear view of events: https://nicchiban.nichegamer.com/2021/08/digimon-tamers-fight-political-correctness-and-cancel-culture-in-live-script-reading-at-digifes-2021/ Essentially, Konaka Chiaki (writer of Serial Experiments Lain and Digimon Tamers) wrote a stage play set in the Digimon Tamers world in the plot of which condemns cancel culture. Some fansub group obtained the audio drama version of that stage play and subbed. They added at the beginning of their subbed version a warning reading "This program promotes far-right politics and conspiracy theories.” Konaka felt the need to defend himself against those allegations on twitter. It's weird to me that Konaka defended himself against an unofficial subbing group usually the attitude of Japanese media companies towards such groups is to ignore they exist and take their work off the internet by any means possible. In my opinion just as he has the right to write whatever he wants and criticize through his writing whatever social trends he feels are worth criticizing, consumers of his work also have the right to criticize their in whatever way they want. It's important to realize that no censorship resulted from this controversy. The writer wasn't fired or reprimanded in any way as far as I can tell and plenty of people have defended him and his work.

Has anyone seen Vamp (2019)?

Looks like a storm in a tea cup. >>8401 >How braindead are these twitter idiots trying to seperate the authors politics from what is in essence a philisopical and political show? They aren't. People change, our cultural creations work as a photograph from our opinions, of course, but only from the moment they were created. There's no such thing as hypocrisy when you consider the passage of time and the rate at what things change nowadays. That's how I see it.

>>8823 >Looks like a storm in a tea cup. Yes. Culture creators being removed and blacklisted, their creation being hidden and this income being reduced to nothing if they dare say that cancel culture exist, this is a small deal. Left wing politic being omnipresent in cultural products, for instance MGS5 saying that America was always a nation of immigrants from many background and that forcing them to speak english is a form of supremacy, but the first glimpse of centrist politic trigger an Orwellian cancellation of everyone involved. Small deal.

>>8488 This sounds kinda hillarious. Was he just exploiting the use of the characters or did he make a sincere story? Because I always thought Tamers should get a sequel. I wanna see a proper sub of it by a group that isn't ideologically motivated.

>>8488 "It's important to realize that no censorship resulted from this controversy." the irony of people complaining about cancel culture is that they are almost never actually silenced, and instead complain to a large audience about how they're being "silenced." there is a nuanced discussion to be had on how "cancel culture" affects friend groups and small communities, but everyone just wants to yell and complain and not actually have meaningful dialogue no matter where you stand on it, especially since no one uses the same definition

>>8824 > America was always a nation of immigrants from many background this is objectively true lmao. and dear god i wish leftism was actually as omnipresent as people say it is

>>8828 Im sure the native american tribes like apache and hopi would have something to say about that.

>>8824 Yes, small deal. Culture creators shouldn't be regarded as saints and you shouldn't care about the noisy minority that is the left wing militants.

I found Digimon Tamers and even Texhnolyze to be far more palatable than Lain to me. Lain just felt too boring.

>>8827 You only hear about it when it's famous people. Who usually loose their jobs anyway or are foced into humiliation rituals.

>>8960 people have different tastes. However, Texhnolyze is very much more slow compared to Lain. It's harder to finish, because there are 20 episodes compared to Lain's 13.

What exactly has he said that so frigging bad?