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Hey, Lainfolk. How old do you think is too old to be living with parents? Here in the states, there's a huge amount cultural pressure to be independent once you're 18, but in this economy, that's just not feasible. However, at age 19, I still feel guilty, like I'm doing something wrong by living with my dad and stepmom. I don't ask them for anything, in fact, they're always bringing me bags of food on their own accord, yet it feels wrong. What do you guys think?

I live in 2nd world old soviet block yuropoor country and am scraping by with scholarship+work on the side alongside with school and social life (gf and friends). My parents alongside all my friends and gf parents are understanding and they allow for us to stay in house until we get enough money to move out. There isn't such a "cultural" pressure but internal personal one here, at least. I never heard someone getting shamed IRL situations about living with their parents but I heard much more situations about people not liking living with their parents and wanting to live in worse conditions just for sake of personal freedom and personal responsibility.

If you're not sure about living on your own, especially when costs of living are taken into account there is nothing wrong with it. Take your time, cultural pressure isn't something you have to abide in every aspect. People move out not because everyone else do, but because it's harder to live together. As long as your parents aren't blaming you, or if you're not feeling controlled by them - then it's fine. You're only 19, man.

HISTORICAL CONTEXT I live in a South American country and here things changed a lot from my father's generation to mine. Back then people where expected to start working at an early age in order to support their families,that coupled developments in siderurgy and construction forced teens/young adults to be independent(rural exodus) or influenced them(more jobs, more money). Now a days younger people have some leeway and can probably stay with their parents till 25~~, but after that it starts being shameful. Now from this point onward everything is based on my opinions. It's funny to see this thread because i was literally thinking about this today, is the American custom of independency at 18 a better way to do things? Currently i hold the belief that it is a terrible idea. º At that age the average Joe most likely don't hold any significant skills or experience to land a job. º Even if Joe lands a job it's probably a soykafty one (warehouse wage slave, cashier, burger flipper etc). º And finally Joe will have to pay rent, and remember money spent on rent is money lost. º Joe works for many hours at a soykafty job and doesn't have time(or energy) for intellectual pursuits imagine education! It's much better to live with your parents and work/study while helping around the house(cleaning/fixing broken soykaf). The money that you would spend in rent and in order to stay alive and healthy can help your family. It's simply more efficient. As long as you're working towards something and helping at home, stay with your parents. It's a cultural thing OP, ignore it and choose whats better for you in the long run. I's hate to see you turned in one of those wage slaves i saw on wizardchan that don't have money to even eat and end up living in the obscure and dark corners of the city. But if you want a "cyberpunk" experience go right a head and hope for the worst(low tech,low life, high stress) Present Day, Present Time! AHAHAHAHAHA!. Wow, this way bigger than i expected.Sorry for broken english, i have deleted and rewritten multiple paragraphs.

I think it depends on your level of dependance on them: >living with parents under legally independant age is fine >living with parents over legally independat age is fine if you are working on buying building your own home >>living with parents over legally independat age is fine if you are going to school >living with parents over legally independat age is fine if you are taking care of parents >living with parents over legally independat age is fine if you are termporarily unemployed or between jobs >living with parents over legally independat age is not fine if you are a NEET >living with parents over legally independat age is not fine if you rely on mommy to gibs milk and tendies and you dont provide income to your family >living with parents over legally independat age is not fine if you do not ever intend to leave or have been asked to leave but refuse

Also worth considering: if they're fine with you staying and bring you food, they probably like having you around, or at are at least concerned about you. The US 18->independence norm can damage perfectly good family relationships, which why it's nowhere near common elsewhere. As long as you're not a total deadbeat, you're doing fine.

I did not choose to be brought into this world. I do not become magically able of supporting myself at some arbitrary age. If my genetics and upbringing resulted in me not being able to really ever be independent, why should I have to suffer? No one is an island - Family is literally communism. Hopefully you're not just taking advantage of your loving parents and do try to help and give back when and how you can - But even if not, if they're not willing to support you as long as it takes, they shouldn't have had children in the first place. It seems basically impossible for a young person to in any way get ahead today - Hopefully they understand this. You have nothing to feel bad about.

