do you actually care about privacy?

How far do you go to take your privacy? are you concern about other individuals or state actors/corpo? At this point I feel that I am more concerned about nation states and corporations abusing the general population by collecting their data and using it for manipulation, than any one individual. Posting about this may be somewhat contradictory, but can you share any tips about how you protect yourself? How do you feel about those abusing the data they collect?

Yes. I largely avoid anything that watches users and sandbox it if I have to use it.

I use Tor safest for most of my daily web browsing, except for things that actually need to know who I am anyway (i.e. banking) and for very simple tasks (i.e. reading an article from my rss list), and for the most part only use my phone as a phone. Regarding the systemic issue, I plan on hosting a Tor node to help at least a little bit.

>>19326 I kinda use my need for privacy to fuel my passion for learning technology, programming, finding FOSS alternatives. recently I didn't even think about "agh, they collect X data about me" but maybe at this point I am giving out so little it doesn't matter to me... (kinda doing it for sports I guess) over the last 2 years I found myself slowly "going down the rabbit hole" and going to the more private way of consuming the internet. I stopped having a smartphone and I only use a dumb phone (would give up my phone entirely if I didn't have a job), stopped reading the news, stopped using ANY social media (hurr, chans are social media fuarrrk off). I like to think that I prefer my privacy over comfort. I honestly care more about big corpo collecting my data. I think that in the future they will hold more power then official governments with guns (mostly through controlling the population through propaganda) and people will be tamed to like it. the government might have guns but they are (at least in my opinion) not as adept in technology as the people who literally make living from collecting and selling user data. honestly the best tip for anyone willing to throw away this leech that follows them and collects all their data the best tip that I could give is just not be pessimistic about it. its not black and white and you will spend a lot of time in the grey zone. but every change that you embrace will open up your mind a little bit for a newer and more private change google > duck duck go > searx for example. when I started this journey I didn't think and was frankly afraid of hosting and taking care of my computers but when you get deeper you are just more open for these changes and whatever it takes to implement them.

no. i think that is a war that was lost before i was born

Not much anymore. I use QubeOS and use Qubes-Whonix for my daily browsing but I drive a car (plate detection, titles, drivers license facial recognition reverse search etc), use an Iphone, pay lot of things with a card as opposed of cash, use online stores with my actual name and address in a regular basis, etc. I used to go for schizo levels of privacy with dumbphone stored in a faraday bag, using only cash and with a Kicksecure distribution but in past half year I have become more and more apathetic about privacy.

>>19326 >I honestly care more about big corpo collecting my data. I think that in the future they will hold more power then official governments with guns (mostly through controlling the population through propaganda) and people will be tamed to like it. the government might have guns but they are (at least in my opinion) not as adept in technology as the people who literally make living from collecting and selling user data. I think we're at that point now. Google's culture bleeding onto the general population is no coincidence. Corpos like this one have been pushing their agendas for a while using their platforms. >no. i think that is a war that was lost before i was born like the previous reply said it's not all black and white. You can always hold a degree of privacy but definitely not even near fully private.

>>19326 >At this point I feel that I am more concerned about nation states and corporations abusing the general population by collecting their data and using it for manipulation, than any one individual. That used to be a logical position to take. Now the situation is that your data, that was once only available to nation states, can now be available to local law enforcement, local businesses, potential employers, the tech at your local ISP, the list is endless. Newsflash - if you're applying for any kind of secure job they will be running some kind of private investigator/commercial intel scan on your history. There are people who will do this for all their personal interactions. Nation states frequently pass individual data collected at the cloud level to local authorities in friendly jurisdictions. Privacy has probably never been more important.

...I don't want to be spreading discouragement, so will give a mitigation strategy. Disconnect from the 3G LTE 5G network. You don't need to be online 247. With a little planning and a pocketful of cheap wifi adapters it's possible to hop between wifi networks during the day with an x86 tablet. ngl tho, I do carry a battery router with with usb lte modem for emergencies. Yes, this takes a little effort and planning and thinking.

literally same as this anon >>19331. went schizo levels of privacy, but its mostly not worth it to go too far. you have to remember, corps are a profit making machine, if you place just enough hurdles to their data collection tactics then it no longer becomes profitable to look at your data (they still will, but it will come at their own cost). use separate emails, pay in cash, dont log into services unless you need to, use tor whenever you can, use adblock, disable javascript, dont provide any easy link between accounts in any way. with indepth analysis, someone can still link the accounts together with enough certainty, but they won't be able to do it automatically. the automatic linking is what gives most corps power, since (rev of selling linked data > cost of collecting and linking). there is a sweet spot where your data is too scattered and too limited to be worthwhile, while also not costing you a lot of time. target that level of privacy, ignore the schizos who tell you to live in the woods or some crap (I would have been one of those schizos a few years ago). its not worth it and just makes the corps stronger

>>19336 Echo this. As far as I'm concerned, any further limitation would make completely abandoning my use of the internet a better value proposition than keeping up this cat and mouse game towards fully optimized privacy. There are bigger problems in the world. My current use don't leave much, and what is there should only make an inaccurate and rudimentary digital twin. That doesn't even take into consideration physical privacy, which much of I am not willing to do.

my privacy game used to be stronger, but as the entities that b made it more and more difficult to obtain privacy, and many services are linked with day-to-day activities, i've mildly given up. for example my siblings do not care and would rather use ad-ridden spyware rather than sms (i know its not secure, but its better than fuarrrking snapchat) to communicate. i love my bf to death, but even he is a "i got nothin to hide" guy. i'm unskilled at debate and can never get him to understand why i believe this isn't a good mentality to have, and it seems so stupid that it's a matter of debate to begin with. even if i go out of my way to protect my privacy, some data about me is still going to be leaked out via family, even if most of that data is tied to their profile. the problem at large is people don't value their privacy, or don't comprehend the degree it's being infringed, and not having control of your data is the norm. agree with the op and >>19337 : the "cat and mouse game" is tiring. my privacy routine now is more around giving as little data that can yield profit specifically to big tech pimps.

