This is an official reply, any information is purely informative, another reply summarizing actions taken will be made in this thread.
The reply may be considered long and hence TLDR by some posters. The TLDR for the reply : Lots of complicated background information, if you only care about outcomes see section 7, and wait for the follow up reply that specifies what action has been taken.
The summary for this reply is as follows
1. Factoids and Misconceptions
2. The proposals suggested so far.
3. Replies to points made in the thread
4. Possible courses of action
5. Additional issues
6. Other related threads.
7. Probable outcomes
1. Fdactoids and Misconceptions
Firstly the IRC and the image board are not the same venue and don't have the same rules.
Implying that the rules on the image board magically carry over to the IRC server is incorrect.
As stated below Rules 8 and Rule 9 were implicitly carried over, and the rules for the IRC Server will need to be updated to be more explicit based on the feedback from this post.
The IRC server was created in order to host the Lainchan Administration conversation platform on an Open Source platform as opposed to Slack at the request of several of the Lainchan Administration team including members that have left and gone to lainchan.jp and have now moved back from IRC to Telegram, and any other channels were just considered an added bonus.
Also previously on the IRC server anyone was allowed to make both registered and unregistered IRC channels and run those channels , so long as they obeyed the server rules, however based on the feedback of this post, that may no longer be the case.
This isn't the same with boards on the image board, because we are not 8chan, and the official procedure for getting a board added to Lainchan whether hidden or on the board list, involves making sufficient posts about a topic in /r/ as an indication of demand, as well has finding a staff member willing to moderate said board, and providing a definition of post relevance and post quality for said board.
See the /r/ thread in section 6 for more information but in short the IRC community, image board community, Mumble community,etc are different communities with some overlap.
Secondly the difference between #lainchan IRC channel on Freenode and its successor on irc.lainchan.org and Lainchan image board.
Thirdly the #lainchan IRC cultural legacy and its backstory.
The #lainchan IRC channel on Freenode was a lot of different things to a lot of different people, and it was its own little IRC world, where shitposting that wasn't tolerated on the imageboard was encouraged, and the only rule that I was told (after surveying lainons for over 6 months, and asking former Lainchan founder and staff) of was the 33% shitposting, 33% quality discussion and 33% comfy rule.
In making the #lainchan channel on irc.lainchan.org, I have tried to keep #lainchan in the same spirit as the original channel, the main difference being the difference in enforcement of rules, e.g.
Freenode had people that were given OP because kalyx chose them and no other reason, and they were given full autonomy with no accountability for their actions to ban and kick and shitpost as they saw fit.
Currently no such OPs exist in #lainchan on irc.lainchan.org and the channel is largely unmoderated, though I do attempt to gently mitigate spamming and other complaints, and I am looking for people that want to be OP on #lainchan and can demonstrate their restraint / inaction / gentleness in their approach.
This is in contrast to #general for General Discussion that is a moderated channel with rules that are actively moderated and a such it is normally quite quiet in comparison.
The whole reason #childlove and #pedo and #girltime exist was because specific individuals would not stop being militant about their pedophilia in #lainchan, and in addition to the subject being pedophilia, it was this militant attitude of always bringing the topic up, or private messaging people without asking them and bringing the topic up, which lead to people in the IRC making complaints about those actions being uncomfy, and my enforcement of the you are being uncomfy take it elsewhere request.
However this was interpreted as being channel specific by the person I asked to take their conversation elsewhere instead of server specific, so first they made the unregistered channel of #pedo, then no liking the connotations of that made the unregistered channel on #girllove.
#girltime was made separately by other people that just wanted a place where they could shit post about their daily lives and if they happened to mention the girltime image board by accident it wouldn't be a big deal, and was actually registered.
2. The proposals suggested so far.
The Reef Band Proposal
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/5f/5f2d9a1dd5ecce009538b926f97dd38e889fefc26cbdde9066c9fc4ca8c07993.jpg
1. Ban all pedos,
2. Delete all pedo channels
3. Channel whitelist to stop people from making new channels.
The Biyeophile Proposal
https://i.imgflip.com/1urhj.jpg
1. Lock the channels
2. Redirect to an onion messageboard on the same topic
3. Replies to points made in the thread
>>>/q/3741
>Worst of all, it even has Appleman's blessing:
It doesn't have my blessing, see #lainchan cultural legacy discussion as well as >>>/q/3825 which succinctly summarized the context of the quoted redirections.
>>>/q/3758
>Appleman seems completely oblivious. >He probably has no idea why this would >make us question his judgement.
