Pets

What are your thoughts on pets, Lain? Do you own any? Or do you think they're a waste of time and effort? Are they compatible with the cyberpunk lifestyle, or do we have to go it alone?

>>11445 not sure if trolling or a kid... but to answer your question, no you don't have to go alone... there's lots of works having pets as the protagonist's companions.

>>11446 >>11449 Sorry, that was corny wording I chose while sleep deprived. I was trying to say: >People here don't seem to like staying in one place for long (digital nomads, couch surfers, and other such things) for various reasons. Moving around with a pet is tough. >If you're ultra paranoid, something like a dog has you going in and out at predictable intervals. If you need to be out for a bit, you'll have to let someone to go into your home to take care of them or pay for some expensive kennel for them to stay. >Animals are codependent and require constant upkeep, which is not cheap. >If you own a lot of sensitive electronics, animals might damage them. Of course, pets have obvious benefits, too. Dogs are a security system that can't be compromised. Cats and reptiles can eat vermin. And, of course, they provide a source of companionship and emotional stability that can't intentionally manipulate or betray you. So I meant to say "does the average paranoid information age digital man keep any tiny friends in their life or is keeping your home to yourself the more reasonable option?"

>>11450 I have a cockroach I have named Charles. He assists me by keeping my excess skin cells, hair follicles and other sloughings in check around my house. Since he feeds on my various emissions, and is able to acquire moisture from the air I breathe out, he is virtually zero maintenance and is still quite helpful. As I have started providing him with treats like candy and beef jerky, he has become more trusting of me and is currently sitting on my desk while I type this. Charles is an american cockroach. Specifically, Periplaneta americana.

>>11451 You joke, but I do similar things with spiders. There's these big fellows who set up shop by my lamps. I leave the lamps on during the night, and in the morning, find they've caught a ton of more annoying pests. I wish they got more mosquitos, but we can't win them all.

>>11452 Usually every September there is a new black beetle living in my place, or two. They die after a few weeks but I like seeing them every year. The cat never fücks with them either for some reason.

>>11452 I am not joking. I am quite serious. Charles is a very real roach and he really does live in my house and hang with me from time to time. I really do feed him, and he really does seem to improve the cleanliness of the place.

>>11452 I even occasionally find him cleaning out the spaces between the keys on my keyboard of various crumbs and skin flakes.

ive had all sorts of pets throughout my life via family some really exotic or just weird. its not some cause i have but i personally think a majority of the time its cruel or sort of fuarrrked up. like i remember how my dogs when id go to school would wait there all day just for me to come home doing almost nothing and even if they dont realize it that just seems like a fuarrrked up place to be. I remember when id do similar things with friends (id just sleep or do nothing and wait for a friend to text me) and that was such a soykafty sad thing to do to myself. that i did to myself but with dogs its kind of like they dont have or dont know of any other choice. i know at this point domestic dogs are basically bred to be dependent on humans, so i dont really think theres anything to do about it i just dont want to partake. im okay with cats and birds as long as you dont force them into a cage or something. just because those animals will just leave if they dont like it. like if you hit a dog it will still love you unconditionally, but you cant physically discipline a bird or cat it will just fuarrrk off. Even cats im kinda iffy about, I have a cat thats as old as I am, 22. We got another cat 5 years ago and they get along but that first cat is intensely jealous, which again just seems like an awful mental place for a cat to be. Its just weird how domestic pets actually develop mental illnesses and depression, and unlike us they dont really know how to deal with that. In the wild theyd have their own ways even if they were kind of brutal. but again this isnt really a belief i expect anyone else to adhere to and i dont really know what we could do. i feel like the fact that we treat people like pets is a bigger issue that needs to be solved before we could ever look at this. its not that pressing for me, i just probably wont get a pet except a cat maybe. its funny in video games with animal companions i always try to kill them not because i hate them but because i cant handle having to care for them and watch out for them when im playing it makes me sad. when i was a kid and my animals started dying in harvest moon i actually shut the game off and never played it again. i care a lot about animals and grew up with them, in some ways i relate to them better than people (which is funny because i hate people who say that). but all these reasons are why i avoid them too. It is funny to me how I can be totally monotone and flat and someone brings a dog in and suddenly im making voices and rolling on the ground with it like an idiot. i used to avoid looking people i liked in the eyes because i knew that dogs see it as a challenge and until I was 10 i just thought that applied to people too.