Yes. I am only one individual and virtually powerless to stop the immense power of corporations making their technologies standard in many industries and peer pressure brought about by those same corporations campaigns of social engineering. Even if I am forced to comply with any privacy policies and use any privacy technologies, I still care about privacy.

>How far do you go to take your privacy? are you concern about other individuals or state actors/corpo? I'm only concerned about corpos. I doubt the state or others would give a soykaf if they learned the "worst" thing I do online, piracy. >How do you feel about those abusing the data they collect? Annoyed. I use uBlock so when I have to use their site (mainly for medical and banking) I can actually load the site because all of those ads and trackers make using some sites utter hell to load, let alone view. Besides why do they even need the data? I block ads so it's not like whatever consumer product they're pushing publicly will be viewed by me.

>>19343 >Besides why do they even need the data? I block ads so it's not like whatever consumer product they're pushing publicly will be viewed by me. Relevant ads are far from being the only reason for extensive data collection by companies. To me, the scariest way that they use it is for profiling (but i believe this is already well documented, do your own research) and computing "scores" for people (ie. financial credit score in the US, social credit score in China, etc..), ultimately using your data against you as a form of social or financial control.

>>19338 >i'm unskilled at debate and can never get him to understand why i believe this isn't a good mentality to have have you tried to make an argument using examples from history? I can't think of any others right now but for instance how nazi germany made a bunch of people suddenly illegal. >Yes. I am only one individual and virtually powerless to stop the immense power of corporations making their technologies standard in many industries and peer pressure brought about by those same corporations campaigns of social engineering. Even if I am forced to comply with any privacy policies and use any privacy technologies, I still care about privacy. >>19343 >>How do you feel about those abusing the data they collect? Annoyed. I use uBlock so when I have to use their site (mainly for medical and banking) I can actually load the site because all of those ads and trackers make using some sites utter hell to load, let alone view. Besides why do they even need the data? I block ads so it's not like whatever consumer product they're pushing publicly will be viewed by me. >>19345 >Relevant ads are far from being the only reason for extensive data collection by companies. To me, the scariest way that they use it is for profiling (but i believe this is already well documented, do your own research) and computing "scores" for people (ie. financial credit score in the US, social credit score in China, etc..), ultimately using your data against you as a form of social or financial control. I agree with all these points. I have arrived at the conclusion that my privacy efforts are nothing more than an expression of civil disobedience. We can't completely escape big brother, but we can try to make it too expensive to collect individuals' data.

The thing to remember is all that data that we thought would be anonomized in the cloud, safe in some data centre somewhere, it's now available to your local authority figure. Landlord, boss, cop, town council, co-worker can now all access data about you if they are rich or motivated enough. It's come home. That's why privacy is more important than ever.

>>19347 >have you tried to make an argument using examples from history? I can't think of any others right now but for instance how nazi germany made a bunch of people suddenly illegal. I don't think you need historical examples because the concept is sound. In 10 years time Joseph Mao Hitler could take over your country in a military coup and use all the data that has been collected on citizens to decide who goes into the gas chambers. Then you'll wish you had used a VPN. >>19343 >I'm only concerned about corpos. I doubt the state or others would give a soykaf The state is the only thing that can inflict violence on you. The worst thing a corp can do is not sell you soykaf (and hurt their own profits in the process).

>>19338 You have to convince people that even though Big Brother may not be interested in them personally or as an individual they are certainly interested in larger patterns of information which include us, and it's... I don't know... our civic duty(?) to act responsibly. >>19362 >The state is the only thing that can inflict violence on you. This is so beyond wrong I don't know where to begin. Even the premise that the only inflictions possible are physical violence. There are plenty of other people and entities capable of using your data against you in innumerable ways.

>>19345 >To me, the scariest way that they use it is for profiling (but i believe this is already well documented, do your own research) and computing "scores" for people (ie. financial credit score in the US, social credit score in China, etc..), ultimately using your data against you as a form of social or financial control. Theres also the fact that the information is used to control people's minds and opinions. Leaked facebook research showed that rage content drove higher engagement, so they pushed this content. other big techs likely have concluded the same thing, and these factors have probably caused more polarization, less trust in your neighbor, people who are now programmed to get outraged based on specific stimuli (whats known as "classical conditioning"). so many people these days have opinions that they probably didn't have a decade ago that they think are there own, but have actually probably been planted. ive known many people that 10 years ago were normal people, but now have become deranged individuals. If you have your privacy, it is vastly more difficult to be manipulated. Without your privacy, big tech will quickly learn which stimuli they need to send your in order to control you

>>19335 What tablet specifically? Does it have GPS?

Everything is stored on my drives. That's all of my privacy. If someone were to confiscate them, that'd be it. I think I should scavenge the area around me and find a spot to bury a chest in. Somewhere I can go to place my drives at the end of the day, if something were to happen.

>do you actually care about privacy? a wonderful question, and the answer for any lainon wtihout cognitive dissonance is a direct no and an indirect yes. nothing more to be said or read in this thread.

>>19371 Some x86 tablets out there can run linux or other OS without too much trouble. I did a little research and found one for sale locally, installed fedora on it and it's been a dream. Everything just works. This may not be the case with all x86 tablets. My priority was to have a free OS on the hardware, so if something doesn't work I'll fix it or live without it. A windows or MacOS experience was not the priority. Having said that, I installed KDE on it and it's immaculate, everything works. x86 Tablets don't have GPS as standard like arm tablets and phones. Search "best x86 tablet" for your favorite distro, many models will work.

