VPN Choice

Hey Lains, looking for a VPN that isn't gonna be fedded mad isn't gonna cost me out my ass. Is there a good choice? I've heard tunnelbear and mullvad are good, do they meet the standards? Payment without credit card is also neccesary

>>26863 I'm using ProtonVPN, and free VPNs on Google Play Store for NSFW stuff and they ain't bad for me, actually. Orbot / Tor also works for that too.

Mullvad. You can get an account using a burner email and pay via cash in an envelop or cryptocurrency. If you're careful to obfuscate your ip address from them, they don't have a clue who you are. They tell you how to set up Tor -> Mullvad for that, which is not the same as just using Tor and VPN at the same time.

Alternatives to Mullvad in no particular order are: IVPN OVPN Cryptostorm Njalla AirVPN All these accept Monero as payment, allow for using Wireguard/OpenVPN configs, and require an Email address at most.

Proton VPN. There are free servers that still very-very helpful to me (live in Russia, have very strict censorship, almost Chinese-like) Mullvad VPN RiseUp VPN - it is free (though you can donate) but sometimes slow as hell (even slower than Tor network)

It's impossible to prove whether a VPN is controlled by governmental agencies or not, just use Tor.

It doesn't matter whether a VPN is malicious or not if they don't have any identifying information about you. Some VPNs like Mullvad facilitate that.

>>26863 Chain free VPN, even chinese one. That's how you get privacy.

>>26870 How do you imagine VPN not having your IP? Connecting to it through T0r? Then what's the point of V P N in the first place? It also gonna be painfully slow.

>>26878 I imagine a VPN not having my IP by not connecting to the VPN using my own IP. Good opsec is always a necessity under any circumstaqnces.

>>26863 >TunnelBear >Mullvad Are you IntelBroker or what?

>>26879 So what do you use to hide your real IP from VPN? And if you hide it, why do you even need a VPN after it's already hidden?

IVPN OVPN Cryptostorm Njalla AirVPN Mullvad All accept monero

>>26880 He's probably in some Israeli prison rn.

if you believe that centralized companies' pinky promise that they won't log your browsing history and that they are deserving of your trust, then pick mullvad or ivpn. they have proven to be reliable in the past. (if obscura wasn't an itoddler-only app, I'd recommend them, because at least then your trust would be split between two different centralized companies) if you want a decentralized setup, then either tor or nym tor is battle tested, secure and private (for most people! the design has begun to show its age), but your download speed will be capped at 1MB/s and you'll be blocked from a good chunk of the internet. it's also not a vpn nym is a mixnet. architecturally it is much more private than tor, but it's slower, so they also provide a fast two-hop amneziawg mode. it's the same as mullvad / ivpn multi hop, but decentralized as the nodes are operated by randoms, and you login with zero-knowledge proof credentials so you have a pretty strong trustless environment. the downside is that it's a newer project so it hasn't been battle tested. >>26883 i think he's implying he uses someone else's connection, like his neighbor's wi-fi

>>26954 Obscura or MullvadVPN Don't recommend using protonVPN if you already use a lot in their eco system: Mail , Drive , AI Just don't want to get sucked into a single eco system.

Switzerland is now deliberating a new surveillance law. No VPN from there is safe. https://cyberinsider.com/swiss-surveillance-ordinance-sparks-backlash-from-privacy-tech-firms/ Tor is also fedded out the ass and compromised. https://www.reddit.com/r/TOR/comments/1fjmon5/german_authorities_successfully_deanonymized_tor/ https://cyberinsider.com/tor/ The future is I2P style mixnets with outproxies to clearnet.

>>26989 actual surveillance rollout will come to everywhere tor isn't compromised. it's weak as fuarrrk but the protocol is solid enough to keep using. less weak than p2p stuff anyways

>>26990 KAX17 operates more than half of the Tor nodes in Germany. The only salvation for us is the Chinese and Russian nodes in I2P. Likewise, the only salvation for them is our I2P nodes here in Europe.

