Actually good dating/relationship advice

Recently I've been playing a lot of dating sims and it just underlines how detached I've become from other homo sapiens. I barely have any friends and I struggle to hold conversations with most people. But I'm tired of being apathetic and negative about it so I've decided to get out there and make a change and try and meet girls and talk to them more, but I feel like I'm out of the loop and that most normal people operate at a level that I just can't keep up with or understand. Naturally you go to the internet for advice but 90% of it is just garbage, trash from Robert Greene books, incel soykaf, or junk written by people who claim they've found a scientific method of dealing with women when they are little more than idiot pick up artists. So what are some actually good resources for what to do and what not to do when trying to be romantic with the opposite sex? Even if its just being friendly or as basic as having a conversation.

I'm definitely not the best-fit lainon to give advice on this, but the most important thing imo to keep in mind is that you shouldn't try too hard and/or try to force things to work out. If it's not meant to be, then it's just not. Even if women don't give you attention, don't turn into some desperate incel, please, you're better than that. I've personally started going outside more recently, just going to the library and enjoying casual conversations with people. It's not hard if you don't have ridiculous expectations, don't expect le random pretty girl that you just met to fall for you. It may certainly be awkward, but you will get better at socializing if you do it enough. Speaking to new people, breathing fresh air, having a walk among the green stuff, admiring a beautiful afternoon sky and listening to the birds are all great experiences in themselves, if you actually pay attention to what's around you.

I'm the lainon from >>34189. Another thing that I forgot to say is that, in human relationships, the most important thing is understanding and empathizing to each other. It's definitely not easy, but you can always just try to be as considerate and sensible as possible, even if you can't understand their feelings right away, you may get the chance eventually. Always pause and think about what you're about to say so that you dont fuarrrk it up.

>>34187 Personally I think the best process is 1. Become content with being single. 2. Form a lot of genuine friendships with women. 3. A relationship with form organically You need to be content with being single and happy with yourself, otherwise your desire for s relationship will loom over everything. It's also not attractive when someone feels like they need a relationship to be happy. It will also put too much pressure on any relationship that you do form. Then befriend a lot of women. Don't talk to any them with the goal of dating them. Talk to them solely with the goal of being a friend. Go into it with no expectation or hope for sex or romance. Just friendship. Be respectful and empathetic as you would with any of your male friends. Don't do anything creepy. Literally, just treat them like regular people. As you do this, your social circle will grow and contain more women. Eventually, you'll meet a woman who romantically clicks with you, one of your friends will set you up with someone she knows, or one of your friends will catch feelings. Even if that never happens, because of step one, you should be happy anyway and you'll have a bunch of new friends. I stress again, the friendships should be genuine. If you're just befriending women in hopes of dating them, that's not a genuine friendship and they'll catch on and feel objectified by you.

>>34192 how long have you and your wife (whom you met with this strategy) been together?

>>34187 I don't think you can receive meaningful advice for interacting with people socially, whether it be for friendships or love. I certainly have never received any meaningful advice. We'll probably have to learn through experience. I struggle to socialize with just about everyone in life as well so I can't give advice on friendships. I don't think it's a great idea to try to be friends with anyone. I tried to be friends with people I essentially had nothing in common with fairly recently, and it was just a waste of my time and energy. I don't think you should try to be romantic either. Just interact with girls how you typically would. If you go searching for love you will soon be discouraged and become demoralized, love will come to you in time. I've been friends with a girl for a while now, she likes me, she has for a while so I guess we'll date eventually, I just don't know how to show her I feel the same way. However, I never tried to do anything, in the beginning she was polite and friendly towards me and I wanted to reciprocate that treatment, eventually we became friends. Although I did put myself out there to her at some point, I made an effort to strike up a conversation, since then we've chatted every day we've been around each other. As for things girls like, I wouldn't want to say there are things all girls like so I will just say some girls. For what I can immediately think of some girls seem to like calmness, be relaxed. Also you should talk to them fairly slowly in a low voice, just don't talk fast. They will care about appearance to some extent, if you smell and have dry skin that will repel them. Anything you think would offput a girl probably will. If you're gonna hang out with a girl you should probably take charge of what you do together, but maybe there could be some times where you wouldn't benefit from that, you can figure it out for yourself. If they ever need help or seem to need help offer it.

Weirdly the thing that worked for me was taking the time and effort to take some really good pictures of myself and assembling them into an unusual dating app profile. Got LOTS of matches and met my current gf after a few crappy first dates. >I barely have any friends and I struggle to hold conversations with most people. Yup, same. I'm also extremely bad at public speaking and sometimes I stutter. I used to be very quiet. Just don't be embarrassed by it. Talk about whatever you find interesting to whoever will listen. It builds confidence and also makes you more visible. >>34192 Step one isn't necessary to be honest. Just don't try to fuarrrk every woman you meet. And I think it's not unusual for there to be sexual tension between single friends with compatible sexualities, at least at first. Sort of a 'we get along, and you're not too unattractive. Why not fuarrrk?' subconscious desire. Just ignore it unless you want the relationship to become extremely complicated.

>>34192 The issue I have is that I tend to loose interest in relationships very quickly. I'm pretty reclusive and keep to myself. I know this sounds bad, but after a while I don't know how to keep up with a group of friends and just end up doing nothing. It's like a task you've been meaning to do but you keep putting it off out of laziness. Whenever I get into a group of friends I quickly loose interest and become reclusive again which causes us to drift apart. I kinda want to try dating to see if the feeling is any different. >>34194 >Just interact with girls how you typically would Until now, I've tended to just ignore them, avoid them, or act cold around them (basically how I usually would treat everybody). Basically, interacting with the opposite sex is completely new to me and I have no clue how to treat them. I've found I can lower my guard a lot more around some women so I guess I'm making some progress. >>34196 >Just don't try to fuarrrk every woman you meet I'm pretty burnout when it comes to sex. It's like society is so sex obsessed and so crazy about hyping it up I just don't care about it. It just feels like stupid hype.

>>34229 >It just feels like stupid hype. idk, good sex feels really really really good. Hard to describe why.

What should I say to this meow meow meow tiger woman?

>>37729 *cool voice* hey babey, wanna go cruisin' the web with me? I know this web site called www.lainchan.org, all the coolest cats hang out there.

>>34249 When I realized I could give myself better orgasms more reliably with hentai than I could with my live-in gf, I pretty much swore off women and I've never been happier.

https://www.amazon.com/Dating-Without-Fear-Overcome-Anxiety/dp/B0B14RS12Q/ Good book on the subject I found useful, have read a bunch but this is like the only one I think is actually thoughtful/insightful. Also has a yt with some stuff but it's much more focused on social anxiety. Other then that read some Jane Austen novels, pride and prejudiced is a good one to start with. Everything else is just meeting people and the standard generic advice is as good as it gets for that. (have hobbies that let you be around people, find people with similar hobbies, clubs, groups, cafes, concerts, libraries etc. etc.)

>>37732 I'm also addicted to porn but I crave the intimacy and good feelings of sex much much more than I do simply having an orgasm.

>>37732 I'd criticize you but dating these days is like kicking dead whales down the beach so much I can't really blame you for being this way. >>37733 Do women actually read Jane Austen?

>>34187 Being a 30 year old virgin, by this point it's basically hardwired that connecting with other people is not only impossible but highly destructive. I associate conneciton of any kind with complete annihilation. It ends and remakes the world. Visibility is vulnerability, connection is cruelty, closeness is mutual harm, change is death. That's how the system was designed. The biggest problem is I was never supposed to see myself as a person. After doing so and gaining aprtial awareness, I was also caught between worlds. Able to feel alone and a bit of pain and regret, but too screwed up to connect as a real person and too aware to connect through apathy and mind blindness, just do and say whatever I want (I call this negative confidence and inverted hope, death drive). I can't go back to being my own golem and living through a mission because I started to see the entire world as sexual and gained the ability to see separation. Previously I sublimated or transmuted the libido, when this collapsed the result was what I dub hypersexual diffusion, which can't be reigned in or directed. When I saw the entire world as my body beyond body, and mind beyond mind, I thought "when you hurt the others, you hurt yourself." This was damaged to the point where it inverted to "when you help the others, you hurt yourself. The weaker they are, the less they're in the way". If I try to help anyone I feel it through my whole body, a revolting sensation as though I am changing "the world's" sex stained sheets. I want nothing to do with any of them. So there is nothing left to do. Trapped between worlds. But gradually retracing my steps and rebuilding. I was produced through prolonged isolation and near omnipresent physical and psychological torture to the point where I created and went to wonderland in an attempt to fix the real world through it like an interface. I'm too drained these days, and I don't know if I should be trying to rebuild it. I lack the confidence and blind faith that comes only from knowing your back is to the wall and you're circling the drain, so you can offer up the body and mind as sacrifices. I think my only real fixation at this point is strictly the penetrative aspect. No warmth, no desire for another person, nor sharing the inner worlds, romance, or whatever. So that alone is repulsive. And you'd think I'd be able to expand it to something broader and more holistic, or contract it out of existence entirely, but I cannot. Whatever it stems from is invisible to me and I can't alter or eliminate it. So I have to build it up again, layer over it.

>>34187 I don't know I gave up long ago

>>34187 it's all you need: https://dacemars.com/best-attachment-books/

>>37738 >picrel But she loves me enough to tell me not to waste my time, which makes her more capable of love than 90% of womxn. >>37736 You let yourself become a 30 year old virgin. Whenever I lurk wizchan or read a virgin's post I feel so much pity. But just HOW do you allow yourself to become a 30 year old virgin. You did. I reached adulthood without even kissing a girl, but I tried as hard as possible to get a gf, and I eventually did. >too screwed up to connect as a real person and too aware to connect through apathy and mind blindness That's not possible. Talking is when you think of things and you turn them into words which leave your mouth. Whenever a thought or memory surfaces, you share it with the other person. Your thoughts -> spoken word -> their thoughts. Sex, food, sleep, talk, these are the four biggest pleasures in life. You cannot survive without food or sleep, but sex or talk you can. There is obviously permanent and severe damage done to your psyche by a deprivation of sex, and likely of talk too. I'm sad about that, and hope that not many kind people must suffer that way.

>>37777 Nta but if you've spent years not talking and socializing with people your age it can lead to communication deficit. Your just not fluent in their social language. Like any language the only way to reach fluency is to get out there and use it. But if your socially or romantically stunted people tend to avoid you or even ostracize you because there are dozens of better people to talk to. This leads to a death spiral. I'm not good enough to get good. People realize their stuck and either end up writing themselves off or go down the path of porn addiction or become incels. I'm sure there's some way out of this for me but it's not like I know anyone who can help or give me advice. The info online is terrible and you can easily fall down the incel rabbit hole or bowing down before a greedy self-help guru or "influencer." I try but repeatedly fail and just become burnt out or numb for a few months or even years only to crave love later. I get the feeling a lot of dealing with women advice floating around these days is wrong but I don't know where else to go.

first things first you have to get out of your anime, romcom bullshit. you've grown up with MKULTRA telling you that the soft sensitive nerd wins the girl in the end. but of course reality showed you something else. ultimately playing those dating sims is useless because they're made by lonely men like you who have been fed the same anime, romcom MKULTRA bullshit. majority of women are not soft, lovable creatures we want them to be. they are not the arbiters of romance and love. they are sociopathic, cold, and calculating. romance is an inherently male domain. we write all the best poetry, create the best art, write the best music and stories. in my experience every single relationship i've had, the women got over me in a snap of their fingers. whereas i being a more introverted, sensitive type, would feel regret about how the relationship turned out. trying to remedy it far past the time when that was possible. feeling lost, missing them, attempting recommunication. these things were never reciprocated. in my experience and most mens experience, it was easier for me to break things up in the short term, but in the long term i remained attached to them. whereas it is harder for them in the short term, but easier in the long term. women are socipathic, adrenaline junkies. craving drama. craving confrontation. not because they hate you, but they are always testing you. testing your confidence and your ability to be a soldier capable of protecting them and your spawn. this is their biological nature, they cant even help it. when a woman argues with you, she doesnt want to have a logical debate. she wants you to tell her to shutup and smack her ass (hyperbolic, but not really). this signals to her lizard brain that you are high value. that you are a catch, who is not desperate, that you could find a new woman tomorrow. that you havent gotten lazy and soft after the seduction. you could see this as misogynistic and dismiss it, but most married men know this reality and the only way they've kept a healthy relationship dynamic is by being this dominant unbreaking spirit in their womans life. this doesnt mean you have to be a meathead alpha male. mental domination is just as powerful as being domineering with a muscular presence. as men have degraded into being less masculine, you see all kinds of c ucked relationship fetishes popping up. pegging, polyamory, etc. this is NOT a healthy dynamic. this WILL make you depressed and you will perform worse in all aspects of your life if you let yourself be put into these positions, not just relationship wise. pick up artistry is in general degenerate, men engaging in promiscuous sex just for a one night stand is meaningless. however there are sages in those circles that focused a lot on female psychology, these types are extremely valuable. https://heartiste.org/ the TL;DR to being good at relationships is. being dominant. being confident. focusing on your needs first, developing a mindset where you are the boss or you find someone else. women. want. to. submit. just go browse around womens "literature" circles to confirm it. majority of women with an interest in reading, are reading smut, and this smut focuses on BDSM. being dominated. P.S. >it just underlines how detached I've become from other homo sapiens stop jerking off.

>>37777 >But just HOW do you allow yourself to become a 30 year old virgin. You did. There were two components. The first is early childhood divorce (~3), father was replaced by another man who was threatening, older males gave me "not one of us" signals, other factors with the parents, exposure to both misandry and misogyny during development, and other conditioning. The culmination and a key moment in this was when a girl I like actually asked me out, and I rejected her. Another girl I didn't mind either, kept her at arm's length. And with a third girl as well. This is due to a core belief that connection is death and rebirth, complete annihilation. Everything is about leverage and control. This is programmed in by the family. I regretted it but split the mind and eventually just wiped my memory. I was better at double think back then. The second and concluding aspect, which seems tailored made my psychology, was loss of my health ~17. That was pretty much the end, death and rebirth. I created something that could continue through anything with almost nothing, and that comes at a cost. It brought my highly internal way of functioning and intimacy terror to an almost existential, ontological, cosmic extreme. I was in constant pain, and worse, and having other issues so it wasn't possible anyway. Maybe it would have been had I understood and believed? Nonetheless, that finished frying me. Once you've experienced prolonged isolation, physical and psychological torture, you become very meticulous and well adapted. The only thing my core self comprehends is the returnh to the primordial cold. So, that's it. At 30 it's like whatever. I've lost interest. You're supposed to become aware and then find out, integrate it with your sense of self, and move on. At 30 this process is just inane, you know, it can't be done. Not properly anyway. The idea is repulsive. This is because I have avoidant traits and to finally find out would truly bring an entire lifetime of trauma crashing down upon me.