I am not completely oblivious, I am entirely aware of why this would make you question my judgement.
And just in case I wasn't I have been told so , by all these replies in the thread, as well as over 10 different lainons on IRC and Mumble, exactly what other people think should be done if they were in my shoes, despite having a limited idea of the weight of those shoes and the consequences of the footprints.
>>>/q/3760
>[18:47]<Appleman1234> S1ohy: it just is another oppurtunity cost thing, X amount of time spent replying to this drama thread instead of making lainchan better.
>You could start making lainchan better by removing a safe haven for pedophiles. >Pull your head out of your ass.
Last I checked the was no safe haven for pedophiles, and my head was attached to my shoulders and at opposite end of my torso to my bottom, and I haven't owned a donkey / ass to date.
>>>/q/3675
>How the fuarrrk can you condone CP Appleman wtf.
I don't condone CP, and it doesn't matter whether I condone or condemn CP, what matters is what this community and their communication platforms rules are regarding this issue and the enforcement of those rules.
For the image board these are currently well defined, explicitly stated and established, however this isn't the case for the IRC server to date, because other than then implicit statement that the Rules 8 and 9 from the image board
Do not post child pornography or questionable 2D/3DCG/3DPG sexual depictions of children. This includes "child models".
If you must post it, spoiler any NSFW content and make sure it's relevant to the discussion.
also are upheld on the IRC server, there is no explicit rule definition for the IRC server, this will be changing in the immediate future however.
>>>/q/3770
Thanks for actually stating an opinion and elaborating, unlike so many other posters in this thread. It is great to hear you still care about this place.
>If anyone still has Tsutsukakushi's blog, you should probably link to that, if you're interested in the kind of discussions being hosted on what I assume is the very same VPS as lainchan.
However your assumption is a poorly worded misunderstanding at best and a deliberate misinformation attempt at worst. I already responded in >>>/q/3837 attempting to clarify the misunderstanding caused by your word choice, were several lainons thought you meant lainchan was hosting the aforementioned blog.
>>>/q/3817
>>3758
>He is completely oblivious. He thinks this is just some "drama thread," according to the log >>3751 posted.
>>>/q/3778
>>3760
>drama thread
>is this seriously what he thinks this is?
I think this thread given the poor quality of OP and all the rule violations in this thread, it is both a thread that contains
* A serious issue being reported
* That issue being dramatized and overreacted upon by people that are not willing to be patient and just wanting instant gratification / lynching,
* The interaction of various attempts at people stirring soykaf for their own personal objectives as per >>>/q/3503
* A mixture of memes and other things.
>>>/q/3809
>>3806
>I am still drafting an official statement.
>In the amount of time it took you to read this thread and respond you could have already deleted it. Why draft an official statement? Stop talking and start doing.
You are underestimating the amount of effort and the temporal costs of the actions required as well as implied your lack of temporal constraints on my circumstance.
On Action without thought I defer to the following quotes
http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-action-without-thought-is-empty-thought-without-action-is-blind-kwame-nkrumah-68-68-59.jpg
http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-action-without-thought-is-mindlessness-and-thought-without-action-is-hypocritical-ayn-rand-52-54-01.jpg
>>>/q/3810
>>3806
>just get rid of the Pedos already.
>There is nothing to discuss. these are pedophiles you are defending.
Discussion and communication are important. At present I don't believe I am defending anyone, however you could argue that I am defending all lainons from themselves.
>>>/q/3771
>Appleman makes it out like it's this huge complicated mess when it's really not. Delete the channel and move on. It's not that hard. And if it is hard, why is he administrator?
I am not making out that anything is anything. If you are reading logs from IRC then you are reading information said in context, and you may not have a full understanding of that context when interpreting logs, which is why analyst positions exist in organisations for people whose day job it is to take raw data / logs and information and turn it into actionable intelligence or summarized information that can be used to benefit the organisation.
Difficulty of the actions required is also misunderstood here, but that is beside the point.
>>>/q/3827
>>>3771
>>And if it is hard, why is he administrator?
>Because he popped up out of nowhere in the IRC and bought the site from kalyx for $5,000 the moment kalyx mentioned it was for sale.
I didn't pop up of nowhere, I have been on the IRC for at least 1.5 years, and I had been viewing and posting on the chan since 2015, I wasn't the first person kalyx mentioned selling it to, I just happened to go to the effort of following thorough on the offer.
>>>3814
>And Appleman wonders why people call him incompetent.
I don't wonder why people call me incompetent most of the time, because most of the people calling incompetent (that are not rule 4 breaking drive soykaf slingers), actually elaborate on their reasoning and provide me with constructive criticism and feedback so I can improve my lack of competency.
