Personal Attacks and Targeted Media Campaigns

>>2555 If only Appleman would publicly release videos of himself jacking it :( :( :(

>>3504 He has a tradition to honour

>>3505 Let's start a petition.

>>3506 >>3505 >>3504 It is done. https://www.change.org/p/lainchan-org-appleman1234-honor-lainchan-tradition-and-record-a-video-of-himself-masturbating

>>3508 "Deletd". Too bad, I'd rather watch Appleman jack off than Kalyx.

>>3510 Here's a screenshot I managed to grab before it got "deleted" because Appleman1234 threatened me with copyright infringement, defamation, and hate speech.(FILE WAS DELETED Due to off topic Rule 4 breach)

>>3511 fuarrrk that guy. Even more reason to abandon his sinking ship

>>3511 >>3510 >>3511 >>3511 >>3511 >>3511 >>3511 >>3511 >>3511 ==the owner of a CYBERPUNK imageboard threatening a user with COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT?== what a corporate move. smh. the guy's the owner of a fuarrrking CHAN IMAGEBOARD and has absolutely zero sense of humor. even worse, he runs around hunting down and murdering humor. god this place has gone downhill since kalyx left.

>>3511 File deleted. Wow. Quality admin-ing/moderation right here. Uploaded offsite because ==INFORMATION WANTS TO BE FREE:== https://a.lainfile.pw/VL/applelbate1.png

>>3515 >>3515 >>3515

Go away, .jp. Nobody cares.

>>3511 Wait what happened to my post? Why was it deleted? Sitewite rules are as follows: 0. Do not post in or view any boards if you are under 18 years of age. 1. If you break the rules we will delete your post. Do it repeatedly and you'll be derezzed. 2. Do not call for mods, or announce reports in a thread. 3. Always argue in good faith and avoid using personal attacks. 4. You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf. 5. Don't respond with aggression to perceived flames or trolls (or at all.) 6. Do not whine and cry about 8chan, lainchan.jp, "quality", "invasions", "new users", mods, bans, or kalyx outside of /q/. 7. Do not spam or advertise unrelated content. 8. Do not post child pornography or questionable 2D/3DCG/3DPG sexual depictions of children. This includes "child models". 9. If you must post it, spoiler any NSFW content and make sure it's relevant to the discussion. 10. Do not upload malicious archives. 11. Read the rules again. /* infinite iteration will fix later */ Which rule dude my post break? Why was it deleted if it didn't break any of the site rules? Or can Appleman1234 just delete anything he wants without having to answer to anybody now?

>>3518 >Wait what happened to my post? Why was it deleted? Lainchan has gone from an anarchic cyber-state to a fascist dictatorship run by an autistic narcissist since kalyx left. That's why. >>3517 >People are criticizing Appleman therefore they MUST be from .jp. No way whatsoever they could simply have valid complaints and arguments. Check yo self.

>>3511 Defamation and hate-speech for a joke petition? This guy needs to get his soykaf together.

>>3518 >Or can Appleman1234 just delete anything he wants without having to answer to anybody now? This is somewhat his stance from the beggining >I can just hide all the boards without having to answer to anybody etc

This thread is to clarify the recent sets of actions that have been taken in response to the targeted soykaf stirring and soykaf posting . Regarding the Lainchan Trivia Thread started by vantablack at https://lainchan.org/r/res/2346.html#2346 and >>>/r/2346 it has been locked pending deletion for both the OP and the replies not meeting the quality requirements of /r/ and being a Rule 4 violation. You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf. The offending off topic posts regarding the change.org petition to propagate the false masturbation video meme were moved (not deleted) to this thread. The what happened to the Lainchan Trivia Thread >>3507 was also merged (not deleted) into this post. As for why it wasn't merged leaving a shadow thread that is because I haven't implemented shadow merge yet.

This thread went on for weeks perfectly fine but suddenly it gets locked and a warning applied to the OP moment people start criticizing Appleman in it? Why? https://lainchan.org/r/res/2346.html

He isn't even trying to hide the fact that he's forcefully silencing dissenting opinions. Willingly dodging legitimate questions within the thread, like why a user's image was deleted even though it adhered to site rules perfectly. Fascism isn't cyberpunk, Lain.

