how to resist torture?

there's a lot of info out there on how to keep you safe and guard your privacy but what if you get caught? what do you do then? while it might seem unlikely we know most world governments secretly use torture. cops and prosecutors have incentives to convict as many people as possible. just because you are innocent doesn't mean they won't force a confession out of you and often this can be obtained through torture. the reid method used in police interrogations is already well known and can be easily defeated. you simply refuse to comply with the interrogation, refuse to answer questions, and don't allow the interrogators to get a foothold by buying into their narrative, being goaded into talking to them, or trying to sell them a story. say nothing. but what if they decide to torture you? its hard to stay silent when someone's inflicting pain on you. noncompliance could make them hurt you even more. I can't say I know much about this topic hence me making this thread but I'm going to guess that pain will make cowards of us all. everyone has a breaking point and the aim should be delaying it as much as possible to avoid having to spill secrets or sign a false confession. one way is to give simple repetitive responses like "I don't know" or give vague information that can't be used to incriminate you. I guess if someone's hurting you then you have no choice but to bite down and try and absorb the pain. controlling breathing is often said to be one way of staying calm. but popular torture methods include electro torture and water boarding which don't leave physical evidence and disrupt your breathing and thinking. of course none of this really works if your torturers are sadists who are doing it for kicks. what do you do then? do any lains here have good info on what to do in this kind of situation?

condition yourself to be able to fap to bdsm. condition yourself to be horny when bdsm is mentioned. the result is, you get hard during the torture. your torturers might leave you alone since they will think that you enjoy the torture. if they realize you are bdsm freak they might even figure out that the best way to torture you is to not torture you.

>>49395 this actually isn't that bad of an idea, might try pavloving myself into liking if it push comes to shove

In most western countries defendants are provided with lawyers to work on their defence who would love nothing more to be able to present evidence in court that their client has been tortured. Torture is less likely in these countries than you think.

>>49397 *than to be able to present evidence

If you're being tortured for information, short answer: lie. This is the reason why torture is actually ineffective as a means of extracting information: people will say literally goddamn anything to get you to stop. If you're being tortured to extract a confession (as was the historical case which happened in totalitarian governments), or you're being tortured for the hell of it, you're kind of fuarrrked and your best bet is to escape or kill yourself before they get their mitts on you, because you're already dead if it's gotten to that point. You also don't have to be worried about being tortured by the police in a Western country (for now), because, as >>49397 said, you should never be saying anything without your lawyer in the first place, and b) actual evidence of torture is to lawyers like dope is to a sniffer dog, because it will get your case thrown out and you'll be able to counter-sue and get millions in damages. It will also provide the media with a field day and the detective(s) responsible will most definitely be fired and lose his pension. If you are being interrogated (which never involves physical torture) by the police, the magic words are: "My attorney has advised me that I should not make any comment unless he is present." Done. Clam up. Repeat as many times as needed until they get bored and leave you alone. The right to not self-incriminate is your infallible right as a citizen of a Western nation. Rule no. 1 for dealing with the police is: "shut up." The more you tell them, the easier it is for them to get a conviction. This is the foundational principle of the Reid method, which involves getting the suspect into a calm, pliable state where you're more open to talking.

>>49394 Create inviolable criteria and hold them within yourself. For example losing body parts or functionality. I don't conceive of it as possible and if it were to happen I would just force them to kill me. This metaphysically makes it impossible. If you accept otherwise though, it can and will happen

>>49397 In theory sure but in practice it all depends on trust and no I don't trust our governments. They've done it before and they'll do it again.

>>49394 >they don't know about long range torture beams

>>49397 op stated that there are tortures which don't leave physical evidence. do you agree with that? also, i wonder if your opinion about the probability of torture is popular. because if it is a general belief and everyone thinks that torture is unlikely, then that makes it harder for victims to be believed.

