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Maybe we'll talk about religion? Tell me what you believe in.(Please remember to always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf. This is a soyakf opening post, you could have also elaborated on your beliefs or told us why you were asking the question. To people replying, religion is a divisive topic, please remember to keep discussion civil and in good faith, irrespective of your chosen belief systems.)

>>4920 I like old mythology stories and the cultures, but I'm atheist.

Here another boring atheist too, sorry

I used to think the tribal religions of the Earth were what we were supposed to be searching out, knowing of course that with some exceptions most of those faiths were exterminated or watered down to a point that they may as well have been. The revivalist movements for centuries dead faiths all seemed like hobby groups at best. Now I just can't find it in me to believe we even lost some spiritual connection because whomever our various ancestors thought they were talking to wasn't really there anyway. So, reluctant atheist. Reluctant because I wish there was something out there but I just can't believe that there is.

>>4920 I'm a materialist, i.e. I don't believe there exists anything outside of physical universe. The notion of a god as an all powerful, all knowing entity doesn't make sense. I guess there could exist something, somewhere, that would bare resemblance to the more "mild" notions of godhood, much like advanced technology can seem like magic if you don't know how it works, but that's highly unlikely as well. Furthermore, chances that we would ever be able to make contact with something like that even if it existed are close to zero.

>>4923 >whomever our various ancestors thought they were talking to wasn't really there anyway. Why do you think so?

>>4926 I could just as well ask, why do you think there is. I just don't see any reason to believe. Religion may have served social purposes or to galvanize a community in time of need or to console a person in grief. I'm not about to say we've evolved beyond those needs, rather that this doesn't make the actual beliefs true. A singer once sung: > I don't believe in Heaven but I understand the need, > Sometimes I believe they're the same

"Even so, I will...! I will believe! I will believe in the me that believes in us, humans and the future!" Humanism.

>>4927 >answering a question with a question Nice way of showing your bias tbh

I don't believe in religion because people in the past of every region believed in unreal, untrue ghosts, deities, and souls. Archaeological research shows the contradictory development of major religions. Major religions all have bad morality. If some enhanced modern ethics rejects the moral system of a divine text, the text isn't a guide I should practice.

Organized religion is a farce meant to control people. I don't believe anything religious or even vaguely mystical, although I do believe that there may exist beings that are more intelligent and more powerful than a human can even comprehend.

What about the Tao, or discordianism? The tao appeals to me because it does away with the concept of god. It instead proposes a 'way'. It says that the universe flows according to this way. And the book of the Tao tries to inquire into it through short and oftentimes apparently absurd poems. Discordianism is interesting because it is a form of existentialism. As I understand it, its primary axiom is that belief is a tool. This makes it possible for discordianists to create their own reality by learning to manipulate their beliefs. This in turn lead me to chaos magic which is a nice addon to a meditation practice. Any lainon here into chaos? PD I spun this image up in blender for this post. Lets all love lain!

>>4936 >it does away with the concept of god. No, Tao only replaces the personal God with an impersonal deity

>>4933 What bias is that? I stated my position clearly; I had faith and now I don't. I struggled really hard to keep it and I think if there really was a higher power they would have helped me in that. The default position is NOT to believe something, whatever it is. Here, you answer mine: why don't you believe purple elephants are about to fall out of the sky? Honestly, answer that as if were a serious question.

Weak Agnostic, Dr. Manhattan style.

>>4943 Bro.. what. There is no mention of god or a deity in the book of Tao. I mean I read the book. Why do you say that? I want to understand.

>>4954 Some people incorrectly equate Taoism with Buddhism, I think that's where the misunderstanding is. The two have been intertwined by many and some westerners don't know the difference.

>>4946 > I had faith and now I don't. I'm not whom you're replying to but I want to share my experience. When I was younger I was a diehard atheist. I remember wanting to have faith but being unable to.. I know that feeling of seeking 'god' and the reply being a big fat emptiness. But I found something else.. not god but the way (yea the Tao). For me it's clear that the universe flows according to certain rules, and it's not too hard to imagine that these rules have a way. This helped ease my existential dread by a small bit. The other piece that helped me was the ritual use of psychedellics. The dissolution of the ego as well as having an experience that is completely different from what we call normal taught me that there are bigger things than me and my anxiety. I hope you find your way.

>>4936 >>>/vis/903 Here is a better render of the same image

>>4957 Yeah, this sounds plausible. Buddhism while being culturally very beautiful doesn't fulfill my spiritual needs like Tao does.

>>4958 Thank you. I did read some stuff related to Tao when I was younger. The thing is, I can take wisdom from that without really feeling any connection to a higher power in the religious sense. I felt something when I took mushrooms though. In fact that was what made me curious about these things for a while but now I'm not sure it wasn't just the mushrooms themselves. I've been pretty close to some schizophrenics who tried to frame their struggle as a spiritual one too. At the time I believed what they were saying but from a distance it looks like they were just trying to cope with family and doctors telling them their delusions weren't real. Real or not, there was no way to dispel these visions. Telling a schizophrenic that a voice "isn't real" is something they take as an existensial attack; if it's not real then who is the one hearing it? If it's not real, then I am not real. etc. So putting it in a spiritual framework kept them from killing themselves and I wouldn't dream of taking that away from them but I can't bring myself to believe it's true either.

