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Anyone else sad about the fact that it's unlikely these protests will even change anything? China is just going to wait until people lose momentum and stop caring, and then quietly continue to erode Hong Kong's freedoms. "One Country, Two Systems" is apparently supposed to end in 2047 as well.

Ehh, China is based, Mao is the best. I like the irony of how amazing Mao is. There are even pictures of him in waiting lines for national parks and stuff. So I always go, MAO BEST LEADER WHOLE WORLD. I was in China for 60 days, it's based. I'm going to learn Mandarin it's so cool.

The real revolution will not be televised. And remember, ancient Egypt never lost a war. This is only for the western eyes, it is well known that west was pushing for destruction of china and last thing they can cling on is hong kongs "independence".

>Anyone else sad about the fact that it's unlikely these protests will even change anything? At this point, I don't even have any emotional attachment to what's happening in Hong Kong, in other words, I'm beyond sad and I decided that being sad is a waste of energy. The current international situation is not better. Apparently, the post-Coldwar world order is starting to collapse violently. I’m not here to say that the system is just, of course it is not, but if it's really happening, its collapse is not something can be taken without consequences (even if you are someone who welcomes it because you want to use it as a chance to start a world revolution). Some signs of the 1930s is here. Movements like "Occupy Wall Street" is pretty much dead & buried. Authoritarian, populist rhetoric and/or strongman is taking over politics worldwide. Xi is becoming (or at least legitimized) the President of Life. Both Russia and the United States have quit the INF Treaty and started a new arms race. Also the US Empire finally kidnapped Julian Assange. And while there's surely a lot of hypocrisy here, but when people started seeing the concept of "democracy" or "human rights" as something completely bogus and laughable (and for sure "the terrorists should be killed"), on the other hand we have megacorps like Google and Microsoft combined with the military-industrial complex developing automated ("AI") mass surveillance facilities like facial recognition systems, it's definitely not a good combo. And back to the main topic, the popular support of Hong Kong in the mainland is between negligible (if the censorship is not working at its full capabilities) and nonexistence (if the censorship is fully on). In a sense, the very existence of Hong Kong right now is at the wrong side of the history. In other words, just think everything in terms of an anime, Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Hong Kong is "Dominion of Fezzan", an autonomous region within the Galactic Empire. It is soon going to be annexed by the Empire in the next few episodes. If the history is going to this direction, resistance is futile. But 30 years later, there may going to be an opposite situation. There's no right or wrong, it's just typical human behavior and alternating history tendencies. But is it? Are there some other possibilities to break out of this boring loop and have something exciting? Because this is Lainchan, naturally I would ask: Could the ever increasing power of computation creates some disruption? Maybe. For example, the Assassination Politics [1] envisioned by Jim Bell in the 90s - a political assassination market for murdering politicians, powered by cryptography and anonymous digital currency, can be implemented in the near-future. Also, in an analysis of darknet market transactions, @TheRealSmuggler argued [2] that cheap technologies enabled things like wireless beacons and automated drones, these developments will lead to a breakdown of control and regulation over low weight, low volume goods. Continue thinking, what is possible if we combine: 4G/5G mobile internet, anonymous messaging, messaging bots, anonymous and untraceable digital currencies, strong end-to-end encryption, GPS, cheap electronics, 3D printed mechanics, cheap drones - both short distance multicopters and long distance fixed wing, visual processing for navigation, and lots of code? The black markets are upon us. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20190110213308/http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/jimbellap.htm [2] http://opaque.link/post/dropgang/

>>11859 >https://web.archive.org/web/20190110213308/http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/jimbellap.htm This is fascinating, mostly because it sounds so plausible. And yeah, it's only fair that people could (and should) start using their own technology to battle governments' corruption and sinister use of technology. And wasn't there an assassination attempt on Venezuela's president with drones? Shit like that could only be the beginning - we're starting to approach peak cyberpunk.