You guys are so naive, they dont torture people to get information for a very long time now. They either entrap and blackmail you in complex schemes that are only the one running the op knows what is going on. The other system they most likely use is to just drug you and get the information of you using substances such sodium penthathol or scopolamine and use sophisticated mind altering processes that can not only get you to tell them what they want to know, but they can program you like a computer to do their bidding for you without knowing, choosing and even without remembering any of it and using you as a patsy. Conditioning is extremely painful and requires enormous dedication and effort, which even if you have that it is likely you either mentally of physically break long before having reached this point. Seeing trough and navigating such situations require enormous intricate understanding of psychology and sociology, its a full time job almost. It should also be known that it is understood by most of these parties by now it is more reliable to affirmative means of reward to get what they want from you, which means you not only have to train yourself to resist torture but even more so temptation and reward, which can be even tougher. If you want to withstand torture, its easy, reflect your anger, hatered and spite against them and/or act crazy but even that will get you you only so far.

>>49394 Alright, after having looked into it I would say that torture is probably more common than I previously thought (at least in the United States), although I would still wager it has probably declined. Torture being a less remote possibility makes preparing for it more reasonable

>>49397 Law is very flexible when it comes to "terrorists". If what you say was true, why don't Guantanamo Bay inmates just talk to their lawyer to get out? And the definition of a terrorist is also flexible and is often applied to all potential enemies of the state, regardless if they ever commited any acts of violence or not.

>>49407 1. I was talking about domestic non-combatants 2. See Boumediene v. Bush

>>49405 what if we are currently under the influence of sophisticated mind altering to do someone's bidding and the hallucination that appears to you during the process is, apparently, lainchan? what if every time you lurk lainchan you are actually doing some hardcore missions for fbi? every reply written is in fact witty remark thrown at the people you just massacred?

there was nothing that the prisoners at abu gharib knew that their torturers didn't. they were quite simply because their country had the gall to fight the united states. >>49397 that is until the put you on a plane to an inescapable prison in a colonial outpost with no lawyers or courts for miles >>49399 >This is the reason why torture is actually ineffective as a means of extracting information which is why this only happens in hollywood movies >The right to not self-incriminate is your infallible right as a citizen of a Western nation *of the united states >>49402 >>49409 trvth nvke

>>49408 >domestic Do you never travel to other countries? Foreigners travelling to the US have recently been detained under very questionable circumstances, see for example https://www.dw.com/en/german-nationals-us-immigration-detained-interrogation-ice-donald-trump/a-71987211 Of course similar things can happen elsewhere as well. >non-combattants Many of the Guantanamo inmates are non-combattants. For example Boumediene, whom you brought up yourself. And more generally, people under suspicion of being terrorists are non-combattants most of the time >Boumediene v. Bush improved conditions for two years, then justice was not seen as important again: >In 2010 the D.C. Circuit Court began requiring federal judges to stop submitting the government's evidence to such rigorous examination. The appeals court said judges must embrace a pro-government presumption that the Guantánamo evidence is reliable. Government lawyers had argued that such a presumption was justified because much of the evidence against the detainees was collected under battlefield conditions amid the "fog of war". Specifically, the US appeals court required federal judges hearing Guantánamo cases to accord a special presumption of accuracy to US intelligence reports being used to justify continued detention.

>>49394 I misused the term domestic. I was attempting to refer to citizens or residents of a country, and to others who the legal protections and rights still apply (e.g. tourists visiting). Guantanamo housed those captured abroad and designated enemy combatants, and so I felt it didn't apply to what I was saying. ICE detentions are more recent and don't really carry an incentive to torture (although it probably happens anyway because people who sign up for immigration enforcement are generally the most dysgenic specimens society has to offer). Eitherway there probably would be consequences to torturing German nationals, but the previous predominant constitutional paradigm is being dismantled, so who knows. >Many of the Guantanamo inmates are non-combatants I'm going to assume you meant "were" rather than "are", because there are about 15 detainees currently, and most of them seem to be high ranking al-qaeda members, and about three of them are held without charges or upcoming transfer. Eitherway, I would argue that Guantanamo detainees did eventually have access to legal recourse, substantial barriers notwithstanding, which presuming you were the original lainon would undermine your point that they had no means to challenge their detention. >In 2010.. They still have legal recourse. Whether that state of affairs should be the case is a different conversation.