Privacy on the internet is a word like toughness in the streets. You have to stay on top of your game all the time or you will get backstabbed by our techno overlords. The effort is like wearing a heavy knights armour all the time. Sure you get used to it, but it will never be comfortable and you will compete against veterans and geniuses alike all the time. What are you willing to sacrifice for privacy?

>>19326 Yes. Running Qubes-Whonix right now, Tor bridges, wired connections only, wireless capabilities and bluetooth physically disabled. Maybe machine isolation some day. I never use javascript, it is hard disabled, webgl disabled, etc. Outside of computers security still yes.

I'd say my experiences line up pretty nicely with >>19329 I find myself losing face all the time in my pursuit of a more secure internet/more private world. I have to remind myself however that though the odds seem insurmountable, that's how it seemed to all of history's successful revolutionaries. I plan to contribute to internet privacy by designing or aiding/auditing FOSS programs that specifically deal with communication, a place where I believe privacy is paramount, yet lacking on the internet. (Instant messengers/social media for example, are privacy nightmares). I also don't mind engaging in hacktivism against corporate or state actors, but I don't feel like leading any such charges. I lack the organizational skills to do so. Contributing is something I'd like to learn to do though. >>19408 Excellently put.

>>19431 >Excellently put. Agreed. >>19408 Sacrifice is the perfect word for it. Privacy is not something you "obtain," it's a continued practice.

What messenger services/apps do lainanons actually use to keep in touch with their fellows?

>>19335 Going on public wifi place to place is the worst security measure. Most providers these days dont even have a functional network without the data because they shut down everything except in some instances the most antiquated spotty garbled service of their first generation such as x1 with Verizon for example acting as backup when LTE doesn't work.

>>19436 Signal and Session Messenger are my recommendations, but there are privacy concerns with both (as with everything). These are still easy enough for regular people to use.

>>19436 >>19445 I forgot to add Matrix clients are also decent for communicating with friends who actually use computers, but don't use IRC.

If they want to invade your privacy, they will. If it's illegal, you'll get circumvention of the judicial system. Politicians are criminals, police are criminals. There's no evidence.

I was extensively framed for child sex abuse scandals since I was a young child. Teachers did it, doctors did it, police did it, ..., they're still doing it. They used chemical weapons, bio weapons, ... I never had privacy, the canaries worked and they extensively mutilated me alright?

>>19445 >>19446 Is there an easy way to get a signal or telegram account without giving out your real phone number?

>>19453 spend $5 on a callcentric account that you keep for a month https://callcentric.com

>>19453 either this >>19455, buy a prepaid burner phone with cash or use Session messenger which doesn't require any type of personal info (no phone or email).

>>19457 how does Session authenticate their users? which is to say, how are we sure that Johnson Smith A and Johnson Smith B are two separate people? How easy is it to steal someone's identity and use it on Session? These are questions out of concern and interest, not accusations with question marks. Also, this is just a personal worry of mine, but it says that it uses Tor networking, and I am very wary of who controls those exit nodes.

>>19458 >which is to say, how are we sure that Johnson Smith A and Johnson Smith B are two separate people Because those names are for aesthetic purposes only and the *only* reasonable way to authenticate users is via cryptography. >but it says that it uses Tor networking, and I am very wary of who controls those exit nodes. Then you're gonna flip when you realize who controls your network provider.

>>19453 keep in mind telegram's server side is closed source and not encrypted by default. If you need privacy this is not a good choice in my opinion. >>19458 what >>19459 said Session uses public/private key pairs for cryptography. Also, this is just a personal worry of mine, but it says that it uses Tor networking, and I am very wary of who controls those exit nodes. it uses onion routing, not the tor network. It uses a different network called Oxen. https://getsession.org/lightpaper/pdf

I basically live online. Daily drive qubes on a hot swappable drive that is physically hidden when not in use. Phone is GrapheneOS, no cellular, always everything over bridged Tor. I only pay with monero or cash. I make 6 figures anonymously, in crypto, and properly report all my taxes. I'm not on a lease and don't own a house. I privately rent cars with an anonymous crypto debit card when I need wheels. I'm a social butterfly but always wear sunglasses, mask, and hat in public. Nondescript clothes with no logos. I'm digitally invisible but have multiple large friend group spanning multiple continents and I get out to concerts and festivals almost weekly. I'm always traveling. Mostly couchsurfing. I'm also a gamer. Gaming traffic is the only traffic that doesn't go over Tor. But it does go over anonymous VPN accounts that rotate regularly. I spam up background checks with mislabeled photos of myself that can't be fully removed from the web, and by creating an ever increasing supply of decoy accounts using my birth name. I do lots more. Mostly automated by now. But that's the tip of the iceberg. Total time and cost of the 'above and beyond' measures is less than the time/cost of walking to a cafe and buying a coffee once a month. None of this is in anyway inconvenient. On the contrary, I enjoy a an ever-present sense of freedom which I could only dream of before going down this road.

>>19465 More specifically, and at a small risk of de-anonymizing myself somewhat, I'm a self-employed high frequency defi crypto trader. I don't touch NFTs or pump and dumps. I don't wage slave for anything. I don't have an account with any crypto exchange. I just code bots that make the markets more efficient, while extracting the surplus value for myself (which I pay taxes on).

>>19461 Thank you for answering my question clearly and concisely. I think I'll try it out after this. >>19459 >your ISP is worse than Tor Y'know, I don't know why I wrote that. Since I both wrote that reply and am writing this reply on Tor. I was feeling extra paranoid for some reason I guess.

