Any advice for living in the dark present?

Normally I'd just go outside, but since it's arguably nicer in here than it is out there I'll gather the opinions of you Lainons. What's some advice? I'm currently in my 20's and single, no real connections or close family to rely on, stuck putting myself through school and working a night shift, etc. It's getting so bad that sometimes, I'll buy that cheap dog kibble soykaf as food so I can pay the rent and save enough to buy "people food". I know I'll get out of it eventually, and it isn't like I don't practice that "self care" stuff. I work out, shower, clean my dishwasher, things that some people seem incapable of. I'm just doing my best to scrape by and make a life for myself eventually. Given that fact, I'm wondering if you all have any tips on how to keep my mind chugging along with my body. I feel like I'm falling into the motions, and without a woman (or man, I'm not picky anymore), life sometimes gets crushingly lonely and kind of meaningless. Like, who am I struggling like this for? Myself? Do I really deserve all this? I dunno, I'm just rambling at this point, but I'd love to hear your opinions.

>Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None The book talks about the thing you mentioned. Stuff like being lonely (He sees it as a cool thing) and what to look out for in friends and such. Also in chapter 2 or 3 he roasts a dude so hard I laughed for 5 mins straight. If you are lazy with reading I think Weltgeist made a video summarizing it on their YouTube page.

>>34543 Thanks; I'll see if I can get my hands on a copy, digital or otherwise. Also, what do you think of the dating situation? I know a partner can be a financial burden and one I probably can't afford to be the sole supporter of, but if they weren't a fuarking leech, do you think it would do me some good mentally to find someone? Or should I focus on myself and potentially miss out on my biological peak in attractiveness? I guess the big question is this: should I look for happiness in possible success and potentially miss out on love? Or search for love and possibly find it and potentially suffer financially?

>>34543 >He sees it as a cool thing Then you misunderstood it. Being alone to think and consider things is just as important as being around the general population.

>>34542 sweet mother of fuarrrk OP. I'm going to help you out here. I may be harsh at points but know that it comes from a place of love. For real. Anyway, first, let's address this: >I'll buy that cheap dog kibble soykaf as food so I can pay the rent and save enough to buy "people food". This is borderline retarded. If you live in any even remotely western-ish country, you can buy things like beans, lentils, and all manner of other dirt-cheap (yes, even now) dried foods. Buy beans/lentils and mix with cheap frozen vegetables. For protein, eggs might be too expensive right now, so buy a tub of bulk protein powder, the kind /fit/ guys use. Make a shake every day with at least 24 grams, even if you just have to mix it up with water (it will be gross but it's protein). Get a cheap multivitamin bottle if you can afford it. Everything I've described here WILL BE CHEAPER THAN DOG FOOD. >and without a woman (or man, I'm not picky anymore) I can't even. Don't give us that homo soykaf OP, you're better than that. If you're an actual user that's fine, but if it's some pitiful "well I can't get a girlfriend so I guess dude butthole will have to suffice" kind of situation, that's just sad. NO. I don't care how ugly or poor you are, there are available vaginas out there. Speaking of which:

>>34544 >Also, what do you think of the dating situation? You're in your 20s, I'm guessing the earlier part rather than the latter part. Don't even bother with women right now. Get your own soykaf together. You really shouldn't even be thinking about women from a relationship perspective until you're in your late 20s, hell these days probably 30. If you need to get laid, or you're a virgin, wait until you have some extra cash and just get a hooker. There is no such thing as an incel if you have a spare $200. "B-but I want a girl who looooves me." If you're being honest with yourself, you're probably just looking to get your dick wet, not finding your soulmate. That kind of thing can come later. Again, focus on you. Get income streams online, upgrade your living situation, start dressing better, etc and women will come to you. Don't pick the first one who comes along, wait until you find one that you really click with. She will probably be much younger than you. The natural order of things pairs an older, established man, with a younger, fertile female. When you're 30 you should be looking for a woman 18-25, no more. She will love and appreciate everything you can teach her, and you'll appreciate the affection provided by a "hot young babe" that your peers could only wish they had (when you're that age, look around - your friends will be dating single mothers). >do you think it would do me some good mentally to find someone? absolutely not, no. not right now. You need to be able to confidently operate your own soykaf before you have a woman around. If you meet a girl now and fall head over heels, and then she leaves your dumb ass for someone else, you'll really find out what depression is. You don't need that. Get a hooker and/or learn to love masturbation - jerking off is actually pretty great. Nofap is a cult, but definitely use pornography in moderation. Jack off to get the poison out, not as a hobby. Cum so you can get it off your mind and work on something productive.

>should I look for happiness in possible success and potentially miss out on love? Or search for love and possibly find it and potentially suffer financially? Don't be ridiculous. You can have both. But success, at least to the degree that you're not eating literal dog food, has to come first.

Finally OP, I think you need to cut yourself some slack and relax. The world we live in today was not the world of our fathers or their fathers. It's messed up, and it's way harder, but you can still make it. If you need financial advice I suspect other lainons will be happy to give it to you if you explain your situation a bit more.

But don't beat yourself up for not having a big truck and a big chested wife and 4 kids at 23 years old or whatever old people fantasy you've been brainwashed into believing you have to live up to. Roof over your head, food (not kibble), and a plan to grow your nestegg. Some paid for poonani on the weekends. That's good enough for current year. And once you're there, you can iterate on your plans and go to higher and higher levels. Oh, and don't waste your time mentally beating off with Zara-whatever-stra. Read things like David Allen's Getting Things Done and nonfiction books related to your fields of interest, preferably those that can provide you with knowledge helpful to generating income.

>constant error, please make a better post >constant flood detected >never knowing what "no no" words are triggering the board Lainchan PLS, I'm trying to save this man's life for "fuarrk's" sake. Anyway OP good luck and let us know if you have questions.

Thanks to all of you, honestly... I guess I'm not super great at thinking for myself (our institution teaches people to be employees and little more), but I know what I need to do now. Glad to find a reasonably sane community to voice my thoughts in. Thanks for the minimal judgment, and yeah, I'm getting out of my financial hole as we speak; it's just a slow process... Honestly, the only reason I had been keeping a relationship in my mind is that just someone to talk to and share my grievances with sounds really nice to me. I don't really have any friends in realspace, but I guess I don't need them at the moment. I'm glad I can find community here with y'all.

>>34548 It is retarded without mega context, but there's this one place by where I am that sells these HUGE ass tubs of the stuff. It's cheaper in the long run when I'm absolutely DEAD BROKE (one tub can last up to 5 weeks on 3 meals a day) and it's kinda like a protein cereal (?) But yeah. I've been eating better this past month, 2023 is kinda "my year" in terms of getting my life together. Thanks for the tough love tho :) And about the homo soykaf, I don't even think I'm interested in sex rn. It's more the companionship but I get where ur coming from.

>>34549 I get what you're saying. I wouldn't consider myself an "incel" in the first place. I simply don't think that I'd have outstanding success in the dating world in this modern climate. I know I can't/couldn't date a supermodel, but let's all be honest; who would want to? That's an unhealthy expectation for an unlikely lifestyle, in my opinion.

