What ought the laws on suicide be?

In some places, it's actually illegal to kill yourself. If you survive, you will be charged with a crime. I don't know how the fuarrrk that happened (jk obviously it was puritan christ users in government) but I think we can all agree that's going too far. I'm at the point now where I unironically think there should be suicide booths like in Futurama. Hear me out. 1) people who want to kill themselves will do it anyway, except without cheap painless euthanasia, they will try more violent means. Sometimes they jump in front of trains, but what I'm really thinking of in this case is all the (non-gamg-related) mass shooters who's true plan is to commit suicide by cop. Very rarely are mass murderers from a happy comfortable life. It's usually guys who already tried to kill themselves through other methods. So partially due to societal influence they conclude the best way to go is out in a blaze of glory. We know this works too. America and Canada are very similar in a lot of ways, right down to the incel crisis. Yet Canada has far fewer mass killing incidents and they do have legal government euthanasia programs. 2) the government clearly isn't good at taking care of disenfranchised people through welfare. Our tax dollars would be better put to use financing these suicide booths. Clearly the substituents don't want their tax dollars going to weak, fragile, useless, depressed people. For the average voter it feels like rewarding the losers of society. I don't personally agree with that aspect but we live in a republic and that seems to be how most people think. I don't believe it will be possible to convince people otherwise unless we all get a UBI, but I also doubt that will happen. 3) I do think there should be some small token cost (like a quarter) so you can't really claim people are being coerced into killing themselves. They have to want it. It's a small hoop to jump through. Also it does cost money to clean up the body and generate the poison, etc. That'd mostly be paid by the tax dollars 4) going through a psychiatrist almost always results in the psychiatrist trying to turn the vulnerable person into a regular customer. Why wouldn't they? The financial incentive is too strong. 5) I could be convinced into forcing them to wait a year. All I know is that I hate waiting on government approval for literally every other bullshit hoop I'm forced to jump through to participate in society, and I actually don't hate my life. I couldn't imagine waiting for government bureaucracy to approve my suicide license. It always seems to me like one of the main things suicidal people are after is some semblance of control. They want to live or die on their own terms. 6) suicide booths wouldn't force their loved ones to come home to headless corpse or worse. They would just receive a notification in the mail. Seems a lot less painful that way. There's a debate about suicide brewing on /drug/ right now btw

Is the push for suicide and antinatalism in spaces like lainchan a psyop or are you guys really just that far gone? It gets better, please reach out to people. Suicide should not be legal because people will push troubled souls toward suicide instead of actually putting in the effort to help. >the government clearly isn't good at taking care of disenfranchised people through welfare. Our tax dollars would be better put to use financing these suicide booths. Clearly the substituents don't want their tax dollars going to weak, fragile, useless, depressed people. For the average voter it feels like rewarding the losers of society. So if the government is bad at helping people we should just get rid of people who need help? Thanks for going to the bottom of the slippery slope before I started sounding paranoid. Most people who need help deserve it, probably all of them do, and many will get better. I don't trust a system that comes from wanting to purge undesirables even when you say "Hmm letting the poor die is kind of empathic if you think about it."

>>34256 I'm OP. I'm not a psy-op, I'm not suicidal, and I'm not an antinatalist. I just understand it's not ethical to force people who did not consent to life to continue living just so you don't feel icky ESPECIALLY when you force them to toil away at some drudgery to "earn the right to eat". Your body, your choice. Are you anti-abortion too?

suicide should be mandatory. The rate of murders would go way down.

>>34260 >I'm not a psy-op have you checked? The Bavarian Illuminati are very crafty, they have created many psyops that didn't know they were psyops. Have you dug around for wires under your skin?

>>34267 Well, I do watch quite a bit of YouTube. Maybe I got subliminally brainwashed by Google to start propagating voluntary human extinction propaganda?

>... He told me 25 years ago that he would feel real trapped if he didn't know that he could commit suicide at any moment. I don't know if that is brave or stupid or what, but it was inevitable. I think that the truth of what rings through all his writing is that he meant what he said. If that is entertainment to you, well, that's OK. If you think that it enlightened you, well, that's even better. If you wonder if he's gone to Heaven or Hell, rest assured he will check out them both, find out which one Richard Milhous Nixon went to — and go there. He could never stand being bored. But there must be Football too — and Peacocks ... I'm going exactly this route. I make it a point to mentally blindfold myself to almost everything that happens more than 1 year in advance- to me, every year I have only 365 days to live, and I count down. Anything beyond that is a bonus. This is because I am one of those people whose motivations differ from the standard fame/status/power/sex/money stack. If my friends in shared ambition jumped off a bridge at this very moment I would and so would they vice versa. I've already mourned myself internally.

>>34271 Thank you for posting that quote. That's actually the quote I meant to post. I would be terrified if I ever felt I was trapped in this life. Like I said, I'm really not suicidal, but I'm constantly shocked how other non-suicidal people can't empathize with that trapped feeling. It's like when people try to threaten/pressure childfree women into having kids with stories about unhappy childfree people. "If you don't live your life according to my demands, you'll regret it! Mark my words!" It's fuarrrking heinous. Just let people live (or not live) how they want.

what r some gud ways to off yourself? heard a story about a guy trying to off himself but fuarrrked up the angle and somehow ended up taking the lower half of his face off and survived it, was found and now forced to live with this new welcoming experience

OP makes sense. If government cannot provide adequate living conditions then it at least should allow people to quit. >>34268 Human extinction is too extreme. But we should only have as many people as there are resources to create a affluent existence for them all. I do not support making more people just for them to end up homeless or lead otherwise miserable existence. Death is better than misery. Then, despite all this homelessness, some creasy people want to increase population. I say kill the elderly and vacate homes for younger homeless people. I am ptrying to make world a better place here with my brilliant ideas.

The problem with suicide booths is that a high number of suicide attempts are made in temporary moments of crisis or panic. These are people who will be fine and live happy, regular lives if they just don't kill themselves during their low. Making suicide too accessible means these people will needlessly die. Many other reasons for suicide are financial or legal ("I can't afford rent, I'm going to kill myself" or "I'm going to prison where I'll be abused for years because I had drugs, so I'm going to kill myself"), which is a problem with "the system." The solution to a system that makes people want to kill themselves is to improve the system to no longer push people to suicide, not to just make it easier for the disenfranchised to die. Suicide should be legal because there are people who have good reason to kill themselves and people should have full bodily autonomy, but it isn't the government or a corporation's place to make it more accessible. >>34276 >heard a story about a guy trying to off himself but fuarrrked up the angle and somehow ended up taking the lower half of his face off and survived it, was found and now forced to live with this new welcoming experience Many such cases. A famous one is James Vance. He and a friend had a suicide pact, but only his friend was successful. He survived the attempt, permafucking his face and destroying part of his brain. and his parents, who had kicked him out of their house several times as a minor and regularly employed the loving parental techniques of "screaming at him all the time" and "beating him with fists" (which they admitted to in interviews) blamed his suicide attempt on him listening to too much heavy metal devil music. They sued Judas Priest and lost the court case. There are some documentaries on youtube if you want to learn more about him.