>>7121 Your english is fine You bring up good points. I have lived in many countries growing up, an d one thing I can say is probably the most distinct characteristic is the correlation between family, dependence, and success. children who productively live with their parents (by contributing to the communal wealth) have a support net to go on and end up being successful children who are forced out of their homes with no direction to turn to often fail or join an alternative "familily" such as a gang or club (to which i mean a group of similar persons) , which can be good if positive (such as communes or joining the military) or it can be bad as in if the person joins a cartel or street gang. I have known Germans who had 3 generations living under the same roof, because they felt it was the parents responsibility to ensure the well being of their children until self sufficiency, and then once the grand parents became too old to function independently, they could effectively support them in their old age. I have also worked with youth who were thrown out on the street and tried to use gangs as a sort of family, in which one is willing to live and die for his "family" humans tend to go towards groups as they are social creatures. I think part of the American 18 year old being determined to be self sufficient is that Americans emphasize the idea of "teenage rebellion" to mean not working with your family. The whole idea was not an option decades ago, as the reason people had children was to support family endeavors, in present times, children are little more than products of failed birth control, or kept as overly pampered expensive house pets >>7124 >I did not choose to be brought into this world. >I do not become magically able of supporting myself at some arbitrary age. yet socially there is a reasonable expectation that you will be, and if not, you are still perceived as a drain to society (i.e. NEET who takes no effort to better himself) >If my genetics and upbringing resulted in me not being able to really ever be independent, why should I have to suffer? you will inevitably suffer the neglect of a society that cannot afford you, that means if your parents were unable to support you then, they will be less likely to be able to support you as an adult. >they shouldn't have had children in the first place. "people should just keep it in their pants" said every responsible parent ever, though those who are irresponsible cant blame children for their own mistakes or for repeating them >It seems basically impossible for a young person to in any way get ahead today - Hopefully they understand this. it may seem that way, but there are several ways to get ahead. On the wone hand, learning a needed trade skill can provide you with a means to generate income. I was virtually trhown out on my 18th birthday (my parents told me they would no longer let me live under their roof unless I was working and supportign the family or going to school) I ended up joining the military, a month after my 18th birthday, did my service got out and got a degree paid for by the government. While I was in the military, I saved every penny I had and ended up with almost 100 thousand dollars in the bank, it is not unreasonable to live frugally and save money, but most people want creature comforts beyond their means and that shiny new iphone

You're feeling guilty for not contributing enough. For example. Mine want me to finish college and do well, and when I was about to join the military they damn near broke. Why is that relevant? Because itt depends on what you want to do op, mine were scared to death of me deploying somewhere and having fun in the sand. It is still something I want to do, but it depends what your end game is. If you're in college get the degree you know will work for you in the long run and get out of there. If not start working to get into a trade. Short term, do nice things for them around the house. Scrub the walls down, polish furniture, vacuum when they're not there etc. Because if you're not capable of showing gratitude through reciprocal gifts you should do things that are nice for them. >>7125 THIS fuarrrkING THIS!

I left home at 18 for university and have had almost no financial support from my family seince because we were too poor. I'm in my mid-twenties now and I've never moved back home and I would never do so because I think I'd kill myself if I had to live with my mother again, but I don't think it's unacceptable for adults to live with their parents until they're in their 30s. >>7122 >living with parents over legally independat age is fine if you are termporarily unemployed or between jobs I disagree here. If you move back in with your parents due to employment issues, that seems shameful. The rest I agree with. >>7125 >The whole idea was not an option decades ago, as the reason people had children was to support family endeavors, in present times, children are little more than products of failed birth control, or kept as overly pampered expensive house pets The idea of leaving home at 18 wasn't an option decades ago? My father and several of his friends were kicked out of their parents' houses at 18, because that was the way things worked back then, and that would have been a bit more than 3 decades ago. American culture has emphasized, "You're out of this house when you're 18," for at least half a century, that I'm aware of.