>>19326 I came here to ask, mostly for affirmation. I do care about privacy and security, but I sometimes wonder why – like what do I really have to hide? I think my main threat model is governments and corporations though. I think my main concern now is in identities and how to divide them. I should probably have an IRL identity for work, bank, etc., a fake internet one, and maybe one in between for friends. I don't know which I should self-host, if any, though, especially if I want to "create content".

>>19465 How do you get internet on your phone without being tracked? Public wifi or is there another way?

I don't do anything crazy, but the extent that I do is because, while I'm sure someone with a few too many legal privileges can fuarrrk me sideways, at least I don't want to abide him in doing so.

>>19326 seriously. considering the most capable actors is what makes it an interesting pastime. obviously privacy is important, but you don't need anything to hide to accept the challenge

I don't care about privacy anymore. It's dead. Sure, you can take measures to protect yourself, even reach some anonymity if you go to extreme lengths, but the fact is state and corpo actors have enough financial and human resources to overcome any barrier you could ever put up against them. It's just not a fair fight. Even using something as simple as tor makes browsing the web a dysfunctional and frustrating experience and your punished for daring to skirt the grid. Privacy is a meaningless concept nowadays. Your only hope is to put out so much dummy info that you become a needle in a haystack.

I used to take it more seriously, but lately ive come to the conclusion that privacy doesnt matter if only technophile schizos can have it. Its cool to use obscure applications, web browser addons and alternate operating systems, but it doesnt matter if the rest of society is still under surveillance by the state and corporations. Its not enough for just one individual.

I do. I had a phase whwn I thought that it doesn't matter and I should just concede but it's just not right with me. There might be a lot of things that don't matter and I'll still do them if I believe that is right. Also, a lot of times people on their journey just start to think that privacy is binary and you either go full schizo with links, openbsd and tor or you install chrome on windows 11. While in reality, you're already doing a lot just by using Linux, Firefox and uBlock Origin. If you're tired, just find a safe point where you feel alright and stay there. I also have the same mindset with other things - I want to be more independent from government. Will it stop them from ensnaring hs more and more every year? Probably not. But that's what's right for me, so I don't mind a little bit of discomfort and hardship.

I take privacy very seriously. Protecting yourself from surveillance requires consistent self-discipine. At the end of the day your privacy depends on you. Do you use invasive apps like tiktok? Do you have a google account or willingly give up personal information out of conveniance? Just taking these small steps goes a long way in protecting yourself.

A vetran anti-apartheid activist told me they once discovered South African flying squad tailing them. So to shake them off and protect his comrades, he locked himself in his house alone for an entire week with no human contact. Bare in mind, this was back in the 80s. He said the hardest part was resisting the urge to call someone or answer the phone and the paranoia of peeking out of the window everyday. Eventually, after a week the cops figured the surveillence op was going nowhere and quit.

I basically do what I can to not be tied to any companies and try my best to keep my personal info off the internet as much as possible. While I still use YouTube I don't use the official app or anything. I am not worried about any law enforcement or government unless something changes to where it is a direct concern to me. I just don't want to be subjected to tech companies and government data collection and manipulative tactics. It's also good to convert as much of your computer uses to offline as much as possible. If you aren't online, they can't glow.

I'm noticing that posts are either showing concern about big corpos and government but never of other people on the internet. With how soykafty the internet has become and mob mentality I'm more concerned about the general population knowing anything about me besides government/corpo

>>20464 It's only natural that people are most concerned with actual centers of power, which not only have leverage, but even a lot of leverage. The government in itself exists to be a center of power.

Not really for the most part. For everyday boring stuff I just use the normal person tools that I know save everything anyway. They know that I masturbate anyway they know that i did to loli unfortunately, that might be used against me if i were to become someone famous If I'm doing something illegal or that I don't want to be seen then I move on to whonix VM or something. I'm only worried in case of war or the current regime getting weaker that they'll have to resort to violence and my right wing dissident past would glow in their systems

Cool thread, I think we're all going through similar struggles. I'll describe my general opsec; for myself, to get a clear picture; for others to take inspiration from; for others to critique certain practices or thoughts. I have 4 devices I use: a desktop, a laptop, an iphone, a raspberrypi DESKTOP >runs linux; drive always plugged in >runs proprietary software >used for daily, currently legal activities >browsing torrent sites >browsing social media >making payments >checking my private mail >writing essays/papers >listening to my pirated music & watching my pirated films >browsing and posting on lainchan >watching porn >try to avoid google; except for very basic searches >logged in to my university account >browser: firefox; privacy plugins and about:config but usability a priority so drm enabled for example >I installed chromium for drm related stuff but ended up not caring if they know I watch the news >sometimes engage on drugs related irc for info about safe usage >installed tor >windows spyware on another drive; drive always plugged in >used for video & photo editing >logged in to my university account LAPTOP >corebooted, neutralized me >encrypted >runs linux >only runs libre software, but not a libre kernel >libre wireless adapter >different hostname and macaddress on every boot so I don't leave a trail on public networks >checks for updates & connects to weather plugin & connects to always same nextcloud server on boot >I have a wireless hardware switch in case I want to boot up "invisibly" so I disable the stuff above first >used for daily, currently legal activities >basically everything I do on my desktop but more >also have used tor occasionally to look at what prices drugs are going for >used tor to engage in anarchist activities >falsifying corona documents IPHONE >runs apple spyware >used for daily, currently legal activities >mostly making calls & texting >taking picutures and videos >browsing lainchan >no internet plan >facial recognition >fingerprint also recorded >making payments >used a dumphone during my anarchist days though some contacts remained but phonebook is mostly clean RASPBERRYPI >runs linux >behind a vpn >runs a torrent client >used to host tor mirrors for legal websites I'd like to add that many of my online personas have different usernames and I'm almost sure they're not connected; but for certain activities I'm rather safe than sorry and completely take on a new identity so I don't accidentally link something My main concern is that some activities that are now legal will be illegal in the future or somehow prosecuted. I'm sure that from my social media activity/behaviour you could distill that I'm pro-civil rights and queer and to refer to the point made by another anon: during ww2 they suddenly made specific people illegal. Things are hard to hide once you touch social media, even if you don't share any info directly (eg. putting pronouns on your profile). Obviously I'm also worried about my iphone but I believe it's an acceptable compromise as long as I'm very mindful about the info I share with it; they have my face and fingerprints in my passport already anyway. I'm also a bit worried about not sandboxing my activities enough; I'm not sure how linux fits the current purpose for example; I may switch to Qubes and nuke my laptop's ssd. I'm not too worried about my past anarchist activities as the police here are pretty stupid and I always got away with it (never got too serious anyway) but I'm still curious if I'm on a 'refridgerator list'; anyway I plan to hide for a while if war should break out in my country. I posted this over tor btw :)

