Breaking into CyberSec

Lainnons, do you need a college degree to ascertain a mid level cybersec job? One that would pay at least 50-60k in a medium COL area? I am starting from absolute scratch, perhaps a bit more understanding of how to navigate a ui than a normal person. A relative familiarity with technology at a very surface level. An ability to self teach and familiarity with the culture as I’ve been online a lot of my life. But alas, I have no college degree and no real skills. I am mid twenties.

I am wondering if I can still make it. I have a general interest in tech/hacker culture. I’m just degree less. I know there are bootcamps and certs I can get. What I do not want is to land some lame ass IT Helpdesk role after paying for a bootcamp. I’d want a real position off the bat, not 3 years of IT at a middle school as a disrespected wageslave. I'd rather be a semi-respected wageslave at a soulless for profit corp.

I'm probably gonna start with the Google cybersecurity cert to get a foundational understanding/credential for some entry-level position, then work my way up with the CEH or OSCP or something. Unfortunately the Google cert alone probably won't earn a high-level position in a SOC team or anything like that. I had talked to someone who works in the field as a project manager, they said that a college degree does help. I've also heard elsewhere that they don't play a super significant role, so I'm not sure to be honest. I'm gonna bookmark this thread and come back later since I'm also in a similar position. It probably doesn't hurt to have a college degree, but it's quite the financial/time investment. I assume networking and having something to show, such as a blog or a github also plays a role.

>>21864 I'm going to be real with you my anon. It is very unlikely you're going to get a mid level Cyber Sec job that's going to pay probably above average. The reality you should set yourself is that you will either hit one of the below. >Get a Grad Cyber role in a company. I find this unlikely as you don't have a degree, every hiring manager will just put those with Degrees in front of you >Field Tech or Sysadmin role. I expect that low/middle IT Services role is likely. >IT Service Desk The main problem is that you're starting off at a low bar and then kneecapping yourself, you need to show that you can be above the rest and if you can't then meet the recycling bin. I did my degree, I got a grad role in Cyber Security and proceed to climb. You need to do the same. Some thought's on potentially doing this. >Certs help, they don't match experience but they do show commitment. >>21865 Avoid CEH. Pick anything else. >Github / Start just doing soykaf. Try and contribute in some way so you can show something. Make yourself visible. >Linkedin / Connections gathering. Seen a few people do this and work mildly well. But find people in the Cyber industry, add them and advertise yourself. This can also be quite annoying so don't push people to hard. >A job is a job. Experience is Experience. If someone walks into my office asking for a job with no experience and another person walks in with Service desk experience. I'm talking to him first. >Controversial opinion, but recruiters jobs are to find you a job. Make them work, to get you the right job. Lastly, looking for a job is a full time job. If you don't treat it as such, it'll treat you the same way.

>>21868 It's hard to accept a soykaf IT role when I have already made far above that income doing self employment in a tertiary field of security that does work with a bit of social engineering and finding exploits within a system. Which in reality does not really transfer over to the tech industry that much but I'll probably include it on my cv and play up the aspects that are similar as much as I can. I believe I'd get better faster in a real role as well. If I pay for a bootcamp it seems as though they would also help me find a job. What's also funny is that I hear cybersec is overrun by normal people anyways these days, infosec normal people. You know the type. How much better can infosec normal people be than me if I tried hard for 6 months? I imagine trying hard for 6 months of self learning would be better than a 4 year degree in marketing or whatever infosec normal people are into. I'm feeling irreverent. Just looking quickly at indeed for 10 minutes, I do feel like finding an even halfway decent job will be one of the hardest parts. Though supposedly the industry is 'growing'. Anon I appreciate your honesty.