>>37781 >women are socipathic, adrenaline junkies. craving drama. craving confrontation. not because they hate you, but they are always testing you. testing your confidence and your ability to be a soldier capable of protecting them and your spawn. this is their biological nature, they cant even help it. This has never been my experience with any woman. Everyone I've ever dated was calm, cool, and fun to be with. >as men have degraded into being less masculine, you see all kinds of c ucked relationship fetishes popping up. pegging, polyamory, etc. >women. want. to. submit. just go browse around womens "literature" circles to confirm it. majority of women with an interest in reading, are reading smut, and this smut focuses on BDSM. being dominated. erotica isn't real life. Most women are not pegging their partners or trying to have a poly relationship. Most women are not looking for some bdsm lifestyle dom. Go outside.

>>37783 Oh but they WANT to. All those women were just lying to you. I would know, I have watched several YouTube videos.

>>37781 women also like subtlety :) there's a lot of unspoken truth you mentioned, but they're unspoken for a lot of reasons. there's also a lot of what I'm going to assume is you misunderstanding and not you regurgitating "male advice": >they are sociopathic, cold, and calculating they are explosively emotional, not sociopathic they are not cold, they are passionate they do not calculate, they feel you're confusing intentional malicious intent with side effects of effective biology >when a woman argues with you, she doesnt want to have a logical debate. she wants you to tell her to shutup and smack her ass a healthy woman in a healthy relationship is more likely arguing because the man don't understand something from a feminine point of view, like this assumption i've read your post some more and realised im being trolled :( i respect how deep you went for this one

>>37785 I guess he can add that women are borderline unconscious as well.

>>37735 >Do women actually read Jane Austen? No one I know only people I know who have read it are nerdy guys into great books stuff. It's great and shows people working through relationships and how they can be handled poorly and well so good for anyone to read.

>>37786 Borderline? They're meat machines. Literally less intelligent than worms. It's downright creepy how they can make such an accurate simulacra of speech and reasoning, but just know in your heart that your woman is literally a living flashlight and you'll be hppy, healthy, and long-lived.

>>37785 i was not trolling. i was being genuine from my experiences, i'm sorry you felt that way about my opinion. i could've been better with my adjectives in describing women but the point i was trying to make is that women shouldn't be seen as these sorts of fairy princesses a lot of socially stunted men want them to be. and thus become angry at the current state of affairs with dating as a result because women aren't princesses anymore. they've never been princesses, they've always wanted to be ravaged. this is where the whole incel stuff sprouts out of. instead of being pragmatic, engaging in the competition of life. these men want the assigned wife sort of thing, they want it to be easy. frankly it's hard to blame them. navigating the social arena is not very rewarding for a cerebral minded person, nor interesting in this shallow and dull society. not to mention the current way men have been raised these past decades hasn't lent itself to charisma becoming a strongly developed trait. an interesting phenomenon about women is their ever prevalent rape fantasies (many studies available on this). this is a thing because being raped by a conquering tribe and warming up to the rapist, raising your new rape-baby was all you could really do to survive throughout thousands of years of human history. the fact is, women do not possess the strength to fight off an attacker, nor could they survive on their own if their previous mate was brutally murdered. they adapted to survive. this lends itself to hypergamy being so prevalent in the modern day. women in general are always willing to hop from one monkey branch to the other if it will lead to better results. to put it bluntly, loyalty and honor are foreign concepts to them, by necessity. if you are not interested in this sort of thing, enduring and beating soykaf tests from women, being challenging, entertaining, exciting, and aggressive. then i can't really blame you, it's certainly challenging in this age. infact the powers that be are actively discouraging these characteristics, masculine men are harder to rule over. simple as that. but, life is a struggle and you've got to realize these things are what make men, men. these are the gifts bestowed upon us. if you don't want to participate then take HRT or something and make a lot of money before the twink death happens.

>>37789 >this is a thing because being raped by a conquering tribe and warming up to the rapist, raising your new rape-baby was all you could really do to survive throughout thousands of years of human history. Maybe if you're from a weak tribe that gets conquered. I'm a male and I have rape fantasies, but I wouldn't want to actually be raped. In practice I just like it when my woman is aggressive. >hypergamy It's BS. Basically you're looking at slutty 18 year olds and deciding that's the norm. >masculine men are harder to rule over. simple as that. I wonder where people get this idea... Masculine men are extremely easy to manipulate. Make ranks, tell them it's manly to go kill the enemy, restrict access to mates based on conformity... All classic tools of the trade.

>>37790 >Masculine men are extremely easy to manipulate It's unreal how people don't see this, half of the stuff defined as masculine is just guys pathetically doing whatever someone says they are supposed to because they are afraid of being unmasculine.

>>37783 It is true that women will test you. Not all the time, but enough for it to be irritating, like once a month. You have to deal with their confrontation, because if you don't they'll lose respect for you. They don't do it intentionally, it's just the way women are, they're not "cold and calculating sociopaths", they just are what they are, they're so diluted they don't even know what they're doing. Another thing. A girl will not leave you if you don't care. A girl will only leave you when you're weak and broken. If a girl ever threatens to leave you in some argument don't even pay it any mind, you can even encourage them to do so. Most men aren't willing to put an entire relationship on the line like that though. What women really want is a guy who has ambitions and goals in life. Someone who has a direction they wish to head and something to create. They don't really want anything for theirself, they think they do but they don't, when they go off trying to get what they want for theirself by theirself they're miserable. What they want is a man to take charge and decide what they want for them. So long as the man in the relationship is happy the woman will also be happy, it trickles down from the male.

It's better for men to date younger girls. This is gonna sound perverse but a relationship is like parenting. A younger girl is looking for a surrogate father with more life experience who can mentor her. You have to partly raise her, rear her up and mold her to your liking. Just make sure your not going after girls that are underage. If you struggle with your peer group or older hunt for women who are younger. I used to have issues being estranged from my age group and an asocial loner, but its easier with younger girls because I'm roughly the same mental age as them.

>>37789 Rape fantasies in women are basically girls fantasizing about loss of control. Free will can be a burden and its hard making decisions. So its comforting for them to imagine a powerful guy taking control of their body so they don't have to worry or be the one in charge. Just transfer the power over to someone else and roll with it.Women like being ravaged because their the receiver in sex and duh they experience lust. Men who like taking it up the ass are the same.

Growing up I saw women as basically perfect, apex predators. Cold, ruthless, utterly empty, and with a machine-like intelligence. They hate men for desiring them, they hate themselves for wanting to be wanted, they hate and love themselves for being women, they hate each other. They maneuver and angle, anything you reveal will be logged and used to exploit, punish, or otherwise manipulate you later. She will ensure compliance by scheming and working to keep herselves slightly elevated and ensnaring you into double binds whenever possible. I thought to myself I could never outcompete that, could not live with it, could not tame it. Maybe temporarily, but it's not my default state, I would get tired. Fact is I see women as competition, tend to position them as family members, however I also know that you're not supposed to drastically outcompete them. All of these things culminate to visibility is vulnerability, connection is cruelty, closeness is mutual harm, change is death. I thought the idea of being bound, the idea of being the man, was impossible. So in a Lilith allegory I had to become "the world", and I elevated that Anima / unconscious aspect to equal standing. An ironic decision considering the belief that the external feminine clouldn't be tamed, I brought forth and elevated an inner feminine so I wouldn't need anything external and could conquer the mind itself. Gradually engulfment and divison occurred, rather than inner unity. Very hard to shake. I realize it was all about early childhood and the parents and so on. I also suspect I was projecting my own Anima onto women, as it's built for mind blind self centered engulfment and conquest, just like its creator, my mother.

>>37792 >It is true that women will test you. Not all the time, but enough for it to be irritating, like once a month. I haven't been "tested" by a woman since I was a teenager. >If a girl ever threatens to leave you in some argument don't even pay it any mind, you can even encourage them to do so. Most men aren't willing to put an entire relationship on the line like that though. If you meet a woman who tries to manipulate you like this, break up with her. Don't try to out mind game her. She's not mature enough for a relationship if she does this and you're not mature enough for one if you can't walk away without engaging in some pseudopsycholigical counter manipulation. >So long as the man in the relationship is happy the woman will also be happy, it trickles down from the male. Completely false. Ever think about how many men are blindsided when their unhappy wife divorces them? >They don't really want anything for theirself, they think they do but they don't, when they go off trying to get what they want for theirself by theirself they're miserable. Do you know any accomplished women? Women, like all people, enjoy meeting goals and making accomplishments.

>>37777 >But she loves me enough to tell me not to waste my time, which makes her more capable of love than 90% of womxn. I am not sure that's how it works anon...

>>37797 They don't always need to be directly threatening to leave you, but they will begin to make demands that will inevitably cause the relationship to die like wanting to get married, and if you let it stress you out you'll crumble and they will leave you. Not caring will starve them. Businesswomen and career women with no real friends and no partner are not happy. >Completely false. Ever think about how many men are blindsided when their unhappy wife divorces them? Oversimplification of an issue. There is always a reason.

>>37816 >but they will begin to make demands that will inevitably cause the relationship to die like wanting to get married, and if you let it stress you out you'll crumble and they will leave you. Haven't seen this yet, and I've been living with my gf for about 6 months now. If anything I'm the one who wants to get married but I'm fine with a common law marriage lol. Maybe she's "one of the good ones". >There is always a reason. Yes, but does the husband always know the reason?

>>37816 >Businesswomen and career women with no real friends and no partner are not happy. "No real friends" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. I know single women with fulfilling lives. I know married women with happy husbands who hate their lives. Your view that "happiness trickles down from the man" is simply inconsistent with reality. Whether you're a man or a woman, long-term fulfillment does not come from a partner. Expecting that of your partner and expecting to be that for your partner is unrealistic and immature. >they will begin to make demands that will inevitably cause the relationship to die like wanting to get married, and if you let it stress you out you'll crumble and they will leave you In your earlier post, you say women will give soykaf tests to you, but your example now is that women sometimes want to get married? Is wanting kids another "test" to you? People are allowed to have life goals like getting married and those with that goal should leave you if you're against it. Likewise you should leave them. >Not caring will starve them. Why do you want to starve them? You want to hurt your partner so you can win the relationship? You think manipulating them like this will make the relationship stronger? >Oversimplification of an issue. There is always a reason. The issue of divorce isn't the topic. The issue is your claim that women will be happy if the man is happy (a claim that itself is simplistic). Happy men getting divorced by unhappy women is a counterexample to that. "But there are other factors at play' - yes, that's the point. There are other factors than the man's happiness, thus your statement is false.

>>37820 >I know single women with fulfilling lives Superficially. Unless she's outright schizoid or autistic, over time you begin to see artifacts and aberrations appear from the voids in a woman's life. Very few people are built to be alone. You have to be conditioned and shaped for it from infancy. Not sure if it can be acquired later by another means.

>>37823 It seems like your arguments are superficially fulfilling you. The aberrations in the void of all the things you don't address are far louder than your baseless insistence on the domination of women being good.

>>37826 I should've mentioned I wasn't the same poster.

You will not find anything here

>>34192 >2. Form a lot of genuine friendships with women. This is probably the worst advice ever to be honest. If a woman likes you from the start, you don't need to bother with friendship, and if she doesn't like you from the start, why bother with friendship? It's a lose lose either way. Every time I see people say this, it feels like it is some kind of weird feminist chatbot just saying stuff.

>>37840 The only way to salvage the concept is to use them to build up reputation and networking. ie, meet other women through their social circles.

>>37826 It is what it is. Men are naturally going dominate women, they are the dominant sex, this is true across the majority of species on this planet. Men are better overall. They're more intelligent, they're stronger, they're more interesting. We have evolved with men leading any form of relationship throughout history, men and women are programmed to fall into their roles. You are bringing up abnormal outliers of women not identifying with the majority, but that doesn't refute a thing I've said. In what manner are these supposed females you know happy exactly? Because they told you? Look at the way they lead their lives, I doubt they're as happy as you think. If we're gonna just bring up our own perspective then I can just say that I don't know of a single happy "independent" female, they are all discontent with life and aimless, they don't know what the hell to do, literally I can see some of them posting mellow dramatic stuff on social media about how they're lost. And now I am beginning to see females desiring a man to take charge over their life and lead them, because that's what women in general desire, they desire someone who is strong to lead them to a good life. Not only that but other people who know females that I don't know are seeing the same thing. Long term fulfillment comes from what? Working your entire life, working a career for a soulless company and getting promotions in service of what? Getting more money? To what end ultimately, to nothing, to growing old and winding up alone until you die, living off of retirement, not all females want that, a very small minority of them might.

>>37840 >If a woman likes you from the start, you don't need to bother with friendship If you meet a woman who is into you at the start, go for it. That's what "Eventually, you'll meet a woman who romantically clicks with you," was intended to convey, but perhaps I should have been more specific. Starting from a platonic place just makes meeting more women easier and usually makes women more receptive to you. >if she doesn't like you from the start, why bother with friendship? OP said he feels out of the loop and implied he has minimal social experience with women. He needs to get platonic experience with women before romancing anyone. Walk before you run. Beyond OP's specific case: You're going to make friends during your life, so why not make some of them women? The guy with zero women as friends has no chance of female friends catching feelings for him. The guy who's friends with several women has much better chances. Even if none of them ever catch feelings that he reciprocates, there's no damage. He just has more friends. Having women as friends is also a good filter for keeping crazy women away. Keeps all the immature, jealousy-filled, "stop talking to other women!" lunatics away from you. Women also just make good friends.

>dating advice >lainchan oh wohohoho wonononono

>>37729 what an insufferable cunt. Why does she feel she can make you jump through hoops just to get a chance to access her vagina?

>>37892 all females do this, don't play their game. and fuarrrk dating apps in general, they are not for dating they're for sex, just bruteforce it, you just tell them you wanna fuarrrk and if they say no move on, keep trying and you'll get a girl eventually, other people try harder to be suave and charm a girl before fuarrrking them on dating apps, don't even waste time like that just cut through the crap and get to the point

The real question is, how do you filter out the vaccinated women?

>>37898 There are a number of ways. >Ask her thoughts on circumcision If she thinks it's ok, she is probably vaccinated. >Ask her directly about COVID If she indicates she thinks it's real at all, there is a high chance that she's vaccinated and retarded. >Ask her thoughts on a "plant based diet" If she thinks a plant based diet is good, it is a guarantee that she is vaccinated

you dont get any women to begin with

>>37905 True. I don't even try. Back in the day I thought I could choose and force it, or go into the right mode. These days I doubt I could.

>>37898 >>37901 Or, just fuarrrking ask her if she took the shots?

>>37892 What hoops? All lainon said before asking her to meet IRL was "heyy." She literally just wants to have a conversation before deciding if it's a good idea to meet some random guy from a dating app.