How could that op have possibly broken rule 4? it was posted a month ago and nobody had a problem with it until today. it's so obvious the thread was locked to stop people from discussing Appleman. there were no legitimate grounds for locking that thread, so he finagled the flimsy excuse of "write a better op next time."

>>3507 >>3509 >>3512 I want proof that Appleman1234 actually threatened someone with copyright infringement, and that this isn't just some black flag op by .jp.

I still never got an answer about why a post that didn't break any of the site rules was illegitimately deleted. Looking at that thread now, I see even replies about what CAUSED the contention are being deleted. This is straight-up suppressing criticism against him. >>3522 Here's a link to the IRC logs. Have to upload it somewhere off-site because he keeps deleting the proof posted here. https://a.lainfile.pw/VP/applelog1234.txt

>>3509 >fascism I agree that this thread lock needs explanation, it looks like complete bullsoykaf to lock it. But let's research the meaning of words before using them, otherwise everything turns to name-calling.

>>3523 >>3523 >>3523 I read the logs. jfc, lainon. is he getting mad at you for reporting a bug - because it made him look bad? >it was bad in the same way kalyx deleting the site without asking was bad >by presenting information that allowed additional criticism and then there's that whole thing where he flip-flops about if intentions matter. ends up being "intentions don't matter if i think the action makes me look bad but intentions do matter when actions make me look bad." five brouzouf says he'll lock/delete this thread too

>>3504 >>3505 >>3506 Not going to happen. >>3507 >>3512 >>3518 >>3522 As per the IRC conversation It was locked because it was a Rule 4 violation both the OP and the replies , as per >>>/q/3503 When the was first created by vantablack I flagged it both to vantablack and to Lainchan staff as a low quality post and rule 4 breach. It wasn't locked immediately because of the lack of a strong /r/ sticky given that /r/ was made by seph without consultation with other staff, and because I thought that and advocated for despite the mistaken and terrible OP that lainons could improve the quality of thread by their replies, I was unfortunately proven incorrect about this thought however Was the thread the thread locked and warned because people began discussing/critiquing you ? No it wasn't locked and warned for those reasons, but that off topic set of replies that are better suited to /q/ , did force reevaluation of all post moderation judgments on the thread. >>3509 I am not dodging anything, I am just answering the legitimate questions on a different time frame than the one you expect. Organisation isn't facism. Also from the FAQ. My answer: First what lainchan.org is: lainchan.org is a domain name, the host that domain name points to hosts an imageboard called lainchan based on vichan, it hosts a Mumble server, it hosts an audio stream. The purpose of lainchan.org the domain name is so you don't have to type an IP address to access the services hosted on the previously mentioned host. The purpose of lainchan.org is to be a place / community where people can interact online. What makes lainchan.org community different from all the other places / communities where people can interact online ? This is another good question, and one you haven't asked yet, but I will try to answer anyhow. Our main distinguishing factors are related to our appreciation of Lain and Serial Experiments Lain. The series is influenced by themes such as reality, identity, and communication, and it demonstrates them by using philosophy, computer history, cyberpunk literature, and conspiracy theory. (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Experiments_Lain) Most of the boards on the image board reflect aspects or influences of the series. Because the series is influenced by cyberpunk literature, it very easy to label the lainchan.org community as just a cyberpunk image board, but I believe that label is incomplete at best and a restriction at worst. My answer isn't the only answer, and I happy to see others posting their answer to the same question. My question to you which you don't need to answer here. The lainchan community is to you what you want it to be. What do you want it to be ? >>3510 >>3514 I didn't threaten you, I just pointed out that actions have consequences, and that you breached the terms of service for change.org and that I would have to send them letters of dispute. I didn't ask you to delete the petition. >>3519 This is not true, but based on your previous replies , you don't seem to be interested in the truth. >>3521 That wasn't my stance from the beginning, but you already knew that, the AMA thread will be restored in to /archive/ eventually, and will confirm this. >>3522 I am not suppressing criticism. This is the 3rd time you have posted IRC logs without asking or communicating, which whilst understandable , isn't polite. >>3525 I wasn't mad. I was a little confused and disappointed at not being communicated to beforehand and finding out after the fact.