Anyone who seriously wants to kill himself can do it. Its not that hard, if you're not litterally a retard. I dislike government efforts to stop it when it goes to like, we will strap you in a hospital bed and force feed you cornsyrup down a tube, but there's a difference between letting anyone do what they will and making efforts to facilitate behaviors that are obviously destructive and undesierable, of which suicide is one. >canada has fewer mass killings they also have fewer niggers and spics. And just fewer people. I assume their psych drug useage is similar though, but always remember in stats about mass shootings in USA, the great majority are black on black. This is where most of the US's uniqueness in crime comes from. >tax dollars would be put to better use thus ehh, they'd also be better put to use just not being taken in the first place. Why not do that instead. Im not sure that hobos are going to be offing themselves more than they already are in this scheme, more likely they'll camp out in the booths and use them as toilets. >token cost is good lol can't disagree, but there already is easy suicide if you try with a token cost. >going through a psychiatrist almost always results in [badshit] yes definitly running something like this through the medical system is evil. should be taking away doctorial powers not granting additional ones. >I could be convinced into forcing them to wait a year. funny but just absurd. >suicide booths wouldn't force their loved ones to come home to headless corpse or worse. people should be made to confront death and given momento moris more often. Sanitizing, hiding and medicalizing death is not a good thing. >They would just receive a notification in the mail. Seems a lot less painful that way. got to show your vax pass and ID card to use the muderbox lol. My stance on a lot of things like this is that they should be illegal, taboo, not in any way supported by the government, and just generally frowned upon. But personal freedom should always be respected to the point where anyone can kill himself if he wants to, if only by refusing to eat or refusing medical care when the alternative is clearly death.

>>34297 I'm not suggesting we replace trying to make the world a better with suicide booths. I think adding suicide booths is a step in the right direction. It's like that HST quote said. No one should ever feel trapped in this life. We can keep trying to improve society so fewer people want to kill themselves too, but for those who do want to kill themselves, they no longer have to resort to difficult, unethical, or expensive means to do so.

>>34277 >If government cannot provide adequate living conditions then it at least should allow people to quit. So government is already incentivizing people to "quit" as a means to manufacture consent so they can off the mentally ill.

>>34302 But if mentally ill people want to die, who are you to stop them? How fuarrrked does someone need to be before your highness will grant them the privilege of dying?

>>34303 How sad does someone actually have to be before you hand them a shotgun and tell them to do it, and how do I know I can trust your response? I don't know of a country I'd trust with that power, or a person.

>>34314 not him, but sane default is that everyone should have a shotgun and the power to do with it as they will. Government should mind its own business. t. AMERICAN

>>34312 Lain. That's his point. If someone is so determined that even Nature's law cannot stop them, then "Don't kill yourself!" written in a lawbook is nothing more than a formality. A formality we should keep in place, simply because having such obstacles weeds out those who still want to be saved. These laws aren't there to stop you from killing yourself, they're there to ask you "No going back. Are you sure about this?"

>>34314 Literally any degree of sad because THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. Also the purpose of cheaply available suicide booths is so you wouldn't have to hand people shotguns.

>>34317 >Don't commit suicide cause it makes me feel icky cause it's your body telling you it's a bad thing! You religious people and your naturalistic fallacies. My body also tells me to pin down and rape attractive women (something we literally evolved to do) but I suppress that urge because I know it's ethically wrong to force someone to do ANYTHING without their consent. This includes stuff that usually feels good, such as sex with me or... I dunno... Living.

>>34317 >Lain. That's his point. hence why I started my post with the word 'yes', not immediately followed by any qualification at all. >>34320 >it's ethically wrong to force someone to do ANYTHING without their consent WTF. This whole post doesn't make sense in context of whom you're replying to. Making suicide illegal doesn't force anyone to stay alive, its just a tepid statement by government&society that suicide isn't good and shouldn't be encouraged. No one is forced to follow the law, least of all in this case. Also those are some strange ethics but whatever beside the point here.

>>34333 Yeah sure bud, I guess technically no one is forced to follow ANY law... provided you don't mind being thrown in prison if you get caught: https://khn.org/news/article/montana-tribes-want-to-stop-jailing-people-for-suicide-attempts-but-lack-a-safer-alternative/ I can't believe there's even a fuarrrking debate about this. Throwing people in jail for attempting suicide is peak retarded puritanism, full stop.

>>34320 Suicidal urges don't replace the fear of death, they co-exist. That's why people delay their suicides for years. Fear of death is so fixed in the human mind it's comparable to hunger. >>34334 Technically it's not a law for committing suicide, but a law for failing to commit suicide.

I think it seems almost obvious that suicide booths would force a semblance of human decency onto all members of society, after many, many deaths. Unfortunately they would never be implemented because that would cause the machine of capitalism, exploitation, and people being bullshit to one another to completely halt. Anyone who has been deeply suicidal knows that being dead would in fact lead to less suffering overall but that the short term pain of committing and the difficulties involved in acquisition of the means outweighs the present suffering. Society is a finely tuned system for making you feel as suicidal as possible without making you or letting you commit suicide.

>>34334 Making something illegal doesn't mean you get jailed for doing it, and making something legal doesn't mean you dont. Many places if you get noticed as a suicide attempt its possible (even obligatory) to be involuntarily confined in i.e. a mental hospital. But sure, I'm against jailing people for 'suicide attempts'.

>>34337 False. Well, at least for most suicidal people, they aren't afraid of dying so much as botching the suicide and facing the repercussions afterward. Such as being permanently crippled, involuntarily committed to a mental institution, or being thrown in jail. Quit projecting your own fear of death onto others. I mean, these people are defined by their desire for death. Not everyone has the same exact biological urges as you. Some people are more than happy to end their genetic lineage by exclusively having homosexual sex. Should we criminalize that too? >Technically it's not a law for committing suicide, but a law for failing to commit suicide. Lmao I didn't expect this thread to make me laugh so much

>>34343 >they aren't afraid of dying so much as botching the suicide and facing the repercussions afterward "A more recent study on 287 vertical fall victims revealed that falls from height of 8 stories (i.e. around 90-100 feet) and higher, are associated with a 100% mortality " Well, that settles that. And who doesn't live within a day's journey of a 10 story building? We all could commit suicide with 100% certainty, for no cost, before the day is over if that was really what we desired.

>>34343 all of these posts purporting to understand the minds of the 'suicidal' strike me as very strange. There's probably a class of people who do think about suiciding and don't because of these fears, but they have to be a narrow group that is both too dumb/unmotivated to kill by reliable means and not sufficiently impulsive to try by uncertain ones. Lots of suicides (especially documented failures) seem like impulse choices, not too concerned about possible fallout. Most people I know who've contemplated about suicide didn't want to do it because of i.e. what it would do to their family, their friends, etc. Not too worried about botching it, but I think they'd be smart enough to do it right if they actually wanted to. >Should we criminalize that too? yes, lol.