>>34557 I didn't mean to call you specifically an incel, sorry. I basically mean that the ideology itself is flawed, so don't fall into it. Because think about it. Prostitutes exist. Being "involuntarily celibate" means that you are celibate because you can't do anything about it - you have NO options. My point is that you CANNOT say that you're involuntarily celibate if you have $200 in your pocket. There are women who will absolutely have intercourse with you for that amount of money within the next two hours, guaranteed. This deeply triggers the incel because they so want and need to have the "incel" identity, when the reality is, they actually DO have standards. They think they're too good for a prostitute. And a note about hookers. They're not all nasty. I guarantee you there are college girls who have NEVER had sex for money who have higher body counts than some actual prostitutes. Some escorts are just slutty girls who want to get paid to fuarrrk. But anyway, be careful of being caught up in any ideology or group, especially online. Incels, mgtows, nofap, racial stuff, gender stuff, sexuality stuff... it's all a stupid waste of time.

Also OP I want you to know that you don't have to close yourself off to the idea of finding a woman completely (having said that, you're clearly not a homosexual, so please DO forget the idea of finding a man). If the right girl happens to come along, that's great. But you'll never find her if you're looking for her. Let me explain. There's a certain zen when it comes to pussy. If you desperately want a woman, you NEED a girlfriend, you HAVE to get laid... you're not going to get any of that. The moment you stop caring and genuinely find yourself in a place where you really aren't craving those things, they'll come into your life. It's paradoxical, I know. If you want me to explain WHY this is, let me know and I'll get into the details, but basically the long and short of it is that women can smell desperation. Women are also a lot more insecure than you might think. "If he's this interested in me, he probably doesn't have much going on for him." Whereas if you really don't care, and you just treat her the same as you would anyone else, she'll think, "What's the deal? Why isn't he slobbering all over me? He must have something going on for him, and now I'm curious." You'll know this is true because most guys have had this experience, or at least know of someone who has. You can't get a date, can't get laid, can't meet anyone. By hook or by crook you manage to get yourself a girlfriend. She's pretty cute too. Now ALL THE SUDDEN all these other chicks start coming out of the woodwork - they're interested in you. But you have a girlfriend! Where were they a year ago when you were alone in your room edging to dominant mommy pov videos?!?! In conclusion, don't close your heart to the possibility of love (WITH A WOMAN), but don't be all freaked out because you don't have it yet.

>>34556 It's better than starving but you can do better. There's also a lot of cheap easy stuff on https://based.cooking/

>>34542 >It's getting so bad that sometimes, I'll buy that cheap dog kibble soykaf as food this is terrible. diet is very important. Keep an eye out for i.e. good meat deals and fill your freezer with 2 dollar/pound beef. There frequently are schedules where the best deals are, make sure to go to stores at these times (grocery meats its frequently early morning, may depend where you are).

>>34567 No sorry needed fellow Lainon. One point I think is interesting is, while your point is over 9,000% valid, it doesn't really apply to my current situation because, right now, I don't even think I'd be in a relationship "for the sex". The idea of prostitutes is perfectly okay to me, but it doesn't really seem like much my thing. At this stage in time, I find myself more drawn to the emotional intimacy and companionship a good relationship can provide.

>>34569 Thank you MILLIONS for this. I tried the meatloaf recipe tonight, and I gotta say it's probably the most balanced, delicious homecooked meal I've had in a while.

>>34573 I didn't mean to hammer the point about women overmuch; but I think some of the stuff said in this thread is important for younger men to know. It really just sounds like you're looking for a friend. Easier said than done, I know. Have you gotten involved in any online communities that aren't full of nutjobs/sjws/etc? They do exist, believe it or not. If IRL friendship is more your thing, what opportunities do you have for that? It's a huge cliche, but volunteering is a way to meet people outside of work. Friends don't have to be your age either - it's perfectly acceptable to get to know people older or younger than yourself. There are all kinds of clubs and other normal person soykaf you can get into too. Some other lainon is going to have to step in here because meatspace pals isn't really my forte. Like Al Bundy said, "Friends: don't need 'em, don't want 'em, and sure as hell don't want to watch 'em." Or something to that effect.

>>34549 What a disgusting post. You sound like that dude who thinks he's figured it all out and is now obligated to spoon-feed his step-by-step guide of 'YOU SHOOD NOT!!1's and 'YA GOTTA!!2's to the rest, forcefully (judging by your tone). Of course, you are incorrect as well. Regardless, your early and mid 20s are crucial to your social development. It is the time to get girlfriends and go to parties, meet people and interact with them - not to set some prices up for the future (although this will definitely happen, too), but to learn. Usually, social interactions before, I'd say, ~28 are all about learning. One thing our guru here is right about, though, is that you should focus on yourself. Or not. You'd have to learn to figure that one out, too. My point in short - focusing on 'self' before that 'self' is at least somewhat developed and ready to face the world (that includes itself) could be potentially dangerous for your mental health, bearing consequences deadlier than those of, say, a breakup or an occasional drama (those, in fact, could be quite beneficial). The guy I'm replying to seems to be ignorant of that. Also, >just get a hooker, it's all in ya balls, brooo. ...some people's intelligence, indeed, appears to originate somewhere in that area.

>>34576 >Regardless, your early and mid 20s are crucial to your social development. It is the time to get girlfriends and go to parties, meet people and interact with them Hard disagree. Not that anon but anyone can practice socialization at any age. It's a skill that have to be practiced just as anything else. You could be an awkward 50 year old, decide you want to live the normal person party life, work on yourself and practice socialization. There is plenty of time in life to develop socially, it's foolish to think it's a "make or break" thing solely for your 20's. We only tend to think that because retard college kids party in their 20's. For reference, I'm well into adulthood, have been a social retard most of my life, decided to try and make normal person friends. I learned how to interact by practicing with small interactions while shopping. Eventually I could easily converse with people, make them laugh, but when it came to having normal person friends, it's like oil and water. I don't relate to them and I felt like I had a costume on, being something I'm not in order to blend in with the average joe. Not everyone is built for the normal person party life, but you can still find friends in other regards - ones that you can be yourself around. In my experience it's much easier to find that online. I don't know how OPs social skills or preferences are, but you can choose between real life normal person friends or online friends. Just because a friend is online doesn't mean the relationship isn't real, and you can always meet up if desired. You also have plenty of time to party if that's something you desire.

It seems like one of your main desires is to have a human connection with someone. It doesn't have to be romantic, in fact, some of my closest relationships have been platonic. As men we tend to really desire a woman because they can offer us friendship and make us cum. But, most women can't relate to the struggles a man typically faces, which is something you want to confide in with someone. Most young women have an easier time compared to a younger man. If you want someone to vent to with little judgement, a man is more likely to fit your description. However, remember that I said this relationship does not have to be sexual. I don't think you're particularly looking for a romantic relationship, and I don't think you're a homosexual man. You're probably just lonely and to a point where you'd accept anything now. Don't start going gay because you're lonely. Improve yourself and in time you will have the right woman come along. I am antisocial in real life, but have made great solid friendships online. Join IRC servers that relate to your interests, be more social in video games. I get along really well with autistic people online, they have less judgement and you can't really screw up around them, and can talk with you for hours about stupid sh it. They will love you because most other people are dicks and make fun of them. If you're nice they will be a great friend. Whatever works, just my two cents.

>>34577 I've never meant to imply it's not possible to socialise later on, only that, just like you can learn a language or learn to play an instrument at any age, starting early is still preferable psychologically/neurologically. Your personality development is nearly done, and if you miss out on learning how to connect to people in a meaningful way during that time, you'll have unnecessarily hard(-er) times learning it later, not to mention most people would be past that stage already, making it even harder to get back on track. And they do the partying at their twenties precisely 'cause it's the most appropriate age to do it, not because some institution imposes it on everyone of them; if you ask lains who're concerned about these topics around here, I bet you'd find out most of them, too, are in their twenties.

>>34579 Dude the guy is eating dog food and your advice is that he should be going to parties? Really?