Anonymity set >i2p's weakest link is its tiny userbase and just having it installed and running on your system fingerprints you to some degree by your isp. >it's not really a viable alternative to tor until there's widespread adoption which isn't happening anytime soon partly because their developers are cockmonglers >Mainly just the fact that I2P's anonymity set is much smaller than Tor's. With Tor, you have well over 2,000,000 daily users (https://metrics.torproject.org/userstats-relay-country.html) to blend in with, likely from more walks of life due to its relative ease of use. I2P, on the other hand, only has users in the tens of thousands. >https://metrics.torproject.org/userstats-relay-country.html >http://hctxrvjzfpvmzh2jllqhgvvkoepxb4kfzdjm6h7egcwlumggtktiftid.onion/userstats-relay-country.html "I'm anonymous, among the 5000 people living in this particular small town of the world." Random observer can deanonymize I2P's tradeoff is the node gets cover traffic, in exchange the IP address must be publicly listed and its status can be tracked. (I know of hidden mode but it's not perfectly hidden and it removes cover traffic.) Let's say the node has a power outage or internet downtime. Eepsite, IRC, torrent client go down at the same time as an I2P node. Or it could be the user naively restarting the node for an update. These are public events that allow I2P addresses and IPs to be connected by anyone. There's also the router ID that never changes and links different IP addresses. >I2P's anonymization is based on the attacker not being able to link tunnels and routers together. If I'm a floodfill router and I see a tunnel request a leaseset for an eepsite destination I can infer that whoever owns that tunnel is visiting that site. And if I'm able to trace it back to an i2p router then I can infer that the person running that router just visited that site. Web cookie Eepsites can track you by your node's static HTTP proxy address sent in the X-I2p-Destb32 header which only changes on node restart, it's the same across browser resets and across different browsers. All your browsing and accounts can be linked. It's trivial to log for the web server, no modified node required. I assume this address, once sent to an eepsite, can be queried until the client's node is shut down, to link it to an IP address. Torrent fingerprint Combination of torrents in a client is unique and public. You're fooling nobody by rotating torrent client identities if the torrent list before and after is similar. Global observer I2P and Tor don't protect against a global passive or active observer, which existed 10 years ago and exists today. In addition we should assume glowniggers can get most I2P private keys: >I'm a huge believer that self-hosting also means running it on hardware you control. If you run a P2P node on some VPS and think you're contributing to decentralization, you're a fool. >Finally, nothing private about a VPS: I have to assume data centers are crawling with spooks, and I have to assume they can not only tap the lines, but scan the RAM for any keys too. So they know the router identity and what destinations it has. When you host a P2P node on a VPS, you're basically gifting those spooks a node they can use to spy on the network, or even disrupt it, rent free I might add, while you pay for it like a cvck. They can passively monitor to detect end-to-end patterns, actively dump data into an I2P address to create a traffic spike, they can black out suspicious node IP addresses for a few minutes to see what eepsite goes down. If there's a download bandwidth limit set in I2PSnark, it can result in huge, regular bandwidth spikes. Glowniggers have all the data they need, it's a matter of sorting through it which gets easier as they get better and the network doesn't grow. Random active attacker Sybil attack. There are no guard nodes and no directory jannies like Tor. Get one bad tunnel out of thousands and it's over. There are effectively only a few thousand routers, the high bandwidth X and P ones that almost all tunnels are built through. Apparently there were crash packets at one point, these could create a bad shutdown on demand for a correlation attack. >I2P does profile which routers accept or decline tunnels. And since it builds tunnels through the routers that decline the least, in practice almost all the traffic goes through the high bandwidth X class routers. Easy for glowniggers, or anyone with cash, to create and maintain few hundred X routers. There is already the Chinese botnet and routers running on different ports of the same IP addresses. Team Development is dead, there's nothing novel, nobody works on the serious issues above. Java team randomly blocked Tor without a good reason: >>What's Tor got to do with it? Can't they send bad packets without Tor. >Yes. That's part of why blocking tor is not a very good idea. That and the collateral damage of banning people who provide bandwidth to both tor and i2p at the same time. Old dev 2023 beef with current team: >Hello guys, > >My real name is Zlatin Balevsky, I have a LinkedIn account and my Twitter is "zlatinb". I'm generally not that interesting person but I was a contributor the I2P project for about 10 years. I resigned for some not so interesting reasons. But I just came back very briefly a few days ago and oh boy was there some serious BULLSHIT going on behind the scenes there. If you want to find out what that is, read on: > >Some background: > >There are two major implementations of I2P - a Java one (https://geti2p.net) and a C++ one (https://i2pd.website). Since I know Java, I was contributing to the Java one. However, after what I saw the last few days, I say STAY THE fuarrrk AWAY from that one. Seriously, use the C++ one. It is more rough around the edges but if you care at all about actually being safe and private use that and do not look back. > >So, there is an IRC network inside I2P known as Irc2P. In fact, that's where pretty much all the action is. I'm going to paste some chat logs from the #i2p-dev channel inside the Irc2P network. If you want to verify that I'm not bullshitting you, they are also available at http://major.i2p/irc2p/i2p-dev/2023/01/18 (but you need to be running an I2P software to access this site.) IRC log isn't that interesting, e.g. >Just because you have been sitting on your fat ass for 10 years not doing a damn thing and collecting the money does not give you the righ to put bullshit woke statements on the website