>>20111 Great post, I entirely agree on the vision of a spectrum of privacy, as a parameter that should be optimised as much as practically possible, rather than seeing it as a binary "win or lose" situation like >>20079, and succumbing to a sense of despair in front of the odds. Personally i perceive the invasion of privacy like an attack on my dignity as a human, which it is in some sense, so it seems like a logical thing to defend it and to push back as a reaction. So basically you should stand up for yourself while you still can. >>20478 >I'll describe my general opsec [...] for others to critique certain practices or thoughts. Your setup seems well designed and coherent for computing and basic self hosting / torrenting. I happen to have a very similar one using more minimal software. Except for one thing that struck me as obvious cope, which is justifying the use of an iphone : the literal pile of sensors and trashware that is the epitome of every surveillance state in the present year 2022. I would not sperg out on it if you said you didn't care about online privacy, but it is strange to use this specifically for someone who has an anarchist mentality and activities, and supposedly knows what kinds of threats this cyberhumped soykaf puts on your current and future liberty (like recording your location 7/7 and sending it to both corpos and govt, leaking usage metadata, possibly recording any sounds around it, for what we know those 5 or more specialized mics are there for something else than listening to normal close up calls). Honestly, even if you can't go back to a simple dumbphone that can do calls, texting, photos and has a removable battery, there are still saner options between a dumbphone and the utmost fagman-sponsored soykaf, for example graphene/calyxos/pinephone/etc, but you could just do yourself a favor and trash or resell that personal eavesdropping device ASAP. Tldr: Good choices overall, but to me the iphone can easily make your threat model useless as it is mainly a spying device.

>>20528 Don't get me wrong, I don't justify an iPhone (or any 'smart'phone) in terms of privacy/security, but thanks for confirming that my setup is flawed. The only reason I have it is to protect my sanity and I'm literally using the "at the moment I have nothing to hide" argument on myself... Maintaining my privacy is an active fight for which I don't have the energy at the moment; I'm sure I will in the future.

>>20532 Yeah sorry for the bad wording, what i meant by "justifying the use of an iphone" was really just trying to rationalize it's use, which did not seem coherent with the rest of your post. But it is very understandable that you had to make concessions for your setup to be any practical at all. Personally, i feel like a good level of practicality can be reached without smartphone, mostly by doing things the "old way" (even though smartphones only existed for a decade), but i also know that it is hard to stop using smartphones after using them for a long time. Personally i believe that i have reached an acceptable level of day-to-day privacy (by pre-iphone standards) through simplifying my setup in order to have a private place in my home at least, following these rules: - not using radio waves with my computers (only ethernet) because wifi/bluetooth beacons generate a soykafload of metadata that are automatically pushed to remote servers as soon as any cyberhumped device discovers them - removing the microphone in my laptop, and any camera/mic that is not needed at the moment The only microphone left that I know of is in the dumbphone, and i can just remove its battery whenever i don't want to use it. All of this probably sounds quite autistic but it is relieving to not be permanently datamined against your will, whereas simply having a smartphone around just removes the possibility of any "private" space left, as the phone will leave a trail of metadata everywhere one carries it, even when staying at home (which to me is supposed to be an intimate place, just look at Zuck who had bought up his neighboorhood to have a little privacy). Tldr: I think it is rather easy to design a simple setup that respects your privacy, by first getting rid of any IoT trash. Honestly to me it seems that the parts of privacy that require by far the most awareness and energy are the definition of the software to use and the conscious practice of opsec, but not so much the defining of which hardware to use since the worst choices are pretty obvious.

quality thread, my personal aversion to privacy violation, and by extension the seeming lack of ownership of personal data, If may add (in part tethered to soykafty services) is for the most part corporate harvesting, likely the part OP mentions on manipulation may be seeds sown that could be realized from TikTok. and the lack of concern or even so awareness, or more so disposition to just receive privacy infringement, and manufacturing it's consent, with hardware like oculus or soykafty firmware filled with bloat on similar devices. the lengths gone by some lainanons here kind of motivate personally with embracing more practices that enable privacy. I feel acceptance moreso in a stoic way that abuses of privacy exist, however I feel somewhat strong disapproval in enabling and receiving these abuses, going schizo level seems quite arduous, but admirable.

I'm more concerned about private actors than state institutions, but all in all I'm not that concerned. In all honesty I think that if you want to protect yourself you should focus more on the people around you that is organizing your network rather than tweaking your computer. And maybe get a gun...