>>34580 if he gets to the right parties he will have access to free or quite cheap drink, food, and a nice chance to socialize to boot. Whats wrong with it ?

>>34542 > I'll buy that cheap dog kibble Major wtf dude. You should either be stealing food or otherwise acquiring it for yourself if this is happening. It is incredibly easy to steal a reasonable amount of food from most grocery stores. Just make sure you go to a store that isn't near you.

>>34581 Then you're relying on parties for your meals. This is retarded. What's he going to do, down the whole bowl of chips and look like a weirdo? Drink some spiked punch? He should just buy cheap vegetables and beans. The dude should work on himself, parties can come later. I think most people here aren't fit for the party lifestyle anyway. People at parties are turbo normal people, you're likely not going to find your best friend at one. Plus, parties usually happen when you have a friend who knows someone who's hosting a party. This idea is jumping the gun, the guy doesn't even have one friend yet. He should work on finding a person he really clicks with, not a group of drunk normal people.

>>34599 >the party lifestyle anyway. the fuarrrk is the 'party lifestyle' parties are common, everyone has a party once in a while if they're not a total shutin. When I throw a party I usually serve dinner and drinks. If you get invited to a party, for heavens sake don't refuse because you're poor. If you find a good one, just go, have a good time, maybe some free food too. Obviously don't design your diet around it though wtf. >He should just buy cheap vegetables and beans. idk I think the ideal diet most likely varies by ethnicity + local market details. Many places meat is cheap enough, just eat a lot of cheap meat. A gallon of milk is like 2k calories and just a couple dollars. With modern grocerystores, you should never need to eat dogfood or potatos if you don't want to. >This idea is jumping the gun, he aint got no friends yet sure, though I'd point out here this is a pretty good reason to, if he gets invited to a party that even vaugely looks interesting and isn't inconvenient, he should go. Worst case scenario, hangs out talking to boring people for a bit, eats some free food, goes home, and its possible he makes some friends. Some parties are terrible I'm sure but if you're getting invited there's a good chance you'll fit in, invitor is prescreening you and thinks you might.

>>34601 Literally everyone in my friend group hasn't gone to a party. We're "shutins" who hate people like you. The term "party lifestyle" falls in line with your personality. You're probably someone who likes the company of people, gets satisfaction physically being around others, likes the sound of others talking and being around you. Whereas I am just wanting to leave the whole time, am tense, dislike people even looking at me, stand awkwardly in a corner alone. If you're a loner who just wants one person on this Earth to relate to, you'd likely get overwhelmed when surrounded by multiple people, such as in a party. These days I'd wager most younger people dislike gatherings of people, since most of them have social anxiety. This is why most people communicate online, even if they know each other in person. I wouldn't rule out parties, maybe our friend OP would like them, but it feels like a normal person copout to someone who may be a nerd. I know for a fact I wouldn't fit in at a party. I think you can't comprehend how different some of us are. I suspect the man eating dog food doesn't closely relate to your average party goer. Realistically, he should look online for friends if he wants a friend quicker, a bigger pool of personalities to select from, instantly select people related to his specific interests, and the chance to easily end the friendship with no strings attached if he dislikes the friend.

>>34603 I have all the same characteristics as you and I enjoy some parties, particularly small ones among friends. You may be thinking of high school/college house parties with tons of strangers drinking booze and fuarrrking, but that's not the only kind of party. >These days I'd wager most younger people dislike gatherings of people, since most of them have social anxiety. Social anxiety is only a problem if it makes you anxious to do things you want to do. For example, I have mild-moderate agoraphobia, walking around in public is typically very stressful for me, but I still want to do it. Therefore I usually try to go out with a friend, which helps.

>>34603 >Literally everyone in my friend group hasn't gone to a party. honest suggestion: throw a party, invite your friends its generally fun. if you don't find it fun then IDK what sorts of people these friends of yours are but they're probably not your friends.

>>34607 the internet used to be for grad students to soykafpost while ostensibly doing research. Unless you're a true old user (I doubt it, from your writing style I'm guessing you are 25 years old at most) you never experienced 'the old wired'. Being antisocial isn't a personality.

>>34607 man, I tell ya. First day I come onto a chan and people immediately started calling me an old f@g. Now years later I am an old f@g and I get called a Norman invader. For what its worth, I once was like you. Was the worst period of my life. Reason I support what you call Normandy is because it worked pretty well for me, and funneling people into the resentful, solitary, internet shutin lifestyle strikes me as an evil. Internet is nice, good way to meet people, talk to people sometimes far away, yadda yadda. That's why I'm still here. And yeah thanks for the idea, I probably should go on a hike now that you mention it.

>>34611 I could use a hike but there's a fat storm on right now. Been too long though. Maybe when the storm is over I'll go walk around in the woods :)

>>34575 nta, hope to not hijack the thread too much, any tips for finding online communities and friends if that's your forte? >they do exist, believe it or not i can't really find anything, maybe i am too shy lain...

>>34609 >the internet used to be for grad students to soykafpost while ostensibly doing research. Jesus Christ, can you get any more normal person? Maybe that's what it was for you, because your solution to eating dog food and living a lonely life is "just party get friends bro!11!". Computers and the old internet used to scare away normal people, you needed a brain to install programs and get online. I was there and saw the changes happening in real time, this is why it pisses me off when you people continue to shove your normal person ideology in places that should be sacred. normal people made fun of computer users back when only nerds used computers, now you glitterboys can't live without your spy device you call a phone. >Being antisocial isn't a personality. Personality is built around what you like and dislike. If you're a very social person, it is part of your personality. Vice versa.

>>34611 I'm very content with my life. Just because someone dislikes parties, in person socializing, and normal people doesn't mean they're miserable. We are two different types of people. You just think that if someone dislikes normal person socialization, that they must be miserable, because you were miserable in that situation. We all have preferences. You can still be happy and socialize while never leaving your room. You can also mostly enjoy being at home, socialize online, while sometimes going out. It's not an all or nothing attitude, and just because you're "shut in" doesn't mean you're resentful, angry, a loser, etc. For some, it's a comfy way to live, not all of us enjoy the rat race, but we find enjoyment out of being at home, just like a housecat. Either way, a label doesn't need to be put onto you. Just figure out what you like or dislike, and take action from there. OP is craving companionship quick, he can find that online. It doesn't mean it's less than or makes you miserable, trust me. He also seems very busy, likely not a ton of time for parties and networking. Relaxing and playing video games would be easier to quickly meet friends.

Is kibble-anon (OP) still here? I want his thoughts on the argument brewing. Will the solution to his problems be going to parties to steal delicious hors d'oeuvres while building his atrophied social skills? Speaking of which, has he been eating well since the meatloaf he made recently? How has he been holding up? What does he do for work? Does he live alone or with roommates? I have so many questions and find myself strangely invested in how this all plays out.

>>34617 I've been holding up alright, thanks. I work a night shift as a security guard for a retail establishment, and yes, I have been eating better. I do think that party soykaf is a little far-fetched for me, considering I don't really have any friends to speak of at this moment. I live alone, and am rarely in my own apartment during the week due to both university and my job. I'm not super into stealing food as some Lainons suggested but yeah. My recent grocery trip should last me a good two or three weeks thanks to Based Cooking-Anon, so thanks a million again. I do think the argument was/is slightly unnecessary but I'm kind of invested in it too.