>>34345 >Now that your point has been effortlessly refuted Im not even him but bruh, this list is 8 people who survived mostly by being connected to parts of airplanes or falling into soft snowbanks, not i.e. diving headfirst onto the sidewalk, but very unusual circumstances. None of these people are *trying* to kill themselves, some made quite considerable efforts to keep themselves alive. And even still they are the <.1% of extraordinarily lucky people who manage to survive through bizzare twists of fortune.

>>34343 >most suicidal people I hate to be that guy, but source?

>>34347 Yeah, 0.1% AKA 1 in 1000. There are estimated to be about 800,000 suicides a year. It's definitely possible to survive a jump far higher than 8 stories. And it actually is rather difficult to get on the roofs of most buildings. There is this new invention called "locks" because building owners dont want random people climbing and jumping off there buildings due to the potential for lawsuits. Most people don't really have access to anything higher than a 6 story building anyway. Pic related. Now take your L and kindly fuarrrk off.

>>34349 >There is this new invention called "locks" because building owners dont want random people climbing and jumping off there buildings due to the potential for lawsuits if all it takes to stop you from killing yourself is a fuarrrking locked door then let me tell ya, you don't really want to kill yourself.

>>34351 Lockpick set or bolt cutters: $70.00 Cheap shotgun: $300.00 Suicide booth: $0.25 I just don't get why you want to impose such a huge barrier of entry to suicide

>>34352 >trip to the grand canyon: 200 dolla >car: 5000 dolla >trip to the train tracks: priceless Its a net positive for society if most 'suicide attempts' result in failure. Plain and simple. End of the day I am confident anyone who wants to die and isnt a litteral retard can do it pretty easy, therefore most failed suicides aren't serious. And look at them, the huge majority of failed suicide accounts I've found are just sloppy. I've said this before in these threads. also suicide booths are fantasy. How would you implement one with high effectiveness for 25 cents ? even public toilets cost more than that. Its gonna cost so much if you pay to clean up the body and soykaf that it will be cheaper to buy a shotgun.

>>34349 Russians jump off buildings all the time for suicide. It's really not so difficult to get up there -- one unlocked roof door is all it takes. But hell, you can also burn yourself alive. In a closed-off room, if the fire doesn't kill you, the smoke inhalation definitely will. Or just tie a weight to your leg and jump in some water. If you sink to the bottom, there is 0% chance of survival. Fear of survival is not the main concern of suicide -- it's fear of death. >>34352 The cost to run a suicide booth far exceeds $0.25 per person, you'd be making the state (i.e. the people via taxes) pay for a service which is really fundamentally unneeded, because suicide should not be made readily accessible or easy for obvious reasons.

>>34320 Those are some big assumptions. I won't bother addressing them, because you're arguing in bad faith. My body doesn't tell me to pin down and rape people, by the way. >>34333 Ah yeah sorry I misunderstood, then.

>>34353 >IF YOURE NOT WILLING TO BURN YOURSELF ALIVE YOU DONT DESERVE THE FREEDOM TO DIE!! YOU MUST SUFFER FOR YOUR SINS BEFORE YOU GO TO HELL! Jesus christ, again with the puritanism. Suffering is not virtuous. The fact is that unless you're for a full UBI (or free room, board, internet, clothes, and healthcare for everyone) you cannot ethically hold the position of forcing people to be alive, just to force them to work. If you actually do believe everyone should receive a UBI, I will agree actually with you. But in my experience 100% of the people who are weirdly opposed to euthanasia are also weirdly opposed to UBI. A UBI is only feasible if enough people get on board, but I think most people would rather let civilization collapse than vote for a UBI.

>>34354 >Or just tie a weight to your leg and jump in some water. If you sink to the bottom, there is 0% chance of survival. you would not beleive how inept people are. If this was the most common suicide method you'd have heaps of people who have no idea how to tie a knot/do it with awful thread and end up surviving. This is because they do not care, they do not actually want to die. I guess maybe we agree lol.

>>34357 >you cannot ethically hold the position of forcing people to be alive Well, who's forcing them to live? A law is just a law; what are they gonna do, arrest your corpse? We shouldn't legalize suicide, as already discussed, but even if we do, making it easier is another problem too. What would you do if we finished building the suicide booths, and 13 year old girls were committing suicide in droves for only $0.25 because some boy at school rejected them? That wouldn't be a terrible waste of life? Read the biography of any great person; they probably contemplated suicide at some point (when they were very young, no less!). As I said, we all have a right to commit suicide -- a natural right, which stands above any governmental law. That does not mean we should enable it. BTW, since you mention euthanasia-- That has a sizeable rate of complications too: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10684914/ Wish I had a better link, but when something goes wrong in assisted suicide/euthanasia it's extremely painful, and it does happen. >If you actually do believe everyone should receive a UBI, I will agree actually with you. Sure, I am a NEET myself. All traditional societies had some institution for maladjusted people (like a monastery), which took in anyone and allowed them to be happy and productive. The modern world is anomalous for not having this. Ideally, we'd have some communal monastery-like institution, and a Brave New World-style nature preserve too that allows for more traditional living arrangements like hunting-gathering or sustenance farming. Precisely why I am against suicide, is that healthy people who would be happy in a normal society, are driven to despair because they don't fit into the 40 hour work week lifestyle. These are often the best and brightest people of society, on the far end of the bell curve, but because they are genetically prone to illness, they're also more suicide prone. Eventually, medicine will be able to cure their illness. In the mean time, let's create a pressure-release system for those non-conformists, so they don't have to kill themselves. It worked great in the past.

>>34360 Learn to read, then scroll up in this thread to see just one example (of many) where people who botched their suicide attempts resulted in them being thrown in jail. When I learned this was actually how it worked, I found it unbelievable too. But staying in denial after you have access to this information is silly. >Sure, I am a NEET myself. Extremely based. I apologize for disagreeing so rudely. This is seriously the first time I've ever encountered someone who is anti-suicide but pro-UBI. To reiterate, my position is that ideally no one would want to commit suicide in the first place. But I still don't think we should criminalize the behavior and I don't think we ought to demand suicidally depressed people pass some litmus test of suffering (JUST BURN YOURSELF ALIVE BRO) before letting them do what they want with their lives.

>>34353 >The cost to run a suicide booth far exceeds $0.25 per person, you'd be making the state (i.e. the people via taxes) pay Suicide booths would actually be highly profitable even run at no cost to users, since a pristine human corpse is worth thousands of dollars on the open market, even one that isn't fresh enough for organ transplants (many funeral homes practice embezzlement of body parts). All that would be needed is for laws to be passed removing the red tape, and booths would pop up on every streetcorner courtesy of private industry, and rather than a burden they could even be a source of tax revenue. >suicide should not be made readily accessible or easy for obvious reasons. This is true, but I think it's important to keep in mind that economic forces aren't on your side here and the free market has a built-in ghoulish hunger that is only going to grow as time goes on and the relative value of our labor continues to diminish. Economists have all sorts of excuses for why this isn't the case for humans, but I think it's completely relevant that automation resulted in most of the world's horses being processed into meat and glue when they were suddenly worth less alive than their maintenance costs.

