Stallman was right

>worked with Facebook, Google, WhatsApp to implement Signal protocol >Facebook Messenger and Google Allo default encryption to off >WhatsApp founder just quit Facebook and claims they were planning to weaken WhatsApp;s encryption so they could read user messages Was Moxie just naive or did he only care about the publicity?

I think he really cares about private communication.

Little by little world is stepping towards a better future That is why whatsapp had to do the "we encrypt stuff end to end, we don't know what is happening" because people were scared of what they heard with NSA Soon enough they will see that any type of centralized server<->user service puts people in the "spread your asscheeks and ask for mercy" user chategory unless they are the owners of the server and then, in 100 years time, people will go to meshnets.

I think he genuinely cares, I think this is demonstrated in his refusal to allow for a federation of Signal servers[0]. Do you think he's over controlling for this? Or do you think it makes sense to restrict people to your one always-updated your-way-or-the-highway method? >>4558 Evolution over revolution [0] https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/

>>4561 One thing on that signal article. Federated protocols with fractured support could easily be fixed with using multiple servers and services for single client( eg. 1 server allows video but doesnt voice? I use second for that, all under the hood, no need to switch servers manually, it just does that automatically). This will fix 2 things. Fist one being the afformentioned "unification" fractuting of features a federated protocol can bring to the table. Second one being that services will then try to compete for metadata and users, and they will try to bring as many services and features to the table just so they get their iserbase happy. Win win. Just have to make those federated protocols like reverse multipath TCP

>>4563 I think the problems come in that you do not necessarily hope to add new features, but to stay above security flaws. Dowgrade attacks have always been an issue and will continue to be prevelent unless you simply do not accept any other method than the most recent.

>>4565 I think downgrade attacks arent a protocol issue but a service issue, and they should stay that way. I mean, if you are letting for those kind of backalley soykaf to happen you deserve to get fuarrrked

>requiring phone numbers so users won't be able to cycle through identities at will >neurosuggesting it wasn't a honeypot all along and snowden wasn't a puppet that lured the naive anons into it

>>4567 Wow nice post buddy Really adds up to the conversation

>>4568 I offered a third possibility to the two mentioned in the OP, suggesting that Signal might be a honeypot all along considering how one US government funds an organization that conflicts with NSA's motives. But whatever floats your boat man. https://pando.com/2015/03/01/internet-privacy-funded-by-spooks-a-brief-history-of-the-bbg/

>>4543 he cared when he was younger, now tryna live off his fame as a poster. if you follow his doings you see a continuing degrade in care for privacy and encryption, and more interest in pushing his own things at any cost. Abandoning old but solid projects is a bitter side effect. besides, i think >>4567 has a point in the 1st line. if you don't allow using throwaways and segregated identities, it shows you don't give a soykaf about actual users' privacy and just want to tie userbase to your product like anyone else. even with fuarrrking skype i could manage do have multiple identities. >>4561 i don't see your approval of denying decentralized servers. It's the same one-product-one-platform think that the commercial solutions have. centralization fuarrrks everyone in the end. why even open-source it if you don't want anyone to use your open code? not an inch better than Goolag.

He wants to defeat _mass_ surveillance. With this goal in mind, the perfect is the enemy of the good. I'd rather have a much wider privacy base established without some features (federation, doesn't require phone number) than to have a perfect setup that never gets adopted. At least with Signal, I can tell normal people "hey, install this app so we can talk securely" and it's extremely easy to get them on board. The instant someone needs to make yet another username and password and choose a server, they're going to bounce the fuarrrk out. Just look at things like Diaspora. You ask someone to sign up and all of a sudden they need to choose a server? What the fuarrrk does that mean? Nope, not going to bother, close window. 360 and moonwalk away.

>>4593 wow, i didn't even think of this. You might have a point. on the other hand, if he makes his thing normal person-friendly while sacrificing basic properties that cyberpeople who know their soykaf need, they won't care to persuade their nontech peers to use it. You see my problem? I don't wanna use it myself, as I dislike the lack of multiaccounts and the need for a phone; so why would I then go and try to get my friends to use it.

>>4593 I agree with your point completely, having signed up most of my family and friends with that simple pitch. >>4598 >the need for a phone There's a desktop client brah

>>4622 The desktop client requires a paired phone. It's not standalone.

>>4622 A desktop client which is based on a soykafty platform which has like, a billion holes in it. And most of them are still undiscovered.

>>4625 >A strawman argument which is based on no actual proof which has like, a billion holes in it.

>>4628 https://thehackernews.com/2018/05/signal-messenger-vulnerability.html Probably not a billion, but still...

Assuming >>4567 isn't right, I still think signal has utility as a privacy tool. Idk how it is in Europe but in the US the default method for text chat is still just basic SMS/MMS. Second is probably either Facebook's chat app or imessages. Point being, if I met someone IRL and wanted to keep in touch, 90% of the time they would just give me their phone number. Signal makes it so that people can have e2e crypto without changing these habits. Part of me wishes textsecure had been the dominant fork, and we had a good option for true e2e encrypted texting, but I do buy the signal devs' reasoning for doing things this way. Plus I think SMS's days are numbered. People are going to be moving to services like signal anyway, if only for the ease of sending images/video, creating group chats, instant messaging features, etc. The fact that signal can compete feature for feature with the likes of whatsapp (which isn't very popular here yet) is an advantage that shouldn't be overlooked.

>>4630 Wow I'm retarded... I thought this was the signal thread.