>>21870 The person I talked to has connections to a few companies - they could possibly help get me in touch with them and vouch a little if I build up some credentials, but it doesn't feel morally right since one of those companies they do/did work for is DarkMatter (The person wasn't involved in Project Raven as far as I'm able to tell). I wouldn't wanna work for them. Also, is LinkedIn really that important to making connections? It looks like an absolute clusterfuck of a site with a bunch of unhinged people who think that poverty is a choice or other out of touch BS, not to mention the inherent privacy issues of using the platform itself. Since I have no work experience in the field, I'll probably have to suffer through systems administration or entry-level IT soykaf for a while unfortunately, I guess there's no way around it. I'm just really hesitant to apply to college since I didn't do well in highschool, I didn't even pass the one programming course I tried doing because it didn't make sense to me and I just stopped going so IDK if I could make it through the courses, not to mention its confusing as soykaf to figure out - which ones I would actually need, requirements for specific courses etc. IDK how this college soykaf works :/ >>21868 I looked more into CEH and from what I can tell, people see it as a pointless certification from a problematic company. I'll steer clear of it, maybe I'll go for CISSP or something from Cisco, I'll have to do more digging. Eventually an OSCP cert would be vital for advanced positions but I am nowhere near that level right now, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

>>21873 I feel like you think you're a lot more intelligent than you really are.

>>21884 The online IQ test I took said I ranked 195, so I must be a smart fella!

>>21873 >Also, is LinkedIn really that important to making connections? It's not. You can network on IT conferences and meetups. Conferences are infested with recruiters, so simply walk around stands and talk with people: who they are looking for, what they need, what tech they are using, what would you need to learn. If you're half-competent you can get a few decent offers in a matter of days; otherwise you will get a lot of insight on how to become competent enough to actually get these offers. It's direct and effective.

>>21888 Linkedin is useful if you don't spend 100% of your time actively looking for new jobs and just want people to contact you when new jobs are available. "Just go to conferences" sounds like LARPy advice not even you live by.

>>21864 Im entry level, but make $50k-$60k/lcol. No degree, but i got in on a recommendation from a buddy with 10+ years industry experience. Lots of experience doing hobby programming and server admin too, and some basic IT and networking stuff to boot. I think thats really gonna be the thing that gets people in: connections and networking to get the interview + demonstrable skill to pass the interview. Off the street, i dont think most people with no experience could do mid level work. Not trying to be a dick, its just a lot of stuff at L2 or similar will need a lot of product knowledge you may not have at this point + comfort communicating it. You may also be expected to do volume of work that you just wouldnt be able to accomplish being new.

>>21873 >maybe I'll go for CISSP CISSP is a senior level cert that needs 5 years of industry experience to even take. Keep that in mind.

This whole board is teenagers and retards trying to code for money. Certifications and degrees, industrial cocksucking. Repulsive soykaf, where are the hackers?

>>21910 At some point you get tired of being poor and not being able to do soykaf with your life because of it. I think a lot of us are in that boat at the moment and it's hard to work on the fun stuff when you're drowning. Sage'd

>>21911 Sure but lainchain for discussion like this seems so disappointing. Counterculture is dead

>>21913 >Counterculture is dead Yeah, it died of starvation, dude You can't hack the world forever, people need happiness, families, children, stability

>>21914 >>21911 It's a different lifestyle but huge amounts of money is certainly available. Being a corporate slave is the sure way to stay stuck in the rat race

>>21910 I mean... yeah. It's almost like money is an extremely important thing that we depend on to literally live. I don't know about you, but I'd rather do something that allows me to buy food and pay for a place to live instead of committing crimes for the sake of "hacktivism" to spread some social or political message people won't give a soykaf about in 2 months anyway.

>>21917 Even despite that, the site's got almost no actual hobbyist content of any kind. Either it's idiots going "oh my god I astral projected in my dreams guys" or someone asking what programming language to choose. There's nothing for anyone who's ever actually learned something. Entry level is already an exaggeration. If the site's about the cyberpunk, maybe people there ought to fuarrrking have any interest in any of it! Even if they do have actual jobs. Suffering from the same problem as the entire rest of the internet: everything is catered to the absolute beginner who'll never learn anything. Twitter's more insightful.

>>21919 Make a post on something you're knowledgeable in then.

>>21921 I think they would just rather bitch about seeing stuff they don't like on some niche message board cuz that's easy to do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>21917 >committing crimes for the sake of "hacktivism" Commit crimes for money.

>>21936 Commit crimes for money so you can fund your hacktivist goals! https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/malaslocker-ransomware-targets-zimbra-servers-demands-charity-donation/

>>21913 >knowing that the 2010's hacking scene will never happen again and that all hacking is now is just yuppies trying to sell their new startup.