>>34361 >Learn to read, then scroll up in this thread to see just one example (of many) where people who botched their suicide attempts resulted in them being thrown in jail. Well, as mentioned, it's only a punishment for *failing* suicide. Don't try to rope unless you can actually pull it off. It's a dumb law, never intended to suggest otherwise. Like many, it's a relic of Christian ethics -- pagan societies often had no issue with suicide. You can say, "The law needs to exist so suicidal people don't jump off buildings/splatter their brains on walls/jump in front of trains and bother others". But really, suicidal people will do that soykaf anyway. Your dumb law is not stopping anyone from doing it. However, the law shouldn't be relevant to anyone who wishes to die. Because botching a suicide has way worse problems than jail time. You could end up paralyzed, wishing for death yet being forced to live. No, if you attempt suicide you have to take it seriously. >I don't think we ought to demand suicidally depressed people pass some litmus test of suffering (JUST BURN YOURSELF ALIVE BRO) before letting them do what they want with their lives That's why I brought up building jumping first: It's free, it's quick, it's (mostly) painless, and it's guaranteed death (We are talking about pure asphalt/concrete here). Getting onto the roof is the only hard part. But hell, with a little cash you can travel out to the perfect jumping spot. Maybe not Golden Gate anymore, but there's others. >>34364 Well, we were having a discussion about ethics. What should happen vs. what will are often different things.

>>34366 You're missing the point. You're still demanding suicidally depressed people pass some arbitrary test in order for you to give them the privilege of ending their lives on their own terms. Not only are you demanding they spend $70, not only are you demanding they break into someone else's property, not only are you demanding they work up the courage to jump off a building, not only are you demanding they risk hurting someone else, there's also the risk of it not actually killing them in the first place. Don't you have any empathy for suffering people? Are you one of those people who won't kill a maimed mouse caught in a mousetrap? You can't just let them suffer and you're not gonna fix them. It'd be nice if you could, but life ain't all sunshine and rainbows. Perhaps I'm so defensive of suicidally depressed people because I've been friends with quite a few and had long talks trying to talk them out of it. They are who convinced me it's selfish of me to demand they stick around just because I don't want to lose their friendship. It's like if you had a gf who had the opportunity to move to a new country. Would you demand she stay with you just because you dont want to be alone? It's not your call to make. You could ethically try to talk her out of it, but it's become unethical when you start coercing her into staying by forcing her to pass your arbitrary litmus tests.

>>34367 >You're still demanding suicidally depressed people pass some arbitrary test in order for you to give them the privilege of ending their lives on their own terms. The word "Arbitrary" suggests I want it to be difficult to kill oneself for no good reason. But that's not true, I have a great reason: 99% of people who want to commit suicide, really shouldn't do it. Suicide isn't the answer for the overwhelming majority of people. I'm writing to you, not from an arbitrary position of moral superiority, but as a guy who's struggled with severe mental problems since age 15; who hasn't had a friend since puberty; who is mostly incapable of feeling emotions or pleasure/pain due to mysterious gut problems. I really know what it's like. I'm glad suicide is hard -- If it were easy, I probably would've done it by now. Recent medical developments have filled me with hope: Reports of life-long mental illnesses being cured through simple diet changes. Gut microbiome transplants are shaping up to be a game changer. Knowing this, all my suicidal urges have died. There is a quote: "Every suicide comes too late". But it is well that it comes too late, because for each person there may be something special fate has in store, which rewards them for clinging onto life. You may say that's improbable, but it happened to me. My prediction is Gut-brain research will soon cure a lot of depressives who believed they were fated for suicide. Let suicide be our last resort: When all other options are exhausted, when every last shred of hope is gone. Until that point, suicide is simply not the correct choice. >They are who convinced me it's selfish of me to demand they stick around just because I don't want to lose their friendship. That would be selfish. But again, I never argued suicide is unethical; only that making it difficult to commit suicide is in humanity's best interest.

Was going to make a suicide related thread but I'll lurk this since it popped up.

>>34367 > pass some arbitrary test you have to pass some 'arbitrarily defined' tests to eat, to sleep, to tie your shoes and walk outside. The government and society don't do these things for you. So it should be with suicide, the arbitrary test is that this is a modestly difficult problem to be solved. Unlike eating breakfast however, it will likely happen by itself if you do litterally nothing.

>>34361 >This is seriously the first time I've ever encountered someone who is anti-suicide but pro-UBI. Not that lain, but I am also anti-suicide and pro-UBI. There was a UBI thread here a while ago so I know there are a number of other pro-UBI lains who may be posting here too.

>>34368 >I have a great reason: 99% of people who want to commit suicide, really shouldn't do it. Source? If you cannot provide one, you're just imposing your will on other people's lives. Actually, it still wouldn't matter if you had a source. 100% of people should definitely exercise, but making it illegal not to is fuarrrked up. How do you not see that? It doesn't matter what is good for someone, you have no right to force them to do it. It'd probably result in a healthier society and healthier individuals if we criminalized abortion and adoption. But that doesn't matter. Mothers have the right to opt out of parenthood (through abortion), and men, well, we live in a gynocracy, but if we didn't, men would have that right too (through financial abortion). Another example, not sure if you're the NEET guy or not, but it probably would be both better for society and for you if you were forced against your will to work in the labor camps like under communism. But you (hopefully) relish the fact that you have the freedom to choose to not work. It'd probably be better for society and for individuals if we had state mandated arranged marriages. But as an American I at least would prefer to have the freedom to choose to live with someone and start a family or not. I'm an American damnit. Idk man, I think we're just talking past each other at this point. Idk how else to explain this. At least society seems to be moving in the legal euthanasia direction. It's already legal in parts of America as well as in Canada and a few countries in Europe.

>>34366 >Well, we were having a discussion about ethics. What should happen vs. what will are often different things. Right, but what I'm saying has implications for the ethics. I think one of the most compelling reasons not to additionally support suicide as a society is the way a person's environment flows together with their personal choices. That taboo fails, suicide can become a sort of self perpetuating release valve, and the things that need to change for a saner system may be delayed or prevented from changing. People whose lives have been made miserable, should have their misery seen, and not handed a noose and suggested to not bother anyone. Basically I mostly agree with you, and offer additional reasons.

Suicide should be mandatory. Bottom text.

Is there any anti-euthanasia person in this thread who is also pro-abortion? If so, how do your reconcile it being legal for a woman to end the life of her child but it's illegal for a woman to kill herself?

>>34378 You do realize Denis Leary's character in Demolition Man was supposed to be the bad guy, right? He even literally admits in the quote you posted.