>>20542 To add: I'm not concerned on an individual level, not because I have nothing to hide since I have plenty to hide but my rule of thumb is that if someone uses zero days and all manner of intricate surveillance against me then having them expose their surveillance or in a sense show their hand about it is worth the exposure of my data. And if they can exploit that data against me without exposing their surveillance then I consider it a threat just beyond my current ability to handle and accept it, I haven't really noticed being unable to do things because of this theoretical enemy, nobody comes to stop me anyways. A difference that makes no difference... Helps to be at peace with oneself, if you do things you couldn't ever come to terms with others knowing then perhaps it is best not to do those things. Of course I am not saying don't have anything to hide because surely you have something to hide, perhaps some perversion which you don't really consider evil but wouldn't want Mom to know. Then what you can do is just take enough steps to hide it that if Mom confronts you with the data you can instead say to Mom that she should be ashamed for so invading your privacy and for example criminally breaking this and that privacy law, which you should consider the bigger evil than your weird perversion. Some things which I think are healthy to consider are: State organizations like your local police department are very limited in what they can access and the process they must take to invade privacy is legally complicated and the surveillance itself often very expensive for them to undertake. How much capital and effort is your data worth in the bigger picture? Private corporations like to make money with as little risk as possible and invading their clients privacy is not just risky in the sense of losing customers but the legal risks of breaking privacy laws is an existential threat to corporations. Again, how much is the data about your perversion really worth to anyone? Finally a lot of criminals do serious crime very successfully while being tracked online and using FAANGs and such. Do not become blinded to all the 'side-channels' so to speak, the things outside of specific technologies that might protect you or expose you. Still, privacy technologies matter in many cases and are important. What I would like to see though is some collective action on this front like making the social media that currently mediate most life on earth into public works that are open source and the details of which would be debated by elected officials.

I have extremely hardened FOSS OS and FOSS everything on my desktop/laptop but I use clcosed software on my phone. Basically it's not really binary but a scale of what I want to use this particular machine for and why.

My introduction to more advanced security is very similar to >>19329. To say whether or not I care about privacy is I do the things that I think can reasonably be expected of a person interested in security but unwilling to do what is necessary to reach complete or total privacy. At the end of the day there's other aspects of life that I value more than 100% privacy and while this doesn't mean I think we should willing give up privacy or that it's okay for corps/governments to spy on us, some things just are more important to me. It seems a lot of other Lains feel similarly or are simply tired from the amount of work necessary to be even somewhat private. Everyone do your best!

Honestly all that needs to happen is that groups/circles of friends need to band together and control their own communication services. Sheer volume and E2E software will make it unlikely for even feds to spy on you Back in the 2000s when we played videogames together it was all in Clan type setups with a TeamSpeak/Vent and later Mumble server. We used to do this stuff already. Having counties/cities/towns spin up their own instances makes sense too for 'normal people'. People putting faith into privately run services like Discord which will either disappear or suck eventually anyway is not a great basket to put your eggs into. This isn't some crazy leftist stance either, we've just seen that capitalism is incompatible with providing this type of service well (and in the worst case ends up like twitter) pic unrelated

I use free software and services that do not collect my data. I do not carry my phone with me if it is not necessary, and when i do it has the battery disconnected. Main threats are big corporations. it is scary that big corporations know more from people than the person itself. and even if you do not give your data to corporations yourself, other people will, often unknowingly. we all know about phones mapping wlan address points for geoip. i have seen multiple times that siri has activated on someones iphone when [s]he has said something (that was not hi siri), proving that some phones are always listening their surroundings. also see this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34052786 if you use google maps on your phone that will change geoip data for that ip, thankfully only for google, and not for maxmind/ipinfo/ip2location, so only google has the proper location and not all random sites that pay for location data. The geoip threat can be migrated using TOR, but some websites block even reading the content from it.

I go pretty far where I care. I don't care very much for bulk data collection or blanket surveillance, because I don't have the know-how to properly anonymize myself against it, and I'd rather keep my head down and blend into millions of my peers than raise a big red flag. If I want to discuss a private matter, I will use private means, Ideally offline. What I do care about are individuals who would like to know me a little too personally. Everything is isolated. Profiles, habits, interests, active hours, typing quirks, emails, musical tastes, gender, first language... I enjoy obsessing over it, honestly. Feels like the olden days where everyone had their little internet persona, except now it has the practical use of making me entirely ungoogleable. I don't know how much has slipped through over the years, given how hard it is to keep track of a lifetime of talking soykaf online, but I try to background check myself every once and a while, just to be sure. I've spent money on services for it before, too. I'm no professional stalker, but I do like to think of myself as resourceful, and I can't even get to most of my public information without the direct link, so that makes me feel pretty comfortable. For all it's worth, I am a ghost.

>>19326 I care quite a lot. I built a Libreboot X200 with a fully deblobbed Debian because I was worried about the Intel Management engine. I also recently bricked the Motherboard of a T420 trying to install coreboot in aims of having a fully libre Qubes system. I do compartmentalize however, I have untrusted machines on which I do most of my work for university and general usage. When I really need privacy I go to the secure machines.

How do you guys handle privacy with banking? Knowing about someone's economic status is quite some important information to have, after all. Recently I've also started considering investing in the stock market, does anyone here also handle that?

>>20653 Just use a different machine. If you don't have an alternative to that, try a VM with sandboxing, dual boot into a different OS, and/or at the very least just use a different browser.

>>19326 I only care about privacy insofar as it disrupts correctness - I'm not deathly afraid of being tracked, I just don't like the wasted CPU cycles.