>>37963 dating apps a hell of a lot safer than unplanned courtship https://zzzchan.xyz/b/thread/169202.html

>>37892 >why does this person want to ensure potential mates are high quality? She should fuarrrk me because I deserve it!

>>37995 Get a grip you crazy tranny. It's a dating app. They're used almost exclusively for sex and boosting self esteem. She is just a narcy who needs her ego boosted by seeing how much she can make the other monkeys on the app dance.

Women are masochists who need to feel pain. They need to feel like they've been tortured and raped to feel pleasure. Obviously, nobody wants to actually be abused and violated irl. This is what confuses men. They sense women's masochistic lust but misinterpret it and can't understand how women seem to have this duality to them. Women want to be manhandled, but they also don't want to be manhandled. This is key to understanding women and dating. There are times when a woman wants you take control and overpower her, and there are times she hates that kind of thing. You have to be caring and kinky and guys mess that up all the time.

>>37895 >just bruteforce it, you just tell them you wanna fuarrrk and if they say no move on, keep trying and you'll get a girl eventually If you're really attractive, you might end up with a one night stand with some tramp that way. Most women fuarrrking hate this, and most of them aren't any less lonely or horny than you. 95% of people on dating apps of either gender are desperate for love and/or sex but very few people are willing to fuarrrk a complete stranger, no matter how attractive they are. The people who will, you probably don't really want anyway. >>37998 >used almost exclusively for sex and boosting self esteem and if she wants to have sex she has to set standards low enough that anyone can get it? Heck, her message was clearly just a playful invitation for flirting. I hope lain actually responded in a reasonable amount of time. >>37999 >There are times when a woman wants you take control and overpower her, and there are times she hates that kind of thing. Usually, the former is when you've already gotten her all hot & bothered with some foreplay. Some women also like being aggressive, but even then they usually want you to be aggressive back.

>>38002 i never said you were gonna be getting a lot of girls, i'm just saying that _eventually_ you will get someone, you just have to cast a wide net and consistently put out messages, make your intentions clear in the first message and waste no time

>>38002 As someone who prefers fuarrrking strangers to "making love" I can confirm we exist. I enjoy degrading sex, and unfortunately I'm just not comfortable doing that to someone I love and respect. Feminists like to say this is due to porn, but the fact it the human race raped so much there was an evolutionary selection for the people that enjoyed it. There is also wayyyy less pressure because if the sex goes poorly for any reason you can just move on. You don't have to deal with your gf quietly resenting your inability to make her orgasm or vice-versa. You are extremely lucky (but actually lying) if you've never had bad sex with a significant other. And yes, many women are the same way. They are more comfortable being unabashedly slutty with guys they don't really know well. Did you know that people in polycules/harems don't typically have orgies? People prefer to do that stuff at anonymous sex clubs. Women are well-known for withholding sex from guys they like and having a fling with tall losers. There is just so much less at stake for all parties. Don't knock it til you try it. You don't even have to be that tall. I first discovered I have much better sex with strangers by using prostitutes, though I eventually gained enough rizz to realize this was consistent in one night stands with nonprofessionals. I suspect more people are like this people think because it's a very uncomfortable truth about society. If I had to put a number on it, 40% of people are like this.

>>38012 The reality that many people are only comfortable having sex with complete strangers is proof our society is irredeemably sick. I hope humanity ends soon.

>>38012 >As someone who prefers fuarrrking strangers to "making love" I can confirm we exist. Cool, that was never in any doubt. >You are extremely lucky (but actually lying) if you've never had bad sex with a significant other. I've had bad sex with many people.

>>38012 >though I eventually gained enough rizz to realize this was consistent in one night stands with nonprofessionals. So I assume you don't just walk up to people and ask "wanna fuarrrk?" and then ignore them if they don't immediately say yes?

Dating apps suck. They are ruining peoples minds just like other social media and they don't respect anyone's privacy. It's like a chastity cage but your dominatrix is a tech company and when your fuarrrking some random stranger your making out with the man. Dating apps are turning humans into lust driven animals who just want to get laid and they discriminate against people for dumb fuarrrking reasons and then those people become incels. Look at all this women in pic. All of them don't care the profile is a child molester. They saw the pick and just want to be ravaged. Dating apps are worse than porn.

>>38016 Do they make people like that or do they just make it easy to test and document that people are like that, while the systems in place to make people a little less like that are simultaneously being erroded and sabotaged.

>>38015 Kinda. I just aim for less attractive women on dating apps then ghost them. >>38014 You sound reasonable, but I've run into a lot of religious people online lately who seriously think sex is better in committed relationships. >>38016 Great meme.However, dating apps are part of it but I don't think that's the main issue. The problem is that women now openly admit their physical preferences which most men don't meet. In the past average men would make way more money than average women, so women were more likely to settle for average looking guys with average incomes. These days you either have to be a gigachad (in which case income doesn't really matter because women have jobs and welfare) or you have to be a millionaire. Compounding matters is the fact that all the cushy factory jobs have disappeared. I think women always had these physical preferences in men, but it was socially unacceptable for them to admit it. Now with social media the physical appearance of their bf reflects on them way more than it used to. Another aspect is how homosexual men started openly lusting after the physical features of men, which made it more okay for women to start doing the same thing.

>>38018 > but I've run into a lot of religious people online lately who seriously think sex is better in committed relationships. the only people who think that are people who have never had sex and are brainwashed by hollywood romance movies.

>>38018 >I think women always had these physical preferences in men, but it was socially unacceptable for them to admit it. The culture industry, Madison avenue, and porn all sell physical preferences. I don't doubt for a minute that most people's sexual preferences are shaped corpo and government brainwashing, including women. Industrial production creates false needs and manufactured wants. Did women always want these things or were they trained to like them? I'm guessing it's a mix of both. Most classical civilizations (Greek, Islamic, Chinese, Japanese etc.) favored bisexuality as the social norm but today everyone is either straight or gay. Further proof our desires are molded by the powerful. Social media creates impossible standards and insane levels of competition. Guys have to compete with millions of other potential dates and women end up setting impossibly high standards to filter people out. Western society is also a post-love society. Romance is reduced to sex and everything is a game to get into someone's pants and claim them as a conquest. It's basically prostitution without the fee. Dating apps encourage this kind of ultra competitive sex driven thinking by design. The breakdown in traditional gender roles mean women are more openly sexually aggressive than before and birth control has made marriage a borderline irrelevant hand me down from the past. Serial monogamy, pump and dump, is encouraged by society. Journalists, progressives, sex educators, see it as a positive thing and encourage casual sex and fleeting relationships. The sexual revolution was a disaster. The whole idea was to create a free market of sex where everyone had the libertarian right to choose. Instead of building a better system to replace the old one, society created an even worse, more depressing, more degrading system that is modern dating. We now live in an era where many people go sexless throughout their lives or don't have sex until their in their 30s and where most women rarely orgasm during heterosexual sex. This is unprecedented in human history.

>>38020 Because I'm American I think more freedom is more better even if it ultimately leads to worse outcomes. Also I'm not entirely convinced dating being simple and easy in the past isn't just rose tinted nostalgia goggles. People are choosing to use dating apps because they are better than the alternative. There were still chads and incels and spinsters and sluts. People got divorced less because they'd become outcasts, not because they loved each other more. Life wasn't like an Archie comic for most people. Over the past few decades a gender war has developed. The first blow was obviously the invention of birth control pills and legalization of abortion. This was a huge win for women because now they could finally fuarrrk the badboys without risking too much. Once their good years got used up finally settling down with a beta provider. Men knew we're the gatekeepers of relationships, so our boy Reagan gave us the no-fault divorce. Now women had the threat of losing their marriage for not putting out. In response women started getting real jobs and their own bank accounts. This severely nerfed the threat of divorce. Next, while porn had always existed, it didn't become easy to come by till the 1990s with Internet porn. Then Men developed PUA. This worked great for men but holy soykaf did women hate this. So when dating apps went mainstream, women had no problems treating us like how PUA treated them. This back and forth ultimately resulted in the gender war we're live in today

>>38020 >We now live in an era where many people go sexless throughout their lives or don't have sex until their in their 30s and where most women rarely orgasm during heterosexual sex. This is unprecedented in human history. Why would women have orgasms more often from heterosexual sex in the past?

>>38022 >American >freedom The American people are a truly domesticated people, freedom is not a concept they can understand, they have never experienced it or even been close to it.

>>38024 Bro it's basically anarchy in our megacities and if that's not your style you can still fuarrrk off to the middle of nowhere and do whatever you want on your own property. I've traveled all over the world. Some countries like Japan and Norway are nicer places to live, but they are obviously less free. https://petapixel.com/2023/07/21/japan-tests-minority-report-style-cameras-to-stop-crime-before-it-happens/ https://nypost.com/2022/12/15/tonje-gjevjon-faces-up-to-3-years-in-prison-for-saying-men-cannot-be-lesbians/ Meanwhile, we're leading the world in recreational drug legalization: https://www.nbcnews.com/data-graphics/magic-mushrooms-psilocybin-map-colorado-us-states-rcna55980 Don't worry, I don't expect you to provide evidence for your claims like me. I'm sure you're just gonna rant about communism.

>>38022 >I'm not entirely convinced dating being simple and easy in the past isn't just rose tinted nostalgia goggles. I'm talking about the time before modern dating. 19th century Victorian courtship and arranged marriage. I'm not saying it's something we should go back to either or it didn't have its problems, but today's system is fuarrrking broke and creating loneliness and unhappiness on a massive scale. The old system created a moderate number of unhappy marriages but there wasn't chronic sexlessness and fulfillment. >People are choosing to use dating apps because they are better than the alternative. They're choosing dating apps because society now mandates strict rules for where people can flirt and get romantic/sexual. Before the internet, people would often date their co workers, romance them at work or at college. Today it's not socially acceptable anymore. People are being forced into using dating apps because their one of the few places your allowed to chase girls these days. Everywhere else is "unacceptable." It's all by design to let big tech grip you by the crotch. >>38023 Today, men and women learn about sex from sex ed and porn. Sex ed is like kicking dead whales down the beach and porn teaches people bad habits. In medieval Christian Europe, children weren't shielded from sex, they knew what a vagina was used for and what a whore was. It wasn't something hidden from them until they hit puberty. In medieval schools, boys studied Ovid's Ars Armatoira, a Roman seduction manual. In rural peasant areas sexual knowledge was passed down from older people who'd mentor their juniors. In Mughal India, Muslim nobles would send their teen children to courtesans to be trained in how flirt, seduce and have sex. Prostitution was widely tolerated as a necessary evil. So there was an art of erotica, of sex and love, that was refined and passed down and aimed at only two things: maximizing pleasure/orgasms and dealing with/avoiding pregnancy. It had its problems, both Ovid and the Kama Sutra encourage romantic rape, but generally people had better sex because society valued mastery of sexual technique and passed it down. Today we have a soulless sex ed full of annoying scientific terminology and political correct newspeak so people turn to porn. Guys see women huge titties being jackhammered by huge guys and go ahead and bruise their partners vaginas and many women don't orgasm during intercourse. Both put pornstar looks (ugly goblin women with huge tits and muscular guys) on a pedestal and try to mimic the garbage they see online. People go into sexual relationships completely confused, not sure what's morally right or wrong or even how to use their bodies. Everyone is anxious, filled with self-doubt and frustrated.

>>38027 >Bro it's basically anarchy in our megacities Underrated consideration. Further, gangs are really just young, ill advised governments; Anarchy is the mother of government. Where the official structure fails, new structure grows. That is to say specifically, harshly, the official structure failed. It seems to be on purpose. These minor overlaps of social power have progressed towards insurgency in many areas, some even being considered 'no-go's to the police, what is effectively a territorial dispute. Where both the income and manpower exceed that of the police, a domestic paramilitary successfully opposed to the local government has been established, but these "small business owners" have become important to the US economy, with some speculating that the astonishing amount of nondescript cashflow(i.e. not subject to tax/recordskeeping) stabilized the markets during the 2008 recession.

>>38029 Let me start by saying I really like your takes. You've clearly thought about this way more than most. I'm very curious as to your opinion on MGTOW. Do you think it's possible to live a fulfilling life without a romantic partner or family? >arranged marriages I def agree it was a better system overall. But yeah, barring a complete civilizational collapse, that genie isn't going back in the bottle. Like it or not what's going to happen next is AI waifus, sexbots, and artificial wombs. And it will honestly be less dystopian than modern dating. >dating apps You're not looking at it from the perspective of women and chads, which together make up the majority of the population. Chads like them because they're less hassle and women like how easy it is to filter out non-chads. Society is not forcing THEM to use dating apps, because the truth is it's still completely socially acceptable for those two groups to ask out whoever they want wherever they want. I wasn't aware that people weren't allowed to ask out their classmates these days so I'll take your word for it. That is dumb. However I actually am a fan of getting dating out of the workplace. When you're at work just do your damn job.

>>38003 You say that as if time and willpower are not finite resources. Every failed attempt does a little emotional damage to you, and that soykaf adds up until eventually you give up. This happens all the time and is normal human behavior. So just "playing the numbers game" does not in any way guarantee success like you are suggesting. That advice used to work in the early 2000s when PUA was still viable.

>>38027 Our megacities are literal hell and the opposite of freedom, they are created in auch a way that it is IMPOSSIBLE to be awlf sustained and that you are necessarily dependent on a system created by someone ruling you. Do you really think "freedom" is living in the hood on packaged food and getting shot at daily? Because that's the only place where that "anarchy" you speak of exists, cause if you try to be an "anarchist" in the nice gentrified areas, you're fuarrrked.

I suppose my fixation remains how to function around the obvious psychosocial and cognitive induced by late in life virginity with no broader mission to distract and trick oneself. As well as why this core anti-intimacy feature comes into being and remains so stable. I associate connection of any kind with complete annihilation, death and rebirth, enslavement. To consummate with the world is to be eaten by it, bound, engulfed completely. Too much physical torture I think. Damaging the body prevented the mind from using the body to what it was supposed to, and that's why the inner system collapsed. So I'm kind of a halfway state. I gained the ability to feel alone, regret, etc, but 30 is just too late to do anything else. I would have to kill myself and start over as a different person, malformed to the core. The damage to the body and probably brain just forms the part of the feedback loop that reinforces this endlessly. Without the body I can't escape.

>>38034 > psychosocial and cognitive damage* induced.

>>38032 it's not pickup artistry it's literally just asking a girl if she's down to fuarrrk or not and if she says no or says something goofy like "you'll have to ask better than that" so as to extract some validation from you, you move on, people who practiced pickup artistry in the past still had to deal with rejection, it's something that you will develop an immunity to over the course of time once rejection becomes a part of daily life, you can learn how to overcome it

>>38036 >"you'll have to ask better than that" so as to extract some validation from you, She's just saying "You need to prove you're not mentally incompetent before we can bang". Because, replying to that flirtatious line is so incredibly easy that you'd have to be literally retarded to think of it as any kind of roadblock.