>>11861 Assassination Politics has its own problems. It was discussed extensively in the 90s Cypherpunk era in the mailing list, to some it was just a fantasy, to others it was technologically feasible, but practically it cannot get the popular support it needed. And today we know the extreme technical fragility of anonymity: one 0day and you are dead. Also, I don't fully trust libertarianism and I find the author's NAP stance is kind of naive. And we haven't seen any assassination yet. >Shit like that could only be the beginning - we're starting to approach peak cyberpunk. This is my point as well. I posted it anyway because it is a important example of how computing may shape history. Food of thoughts, after all. From China with Love.

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/06/article/big-data-deployed-against-hong-kongs-leaderless-movement/ >The jury is out on whether a protest movement driven by de-centralized millennials can beat deep analytics and biometric surveillance

>>11859 Thank you for citing your sources- even when they seem self evident. You are the type of Lain this internet needs more of.

>>11850 >Anyone else sad about the fact that it's unlikely these protests will even change anything? I've been in protests worldwide. I was in chanology, Arab Spring, the student riots in Chile, and others. The only thing common among every protest and movement I've ever been in is a bunch of people who blast out of the gate like a horse fly bit them saying that the protests won't change anything. They may or they may not, but people should realize that there's no accountability in the end for the people who say that, and the success of your movement will never depend on them, so just don't listen. It's just fud.

No. The whole planet is giving China the stink eye now, because of them. The power dynamic is crazy. China centralized and built up all the power they could in the one party government during socialism, and they've been using it to keep the people like ant drones for decades, but now there's just too many people to kill quietly.

>>11915 I don't think that's true at all, I think mainstream normal people don't even know the protests are taking place. And when they do, they don't see them as new or significant or indicative of anything except China being China. Which, having way more information on the issue than the average person, is my opinion as well. I think it's tragic and until the people realize that the oligarchs in their government are only serving themselves and revolt, this will continue.

>>11935 > I think mainstream normal people don't even know the protests are taking place. It comes up on the news every day here in Canada but, > when they do, they don't see them as new or significant or indicative of anything except China being China. ...this is probably also true (except for the many Chinese who live here).

Reminder not to read the South China Morning Post for coverage - it's been pushing "soft" pro-China propaganda ever since it was bought by Alibaba Group three years ago.