>>34615 >Maybe that's what it was for you, It wasn't, because I wasn't even alive back then. I'm just saying the actual history of the internet. We're (almost certainly) in the same boat of being late to the party, I just don't claim to be "OG" because I once used IRC. >this is why it pisses me off when you people continue to shove your normal person ideology in places that should be sacred lmao. Yes our sacred internet, a place of sublime beauty akin to a cathedral. Definitely not filled with porn. >Personality is built around what you like and dislike On the absolute surface level, maybe. Listing off the things you like and dislike actually says very little of consequence about you, though. >>34617 same. I like the idea of OP just becoming a socialite for the sole purpose of stealing food. Honestly, school is mainly useful for making connections(friendship and professional/academic). If you're not doing that then it's just a money and time drain. Also, meatspace friends are important, from a survival standpoint if not from a mental health standpoint. Being alone makes you very vulnerable. Find a hobby group, unionize your workplace, go to a bar, sneak into parties, find roommates, whatever. It's necessary.

>>34546 Yes.... but the only way to find your virtues and meanings are in yourself, but also right friends help you out what not to be (when he talks about seeing the enemy in your friend and soykaf) I was pretty tired while posting and just wanted to recommend something that helped me so I didn't want to write an essay on explaining it. >>34544 >miss out on my biological peak in attractiveness One thing I noticed is that girls don't really mind having a older bf as much as guys having a older gf. For example beard growth only really starts in the late 20s to 30s. I would even argue that guys in their 50s can look better then dudes in their 20s. >I know a partner can be a financial burden and one I probably can't afford to be the sole supporter of, but if they weren't a fuarking leech Then don't be the sole supporter. Many women work nowadays. >do you think it would do me some good mentally to find someone? Yes and no. It really depends. You shouldn't feel blinded by love and honestly maybe not even take it too serious, because what often happens is that people get real depressed when relationships end and buddy they will end, especially when you are young. So when you are in a relationship you should probably just enjoy the moment and not overthink the future. >potentially suffer financially I don't know where you live, but honestly you could work 20 hours per week and get a real trashy apartment and just eat oatmeal and spent the rest of the time with stuff you like.... or go the other route of doing what you like for a living which is also harder to archive in some sense. The important question should rather be "What do you truly like doing?" Personally, I have no idea if I will ever find true love other than for music and honestly I don't really care too much as long as the woman isn't christian and too shy. I also would like to be a teacher in some regards, but also a student in the relationship, because when it ends, you still profited from knowledge. When it comes to children.... I probably won't have any till my 40s or something, I don't really want them to be in public school or frankly with any other children with their stupid parents. When it comes to children I want them to not be born with the lies that where put onto me. Stuff like "long nails = feminine" which I know is a social construct and changing trough time and cultures, yet it's so deep inside of me that I can't get over it. I see it as a goal not to teach my children, at least when they are young, about that.

>>34603 Yeah, that's what I was talking about in >>34576 (every other post apart from this and the >>34579 is not mine btw). Toe it seems like your ego-centricity is being a little too ontological, lain, viewing your -self- as a monolithic hypostasis of the ultimate truth of -you- and a gauge to life in general - which it absolutely isn't. You are 'built different'. Built by who? The lifestyle of yours, or the -you-, is just a reflective collective of the environmental conditions you've been exposed to. Were you to 'party' (or whatever) more and stay home less, you'd be a different person by now. You'd be a different person in 5 years from now on were you to start 'partying' today. (Although, it's far easier to learn than to lelearn, like I've said in that post earlier.) Now, I don't imply you're a mere puppet of no will or action potential of it's own, on the contrary - it is that spark of qualia that is necessary to adhere to what I'm saying to begin with. And what I'm saying is that going to parties or whatever is nothing on it's own, it is in your head that it attains values like 'fuarrrkshit for normos' or 'fun time to have', and that headspace of yours is as fluid and open to change as you can allow it to be (well, not -that- much if you're extraordinary enthusiastic about it, but still). Would you curse yourself were you to awaken one day, realising you somehow started enjoying parties? Would you then become a 'normalf@g scum' yourself? (Sudden Kafka vibes.) This isn't a mockery by any means. You applaud your lifestyle (>>34616) for being effective, at the same time acknowledging everyone is different, yet still advice others who you merely believe to resemble similarly with you to follow your step-by-steps, and in doing so, are simply defending your ego more than anything, really. It is hardly help, and I think that's why people like op end up eating dog food. >>34613 Have fun out there!

>>34542 I'm basically in a similar position to you. What I did was move to another city, get a day job, and my own place and start cooking food for myself. Just build some endurance and take little steps, like slowly increasing the number of days you cook your own food rather than buying out. >I'll buy that cheap dog kibble soykaf as food There are a few things you should spare no expense on and the top of the list is food. I grew up poor but we never went without good food and my parents taught me that you can always make sacrifices elsewhere to spend on quality food because your body and mind need good nutrition to survive and age properly. It depends on your financial situation, but take a look at what expense you can cut and put it into some good meals, even if its just two a day. >>34576 >Regardless, your early and mid 20s are crucial to your social development. It is the time to get girlfriends and go to parties, meet people and interact with them - not to set some prices up for the future This is a problem I'm having right now too. From junior high right through today (I'm now going on 28), I pretty much became a loner and never made any friends, gone on a date etc. So basically, it's like I'm severely developmentally and emotionally stunted. The loneliness is unbearable but when I get into even a basic friendship with someone it tends to fall apart quickly because I don't have the emotional skills to manage it and by the time your in your late 20s most people don't put up with those who are slow to catch up. >>34581 When your a shut in you don't go to parties because you don't feel you should be there. It's a pretty debilitating feeling seeing all those happy faces and thinking all you can do is screw it up so just don't go in. Telling a person who's already deep in that state to go to parties could just make things worse if they're not ready for it. Sure, it depends on what kind of party it is, but if you turn up and seem strange or off putting you will be ostracized and that's just going to make life worse. It's also dumb to rely on parties for food because nothing is never for free, if you go to a party the hosts and guests usually want something in return (positive social interaction) and if you don't give them that your not getting invited next time and if your invited by work/school colleagues you can easily become ostracized there too. >>34609 Which internet was the old wired? The ARPANET? The old hobbyist computer culture of 80s? I experienced the old internet of the 2000s lurking on forums and chan sites since childhood, but back then I remember older internet users complaining and praising an even older internet and I'm sure in the 90s there were people who hated the wired and missed punch cards, BASIC, and library micro computers.

>>34623 How hard did you stroke yourself while writing that pseudointellectual drivel? Was it good for you, baby?

>>34626 Feeling insecure all of a sudden, sweety? Let me touch your private parts gently to ease the anxiety. But, you are right, I wish I was fluent enough to write casually. Touching part is still relevant, though.

>>34628 >>34626 I don’t even have words for this…

>>34638 here I have words for both of them FUARRRRRRKKK YOU, FATTOGS >>34624 >it's like I'm severely developmentally and emotionally stunted this is why OP should go out and socialize, make IRL connexions, and totally bypass this pittrap that a lot of people around this community fall into. He's younger than you, less set in his ways. >dumb to go to parties for free food, nuffin is never free My experience of university is that its a bit of a weird world. Lots of departments throw little parties/events and also have money to do it, not a ton of money but enough to put out food. If he has an excuse at all to be there its perfectly OK and normal to go and eat/socialize. House parties a little different, but yeah if you're a horrible guest they'll probably not invite you again. Still worth going, trying to meet people, etc etc. University just plain isn't worth it if you don't come away with connexions, hardly even worth it for most people who do.