>VPN that isn't gonna be fedded mad VPNs are run by Mossad and their 14 eyes friends. Trusted ones especially. Do you have any idea how juicy the top VPN services are? Most people of interest use them. They mark themselves by using Monero, they reveal their traffic and pay for the privilege. If intelligence didn't create the VPN company, they're inside with their spy tools or at a minimum they're watching and deanonymizing traffic. What, you think the NSA is like "they got away with it again sir, yes it's those pesky mullvad/proton/ivpn IPs again, we can't do anything gosh darn it"? VPNs are fine for torrents, region lock and ban bypass, hiding from nobodies like the ISP and Lainchan. Whatever you do will be in the Palantir database, then it's a question of social credit and priorities, maybe they'll make an example out of you or blackmail you into working for them someday. >but there's no proof >no court cases >look at the audits They don't build sources to burn them at the first drug market trial. They use the sources to find targets and then come up with other evidence. Parallel construction. Or disrupt the target without official action. We'll never know which services they run but sometimes we get a glimpse like Snowden and can guess their reach. The Snowden stuff over 10 years ago was partial and worse than what people imagine the situation is today. You don't think about it because most of you can't read and influencers don't force it on you. After Snowden everything outside your own FOSS operating system should be assumed to be an NSA operation, especially popular privacy and encryption services.

>>26988 obscura will route your traffic to mullvad servers like i said the benefit is that obscura can't see what you're doing and mullvad can't see who's doing. in theory, at least. they're still centralized companies and nothing stops them from colluding >>26989 as far as i know i2p never deployed actual "mixnet" properties of an actual mixnet (batching, delaying, etc). yes they have it on spec but nothing implemented seriously, tor and i2p are old. deep learning is destroying onion routing-based designs (see DeepCoFFeA, DeepCorr, SUMo, etc) it seems the state of art design for an anonymous communication network is a Loopix-based mixnet (see https://nym.com/nym-whitepaper.pdf). the downside is that cover traffic eats up bandwidth so if you don't have unlimited data, you can't use it effectively

>>26995 >blah blah blah All utter bullshit that you pulled straight outt of your ass. gtfo.

>>26993 Wow, I really thought I2P was an alternative to Tor since the Tor devs have been negligent of security, but reading this really makes me lose all hope that there's a way to stay anonymous and safe online. Lokinet and Freenet exist, but they're underwhelming in comparison to Tor or I2P.

>>26995 yeah and? tor is compromised as well, so what now? it will never be used against you because you'll die in your basement while having a trip. no one except their llms will ever know you existed, and the llms will soon erase from memory so you don't clog it. so i don't know why you butthurt

Mullvad is the #1 vpn out there its only 5$ a month and 4.5$ if paid in xmr it does not log and got proven by court there is not any other vpn thats better and you dont need to give any info to make a account it generates a account for you with a id

>>26863 https://kumu.io/Windscribe/vpn-relationships Pick anything that is not heavily and reasonable connected (mullvad is okay for example) and has audits with zero other issues (complied government requests are the most important). Also I would choose stealth proxy protocols over "real" VPN protocol like OpenVPN and WireGuard because of flexibility and less clumsiness.

consider paying in cash, it's more work to reconstruct the payment chain that way

>26880 >>>26863 >>TunnelBear >>Mullvad >Are you IntelBroker or what? my thought exactly xD

What do you guys think of DPNs like Deeper? Seems comfy to use, but can't know if they glow. They claim to be decentralized.

>>27270 I don't understand how this works. They claim to have 200000+ nodes worldwide. Are all those exit nodes? They don't have subscription fee, it's one-time purchase, how tf can they afford to rent and provide 200000+ servers without subscription fees? Maybe they're just reselling Tor, kek?

>>27272 Holy fuarrrking soykaf, read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/DeeperNetwork/comments/1nubxs2/is_there_a_way_to_stop_other_people_from_using_my/ Basically every device is an exit node, so your home internet becomes a public exit node for the whole network. > hmmm but what if someone does crimes from my ip, like.... downloading torrents? > crimes and torrents are not allowed, read the rules

>>26989 >Tor is also fedded out the ass and compromised. >links to some idiot being caught because he was using a super outdated vulnerable tor version lol

>>27274 no, at the time that criminal was caught in 2021, he was running the latest version of tor vanguards-lite, the algorithm used to give a better level of protection against guard discovery attacks (likely the attack method used) was added to tor on version 0.4.7 released in 2023 before 2023, you either had to download mike perry's vanguards python scripts or hand pick the middle nodes used by tor yourself if you wanted a better protection against guard discovery attacks that doesn't mean tor is "fedded" either, it's the tor design that's outdated

how about proton? but recently they had the journalist issue...