>>11882 >The jury is out on whether a protest movement driven by de-centralized millennials can beat deep analytics and biometric surveillance I think calling this "protest" decentralized is kind of the biggest misconception. Another common saying is "the net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it", also a bullshit quote taken of the context, the "net" in the quote was the UUCP architecture of Usenet, not every "net" in general. I think it's important to realize that there are no inherent properties of a "net" itself, it totally depends on the protocols and services we deploy on it. Yeah, thanks to the web, it enables grassroot movements like this one, so it's decentralized in this sense. But simultaneously, literally all the main activities are coordinated using Telegram with phone numbers (probably linked to IDs), and guess what? "The authorities arrested the administrator of a Telegram chat group with 20,000 members, even though he was at his home miles from the protest site". [1] It looks like a paradox, but often a social movement is only able to gain its "critical mass" on large, centralized platforms as a "decentralized" command & control to mobilize the people, it can be 4chan (Chanology), Facebook (Arab Spring) or Telegram (Hong Kong). Their success (I don't think "Arab Spring" produced a favorable result, I refer to the success of communication) was simply the inability and unwillingness of the regime to shut the platform down and to start arresting people en masse due to the fear of escalation and limited technical capabilities. The deep analytics today is making the world a different place: what if you can reliably identify all the critical nodes in a social network and knock them down? Back in the 80s-90s there were a lot of good thinkers who pointed out the endless possibilities of the net, but today I've yet to see good articles and thinkers that provides some insights toward a suitable strategy for the future based on our experience so far. I know Cory Doctorow has written something related, but didn't analyze them in-depth. Perhaps they cannot be immediately known, just like some ideas back in the days are seen as great, only by today. Or maybe I missed something, if you have some links, please share. But here's what I thought: inspirited by cyberpunk literature, the common attitude is "escapism": use cryptography, use P2P networks, use air-gap, etc to establish strict opsec procedures to avoid detection and identification. But due to the reason I mentioned, "the need of a large, centralized platform", it doesn't scale. And from what I've read, some hackers are fine with it. And yes, works like these are fundamentally important. But a workable strategy in the future may be a mix of two: creating a set of robust opsec procedures for those who heavily involved in, but the platform for mass organization doesn't need to be highly confidential and should focus on usability as a communication medium in case when someone pulls the plug. I remember Firechat generated a lot of buzz in the heyday of protests, there is also a free software project called Briar. But after these years, I rarely hear them in the news. More projects is needed. >>11935 >The power dynamic is crazy. [...] now there's just too many people to kill quietly. >>11938 >I don't think that's true at all, I think mainstream normal people don't even know the protests are taking place. And when they do, they don't see them as new or significant or indicative of anything except China being China. Which, having way more information on the issue than the average person, is my opinion as well. I think it's tragic and until the people realize that the oligarchs in their government are only serving themselves and revolt, this will continue. "China" is not a single entity. Both sides are true in a sense. >>11935 is true because: on the social media, I've seen the leftists who support Hong Kong due to civil rights, and leftists who object the movement because they believe it would only increase U.S power in Asia in the long run which doesn't serve people's best interests, or because they oppose to HK's laissez-faire system. I've also seen centralists who argue that the autonomy of Hong Kong should be preserved. I've seen rightists who advocate strong centralized controls, and nationalists who believe the protest is huge conspiracy manipulated by the U.S, and says protesters are payed (not too different from the republicans who believe payed protesters lead Anti-Trump protests), or say that it's gonna be another Arab Spring failure at best, the list goes on... And remember, nearly all these people on the social media I mentioned have good access to multiple sources of information. If the government starts to kill people, at least ten million people would know overnight. >>11938 is true because: the majority opinion on the social network ("mainstream normal people", again, remember most people on the social media have good access to multiple sources of information) seems to be: (1) the protesters are manipulated, and/or outlaws, and (2) suppressing the protest, whether it's just or unjust, serves the best interests of the nation and people. And now, the social media represents only part (40%?) of the urban population, and perhaps 5% of the entire country. Then who are the "mainstream normal people"? The working-class from country-side who spend 90% of the time in factories and construction sides? The office workers ranging from business drones to medium-income IT workers who recently protested the overtime work schedule in the industry? Urban elites? So clearly we should have an complete understanding the power dynamics to make any meaningful prediction. But it's so complicated and beyond my knowledge. I'd rather try observing the main tendency from news headlines and spend most of my time on following the advance in side-channel attacks of out-of-order CPUs or something. >>11967 >Reminder not to read the South China Morning Post for coverage - it's been pushing "soft" pro-China propaganda ever since it was bought by Alibaba Group three years ago. Why not? SCMP is biased but it's still a reasonable source that has useful information, unlike something like Russia's Sputnik news which also pushes hard propaganda with facts and fictions indistinguishable. I opened SCMP, and clicked random links on Trade War, >Lessons from an old trade war: China can learn from the Japan experience [2] >China to unveil new measure to protect tech firms targeted in trade war [3] Is it pro-China "soft" propaganda? Yes. Does it have useful information? Yes, it gives a good summary on what the people in China are thinking about. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/13/world/asia/hong-kong-telegram-protests.html [2] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3014531/lessons-old-trade-war-china-can-learn-japan-experience [3] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3013690/china-unveil-new-measure-protect-tech-firms-targeted-trade-war

It's been really interesting watching these protests. There haven't been, to my knowledge, any protests in which public perception to the outside world was a main concern to both sides of the conflict. Both protesters and police are recording as much of the event as possible in hopes of spinning it in their favor to the wider world. Youtube, I've noticed, yields few results when searching for live Hong Kong coverage. And most of the coverage is given by the South China Morning Post, whose videos have overwhelmingly pro-CCP comments left by suspicious accounts. Keep in mind this is a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party Make of that what you will.

