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in an increasingly surveilled and privatized world, the significance graffiti carries becomes more pronounced while as anything else, it can be capitalized upon, validity is ultimately only affirmed by illegal acts, confirmed by presence in physical space even if it becomes documented online graffiti remains one of very few remotely "underground" subcultures as necessitated by its illegality this transformation of public and abandoned space without regard to upheld concepts of property often engages primarily with concepts of style and beauty derived from a lineage of illegal art - regional styles popularized far before the web remain distinct, though this visual language is often only identifiable to those engaged within it posting some graffiti vandalism i like. interested in tags and less so in murals or "street art" as it seems particularly rare that street art which aims to be sociopolitically inclined makes more of a statement than vandalism for the sport of it alone.

i'll post some of my own pictures if there's interest. not of my own words that i write, but from various actions. if anybody wants me to sketch any words or letters though, shoot them. would be a fun exercise.

>>12171 >in an increasingly surveilled and privatized world, the significance graffiti carries becomes more pronounced >while as anything else, it can be capitalized upon, validity is ultimately only affirmed by illegal acts Doesn't sound right to me. Feels like affixed justification to the act, but my feelings are irrelevant. This idea simply doesn't follow. >this transformation of public and abandoned space without regard to upheld concepts of property often engages primarily with concepts of style and beauty derived from a lineage of illegal art - regional styles popularized far before the web remain distinct, though this visual language is often only identifiable to those engaged within it Your sentence staggers back and forth, unsure of what it's saying. I used to do a little myself, but I had the epiphany that I bring down the quality of life for others for my own sake. Even if I liked what I did, it's selfish to only consider that. Other people don't like it, even if they're old grey buildings, it makes them uglier. If you want to talk about subverting 'upheld concepts of property', consider that the public does not like what you do to the public's property? The worst effect of vandalism in my opinion, is that it reinforces a conception that where you live is a dump. I know I live in a scummy area, but I don't want a visible reminder of it wherever I walk.

>>12183 >Doesn't sound right to me. Feels like affixed justification to the act, but my feelings are irrelevant. This idea simply doesn't follow. It doesn't need justification either I suppose, as it will happen either way. I don't intend to specifically say it is good or bad, rather aspects of it that I like and think one may be able to learn to appreciate - but I think there's very much something to be said regarding graffiti as art due to the unique way it pertains to surveillance, censorship, and property. >Other people don't like it, even if they're old grey buildings, it makes them uglier. If you want to talk about subverting 'upheld concepts of property', consider that the public does not like what you do to the public's property? Many people like it. Many people also dislike the constant barrage of advertising including in public spaces, but this is encouraged, whereas graffiti is discouraged most vocally by those who stand to profit from images of "cleanliness" - often those also interested in such legal advertising. >The worst effect of vandalism in my opinion, is that it reinforces a conception that where you live is a dump. I think much of this idea is deliberately constructed. Places - cities particularly - that are completely free of graffiti or really of any imagery which is not expressly permitted feel far more sterile, bleak, and lifeless to me than places which convey life through the markings of those who live there.

>>12172 >Other people don't like it, even if they're old grey buildings, it makes them uglier. If you want to talk about subverting 'upheld concepts of property', consider that the public does not like what you do to the public's property? The subway is subsidized by ME therefore I get to choose how it looks, oh wait.... Haha so instead of graf we get ads from private corporations. Those who are antigraffiti are probably happy in our soykafty reality- I personally hate waking up and walking around in NYC, its the most bleak, inhuman, and artificial place I've ever lived, but atleast graffiti brightens up my day.

Graffiti is great. I say all you can really do is appreciate whats is good there. Different scenes are better than others thats for sure.

My city has little grafiti. I would honestly like to change that. I doodle in my sketchbook as a hobby, so it would be a nice change of pace. Honestly, I just want to hold a mirror to the rude people where I live who aren't overtly criminal but propagate negativity via minor selfish actions on repeat. Death by 1000 rude papercuts. Daily life is ambiently annoying because of the volume of such rude actions. I want them to feel shame or at least annoyance at the grafifi. It feels like there is nothing else I can do since you cannot talk to them. If you do, they will certainly blow you off, or in some instances, it'll escalate into violence. So this feels like my only way to play tit for tat with them since there is no consequences for these people otherwise. And what they do is too minor of an offense for police to get involved. If I can make them uncomfortable just a little bit in a way that isn't just drugged out hobo scribbles, then i'll feel like I've done something good for where I live.

>>12184 >Many people also dislike the constant barrage of advertising including in public spaces Graffiti as irl ad blocking would be a cool idea.

>>12516 that subway is sponsored by those ads from private corporations, which are also likely composed of people paying the same tax as you. Incidentally a lot of people also subsidizing the subway by tax just as much or more than you probably disagree with you about how it should look aesthetically. How does everyone reconcile this mess of competing opinion? Personally I'm anti graffiti. I spent some time in NYC and the place was frankly terrible. Garbage, graffiti, some of the most awful human specimens I've ever seen, and the stench of it all, I could go on. Im probably the angriest person I know and every time I see a piece of litter I get a little angrier. >>12889 sure but have you considered just painting it over with something not more hideous ?