Here's my rule of thumb: if you want an animal as a pet, make sure they can survive on their own and you provide them with sufficient lifestyle. Don't get a husky in Egypt, for example. Aquariums/terrariums are a tedious thing to take care of imo, and pretty inhumane. Don't live in an apartment if you want anything other than random bugs as pets. Or if you do live in an apartment but still want/need a dog, make sure you get out more than twice a day with them. I still would not suggest a cat in the apartment. I have a dog. He is not kept on chain or in doors 24/7. He roams free, sometimes disappears during mating season. He is his own master, so to speak. Heck, I haven't even bothered training him and he learned from day one to not take nature calls in the house. He acts like a guard dog whenever a stranger passes by the house. Then again, living in sparsely populated area allows me to do this.

>>11457 as this poster ^ >>11458 i feel like this is generally a good philosophy if you do want to own a pet. I think if you do you need to make sure you are treating it with respect to the animal it is. This goes for food too, dogs dont eat peanut butter or sugar, and werent made to digest it (honestly humans shouldnt even eat sugar) so dont give it to them even if they like it. Birds dont live in cages so dont keep your bird in a cage, this might sound extreme like "well what so im just supposed to let it fly around my house and soykaf everywhere" and its kind of like yeah or dont own a bird. Deciding to get a pet should be considered a serious life decision with benefits and consequences, not a toy. It presents an interesting conundrum though because indoor pets do live way longer, and wouldnt many animals prefer this? I guess it depends on if you think being free is inherently important, and I do to a degree. I also just in general dont like the concept of nonage or that we ultimately know whats best for people or animals that behave "irrationally".

>>11459 >indoor pets do live way longer This is true, but I will argue that longer life is not equal a good, quality life (same goes for humans). Most pets live longer because their owners keep them medicated for the sake of keeping them alive as long as possible. They are castrated, stripping them of their basic animistic instinct (don't want baby pets out of nowhere, get a male version). Most dogs are so inbred that they require medication no matter what. Just look at pugs, or any other small dog breed. This goes back to my point of making sure that your pet can survive on it's own. Animals have a way of dealing with sicknesses. I want to believe that any animal values freedom over long life. Because freedom provides you with the most quality and joy life has to/can offer. Animals are not toys, and should not be treated as such. They should get their old status back - companions. And as it's with our human friends, companions should have freedom to choose for themselves. "You don't choose a pet. It chooses you."

>>11460 Yeah im pretty sure I agree with you I just think its worth considering, it also highlights that regardless we are still doing a lot of human projection on the animal. However even if letting the animal choose and have freedom is a result of projection of human sentiments regarding choice and freedom, it still eliminates the impact we let our desires and thoughts affect how we perceive the animals desires and thoughts, and that alone makes it better to me. When you dont fully understand someone or something its best to try to build empathy and the best way to do that is observe without bias, and allowing the animal freedom is the best way to observe. For example the animal will come to you for food, so you know it does in fact desire food from you. However if you keep the animal locked up you have no idea if it would rather eat what it finds itself but simply cant because you are the only food source.

>>11461 > we are still doing a lot of human projection on the animal You pointed out something I haven't entirely thought of myself, at least not in that form. I do agree with this (and your whole post). And looking back at how others treat their pets, I see some truth in it as well. Animals do get the best and worse of us. And animals do become like their owners.

>>11456 >>11455 >>11454 >>11452 >>11451 i have a firend, he is a Scutigera coleoptrata (his name in our native language means: fly-killer spider-centipede). i don't know what he does, he just appears and disappears every 1-2 week. i don't kill him or put him outside because he is my only friend

>>11445 I love cats. They're independent and low maintenance, but they love you for what you give them. They're affectionate in ways that feel deeper than what I get from dogs even though dogs are more intelligent. I suppose it's simply that there's more left to interpretation when you aren't you aren't going through the rituals of the cat asking you for food or opening the door to go outside. Those are obvious while I'd say that dogs are in some ways give off more mixed signals. Sure, they could be barking because someone is near, but half the time they're barking at the neighbour's dogs. It's worse when I meet those dogs across the street, and they threaten me. I know others would get over it, but outside are a chauvinistic menace with the backing of a real threat. I've been bitten before, and I would like if I never have to take that risk. Dogs aside, I just find cats aesthetic and suitable to a sedentary or single lifestyle. They're low profile. >>11457 I came to a similar conclusion, but through soykaftier means. My parents were poor and neglectful, so pets went in like revolving doors. We would love and cherish them, but at times this would end up traumatically dying or the family being unable to make the expense to feed them. The solution would have been not to get more pets, but when you are young, you go along and become accustom to letting it get to you. Honestly, I didn't really have a choice nor could I make up why we would keep getting more, but the reason why occurred much later. By the that time, my family was stable enough to take care of pets properly, but I myself would not go through that. The troublesome association still lingers.