One of the Youtube channels that has been covering the protests live claimed that they found it strange that the CCP did not put up any police resistance to the protesters storming the legislature building. Yesterday was the anniversary of the handover of Hong Kong from the British to the CCP, and protesters where trying to sabotage the commemorative event. Only now after the event have the protesters managed (where allowed?) to get inside the building where the event was held. I think this was a deliberate strategy from the police force, because now a lot of the Hong Kong coverage is along the lines of "...Protesters Vandalize Legislature" and so forth. It is also not uncommon for governments or bodies in opposition to protests in general, to plant their own members among the protesters in order to incite radicalism and violence. As I said in my previous post, watching these protests is really interesting if you keep all of these things in mind. The whole thing is happening under an atmosphere of paranoia due to all of these factors. Not even somebody on the ground could know what is truly going on.

>>11979 This soykaf's crazy man, thank u 4 the info.

>>11979 >>11981 >Both protesters and police are recording as much of the event as possible in hopes of spinning it in their favor to the wider world. Yes, all sides are trying to capture as much video footage as they can, in order to be able to set a narrative to their favor by selectively using it. >Keep in mind this is a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party Just add a side-note: Chinese is a language of which you can easily make new words creatively, but the actual thing is not as unfamiliar as its word-by-word English translation. 50 Cent Party is better known as "shi11s" in English, and today, also known as "bots". Back to the heydays of textboards in China, it was common among liberal-leaning posters to claim that all government apologists on a forum are members of 50-cent party, attack your opponent of being a shi11 in an argument, sometimes it's true, but often, many falsely assume they're more omnipresent and powerful than what they actually are - witch-hunt. Later, the nationalist-leaning posters started calling everyone who attacks nationalism are under the command by the "U.S-pennies party" (often not its literal meaning, but it assumes the poster is somehow benefited personally by the ideology) and some adopted a similar narrative. Yes, just like those on the /p0l/ board on *chan [1][2], or accusations of Russian bots [3], etc. The word starts losing its meaning over time, and today it can be used as a general term for any vocal pro-government nationalist, or even as a self-description. According to my observation with supportive evidence from this research paper "How the Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction, not Engaged Argument" [4], the main task of those shi11s is reducing the signal-noise ratio on online platforms by (1) making the pro-government narrative louder by spamming a lot of posts and comments, and (2) creating pointless debates to distract people from the actual issue. I don't think they are more powerful than that. For example, those YouTube comments you see. In the age of social media, all you need is a group of social media influencer, they set a narrative. Then the passionate grassroot nationalists will spend all-day posting online, writing articles and cite sources to do the rest of the work for you, finally, the effect of political polarization comes handy, you get a lot of reposts, retweets, and comments with strong opinions from ordinary people. Similar to how Twitter works. BTW, the word filter almost made my comment self-referential.

>>12108 Hilariously, it was the word filter before, now comes the spam filter. Then how can we talk about neutral observations. Well, I guess not everyone can refrain themselves from engaging flamewars, it was done for a good reason anyway, I remember /soc/. So let me try again... [3] https://www.vox.com/2018/10/19/17990946/twitter-russian-trolls-bots-election-tampering [4] https://gking.harvard.edu/files/gking/files/50c.pdf Decode the following Base64 to uncover 8chan links. WzFdIGh0dHBzOi8vOGNoLm5ldC9wb2wvcmVzLzEzMDg3ODQzLmh0bWwKClsyXSBodHRwczovLzhjaC5uZXQvcG9sL3Jlcy8xMDkzOTI2OS5odG1sCg==

These protestors are idiots who literally want British colonialism back. Why would any sane person want them to win?

>>11910 Protestors are, by definition, losing. Otherwise, they wouldn't be protesting. Winners don't protest. They won. The protestors are likewise unaccountable. Remember how net neutrality was going to end the internet in the US and you would get tiered internet plans and pay extra for access to popular free websites? Yeah, nothing happened. But who is holding all those protestors accountable who caused chaos and strife? The ones with ties to al-qaeda and making death threats and racial slurs against FCC chairman. The ones who brainwashed a large portion of the left leaning population who still believe to this day that the end of the internet is surely just around the corner. That Comcast and AT&T are just biding their time for evil, unspecified reasons. HK belongs to China now. Many people haven't really accepted that, but it's the new normal for them. Protests are a good way to ruin your future social credit and get hurt or in trouble. It puts a big target on you.