>>4961 Talking about schizophrenia and religion is very interesting. I don't even know where to start. The thing is that religion has changed over time. A long time ago, many families had a 'protector' spirit, one which the old people knew how to please. Rituals were passed down only within the family through oral tradition. In this context, people with 'mental disorders' such as schizophrenia or OCD were of special importance. The schizos were regarded as being able to 'talk' and hear the gods. And the people with OCD kept the rituals going exactly as they were meant to be. Now.. whether these gods are real or not is a different subject. I think that up to a certain extent it doesn't really matter. I would argue that the gods are real ideas, and that these ideas influence real people's actions. They may inspire, and strengthen people's lives. In this sense the gods do influence the real world, through the people that believe in them. What do you think?

>>4962 Yes, the idea that belief can change you and therefore the world around you as you go through it, particularly when focused through something tangible like ceremony, is a real thing. That's sort of the idea behind "magick" and even Anton Lavey's church (who are technically atheist but put on elaborate rituals). About the role of schizophrenics in early religion, that's what I was referring to, that's what the people I mentioned clung to. My friend went to Chinese medicine school where she hid her diagnosis from staff and students but there was one instructor she trusted enough with it. The old lady grew very excited and said something about her being a special person, someone who would be very good at this work. She made it through pre-med and some other degree, then into Chinese medicine school with very few people figuring out she was anything but eccentric or bitchy, but I saw her worst moments and they were harrowing. The OCD thing is new though but lol it makes sense.

>>4954 >Why do you say that? I want to understand. This deity is the "way" and before him blindly bow Taoists

>>4964 >This deity is the "way" ok >and before him blindly bow Taoists Now you just sound like you like to feel superior to people you don't even know. Present Day, Present Time! AHAHAHAHAHA!

>>4963 >That's sort of the idea behind "magick" and even Anton Lavey's church (who are technically atheist but put on elaborate rituals). Yes. That is what I follow as a 'religious practice'. I study math and this is very useful as well. What I do is create a 'sacred space' and meditate within. This makes visualization a lot easier and much more powerful. Of course visualization can be used for several things, I use it to solve mathematical problems and to help myself soldier through difficult times. I don't think I do something too different from most people, I just take charge of what I visualize, while others let their minds run amok, often leading them to distress even in peaceful times.

>>4920 im a christian, but alot of people have misconceptions about christianity

>>4981 Most Christians have misconceptions about Christianity to begin with. This us where the non-Christians get their impressions.

>>4920 Christian. I believe that Jesus was sent by God to die for our sins so that we could have everlasting life.

>>4989 I will ask: If Jesus only died in meat and not in soul, am I right saying he never really died? Because technically speaking if he never died as I believe he did not sacrifice and we owe him nothing

>>4992 Well his flesh died. Our flesh is contaminated with sin and sin = eternal and physical death He never sinned and took our sins upon him and died for us so that we can be cleansed. You don't owe anyone anything but if you want to have everlasting life then you need to believe that Jesus died for your sins. After the first sin, the connection between humans and God was severed and Jesus is the bridge.

>>4992 The meat died and then was restarted by jumper cables. Then it was absorbed into Heaven; that's what The Ascension was. The soul doesn't die. Ever.

I'm a deist (technically agnostic deist but oh well) due to me now thinking that there's more likely a God than not. t.former atheist

>>4997 What made you change your opinion?

Zen i guess, at least as well as non-chineese can get it (i mean, in my opinion westerners can't "get" eastern stuff, because they were "contaminated" by christianity already, and those two have completly different approach. For example, compare dhammapada 276 with john 14:6. Neither is bad, mind you. Please tell me how do you feel about this, also) Though, it was pretty funny thing with zen, because i discovered it by myself(well not completly, my dad was pretty similar but he didn't know of whole zen stuff either) when i was a kid and only learned that it has a name and generally is a thing

>>4996 All this talk about meat and flesh is making christianity suddenly look like a cool meat religion. I wonder if that is a misconception as well.

>>5002 By zen you mean buddhism, right? What makes zen different from vanilla buddhism to you?

>>5004 What other God gave us his own flesh to eat and blood to drink? (well Quetzlcoatl did too I think). Jesus: > And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” Catholics literally believe those little bread wafers are His body and the wine us His blood, once they've been blessed.

>>5005 approach, zen seems like very bare-bones, stripped-down-to-mininum buddhism to me. Though, it's not like I've read deep into differences between them. I'd believe in same stuff even if I didn't know buddhism/zen/etc exists.

>>4995 But if only the flesh died he did not really die, am I right?

>>5021 Different Lain here. I'm not sure what you're trying to figure out exactly. As I understand it the biological process known as life ceased for three days and then started again. In most Christian belief systems the soul can't "die" except the churches that preach that Hell is not a place of torment but of termination; you go there and you cease to exist at all according to those denominations.