>>3527 >I flagged it to vantablack The thread was never "flagged" to me. You acknowledged the existence of the thread numerous times in the IRC but never once "flagged" it. >I am not dodging anything, I am just answering the legitimate questions on a different time frame than the one you expect. When you delete posts from a thread, lock the thread, and then go back and delete EVEN MORE posts from the thread -- and then delete a new thread asking about why the thread you just deleted was deleted -- and then wait an hour and a half to even explain the situation, what's a Lainon supposed to think? You said you wanted to wait to respond, but then why not wait to delete things as well? Why not put a reply in the thread explaining why things were disappearing, like mods do when threads are moved to different boards? It wasn't all at once, either. First you deleted the screenshot of the Change.org petition. Then you began deleting specific replies that referenced it. Then you locked the thread. Then you deleted every single reply after it was first mentioned. And only an hour or so later you made this sticky. What was I supposed to think? This all reeks of disingenous after-the-fact justification for deleting the screenshot of the petition. >This is the 3rd time you have posted IRC logs without asking or communicating, which whilst understandable , isn't polite. It was the second. The first was simply me letting a user know that the bug with the uploader being broken had already been reported and was known about by you. Which you deemed "harmful" because it "allowed for criticism." (See https://lainchan.org/%CE%A9/res/1078.html#1179) >I didn't threaten you, I just pointed out that actions have consequences The threat was implicit but overt. Hell, at the end of the log you said my actions would have "prolific consequences."

And another thing: Why is this thread called "Personal Attacks and Targeted Media Campaigns"? First off, these were not "personal attacks." This was a complaint about actions you took. Please don't take general criticism as a personal attack. Secondly, "targeted media campaign"? How is that even related? Every time someone critiques something you do it has to be some sort of "targeted campaign"? You're framing the situation in a way that absolves you of all fault and you know it.

>>3528 Right. Let me get this straight. You made a change.org petition about him jacking off and he deleted the screenshot of it and then moved the posts about it to /q/? >What was I supposed to think? That's fair but it turns out he was just moving them to /q/. >This all reeks of disingenous after-the-fact justification for deleting the screenshot of the petition. What justification does he need? How many times did kalyx delete the video of him jerking off? >Which you deemed "harmful" because it "allowed for criticism." That's a big twist on what was said in those logs. For context: 2017-06-03 18:40:47Appleman1234And you were helpful, but you were also harmful 2017-06-03 18:40:51vantablackHow was it harmful? 2017-06-03 18:41:35Appleman1234by presenting information that allowed additional criticism with communication 2017-06-03 18:41:49vantablackwhat? 2017-06-03 18:43:50Appleman1234without communication* 2017-06-03 18:44:16vantablackit was harmful because it allowed people to criticize you, you mean? 2017-06-03 18:46:07Appleman1234It was harmful, because you didn't communicate before doing so, and because you posting something that could be taken out of context without providing context. 2017-06-03 18:46:31Appleman1234and sure people can criticize me until the cows come home >>3529 >First off, these were not "personal attacks." This was a complaint about actions you took. What? Your petition about him jerking off is a complaint about his actions? fuarrrk off. >You're framing the situation in a way that absolves you of all fault He deleted your screenshot about him jerking off and moved a thread about it to /q/. He's not done anything wrong in the first place.