>>12127 >Winners don't protest. Protesters did win this round in a big way. Check the latest. >>12116 Two million people on the street do not all agree with bringing back colonial rule, I can assure you of that. Many would probably choose it over the authoritarian late capitalism that some mistakenly label "communist" though.

>>12116 The protests have been over for a while now, but I'd just like to point out that the CCP, during the protests announced multiple times that CIA agents were inciting the protests. I don't think it is ridiculous to think that the CCP would push this as well as the idea that the protesters are mainly people who want to return to british rule, in an effort to discredit the protests in and outside Hong Kong. I got my coverage of the event from a Youtube channel called "China Uncensored", which is, I admit, a biased source. From what I could gather from their coverage though, it seemed like the protests were remarkably peaceful. The taking of the parliament building and it's subsequent vandalization (which included the hanging of the old British Hong Kong flag) seemed suspicious. The riot police that were protecting the building essentially abandoned it after the commemoration ceremony for the handover was finished, and afterward protesters got in.

>>12116 I'd prefer being part of a rabbit-toothed man's colony over part of the chinese hive-mind any day of the week...

>>12165 No doubt the CIA did exactly what they said they did though.

>>12169 No doubt? But there's no proof. I think there's plenty of reason to doubt. The CCP would just publish massive posters with random pictures of white guys with words along the lines of "WATCH OUT FOR THE CIA" and whatnot. I'm not saying that wasn't a possibility. But given the sort of propaganda driven protests that these became, it would not be ridiculous to think that those were just efforts from the CCP to undermine the protests.

>>12171 What do you think the CIA does? There are buildings, a budget, and a payroll, do you think they sell baked goods? They do insurgencies in other countries and only a fool would think they had no hand in this.

>>12197 I think you give them too much credit. It was easy 50 years ago to influence the politics of banana republics around the world to benefit USA interests. Hong Kong and the PRC are another matter though. Hong Kong is an urban area with pseudo political independence and it's own economic interests while the PRC is a huge sophisticated organization with it's own intelligence branch that is particularly wary of possible USA meddling in their affairs furthermore they are aware that singling them out as scapegoats can bolster nationalist fervor/paranoia in their population. I'm not saying it's impossible. There just really isn't anything (to my knowledge) that outright connects them to the protests or suggests they might have been connected to the protests. Your suspicion seems entirely based on their past actions.

>>12204 I was gonna say something similar. The CIA's interference in Latin America is well documented but we're talking about countries with the population of what? Michigan? Pennsylvania? China is a very a large and inert mass.

>>12211 I mean they definitely pulled on the tiger's nuts during the cold war with the Soviets as well, so it's not like they've never done ops against a large and sophisticated nation before. But as far as overtly capping a national leader and putting a crony with Exxon-Mobile's brand burned into his asscheek, yeah. They can't really do that with massive countries just yet, unless the most audacious conspiracy theories are to be believed.

Anyone else think the popular theory on these white-shirted thugs make no sense? Why would the government hire them to indiscriminately beat protesters and bystanders, all while wearing distinctive clothing? If anything, this has shifted public opinion on the protesters' side more. I think this might've actually been organized by some pro-democracy group in order to damage the government's image. If someone wanted to do the opposite, then they would've disguised them all as protesters and have them beat up random people as a false flag.

>>12197 That still doesn't prove soykaf. Just because they probably were involved it doesn't mean they actually were involved

>>12259 It could always just be some random gang of Chinese loyalists, totally unaffiliated with the government and not receiving orders. There's always the possibility it's just the uncoordinated action of some dummies who don't know what their best interests really are. But I have no way of knowing. Just saying.

and what are you fuarrrkshits talking about the whiteshirts, i thought they're blackshirts who were filmed changing their shirts?