>>49399 >This is the reason why torture is actually ineffective as a means of extracting information. That's not true. Torture can work it depends on what the objective of the torturer is. If the goal is to spread fear, punish someone or just sexual sadism, then it works very well. Torture can't be used to extract complex information because stress damages memory, but for less cognitively complex pieces of info (names, passwords) it can work. And torture is often used to force confessions, where the goal isn't to get information out of the victim but force them to sign something or admit to something. >>49412 Initially, Gitmo detainees didn't have any real legal recouse to challenge either their detention or their conditions until the Boumedine vs Bush decision. They are still technically 'unlawful' enemy combatants so the Geneva convention doesn't apply to them and they have very limited rights under US law. Gitmo has fallen out of use. Instead, the US operates dozens of mini gunatanamos inside US supermax prisons (CMUs) we don't know what goes on in these because of total commumication black outs. All of this is immaterial. Just because you have a set of rights under law doesn't mean the government is obliged to respect them. You might not even have the resources to bring it up at trial, many false criminal convictions involved coerced confessions with the victim unable to get adequate legal representation. There's also the problem of accountability. Torture is forbidden by the US military but this rule isn't enforced consistemtly. US troops abroad are notorious for torture, it even filtered down to the infantry, but almost noone was charged for this..

hmmm, where is Kubark ? has it not been brought up yet, are there other documents /hidden gems ?

>>49418 The 1963 KUBARK manual and the 1983 CIA Human Resources Exploitation Training manual are all here on the National Security Archive https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB122/#hre The post-9/11 war on terror torture also used techniques from SERE training. The 1983 CIA manual seems widely used throughout the world, but some governments have added new techniques that aren’t in the manual (Egypt and Syria used to rape prisoners with dogs for example, Argentina used electro torture). These methods are designed to leave no physical trace. Much harder to resist being sodomized or fried with a car battery.

>>49394 Disassociation. I've heard from torture survivors that what they do is mentally diassassociate their inner self from their body parts and convince themselves that the body part is hurting but not their inner self. Once the body succumbs to intense pain, people get used to it. They get used to it and become desensitized. The pain in one limb will cancel out the other. Eventually people become numb to it. This is why CIA torture manuals say that if a person successfully resists initial torture, it becomes harder and harder to successfully extract info or confession through torture. I've heard from Gitmo survivors that what they tried to do was keep mentally focused, disassociate from their body parts, and keep a mantra or prayer in their head. Whenever they got the chance, they'd breathe and try to control their breathing. Baaically, in a torture session you are just trying to bite down and survive it.

>>49430 most torture is psychological, not physical. The most tried and true is prolonged isolation and being prevented from sleep. I believe things like "water torture" are just means to that end. After a few days or weeks of not being able to sleep, you will not be lucid. You will not be able to think straight. You will crack. Whether that means they get anything useful out of you is something else entirely...

>>49431 I would be surprized that no chemicals get involved. I mean, by just giving a drug against inhibition you can amke any girl agree to sleep with you and it's considered rape, so I can't imagine that the glowies who have no problem with torture would not have an entire pharmacy with them.

>>49432 Yeah but if you want information, how are you going to trust anything you get from a guy who's zoinked up? For sure there's been attempts to concoct a "truth serum", but if any were successful, they would be widely used and known.

>>49438 The soviets had a serum that make you cry like a baby and seek a protective figure. Tell me that Vladimir have told his services to not use it anymore.

>>49432 That too, we know for a fact they experimented a lot with LSD for this purpose. However, I doubt it is possible to produce a drug that reliably causes any hyper-specific emotional response. Instead I think they would just give you something highly disorienting.