>>34386 It's not a child dumbass. PS. The only reason suicide is bad, is because you can't fuarrrk with the governments property.

>>34397 My bad. I never meant to say an aborted fetus was a child. But it is the woman's body. If she wants to kill her own body, that's her choice. You're spot on about why suicide is illegal. Please explain that to this thread of religious retards, because I don't seem to be able to.

>>34378 >Source? If you cannot provide one, you're just imposing your will on other people's lives. >Actually, it still wouldn't matter if you had a source. 100% of people should definitely exercise, but making it illegal not to is fuarrrked up. I think you're the one talking past me; I wrote that making it illegal is dumb in the previous post. >It doesn't matter what is good for someone, you have no right to force them to do it. Like I said, no one is being forced to live. You can't stop someone who wants to kill themselves -- even prisoners do it all the time. The point is, we have no reason to make it easy for people to kill themselves. That will just result in tons of needless deaths, for curable problems. I dunno how you're missing my point to be honest. Everyone has a right to suicide, but that doesn't mean society should hand us a free "One way ticket to death" on a golden platter the second we ask. That will just result in needless death, no?

>>34405 No it won't result in needless death because clearly the person who wants to die felt like they needed to do it. Just like any woman who gets an abortion feels like she needs it. It'd be nice if we had a society where no one ever felt the need to get an abortion or commit suicide, but we just don't live in that world. Am I right in assuming you're vehemently anti-abortion? If you don't believe in "your body, your choice" then we might be at an impasse. Also please tell me if you've ever been suicidal or talked with someone who is suicidal about their planned suicide. I think you just have never been exposed to how actual suicidal people think. Sure, some are just teenagers or women acting out for attention, but the vast majority are not. It's usually incels in the 30s-50s who come to the realization that, not only will they die alone, everyone in society is begging for them to kill themselves. This belief you hold is why I think you have not talked with enough suicidal people btw: >If someone wants to die, all they have to do is nothing, and they die automatically, therefore there is no reason to make it easier for them to die. I see why someone who hasn't really had any experience with a real suicidal person in real life would think that. On paper, that makes sense. But in reality here is what happens: men choose suicide by cop because it's one of the easiest ways to commit suicide in America. Suicide by cop requires the suicider to first commit violent crime like a mass shooting, and it has to be extreme enough that a SWAT team is instructed to shoot to kill. No one wants to suffer, least of all a suicidal person. So demanding they go through the torture of slow starvation, or drowning themselves, or immolating themselves, or hanging themselves, or risking survival by jumping off a building, etc is not the option they're gonna pick. Even blowing your own head off with a shotgun runs a 30% risk of surviving. Yeah, it probably is because they're not doing it right, but do you really think a suicidal person is gonna have enough confidence in their engineering abilities to rig and aim a perfect Rube Goldberg device to kill themselves with 100% accuracy? No. Therefore it's much more rational for suicidal people to provoke trained killers (i.e. cops) into doing their dirty work for them. So what ends up happening is a mass shooting epidemic. So rather than saying "tough soykaf, suicidally depressed guy; figure out how to kill yourself on your own" it is better for everyone if we provide a relatively safe, easy, risk-free government suicide option like they have in civilized countries like Luxembourg, the Netherlands, or New Zealand. Because if we don't we're just going to get more and more mass killings. That's the clear trend so far.

even if it's unethical to coerce someone to live it's even more unethical to coerce someone to kill themselves and legal euthanasia enables the latter much more than it disables the former.

>>34414 No one is suggesting we force someone to kill themselves. Just that the people who want to do shouldn't have to resort to suicide by cop. Though in a way suicide by cop is already free government euthanasia. I just think the free government euthanasia offered ought to be less violent

>>34409 I told you, I've had suicidal thoughts. My family fell apart, I failed out of college, my father went crazy & my brain is a mess. How much do I have to prove that I've suffered before you'll engage with my actual arguments? Isn't it possible for two people to go through similar experiences and come out with differing conclusions? If not, why even have discussions? >do you really think a suicidal person is gonna have enough confidence in their engineering abilities to rig and aim a perfect Rube Goldberg device to kill themselves with 100% accuracy? No. That would be jumping off a building or drowning. We went over this. >Because if we don't we're just going to get more and more mass killings. No one is forced to suicide by cop, it's a purely selfish and irrational action when other methods guarantee swift and near painless death. The only reason someone does this is out of a combination of stupidity, laziness, and cruelty. The only angle from which I'll agree with you is that sure, if we come up with a cleanish way for people to commit suicide which doesn't disrupt or traumatize others (like suicide by cop/building jumping/jumping in front of trains does), then of course it would be an improvement. Like the current Dutch system. But I heavily disagree that it should be open to the masses. No, just as the people who devised these systems agree, they should be open only to those who've exhausted all other options. And even such a solid idea as this already has problems with coercion, as >>34414 mentions. One story which makes headlines now and again is men who live around suicide hotspots like Aokigahara or Beachy Head. When they spot a person who looks suicidal, they go over and talk to them. These men claim to have dissuaded hundreds from suicide. You can interpret this in a few different ways -- the pessimist's view suggests he simply pressured them out of it via force, made it too awkward to commit suicide. But the optimist's view suggests he calmly walked over, asked what's the matter, and had a nice, disarming chat with them. One totally free of monetary incentive (i.e. superior to therapy), and simply compassionate: Why do you desire to end your life? They explain. And before long, he has explained in plain terms a truth which feels obvious to him, but the depressed person struggles to notice due to endless discursive thinking. He slowly guides them along, until it hits them: Suicide is not the answer. It never was. Maybe someday, but not today. This is what suicidal people need, not a $0.25 suicide booth. It's such a simple conversation, yet painfully rare - even if we tried, most of us couldn't have it. There's no one around to help us. I'll ask you now to engage with what I've said, and not just claim I'm being needlessly cruel, or "haven't suffered enough". I'm just not going to respond to that crap twice.

Some of the people in this thread are kinda... I mean, it was mentioned already right? Go to the hardware store and get bolt-cutters. Don't want to pay? What, are they gonna arrest you? Now walk or drive or take a bus to a tall building with your tools in a cheap bag. Get as high up as you can, and just break locked doors open with the appropriate tools. Or better yet, just find some active train tracks nearby with an Internet browsing session, and walk over there and die. Anyone who cannot properly kill themselves isn't mentally coherent to make decisions like this.

>The only angle from which I'll agree with you is that sure, if we come up with a cleanish way for people to commit suicide which doesn't disrupt or traumatize others (like suicide by cop/building jumping/jumping in front of trains does), then of course it would be an improvement. Like the current Dutch system. But I heavily disagree that it should be open to the masses. No, just as the people who devised these systems agree, they should be open only to those who've exhausted all other options. And even such a solid idea as this already has problems with coercion, as >>34414 mentions. Society will not shun you for embracing Solipsism at the end of your life. You have no reason to believe that the material world exists outside of your subjective experience. The world is about as likely to be real as Super Mario Bros. You have no proof that anyone exists to be traumatized by these tactics at all. Unfortunately, due to having never experienced death before, you also have no proof that it is possible to die...