>>4569 government organizations are at odds all the time. The US government was designed specifically so that different parts of it would be against each other.

>>4569 >organization that conflicts with NSA's motives >>4635 >government organizations are at odds all the time. I second this. If you go through the history of the Internet back to the 70s, you'll find some countercultral, weed-smoking hippies sitting in a lab directly funded by the US military to develop computer technologies. There has been an anti-war hippie who was enlisted, and faced the choice between Viewnam and Jail, but got him Plan C to conduct researches in a military research institute. The manager of the lab, Roland Silver interviewed him with a series questions, about nothing but LSD... It turned out Silver was one of his people, and later that hippie used the funding to research applied mathematics and later invented something big and caused a lot of troubles to the government till this days, and his name was Whitfield Diffie. Back in the 80s personal computing became a thing, and the relations of some hackers and US government's funding deserves its own book. Later the cypherpunk movement started, and to the early 90s they've got the mailing list publicized, soon hundreds of people joined. And you would find people talking about how to fuarrrk the government out of the internet with ".mil" E-mail addresses on the government servers, many contributed important ideas. Yeah, and in the 90s there were the cryptowar. We had researchers who got their money from the National Research Foundation, while blatantly attacking the government's policies on encryption. Back in the 00s, Tor Project started and quickly received the funding from the Navy, with developers with ".navy.mil" addresses talking about defending themselves from state-level adversaries. These things are still happening to this days, many papers about censorship-resistant systems still get funding from the military. And don't be surprised to see a ".mil" address in the Tor mailing list. >The US government was designed specifically so that different parts of it would be against each other. And this is exactly why. If someone just see a single instance where the research was funded by the military they might think it was some big conspiracy behind, but really it's normally just day-to-day routine started back in the 70s. This is exactly how the US government (partially) works. And even if things are going closer to oligarchy and authoritarianism worldwide, in my opinions it's one of the few greatest feature of the US government, researchers still have a relatively-high degree of academic freedom and free to conduct their personal research projects without being interference, even with funding from the military. And the US government allowed that because they understand even the researches themselves are against themselves, the results from the researches can be used by the US government for their own political purposes. For example, Tor Project is indirectly useful for the US government to spread propaganda and push for regime changes. Also in the longrun, it helps US to be on the cutting-edge of the research which would benefit the government for their own interest. Discovering a connection to the US government is nothing new, mostly harmless, and it's also a win-win situation.

marlinkike is a spook plant. same soy they've been doing for years, except now the counterculture pivots around world of crypto not the socially exclusive, meatspace schmoozing of art, music, film circles. back in the day you'd get an 'it girl' to infiltrate warhol's factory, or insert a gman into a hardcore band ala black flag. no, unlike the real folk-heros, there will be no prison, exile, or suicide in marlinGermans future because being moxie is just a job. he'll simply disappear for longer and longer periods, ostensibly under the guise of it being part of his narratively-convenient wild, traveler side, but in reality he'll be operating abroad as some other character until he's made the transition to his next long-term role.

>>4543 Moxie is very passionate, but he also likes to hear himself talk. He is used to being regarded as a visionary or something, and plays up the drama between "surveillance" and regular people while simultaneously working for huge privacy infringing corporations most of his professional career. Moxie should have plenty enough money at this point to work for EFF or GNU foundation for the rest of his career should his morals be more important than his wallet. If Moxie wants to keep both, he ought to start over with a new startup. Being some kind of anti-surveillance freedom fighter does not mix with working for facebook or twitter. In my opinion, he has lost touch with the technical conversation and has gotten used to being an "evangelist." He talks more than he codes. Since that's his interest, he ought to get into management or do gigs as a public speaker. WRT signal and surveillance in general: I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time getting invested in any particular privacy platform. These come and go, and the powers that be have a plan for everything. A plan that starts with compromising you with social, and physical attacks. If the government wants you, signal is not the end of the world for them. They have a plan.

>>4567 >>requiring phone numbers so users won't be able to cycle through identities at will that's why i prefere threema as my daily driver.

>>4703 >going from datamining honeypot with working audited cryptography to outright proprietary showelware made in switzerland™

>>4704 >that is audited and whitepapered

>>4709 Oh god I thought they COULD have hidden a backdoor in their code, thank god it is audited and whitepapered. I'll take a look at it's source code just in case Present Day, Present Time! AHAHAHAHAHA!

>>4717 every service can be backdoored or compromised, even it is oss (remember bleeding heart?). i have no reason to distrust the devs of threema so far.

>>4719 >i have no reason to distrust You have every reason to distrust the developers of Threema or any OSS project devs whatsoever. It is just more difficult to implement backdoors when there is a high chance someone will catch that backdoor sooner or later. I just wish open source projects would have the same verification process as the seL4 kernel.

>>4732 well, if they are backdoored or hidden gmen, they really try hard not to look like them https://threema.ch/en/transparencyreport

Open Whisper Systems, maker of free encrypted text and voice mobile apps like TextSecure and Signal/RedPhone, got a generous $1.35-million infusion from the CIA-connected Broadcasting Board of Governors. https://www.evernote.com/shard/s1/sh/41369e4f-c6cc-4a46-8809-6b0f2440efe6/15e3d5abb69ae125

>>4543 https://pando.com/2015/03/01/internet-privacy-funded-by-spooks-a-brief-history-of-the-bbg/

>>4744 >using Botnetnote as pastepin you have to go back