"Just party bro" isn't the solution to OP's problems. What happened to this site? I partied when I was in my early 20s like OP. Had a big social circle, lots of friends. I was a certifiable "normal person". Went through a falling out with my roommates after I lost my job. The falling out wasn't because I lost my job, but not being able to pay rent for a couple months didn't help. I figured I would be fine, after all, I knew lots of people. All those friends I had? Suddenly became very busy when I needed a couch to crash on or something to eat. The girl I was seeing got tired of me "not making anything of myself" pretty quickly too. People don't want to be friends with someone who can't take care of themselves, or someone who doesn't really even know themselves. OP has plenty of time for socializing after he figures himself out and gains some confidence in his own abilities. This idea that if you don't socialize when you're young you'll be "forever stunted" is honestly just not true. I run with completely different crowds these days and I know some guys who were bullied, hated school, lived with their parents, became shutins, etc. They really didn't blossom (e.g., figure out money, meeting a wife/girlfriend, feeling a sense of self-worth) until they were in their 30s. OP will be fine but he needs to figure himself out before he can figure out other people. There are plenty of books on self improvement, socializing, etc he can read and slowly build those skills up, if he desires them.

>>34641 Preferring to stay at is not a trap. Just because it would feel like a restraint for you does not mean it's a burden for others. A lot of us are more comfortable when at home, and some are better socially online. Plus, after working 8 hours each day, 5 days a week can leave us with tired and wanting to unwind at home. Not all of us have the desire to party or engage in the endless stream of politically correct small talk that takes place in school, work, and social functions. That being said, if OP does want to eventually socialize in parties, making friends online is a good way to practice social skills. In my experience, people online are leaps and bounds more interesting to talk to. IRL social functions are limiting, unless you don't mind constantly holding your true thoughts and opinions back. It depends what interests OP has and how common those interests are to come by in your average normal person. Some people easily relate to your average person, others have specific interests that are hard to come by. I'm curious what OP will do, either way I wish him the best.

>>34646 >Preferring to stay at [home] is not a trap. bro, I get what you're saying, I get that some people are maybe like this (though to be fair, every indoor cat I've met has always been trying to get outside), but there's clearly people on this site (for instance >>34624 ) who seem to think it can be a trap. To be clear when I'm talking about parties and I realize this isn't always clear, what I'm imagining is much more on the lines of university department picnics and get togethers of ~5-15 people who all are friends of the host, much more than IDK what you guys are thinking but this 'le party scene' just seems pretty crazy to me. Far as I can tell universities are full of these little get togethers and department social events, all the ones I've been to are quiet enough you can talk, and especially the higher you get in uni, the more they are full of autistic people who stand around talking and maybe drinking a little while not making much eyecontact. The host might be less autistic than the average but in this context autism is what he expects, tolerates to a reasonable degree, and even a little bit caters to. Ive been to a lot of events like this. >>34645 this is an interesting take, sorry that happened to you and that is not my experience with freinds.

>>34645 You're a normal person with normal person problems and normal person advice for normal people. You cannot erase decades of relative deprivation and lack of exposure by just "blossoming" (I despise that term by the way, along with "late bloomer", delusional and utterly repulsive just like the things they're describing) in your 30's. It simply doesn't work that way.

I hate the dismissive normal people in this thread as if I could just decide one day to be like them. They really have no clue what it's like

Uh excuse me I thought I was on lainchan not some fuarrrked up normal internet wall what's happened to this website? Go to parties? As if the lains here would derive any satisfaction from that? Or is it so diluted now you guys don't know what being a lain is.

>>34658 The retarded gen-z population make being in "uni" their identity. They shove it into every sentence they can. When you tell them that they don't belong here, they get highly defensive and act like you're in the wrong. They infiltrate places they don't belong and slowly turn every place they touch into Reddit 2.0.

>>34659 I grew up in a rural area. You just describe urbanites, it's all they're capable of and they've been doing it forever. We called them transplants. They run away from where they belong, and then fight to turn wherever they went into what they just left. Broken, miserable creatures.

You should get on EBT. If you're not American, there's possibly a similar program for you. It's there for people like you who are struggling and can't afford the basics. There's no shame in taking help when you need it, and having healthy food to eat will help you feel better overall. Dog food is usually mostly wheat flour, so that's what's probably keeping you full rather than protein. Gluten is pretty soykaf for your body. The protein in dog food is animal byproducts, basically whatever meat scrapings they have left go into it. All my dogs I've given kibble ended up sick early on, greasy coat, teeth problems. The past few dogs I've had eat home cooked chicken with vegetables and have had 0 issues. Get on EBT until you get more on your feet, try out more based.cooking meals.

Whole-lee carp, y'all whad da FUaaaaaaarg is goin on in hea' Wen I firs' meet sum lains IRL we go to partee, an we HEAR in da lainchan we got lotsuh partays: da partay of the three seas, da partay of HOPE in Noo Jork Stake, we got da partay in LAS VEGAS ovah in NEVADA we got ALL soah'ts uh partays, partays commin out uv our EARS u no wut Im takin about? An a thousand other private parties. I even had a party of some lain folks just a few weeks ago, and am gonna have another one in a couple months if plans do not sour. Lain wen't out clubbing, she had IRL friends. We may be weird, but like lain we have our FRENDS IRL like alice and we have our FREINDS in the WIRED and (because afterall, everything IS CONNECTED) these friends they cross between sometimes. I don't mean no offense to those of you like Umbrellaman who seem to live through the wire entierly but I must declare that you are not living the full EXPERIENCE of the life, even the life of this CHAN: this hea' community. >>34656 >You cannot erase decades of relative deprivation and lack of exposure by just "blossoming" familamilamistan lets set som SOY KAFFE straight: this here thread is an ADVICE thred. An if u don't mind me noticing, u ain't OP. OP's a jung guy, he's a unibro, an' if he's gonna get out and talk to people, by your own implication he's better of DOING IT RIGHT THE FUAAAAAAAAAAAAARK NOW then at any point in the future, lest he remain 4ever married to the path of social deprivation and isolation. This thred ain't about u, so shut up if u ain't got nuffin to say 'cept yo self insertional blather. >>34659 >los retardZ make being in "uni" their identity again wit d relevanC: op, for better or worse, is a fuggggging unibro(w) (see >>34619 ). IDK if I'd tell him to go there do that but snickersnack there he's @! & if u don't mind migh saying I think he otta SEEZ what advantages he has from this situation, or get the fuAAAARk out and do something else asap. He ain't makin' it hiz IDenity thouh, he's a KOOL kid he didnat even mention it in the OP desptie its relative relevanC. ~_~ ~_~ If you shutin angLOWs want to talk about your own troubles, then go make thine own threads, but THIS here thred is OP's an he's still relatively free to chuz witch path he wunts to go down. lets gib him his just deserts and not make this thread in2 a war between you anglos and us normans. Maybe you forgot but we had that war back in the 1000's, and u guys lost if I recall corectly.

>>34658 >>34659 It's not about 'becoming normal' (just sole fact you speak in such words is indicative of your poor wit), it's about learning to apply whatever the hell is going withing one's head and taming the metaprocess of 'me', regardless of whether those are or will become 'normal' or not. How hard is it to see that cause predicates consequence? No cause, or exposure, means no consequence, or experience. Except no exposure is still exposure, so you'll learn to be depressed being exposed to years of unfulfillment. But yeah, god forbid you deal with norm1es and learn from that (or you'll become normal!!1). Holy soykaf, you're so blind it's baffling. What does it even mean to be 'normal'? Being unable to see into your motivation's roots, your master's, le ego's, needs and defences; unable to even concept of such processes taking place behind the MEEEEE you're so full of? By that definition, you are being 100% normal here. To the max.

>>34666 >actually there's no such thing as normal Im sick of this rhetoric. And accusing someone of being stupid just for having a fundamental disagreement is absurd.