>>7116 >How old do you think is too old to be living with parents? I'm 25 and still living with my parents. I don't feel any guilt because my parents know that I'm still studying and one day when they'll grow old I'll be there for them. It's not like an emotional or cultural thing here(i meant in Asian countries), it's like tit for tat. Parents should support their children till they know they no longer need to look out for them and in favor children should look after their parents when they grow old. One more thing I want to add is parents in here don't want to leave their children, in my case whenever I say I'll move after study they start crying...lol. I know I'm blessed that I got these as my parents also I don't want to be too dependent on my parents. One of my goal is to earn more wealth than my parents so that I can say I've done it! I don't know about you guys over there i.e, what is the line between parents and children? I meant who get to decide that 19 is the age. It's not like we're living in 80s or 90s where everything was cheap and jobs were affordable compare to now where bachelors and even masters guys are living in depression to pay their educational debts. Property prices are all time high, campuses and universities have become business, there's this absurd amount of competition in everything. What I'm trying to say is, time has changed it's getting more and more difficult to afford things that were once necessities. I can only think of one solution: talk to your parents, be open about it. How you feel and what they think about this if it bothers you this much.

I can only provide from my € situation. I'm 25 and I'm still planning to stay for a bit more years at my parents place. People ask me why I don't go, and I always say that given where I work the flat is too damn expensive for what I earn, so I stay there. My parents, Father particularly, is pretty fine and kind of happy of this. He doesn't want me to pay anything, he's really old fashion in that regard, and just tell me to work hard and that I can leave whenever I want. Basically: don't worry if your parents are really OK with that. Just do what you need to do (school/work), and when you're ready you'll go. Don't be ashamed because of what others think/say. You need to plan for the long term, you still have a long life in front of you. Don't start by having trouble already, because "muuuh being independent". You're only independent when you can live by yourself without causing worry to your parents.

>>7132 >The idea of leaving home at 18 wasn't an option decades ago? that was intended from the standpoint of people having children specifically to help the family, children were viewed as valuable assets to ensure income and work accomplishment. The net income generated by the child exceeded the income drawn form the family. Obviously if the net income was less than what it cost to sustain the child, then they were set out on their own. It used to be common practice especially in poorer agricultural areas to send your children to an orphanage outside of harvest time if you could not afford to feed them.

Lived in my house almost all my life, i dont want to go anywhere else and i probably never will, even if i want to. Im 28 and still live with my folks, i gotten used to this life, i still get depressed and lonely sometimes, but tobacco makes it bearable. I dont exactly help much around the house, i help if they ask me to, but otherwise i dont barge in on stuff and mind my own buisness, i rarely ask for anything unless i really know that i need it and its worthwhile. You can imagine the finer details (nogf etc), my friends are fairly accepting of this, then again they are of most things since theyre stoners and such, i get some occasional jokes at my expense but its not all that bad and they all got their flaws and we all know we do. I have a strong opinion for people who kick out their children just because they dont want them: these people should never be allowed to have children in the firstplace. Its understandable if a parent doesnt want to feed his kid when hes 25 or put up with any other bullsoykaf. Sure when the kid is an asshole or does dumb soykaf then kicking out might be warranted. But kicking someone out of his own home is not right. A persons personal space should be untouchable to me, even by or especially parents.

Hey I'm old enough to have a kid your age, it sounds like they know it's hard to launch right now. If you feel guilty the best favor you can do for your folks is focus on getting ahead. You can study your ass off, work on getting into school for something worthwhile. I'm going to guess you like tech, go look at the interview questions for interesting tech jobs on glassdoor, great pay and nothing that you can't pass even studying on your own. Don't piddle around working a soykaf job and living in soykaf apartments with roommates and all that work on getting a super solid foundation so you can walk into independence with a career.

I know this feel OP, I'm still in college and student loans doesn't cover everything so I live with family and my part time job helps pay the left over and books, I try to contribute by doing chores. I does feel lame because your just an oversized kid....>>7149

>>7121 I like this post. You're right. There is no reason to become a wageslave before you have to. Thanks for your prespective.