>>12260 hey glownigger, two minutes of research show you the cia gonnection. I'll show you another one: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8555142/Wikileaks-no-bloodshed-inside-Tiananmen-Square-cables-claim.html https://www.rt.com/op-ed/163872-china-tiananmen-square-june4/ Pic related, the uncropped tank man pic with the burned out tank.

>>12265 s/burned out tank/burned out truck/

>>12259 You assume anyone gives a fuarrrk. China's been fuarrrking up religious&ethnic minorities in the last decade while the west just watched. They have no reason to be subtle. They know outside outrage masturbation on social media nobody will do a thing about it.

Pointing lasers to prevent facial recognition

Its just an extradition law... hongkong has their own extradition laws. Why the fuarrrk protest this?

>>12384 Trying to avoid a slippery slope would be my guess.

>>12384 It's just a tax law... the americans have their own tax laws. Why the fuarrrk protest this?

No, I couldn't care less about hong kong. China is based, I care far more about technological progress and working towards a transhumanist society than ""individual freedoms""

>>12563 You say that, but what happens when the Chinese government does something you don't like? What happens then? Individual freedoms matter because they prevent the government from abusing its power and making bad decisions. In a system where freedoms aren't respected, it only takes so long before a soykafty ruler or group of rulers comes in and fuarrrks everything up. See the Soviet Union for details.

>>12563 A communist police state will not be conducive to technological progress.

>>12632 I'm sure it could be, but the things it invented wouldn't be to our liking. It can also steal ideas from the rest of the world and reapply them.

Remember lads, when attending a protest regardless of which side you are on, be sure to wear either a gas mask or an oxygen mask with oxygen tank. Not only do they protect against pepper spray and tear gas, they also help protect your privacy so that your employer will not wuss out and force you to resign.

It goes back to the very beginning, with the building of the dikes... For that you needed a strong ruler, and a centralized state, and if the state was to be central, why not bend the whole country into a mirror image of it (and then the state into the mirror image of the country)? Of course there were exceptions, and historical accidents that made things different for periods of time, but the overall pattern remained, and eventually the idea that there could be two states began to fade away. And a system is the real function and power of a state. Apparently during the Second Chinese Civil War, the majority of the civilian population would have been okay with two countries. The even more preferable alternative, though, was that the Communists and Nationalists would intermingle, tempering some of each party's negative traits. This was not to be (the Cold War was already beginning, the Nationalists were incompetent and the Communists fanatical). So it seems very unlikely that there will be two countries or two systems, but there is an opportunity here to make a better China and a better world. It will be ignored. Such is the way of things.

Is anyone in contact with the protesters?

>>12662 An oxygen mask with tank? Like a fuarrrking SCUBA diver? Or a hospital patient? I have never seen a protester from any cause, in any year, dragging along a fuarrrking oxygen tank. You... You need to stop typing.

All of these protests are meant to look like grassroots organization, but it's not. They're fueled by a bunch of non profits. All (the good guys) have to do is put money in the right places, and the gears have been greased This happened in Ukraine and now its happening in Hong Kong. Here's a question I'd like you to ask yourself. Why does there need to be a standing nonprofit to fuel people taking to the streets? Wouldn't they just do that naturally if they felt the same way?

>>13077 >hey guys, here's a baseless accusation with no evidence whatsoever >also here's a question based on that very baseless accusation

>>13080 >>13078 Go to page 2

>>12662 Gas masks don't work. Glove up, suck a lemon, and get the fuarrrk up to the front. Remember when you throw the canisters back they're hot when they're spewing the tear gas, throw them away from your bodyand way, way, way up over everyone's heads.

>>13077 >Here's a question I'd like you to ask yourself. Why does there need to be a standing nonprofit to fuel people taking to the streets? Wouldn't they just do that naturally if they felt the same way? Because last time civilians resisted the Chinese government they got crushed by tanks. So of course they have outside support this time. What is your point anyway? Obviously there are foreign state and corporate interests in having a section of mainland China not 100% coocked by the nightmare totalitarian China government. That doesn't mean that freedom is not beneficial to Hong Kong citizens as well.