>>22017 Be the change you want to see in the world anon

t took me three years of relentless effort to break into the cybersecurity field, and the journey was undoubtedly challenging and exhausting. However, the rewards were well worth it. >interested in hacking since watching the movie hackersand Iron Man when i was in elematry 2008.

Always wanted to be a hacker since I was a kid. >2016 Fast forward to college year. Dad gets hurt and sick loses job. Fight company for worker comp Do community college. Fail classes and drop out for a semester. Get furlough from part-time job Family house goes into foreclosure Mom gets sued. Realized I have undiagnosed ADD. Realized I am doomed to Dream big but never had the ability to actualize my dreams. Become a human guinea pig to get prescriptions and money. Realize my only pathway out is education and computer. Hustle my ass off. >2020 Transferred to a university and decide to commit to doing IT/Cybersecurity. The pandemic started, shifting everything online. Dad wins case and now has a secure home. Obtained a prescription for ADD medication. GPA skyrocketed, earning a scholarship. Built an e-commerce website and worked on projects. Applied for IT internships without certifications. Learned about SANS Scholarship program and applied despite doubts. 2021 Secured an internship offer from a logistics company. Received a call, winning the SANS scholarship, realizing it was a chance to achieve childhood dreams. Endured a year of internship and SANS program while attending school. Completed SANS certifications. Offered $50k/year for IT support position. Absorbed extensive IT knowledge due to colleagues quitting. Created a portfolio of school IT and coding projects. Engaged in a capstone project sponsored by a Cybersecurity Company. Gained proficiency in Python and SQL. Led IT tech responsibilities, spearheading migrations and phishing program. Graduated in FALL 2022 with B.S. IT degree, 3 Certs, and 2 years of IT experience. 2023 Apply for Cybersec analyst jobs with limited success. Rebuilt resume and used ChatGPT for cover letters and applications. Secured an interview with a finance firm after several attempts. Used ChatGPT to craft an elevator pitch. Aced the 1+ hour interview, Offered a position with a $70k salary.

>>21919 Name me one imageboard that's not like this. People see the anonymity and think in a nutshell: "I've finally found that cool counterculture I've seen in fictional media! I can finally be cool now!" and start posting edgy soykaf. Or at least that has been my experience using them off and on for damn near 2 decades. It always brings in the people who want to say all the dumb soykaf they couldn't say in real life. So many times I've seen dumb posts on techboards. People going over the top and beyond to secure their OS based on factoid memes they heard. I will never forget that there was legitimately a time where 8chan's tech board was test running North Korea's North Star Linux fork under the idea that it must be super secure. GUESS WHAT? IT HAD SPYWARE. Some anon literally had to announce "DON'T USE IT GUYS!" Poe's Law is a real time thing on imageboards. There was another time where they just assumed that the free software foundations fork of firefox was more secure...despite barely knowing anything about this fork. Then someone from the foundation, maybe it was even RMS himself, chimed in that the fork was under-maintained. And don't forgot all the emotionally charged people who assume some software of project will be garbage because they don't agree with the authors political opinions. I don't know how much has changed because I haven't used imageboards as much since 2016, but from all the memories I have, people will believe a lot of dumb soykaf on imageboards. More likely than not you are best finding information in all the "free" available books to download online. If you can find the right book, that's the best way to spend your time.

>>22045 You're not wrong. One of the coolest experiences I've had online in the past 10 years was when I found an ssh 'board' where you could write your own short stories in these sorts of sprawling html paths. It was full of a this very pretentious Yume Nikki style existential type stuff, but it felt more honest than most of the internet. It's a shame a large userbase of these 'niche' pages are people who are just sad and angry. The only thing different here compared to reddit is that people say 'nigger' a lot more. I go to dread and it's just reddit with no one in it. Unironically I consistently have many interesting technical conversations on Discord. The exclusivity overrides all else. However, I admit the e-scooter thievery thread is actually good fun, even if it lacks tech focus- mostly just fumbling with circuits they don't understand, but hey, it's fun and it's real. Not that I'm an expert- I have a /math/ degree, but I always want to learn. And want to contribute to something, because what we really need online these days is community beyond the social media soykafholes.