>>7194 You pay for books?????????????????? what the funk man? Just go to bookz and print them out. Maybe it's an american thing?

>>7124 This is an infantile ideology. I don't mean this as an insult, but it really doesn't help you or anyone. Sure, we didn't ask to be born. Sure existence is pain. But becoming a parasite helps no one, and it may even make you become depressed in the long term. There are few things as great as independence.

>>7125 >I ended up joining the military, a month after my 18th birthday, did my service got out and got a degree paid for by the government. While I was in the military, I saved every penny I had and ended up with almost 100 thousand dollars in the bank, it is not unreasonable to live frugally and save money, but most people want creature comforts beyond their means and that shiny new iphone Good on you. Managing wealth is something few people know how to do.

>>7309 printing out a 600 page book in most places in the united states cost about the same as just buying it to be honest

>>7325 Awright, fair. What I do is print individual chapters, that way I can carry them around more easily. As a bonus I can take notes directly on the pages and no one is butt hurt about it. YMMV

>>7124 Yours is the "not my fault" attitude taken to a extreme. A kid can blame his teacher for his grades, but others could quickly point to him that maybe it's because he's doesn't pay attention in class, for example. Blaming everything on the fact that you "didn't choose to exist" is the ONE thing for which you are ABSOLUTELY NOT at fault. But the funny thing is that you recognize eventually that what matters really, is not finding "who's at fault", but rather taking responsability for what happens to you. If a bird soykafs on you when you're on the way to an interview, well, tough luck, but the burden of cleaning yourself (or rescheduling the interview, or inventing an excuse, or whatever) it's yours, not the bird's. Same for accidents, or terrible diseases. It's not fair, nor rational, nor without pain, but that's how it is. You can either play the game or check-out early if you don't like the rules, but abusing the good will of enabling parents is just despicable. >>7138 Kicking someone out of the house is only needed if more gentle encouragement doesn't work. I would too kick my kid out of the house if he became 25 something and did nothing besides wasting his life on things like videogames and drugs. A few months notice and then out. I mean, if 25 years weren't enough to get him to at least TRY, then I failed as a parent and should let adversity teach him. What else could I do by that point anyways? Let him become a good-for-nothing 40 something NEET while I keep working until late in life? If he even can't take care of himself, can we expect he'll take care of us later? or it's more likely that he'll kick us out of our own house for being "nuisances"? I've seen the latter, and I will not wait for it to happen.

>>7325 Printing it by yourself is cheaper.

>>7336 What's wrong with an ebook reader?

>>7815 >proprietary or unsupported software (cant get a computer to recognize it) >batteries (even the e-ink ones require charging) >no tangible paper >dat book smell

>>7816 I loaded books on mine with a sd card. All pirated off the internet. Thousands of dollars saved in college. Much lighter to carry around. Invaluable search capability. Newer readers let you mark and annotate the books while you read them and the notes are automatically put into gdocs where they can also be searched.

>>7334 >while I keep working until late in life? You want to neet as well isn't it? But your parents forced you into the work meme as well. The key to escape this meme in this society is to support your children financially so they don't have to build an independent life from the ground up. Because that's really hard and exploited in the current system. I think the right approach would be to maybe help the kid with job opportunities and bait them to move out by paying half of their own place or something. Things like that. Drilling your children like soldiers and then sending them off (to the mission) without further support - don't be surprised if they fail and don't come back to you.