Ever thought about how easy it would be to shove someone into one of these booths/pods if they were just everywhere? Take it easy.

I feel people have severe misunderstanding about how complex suicide is. They have a limited scope of what drives people to death. Sometimes I feel people abuse others or get abused in plain sight. Or the issue is chronic and draining in some way. Painful memory and betrayal. Loss. Matters of the heart and soul should remain outside legal punishment as much as possible. Society at large does not and can not make accurate judgement about the complex life of someone hurting. They're simply making their own judgement. People rarely understand that like psychosis a chronic depression truly limits your scope. Making everything impossible or unenjoyable, scary. A waste of time. My point is perception is changeable. I would tell people, anyone who truly was suffering to survive to do what makes them happy. Even if it's using drugs to maintain. The amount of people who do that is staggering. And most often they make it through. I suppose for some people I noticed if you need drugs to make you happy, your probably suffering more from life than drugs. I would rather instead of some ridiculous suicide process make drugs and therapy more available. And if you remove the underworld component of psychoactive drugs you remove shame and hatred. Anxiety. I'd rather use heroin in a scheduled and controlled manor and survive my hardships then submit to the pain in my body. I'd rather use MDMA or amphetamines to tear down the walls of psychological injuries and learn how to be okay through experience. Processing issues depress people. Psychedelics show promise for those on the crossroads of life. My point is simple. There are tools and there are tolls. Let us die with an improved Outlook. On our own terms after we can say we may never feel better. Emotional and mental pain must be treated just as physical pain. Medically mentally and environmentally. Stay alive out there

>>34427 This lain understands. Unfortunately this sort of drug therapy will never be legal, because then people might actually start to pull their heads out of the sand. We have known for decades the kind of benefit drug-assisted therapy can provide, but nothing is ever done to make it a real thing that the people who need it have access to. Instead we are forced to self-medicate, and as laws become stricter and big brother watches more and more of what we all do even this will likely become impossible in time. The blood is on the hands of everyone who keeps this kind of thing illegal and taboo. When I think of how many people could benefit from this, myself included, it just makes me sick. fuarrrk the law. Also, a depressed individual is generally a good consumer, and the main focus of the powers that be is to turn us all into mindless consumers, so it is no wonder they actively suppress giving people the tools they need to help themselves.

>>34250 As someone who was suicidal, and still is on occasion, I don't think many people here really understand what its like and focus on whether a person's feelings are truly genuine or not. It's not as simple as that. You can really want to end your life and genuinely feel like things would be better if you didn't exist and still struggle when it comes down to actually killing yourself. There are a lot of things racing through your head, will it be painful? What will my family feel? Can I actually do it? Is anyone watching me? You mull these things over. It takes a lot of courage to kill yourself and isn't as simple as "people who genuinely want it will do it." I don't think suicide should be penalized and I don't think everyone who is suicidal should be thrown in a hospital. In many ways, the fear of being locked up and scrutinized by medical professionals and the shame that comes with it is a reason a lot of people don't seek help and end up venting online. On the other hand, I don't think it should be morally acceptable with this fanatic liberal obsession with consent. The fact that I'm religious and my religion frowns on suicide is probably the biggest reason I'm still alive today. It was one of the big things that pulled me back from the brink and convinced me to keep on living. Now, this idea that suicide should be subsidized or supported by the government to solve societal problems is just sickening. It reduces people to just a statistic who can be managed for shallow utilitarian ends. It's looking at people as nothing more than tools or resources that are dispensable and disposable but justified through this idea of consent. Firstly, I'm not a sucker for consent as an ethical standard but, for the sake of argument, let's take it surface value. Can a person who is experiencing suicidal thoughts consent? If your so overwhelmed by emotions can you actually make a sensible decision when it comes to ending your life? Arguably, you can't make an informed decision in that state.

>>34428 I believe there is change for opiate and opioid addiction with the recognition of how it gets above you and truly changes you. Addiction itself is a medical illness that varies in degrees and symptoms. It's not so simple as willpower. A corporations job and goal is to grow. There is no high ground on fundamental needs. Everyone gets it. And being so anti consumerist or anti capitalist doesn't really accomplish anything. People make things that people pay for while trying to make the least or cheapest product. And in capitalism it can be cheap crap or over priced luxury.

>>34430 In my own terms of it all. People are all unique. It requires personalized solutions and compromises when it comes to responders. People have the right to die but it's selfish. And I feel people don't want people to give up in their pain because time moves on for most people. They don't get stuck even if they are lost sometimes. People just want others to live and be tough enough to do it. It shouldn't be easy to choose death. I knew great people who are dead now. They didn't know how loved and thought of they truly were. Everyone wishes they believed that. It's awful. And it shouldn't be so easy but good help truly is hard to get. And that's based on who they were and what they needed.

Looks like OP is more or less getting his wish. We probably ought to have more of a cultural debate about this given how divided we are about it even on this niche imageboard.

>>34430 >You can really want to end your life and genuinely feel like things would be better if you didn't exist and still struggle when it comes down to actually killing yourself. There are a lot of things racing through your head, will it be painful? What will my family feel? Can I actually do it? Is anyone watching me? You mull these things over. It takes a lot of courage to kill yourself and isn't as simple as "people who genuinely want it will do it." Major depression also saps you of your willpower and energy. It's easy to say, "If I was suicidal, I'd just go to the nearest tall building, break onto the roof, and jump," but the reality is that if you're majorly depressed, the part of your brain that gives you motivation and rewards related to meeting your goals is not working properly. Small obstacles become much more difficult to overcome - thus you spend days in bed and pissing in bottles because even just walking to the bathroom feels insurmountable. There is a theory that this is related to why antidepressants increase suicide rates during their first couple months of use. The antidepressants stabilize your brain enough that you have a little more motivation, but dont stabilize it enough that you're not suicidal anymore, thus you're finally able to follow through with your suicide plan.

>>34434 I'd say a right to die is pointless since it's practically impossible to restrict someone's ability to commit suicide if they are already heading down that track. Legalizing it would only encourage it and before you know it fat capitalists would come in with their big finance and now we have a cottage suicide industry with people pushed and encouraged to kill themselves through social media pressure and classic marketing strategies of shaming people. >>34436 I can't help feeling that this is a new kind of eugenics. Just purge society of undesirables by making suicide more available while refusing to address the route cause of WHY they are suicidal or messed up in the first place. Liberal society is individualist and hedonist to the core. Every problem is an individual one, society can never be to blame, and we wouldn't want anyone to ruin our hedonistic party by demanding things like social reform, or adjustment, or pointing out this breakneck productivity and achievement obsessed consumer society is literally killing people. Nope, the solution is to just let the unhappy and maladjusted kill themselves and thereby sweep society's problems under the rug.