>>21919 It was not like this, but unfortunately as you said, the whole internet is like this right now. Visiting this site from time to time you will see something cool, but it becomes even more rare. Everything is tuned to engage with "huge ego small brain" beginner, that considers 20 lines of code enough to claim that knows a language. As I respect people who work, hence I also have a job, I think that this is not the place for beginners to ask for work. Honestly stack overflow has sections full of this info. Seems like most of the users are new, not familiar with Lain or anything, and most of the old users left or just come from time to time to be disappointed.

>>22045 Most of the things you are saying about imageboards, could be said about social media sites too, the difference is that these sites ban wrongthink, so these tend to accumulate in imageboards. >>22046 Not to mention that it's full of skids. I see more people who know what they are doing on mainstream sites like reddit than on dread. Dread is mainly just a site for stoners to go and check what marketplaces are scamming atm, when a marketplace is compromised etc. Not to mention that it's down about 50% of the time. Glad it exists and is still alive, but for now it's just not good, unfortunately.

>>21908 >>21873 https://www.isc2.org/Certifications/CISSP/experience-requirements I've been a developer for 4 years, and think this is really,really dumb gatekeeping. Like Mensa, but somehow worse

>>22063 >really,really dumb gatekeeping Could you elaborate?

>>22066 i think they mean it contributes to the "need a job to get experience, need experience to get a job" chicken-egg problem. a certification like that is meant to help you get hired, but how will you get hired without a well-regarded certification? i think they argue that the ability to get certification shouldnt be dictated by an arbitrary number of years of experience

>>22063 As long as you can say you've been functioning in two of the eight domains for 5 years (or 4 + related bachelor's degree) and have proof of consecutive employment, your endorser will be able to sign off on it after you pass. Simply ensuring that you're following secure coding practices is one domain. Any networking in your development? There's your second domain. t. CISSP

>>22045 8chan is just a place for neonazis and qanon types to vomit on their keyboards and convince themselves they are saving the world. Hearing that they unironically thought using RS was a good idea is hilarious but not at all surprising to me. the FSF is soykaf nowdays. they don't actually do anything besides organize talks and meetups so they can "spread" the word of free software to people who already agree with them. if anything, i see fsf endorsement as a potential red flag because it can mean removing basic security patches or having soykafty maintenance for the sake of "freedom." is like kicking dead whales down the beach too, theyre right about how software is fuarrrked. >>22046 discord tends to have more interesting tech conversations because there are significantly less people who are busy being deliberately edgy by saying slurs every 3 words... ah who am i kidding, its discord.. For real though, there are some legitimately great spaces on discord where stuff is actively moderated to keep discussions focused and respectful. sure you end up with more noobs asking silly questions or people pretending to be smarter than they are, but for me its worth it compared to having to deal with anons who just cant resist making it obvious how much of a bigot they are. "how do you do, fellow racists?" type of energy As a platform itself, discord is horrible though, which is a shame.

>>21910 it's like this everywhere. discussion is always about anything BUT hacking or security just how do i become a comfy corporate cocksuckers. cybersecurity people are cringe midwits, hackers have the skills and don't really care about selling out. best hackers i know don't hack as a profession.

>>22822 unfortunately, we live in the wonderful world of late-stage capitalism, where people need money to continue existing and the only way to get it is to kiss the feet of corporations. if we had, oh idk, a good universal basic income for instance, maybe we could do fun stuff without worrying about starving to death!

>>22822 i believe that, but how the hell do they live?

>>22040 Wonderful story anon. Your story is kind of similar to my own. You make me want to keep pushing forward. I needed to read something like this today.

>>21864 no, all it takes to get in is passion. I barely graduated hs, flunked out of community college, never got a single cert, and now I'm a professional reverse engineer in my mid-late 20s

>>21913 >Counterculture is dead it became the primary culture anon...... what did you expect?

>>22040 All that to land a 70k a year job huh? Why was it so hard to land an interview with all that experience? I thought the industry was lacking skilled people, and there you are with credentials and it's still hard to even get an interview? Someone else called this story uplifting, I call it blackpilling.