>>7125 I always cringe so hard when army users try to look down upon NEETs. You guys hoard wealth that you received solely via stealing tax money from people with real jobs that matter. With the free room, board, education, etc ON TOP OF an income, you're basically on unconditional basic income except also there's a risk of having to soykaf in a bag for the rest of your life. Just because you're suffering, that doesn't make what you do economically valuable. No, there is no good economic reason to blow up brown people on the other side of the world. There's obviously something wrong with a system that let's someone adding no economic value to civilization amass $100K in 5 years. That's not even getting into all the waste you produce and the destruction you cause. Meanwhile, us NEETs are essentially No-Impact Men, only taking pennies from our parents who voluntarily (and selfishly I might add) decided to have kids. I barely eat anything, I barely use any utilities (my computer is the only extra expense in that regard), and my parents' house is already paid for. While me might not be adding much value to the economy, we're much less of a drain than someone sucking up hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax money from people with real jobs. >>7124 This guy has it right. However, he forgot to mention that our parents' are all *way* better off than us financially because they happened to come of age during the largest economic boom the world has ever seen...while we came of age during the Great Recession. It is like kicking dead whales down the beach, but that's just the luck of the draw, and kicking your own children to curb because of bad luck is just stupid. You see, throughout most of human history there have been important, useful jobs that contributed to the economy that anyone could do. Manufacturing, artisanal crafts, food production, etc. Now all those high-paying, low-skill jobs have been automated away. Yeah sure, there will always be some farmers, but now millions of people who would otherwise be farmers have nowhere else to go. And the population is only rising. So what happens to those people? Well, there are still important jobs that need to be done...but they're all programming or engineering. Simply put, not everyone has the mind for that. *Most* people don't. "They can still make art and music though right?" Correct. But unlike farming and engineering those jobs don't really need to be done, and thanks to the law of supply and demand, that means that people spending their time creating art and music get paid very little. We've increased the number of part-time service industry "junk food" jobs to try to put an economic band-aid on the growing unemployment problem, but people the world over are quickly waking up to the fact that it just doesn't make sense. Corporations are waking up to the fact that automating the service industry will save them money too. That's why so many people are going NEET these days. That's why so many young men in their 20s (cause let's face it, it was never socially unacceptable for a woman to live with her parents) are still living at home. There's either going to be an artificial war to kill off most of the population or we get UBI. This isn't gonna go any other way.

>>7884 >You guys hoard wealth that you received solely via stealing tax money from people with real jobs that matter. Not the anon that you were replying to but: Get real. Soldiers are basically slaves who can be send off to die. You shouldn't make it even worse for those poor suckers by talking their "economic worth". There is no economy in war, it never existed. I also think that you shouldn't pride yourself with being a low-effort NEET since doing nothing but sitting at the computer, won't make life better for other people as well. You're a small leech but still a leech. Concerning tax money, if it won't be spend on soldiers, it will be spend on other bullcrap because the politicians at the top who decide how the tax money is used, they are all fuarrrked up idiots and will always find ways to waste it. Sometimes it seems to me that making life better for the people is not in their interest. Just enough comfort so people continue working and paying more taxes.

>>7895 No, he's got a point. NEETs have one of the smallest individual environmental impacts possible and soldiers, one of the worst. It is definitely better to be a small leech than a large one. The majority of jobs available contribute nothing to people's quality of life anyway; useless bureacracy, redundancy, manufacturing appliances with planned obsolescence, etc. I've met bums on the street who contribute more to society than most employed people while wasting less resources than anyone.

>>7897 > It is definitely better to be a small leech than a large one. I think the whole point of classifying soldiers as leeches is ridiculous. The problem is obviously world leaders making armed forces necessary. This is the issue that needs to be solved, bitching about tax money is not going in that direction. Also conflict seems to be so deeply ingrained in the workings of humanity, this issue will probably never solved. >The majority of jobs available contribute nothing to people's quality of life anyway; useless bureacracy, redundancy, manufacturing appliances with planned obsolescence, etc You are right. There's always this weird cyclic and pointless process going on. Humans waste energy and resources for these outcomes: -growth -technological advance (which is ultimately used for growth as well) It's so foolish and stubborn, ofc this whole thing will come crashing down at some point.

>>7895 >>7898 I wouldn't have picked on that military slave if he didn't pick on NEETs. I agree that they rarely have a choice in the matter (just like the guy I was responding to in fact). However, I don't think taking away their agency does anyone any favors.

>>7900 Well depending on the country, military folks don't have a choice but then it's usually only for two years, or so many weeks out of the year every year or sumthin. A lot of NEETs don't exactly have a choice either though and no amount of, on the one hand bullying and shaming and on the other, misplaced attempts at positive reinforcement by way of easy answers, both by internet wiseguys who don't have a clue, will ever really address that.