>>19326 As >>19329 pointed out, interest in privacy is more an extension of an interest in technology for me right now. I think most "privacy-conscious" people don't really have a clear understanding of what "privacy" means--what they want is to not be surveilled, but the actions taken to accomplish it usually just result in a complete disconnection from any kind of social or communal existence. Although it's really gotten much more intense, there's ALWAYS been a tradeoff between privacy & community, and human beings tend to choose community. So the way I'm thinking about "privacy" these days is how to protect a few assets and some private/sensitive information, and to otherwise remain connected to the communities and people I want to be with, and to learn about technology so that I have the power and understanding to balance those needs.

>>19326 I've noticed that with time I value my life less and less and it affects how much I care about privacy.

Eh. Idk. I care more about corpos peeping. There’s not much I can do about the government big brother. But at least I can do small things to keep corpo big brother at bay. I used to be way more stringent but then I was like meh. There is only so much I can do. Especially if I don’t want to opt out of smartphone usage. I do what I can when I can and keep an ear to the ground for legislation to vote for.

My threat model doesn't really consider individuals, I don't really make enemies. Sure, I want my internet brewing soykaf kept away from my name, but beyond that, nah. My threat model is really minimizing surveillance capitalism and other corporate abuse, and aim to minimize exposure to passive dragnet. I don't like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter and all that rot. And I do take reasonable efforts to counter them. I daily-drive a Linux distro and habitually use VPNs and Tor or even Whonix. On mobile, I use GrapheneOS (formely LineageOS). When I left* facebook years ago, I generated a bunch of bullshit data which the GDPR data downloads suggest was very effective. No, I'm not looking to dodge the CIA soykaflist. I'm not a threat to them, I would be a waste of their limited resources. So I do use a phone, I do use the internet, I do sometimes fill captchas, I do many things a super-paranoid (and there would be a couple here) would shake their head at.

>>21125 On the bright side, corpo big brother is a data collection method for gov big brother (e.g. PRISM) so you're even doing a bit of work on that front just by avoiding corpo.

>>19326 nobody cares about me and I am a NEET so my data isn't very valuable anyways. Using Firefox with ublock origin is "good enough" for me. I use either Linux or MacOS depending if I am using my desktop or laptop. I use the Firefox password manager. I use telegram for chatting with friends and family and random internet strangers, and occasionally discord if I am forced to use it. I occasionally torrent things. >>21121 this

google / the nsa already knows everything about me, so im already fuarrrked. im pretty good about it compared to normal people, but theres a point where i cant give a soykaf

>>20789 This is a good post. Community is important to me. I think most people who comment here about being depressed or otherwise unhappy need to find a community with positive elements.

In general, it isn't worth worrying too much about nation-state adversaries. Practicing good opsec also involves analyzing what threats you are realistically going to face. For most people, the priority should be protecting the security of accounts (Strong and unique passwords, 2FA, using a password manager etc) and limiting where their data is shared (deleting old accounts, managing privacy settings for services, using FOSS alternatives wherever reasonably achievable, using Linux, being mindful of what you share and post etc). I highly recommend looking at https://privacyguides.org to help get you on track and understand things a bit better. Making those fundamental changes puts you ahead of like 95% of everyone else, and makes more of a difference than the 5% change one might make to fight the collection from the NSA.

>>21149 Yeah, pretty much. If you are in a situation where they are a legitimate threat, the focus should be isolating your activity in a way where they wouldn't be able to tie it to your person. Prevent them from being able to associate whatever you're doing with you as a person.

>>21149 Over time, this information will grow less and less accurate if you don't continue feeding them info. >>21510 Yes, there isn't much that you can do if you're being targeted by the NSA, but limiting the amount of semi-public information about yourself that is available online will make it harder for anyone (feds included if you ever become interesting), to get to know you.

>>21510 Wanted to come back and add to this. One trap I see a lot of people fall into is the misconception that libre = safe/secure and therefore is necessarily good. This is not a good way of looking at things. For example, there's the joke that is linux-libre which rips out microcode that protects against CPU vulnerabilities, or the soykafty Android ROM Replicant that is built on a version of Android that is horribly out of data and obsolete, latest version being based on Android 6 which released in 2015. If you want actual security, stay the hell away from these kinds of stupid projects that prioritize their personal philosophical beliefs over your device security. Use FOSS software where you reasonably can for sure, like using Linux instead of Windows/Mac or Thunderbird instead of Outlook, but things like Libreboot/Coreboot or using some weird ancient distro endorsed by the FSF does not have as much benefit as Stallman worshippers might try to suggest. Although I will concede they seem like really fun technical undertakings, kind of like how Gentoo is generally awful for daily use for most people but great for poking at and messing around with. Too long didn't give a soykaf: Libre != necessarily good or secure or safe to use and think about what efforts meaningfully contribute to protecting you, but it's okay to have fun with hardware and software.

>>21521 Why do you say Gentoo is awful for daily use? I think it's great. People are afraid of it because it's a meme "install gentoo faget", but if you are programming and operating computers anyway, Gentoo is the most trustworthy distro. The meme that makes it look like some kind of 200IQ Einstein soykaf, maybe actually isn't that bad. It filters out the dumb masses, quick buck craving companies and mine laying saboteurs, leaving developers with strong discipline on the project, this may be the reason the package maintenance, the package manager, the response time to problems, and other important things are the best and unpaired in Gentoo, compared to all other distros. t. Gentoo user for a little short of a decade, who are trying all kinds of other distros regularly out of curiosity.