>>3530 Yeah, that's not the full convo. Nice job chopping off huge chunks of it. 2017-06-03 18:36:23vantablackso wait how was the posting logs about the uploader being broken thing bad 2017-06-03 18:36:31Appleman1234Yes your past actions get responing to your priorities because of what you are known to be 2017-06-03 18:36:46vantablackwhat? 2017-06-03 18:36:46Appleman1234vantablack: it was bad in the same way kalyx deleting the site without asking was bad 2017-06-03 18:36:50vantablack?!?!?! 2017-06-03 18:36:55vantablackwait how 2017-06-03 18:36:56vantablackwhat 2017-06-03 18:36:59Appleman1234it was talking an action without communicating 2017-06-03 18:37:09Appleman1234taking an action without communicating 2017-06-03 18:37:32vantablackI didn't think you'd mind, I thought I was just being helpful 2017-06-03 18:37:34Appleman1234as I said to kalyx on his mumble, you could have sent me an email , you could have asked me 2017-06-03 18:37:39vantablackLike... one less thing for you to respond to. 2017-06-03 18:37:46vantablackThat 2017-06-03 18:37:50vantablackThat's why I posted it. 2017-06-03 18:38:01Appleman1234vantablack: You were being helpful but at the same, you were also being untrustworthy 2017-06-03 18:38:17Appleman1234at the same time* 2017-06-03 18:38:18vantablackI didn't realize the uploader being broken was somehow confidential knowledge 2017-06-03 18:38:27vantablackOr you being aware that the uploader is broken, I guess? 2017-06-03 18:38:34Appleman1234it isn't that it is confidental knowledge 2017-06-03 18:38:57Appleman1234it is the presentation of information for one purpose, is not the same as presentation of information for another 2017-06-03 18:39:15Appleman1234and whilst the two purposes can be interchanged sometimes, that isn't always the case >What? Your petition about him jerking off is a complaint about his actions? fuarrrk off. No, but everything else in that thread following the posting and deletion of the screenshot was. >He deleted your screenshot about him jerking off and moved a thread about it to /q/. He's not done anything wrong in the first place. I guess the wider issue here is Appleman's style of moderation and selective enforcement of site rules, but that's a whole different topic entirely.

What I'd recommend: 1. Take /q/ off /mega/ 2. Move all these drama threads to /q/. Then all the people brewing soykaf about ".jp vs. .org" can have their own containment board and everyone else can go back to having a good time :)

>how was the posting logs about the uploader being broken thing bad >it was bad in the same way kalyx deleting the site without asking was bad

>>3533 THIS A BILLION TIMES THIS /q/ shouldn't be on /mega/ what the fuarrrk does meta soykaf concern the average lainon?

>>3533 This thread has absolutely nothing to do with ".jp vs. .org." I cannot understand how you could possibly be able to misconstrue this as a ".jp vs. .org" thing, unless you don't actually have a clue about what's being talked about right now.

>>3532 Ok. There's nothing wrong with the bit you posted either. It's not the bit we were talking about (when he said it was harmful). He's saying he distrusts your motives in posting his chat logs without asking him. Considering what's happened here, so do I. >No, but everything else in that thread following the posting and deletion of the screenshot was. You mean all the stuff that's right here in the thread you're posting to now? >I guess the wider issue here is Appleman's style of moderation and selective enforcement of site rules, but that's a whole different topic entirely. Wait, which is it? A wider issue or a whole different topic. If you've problems state them directly, don't go making a petition to see his dick and then whinge when it gets deleted and then complain that actually the real problem is some other thing. >>3533 I tend to agree. Most people just don't care any more. It's been taking off /q/ in the past for less drama than this.

>>3535 Thanks my friend. I just worry that it wouldn't be easily changed in the board code or that appleman/mods would be too lazy.

>>3539 Bitch i would code that soykaf myself if necessary. As long as appleman agrees with the idea, that has to be implemented asap.

>>3537 >You mean all the stuff that's right here in the thread you're posting to now? There was a period of about an hour or so between the posts getting deleted (and the thread being locked) and this sticky actually being created, wherein I had no choice to assume I was being blatantly censored. No reply was made within the thread announcing this moving of replies, so what was I supposed to think? >Wait, which is it? A wider issue or a whole different topic. Basically, I feel as if he had no reason to be so offended over the Change.org petition. He could've easily taken the Change.org petition as a joke and moved on, but instead he pulled the whole "consequences have actions" shtick. In his whole thing about "consequences having actions," the consequences (of copyright and defamation) would only apply if HE chose to make them apply. He could've easily not given a soykaf and realized that, as the owner of an imageboard, people are going to be naturally inclined to make him the subject of harmless humor now and again.