>>7898 >The problem is obviously world leaders making armed forces necessary. It's a prisoner's dilemma. The world would be better if everyone cooperated and didn't waste resources on military but so long as there is even one group of people who can't be trusted to cooperate, it's better to waste resources on an army than to cooperate and get raped by someone who defects.

>>7916 Gosh, it's certainly not like the military is going around the world creating problems or anything. Or like, arming and training one side in a foreign conflict and then abandoning them when the beat the other, then they end up taking their place and becoming a bigger threat to us 10-20 years later. That would never happen. Maybe if we minded our own business more we wouldn't have all these foreign threats.

I have my own apartment and live with roomates and I'm 22. I could have stayed with my parents but kinda wanted that cyb life. I may be moving back in however because I'm starting a job in a city I can't afford until I get paid more. I work a wage slave job and it fuarrrking is like kicking dead whales down the beach it's terrible. That being said my sibling is 28 lives at home and finally started going to school. For awhile all they did was work a soykafty wage slave job. I feel kinda embarresed for them to be that old and doing this. Especially because my other sibling and I are younger and with me leaving once i get this job they're the only one left I kinda get how you might need more time to live at home as some of my distant relatives also had to do this but after awhile I feel like you just don't want to deal with someone elses rules and all that.

>>7117 2nd world sovblock here, as well! situation's the same!

>19 year old OP feels guilty >be about to turn 25, still living with parents as a talentless shut-in NEET with pathetic mental illness having never worked a job trust me, you don't know the half of guilt and humiliation. christ, I wish I wasn't too much of a wimp to off myself.

>>8088 >I wish I wasn't too much of a wimp to off myself. I think we all know that wish, Lain.

>>7116 I would move out as soon as possible. I left immediately at 18, and I feel like that going out on your own builds a lot of character. Besides, being around the parents is puss kryptonite.

>>8117 > being around the parents is puss kryptonite It never influenced my chances but then again I also chased after girls who were similarly NEETish because I find they make better girlfriends (at least when you're still young and drinking is cheap because you haven't developed a tolerance yet). My dad loved finding out that I'd had a "sleepover" and was always cool to the girls he met in the morning. Having girls around was the only sign of normalcy or progress I displayed.

In my opinion, 30 would be the absolute latest. I also believe that as long as you're making positive contributions to the household, working towards some long term goal of moving out, and you're on good terms with your parents, then it's okay. I'm a bit biased because I have it a bit easy (just school + majority of housework) and I get along with my folks.

>>8195 In Greece it is very normal to live with your parents until you are like 35 or later, multi-generational households are great. It is sad that this is no longer culturally normal for the United States.

I'm 19 too, OP, and I can' put up with it anymore, but not because of the ''pressure'', it's because living together is a little too tough for me, and things doesn't go on the way I'd like to here. I just wanna be at (my) home, with things I like, not being disturbed by loud sound from the radio, not being surprised by unexpected visit, to choose my own furniture and put them the way I like in my rooms, and things like that. I just wanna get a place to call my own, you know. Also, even though my mom doesn't worry about me here, I feel bad too because I'm unemployed right now, and I think to myself: ''if I were the home's provider, I'd feel better'' Anyway, 19 is a very young age (I think) Don't worry about it. >>7121 >I live in a South American country >Apologizing about ''bad'' english Olá, anão!

>>8197 In the States, young people are pressured to leave the household completely unprepared to live on their own/with complete strangers in a crowded and expensive dorm, and then struggle to survive in their 20s. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

>>8202 If you can, save as much as possible while with your folks. Try influence them not to kick you out. The world has changed greatly since the 1980's. It's possible to survive but almost impossible to thrive in major capitals in the west now unless you come from a rich family with a father/mother who has connections and you're raised to be a drone. If you grandfather is alive, ask him how he spent his life after 16 years old. In most cases, listening to his story, you will see that the problem isn't you, but the world.