I'd say cats are fine. They're the perfect balance of low maintenance, interactivity, and pet happiness. Especially hairless cats, they have all the perks of being a mellow 'passive' pet who you only need to feed and clean a box for (Assuming you don't just let it outside) while also being fairly clean. Claws can be an issue but if you get a mellow pet or give it some stuff it can claw like old boxes and papers they're fine. The worst they can really have is skin issues but a sunburn isn't exactly terrible, if it's hot it can hang out in the shade or hide somewhere cool, if it's cold it'll come inside or find something warm to lay down in. Dogs I don't think are worth it. They're a lot of investment for time and money, too aggressive with attention most of the time, loud, and harder to care for.

>>12665 >Dogs I don't think are worth it. They're a lot of investment for time and money, too aggressive with attention most of the time, loud, and harder to care for. I like other people's dogs, much the same way as I like my nieces and nephews. I love playing with them, but I really don't need that level of responsibility in my life.

Speaking to what a few of you have been saying, pet ownership can be more ethically cloudy than a lot of people in our culture give it credit for—there are a few anarchist communes and punk squats where pet ownership is pretty strongly frowned upon. Basically seen as having a companionship slave of some kind. Of course I think the reality is a bit more complex than that. My parents were farmers; they used animals as literal, physical slaves. Which humanity had no choice but to do for thousands of years between now and when we were essentially wild animals ourselves. But at least they were somewhat cognizant of what they're doing. I think a lot of people think they're somehow on equal terms with their pet, but I can't see how you'd come to that conclusion when you can leave at will and it can't. I mean talk about an unbalanced power dynamic. The power to leave is one of the most fundamental requisites of freedom. Had a cat walk into my life not too long ago after going through some bad stuff, as cats are sometimes want to do. Just came up crying from the street all skin and bones. What the hell am I gonna do in my present, somewhat vulnerable state—not fall in love with this thing? Guess I have a cat now. She kind of does her own thing. I need to make sure she has the ability to wander off and live her life if she wants to. She's really bad at hunting, though. Working on it.

>>12689 Also: I don't know how many people have realized it, it's kind of been a slow creep, a boiling-the-frog type thing.. but since suburbs started getting more sprawled and leash laws started getting more serious, has anyone noticed how the 'burbs and urban areas are now just this vast sea of screaming, trapped dogs who basically only go outside of tiny apartments to poop? Wasn't that way when I was growing up. They all ran all over the place. Outside dogs were the norm, and no fences either—no chain wrapped around a tree. Now it's default dog ownership to basically trap it in a room 95% of its life and leave it there while you go to work, and they get anxious and just scream and scream through the walls while you're away. Basically like being in solitary save for the one hour of yard time you get each day. Just listen sometime. It's hard to find an area in the first world where you can't hear any of them crying in panic or loneliness or anger or some other obviously neurotic dog emotion. I get you shouldn't anthropomorphize other animals too much, but sometimes it's just too obvious to doubt. Regardless the screaming just kind of becomes background noise, you learn to tune it out. Kind of is like kicking dead whales down the beach.

apologize for my english grammar. my hope you good understanded. so, often, pets effectively property--obviously this chattel pets is antecyberpunk (lyfestile), where freedom is goal. is not to say this antecyberpunk (distopial world), ante: is verily cyberpunk, as cyberpunk distopia = unfreedom; overlords (probly corporate, but not certain) controls all, inclusive humen, as chattel. 'cyberpunk lyfestile' is only way ante- 'cyberpunk distopia'. is the breaking prescribe lyfestile, taking the full control each technical details to your lyfe, emphasly pragma, instead for prescribe bullshit, meaningly, often, eschewed 'high culture', whence 'high-techno--low-lyfe' result. it maybe possible having pet preserving his freedom, but how to know? is not they sign contract, or communicate exact for humen.. can't know whereas pet willful or not. may be some way is know ambiguous, but i not know. >Dogs are a security system that can't be compromised wrong! police raid procedure kill dog on sight, whereas dog is enprobleming police or not. >like i remember how my dogs when id go to school would wait there all day just for me to come home doing almost nothing and even if they dont realize it that just seems like a fuarrrked up place to be could be.. but considered that dog may sense when you soon to arrive and starts waiting only minutes past, when contrarily active? fried had dog who thought this, and parent told his what i said about dog active until minutes (may be smells faint or..) >It presents an interesting conundrum though because indoor pets do live way longer, and wouldnt many animals prefer this? I guess it depends on if you think being free is inherently important, and I do to a degree. I also just in general dont like the concept of nonage or that we ultimately know whats best for people or animals that behave "irrationally". is strong argument to freedom is only inherently important, because each only know the good from oneself, not knowing the good from each other. ambiguous knowing that other goods maybe possible, if communication is relatal.. i suppose is not inherently, but exherently(?), because in the person, freedom never end-goal. but because each has own end-goal, the only matters is to freedom, so each cause own's goal. looks my to nonage only is when socium knows nonage maybe. all unnonagesome (concept) sociums unnonagentsome. good to hear occasion's Kantian is.