>>3541 >He could've easily not given a soykaf and realized that, as the owner of an imageboard, people are going to be naturally inclined to make him the subject of harmless humor now and again. this. there was evidently miscommunication on both sides of the issue, but applememe had no real reason to be so upset about that petition in the first place.

>>3540 >>3539 >>3533 You could always just click "hide threads from this board." Or, alternatively, stop fostering an environment that compels people to have such gripes about the administration to begin with. but your best bet's going to be just hiding threads from this board.

>>3543 That doesn't solve the issue that having /q/ on /mega/ attracts nonfat-soykaf drinkers. They want attention, without /q/ on /mega/ they won't have that. What are the advantages of having /q/ on /mega/? Because if there are only downsides, i don't think it can be argued against.

>>3528 >It wasn't all at once, either. First you deleted the screenshot of the Change.org petition. Then you began deleting specific replies that referenced it. Then you locked the thread. Then you deleted every single reply after it was first mentioned. And only an hour or so later you made this sticky. also, (FILE WAS DELETED Due to off topic Rule 4 breach) wasn't even added to explain the deletion until after the thread was merged

Kalyx never deleted the posts showing the fake masturbation video because it was clearly fake and he knew it was a joke. There are many screenshots of kalyx playing along.

>>3541 >what was I supposed to think? Yeah that's fair, but, ultimately, you thought wrong and you weren't censored. >He could've easily taken the Change.org petition as a joke and moved on Yeah that's easy to say when it's not your face that's on the front of it. Ok, he didn't take your crude and personal joke well, that's not a censorship issue or a moderation style issue. More than that, it's basic social courtesy. Your joke has gotten under someone's skin. You don't keep pushing or make out that they're the dick because they didn't find it funny. >>3543 >stop fostering an environment that compels people to have such gripes about the administration to begin with. What do you mean? These gripes have nothing to do with 99% of the people here. It's all been interpersonal bullsoykaf. So, yeah, if you don't care, just use the hide threads from this board thing. Taking it off mega is a good idea imo. Sage for that sake.

>>3546 >>3541 That's the difference between Appleman and Kalyx. Kalyx plays along with jokes, Appleman issues Order 66 on them.

>>3547 someone who can't take a joke like that isn't fit to run a chan

>>3549 Wait how is that correlated to the administration of an ib?

>>3536 >This thread has absolutely nothing to do with ".jp vs. .org." It has everything to do with lainchan.jp. Every criticism of Appleman1234 or lainchan.org is a part of an ongoing campaign to destroy the site. Now that lainchan.jp exists you are hereby no longer permitted to criticize Appleman1234 or lainchan.org indefinitely. If you have a problem with absolutely anything going on here, go back to lainchan.jp.

>>3547 This guy gets it. Most users here agree some level of privacy is a necessity in this day an age. I know I wouldn't want my face on any chan as the butt of some unfunny joke. If the person who made that change.org post's IP were to leak as a "joke", I am pretty sure he wouldn't take it lightly. >>3548 There's plenty of differences, the biggest probably being Appleman is loyal to the community and wouldn't sell the site (nor put himself in the position to NEED to). Also, in case you're not aware Kalyx admins a new site. You should go there since his sense of humor means something to you.

>>3557 Privacy? That pic is already publicly available on Appleman's site. In fact, it has been posted here numerous times as well. >>3551 >Now that lainchan.jp exists you are hereby no longer permitted to criticize Appleman1234 or lainchan.org indefinitely. This is satire, right? Because you cannot be serious right now.

>>3559 >This is satire, right? Because you cannot be serious right now. Sadly I cannot tell. Either way it does seem to represent the sentiment that most of the staff and users here have. They will never have to change anything or respond to any criticism ever again because they can always deflect and say "if you don't like it here..."

>>3560 Oh don't be silly. Sure, there's been a lot of shiIling recently and you can't expect people just to ignore that but plenty of people have responded to this on its own merits as well. Thing is, there are shiIls here, kalyx flat out admitted it and so long as that's a reality it's not unreasonable for people to be suspicious. It's not ideal but there's not really much can be done about it unless you can convince kalyx and co to stop. Anyway, as much as we don't have infinite patience for them I doubt they have infinite patience for this. It'll blow over in time.