>>13078 Funny how people who yell "source needed" scatter away when one is provide Almost Like they have no intention of having a meaningful and honest discussion and are there to fulfill some kind of propaganda

>>13078 >>13158 Which is Also further more proven by your meme type od discussioning with greentexts

>>13081 Ukrainian here. That pdf is absolute nonsense as proof for the argument that you try to make. RF has spent countless hundreds of millions of rubles financing separatists in Donbass yet you purposefully avoid mentioning it because you have double standards and when USA does something it is evil but when bootlicker ejaculate dream RF does the same, it's acceptable

>>13097 I've seen photos but can't find them now, of black bloc kids in Quebec returning cans to the riot police with hockey sticks. Very Canadian you might say.

>>13160 Your point? The donbass uprising was funded by Russia, maidan was funded by the US and EU.

>>13157 >Because last time civilians resisted the Chinese government they got crushed by tanks. Your version of events in Tiananmen square is a hoax. Read the links in this thread: https://twitter.com/city_affairs/status/1135444450103177216 >So of course they have outside support this time. So your protest fails, then the obvious solution is to get the CIA to help you? That seems like a pretty good way to doom your movement in the long run actually. Since it proves you're a traitor to your country, and since the CIA behaves only in its own interests.

>>13165 >Your version of events in Tiananmen square is a hoax. Your version of events in Tiananmen square is state propaganda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests#Death_toll >So your protest fails, then the obvious solution is to get the CIA to help you? No, it's the other way around. If you want to mobilize the people against a violent oppressive government then you probably need some outside influence to help. That doesn't mean the movement is fake. >That seems like a pretty good way to doom your movement in the long run actually. Since it proves you're a traitor to your country, and since the CIA behaves only in its own interests. Traitor to what country? Hong Kong is independent and want to stay independent. Just because the CIA might be involved doesn't make it a zero sum game. HK citizens don't want soykafty chinese government. Foreign countries don't want soykafty chinese government. Business don't want soykafty chinese government. Everybody wins.

>>12271 Oh soykaf this is becoming cyberpunk af

>>12271 >You assume anyone gives a fuarrrk. China's been fuarrrking up religious&ethnic minorities in the last decade while the west just watched. The difference is Hong Kong provides economic and technological value to the modern world. They are not 70IQ descendants of Jihadi rape gangs who tried to invade China all through the middle ages. There is a rational reason to care about one and not the other.

>>13169 >wikipedia disinfo. >CIA apologism >Hong Kong's not China!!! Let's see. Almost everyone in Hong Kong speaks Chinese, is a Chinese ethnicity, is from mainland, and is separated by a single river from mainland... The distinction between Hong Kong and China is an artifact of British colonialism. Hong Kong is China. to be honest I know that there are actual spooks and MIC employees who post here, it's just part of the crowd that this site attracts. If you're not one of the freethinkers on here (and you're not, with this bizarre dogmatic adherence to the State Department line) then you're probably one of them. Just know history won't look kindly on your work, and you may live to regret it.

>>13176 >If you're not one of the freethinkers on here (and you're not, with this bizarre dogmatic adherence to the State Department line) You're the one enthusiastically shllling for a violent totalitarian government for no apparent reason. >Almost everyone in Hong Kong speaks Chinese ... Hong Kong is China. They speak Cantonese, the mainland speaks Mandarin. >The distinction between Hong Kong and China is an artifact of British colonialism More importantly Hong Kong had a free market economy while China was killing itself with Communism and is now a central banking and shipping hub on Asia with a higher gdp than most other countries combined. That means there is a lot of corporate interest in keeping Hong Kong out of the hands of the Chinese government. So yes, the protests are probably not 100% organic. But again, with China's human rights record, it's not necessarily a bad thing for Hong Kong citizens either. >everyone who disagrees with me is a spy Even Israel is not sad enough to pay for shllls on a dead imageboard like this.