>>12665 I trim my cat's nails every two weeks

I have a good kitty cat. She's a tiny lil runt and a ball of fur and nitroglycerin. She catches all the rats and bugs and snakes, and loves sitting on a pile of computer hardware and taking a nap in the heat sink updraft. She sharpens/maintains her claws on an old wooden chair that was already an utter wreck and it was courteous of her to choose that one. She doesn't tear up anything else. Also she will walk on a leash without any complaints, which is kind of silly.

>>12689 Every pet I've ever had was worse off before I took them in. We've created this whole class of dependent animals and people just let them breed. There's no need to ever get a pet from a pet store or anything, there's enough dogs and cats around without good homes. >>12690 I watched a dog slaughter a cat once. Its owner was about ten years old and the dog was wandering off leash and unattended. There were fences in the way so no one could stop it, but I heard other neighbours screaming as it went down. Besides a cat, it could easily have chewed up a person instead; a toddler or an elderly person maybe, in which case it would have gotten the needle for its crimes. There used to be "street dogs" in North America even mid-20th century, which no one owned and everyone fed as they came around. It's still this way in other parts of the world but people are mean to the dogs too, or even have them killed. It's not a great system for the animals. My friends went to South America and came back with one of these dogs. She was the sweetest, gentlest dog you can imagine but she walked really funny. My guess is that she had been kicked around a lot and had some kind of limp from it. Here, even cats are not allowed outdoors in the city. I don't ever see animal control around but on the other hand, I'd never let my cat outside anyway. The street I grew up on, where I live again, has about four times the amount of traffic as it did when we were kids and any cat let to wander would surely end up dead soon. This is bad not only for the cat but for me, because he drives me up the fuk'n wall couped up inside all the time. We lived on a farm for three years where he was free to roam and he's never lost the taste for it. There is another issue now too... without any outdoor cats, the neighbourhood now has goddamn RATS. It's been a major topic in local media because we simply did not have this problem a few decades ago. There is a reason humans and cats became friends a few thousand years ago and it's been a mutually beneficial arrangement. He's killed two inside the apartment that I know of; he ate the middle third of one, leaving the head and rear end, and goddamn swallowed the second one entirely leaving only spackles of blood on the floor. Good boy.

I'm interesting in getting a low maintenance and a low cost pet, what would you suggest Lains? >>12665 has a pretty good point regarding hairless cats but I don't find them to be cute at all. I was thinking of a small reptile but I don't know anything about them. The only pet I ever had was a duckling and that was probably more than 10 years ago. I live in an apartment so I don't really have much space.

>>16319 speaking from a close friend's perspetctive, reptiles aren't for anyone. you have to love them, because you won't grow to do so. if you don't already have a great interest in scalies, then you're just going to be disappointed

I like everything about animals except actually living with them. I'm not fond of the idea of having to take care of the needs of another living being. Especially the fact that they soykaf and all. I don't get how people are not grossed out by the mental image of their dogs or cats soykaf in their homes and then jump on the bed with their filthy unwashed hole to cuddle with you. I'd probably be an awful owner too, getting distracted and forgetting about them. Besides, there's the whole morality issue about what's actually best for them that other lainanons already pointed out. It's just not for me I guess. Although I wonder if turtles are high maintenance? They seem very cute and chill. I've been interested in them even since I played The Silver Case. Another alternative I've been thinking of is taking care of plants. They are just there doing nothing and I like that, remember to water them regularly, seems more up my speed.

>>16343 You could always try taking care of insects. There are lots of species which need stupidly low maintenance, and they will happily stay in their enclosure - just invest in the setup and you're basically good. Keeping fish can also be very rewarding/non messy, but requires a lot of detailed care. I totally know what you mean though, I cringe every time I see somebody 'kiss' their dog. Yuck.

no pet ownership is, morally wrong.

>>18924 OWNING a pet is morally wrong. I have doggos. You don't own dogs. Dogs don't own you. It's reciprocity of services. I feed him, I love him. He protect me and my house, he bring simple joy in everyday life. Dogs are based.

cats is luv

>>18932 Kittens is love. Cats is "I'm going to shed everywhere and treat you with total contempt until I need food". >>18925 >Dogs are based. As are you, good sir/ma'am.