>>38037 >She's just saying "You need to prove you're not mentally incompetent before we can bang" This is another issue, wrong use of language. It's not about mental competence, it's about the ability to use the masculine project principle to fight off society and the parents. Society programs men with doublethink and all kinds of nonsense that isn't true and doesn't work, so what she's actually testing is whether you can ignore societal programming and simply take her. That's it. Whether you will see and take what you want, but with the nuance and ritual required to make her also feel safe. >t. fell for it and couldn't resolve doublethink induced by media, pornography, parents, etc.

>>38038 This highlights the male side of the issue but the sexual deprogramming is multifaceted: A healthy male will take what's presented to him, but females don't know how to present themselves. It's lost in the "feminine rhetoric" of pretending they don't want sex, a culturally driven phenomenon. Female presentation is the first step to sexual realization. She makes herself available to the male. This is true in every species of mammal. The concept of "the male approach" or "male sexual persistence" is the most rudimentary false pretense demonstrated in this 'sexual deprogramming': Gender roles are swapped from the most preliminary desires on the matter. That's why relationships have become a non-starter, as the basis of connection has already been entirely eroded.

>>38037 please teach us what to say then

>>34192 >Just voluntarily enter the friendzone bro! Only works if you're already attractive enough to not need to do that. Also there just aren't many women who are interesting people worth being friends with in the first place.

>>37778 This is why young virgin wife is a human right.

>>38043 Something like "dang, let me try again: you're looking fine darlin', how about you and me go out for a night on the town?" Self-deprecating joke, followed by a compliment that has an ironic component and thus she can laugh it off, followed by asking again with a little more gravitas. She'll probably laugh and then try to make more conversation before you make real plans.

>>38149 Cringe. Instead of debasing yourself with modern dating, why not cut out the middleman and just get a hooker?

>>37840 >>38044 Having worked in a workplace with mostly women for a few months now, its become absolutely weird to me to have the mindset that you can't be friends with any of them because "Oh if maybe she liked me more something could have happened". Like >>34192 said its getting used to being in regular situations around women. You're mentally reinforcing the idea that those interactions are really not a big deal (positive or negative) because in the grand scope of your life, they really aren't .

>>34187 The problem with asking internet strangers for advice on dating is that it's an extremely multifaceted problem. There's many things you might need to work on, but we can only guess what these things are. Therefore, there is no advice that is general enough to be useful to many people but also specific enough to be put into text. You have to practice interacting with people in real life, pay close attention to your own experiences, and learn from them. If this sounds overwhelming, you don't have to start by flirting with women right away. Start where you're still somewhat comfortable, even if that is just casual talk with male acquaintances, and explore social interactions from there. >>37999 >This is what confuses men. They sense women's masochistic lust but misinterpret it and can't understand how women seem to have this duality to them. Women want to be manhandled, but they also don't want to be manhandled. True. Basically, they want you to play a role sometimes, like in a game. Because they find it fun. It's not that complicated if you look at it that way. But some men misunderstand this and think they need to change their entire personality to fit into that role, then wonder why many women find it offputting. Others never play that role because they also think the alternative is to become Andrew Tate or whatever.

Just talk to them like you would anyone else. The difference is in coming off as a sexual being. This is where confidence and charisma comes into play. But more importantly, keep it playful and fun. I know thats easier said than done sometimes. Shit, I've had a girl tell me she thought I was asexual at first...but then I did proceed to fuarrrk her brains out shortly. Sometimes I think I come off as too standoffish, but I think thats more a consequence of being an introvert and intensely private. I was married for telve years, had a child and dogs, a starter home to a sorry shell of a man with nothing to show for it...don't ever get married or serious with a woman.

>>38154 Can't speak for that other lain but the reason I don't like being friends with women is 99% of them are not interesting to talk to. It's not that I think it's a big deal talking to them, quite the contrary. As for the remaining 1% history has proven I'll inevitably develop an unrequited crush on women I have an intellectual connection with. When you're talking with women at work, don't you just keep any conversation minimal or work-related? I never ever talk about my hobbies, beliefs, or even crack jokes with women at work. Er, well, I did at first but I learned the hard way why talking to women the same way I do men is a bad idea.

Here is some dating advice: If you let your daughter reach 12 without getting married, or your son reach 15 without getting married, you have failed as a parent. >>37782 That is like kicking dead whales down the beach, anon, I'm sorry.

>>37740 underrated post too short too short

>>38031 >Do you think it's possible to live a fulfilling life without a romantic partner or family? Buddhist monks who stay celibate and mountain hermits live fulfilling lives (by their own standards) so yes its possible. But rejecting romance and family out of spite for normal users is self destructive. >You're not looking at it from the perspective of women and chads, which together make up the majority of the population. If you look at irl social situations and see chads and stacys, you've let crappy post-2010 infect your mind and twist your interpretation of things. Of course not everyone is forced to use dating apps and some especially promiscuous people like to use them. Is it more socially acceptable for some people to ask other people out whenever they want? Yes but there's a bunch of other factors at play too, like wealth, race, sex, age, influence, context etc. its not as simple as chad this and chad that. Generally, its become more and more unacceptable to date, approach, and flirt outside a bar and a dating app. Society encourages promiscuity but it's very Victorian, moralistic and judgemental. Your supposed to be promiscuous but only in given situations and places, if you suck at talking to people in a bar or using a dating app then your chances are your going to fail at society's expectations. This is one of the major causes of unhappiness, loneliness, and sexual frustration in our society.

>>38169 That's pretty harsh to think you failed as a parent if your son isn't a chad by the time he's in high school.

Can anyone explain to me what's going on here? I'm confused.

>>38235 japanese lady likes white guy, but doesn't speak good english. Cuteness ensues.

>>38235 Ughhhhh humans. Always fuarrrkin.... doing things....

>>38235 She was saying he looks like someone who works at a host club, which is a place where women pay chads to be nice to them.

>>38242 That got me thinking. Prostitution is accepted in Jap culture the same way no one ever think too deeply about sidewalks or toilets. While a host in this context isn't a prostitute, it's fun to think how far you could take this. "You look like a prostitute" is probably a fun compliment to give women.

>>38244 No, Japanese women still don't like to be called prostitutes. The equivalent compliment would be "You look like a hostess." Hostess clubs are places where incels pay women to be nice to them NOT to fuarrrk them. They don't strip. You're not even allowed to touch them. You're just supposed to flirt and they're supposed to pretend to be interested. I know, it's hard to believe. But it's been a viable business model for the past 50 years. The closest analogue we have is probably female streamers. I learned all of this by playing Yakuza: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_and_hostess_clubs I think it's only a matter of time until these start popping up in America. I got addicted to a female game streamer before; a corpo Vtuber so it's not like there was ever a chance of seeing something lewd. I was purely in it for the "conversation". Don't worry, I've since kicked the habit and I never sent money. However, I would waste hours typing in chat trying to get her to notice me. And the few times she laughed at my jokes or acted interested in what I had to say felt better than 99% of the orgasms I've ever had. While I never paid, many many other men paid money just to increase their chances of her responding to them. Hostess clubs seem like the next logical step. If you give money to a an OnlyFans girl, you're a simp AND a kück. If you give money to a hostess, at least you're just a simp. A lot of people assume if only prostitution were legal the incel crisis would be solved. But there are plenty of places where prostitution is legal: Germany, Australia, Japan, etc yet they still have an incel crisis and collapsing birth rates just like every other civilized country. The truth is orgasms aren't really the reason most people have sex. Most people are more than capable of giving themselves great orgasms, often to the point that it becomes a problem. The main reason people really have sex is the social validation. When you get laid for free by an attractive person, that is proof that you matter. That you've made it. That your genes are worth reproducing. When a woman pays attention to you and flirts with you, when she indicates interest, you've already won. Have you ever matched with woman, she sent the first message, you confirmed she's not a bot, then ghosted her? It feels amazing. I completely understand why so many women do this to men. Japan has always been a few decades ahead of the West. I see no reason why that pattern would stop now.

>>38245 It's pretty depressing that you actually have to pay people to socialize with you or socially awkward people are becoming so ostracized the only comfort is some vtuber. Incelism is caused by life in an industrial society. Your just a cog in the machine now and in the olden days if you were a little awkward or strange it didn't matter but now everyone is so isolated if you seem like you don't fit in they immediately ostracize you.

>>38246 I sincerely appreciate the empathy bro. I don't think it's society's fault or even my behavior that is problem. I'm 5'3" i.e. more than 2 standard deviations below average, so I'm pretty sure I'd be fuarrrked in any era. Women literally evolved to prefer large men. At least I have the option to use Vtubers, fleshlights, and AC in modern society. I'd probably just die young in any other era: https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success

>>38247 >Women literally evolved to prefer large men Slow down with that one lain, this made sense when we were beating each other to death with rocks. Industrial warfare has lead to both a different soldier and different sexual selection. The modern soldier is fast and efficient, as small as possible, with fine motor skills and innate ballistic trajectory calculation. Big boys didn't come back from World War 1, the few who did had children who didn't come back from World War 2. You're probably a tiny fuarrrker because your grandpa had twice as many confirmed kills as he had inches, and when those tiny grandpas have daughters, they look for tiny men. I'm 5'10 I don't really have a horse in this race either way, but I'm lithe and fast as hell. I trained adjacent to Special Warfare candidates and they all had a similar demeanor, "I'm trying to lose muscle so I can be faster." Mind you, these aren't badasses(yet), and I was never training for a combat role, but they understood the dynamics of "I don't want to get shot" well enough. Even before modern warfare, tiny Irish fuarrrkers were known as the most badass, feared swordsmen in Europe, so god damn proficient at killing everyone it was a status symbol to have an Irish Gallowglas mercenary as your guard. 400 years on and tiny Irish fuarrrkers have won every single war in Europe for the same people that make it impossible for the Irish to win a war in Ireland.

I went outside today and saw a bunch of couples just hanging out and then I realized it would really suck to be in a relationship and it'd probably be as boring and as failed as anything else involving other people. I never had any friends as a kid, none in high school and I'm nearing 30 and still have none. Maybe this has effected my brain? Like the neural wiring for human connection never got connected or hasn't been update in years. Is there any fix for that or am I doomed? Isn't 20 the cut off point for brain development and neuroplasticity? I'm so fuarrrked. When I'm alone I crave affection but when I'm around actual people irl I just want to be left alone. What's wrong with me?

>>38248 Again, I appreciate that you're trying to make me feel better and your heart is def in the right place. I think you're mistaken though. Biologically ingrained preferences evolved long before we had firearms or even language. Just because we have new technology now that won't change without tens of thousands of years or an unprecedented population bottleneck. It's in much the same way that it's never been attractive for a woman to have open sores all over face or no teeth, and it never will be unless there is some sort of extreme selection pressure for those traits. I realize that it's more pragmatic to be short in many ways, not just modern combat. We get cancer less, we get injured less, we require less food, and generally live longer more comfortable lives. Plus I've had to develop mental resilience, a thick skin, and a level of competence that I don't see in very tall guys all that often. But those are all traits *men* respect, not that women are attracted to. Consequently, I've never had a lack of platonic friendships. Never had a lack of gay guys hitting on me either for that matter precisely because I'm a charismatic fit well-dressed manlet. If only I was gay... I think for a time in the recent past it was possible for manlets and other types of incels to get married because women weren't allowed to have their own bank accounts. So they had to put up with men they weren't really attracted to; the primal sexual attraction was never really there. "Lie back and think of England" or the meme that women don't like sex is derived from this behavior. Now that women have equal rights they have no reason to lie to my face about being attracted to me... unless I pay them at a hostess club I suppose. As for me, I'm just a MGTOW now.

>>38249 >Isn't 20 the cut off point for brain development and neuroplasticity? Myth. Neuroplasticity is there for life. You're "more" neuroplastic as a child, but you're still able to change and develop as an adult. Especially when it comes to interpersonal stuff. >When I'm alone I crave affection but when I'm around actual people irl I just want to be left alone. What's wrong with me? Affection is a lot different than socializing. There's nothing wrong with disliking socializing and craving affection. I'd go so far to say that a large portion of people dislike surface level socializing (idle chit chat, mingling at parties, elevator small talk, uber driver conversations, first dates, so on. All disliked by a ton of people). What about being around other people do you dislike? You never had any friends - is that because you never wanted any close friends, or because doing the boring, shallow socializing that usually is a prerequisite to friendship was too soykafty? Or issues of circumstance (moving too much, weird interests, not enough peers, ostracized by peers, inability to communicate, social anxiety, parents forbid socializing, grown in a lab ubtil you were 18, or anything like that)? What type of affection do you crave and why?

>>38249 >When I'm alone I crave affection but when I'm around actual people irl I just want to be left alone. What's wrong with me? The most tragic inversion. At one point you like felt fine when alone, but either lonely or nothing (and in response to feeling nothing you felt irritation, detachmentm or the desire to leave). Perhaps you then gained the conception of loneliness. The notion "I am alone". Now having this, it causes pain when alone. And yet it cannot be soothed or sated, because with the others it is still the same.

>>38251 I come from a broken home and was ostracized as a kid. I couldn't really do all that small talk socializing stuff and my classmates avoided me and saw me as strange and that's still how things are. I got rejected a lot. Slowly I've became more and more disconnected from other humans. I'd talk to objects and I still keep plants and flowers and mentally talk to them if that makes sense. I spent most of my time online and I've picked up weird hobbies that make me unapproachable. I'm generally stoic when around people and don't talk much, maybe one or two sentences here or there. I don't really feel anything around people. >What type of affection to you crave and why? I consume a lot of stuff from the romance genre and watch lots of anime, Japanese home dramas etc. It's really cringy but I think it would be nice to be in love with someone or be in a relationship. It's all unrealistic expectations I'm having thanks to being super naive and detached. It would be nice to be excited to see another person, hang out, cuddle, just have fun together etc. but I don't have anything to offer and it's cringy and stupid. I prefer being alone but I do get lonely and it happens more often. I've decided I'll commit suicide if I reach the age of 50 and I'm still a total loner because being completely isolated and getting old doesn't seem like a good idea.

>>38253 >I've decided I'll commit suicide if I reach the age of 50 Wow. The age I set was 30. What makes you want to live so long? Not telling you to do it, just seems odd to drag it out that much. You seem to believe in yourself way more than I ever did.

>>38247 >a single time period 8,000 years ago represents all of humanity for all of time. Sure. >Women literally evolved to prefer large men. Kinda but also there's a massive amount of variance. Men evolved to prefer short fat women but plenty of men like tall slim women. Even if only 1 in 100 women could possibly be interested in you, you'll probably meet at least one in your life. The real question is will you take that opportunity when it comes?