>>34667 The notion that normal is a myth is being propagated for several reasons. One of which is the goal of absolute control, which will be achieved through the False Self vs. "discover" you True Self agenda. One this is open, man has been decoupled from nature completely. You can fill their minds with whatever you want, maim them however you like, and remake them as you please. Then they go off and "discover" their "true self" down one of the many pipelines provided to them which they "find".

>>34667 And you know what I'm sick of? Language and ego. I've never said there's no such thing, but it is a relative internal value, like a sense of distance or scale, and not by any mean an intrinsic property of someone/thing. Discussing scale, it is crystal clear a shape of an object of discussion might appear different based on the viewer's perspective, and it sure as hell should, but when it comes down to discussing people, everybody acts as if they were enlightened by the holy truth, and are now seeing right into the core of matter itself, more so, as if they were selfless gods from beyond bestowing judgement upon this accursed land. I don't have a problem with it, on the contrary, it's the best we can do yet, but only as long as the parties involved acknowledge this is happening, as long as the process is bilinear, happening both ways: in and out. But they don't acknowledge. Never do. Every time I point it out, there's never 'I' to their argumentation, only 'them'. 'Them' are a problem, always. There's no system of which the 'I' is a part of, it is always _the_ system itself. The fuarrrking god complex. The ego. Topped by the handicap of a human language. Who's a norm1e here, friend? No definitive answer. Not unless you assess and, ultimately, nullify the universe itself, which you gladly do. You are a narcissistic thief, a liar, and a fool. >>34668 A classic example of the above. Attempting to figure out a pattern, the specimen at hand introduces [Them] into its formula as a hypothetical value to the unknown of the system he is struggling to grasp – a mysterious force or entity of the unknown origin, a potential adversary to what is known and the [I] that is in itself the bastion of all good and right. There is no other property to [Them] except [Them] potentially being an unseen patron of all evil, therefore also of immense power. The supposed agenda of [Them] is, similarly, appears to be malicious in its nature, and aimed at the destruction of the good of [I]. Despite heavy emphasis on the viciousness of [Them] and the good of the [I], the nature of either is not to be questioned. The specimen at hand, thus having learned the categories of [Good] and [Evil], [I] and [Them] respectively, then proceeds to resolve the complexity of the world around it with its newfound boolean abrahamic instrument of measure while also, bizarrely enough, staying completely unaware of such process, baffled by any questions regarding the notion – to him, there's simply no such thing.

>>34672 >Attempting to figure out a pattern, the specimen at hand introduces [Them] into its formula Stopped reading here. There are two types of minds, the singular and the divided. They are biased linear convergent (deductive, interpolative) and non-linear divergent (extrapolative). Your reflexive assertion that what I'm doing MUST be a product of apophenia and pareidolia, and the notion of trying to "insert" things into a "formula" to hypothetically, feebly attempt to force an organizing principle onto a big scary complicated world (oh no!) is just projection. You maintain a singular anchor reality and have a singular, linear mind. You're fundamentally incapable of any other type of reasoning, I've come to suspect. Or it requires some shock to force you out. Yeah, skimming the rest there's nothing worth respondiong to. Introducing the defense mechanism known as splitting, black and white, good and evil, asserting I'm incapable of nuance. Yeah, you're a caricature.

>>34674 >There are two types of minds, the singular and the divided. Sound funny, they guy who talks nonlinearity is counting minds now? Elaborate. >Your reflexive assertion that what I'm doing MUST be a product of apophenia and pareidolia... Tell what is it you're doing here yourself then, I'm listening. >You maintain a singular anchor reality and have a singular, linear mind. You're fundamentally incapable of any other type of reasoning, I've come to suspect. Lmao, my previous post was, going beyond surface of what was said, all about chaos, linearity, reductiomism and systemic thinking. >(oh no!) Sorry got you spooked. inb4: you never answer

>>34675 Never answer what? I've condensed it down to the gist of whjat you need to know. There are specific constellations of deficits you'll find in each, and certain conditions which cause them to shift into a different macrostate, where eg aspects of the divided will unify, and aspects of the singular will fragment. But they tend to converge into their "default mode network", their ground state. People have an active and a passive state. An example of a defect in the singular mind is the suspecitibility to cognitive dissonance and the reliance on a sense of knowing, a sensation of certainty and identity. What it does is, when information comes in, witjhin a certain amount of time it must mark that information as either true or false. It does that by using it as a sort of bridge, it weighs it against the default anchor reality "what is true" ans then judges whatever stimuli is coming in with it within that context. If it cannot be marked as true, it is marked as false and discarded. It does this due to the relative "good enough" speed and ease of maintaining and placing faith in the default reality. Doing otherwise would make it no longer singular, even superficial, but not actual, contradition will cause this. So it deals with dissonance how you would expect. The divided mind has no such issues with dissonance. If it does maintaina default base reality, it's generally more fluid. At the extreme ends you have fragmentation with no attempt at reconciliation (structural dissociation). The structure varies. If a superstructure doesn't exist to sample from and collate state of all the pieces, weight them, etc, you get jumbled output.

>>34662 agree with you completely but please don't butcher muh lain lmao, her only friend was alice, the whole show ends with this point in mind

>>34676 And how is this not what I was talking about? >Singular and divided mind Abrahamic and schizo. I was accusing you and others of playing gods, dichotomizing the chaos of the supposed reality against the flat inner 'yes/no' template piece by piece at a time and projecting the results outwards, and now you are accusing me of this yourself, mistaking my words. Maybe you just don't comprehend what this is all about. Still no answer as to what, if not strawman patterning, in your opinion, has made you attribute my critique of projecting the inner templates, of a 'norm1e' in this case, to either me being manipulative and trying to overrule someone's self, or me being manipulated by the third party into decomposing my own and everyone else's self. Which was it you've implied is unclear.

>>34660 >leave the city because you're rich enough and it is like kicking dead whales down the beach there >next generation your kids move to the city because the only local industry is farming and new technology means there's a massive labor oversupply anyway tale as old as time.

>>34679 >Abrahamic and schizo. And yet you can't tell me something else, only say "this is what it is, and that's why it is not". What I've described, though, disappointing, is exactly how it works. That's the relationship between the conscious and subconscious, and the structure of each. You can invoke the senses and locus of control, but it doesn't get at the core. >dichotomizing the chaos of the supposed reality against the flat inner 'yes/no' template piece by piece at a time and projecting the results outwards So your argument resolves down to "you have no place, submit." Again, this is you thinking in binmary terms and projecting. Everything is chaos and unknowable vs nothing is chaos and everything is contrived. >and now you are accusing me of this yourself It''s not even an accusation, nust a description. It is what you're doing. I don't care enough to get into the accuse vs defend adversarial framework, which is also something the singular mind really loves and fixates on. Adversarial systems. > to either me being manipulative and trying to overrule someone's self Emotional and security needs. Fight the inside through symbolic manifestations in the outside. > or me being manipulated by the third party into decomposing my own and everyone else's self. This is just obvious and needs no explanation. You don't have free will. You were born, culturally and socially inculcated, pumped full of media and other social contagions, your parents layered onto and shaped your core self. The best way to control people is to give them the freedom to be anything they want, then make them do it. They'll think it's their discovery and choice.