>>34439 >while refusing to address the route cause of WHY they are suicidal or messed up in the first place. That's a nice ideal, but society clearly doesn't have the will to do that. Suicide rates are only going up and the only solution people seem to entertain is further restrict our right to bear arms. Humans aren't built to give a crap about anyone outside our Dunbar's number. You can preach all you want about how society shouldn't be such that people want to kill themselves, but it just ain't gonna happen. And hell, the quality of life doesn't seem to matter all that much anyway. Belgium and South Korea are great places to live. Hardly any crime, hardly any blacks, yet they also have some of the highest suicide rates in the world. Conversely, veritable hellholes like Syria or the Phillipines (where drug dealers are executed by a more retarded version of Trump) have some of the lowest suicide rates: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/suicide-rate-by-country Brace yourself for a Joe Rogan clip in which he is interviewing a guy who explains the counterintuitive reason why sociologists think wealthier, generally better countries have higher suicide rates: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=brEU5j4IsxU tl;dw it's because when everyone has it easy and there are no real obstacles to your success, if you end up being a failure it stings that much more because you can't blame anyone as for it

>>34439 But breakneck productivity exists precisely because we have overpopulation problem. We have more people than there are jobs. So employers own the game. If you do not like their soykafty conditions then there are thousands of others who are ok with that. People driven by something like sense of duty or desire to contribute to community will probably work even if business pay them nothing. So from a business perspective anyone who wants a pay is not competitive and not fit for a job. Without pay anyone sane has not reason to work. More on how it came to be this way: Since 1980s when factories started to become automated. Before automation they employed thousands of people each. Even events like Youngtown in the US, Thatcher firing miners and miners protests in the UK, even collapse of the USSR. All happened because of that new fundamental change to the world order. After automation all these former factory workers are pushed into a ever shrinking job market to compete for remaining jobs. Automation destroys more and more jobs. So surplus of people gets bigger and bigger. Employers take advantage of the situation and government does nothing to rule in it. The only two real solutions is either Universal Basic Income or a gigantic massacre that will wipe out the surplus of population. However businesses do not want UBI since it will eliminate their advantage. Governments are wary there are still jobs that cannot be automated I would prefer UBI now, however let there be suicides and a giant massacre if there is no UBI. If we do nothing, the misery will only keep increasing. Retired generation owe their, unconcerned with material needs, happy go lucky (all you need is love) youth to WWII. Unfortunately there were no major wars or pandemics, that could achieve a similar prosperity for us Millennials. COVID killed measly 6.5 millions so far. WWII casualties were 75-80 millions. I think we need at least 200 million this time, pick up the pace COVID All retirees do is desperately cling to their useless lives and waste our limited financial resources on various medical treatments to give themselves another 5 or so useless pathetic years of 'living'. At least my parents of 1954 are like that. Kudos to those who are not like that. Who never spent big money on medical treatment to prolong their lives another 5 years.

>>34250 Obviously the best answer would be "create a world where people don't have to work to live a life they hate" or something similar but that will never happen. Really the governments should just stop getting into people's way with this stuff. Sure you can't be charged with your own suicide if you're dead, but assisting someone else's suicide is a felony or something similar in many places. That includes selling people tools to off themselves knowingly. There's soykaf like pentobarbitol that will literally put you to sleep then peacefully kill you but you cannot even get it illegally anymore. Nobody's selling it and taking the risk. Also keep in mind that if you've been involuntarily commited into a mental hospital for suicidal ideation you cannot own firearms in even in most pro gun places. Then people will suggest you do the most outrageous nonsense out of bad faith "oh, if you really want to die, just go throw yourself off a building bro". The often memed suicide booth or something similar would be next in the ideal list but good luck convincing the masses, and I am almost certain scum (read:most humans) will find a way to abuse it and get innocents murdered. The one thing that can be done relatively easily is the decriminalization of suicide, and suicide "assisting" through the selling/providing of methods. The government really should stay out of people's lives if they don't ask for assistance. Pretty sure I'm biased though. I've hated my life since I was 7 and am now a working adult. It doesn't get better. If there were official paths to peaceful death I'd instantly sign up. Or UBI so I never had to leave the house again lol.

>>37101 >If there were official paths to peaceful death I'd instantly sign up can you tell us what specifically is stopping you from just killing yourself right now or this week ? Just the fact that you can't get a ''''peaceful'''' death with confidence, but you trust the medical system to deliver?

>>37103 NTL but the success rate for most suicide methods is 80% or below. Even suicide by firearm only has a 75% success rate. That means there is a 1 in 4 chance you become a permanently disfigured cripple and it becomes orders of magnitude harder to kill yourself again. If you already think you're unlucky in life, taking that risk is terrifying. Again, one of the best, most reliable ways to commit suicide has become the suicide-by-cop method i.e. go out with a killing spree before finally being shot down (which btw is actually a freely available government-provided suicide albeit violent). If you try shooting yourself in your living room but don't get a kill shot, it will be difficult to shoot yourself a second time AND your neighbors will probably call 911 which will deliver an ambulance to your house, then you will be resuscitated against your will. On the other hand, if you're on a rampage with 5 stars, cops will just unload their entire magazine into you for fun, so you're guaranteed to die provided you don't surrender. Are you suggesting he goes on a shooting spree because he can't get a ""peaceful"" death? You are, so fuarrrk you.

>>37252 I think the reason so many of those suicides are failures is because people don't think things through very well at all. Look at failed gun suicide cases, most of the ones I've found share some similarities; they look like they take a long gun, and stick it under their chin and pointing nearly straight up in such a way that they mostly just shoot their faces off, and they generally speaking do it with people close by with keen interests in their survival, and in cities with presumably not terribly ambulance response times. Recipie for disaster. If you want to shoot yourself, why not drive four hours to some middle of nowhere hiking spot and do it there when no one even knows you've left? this way even if you royally miss and are still alive no one knows you've done it, no one knows to look for you, and even if an ambulance comes asap you'll have probably an extra hour to bleed out during. Take an asprin or three during the drive to reduce clotting. Whats left of you will be found maybe in a few days when a hiker notices the vultures. So many suicides fail because they are either impulsive and done by people who can't think straight enough to form a rational plan (if they could maybe they wouldnt suicide), or done by idiots. Frequently these work, but sometimes they get (un)lucky.

>>37252 and relatedly is suicide by cop even terribly reliable? there's definitly plenty of cases where it doesnt work; cops frequently call ambulances fast and sometimes just cripple you for life, better to do it yourself in a careful and thoughtout way.

>>37257 Here in America suicide by cop is extremely reliable. They are trained to shoot to kill to avoid messy legal problems from survivors. Can't sue the state for police harassment if you're dead. There is no incentive to keep mass shooters alive. When you're actually trying to commit suicide, your damn primal instincts will make you flinch away. That primal instinct to protect yourself also kicks in when the cops are pointing guns at you, but it doesn't matter because multiple police officers will all be shooting you at once. So are you okay with people killing themselves out in the woods but not suicide booths?