>>12890 What if we paint it yellow and put a nice smiley face on it? Would that cheer you up?

>>12891 thats not a bad idea but do it tastefully, try to tape it up so you can paint to the edges (and not beyond) or at least have a clean border of some sort. That's a big problem with graffiti is just how sloppy it is (and a culture that tolerates tasteful graffiti usually also tolerates the sloppy garbage too). pic 1: ugly graffiti applied sloppily over ad. You still see the add, and the graffiti, disgusting disorder, 0/10 pic 2: smiley face applied among graffiti in a sloppy way, over uncovered graffiti and with new graffiti atop it. Enforce order; draw a backdrop! Also the face is kinda not great but in an ordered environment it would be better pic3: some surfaces really should not receive graffiti at all. I do wish the freight companies would sometimes do more to control rust on their containers but the freight train in good order is actually quite a pleasant sight and people often slather them with ugliness.

i love graffiti its important to write everywhere we are the same ones who wrote on the walls of caves and nothing changed we want to do it cover every advertisement some people say 'i cant even read it it looks bad' well, i know that handstyle looks unique for everyone and it reflects whats inside how we visualise anything so get up write your name everywhere pick one train cars are my personal favorite, rolling canvases i dont want to look at a blank wall i want to look at what people wrote to each their own of course my favorite is abstract wildstyle that looks organic

The people who graffiti are usually people embedded within the system, people who use iPhone and will buy a new one every month. Even if you could justify it somehow as some revolt, it'd still only be part of the problem and a show of the symptons of our corporative communistic society. In a good space with good people, there would be no 'art' over the walls because the walls would be themselves the art, be it good woodworking, chiseled stone or just good architecture, being representative of the people who created it and their creativity provided by God.

>>12899 >people embedded within the system Most writers are either seasoned criminals or crypto bros, but sure a 3rd of them are "normal" people. >Even if you could justify it somehow as some revolt You can go to prison for it. If you're serious about it you have to steal cans unless you have money to buy hundreds of them every year. You have to dodge security, trains, 3rd rails, crazy people. Cut fences and break into stations. There's nothing as anti-establishment as that lifestyle > In a good space with good people, there would be no 'art' over the walls graff is way nicer on boring old walls and fences than nothing.

>>12900 do you personally know people who went to prison for a real amount of time (1 year plus?) and if so what country and did they do anything super egregious or was it just graffitti

>>12901 nope, but plenty of people that have been, look up prison graffiti on yt. of course you are more likely to get a fine or community service depending on where you are and how much you screwed up but its definitely a possibility

Graffiti is a important expression of vital creativity, crucial in a urban environment

I've seen some nice wall murals by legitimate artists that make worn urban spaces seem less destitute. However I've never come across graffiti that makes me feel like it improved the area, rather than reinforcing the message home that you live in a disgusting unsafe hellhole. Graffiti artists are just selfish narcissists at the end of the day. If you really want to rebel in a meaningful way, try directing it at the people in society with actual power. Making poor people feel more miserable isn't nice or productive.

>>12945 That's a great opinion! Thanks Buddy!

I find something endearing about writings on walls. There's something genuine and direct about them, and being bad and lame is kind of a requirement for that. People aren't made of the beauty that they so desperately try to achieve with art. An artist works will always come across as somehow artificially constructed and rehearsed as opposed to a spontaneous, genuine reflection of their spirit. The vast majority of wall writings are lazy ugly tags, crude proclamations of love and occasionally weak verses by wannabe poets. And these are the most common feelings, thoughts and wants that most people feel when they want to shout out something to the world at large: "I was here", "me and x are in love". When it comes to good graffiti, even the ones hard to read, it's evident and undeniable that there's a great amount of skill and creativity involved, and so that it's art. I feel like they have artistic value, regardless of where they appear. I've also heard that there's a certain "ethic" when it comes to graffiti: you don't ruin new walls, you either write on old ones, or those already graffitied. When painting on trains, they do it just beneath the windows, it's quite uncommon here for the windows to be fully covered. I feel like writers have more of a right to express themselves, and even shove that expression into your eyes, than you have a right not to be bothered by other people and what they have to say. I also agree with what was stated here by others itt: buying legitimacy to brainwash me to buy a new product feels dirtier than what they do, even if it is selfish narcissism.

>>12171 Graffiti can be whatever you want it to be

Typically I don't pay much attention to city graffiti, but there is one artist or collective which has become insofar recognizable to me that whenever I see them anywhere I often begin to feel nostalgic due to the association to my past life. They dominate the city landscape in a particular city, and I was pleasantly surprised to recently find that their work had also spread to someplace where I currently live after I had moved away from the city. Thought I'd drop a few images of their work here.

>>12993 99% of them are visual trash and without them, graff would be legal and socially encouraged.