>>>3787
>POST LOGS. People will not understand the gravity of the situation until they see it firsthand.
Posting logs on the image board has been traditionally culturally frowned upon because of all the drama it generated, when people complete post logs with good intentions, and then people see those logs and think these logs are too long to read, and other people summarize these logs in a manner that is full of soundbites and bite sized pieces , but removes the original context from the quotes, leaving misinterpretation and misunderstanding as very likely outcomes.
>>>/q/3834
>>>/q/3850
>fuarrrk you Appleman pedophilia-enabling child porn condoning chan-ruining cuntbag
I am not enabling pedophilia.
I do not condone child porn.
I am not a chan ruining cuntbag.
3 strikes , your out.
I am a meme now ?
Such a nice hat,
Such nice finger pistols
Such a nice fridge.
>>>/q/3851
>>3833
>Neat.
>>3848
>Okay, and where do you draw the line for CP?
>Becuase this
> REDACTED
>was linked in the chat. You tell me >whether or not you think that should be >allowed.
>Hmmm, if only there was some sort of place this was outlined, oh wait.
>Do not post child pornography or questionable 2D/3DCG/3DPG sexual depictions of children. This includes "child models".
>The content of the channel explicitly violates the rules of the website, no need to thank me for moderating your own board while you draft an "official statement" you illiterate retard.
In terms of your line drawing question, see the response under additional issues, e.g. issues with the reef band proposal's initial definition.
Last I checked, I was both literate and not retarded, and hence capable of reading and writing a reply to your post.
I can't find the link you are posting in either server logs or in my client logs, though this may be a misconfiguration on my part.
The linked image you mentioned is not as far as I know a sexual depiction of a child, in that their is no sexual act taking place, as well as no nudity.
That said I can see how a person could consider the image as a sexualized depiction of a child, but that is imparting their personalized morality on the image subjectively, which falls under the questionable category.
Though the posting of this image wasn't reported to me outside of this thread, and so far and the logs that have been posted contain 3 girltime links which are also non sexualized depictions of a child/children.
I don't believe the girltime links were posted in #lainchan, which means the containment was working.
Your point of line drawing , which you try and iterate with this image is covered in section 6.
>>>/q/3877.
>Hello Fellow "Dudes"
>I hear you have "Rad" CeePee.
Hi man over there, I believe you are misinformed.
See the man over there
(Doo doot, doo doot)
He's a Leo, check his hair
(Doo doot, doo doot)
Virgo eyes, Aries smile
(Doo doot, doo doot)
I like the Leo, check his style
(Doo doot, doo doot)
You look like a nice LEO, so if you are looking for "Rad" CeePee , you want to try http://fr-fr.radioline.co/ecouter-radcp-la-radio-disney or http://db.radioline.fr/pictures/radio_2cb573fb3554ce28ca5ed00422c5c30f/logo200.jpg?size=600 .
>>>/q/3887
>Holy soykaf this place is fuarrrked.
>So very fuarrrked, I'm sorry defending pedos? That's too far, now this threads full of sick pedophiles defending their sexual exploitation of children.
>I hope this bites you all in the ass, you are all very sick people.
OMG, rabid animals are going around biting people in the ASS and people are getting very sick. Do we panic and cause a massive health scare or to we keep calm and innoculate against the rabies infection. As per the supporting image of this post and the linked image below, Keep calm and don't jump to erroneous conclusions. https://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-don-t-jump-to-conclusions-2.png
>>>/q/3906
>>>3903
>He brought this upon himself. If he were >more intelligent, he would have deleted >the channel and moved on. Instead he
>continues to double down and defend >his decision. What could he have >possibly expected to happen? Everyone >just be cool with it?
I didn't bring this on myself or ask for any of this. I don't see with how not responding to your temporal constraints has anything to do with my intelligence.
I haven't made a decision yet, there is nothing to double down on, and the decision I am likely to make is in the opposite direction of your claim ?
>>>/q/3907
>>3906
>That's pretty much it. Appleman is _very_ autistic in the sense that he's >super-detached from normal society and >the notion of social norms being a thing.
>He doesn't understand why people are upset, he just sees "drama". And then, >since he has no facility with actually e.g. >keeping track of what people want and >why, he tries to create abstract formal >structures and tries to goad people into >following them as "the rules" or "the
>procedures". He also does this to >compensate for his total lack of >organizational ability but that's an >unrelated matter, in this case.