>>38255 >Men evolved to prefer short fat women That's a meme. And please, don't post that mesopotamian fertility goddess sculpture. fuarrrkin' spare me.

>>38256 Just as much of a meme as "women evolved to prefer large men".

>>38258 Yes, generally. Above a certain threshold.

>>38259 So you agree then. You can also replace "short and fat" with "short and big tits" or whatever sounds better to you. Fundamentally it's the same.

>>38260 I didn't write that post. Not going to think about this further. ty

>>38255 You're comparing apples and cockroaches. Men are capable of fetishizing a wide variety of female body types because male sexuality does not require much investment from the male. We are evolutionarily incentivized to spread our seed. That's why there are a million different porn tags for BBW, shortstack, flat chest, amputee, etc. Men have to look for a reason not to fuarrrk a woman. Believe it or not, female sexuality does not work like male sexuality. Women have to look FOR a reason to fuarrrk a man. There are no secret caches of women's smut that fetishize tiny men. There is some variation, sure, but not when it comes to height. There's the muscular tall guy, the fat tall guy, the lanky tall guy, all beloved sex symbol archetpyes that women adore. I'd love to be proven wrong. Please show me any pornographic/romantic materials demographically targeted towards straight women that depict a short muscular, short fat, or short skinny male as the romantic interest. If 1 in 100 women don't care as you suggest, it should be easy, right? When you can't find anything like this please don't feel like you have failed personally. I reiterate, thank you for your kind intentions, but I'm really okay. I'd rather just accept the harsh reality of human mating dynamics than continue to live in the delusion I once did. I wasted too much time chasing a dragon that I only believed in because of TV and movies; that romantic love was fair. That hard work would be rewarded with a loving wife who not only tolerated my physical appearance, but was turned on by it. I'm 35 now. I've grown up. It's time you do as well.

>>38262 >There are no secret caches of women's smut that fetishize tiny men There definitely, 100% are. I have read them. >Please show me any pornographic/romantic materials demographically targeted towards straight women that depict a short muscular, short fat, or short skinny male as the romantic interest. https://tags.literotica.com/short%20man/

>>38264 https://tags.literotica.com/tall%20man/ now just compare the amount of views on the first page, tall men have much more interest than short men, just get real, there is a general idea of an attractive male for females, tall, usually somewhat muscular, broad shoulders, good face, but aside that everything else comes down to personal preference like the other anon said where guys can be fat, skinny, or muscular, perhaps they like guys with blonde hair or curly hair or blue eyes or whatever, but the general outline remains

>>38264 Nice try, but you forgot about a crucial component of my request: demographically targeted towards women. All those stories include a short man, yes, but the short man is the protagonist. Those stories are all about fetishizing tall women, not short men. At this point I would appreciate it more if you stopped invalidating my lived experience.

>>38268 Just use telepathy dumbass, wtf LMAO.

>>38267 You asked for proof that there are porn stories "for women" where the main love interest is a short man or the protagonist is a tall woman. It is irrefutable that such stories exist (you could also look in the "giantess" tag, that is a popular fetish among women as well). The majority of producers and consumers of written pornography are women. You did not ask for proof that they are the majority. The claim that *most* women want a tall guy was never in dispute, but you say *all* women want a tall guy, and despite being an incel you seem to think you understand female sexuality better than anyone else. >>38268 https://www.literotica.com/s/blood-letting Written by someone who claims to be a woman, protagonist is a woman, an explicitly short man is compared to Fabio.

I think that incels simply want to be miserable. If a lot of you were actually in a relationship, you'd sabotage it. Why? Because you don't want to be in a relationship, you want to be someone who wants a relationship but can't have it. In other words, it is about self pity. I'm sorry to say it, but none of you have fuarrrk all figured out. But you pretend you do, and it's really really annoying.

>>34187 idk man im an overweight autistic sociopath and ive managed to stay married for 12 years and have two kids. stop looking at every woman as a dating prospect, get some IRL hobbys that involve other people and any woman youll meet on a dating app is damaged goods. talking to people online is a soykaf way to get to know them. attraction also go two ways. you have to look after youself better get some self discipline going and be a bit more confident and try to spend less time inside on your own and youll see that dating games anime only reflects an idealised notion of teenage love thats already passed you by. aslong as you get to know someone who doesnt do your fuarrrking head in and isnt a total mess thats good enough and youll come to realise that adult relationships really arnt that complicated. TL;DR touch grass and strke up conversation with a neighbor. i fuarrrking loved playing amagami.

>>38273 It's an undeniable fact that shorter guys have it worse in life than guys of an average height, I've heard from one guy that people feel free to push him around on public transportation because they're bigger than him and look down on him. I've heard stories from people getting severely bullied in school because they were short and scrawny. There are some short guys who manage to avoid mistreatment, perhaps they work out, or have some intimidating aura, or are highly charismatic, but in general they're going to be treated worse because they're more vulnerable. I even know people who are disabled and they get treated like soykaf all the time because psychos know they're vulnerable and can pick on them and receive no punishment for their actions. It's a cruel world. I haven't even posted anything until that last post I made. I never said all women want a tall guy either I just said that there's a general idea of an attractive male for females. And women in general are going to be more attracted to taller males, it is what it is. People as a whole try to get the best possible mate they feel they can get, but women are far more selective than men. They have a lot more on the line, they have to carry a child for 9 months and endure potentially life threatening labor in a nature environment, they're going to go after the most genetically fit male they can. While we don't live in the conditions of former days we did evolve in them. Over the passage of hundreds of thousands of years people have gradually evolved and the selection of partners has with it. People's animal instincts aren't going to be eroded after a couple hundred years of industrialization. Sure there are some few women out there who like shorter men, but showing these obscure fetishistic eroticas as proof isn't going to help a short guy. I mean these types of fetishes usually involve the larger woman dominating the small guy, a normal guy isn't going to like that, it's demeaning. Just because somebody is short doesn't mean their life is over, there's still hope, obviously people can find someone and can do things to make themselves more desirable to women but they're still going to have it much harder in life. Now in this day and age people really might not find someone, only a couple decades ago as a shorter guy you'd have far less difficulty in finding somebody but now it's like people have lost their minds and everybody is in search of absolute perfection, being that which meets every expectation they have, and will accept nothing less than that. There are plenty of other problems to compound the difficulties people are finding in forming relationships be they romantic or not but that will just get farther off topic. Even still there's a ton of people working toward "improving" themselves now to make things more challenging, it's only natural people will be frustrated.

>>38273 The majority of *writers* of literorica are women, but men still consume more. Source: I am one of those men. Except for a painfully small handful of hentai pics, most visual porn these days is pretty disgusting. And did you just debunk your own point? Yes, some women do fantasize about being giantesses and crushing small men, but it's not because they are sexually attracted to small men. It's more that they want to hurt men and have power over us, so they fantasize about all men being small. I don't know why you're so adamant about this particular thing. Are you just a short man in denial? I was there too bro. It gets better.

>>38274 The reason you will (and should) be ignored is that what you noted is a component, not the core and sole cause. So the listener will either think "what am I supposed to do with this" or "fuarrrk off". You don't actually have it all figured out, it's actually a lot more brutal and basic than even that.

>>38284 I wasn't trying to establish a "core and sole cause" (there isn't one). What I said was accurate. If people want to ignore me because I don't give them all the answers, that's their own problem. They need to question what they really want, because obviously what they claim to want and how they behave are disjointed. If they can't manage to be introspective, then they will (and should) be walked on. If they don't listen to me, that's fine, but I don't suffer from that decision at all. They are the ones drowning, and I have no final obligation or need to help them.

>>38286 So you just want to soykaf on incels, gotcha.

>>38286 >>38287 Like this Lain said, you're being dishonest now.

>>38277 >It's an undeniable fact that shorter guys have it worse in life than guys of an average height Agreed, not sure what that has to do with whether there exist women that are attracted to short guys. >>38278 >The majority of *writers* of literorica are women, but men still consume more. Source: I am one of those men. That "source" does not substantiate the claim, and I am also one of those men. >And did you just debunk your own point? Yes, some women do fantasize about being giantesses and crushing small men, but it's not because they are sexually attracted to small men. It's more that they want to hurt men and have power over us, so they fantasize about all men being small. Fair enough, but I was able to provide an example of a story that does not have these features. It took about 1 minute to find. >I don't know why you're so adamant about this particular thing. Because I think that it's really stupid to oversimplify the sexualities of women and the way it was justified was plainly reliant on false claims. Why would you think you have women figured out if you can't get pussy?

>>38292 (me) Actually, really it was more about whether it is *possible* for a woman to be attracted to a short man in >>38247 and >>38262 . This is so obviously false that I really can't understand why there is even discussion about it.

>>38292 >Why would you think you have women figured out if you can't get pussy? This argument doesn't work on both sides, the person getting pussy might have an idea of what girls like but the person not getting any knows more about what they don't like. Also, millionaires born with a silver spoon think they have money figured out and boxing coaches never fight.

>>38294 >the person getting pussy might have an idea of what girls like but the person not getting any knows more about what they don't like. Or perhaps the person getting pussy figured out what girls don't like and avoids doing those things. Fact of the matter if you're not interacting with women very much, how can you conclude anything about them? >and boxing coaches never fight. Most boxing coaches are retired boxers.

>>38295 >Or perhaps the person getting pussy figured out what girls don't like and avoids doing those things. I'm sure this autistic sociopath must have a wonderful personality >>38276 >Fact of the matter if you're not interacting with women very much, how can you conclude anything about them? Do you think people who don't get pussy never tried? I feel like this perspective comes from people who had girls giving them hints when they were younger and only realized it later in life and think incels are the same. I remember seeing that happening to friends growing up and it never happened to me until I grew into my looks and became taller. Think of the incel in your class who never got attention like that. The biggest weight off my shoulders was realizing I could still watch anime, masturbate and be a degenerate as long I'm good looking and keep myself in shape. Of course, I don't tell them I'm a pervert (I'm not but they'd take it that way). The reaction I got was literally pic related >>38031 I went from disgusting weeb to cute nerd after telling them about my hobbies. Fact is girls don't care about your personality as long as you can take hints (not too autistic) and you're not a nice guy who can't make them feel comfortable. They will overlook those flaws if you're good looking enough -for them- btw. ¨Game¨ is different but you can get a gf with those two traits+good looks (in her eyes at least) >Most boxing coaches are retired boxers. My point is that it's not black and white, the millionaire could say some valuable things about money too and many boxing coaches were better at theory but didn't have the genetics to compete, good retired coaches like Freddie Roach also get hyped up by the media. [This post turned into a vent because constant gaslighting is the most frustrating part of not being able to get a gf and I empathize with lains itt.]

>>38297 >Do you think people who don't get pussy never tried? I think that people who don't get pussy have little direct contact with female sexuality. >I feel like this perspective comes from people who had girls giving them hints when they were younger and only realized it later in life I've got good looks but I'm mainly too autistic for most women. I literally once heard a girl say to another about me at a party, "he's got a big dick but he's like, super autistic." I left after that, because of that and also just feeling overwhelmed. Got autistic gf and now life is good.

>>38298 That's true but it doesn't mean they can't make accurate conclusions about it.

>>38298 >People who don't get pussy never tried/don't talk to girls Non-delusional manlet here. I'm definitely not one of those guys. Obviously I tried dating apps but I even tried extra cringe soykaf like speed dating. I used to have a bunch of female friends post-college because I make friends with everyone relatively easily. I'm extroverted, interesting, fun, not autistic, and I unironically like going out to drink at bars. However, women are not romantically attracted to me and it just became frustrating to be around them all the time. I realized I had to end my toxic friendships with women for my mental health. What's the next attack you people like to throw... that I only had so many female friends because I'm a pushover or something? I'm assertively standing my ground and calling out your bullshit right now, am I not? Btw how many genuine female friends do you have? Or is it pretty much just a handful of coworkers, sneaky links, and your gf? You're just blaming the victim. You don't realize what you're doing is wrong because it's socially endorsed. People still do it of course, but it's no longer socially acceptable to soykaf on blacks, gays, etc. So all that primal tribal generic hatred-of-the-other gets focused like a laser beam of diarrhea on incels; men who can't compete for one reason or another. You're like the millionaire born with a silver spoon in his mouth who tells homeless people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. After all, plenty of houses are for sale. What do these homeless people know about buying a house anyway? It's not like they spend much time in houses. What I still don't understand is why you're reacting like this. Are you simply naive? Do you think you're helping by trying to convince us that women don't really care about height as much as they claim to when asked directly? Maybe the part you're missing is that I don't want a woman to tolerate me in exchange for money. I don't want a woman to settle for me because all the tall men are taken. That feels gross and ends in divorce anyway. I hope you have enough self-respect to not want that for yourself either.

>>38287 That's not what I said. >>38288 I don't even know what you mean by that. I refuse to pity incels. That's what these people want. They want to be pitied. If they actually wanted a relationship, then they would realize that to want something requires to also want the means toward that something. Incels don't even understand something as basic as questioning whether rationalizing their loneliness in ways which establish an external locus of control (i.e blaming it on half-baked evolutionary-psych nonsense) necessarily reinforces that loneliness. It's about self pity, and it always will be. If they are really so botched that they have no hope and everything is out of their control, why should anyone care? If I am growing an beautiful garden, why would I want to plant weeds. I look at incels, and I see a group of people who are rife with righteous indignation, narcissism, and extreme vanity. On one hand, not too different from the larger mass of society. On the other, this is no credit to their name and they are not at all redeemed by virtue of being victimized in certain ways that others are not either. This obsession with lionizing victims is an absurdity. Especially when they are delusional and conspire to sabotage themselves in order to remain victims. Then they have the gall to demand that others empathize with and cater to them? It's all just self motivated, like anything else. There is nothing ennobling about being diseased. I have no interest in defending the moral prejudices of society (I myself am condemned by the very same prejudices in many respects). So what is to be done? That's for them to figure out. Most of them will fail, and that's to be expected. Most people fail in general, even if they can go get laid. Incels are often successful in other areas of life where others aren't, which is something that is totally hilarious to me given how catastrophic they pretend their position is.