>>21524 >generally Most people (myself included) don't want to wait around waiting for something to compile or trying to diagnose some issue. That shouldn't take away from anyone's desire or passion to use it, my point is just that the average user who wants to improve their privacy and security will not benefit from the control and customization Gentoo allows for. It's one of those "If you have to ask why, you probably shouldn't" type cases. It doesn't mean you cannot give it a shot if you want though. As for the Gentoo being a meme, I personally think it only serves to gatekeep less technical people into being willing to try Linux because they see it as something only the smartest biggest brain people can do, when that isn't the case.

if i have a ssd with an encrypted operating system, and then i have a USB stick with tails, if tails becomes vulnerable from some attack, assuming they don't have root access to the operating system on the ssd, it's possible they can access that operating system ?

>>21526 Malware could modify the boot partition on your PC.

>>21526 the operating system itself is encrypted, so no. However there is an unencrypted boot partition that is accessed during boot, containing data which is required for you to decrypt the encrypted part. I suppose it may be possible to put malware there and have it compromise the boot process. I am interested to know more about how feasible this is

>>21528 Not a professional so take what I say with some salt, but I would guess it isn't as feasible as just waiting for the target to boot up the system, decrypt the root partition and then compromise it then. It's theoretically possible an attacker could somehow compromise the initramfs to leak the decryption password and send it back to them, but again the amount of effort that would go into that makes it generally not worth the effort; that's stuff that a nation-state would possibly try to pull for an extremely high value target. So in short >>21526, you're fine. Your data will be safe from someone ripping your drive out and trying to mount it to access the data, or someone stealing the device.

>>21528 >>21555 leaked CIA tools do exactly this, and it would be very possible to deliver them with a pretty standard rootkit.

>>21558 Vault 7, right? I should download them and check them out lol. It's been a while since they've been leaked. Those exploits in particular probably don't work nowdays with newer patches and fixes being released, although the feds likely have new methods. Then again, you're unlikely to be at risk of those kinds of tools unless you do something to really piss them off and get on their radar. Most people don't need to worry about that.

>>21568 /boot can be freely written to if you have root, so the mitigations you can do are always going to be security through obscurity e.g. doing a checksum of your kernel image or encrypting the initramfs with GRUB. But the bootloader can be overwritten and fool the user anyway. The attack has been known for a very long time, the vault 7 leaks were honestly not a big shock. The only way to really mitigate this attack is to keep your boot partition in a separate USB key that is never plugged in post-boot and is kept on your person at all times. It's actually not too hard to do, I did it for a while. Problem is you have to plug in the key to update the bootloader/kernel/firmware, which you should absolutely do. Possibly you could do that from a separate airgapped machine (obviously compiling from source with no binary blobs, otherwise what's the point?)

>>21569 I can't imagine anyone going to such extreme lengths, I don't think even Snowden is that schizo about his security. I know there's the trick to boot into root user via modifying GRUB or SystemD boot parameters a little, useful for if you forget your root password, but as far as I'm aware that only works on a partition you can freely access either unencrypted or with the key. Modifying bootloader really isn't that big of a concern compared to other measures the general public can take to protect themselves, people shouldn't be too worried about it I think.

>>21569 >>21571 boot usb is a pretty nice option to run 2 os in parallel as you can use the usb as a switch. You plug in, you start your secure os. You dont, you start your winblows consumer os. Especially interesting for a travel laptop where you might want to give the impression of a normal system to hide your important things.

What even is privacy? It sounds like a dumb question but I'd like to know. People talk about privacy as if it's this thing you can hold on to, like a glass orb full of precious information and data that the authorities shouldn't be allowed to look at. It's like the myth of an inner true self or the soul. The very fact we've passed through the brainwashing centers that are schools and through a bunch of physical institutions/programming centers (medical centers, driver's licensing soykaf, social security, college etc) mean they already have more than enough info about you anyway. They literally moulded how we think, so what we do online or the contents of our hard drives are just icing on the cake. They might need it for a conviction or to sell your data, but other than that they already own you. How do I overcome my own mental programming? It's like a bot trying to be sentient. I guess that's why religious fundamentalism and occultism are popular, escaping from rational thought which are just processes coded into us. I'm more obsessed with trying to escape the ways I've been trained to think than privacy because without breaking free mentally I can't create a place where I can grow privately.

>>21573 With science, we learn to predict nature so as to gain power over it. 'Privacy' is the right to be a source of unmanaged social entropy, the right to be unpredictable. That is, you don't want governments to be able to readily differentiate between those who possess agency and those who do not, because if they can, it is easier to hone in on who has the capacity to threaten their social order, their status quo, one way or another. What data they have on you from the past is usually totally worthless. Data only matters if it lets your actions be predicted today in the here and now, to know what people are planning and have insight into what they do today. If you are a learner, you can change a lot in relatively short amounts of time, and oligarchs need to keep track of that if they want to keep their stranglehold on power.

>>19326 I hope this doesn't sound dumb... But privacy is a spectrum and you should do your best to protect your privacy. Limit the amount of data corpos and others have on you.

>>21580 This isn't dumb at all. It's a logical and nuanced answer. There's a spectrum between convenience and privacy/security, and people have their comfortable spots on different parts of that spectrum. People who insist that the only way to be private is to use Tails 24/7, selfhost your email and PGP encrypt everything are just neckbeards who watch Luke Smith religiously. Also just to add, I want to warn against taking Rob Braxman seriously. >>21572 I can agree that it benefits security, but I can't say I believe it's worth the effort for most people. There isn't any evidence to suggest that Windows ever modifies or tries to hijack a boot partition, except for some update just outright borking it forcing you to reinstall GRUB or something like that, which isn't even that common from what I've seen.

>>21580 agreed. Not dumb at all. I believe it's a balance. Max security would be to kill yourself because at that point no data can affect you.