>Now, this is a thing that can work. But it >only works insofar as you keep track of >what people actually _want_ and then >channel that into such structures. Most >of us have an intuitive understanding of >what other people want because we try >to figure out what the social norms are >and then either comply with them or use >them to our advantage depending on >our temperament.
>Appleman does not do this at all.
>The fact that most people simply don't >want even slight association with >pedophiles eludes him, and thus people >need to explain this fact to him.
This is a baseless personal attack, and makes several assumptions about my character and disposition based on limited interactions on IRC and jumping to incorrect conclusions.
It is an attempt to dehumanize me in order to make me the bad guy, all because people made incorrect assumptions and misunderstandings and took stuff I said out of context.
4. Possible courses of action
Just because a course of action is listed here, doesn't mean it will be taken.
1. Shutdown everything. the Madagascar approach / Nuclear option
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Shut_b76733_1693530.jpg
2. Shutdown IRC server. The Numb3rs approach
http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/7/2/8/53728.jpg
3. Channel white list for IRC, deleting existing channels and issuing bans.
(Actual implementation of the reef band proposal.)
https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder904/67396904.jpg
4. Ask them to leave nicely approach.
https://lygsbtd.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/go-away.jpeg
5. Tolerate them as long as they are in not violating rules in other channels and abide by the server rules
https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder530/64298530.jpg
5. Additional issues
Just because I list an issue here, doesn't mean I have provided a full elaboration and just because I have asked a question doesn't mean that don't already have answers for it.
1. Issues with the Reef Band Proposal
The terms used are not defined or specified.
What is the definition of
1. Ban
2. A pedo
3. All pedos
What makes a channel a pedo channel ?
2. Issues with the Biyeophile Proposal
Lock all the channels, but not delete them ? Doesn't deal with the creation of new channels ?
Redirect conversation elsewhere to onion message board ? Do we even want to have a redirect ? Which onion message board ?
3. Issues raised in the IRC discussion
This is a witch hunt based on emotional and personal subjectivity morality , under the argument the majority of people also share that emotional and subjective morality.
If we are banning people based on a witchhunt , then several users want all the following things banned by the same argument.
* All sexual discussion
* All liberals, marxists, anarchists, and communists.
* Non-free software users
* Americans
* Women
* Drug users
* <insert other group user doesn't like here>
The following quote from IRC.
E.g.
It's not a matter of oppression, it's banning for nothing other than hurt feelings which is the problem.
The Free Speech issue vs Censorship issue.
Some people believe that all internet communities inherently allow free speech and assume the free speech people can talk / post whatever they like without consequences and can militantly force their views on others.
Democracy vs Benevolent Oligarchy and its role within Lainchan issue
Freedom vs Control issue.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-those-who-would-give-up-essential-liberty-to-purchase-a-little-temporary-safety-deserve-neither-benjamin-franklin-283040.jpg
Centralized VS Decentralized Control Issue
Information wants to be free Issue
6. Other related threads.
On the difference between IRC and Imageboard culture for Lainchan:
>>>/r/2739 or https://lainchan.org/r/res/2739.html
I still need to reply to this thread.
Previous thread about this topic:
b0b's complaint about getting a 1 day ban in #general for whistleblowing / witchhunting
https://archive.lainchan.jp/q/res/13222.html
7. Probable outcomes
Based on the discussion above, the following outcomes are likely
1. The rule breaking posts in this thread will be publicly warned.
2. The IRC Server rules will be updated to be more explicit.
They feature the rule 8 and rule 9 explicitly, the will also feature the
People are people, Lainon are Lainons , Lain is Lain. Lets all Love motto, I keep repeating regarding tolerance and clauses against being militant or uncivil in one's conduct on the IRC server.
3. Based on the recommendations of several of the Lainchan administration team and discussion with several other users, a variant of the Reefband proposal is likely to be taken.
E.g.
Channel white list to stop people from making new channels will be deployed as part of the IRC server configuration. The 3 channels mentioned earlier will be deleted, and if registered will be dropped with services by being deleted and blacklisted.
Regarding server bans, I am not yet decided on whether retroactive banning will take place or only bans for future offenses , and whether banning will be channel specific, server specific or mutebans or full bans.
I still don't have a criteria for which Lainons to ban based on which rule breaches, and as far as I know the other only Lainons that could be banned based on interpretations Rule 8 and Rule 9 are kek, and arguably Tsutsukakushi if you equate text with images.
As for lainons that should be banned on being overly militant towards their fellow lainons, that list is much longer, but probably won't be used as a basis for retroactive banning.
How will these actions impact #lainchan's cultural heritage and bubble ? That is a good question.