Wow, I never expected the thread to turn into what it has… It’s given me a lot of points to consider, and while all of the disagreements have their flaws, a healthy discourse and exchange of conflicting opinions are what keep us from turning into yes-man robots. Just for anyone who’s wondering how I’m doing, I’m feeling better about my situation in life, I’m researching more fulfilling job opportunities while hoping to adjust my class schedule by the next year, I’ll still be on track for my major and whatnot, and I’ll have time to work a better job where I can get more sleep at night and work on bettering my physical health. Anyway Lainons, hope everyone is doing well :)

>>34689 >I wish more advice threads would have actually affected people like this. this thread would have been a lot better without your retarded arguing

>>34689 >coin the terms such as 'conscious' and 'unconscious', defining both and the intertwinement between the two then? Those potential constellations and "inner landscapes" are too variable and complex to define, which is part of the cause for the singular and divided subtypes. At the msot basic I separate it into 3 parts. The conscious mind, the unconscious mind, and the senses. There may be a 4th, which is nonlocal, and can be considered apart from a "sense". Either way. The conscious mind is a frame. It's like the room you're sitting in, the internal map you have regarding it (you know where things are and can go A to B) and everything you're aware of. So if you have an index in mind, you would be consciously aware of the index, but not consciously aware of its full contents unless you access it. The unconscious is doing all kinds of things. You have interfaces to make it do work you want. Some people have a "higher self" or a "superstructure" that tracks global state within the subconscious, some don't. The mind itself contains machinery/circuits to bridge the conscious, the subconscious, and the senses. For example one method of brainwashing would be thwarting or otherwise damaging the development of object relations. So the internal representation of an external object will have certain effects on them, or their brain won't be able to act as a bridge for the senses. So you can't bridge sight with memory. Or visual with tactile, in the case of figuring out how to physically interact with an object one sees. >conflating the strange attractor of the 'I' with the system it operates within The body and mind can be considered puppets for the I. However that doesn't imply inherent awareness, they do have a will of their own. >I am coping and am aware of it. That doesn't make it better. The basis for this trap is usually established in early childhood. You learn to be image conscious, and in particular, you can feel when you're being watched and will be perfectionistic in these instances. To resolve this you either become the image (superego dominant) or you submit to castration anxiety (I admit it, I am flawed, look at me, I know I'm doing it wrong). Just stop thinking about the sensation of their eyes on you and their thoughts and judgements about you. Heh, "just". "just do this instead". >This is so, but I fail to see how it applies to the original argument. I'm not even sure what you're arguing at all. My tunnel vision? Me being biased? It's been made clear. You create a "do as thou wilt" culture of freedom, then you do things to people to get them to choose from whatever pre-established pipelines and identities you have provided. Those who refuse to choose, will also have traps set out in the woods. Refine and use them accordingly. It's just alchemy. Manuifacturing and agricultural model. Not complex.

I'll link you some things that helped me.

>>34542 i know its ironic considering you have the officer k pfp, but if you want a gf, just use character.ai or something all the experience, just without the person.

>>34542 Life is gonna be a Wild Snake, and you, your gonna ride it, or die in it.

What you need is big dick energy, anon.

>>39005 is this a man???????????

What you need is big dick energy, anon.>>39007 obviously

>>39008 insane how pretty he is

>>39007 no its a f a g >>39014 O K F A G

>>39014 This is actually a very interesting aspect of sexual development: What is "Attractive"? We know that actual attraction is genetic, and not necessarily visual, with the predominant mode of identifying an ideal mate being smell, specifically the collision of two immune systems vying for comparability. Keep race mixing out of this because it has benefits and detriments both, what's more important per this specific facilitation is that each individual has the agency to choose another individual out of their free will, and this is the last time I'll mention race. "Attractive" is not a uniformly applicable concept, yet it's sold as such. My postulation is that "Attractive" as a cultural norm is learned behavior, in quotations because it is clearly a unique concept nearly independent from sexual attraction at large: Women identify eachother as "Attractive" without being attracted to eachother, and men do the same to a lesser extent. "Attractive" as a cultural point seems to be an extrapolation of an overarching analysis of "who fits in" with the culture at large, because obviously makeup, as depicted on the glitterboy, had no bearing on what was "Attractive" throughout history - Makeup doesn't even retain a standard implementation between ethnically identical peoples. Victorian era makeup is a fantastic example of how makeup, as defined by culture, is actually counter intuitive to actual attraction, and a symbol of desired conformity moreso then as an objective beauty(even within personally held beauty standards, like big/small people liking other big/small people). This is predominantly contingent on women being sexual gatekeepers, reminiscent of the Before/After threads as can be found, where women after discovering sex want to fly a flag of sexual availability, immediately seeking to conform to the standards set by culture as to how they should become "Attractive." This has obviously been exploited by the larger fashion industry as an insidiously effective method of advertisement, but I think what speaks volumes to the validity of my claims is that this isn't the first time the sociosexual dynamic has exacerbated and shifted itself into a stupid, degenerate hole. This conformative vice has ultimately limited actual attraction, a much more subliminal feeling, for desperate attempts at seeming more overtly sexually desirable, moreso even that desirability has become associated with wealth, "Ugly people aren't rich." That's why this dude looks "Pretty," because if you put that same exact makeup on a donkey, someone would probably fuarrrk it, too. The femboy trend is very likely deeply rooted in this, as lonely males desperately seek affection in whatever format as may come - Some popular femboys aren't even homosexual. >>39007 >>39008 >>39014 >>39016 Increase minimum characters, please. This soykaf is pathetic. Imagine being such a small brained little bitch as posting this trash like you're on X trying to garner a sympathetic followercount. Gets aids, niggers. >"cool blog post" Go rig your exit bag white boy.

>>39017 >We know that actual attraction is genetic, and not necessarily visual Why make such a bold and obviously untrue claim from the start? For me, physical attraction is like 99.9999999% visual. I enjoy the smell of girls, but I have yet to encounter a girl whose natural scent I did not like, aside from old ladies and fat ones. But women I would otherwise find not particularly appealing visually may have nice smells. I still would rather not be with them.

>>39018 >For me, physical attraction is like 99.9999999% visual So your eyes and visual processing aren't genetic? I'm not being semantic. Do you legitimately believe that attraction is the exact same for everyone in the world 100% of the time? This is obviously untrue. What determines the differences? Culture and genetics. In my post, I postulated that the cultural based attraction is stronger. To specify, when googled, "Genetic attraction" has been defined as "attraction to similarities" which I want to completely throw the fuarrrk out as stupid. Sexual selection only evolved and exists to outpace diseases strategically, because they evolve much, much faster. The predominant selective practice for the last 250+ million years has been the selection of immune systems to provide the most robust defense against diseases, not for any observable or material reasons. The success of civilization and society has absolutely altered our sexual desires, but culture has only existed for 10,000 years, and even were it 50k, it's derivative by comparison to the nature of sexual selection as it exists in ALL animals. That is to say, specifically, Culturally driven "Attraction" is more or less brand new, and I postulate it as a manipulable spook that's been taken advantage of and skewed by interested parties. "Nice smells" is not relevant, of course you like how women smell, but the attraction I'm talking about is exactly as stated, "a much more subliminal feeling" which means you wouldn't notice that you like the smell. You would be attracted(lowercase, not cultural) to their immune system. My points aren't to vie for changes like some petulant incel. They're an analysis of human behavior at large and throughout all of societal history. Saying "For me" in this context is extremely narrow minded. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_Wedekind >It has been suggested that MHC plays a role in the selection of potential mates, via olfaction. MHC genes make molecules that enable the immune system to recognise invaders; generally, the more diverse the MHC genes of the parents, the stronger the immune system of the offspring. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_histocompatibility_complex tl;dr Females are most attracted to males scent who's offspring would "fill in the gaps" of their immune system, creating a superior immune system. The implications are also racist, which is why I avoided posting this at first, because it's a petty racist talking point, as women will always choose a smell from their own race, regardless of potentially superior histocompatability. Please don't make this conversation about race, we're talking about all societally capable humans, including extinct species.