>>3557 this is a joke, right? appleman /bought/ the site because kalyx was born in soykaf circumstances and was incapable of running it. are you trying to say that was kalyx's fault?

>>3562 sigh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy Kalyx is poor, kalyx is not guilty of being poor, therefore kalyx is not guilty of the way he handled lainchan. See the problem with your argument? He sold the website AND he fuarrrked up the website every now and then if he felt like it, AND he fuarrrked users every now and then if he felt that it would be funny for him and the balllickers around him. He isn't guilty of being poor, he is guilty of being a consistently horrible administrator.

>>3565 So everyone that posts here came here after Appleman1234 bought the site? I find that hard to believe. If anything we're losing members. Not gaining them. Especially after lainchan.jp.

>>3503 >>3503 >>3503 That this thread is called "Personal Attacks and Targeted Media Campaigns" is dishonest in and of itself. Way to go, Applefam.

>>3568 What does any sentence of your reply has to do with anything in mine? I pointed your fallacy, now you use your feelings as arguments. "feeling that we're losing members" isn't an argument, we have the same posts per hour, afaik we don't have any other metrics to measure userbase. Your feelings are not a metric.

>>3570 >What does any sentence of your reply has to do with anything in mine? Because you're saying that Kalyx was a terrible administrator yet we're all literally here because of him, not because of Appleman.

>>3569 >That this thread is called "Personal Attacks and Targeted Media Campaigns" is dishonest in and of itself. Way to go, Applefam. fuarrrk off. "applefam" can do what he wants. if you dont like it here, go back to jp.

If .jp is so great, why are all their mods over here?

>>3503 >You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf. Actually, it sounds like you are sir. Admit you only say the thread doesn't meet the quality requirements of /r/ because you don't like where it went. There is a fuarrrking festival of soykaf-tier content on /r/ at the moment: https://lainchan.org/r/catalog.html >Political images n memes >Anyone have a link to that SEL suicide cult imageboard? >Tell me about your waifu (or husbando) lainanon You don't owe an explanation to anyone. But if you do, come up with a better excuse.

>>3582 >>3572 >Because you're saying that Kalyx was a terrible administrator yet we're all literally here because of him, not because of Appleman. Yes, kalyx created the website, that does not make him a good administrator. These 2 facts are not correlated, you can visit the dictionary for a more thorough explanation.

>>3584 I'd prefer Kalyx's controlled chaos to Appleman's micromanaging autism any day of the week.

>>3586 >I'd prefer Kalyx's controlled chaos to Appleman's micromanaging autism any day of the week. then go back to lainchan.jp and be his bitch

>>3509 >Fascism lol

>>3509 >Fascism isn't cyberpunk, Lain. apparently it is >>>/hum/917

>>3586 YOU prefer it, good for you, isn't that exactly the purpose of .jp? Why are you using your personal preference as objective arguments? I prefer pizza without condiments, should i create a thread explaining why pizza without condiments is more yummy? No, that's fuarrrking stupid, it might be less yummy for other people and i can't argue them into eating my type of pizza.

>>3599 There's a difference. Appleman is objectively bad for the community. He's more akin to putting poisonous mushrooms on pizza, which I would object to.

>>3602 >Appleman is objectively bad for the community You cannot say something is objectively something else if you don't have an example to provide. Why is he objectively bad, exactly? If you just spill random statements nobody can argue with you, that's a cheap sophist tactic so you can always feel on top, even if you have nothing to say.

>>3604 The evidence is all around you, you just choose to disregard it. Not keeping backups. Not making sure he had the VPS secured. Deleting the board list as a way of introducing himself and to somehow (?) ensure "quality", then refusing to explain himself. Trying to enforce "quality" by handing out warnings for every other thread. Not being willing to even tell us the handles of his moderators. Being unwilling to co-operate with others. Everything he's done point to him being incompetent. That's the gyst. As long as he's admin, people will keep leaving and quality of posts will decline.