>>23435 >take meds >abuse AI >be grateful it is blackpilling indeed.

>>22040 >>23435 >be white >get racially profiled as an autistic racist >passed over in interviews for Jose who no hable ingles At least I still have my white privileged.

>>22040 Lainanin, how did you gain proficiency in Python/SQL (any specific courses you used?) And what SANS certs did you get? I have RHCE but can't find anything...

>>23435 >>23436 Haha when you put it like that it does sound fuarrrking dystopian. >I got the ADD meds by doing Clinical Trials >Was able to pay for dates with my GF by being a human lab rat >Worked at call center where I recruited people for Clinical studies - also to get inside knowledge how it all works >Dads former employer send PI to investigate/Stalk/Harass him in his workers compensation case >Using l my Federal student loans to pay for parents mortgage to keep it from going into foreclosure >Exploits pandemic to boost GPA to receive scholarship since my dads and lack of income is not reflected on fafsa yet. >Utilize new untested AI's to become to perfect candidate and beat corpo ATS systems I think about it all like this: IF i did not do any of that soykaf years ago, i would still be at my call center job making 16 bucks a hour complaining about how soykafty and unfair the world is. The real blackpill was for me to sit at my call center jobs and hope,pray and dream of better life.Never being able to actualize my dreams and goals. Its a matter of perspective. Regardless of how hard it was, or how long it took . It is always worth it. To go from depressed and broke , to happy and 40k+ in savings is amazing . 70k is no money at all you are correct. However my pay only goes up from here on out. My current job is paying from my GCFA and other certs. I job hop every 2-3 years , soooo my next job I am aiming for 100k+ and so on. Use every tool at your disposal , because fun fact others will. I went to college full of asians , there taking advantage of all systems/process/loophole available to make sure they get ahead. The world is becoming more competitive and expensive everyday.Im just trying to set my self up before the actual black pilled future of eternal slavery commences.

>>23743 No real course , just making automations and small programs that can be used in real life.Also that are easy for any IT tech to use. Like creating a python script that retrieves all new hire positions & names, parse the names into company email format, Pull there position and start date then based off my new hire matrix , shows what type of device ,licenses, and Sharepoint groups they require .

>>22063 Studying for it now. Imo, the gatekeeping mechanisms are what make it valuable. Without them, all the cert proves is that you can brute force memorize a bunch of terminology. Thats not much better than a comptia cert. With the gatekeep, you prove that the cert holder has worked in a security adjacent field for a while and has industry connections enough to get a sponsor. Really i think all of the more valuable certs have a "gimmick" like this that provides a value-add beyond showing test-taking ability. OSCP being a practical exam i think is another example of a "gimmick" like this that makes the cert more valuable than mere knowledge-testing.

Can anyone give me some recommendations on where I should head next to further pursue a career in infosec? Currently have Net+, Sec+, Az-900, HTB-CSDA Don't have a college degree of any sort, Haven't had any traditional experience in IT (like help desk) Im thinking that I should lower my expectations and get a help desk role somwhere that would have upward mobility and do the WGU meme and try to speed run a cybersecurity degree. Let me know if you have any advice or modifications to my plan, have been putting in 30 applications a day so far and all of the listings make me feel underqualified due to needing a college degree or 3 years exp in a soc for all the soc roles Im applying for

>>24017 Get it support or held desk role at company that is not a MSP . Else you will be working in sweat shop. Sit there for two years , get more experience and certs AND do cybersecurity projects (related ) . You’ll be more then qualified for a cyber role then . It’s a marathon not a sprint .

>>22844 we're really at the point where people learning to hack dont know how to make money with hacking as a blackhat?

>>24031 I have an interview with a MSP next week, are there any other reasons I would not want to work there other than it being a sweat shop? I have a portfolio that I'm currently submitting projects to. right now some of the ones I have are Splunk, Wireshark, some python tools, bash automation and digital forensics (setting up work station and investigating MFT) some pishing analysis etc. I will continue working on cybersecurity projects and have applied to WGU. Trying to see what's up with transfer credits and everything related to that. Thank you for lending some guidance its appreciated