Just buy a cheap VPS and DIY. There's no guarantee VPS provider won't be spying on you, but it's much better than any VPN which are much more likely to be spied on.

>>26954 > i think he's implying he uses someone else's connection, like his neighbor's wi-fi Even if you know a neighbor to not be tech savvy wouldn't you be risking exposing your traffic to their ISP? Some use modems that do deep packet inspection and they also have their own DNS cache and their router can have a history of connected devices, right?

>>27274 >>27276 The forum's admin and moderators were exposed due to their use of the outdated Ricochet messenger. Had they chosen Ricochet Refresh and sidestepped other serious operational security mistakes, it would have been considerably harder to reveal their identities through Tor. http://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=Mzz6-mfevfs https://www.heise.de/en/news/Boystown-investigations-Catching-criminals-on-the-darknet-with-a-stopwatch-9904534.html

>https://windscribe.com/blog/the-vpn-relationship-map/ Good news lains, you don't have to worry anymore about which vpn to choose, it turns out most vpns are actually just a front for the same company anyway.

https://lowendbox.com/ get a cheap vps and install wireguard on it, takes like 5 minutes

are these people who tell you to buy a vps just idiots who bought into it, or paid agents distributing false information? what is even the fuarrrking point of using a vps as a vpn when you virtually have no way of paying anonymously? do you live in china or wtf

>>27355 For me the main point of it all always was hiding my traffic from my neighbours who MITM my cables, from my ISP, and from intelligence agencies of my country. The biggest threat are those nearby, not some glowing 3letter gayniggurath overseas.

>>27360 yeah but i'm in eu these niggers cooperate with each other and routing my traffic to us and back is just gonna slow it down like fuarrrking hell.

>>27296 no, these attacks happened in or before 2021. at the time, he was using the most up to date version of tor, and the version of richochet didn't matter really. before tor 0.4.7 (released in 2022), the only way to protect against guard discovery attacks was by running mike perry's python implementation of vanguards or selecting the middle nodes yourself (and tor project has always discouraged messing with torrc, so it scares people into hardening it) again, guard discovery is the supposed attack vector, but it remains a hypothesis only as it hasn't been confirmed the way tor project handled this news was very disappointing to say the least. the reality is that tor's design failed, for well known reasons. i hope nym becomes more popular because if the future of private routing is tor, then we are screwed

>>27362 >the version of richochet didn't matter https://github.com/ricochet-im/ricochet/releases/tag/v1.1.4 >Tor 0.2.8.9

>>27228 >proven by court The logs are stored on a different server in another country. The US/Israeli glowies will not sacrifice their honeypot for every random criminal. This raid was an advertisement for the honeypot. And it seems, people are falling for it. Is this story too crazy? Considering the crazy things the US glowies have done in the past, nothing is crazy. Beside that, why do all ecelebs on Youtube wage slave for Mullvad? Let me add this: This is exactly the same reason, why some people say Graphene is safe: THE MEDIA TOLD ME! These "privacy products" are a massive psyop. >>27296 >Ricochet No, it's Tor https://marx.wtf/2024/10/10/law-enforcement-undermines-tor/ https://www.dw.com/de/daniel-mo%C3%9Fbrucker-immer-mehr-tor-knoten-werden-%C3%BCberwacht/a-70322301 >More and more Tor relays in Germany are under surveillance for longer and longer periods, in such a way that apparently data has been used for timing analysis >Deanonymization takes some time. Tor users are not deanonymized by the authorities in the blink of an eye >Not only Ricochet is affected, but twice also normal v3 Onion Services >Timing analyses was always possible when, to put it simply, there was „little traffic“ on an onion service and only a few packets were transmitted, which could then be assigned to a specific user. On whistleblowing platforms, there is usually little traffic until a source decides to submit data >The journalists first reached out to Ricochet in July 2023, mentioning cases of deanonymization of Tor users by revealing their entry relays. Ricochet immediately informed the Tor Project

You know I wonder now that onionland has been cleared of opportunistic cybercriminals if the glowies are gonna go after dissidents and thoughtcriminals.

Does anyone know if the IP pool from ProtonVPN changes with time or is just the same IP pool forever?