>>13181 >violent totalitarian government Dude, you are brainwashed. >They speak Cantonese, the mainland speaks Mandarin. Both Cantonese and Mandarin are Chinese languages spoken on the mainland. >More importantly Hong Kong had a free market economy while China was killing itself with Communism Chinese life expectancy went from 40 years to 60 years under Mao. One year per year of Mao's leadership. A real national suicide huh. >is now a central banking and shipping hub on Asia with a higher gdp than most other countries combined Hong Kong is actually losing most of its relevance to China's economy now. >>everyone who disagrees with me is a spy >Even Israel is not sad enough to pay for shllls on a dead imageboard like this. Sure, maybe you do this on your time off.

>>13182 >Dude, you are brainwashed. Attack the argument not the person https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem We already covered Tiananmen Square. Of course China's enemies want you to believe 10.000 died and China wants you to believe nobody died and they just asked politely for the protesters to go away quietly. A rational person would conclude the truth is somewhere in the middle. This isn't an isolated case though, China has a long history is torturing and disappearing their own citizens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_dissidents Leading more into the totalitarian argument, China is the closest thing the world has to a police state https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/13/china-cctv-bbc-reporter/ With a social credit system to control every aspect of citizen's lives down to who you hang out with and what you look at on the internet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System Which is already heavily censored https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_China The tl;dr is that the majority of Hong Kong citizens are probably very happy with the freedom and economic prosperity they have and don't want to lose it all under China's violent totalitarian government. If they did, then all they have to do is cross a river, right? >Chinese life expectancy went from 40 years to 60 years under Mao. One year per year of Mao's leadership. A real national suicide huh. Is that before or after they were eating their own babies to stay alive? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward#Consequences You should stop digging here and just be happy China has now moved on from Communism in everything but name and authoritarian spirit. >Hong Kong is actually losing most of its relevance to China's economy now. If it's so irrelevant why are they fighting over it? >Sure, maybe you do this on your time off. Like any good Lain no country in the world would ever give my security clearance.

>>13183 All of the stuff you linked is BS, and "totalitarian" is a BS category made up by liberals. >eating their own babies Made up. Listen to yourself. Nobody will eat their own baby. Jesus christ. >If it's so irrelevant why are they fighting over it? Because it's part of China.

>>13183 >Like any good Lain no country in the world would ever give my security clearance. People with security clearance post here.

>>13183 They lost it 20 years ago and it is like kicking dead whales down the beach, they don't want to be China. The kids who grew up with the Chinese don't want to be governed by them. They will upend Hong Kong. I think you overestimate how strong their parents will hold on to a status quo that's only been status quo for a couple of decades.

>>13189 Not him, but if you are going to make strong claims such as >All of the stuff you linked is BS, and "totalitarian" is a BS category made up by liberals. please either post sources or refrain from posting. They don't have to be perfect sources or anything, even state propaganda is a start. But blanket denial just derails the thread at best. Speaking of derailing, has anything heard any specific news from Hong Kong lately?

>>11851 Yeah censorship is awesome

>>13194 >please either post sources or refrain from posting. Why? All he's doing is undermining his own position with posts like >>13189

>>12259 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titushky The term derived from the surname of Vadym Titushko, antifascist and mixed martial artist who attacked journalists in 2013. He was sort of "thug for hire" for racketeering which was a usual thing for Ukraine at that time. I'm not aware whether there were similar government-hired agents provocateurs on previous "colored revolutions" in Egypt, Tunisia, Alger, but this sort of profession is a very old industrial society tradition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strikebreaker

>>11915 problem is wondering how the situation will defuse--it's not happening by itself

>>11850 Then all those protesters will end up as part of the whole generation Zen thing, maybe. Hey, at least Tiananmen square 2.0 didn't end up happening there as people thought it would >>11851 动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门

>>11851 >>11851 .50 has been deposited into your account.

>>17771 Damn, this thread is still up? Pretty sad that it turned out like my OP prediction. I would've liked to visit Hong Kong one day, before they turn it into Homogeneous Huawei Surveillance Zone #47492. Hopefully the people in danger are able to emigrate and somehow the CCP collapses due to their slowing economy, debt and coronavirus.