>>39019 can you post some (or just one) pubmed article showing a link b/t parent ethnic diversity and better immune function? I poked around for 30s but couldn't find any for you. also, i'm deeply suspicious of your claim: >The predominant selective practice for the last >250+ million years has been the selection of >immune systems to provide the most robust >defense against diseases given the relatively small/disparate scale of human life, i assumed disease was not a major selective factor (as in, you probably would make it to reproductive age ~18 without dying of smallpox) easy to check this too, we can just find data on primary causes of mortality in pre-agricultural groups foreigners are stinky, my tribe smells the best always

>>39025 forgot to mention: assuming small tribe social structure with limited spatial mobility- wouldn't it be fair to assume that members of these tribes would encounter more or less the same diseases generation after generation? ie: if you live in bumfuckistan, you will typically get: 1) hookworms 2) coof #7 3) diarrhea #2 so it is best to have max immunity to those three things, and not for the coof #11 that only exists in tittylandica across the sea? (in which case, in-tribe breeding for maximal targeted immunity would be optimal?)

>>39025 >>39026 >Ethnic diveristy Horrible. Please avoid. As stated >"it has benefits and detriments both" My stance on the matter, which I don't want in this conversation, is that most disparate mixing results in an abundance of negative traits, with ~1/4 chance of 'hybrid vigor.' This is a stupid conversation that will catch people's egos instead of their intellects, which is why I intentionally use extremely broad terms such as "humans." Yes, that includes niggers, Lain. >given the relatively small/disparate scale of human life We're not talking about just human life when discussing histocompatability, but literally every single sexual animal that has ever existed. 'Sexual reproduction exists to outpace disease' this is widely accepted in studies of evolution, and if you ask a Pathologist, we're not even superior to those single celled organisms; The Black Death killed 2/3rds of Europe, for example. Please understand that the nature of understanding sexual evolution is purely analytical: I can't link those sources because empirical evidence literally doesn't exist. That doesn't mean that Evolutionary Biology is a redundant field, it means it's open to interpretation. Do you have a superior interpretation? I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter. This is a field entirely open to discussion, as much of cultural analysis is. How do you measure a culture, for example? Memes are a great way to start, but it also means we don't have any empirical data outside of what's written, and are those texts even valid sources? What I really want to discuss, as per the OP, is Attraction, it's basis within culture, and it's exploitability. For you, as your interest appears to be racially aggravated, this applies heavily to why commercials are consistently and inanely, fervently even, in favor of displaying interracial couples. If Attraction is cultural, such is my overarching assertion, this would elicit an attack on specific demographics akin to replacement genocide. Are you with me now? Please post any of your thoughts on the matter, I encourage both opposition and/or assessment in agreement, but the fact is that neither side can offer empirical data for any of your focus, because academia per the study racial differences is barred by the Geneva convention.

>>39019 >You would be attracted(lowercase, not cultural) to their immune system. reducing disease resistance to 'immune system' seems a little silly. Someone who keeps themselves cleaner and can obtain good food and has a little pattern recognition ability might wind up a lot healthier than someone with an equal immune system but lacking in these other qualities. You're attracted, perhaps moreso, to their health, and to their compatibility (as judged by various sensible proxies, and proxies for proxies to judge things like a good immune system). Compatibility is important, don't go fuarrrking goats or youll probably have no offspring or at best offspring with weird chromosomal problems. There are more subtle compatibility issues, as well, I recall something with like, andean and himmilaian peoples having different but basically incompatible adaptations to high altitude low oxygen environments. I am not sure if they've been bred together but their modifications aren't something that would stack to make an even higher altitude race. I sometimes wonder if part of human intelligence and skillfullness hasn't been developed because other humans are intelligent and skillful. If you are competing with say mammoths and maybe some tigres who also eat mammoths, perhaps you will just develop a single but effective strategy that works pretty good and stick to it. Humans, like disease, can develop new strategies and tricks quickly (and therefore other humans must develop new tricks and counter strategies quicker).

>>39035 >reducing disease resistance to 'immune system' seems a little silly. But that's actually empirical >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_Wedekind >The results showed that women were most attracted to men with an MHC most dissimilar from their own.[4] >Elder, Rob. (2001). "The Science of Attraction Archived 2007-06-23 at the Wayback Machine," Journal of Hybrid Vigor, Emory University, Issue 1. But only given the sample. So we can't say it's true for all humans, only that the selection style absolutely exists. Women find hands attractive much more then men, an example of a genetic driver thereof. A cultural addendum to that could therein be dirty hands; In a farming culture, that would signify a hard worker. In Rome, it would signify poverty. The distinction between the two drivers of attraction is very interesting, as we can expect genetic drivers to be absolutely logical, and cultural drivers to be absolutely situational, complex psychological decisions grounded in intangible memetic entourage.

>>39036 >most attracted to You're overemphasizing the demonstrated importance of this. The conclusion is that 'on the basis of the smell of the sweat, women who are not taking oral contraceptives seem attracted to men who are of a MHC different type'. There are only three types in this study, so you can't really say 'most' different, and only fourty nine women. We have no information here to determine how significantly it rates compared to other factors.

>>39037 I've spent the last 4 posts saying cultural factors are stronger.

>>39038 sorry m8 I was just replying to the specific posts and specific points I was replying to. Thanks for the article, I learned something interesting today! I would point out that my criticisms of this study (which are not of the study but rather how you were applying it) go equally for attraction among other non human animals. >>39026 seemingly hence why euros have trouble with malaria which nigs have some resistances to (and also sickle cell lol), while a lot of other people got shafted with smallpox and our other euro diseases. >>39033 >empirical evidence literally doesn't exist. uhm there is a lot of miscegenation, there's certainly information to be gathered based on the outcomes of different populations over time. The experiment is ongoing, the data is there for our collective observation and collection. That or Im a little confused what you're getting at lol. your efforts to dodge around racism I worry confuse some of your points. >is culturally driven attraction stronger than classic-natural selection? I think there may be other, bigger things going on today, like how a significant amount of courtship is done partially online. In some societies for a long time recently it seems like parental preference played a much larger role in mate selection, this may also be severely in decline. There's an argument to be made that, within the constraints of society, mating is becoming less culturally regulated and more how humans 'naturally' are wont to be.

>>34544 I was going to answer your questions individually but I think this is the more concise way to do it. As a guy coming to the end of his 20s, the answer to all of your questions boils down to meeting more people and playing everything by ear. (if you don't recognize that saying, it just means watch for opportunities and take them) You say you don't have close friends or family to rely on, so your first goal should be finding your people, whether that's your literal kin or just like-minded people. Try meeting some IRL and some online. Most of the joys of life you're missing can be found by meeting the right people and cultivating meaningful relationships with them. Doing this and being curious about what other people are up to opens weird opportunities up. I went to buy a car today and found out the seller works for a local software company I'd never even heard of, for example. This works for business, friendships, or romantic prospects. It's all connected, lainon. This last part is just a hunch, but based on how you describe your situation I think you've probably been denied so many opportunities you thought you'd have that you gave up on wanting anything in particular, right? It makes sense to do that, but you have to have goals and desires to know when you're moving in the right direction. Even if you don't have very specific ambitions for how you want your job/love life/lifestyle to look, spend some time thinking about the general shape you want your life to take so you can have milestones to celebrate and a way to gauge whether you're taking the right steps or you need to change your plans.