>>38315 >I refuse to pity incels. That's what these people want. They want to be pitied. If they actually wanted a relationship[...] Again Lain, I understand all that. You're not wrong, but you're still trying to find and assert a single core cause from which all else stems. A key factor that keeps the feedback loop in place, a core basis and energy source. You're starting from and overgeneralizing the "victim culture" or "victim virtue" notions to do this. You write a lot about and are clearly passionate about solving the problem. But ironically, you need to expand your mind. And by the way, I wrote all this after only reading the quoted portion, I didn't even read the rest until I finished. What does that tell you? I'm a 30 year old virgin and the desire for self pity is only a minor cause, which actually works indirectly via a largely unconscious infantile desire for a savior. To be forcibly humanized, to be destroyed and made anew. Because when I was growing up, I was always alone and I saw it as me against the world. With my mother I was perfect and loved and yet everything I did was wrong and I had to walk on eggshells. I was spousified and parentified. This basically creates what I call "robot child alters" at the core, but more importantly it completely kills the capacity for desire and positive emotions. Rather what you do is bottle and tap into streams of negative experiences and achieve comfort by alleviating them (positive emotions are synthesized selectively from negative ones), the others don't understand so you learn to work indirectly, you draw them in and then reject them over and over. What capped it off for me was prolonged physical and psychological torture throughout my 20's. This triggered the need to be invulnerable, not the desire for pity. I had to hide it and remain in control. Eventually I couldn't and that was a key factor. I will copy paste something I wrote intended for people who overuse porn. I've wrote better things on the actual basis and genesis of these personality constellations, and what sustains them, but idc rn. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The takeaway for me is, and I structure things into three layers which are the real (actual events and sensory input), the abstract symbolic layer (internal symbols, relations, and structures), and the core (true basis). At the core I would say I associate connection of any kind with complete annihilation. Death and rebirth. Connection is what ends and remakes the world. Connection to self, to body, to world, to reality, to other, to anything. This is because the only thing the core self comprehends is the return to the primordial cold, which is where all else stems from. And there are other key factors to do with early childhood and so on but I won't bother. Association between connection (which implies one's own existence, which creates a reflection) and death. Therefore connection is avoided. If connections ends and remakes the world, and I am not done with the world as it is, obviously I would reject it. From this the constellation of intimacy terror and associated trauma induced avoidances, triggers, physical and verbal conditioning in the formative years, etc takes shape. The reason it shopuld be seen as a constellation is because the same gist can happen to different people, but they'll all form different connections and arrangements between them. So that's it. Visibility is vulnerability, connection is cruelty, closeness is mutual harm, change is death. Existence itself is draining. Pretty straightforward. I would say the key event for me was when a girl I actually liked asked me out, and I rejected her. Reflexively, I'll just disappoint her, this is unfamiliar and threatening, etc. Then with another girl. And another. And another. Warm cold, push pull, build something up and run away from it just before it amounts to something. Programmed self sabotage. All revolves around the return to the primordial cold, which is a rejection of one's humanity and being bound and crystallized by "growing up" and externally imposed "identity". This comes from early childhood divorce ~3 and being given video games to play instead, then the father being replaced by another threatening male who I decided should die by ~5. Then this was all gone, so it layered over without reconciliation and became a sort of amnesia. I also think there's some sort of insidious and very deliberate maybe media based brainwashing that leads to this schizotypal, narcissistic, perhaps autistic schizoid solipsistic self sabotage behavior. Because it's very odd. Very programmed. Of course it doesn't feel odd when you destroy yourself, but it is odd, if you really think about it! The last part is the parentification / spousification (emotional incest), double binds, and exposure to misandry and misogyny in early development. This and the type of people who try to pass it on to children must be eliminated from the child's life completely. They are a type of poison. With men exposure to women without husbands is also profoundly negative, because they can't actually manage themselves. Without the sexual component, the male cannot regulate her behavior fully. This is a sort of emasculation, or psychological castration. Man hating creatures are just as bad. Always going on about how men are all so terrible, then they get with them anyway. This tells the child that women don't like sex, and hate men. They hate each other, they hate themselves for wanting to be wanted, they hate men for desiring them, and they're basically biologically programmed to do what they do but there is no way it can turn out well. Then the media reinforces the conception of women as apex predators. Cold, ruthless, and utterly empty. Manipulators, users, contrivers. This is transferred into the unconscious and facilitates doublethink later on. If that is a woman then of course with all of this, the mere idea of being the man, of conquering and containing mother nature herself, it is not possible. So he becomes schizoid and frigid and simply avoids it all instead. You can also see how this forms part of the "decay chain" by which a man becomes trans as well (which the world tried to do to me, and I put it in its own comaprtment mentally and watched what sort of threads were being woven and plucked, but I overall ignored because it is nonsense). He hyperpolarizes and becomes extremely masculine and "counterdependent", this exhausts him because he cannot outsource his Anima functions. So he decays into a dynamic where he goes between numb and null, to both (divine androgyne/hermaphrodite imitation, see eg rubedo and the great work). In a Lilith allegory he elevates his Anima to equal standing, but odds are this will eventually lead to engulfment, not unlike an infant returning to a state before birth. The Anima doesn't have a reflection in the world, so it seeks out a reflection through women. This Pygmalion behavior eventually inverts to the more classical autogynephilia. Which mind you I did not experience or go down that road internally or externally, but I did allow it to be simulated in part of the inner world. It makes perfect sense. This then solidifies the problem of intimacy, because an actual woman has to outcompete and displace a relatively powerful Anima which doesn't like to connect to the outside world. It's more Lilith than Eve, to put it in quasi-religious terminology. The Anima needs its own type of fuel, and if it isn't getting it through being part of a social network of sorts, it manufactures it on its own. Porn is extremely crude, but viable, when it comes down to it. The other thing I would say is that dual use is part of the early cause. Like I actually learned to program, learned to work with video, learned mathematics and about compression algorithms, and cinematography, and all sorts of things.... due to highly sublimated libido. None of it was for directly sexual or pornographic purposes, but that was an initating and sustaining part of it. I saw everything as dual use, even something down to the design of a room or something, I'm like huh I can take that concept and use that for something else. I do this with everything. Like if you go on pixiv or something, search "landscape". You'll find a lot of nice landscapes, odd, interesting, technically impressive and intricate environments, alien worlds. But look at the engagement and ratings difference with a plain landscape, and a landscape with an attractive or interesting woman placed in it. One clearly motivates more than the other. This is exploitable to try to hack the brain... but if you have a collapse of this sublimation and transmutation machinery, it leads to what I just call hypersexual diffusion. Where everything becomes sexual. And it can't be used or managed at all. It actually is redirected back onto the self for the purpose of sustaining a state of living death, killing the inner world and making sure it stays drained of live. It is safer and easier to not be a living thing, and it gives the core what it needs, which is to be apart. To be special. People say this like "you just think you're so special and you need to be [b;ah blah" and it can be true, but it's actually way deeper, more fundamental, and strictly unconscious. Probably arrested development from 3 to 6 or so. The person is not actually experiencing themselves as trying to be unique, or needing to be the mostest specialest coolest and most unique person in the room! Even if that's due to a lack of human characterists and complete emptiness. It's not conscious. It simply locks things in and prevents change, that's it. [1/2]

[2/2] Because if you change you're losing yourself, being engulfed. And when you realize that everyone and everything is sexual, and that sex is what makes energy flow, an everyone is having sex except for you, and you are like 30 and so old now, then you realize you're more like a biological artificial intelligence and not quite a real person, an incomplete being. Then with awareness it all implodes and you spiral. Until you calm the mind enough to process and exit the loop, and have a bunch of mini seizures apparently. I would also mention the notion of structural dissociation and the Internal Family Systems model. The Hijacker may actually be a component of something that is trying to help you. It might think hurting you in this way will protect you from something worse elsewhere. It's just doing what it was conditioned to do. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To be clear I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not trying to discourage you. I think your message is probably very important for some people. Beyond self pity (fuel source, needed to keep oneself ina state of living death, fear of life and connection, need to remain apart) there is simply cowardice and early childhood conditioning. And addiction to pain and inability to let go of the old world because they're still using it and it runs so deep they can't conceive of anything else. The self pity angle has to be unearthed and highlighted, but is probably very well fortified. You'd have to really get everyone in the culture to stop mocking them and really pummel them with "you're just scared" and "you just want to be separate, can't handle it" to bypass this. Otherwise trying to go after that (still higher) layer directly, they'll just lock down because it's not what they're consciously experiencing at all. In the slightest. I think you're also operating from the empty schizoid core notions, or the BPD/NPD framework. If anything it's the schizoid manifestation of the collapsed narcissistic state. Where the experience of empathy and emotions are really self pity and self run through others. Which, is a facet, a key cluster in the constellation, but it can't remain standing on its own.

>>38315 First of all, you are talking about volcels. Incels haven't give up (yet). That's why do so many efforts to preted to be high status men even if they know how cringe they really are. They keep trying. You are talking about the blackpilled volcels. Now consider the following: In the past, a women would not have a relationship without risiking to become a mother. As a direct conequence, men had to be marriage material or to stay dry. At every point of history, men have done what society excpeted from them to get a women. Now, with divorce, contraception and abortion, it's not the case anymore. Girls just want to have fun and they can all date the top 10% of the men. Another factor is new: women now don't need to marry a men to gain acess to the money (labor) of a men. Now the state will give it to them. There is literally 0 reason to marry or stay married to a man who is not in the top. As a direct result, the men who are not high social status material pretend to be one. And they fail. Again, it's not an individual problem. Eventually, the young men figure they are far from being the only ones to face the same issue and they do what everyone do in this situation: form a community. Now, this could only be the problem of half of the men in the country, but don't forget the only reason why men went to the coal mine or the factories, working until they drop is because it was the key to gain what they dream of. Now that dream is gone. Housing is not affordable for the working man. Half the men can not marry a women and start a family. Birthrate and workforce participation is in free fall.

>>38330 >form a community. This is probably among the worst and most maldapted of the vestigial human impulses.

>>38315 Sounds like you're strawmanning a bit. I don't want anyone's pity, and I see no one else in this thread who is looking for anything other advice. I just also don't want any of the blame either. If you were born with tall genes, don't blame me for being born short. Why is that so hard for so many people? FFS I've had people say my height is my fault because I didn't work out enough or eat right. The truth is it's not my fault and I'm not alone. As other lains have said, hypergamy has driven the standards too high for most men to reproduce. Get over it. If you're fortunate enough to be able to get a gf without being a multimillionaire, why do you feel the need to go on this little crusade against incels? I actually don't think you "earned" your good fortune. Maybe you had your struggles with autism/cowardice, but chances are you were still playing on easy mode. To a baby who has never experienced real pain, a bee sting is the worst pain imaginable. Maybe the root of your desire to attack incels (who generally don't want pity in the first place) has more to do with realizing you'd be an incel too if a few dice rolls went differently. The "involuntary" aspect is surely terrifying to a lot of people. But that's life. You win some, you lose some.

>>38305 >>People who don't get pussy never tried/don't talk to girls >Non-delusional manlet here. I'm definitely not one of those guys. Cool. But you'll note that that isn't what I'm saying at all. If you aren't a woman and don't have sex with women, then chances are you have little direct experience with female sexuality. Even if you have lots of female friends that doesn't mean you are intimately familiar with their sexual tastes or their most private desires that they might not even admit to themselves. >What I still don't understand is why you're reacting like this. Are you simply naive? I do not believe that being short precludes the possibility of a female finding you attractive. The justifications that have been made for the claim that women cannot find a short man attractive were flimsy and I have attacked them using evidence that was specifically asked for. I have had some very short friends that complained that it was difficult (but not impossible, as evidenced by the existence of their sex life) to get women when you are a short man. I take their testimony a lot more seriously than anything I read online, so I'm fully aware how hard it is. However I think it's stupid and counterproductive to make sweeping, incorrect generalizations of female sexuality to make the logical leap from "it is very difficult for me to get laid" to "it is literally impossible for me to get laid".

Wow, a surprisingly good take from the women on /r/TwoXchromosomes: The more that women exercise their right to choose the kind of partner the want, or if they even want a partner at all, the more it terrifies the men who fear they wont be chosen. Now women are no longer kept in a position where they NEED a man in order for their basic survival needs to be met, men who know they don't fit the bill physically, emotionally and/or financially are being left behind. Don't keep yourself and your surroundings clean and tidy intentionally? No thank you. You intentionally neglect your own health? No thank you. Not emotionally intelligent? No thank you. Cant be bothered to work or be financially independent? No thank you. And, yes, not physically attractive? No thank you. They try to prey on the more vulnerable women. The ones who were abused from a young age and don't know the difference. The ones who have internalised the mysogyny in a hope they become more attractive to men. The ones haven't yet realised they deserve better, and there is better. They realise the privilege their fathers and grandfather's had of not even having to meet the bare minimum and getting away with it doesn't exist anymore. They feel hard done by. They looked up to these people as role models only to realise that privilege doesn't exist anymore and they're MAD about it.

>>38336 This post is good and accurate in many ways but it does nothing to dispel (in fact, it reinforces) the myth that all women want exactly the same thing.

>>38336 You do know, I hope, that you just posted the blackpill form incels forum but from a feminine perspective? >Not in the cream of the cream? Well, bad luck for you, we don't owe you anything >What do you mean no pussy no work?

>>38339 >>What do you mean no pussy no work? Liberal feminism has convinced entire generations of women that they actually want to work as much or more than men, so that's actually not a problem for them. Anyway if you want to do a whole-gender strike be my guest, I'm gonna scab tho.

>>38335 >>38305 >Even if you have lots of female friends that doesn't mean you are intimately familiar with their sexual tastes or their most private desires that they might not even admit to themselves. What was the point of saying this? No soykaf I don't have intimate sexual knowledge of women who don't want to have sex with me. Kinda sounds like you're insulting me for no reason because I don't see how knowledge of what positions women generally enjoy or whatever is relevant to this discussion. But I'll let it slide. Why do you think women are these complex mysterious creatures who exclusively are attracted to good men no matter their appearance? Women are just people bro. All I really need to do is stay late at the bar and observe who goes home with who to figure out what they find attractive. Hell, most women are not shy about this particular preference if you ask them directly. >I do not believe that being short precludes the possibility of a female finding you attractive. It seems like you need this to be true for some reason. How short is this army of short male friends you have? Being taller is always better, but there is a point where no woman will consider it, roughly 5'5" in my research. It does matter where you live of course, so maybe it's more accurate to say the cutoff is 2 standard deviations below the average male height. I'm sure your short male friends are shorter than you, but I'd bet they aren't in the 1st percentile of height like I am. Do you think there is ANY physical trait that women find so repulsive she can't get wet? What about men without dicks? Without eyes? Do you think there is someone out there for everyone no matter how they look? Do you also think there is someone out there for everyone no matter how they behave? If not, why would it be easier to find women with unusual physical preferences than women with unusual behavioral preferences? Where are all the short unemployed abusive drug addicts with girlfriends? I've personally met quite a few tall men like that... and they're usually drowning in pussy. How do you reconcile your worldview with the lived experience of one of the shortest most successful actors of all time? True, he is married, but she's not with him for his personality. She's obviously not attracted to him physically, otherwise he wouldn't have said this: https://www.nydailynews.com/2013/04/17/peter-dinklage-game-of-thrones-star-on-sex-symbol-status-i-dont-believe-any-of-it/ It's so sweet you're pretending your short male friends are chads or whatever, but this isn't the way to support them. In the past when I've investigated stories like this, without fail there is a catch. Usually it's the short guy is well-off and she is a gold-digger. She fuarrrked the alphas in her prime and it getting bucks from the beta when she settles. Then there are the arranged marriage guys who cope by watching a soykafload of porn which is common among foreign nationals. Before I stopped paying attention to this nonsense a few years ago I started uncovering even sadder situations more often. It was an open relationship. The gf turned out to be trans. I guess that's fine if everyone is consenting but those are definitely not things I'd ever be willing to consent to.