>>37265 He probably just thinks we shouldn't make it too convenient or there would be many, many more suicides. I'm personally fine with gatekeeping suicide.

>>37265 >When you're actually trying to commit suicide, your damn primal instincts will make you flinch away I used to think this might be the problem with firearm suicide failures (fsf), but after reading cases of them, I no longer do. Take the guy[1] in pic related. From what I can tell he used that gun to shoot himself in the head in a suicide attempt. Thats an extremely awkward shot, maybe he flinched but its very likely his aim was never that true in the first place. Most of the cases of FSF appear to involve long guns, which makes aiming at yourself is extremely difficult. Now shooting your face off is a valid suicide strategy by itself, albeit a little less immediate than shotgun to the brain. Most FSFs would die but for the fact that help is close at hand. Take the case of Katie Stubblefield [2], who shot herself with a rifle in a bathroom of a house while her brother was in the other room. He was immediately able to call for assistance. An extra hour to bleed out in would likely have killed her, but between her lack of foresight and poor aim, she survived. My innawoods plan manages even with a bad shot like these, because it forces help to be far away, and reduces the chance of a quick call for assistance as generally occurs during an FSF. 1: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/worldnews/15200321/man-blows-off-jaw-nose-shotgun-trying-kill-himself/ (shotgun to the face after driving around city for hours. apparently he didnt even loose consciousness and left the car after shooting, where a passerby noticed and called for help). 2: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/14/health/face-transplant-suicide-attempt-natgeo-profile/index.html (rifle to the face in occupied house, brother calls for assistance). TLDR: firearm suicide failures generally occur because of specific identifiable mistakes made on the part of the attemptor, which can be avoided with minimal foresight and planning. >So are you okay with people killing themselves out in the woods but not suicide booths? I think suicide should be frowned upon generally and no public assistance should be offered to make it easier. I think its impossible to at large scale prevent people from killing themselves if they want to, so no laws against suicide are limiting your freedom, simply expressing public disapproval. I guess I basically agree with >>32766 .

>In some places, it's actually illegal to kill yourself. its bewmer logic. blame bewmers what else did they make? credit cards loyalty cards fast food febreze tide tax "its all going digital now" cars that have gone digital hvac that has gone digital 3000 years of jail for hacking a habbo hotel account 3000 years of jail for pirating actual garbage music of negative value like rod stewart circumcision un*x

>>37306 >credit cards invented in the late 19th century (not the late 1900s) >fast food depending on how you want to look at it, this dates back to the middle ages or maybe to ancient Rome, or if you want to stick strictly to modern fast food in America, this was not a buumurism, but came in the wake of World War I, led by White Castle, then A&W, and the general rise of the drive-in restaurant. >loyalty cards trading stamps, 19th century betty crocker coupons/box tops, 1929 >febreze developed and launched in the mid-to-late '90s, probably by a Gen-X chemist >tide introduced in 1946, when any existing baby buumurs would have been <1 year old >unucks dennis ritchie born 1941, ken thompson born 1943 >cars that have gone digital not a specific invention >criminal penalties for such-and-such not an invention and not creditable to any one person >"its all going digital now" not an invention, also, binary number system refined in the early 18th century, digital logic in the mid-19th century, logic operations using electronic circuits late 19th century, first modern electronic AND gate 1924, first electronic digital computers developed during WW II for targeting, first programmable automatic digital computer 1941, the term "digital" proposed in 1942 >tax literally in the bible / in evidence in ancient egypt >circumcision oldest known surgical procedure, predates written history >legal prohibition/consequences against suicide ancient athens ====== Score: 0/14 ======

>>37320 credit cards started in the 1960s you absolute retard who just googled some soykaf and got the wrong answer. and then the buumurs ate it up. otherwise it would not have become a force to reckon with >fast food >ackchually im obviously talking about mcdonalds dumbass >loyalty cards what you described is pure cancer too and the pre buumers were cancer too all their music was insufferable garbage even black buumers. >tide >adopted by buumurs thank you. >muh k&r born dis n dat year theyre literally buumurs and everyone who worshipped them >its all going digital now >not an invention >akchtually point invalid dildo fuarrrking i would say "you know what the point is here this isnt a court case" but you probably have actual autism and genuinely dont understand while still deciding to rebuttal your half complete guess at what i was saying >tax current doctrines are tanks to buumurs who were too fukken stupid to have used their counterculture to oppose the number 1 source of oppression. they have memes like muh dis n dat mob boss was caught by tax therefore it makes perfect sense to spend hundreds of hours a year on tax issues for my small business >circumcision buumurs all got their children circumcised. it only happens in one place in the world called america which the only place where buumers are. also youre autistic for all your points and this one as well for thinking this is relevant to this discussion >score 0/14 literally pic related

this s o y kalf is not about su1cide please talk about suicide not which century credi7 c@rds were invented in or whether being born in 1941 counts as a b o o mer what the fuarrrk

>>34440 >And hell, the quality of life doesn't seem to matter all that much anyway. Belgium and South Korea are great places to live. Hardly any crime, hardly any blacks, yet they also have some of the highest suicide rates in the world. Conversely, veritable hellholes like Syria or the Phillipines (where drug dealers are executed by a more retarded version of Trump) This argument doesn't sound! 1.) The presents of persons of colour doesn't matter. 2.) South Korea is a hellish place if you a male person and not very smart or hardworking. Just read the high expactations. 3.) Belgium has a lots of problems. Not to speak of the risig "religous problems" (if you understand). 4.) Do you believe statistics from "hellholes"? Why? Because you want it to be?

>>37320 >oldest known surgical procedure, predates written history You are clearly circumcised in body and mind. Think about it. Circumcision renders the shaft skin taut and immobile, and the glans permanently exposed, thus desensitized. Your manner of thought and behavior is identical to this. You have a brain circumcision. Your brain and behavior are circumcised. You are fully circumcised.

I think it's simple: >in theory Do a flip! >in practice It's just another convenient way for the government to get rid of people it doesn't desire. Don't like it? Here's a prescription for assisted suicide, doctor's orders! Just look at what's going on in Canada.

>>37484 >2.) South Korea is a hellish place if you a male person and not very smart or hardworking. Just read the high expactations. South Korea is circumcised.

>>37498 Dear Sir, Everyone on this chan (lainchan) knows your position on circumcision (it is viced). I beg of you to stop just calling everything circumcised or Clamped or other synonyms for Fake and Gay. These do not contribute to conversations and are Tiresome and Repetative. Thank you Sir. t. lainchanner

>>37499 I appreciate your formality on this matter. I will take it under strong consideration.

>>37499 Although to be clear, I meant it literally. South Korea is literally circumcised. A decent amount of the world foreskin supply comes from there.

>>37485 You clearly lack a circumcised heart. Read your bible, kiddo: Deuteronomy 10:14-16 Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it. Yet on your fathers did the Lord set His affection to love them, and He chose their descendants after them, even you above all peoples, as it is this day. So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer.