Safes

ive decided i want to get a safe to store stuff in. ive been trying to come up with a list of features - pin/combo rather than key: in the US pigs cant force me to disclose pin/combo. (potential downside of pin is the keys might get worn over time?) i might just have to keep keys off-site somewhere (relative, safe deposit box? but they could maybe get a warrant for the safe deposit box, giving them access to the key) maybe i just destroy the key entirely, but i dont trust my own brain enough to not forget the pin/combo. do i just put it in a password manager? fuarrrk this is a deep rabbit hole. - optional bolt-down: i rent, so i cant anchor it to anything. ive also seen the holes for the bolts used to unlock or reset safes so it could be a vulnerability - prefer fire/waterproof: help keep the possibility of smell down, and it would be nice to have some extra assurance. - not very big: im not looking to stash rifles or anything, mostly just small items. anyone have thoughts or experience with getting a safe? what brands are soykaf? ive been watching videos of people popping safes just by dropping them or shoving a couple pencils through bolt holes, and cant seem to find any reviews that even talk about vulnerabilities or security features.

>>6826 >help keep the possibility of smell down A drug safe, then, huh? Safes are for thwarting criminals, not cops. A safe with a combo might keep you from having to open the safe yourself, but it won't keep the cops from breaking into the safe themselves (or getting the safe manufacturer to cooperate with them in opening it), if a warrant permits them to search it.

>>6826 >>6828 If you're working with personal amounts, I doubt local PD would bother with going through the process of breaking into it. If you're selling, however, you're probably fuarrrked.

there was a DEFCON presentation of safe cracking that was quite good, and critical vulnerabilities on each of a number of high end safes were explained. As far as advice goes, maybe you could find what features government safes are rated for. GSA is the main regulator of government safes in the USA iirc. anything that is worth any security will be expensive. to be honest a lock box is good enough for the money if you just want privacy, and 100 USD can get you a decent security cabinet. If the feds have a warrant, they can just break into the safe regardless of your consent. if you want a solid safe, be prepared to spend upwards of 3000USD. depending on what you want to store, your options might be different. Do you mind explaining what you want to store (documents, articles, memory devices, electronics, or firearms and explosives etc.)? If you want to store documents, fireproof/waterproof is a good idea, but you might not need to worry about more enhanced features. For electronics, you might also need grounding /EM shielding. For weapons and explosives, the BATFE strictly regulates construction standards for optimal security and safety. Another option is to build a bunker or safe on some cheap land or get a security monitored box or storage unit (swiss bank type vault where your privacy is part of the service) Alternatively, you can make a poor mans safe by combining a secured lock box with further security boxes or features you build into it yourself. https://www.securitybase.com/gsa/safes.html https://www.gsa.gov/buying-selling/purchasing-programs/requisition-programs/gsa-global-supply/nsns-and-product-lines/security-containers

>>6835 I'm at work, so I haven't had a chance to check any of these out, just posting them for others: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9vIcfLrmiA - DEF CON 25 - Nathan Seidle - Open Source Safe Cracking Robots - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8yCiYCNVQQ - DEF CON 23 - Hacking Smart Safes - On the Brink of a Robbery - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU7ZhpbIBTM - DEF CON 13: A Safecracking Double Feature: Dial 'B' For BackDialing and Spike the Wonder Safe - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_lkYQ88kv0 - DEF CON 14: Safecracking Without a Trace This one looks like it's the same presenter/presentation as the previous video, but looks longer and was done after, so there may be changes/improvements over the previous one. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odu1d8OAW9Y - The Last HOPE: Safe-Cracking (Complete)

If you are renting you can bolt a safe to something too heavy to steal quickly like a bookshelf or chest of drawers. As the other lainons have mentioned they help with the smallish threat model of unskilled thieves (great thing is that most thieves are unskilled).

>>6926 like this anon said, you can make it uneconomical for a thief to take something really easily. A simple option would be to throw a cinder block or two into the bottom of the safe/box. or fill it with something that weighs a lot (in the case of firearms lockers/safes, ammunition is a good filler that adds weight)

https://www.ccthomas.com/details.cfm?P_ISBN13=9780398070793 >This new second edition, many years in the making, provides the reader with the information that is needed to understand both traditional mechanisms as well as the most modern and sophisticated security technology incorporated into locks and how to bypass them. The author presents extremely detailed theoretical and practical information in order to facilitate a thorough understanding of the complex subject matter. While the first edition covered many topics in summary fashion, this revised work examines each facet of the subject in extensive and, when required, intricate detail. Law enforcement, forensic examiners, the intelligence community, security management personnel, locksmiths, architects, security specialists, special operations personnel, lawyers, and others need to have this critical information presented in this book in order to deal effectively with their missions and be able to assess vulnerability through a solid theoretical understanding of the subjects covered.

Some decent books on the subject.

Also this,