>>38337 Did you ever consider that maybe incels are right, but people don't like to hear inconvenient truths? Especially from unattractive people.

>>38315 >Not lonely >Total chad >Completely ripped because of fast metabolism >Look like a greek statue >Hey Lain this girl wants to fuarrrk >"Then tell her to go get fuarrrked." I can't support children, I'm not fuarrrking anything. I won't even let her suck my dick for the expectation she'll inseminate herself. I leave these bitches wet and bothered, not because they're hoes, I honestly couldn't give a fuarrrk about evolutionary predisposed emotions like "sexual jealousy." What kind of weak minded glitterboy allows soykaf like that to get to him? >Unga neighbor cave built bigger deck out front >Oooga booga unga needa compete This is the level of stupidity the current sexual dynamic enforces, like getting your hair done extra expensive because one of your friends looks better then you. Being a quiet hobbyist(and a bick dig prior military) my small friends group all try to set me up with these thots, assuming I'm incel. It's the funniest soykaf in the room when these garbage ass hoes realize I'm the epitome of what they're looking for, and I want absolutely nothing to do with them; Predators have the capability to limit their sexual desires per their access to resources. Prey just keep fuarrrking and having babies because it feels good. Don't be prey. >ur lying Lain haha we all make soykaf up on the internet I haven't had sex in 12 years and since that time have been propositioned 7 times, directly by females themselves, or by my friends group. >Lol Lain just take advantage of them haha No. That's what makes me a solid-marble dicked capital L Legend of a pussy magnet chadman. These bitches were attracted to me just based on my looks, and when I tell them they have soykafty taste in men and need to find one that isn't a raw asshole, they swoon. >>38337 All of us want the same thing: Successful offspring. To devout Christian women, that means following their book and finding a "meek" man who will "inherit the earth" like their stupid fuarrrking book says, but the fact of the matter is "Successful offspring" is a personal, often misguided assessment. That is to say, you can directly gauge the worth of a woman based on her assessment of "Successful offspring" and female social analysis is pathetically dependent on their adjacent gossip; Capitalism has bred the most insufferably entitled cunts the planet will ever see, a perfect mirror of their social environment, and once again, the perfect metric to gauge their disillusion with reality. >Money and trading stocks are real. I need a man that sits in an office all day and makes 300,000. Lol you do manual labor? Get a real job, like talking on the phone or sucking your boss' dick at a legal firm. 100 years ago >You work with... money?.... that's.... gross. Are any of your brothers farmers or soldiers? I need a man with actual skills... You look good but I just can't see myself with a man focused on a store of value. I need a man who can make ACTUAL value, not a placeholder like money....

>>38343 >What was the point of saying this? Well, it seemed to be the thing you were misinterpreting, so I repeated it more clearly. >Why do you think women are these complex mysterious creatures who exclusively are attracted to good men no matter their appearance? I don't, I just don't think they're caricatures that for some reason have a much more restricted set of possible sexual preferences as men, which is a false claim that was made in this thread. >It seems like you need this to be true for some reason. I believe it to be true. >How short is this army of short male friends you have? can't say I ever asked. I'm average height and they are both much shorter than me. >Do you think there is ANY physical trait that women find so repulsive she can't get wet? Maybe whatever disease Hotwheels has? >Do you think there is someone out there for everyone no matter how they look? No, I think shortness in particular is not a dealbreaker for 100% of women. >How do you reconcile your worldview with the lived experience of one of the shortest most successful actors of all time? True, he is married, but she's not with him for his personality. LMAO, he's married. He's also a dwarf; that is a genetic disease that is different from just being short. >It's so sweet you're pretending your short male friends are chads or whatever I'm really not. You just want me to be. You seem to be constantly misinterpreting what I have been saying, so let me just say it as plainly as possible: I think that, while being short does make it much more difficult to attract a woman, I don't think it makes it *impossible* to find a woman, which I must again say is something that has been claimed in this thread and elsewhere (see >>38262 ). Please do not reply with yet another attempt at skewing what I have been saying into your pre-defined argumentative responses. I will not reply to them again.

>>38351 I think I finally understand. I originally assumed you were trying to help the people in this thread by spreading false hope, which I could not reconcile with your subtle insults and dismissal of our lived experiences. It didn't track so I mainly wanted to get to the bottom of why you were acting like that. I also wanted to help rectify some common misconceptions you had. Even I didn't understand that women cared so much about height until I was about 30. I thought I was doing something wrong, that my tall junkie friends knew some magical secret about women, that I needed more female friends, that women were mistaken when they explicitly explained to me how crucial height is to attraction, etc. Realizing it's not my fault and I'm not alone made my life so much better. I assumed you were a well-meaning guy doing more harm than good. Turns out you actually were chasing dopamine by being an argumentative contrarian. Pic related. Now your behavior makes a lot more sense. Sorry for assuming your intentions.

>>38336 >Cant be bothered to work or be financially independent? this is bullshit and pretty much a myth. any idea of financial independence disregards current day socioeconomic conditions. also fuarrrk wagies. neets have already taken the heavens and will inherit the earth >They realise the privilege their fathers and grandfather's had of not even having to meet the bare minimum and getting away with it doesn't exist anymore. this "privilege" only has existed recently maybe a 1/2 century or so and only in parasite countries(i.e. the developed world). historically men were screened for physical ability(sorry cripples) and attraction(free from horrible deformities) in both nomadic and agrarian societies. as for more urbanized societies this has pretty much dissolved since standards have fallen and the obsession with comfort rather than character gave way to mediocrity also >/r/TwoXchromosomes go back,redditard

>>38352 Sorry, as mentioned, I'm autistic af and I'm pretty much just interested in being correct in any kind of argument. Seeing blatantly uninformed posts like those which initially started the argument (I'm pretty sure you aren't even one of the people I was replying to, at first) stating falsehoods and then doubling down when challenged really gets me going, and being relentlessly misinterpreted and strawmanned was the icing on the cake. Perhaps rather than dopamine I am chasing cortisol. But one way or another yes, I'm really not here to give anyone false hope, and I'm also not here to give anyone false despair, as incels love to. I think dating is one of those things where there isn't really such a thing as good advice. A thread like this is going to be full of "just be confident bro" and "women are evil and also stupid and dumb". I'd rather have a pointless internet argument than that drivel. >>38355 reddit is full of neolib dipshits so it's no surprise that a poster on TwoXChromosomes would value "financial independence" and basically talk down to anyone that isn't a "winner".

>>38336 I can't even believe that you as a man assumedly could post something like this unironically, you might as well just chop your balls off right now if you're serious. This is how _some women_ project themselves but they don't even really want this. You can have a guy that meets all of their criteria and it still isn't enough. Women really don't know what the hell they want, and that is in part why the world is going to soykaf, in part of course. Because they're being allowed by weak men to dominate society, so you have these bipolar emotional beings at the helm, it's not going to end well. Just a couple decades ago it seemed like men had more options, men could select from women, men could keep women insecure, it was better that way, as a man you could get some pussy and didn't have to deal with the kinds of crazy soykaf bitches on reddit (lol) are talking about. You didn't have as many angry incels and maniacs shooting up malls because they aren't getting pussy. If you look at the married population now, from my point of view at least, and from that of my friends, it's all these weak pussy-whipped glitterboys getting married. There are these overbearing women who think they run soykaf choosing to marry soft hearted men who are worse looking than them (so the man feels grateful toward the woman), but the guy can provide money for them, so they just use him for a time before divorce raping him. The only good thing to say is that things can't continue this way forever, because women don't run the planet. Women serve men, they always have, and they always will. We're in a rare unnatural phase right now where diluted females have gotten themselves to believe they can run things and provide for themselves in whatever vapid manner they currently do, but it'll pass, because this current situation is unsustainable. Things will only break down further with every weak willed "man" that deals with their bullshit.

>>38362 This isn't how things really work? Are you arguing that women would rather settle for a sub-normal guy than die alone? Do you not accept the fact of hypergamy? She's explaining it from the perspective of a feminist, but it's still perfectly in line with data that describes the modern dating scene. I think you misunderstood her point. She's not suggesting that she is attracted to weak/poor men. She's saying she refuses to settle for that, whereas her grandma did because it was better than the alternative of being a nun. The standards have been raised for everyone. You're immediately disregarding her because she's a woman. While that's generally a good policy, we can easily verify her claims with online dating data, or the collapsing birth rates. I also agree that it's not good right now and that it will take nothing short of a civilizational collapse or sharia law for marriage to return to being a possibility for subnormal men.

>>38369 >Are you arguing that women would rather settle for a sub-normal guy than die alone? That seems plainly obvious. Why else would women stay with boyfriends/husbands they don't like, or even in abusive relationships? A lot of women, in fact especially promiscuous women that go out with "chads", have very low self esteem. >hypergamy Meme word. A small percentage of females (<10%) are extremely promiscuous.

>>38369 >we can easily verify her claims with online dating data doctors and scientists are the most pussy whipped professions in existence lmao >>38362 >it's all these weak pussy-whipped glitterboys getting married. this alot of the time it comes off as though they are folding, there is nothing genuine or anything resembling romance at the core >We're in a rare unnatural phase right now where diluted females have gotten themselves to believe they can run things and provide for themselves in whatever vapid manner they currently do it really feels that way, wish i could name another ancient time where this shiiiit culminated and climaxed so that we know how this mass retardation concludes. perhaps our ancestors were too based. or maybe the historical fuarrrkup of allowing women anywhere near a position of authority ended with so much trauma humanity decided to damn it from memory entirely leaving the lesson to be forgotten. though being that europeans are infamous for having the tendency for producing the worst white knights, all futures see to europe and its child societies being scorched. >>38373 >A small percentage of females (<10%) are extremely promiscuous. old wisdom for you lain no hymen = town bike assume the worst

>So what are some actually good resources for what to do and what not to do when trying to be romantic with the opposite sex? Not here. >>38376 >no hymen = town bike Fun fact, it's not uncommon for hymens to fall out on their own.

>>38377 >hymens to fall out on their own. lol hoes sort themselves its in their biological programing

>>38373 That's the thing: they DON'T stay in relationships with soyboys who make less than them. Women divorce them and take the consolation prize of the kids, house, alimony, and social validation. They obviously stay with wealthy betas because they want to live comfortably without working, but that's not really a situation you should want to be in anyway. It's half the dual mating strategy. They stay with abusive men because some facets of that abuse give them tingles, women are generally easy to manipulate, and things like Stockholm syndrome. You're still thinking women work like men. If you were in their shoes, you would begrudgingly settle for a beta with a mid job. But that's because in real life you are willing to settle for a woman a couple points below your looksmatch so long as she's not ran through (which is slightly more likely with homely girls btw). You certainly don't give a fuarrrk about how much money she makes. The status quo has always been that men dating down after all. If you did everything right, if you worked your ass off, you think you're owed the mere privilege of no longer relying on masturbation to orgasm. That's a right virtually all women and gay men have. Yes, even older women. The Wall is only for marriage, not sex. Maybe you're some sort of pornosexual or asexual who doesn't care about sex and won't feel like failure if you end up alone. However, you have to agree that most men would, and a large part of that is the inability to engage in a natural part of the human experience that all your forefathers experienced. *Women feel that way about having kids.* Therefore, men have unconditional love for women, women have unconditional love for their children. That's why women are perfectly content to initiate 80% of all divorces while middle aged single men initiate (and complete) 80% of all suicides. And while the wage gap between men and women isn't real, the orgasm gap definitely is. Part of this due to the Coolidge effect. Part of this is due to women reliably settling for a beta in her 30s. Part of this may even be due to society. Women don't expect to get orgasms and childcare from their husband. They expect to get resources and children.

>>38380 >You're still thinking women work like men. Please shut the fuarrrk up about this. It goes without saying that women and men are different, everyone knows that. The question is *what* are the differences, and in that regard you're basically just repeating stupid memes and reverse-engineering evolutionary psychology explanations for why things should be set up in a way that just happens to leave you on top. As soon as a hole opens up ("why do women stay with losers then?") you have an explanation that changes the thesis but amazingly leaves the political thrust of your theory intact. How convenient! At least be a man and admit that you don't have a good wanting women to be inferior.

>>38382 >Please shut the fuarrrk up about this. lel, beat em up Lain.

>>34187 Take the following with a grain of salt: I'm a lonely virgin that used to be kind of scared of women. It's gotten better, but something like a worthwhile relationship is still far out of reach. Couple of things to think about / suggestions: 1) Get used to interacting with people 2) Treat women as people 3) Be chill, open and honest 4) No amount of "resources" will help. Knowledge will not help. 5) Your own psychology may be your biggest hurdle 6) Seeking a relationship to fill the hole inside your heart is not fair to the other person and can only ever end in misery for all parties involved 2) may seem like a no-brainer, but it's really not. Just look at your language. You talk about girls as if they are some weird alien species. Chances are that there are all kinds of judgments, generalizations and prejudices wrapped up in this. It's not necessarily about misogyny, but more about seeing girls as "other". A practical tip for 1) and 2): volunteer at a food bank or animal shelter. It gives you something to do and a reason to interact with people. Both of those tend to have a pretty high percentage of women participating. A lot, if not most of them, will be either older or in committed relationships. You won't get laid and it should not be your goal. But that's a good thing, it's "safe" in that you don't have to fear being judged as a potential partner. The point is to get used to people in general and women specifically. Also, doing good is a good thing. In the beginning you can just go there, ask where you can help and just help. You can open up and join the conversations slowly as you feel comfortable. 5) is probably the main thing truly holding me back. You know, the usual things like low self-worth and being scared soykafless of intimacy and real human connections. Psychological issues can pop up and manifest in all kinds of weird ways. Therapy is almost always a good idea for anyone that finds their way to this site.