>>27385 Changes with time. Depends on the lease agreement for servers they rent and on the ISP for servers they own.

vouch for TOR and Riseup, both completely free, not free is proton and mullvad. just use one (or more (but not at the same time)) of these

>>27385 You can pick particular servers from particular countries. In my experience some of them become permanently unavailable over time, but new ones appear and are added to the end of the list of their country. If you just connect randomly, yeah the pool changes, but there are a lot of ways to connect, including downloading openvpn or wireguard config for specific server.

>>26868 UK is attempting to take the crown!

Mullvad for the win. Definitely. Do some research yourself though.

>>26863 There are a few ways. You create your own Tor. Or You get 3 VPS' run wireguard with QUIC and bounce the traffic between the 3. Like proxy chaining. Then just rotate VPS locations.

>>27392 The issue with rise up is they have already been pressed and caved before (admittedly because they had to) but they still caved and not only that there is still a connection to you and the VPN.

>>28050 average anarchists fold under a gentle breeze

>>26869 It's impossible to prove that the vast majority of TOR nodes are not controlled by networked governments. >>26879 Using your neighbor's connection doesn't count. >>26954 >nym It's a bit cumbersome but I think we will need to encourage people to consider it more in the coming months, if only to make sure people have a good variety of alternatives to onion and VPNs. >>26992 The issue with Tor is why would poor as fuarrrk people even bother or spend resources to run nodes, and more over, how could they compete against actors with vaster resources?

>>26866 Thank you! That only leaves the matter of anonymously obtaining some Monero and an email

>>28295 > [T]he matter of anonymously obtaining some Monero Look at Haveno and Bisq. Haveno itself is a protocol for running a marketplace, the largest market so far is RetoSwap. There is no *official* Haveno network, any network that claims thus is a scam (hence why I specified the *largest* market, not the *official* one). Bisq is self explanatory, go to the Bisq website, download the client, use the software. If you don't want to muck about with proxying everything through Tor I suggest using a Tails Live USB and installing everything on there. > Email Sign up for a cock.li email address (free), then use it to register for an email forwarding service such as SimpleLogin or AnonAddy. Side note, the best VPN providers don't require any personal information for you to sign up beyond a payment method, and even then are willing to accept an envelope of cash in the form of payment. So of the list of providers from >>26866 the providers that fit these criteria are: - Mullvad - IVPN - Cryptostorm (accepts XMR, does not require email for signup) There are other VPNs listed here: http://kikurizsbpb7ar4ozrzogt6nre3j7s7mccqwxeg3jvppyik2aa475lqd.onion/books/vpns-and-proxies/page/list-of-vpn-providers

Do the anonymizing network even bother running safe and salty bots that are just there to occupy IPs and create more noise as a cover, or are they really counting on plugged meatbags to populate them? >>27270 Looks like a kickstarter scam. >>27273 What's their network size? For the network to be worthy of anything they had to have a critical mass at start. So when did they advertize for their toy? And how? >>27299 >https://kumu.io/Windscribe/vpn-relationships#vpn-company-relationships/ziff-davis-media >Zillah Byng-Thorne >Ziff Davis Media >Centerfield >Owner: Jason Cohen And all the >Based: Canada lel >Nord >[1] Extensively linked to Tesonet (a data-mining, analytics, SEO, targeted marketing). NordVPN initially denied these claims but confessed at a later date they were linked. >>27372 >The journalists first reached out to Ricochet in July 2023, mentioning cases of deanonymization of Tor users by revealing their entry relays. Ricochet immediately informed the Tor Project Any other issues of that kind we should know of?

而家喺中國同俄羅斯只有兩個協議可以運作，佢哋係歇斯底里2同 vmess/vless + 現實。佢哋亦都喺有限嘅 IP 池上面工作；每個商業 VPN 服務，同埋 hetzner 等常見嘅寄存網絡都被禁止。佢哋而家將 AI 連接咗去 DPI ，同埋可以大致偵測到你幾時用 VPN ，所以而家將正常嘅網站遮蓋為交換 TLS 流量係好常見。由一小組人製作嘅流氓 VPN 服務，有時甚至係一個人簡單噉維護一堆 VPS ，變得極其普遍，因為集中式商業 VPN 服務係有風險同唔可靠嘅。基本上所有商業服務都係 VPN「蛇油」。西方世界而家喺呢方面享受緊自由，但正如俄羅斯所證明，同埋所有通過嘅網上年齡驗證法都證明，呢種自由係脆弱嘅 好容易失去。