>>38382 No need to get so upset. I'm on your side dude. I'm an autistic tradcon incel too. It's not like hypergamy benefits me. I truly hope you are right and the inform "alpha fuarrrks, beta bucks" theory is a lie made up by Jews to weaken the White race. The problem is there's a lot of evidence to the contrary that supports this theory. And I'm not sure it's sound reasoning to dismiss data because it was collected by pussy whipped scientist soyboys lmao

>>38380 >they DON'T stay in relationships with soyboys who make less than them. Sexy Son Theory FTW. neets know this and use it their advantage, disregard this slip slop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexy_son_hypothesis >>38380 >women have unconditional love for their children hahaahah have you ever been to any sort of mall or happen to watch 5 sec of any "reality" show. the modern women resents them for making them a literal cow and reminding them of their primitive breeding role >>38383 >3) Be chill, open and honest gay and stupid. also canned asf >5) Your own psychology may be your biggest hurdle bullshit >6) Seeking a relationship to fill the hole inside your heart is not fair to the other person and can only ever end in misery for all parties involved again bullshit, having no one makes anyone a miserable bitch >>38385 volunteering is for retards. actual pro tip here, pretend to be homeless and trust no one. if youre smart you'll get some free stuff and more importantly practical life experience, at worst you'll get some is hostile glances. do it enough enough times youll be hardy enough for 90% of any interactions

>>38388 >unsubstantiated meme >"on okcupid.com" any dating site has a vastly asymmetrical user base. Basically it's an obvious conclusion about what happens when there are way more men in a dating pool than women, and most of the women are only on there ironically in the first place. >The problem is there's a lot of evidence to the contrary that supports this theory. There is evidence, and I'm sure it is possible to put together a well-reasoned, coherent explanation supported by interviews, sound statistics, detailed analysis, etc. What you've been posting is just propaganda. I wonder if the incel phenomenon is funded by someone or if it's been purely organic. It does seem that incels tend to get extreme, to the point of insanity, making them perfect for terrorist or paramilitary activity, and with so many women straight up afraid of men because of the soykaf some incels do and say it's also a great way to suppress the birth rate as well.

>>38276 >I'm an overweight autistic sociopath who managed to stay married for 12 years Mind sharing your height?

>>38391 I definitely think the spread of inform "philosophy", the rise in hypergamy, and the collapse of birth rates are organic phenomena. Namely because it keeps happening all over the world in civilized countries. It's not just the West, arguably Asia has it worse than us. All these social problems have an inverse relationship with the quality of living in all these places. Even in America, these problems of blow birthrates and brutal dating scene apparently don't exist in our inner city ghettos... they just suck in every other way. So it's a trade-off. Personally I'd rather live in a place where the norm is being wealthy and comfortable even if it means dating is harder. There is some recent evidence that Europe is reversing these trends by importing Muslims and Africans. America actually does this too with Latinx people. Nothing bumps those birthrates like illegal immigrants. It's not super well-designed but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the parallels with the Universe 25 experiment: https://medium.com/illumination/the-unsettling-parallels-between-universe-25-and-our-ai-driven-world-eeff80e5f4ba

Late in life virginity is an odd issue. Or more plainly and separated from the strictly sexual, being 30 and not having connected with another human + complete rejection of intimacy. I think it does something to you. I've pushed it back out of my mind after the awareness crashing down on me and becoming all consuming ~27, but it makes me think. I do feel like the clock in a way I'm not entirely aware of. But I have no conception of anything else. Nor can I force myself to create one. I feel I will be drained and devoured by the world, and maybe I'm right.

>>38412 >awareness crashing came crashing* > feel like the clock in a way clock is ticking* With word omission and brain-typos that affect chunks of sentences, this is also meaningful.

>>38397 188cm so taller than average but not really "tall". Never considered that to be a meaningful factor to be honest

You know, the more I think about it, I think a paradigm shift in human relations is a large factor in the rise of sexless and lonely men. I'm in my mid thirties so I managed to grow up when in a largely non-digital world. I witnessed the rise of the internet and how the world came closely connected. It's insane to think that this too did not have an adverse affect on an interpersonal level. As society becomes increasingly atomized, as all forms human thought and behavior have been monetized in the most cynical way, it naturally follows that how we see and communicate with one another has changed. As I alluded to earlier in the post, I'm in my mid thirties and I too was married for a decade plus. By the late 2000's social media was becoming widely integrated with our lives - Twitter making the exchanging of world news and information instantaneous, Instagram as the model of conspicuous consumption, and so forth - along with the data mining of major corpos for the sake of marketing has made the old forms of communication obsolete. It must fuarrrking suck to be gen z or alpha. I'm sorry boys, but you guys have a very tough path forward. No wonder so many people feel alienated and disconnected; it was an inevitability in the digital age.

>>38419 Birth control made chastity and obsolete virtue. All the ancient philosophers, prophets, and religions pushed some form of sexual restraint. If you don't control your lust for pleasure you can get a disease or end up in an unwanted pregnancy, just like eating too much can cause obesity or destroy your liver. Birth control and condoms came along and now it doesn't matter, with the right tech you can be as promiscuous as you like and never have syphilis eat your brain. What's lost in the process is the whole idea of self-control, not letting your impulses rule you and being in charge of yourself. Birth control pills, condoms and sex change operations were the first transhumanist technologies and just like other pieces of tech I sometimes wonder if the changes they brought were good because they've just atomized people even further.

>>38421 >All the ancient philosophers, prophets, and religions pushed some form of sexual restraint. Dionysian mysteries and many more besides would beg to differ. Unless by "sexual restraint" you mean literally any kind of conscious control over your actions.

>>38423 Many of the ones that had some aspect were sort of caste based. You had the upper caste that was sexually extremely restricted if not totally and the "lower class" they thought was basically guaranteed to be damned/repeat life and those ones because they thought they had no chance were kind of encouraged to do whatever. That applies to hindus, machineans, and some other neoplatonic derived occult stuff. >>38421 Yeah they did and for good reason, sex is very pleasurable so people are most likely to choose things that are pleasurable without considering how it impacts other stuff more, so it's very important to be cautious about. If anyone wants a quick tl;dr of why: Humans (are all beings really) are a network of different functions, powers, that are all designed to maintain the whole, to be a good human being is to use those functions in a way that harmoniously improve the being as a whole. A good basic example is with nutrition, we are able to eat and get pleasure from it, however if you don't eat in a way that's mindful of how that effects all your other functions it is harmful to the being as a whole. Eating badly can lead to negatively effecting your ability to think, find a mate, have energy to do physical activity, or in a much simpler level just getting sick. There is a pleasure in eating which leads people sometimes to be "blinded" to the goods of these other functions so they choose to eat food in a way that disregards of the being as a whole. The wholeness of the being is also known sort of keeping in mind it's future potential, you can eat in a way that may not cause significant disharmony looked at immediately, but will/can lead to much more significant issues in the future, keeping you from having a beautiful life. (A prop view of human/biological goodness needs to keep what the point is in mind, having a beautiful life as a whole including 20 years in the future) The same thing applies to sex but the pleasure is far more significant, which is why it tends to be the thing that leads people to have very disharmonious/bad lives. It's important to err towards restraint because there is so much pleasure involved you can very easily fall into the hole of being blinded by the pleasure and disregard how this function relates to the harmony of all the other functions. A proper use of a human function keeps in mind the extent to which it can impact your ability to use your functions harmoniously, and in the longer term live a good/beautiful life. Part of that is rooted in the sort of fundamental understand of what that function is for, and how it relates to the other powers. For nutrition it's obvious, and I would say for the sexual functions it is as well but with technology and social engineering it's just easier to be blinded to it. The point of the sexual functions, and why they are so pleasurable, is so you can have kids and be deeply bonded to your partner so you can actually raise them well. The pleasure isn't accidental or evil, it's important, but it needs to be viewed in that context of a human as a whole. Without that pleasure it seems fair to think humans would have a much harder time procreating and staying together as couples, and seeing that you can see what the most sort of beautiful usage of that function is. A couple coming together, using that to become more deeply bonded and integrated as a couple, and that bearing fruit and leading to a new life is very beautiful and leads to a wonderful life if done in accord with the other human functions. (Ie. making sure you make decisions, and choose a person that also permits that harmony). Things like birth control, and other technologies just obscure that and with intentional social engineering/propaganda keep people thinking only about base immediate sense pleasure, not considering what leads to a good life, and often just totally disintegrating as human beings. By convincing ourselves we can alter the function and it's purpose, and use technology to obscure it's true purpose, we open ourselves to be blinded by the pleasure and lose the ability to even intellectually understand what the purpose is of that function in the first place. With that lost the ability to be a good person and live a beautiful life becomes extremely difficult, which is why we see so much horror and abuse and other things being so widespread now. Just the intentional manipulation of that one function hugely disrupts the human intellectual ability to act morally, and like I said it's so important to err towards restraint. All of advertising and social engineering wants you to be living in that moment to moment sense pleasure mode and most of our society is designed to fire that up in you. So yeah sexual restraint is very good and important, it's not suppressing a function, but rather ensuring you are able to use that function in the best and most beautiful way.

>>38431 >That applies to hindus, machineans, and some other neoplatonic derived occult stuff. Hinduism is pretty sexually restrictive for everyone, I don't know where you got the idea that it would be anything at all like the Dionysian mystery religions.

>>38421 >Birth control made chastity and obsolete virtue Virtue: a good or useful quality of a thing. What makes chastity a "good or useful" quality? Well its opposite, promiscuity, only has vacuous ends. It is pleasure that hollows one out. By sticking to chastity, one has better chances of more profitable ventures. Even if birth control lowers the stakes of promiscuity, it doesn't remove the rest of its consequences. Those who failed to be chaste are condemned to suffering the consequences: Loneliness, emotional distance/pain, and lowering their dating pool & those they associate with if they want to play "the game" Thus, chastity still retains its label of "virtue" – the consequences reveal as such to this day. Virtue for the sake of virtue–in the lens of morality–makes no sense. It's important to understand why things are labelled as virtue, such as in the case of chastity. It may have made it "obsolete" to the naive, but consequences exist regardless of one's foresight. The consequences are real, and we shall witness them together.

Red flags >born again christian >fat >fat mother >watches reality tv/media >excessive dates >princess syndrome >worked/works in army/police(both are control freaks) >excessive skin exposure >fat friends >loud/obnoxious friends >activist >hair is dyed an unnatural color(indicates emotional maturity/stability of a perpetual teenager) >divorced >divorced parents >smoker >goes/went clubbing >bar goer >messy room >junkie >tattoos >room/apartment is filled with gifts/mementos from previous relationships >bisexual >has kids >hairy armpits >beard/mustache >absent father >sex worker or history of >bitchy attitude >excessive/petty arguments >nasally/annoying voice >drug user whether recreational or medical, both are expensive and a liability Yellow flags >social media >college educated in the west >religious >family history of diseases(depends on severity) >is/was a state ward >eats fast food Green flags >dresses modestly >puts down her phone when talking >tom boy(actual tomboys carry their own weight) >virgin >doesnt wear makeup >clean hygiene >polite >grew up in a village >can cook(guys need this too) >reciprocates in conversation >initiates conversation >works out

>>38450 >>puts down her phone when talking If she even owns a phone, you already blew it.

>>38451 amish anon why u lying

>>38450 More red flags >breathes >drins water >has a mother and father, possibly alive >wears clothes in public >has to defecate and urinate regulay (at least once a day) >expresses her needs using language >needs food to survive >also needs shelter and a place to sleep >is an emotional human being >possibly even part of a culture >has friends >has family >expects to be treated with respect >is not a 2D anime girl

>>38469 Unless you're a genuine chad or a genuine cückold (you're not) why would you ever waste your precious time with a non-2D girl?

>>38469 FEMOID/MENTALLY CASTRATED MALE DETECTED also >expects to be treated with respect the original cardinal sin

This thread is cancer. Femoids, chads, incels etc. did anyone read OP's post? No incel soykaf.

>>38489 This poster is a glitterboy. no advice given did the retard read OP's post? No cunting about

>>38450 cringe kys the fact that you had to type all this out like youre some special snowflake when its clear u have no shot at any real women makes u gigacringe not even exacringepedocringeterracrnige

>>38494 r o a s t i e s got t o a s t i e s LMAO bitches actually love me sorry not sorry try harder heres some music to chill, jill

The only good advice for getting a relationship in America is exterminate the Jews. Things were basically perfect for the average man before the 1940s. As soon as Jews started invading our country, they began their crafting their scheme to genocide Whites by creating feminism as well as interracial porn/commercials. Now the Jews have all the best jobs while us poor Whites are stuck doing manual labor, if we can get a job at all. Take me for example. I am tall, strong, 149 IQ White man... yet I'm still living at home and stuck in the Jewish welfare trap. The Palestinians are lucky because at least they can fight back due to not having any Jewdeochristian ethics. You are already doing everything right OP. It is the Jews who are wrong.

>>38504 >doctrines of ethnical superiority >calls for extermination and genocide >dehumanization of other peoples >inability to tolerate and coexist with other peoples Jews and whites are the exact same. Both are a cancer on the world. No wonder western christian countries (those where germanic tribes conquered and adopted christianity, a cosmology of jewish origins) are exactly the ones openly supporting the genocide of the Palestinian people.

>>38505 I wouldn't mind Jews at all, but they have been kicked out of 109 countries (look it up) because they keep using subversive methods to genocide other races. At least now the mask is off and they're just blowing up hospitals.

>>38505 Every body of people see themselves as superior. You can call this human nature. The religion you are part of is the right one, your tribe/kingdom/horde/nation/ethnostate is the best one. It is extremely rare for whites to make a genocide, while Asian, African and South American history are full of them. African history is basically only made of genocides. Aaaand, you are accusing the most open, most multicultural societies in histories, ones where intolerance except for the native is illegal and punished, ones where tolerance have become a religion to not be able to tolerate and coexist with other people. You would be surprised, the specific ethno/religious you are talking about think and behave the same way no matter where they are. >>38506 110: Guatemala. 111: Israel.

>>38505 You just described every single ethnicity though? And then advocated for a removal of specific ethnicities. Are you not cognizant enough to see how perfectly ironic that is? >"I wish we could just kill all the people who don't think like me." Wash, rinse, repeat, since before 'white people' even had civilizations or the means to perpetrate your claims: Humanity itself is culpable. And until we dominate mankind ala Huxley, this a human problem is unrestricted by race or creed. Grow up, nigger.

>>38506 On that note, some African countries are already expelling their european invaders, and it is about time America did the same, at least to chase them back to their original thirteen colonies from where they expanded and removed so many from their lands.

>>38504 >unironically claiming Jews are the only reason you can't get a gf or a job D-do people as dumb as you actually use lainchan now? If you're a troll, well done I guess

>>38512 m8 the average IQ of a lainchan user is like 80. /drg/ is full of repeat threads asking "how should I take acid? How do I get acid? What is a 'dark net'?" /hum/ is full of incels and storm user mongoloids, the most popular thread on this board is just a place where depressed teenagers talk about how nobody else has ever been as depressed as them and where aforementioned storm users try to recruit them. This website is only worth visiting for the tech centered boards. Rest is irredeemable garbage.

>>38517 This is true, I have to respect chaotic good trolls like you for calling it out, I fear. I used to think this site was "deep' when I was younger lol

>>38517 They vice, vaccinate, and circumcise.

>>38517 only reason its that high is because my iq is over 9000