>>3608 >Not keeping backups. That was stupid, but it has been handled already, what else do you want to be done? >Not making sure he had the VPS secured. Yeah that was bad, but it's been solved, what else do you want done? >Deleting the board list as a way of introducing himself and to somehow (?) ensure "quality", then refusing to explain himself. I'm not really sure of what you're talking about, can't say anything about this one. >Trying to enforce "quality" by handing out warnings for every other thread. It's been working, i don't see any fishy warnings or deletions, could you provide examples where these warnings were not based on the rules? >Not being willing to even tell us the handles of his moderators The moderators are under no obligation to have a handle, a lot of them just moderate. Some of them have handles and you can join IRC and ask who are the mods, it was never hidden from the public. >Being unwilling to co-operate with others. Well that is an administrative issue, i'm a user, i post in the suggestion thread and a lot of what i post is solved, so i'm pretty happy with cooperation. >Everything he's done point to him being incompetent Well, i don't really agree with you, he's put in a lot of work into this place and maybe he doesn't delegate enough, but that has nothing to do with incompetence. This place is fine, low quality threads are being warned and properly deleted when necessary like never before (remember civ?), suggestions are being heard (have you ever tried to suggest kalyx anything without licking his balls?). I understand that you might think he's the devil and this place is impossible to visit, but that's not something that can be solved at all. "I don't like him because he fuarrrked up the passwords" is something that you can say when you're leaving the place, nobody can change what has happened in the past, only the future. And precautions have been taken regarding that mistake. It seems to me that you're expecting someone flawless, this isn't Tesla corporation, it's just a place for people to chill at, and it's pretty chill and comfy for me. If it's not for you but you still want to remain here, maybe you should criticize what can be solved, the past cannot be solved, Lain. If you don't want to remain here, that's ok too. What bothers me is this idea that "if you remain on .org you choose to disregard appleman as the devil he is!!!", that's absurd and absolutist. He has his flaws and i recognize them, but this community is better for me than .jp, so i'd rather criticize what .org staff can solve, not what has happened in the past, yeah?

>>3609 >i don't see any fishy warnings or deletions read >>3582

>>3612 Yeah that was weird, the point remains though. I come from the assumption that, if you're posting here, you want to remain and improve this community, yeah? If that is the case, your suggestion basically boils down to "appleman is satan and we should all purge lainchan". And that isn't really an option see? I know this community has its flaws, but i want to remain here, i like it here, so the best i can do is talk, figure it out what happened and try to improve, don't you think?

>so the best i can do is talk, figure it out what happened and try to improve Except Appleman isn't the kind of person that can be talked to or reasoned with. in his mind, he's always right. Look at how he responded after people told him to bring the board list back. Look at the log from >>3523 and how he demonized an IRC user for pointing out a bug. Hell, look at the whole situation in this thread and how it was "handled". >>3613 you want to remain and improve this community, yeah? Of course. Which is why I dislike Appleman. Him leaving would be a huge positive for the site, in my opinion.

>>3615 >Except Appleman isn't the kind of person that can be talked to or reasoned with. in his mind, he's always right Have you actually dealt with him? He can be difficult to deal with sometimes, but nowhere nea the complexity of dealing with kalyx, people are difficult in general, everybody has their own problems. With appleman at the very least there is a guideline, a logic you can follow, with kalyx it was always how much of a nut sucker you were, if you sucked his nut good, he would listen to you, otherwise it'd be a hopeless task. appleman's handling of that IRC user isn't good, i agree, but you're speaking as if we had a better option. Kalyx literally put people on camera and made fun of them, always craving attention no matter what, you really wanna compare a mean, spoiled child to appleman's behavior? He's the owner of the site and what we have, and if you compare it with the previous owner, it's a pretty good deal. >Of course. Which is why I dislike Appleman. Him leaving would be a huge positive for the site, in my opinion. But don't you agree that this is just plain silly? I always disliked kalyx and when he decided to make /civ/, lainchan became so unbearable i had to leave until the elections were over. But it was his website, it would be silly to ask HIM to leave, when I was the one who didn't like HIS site. It's my preference, and i was free to leave, so i did. This website is appleman's website, same as it was kalyx's. Imagine how absurd it would be to ask kalyx to leave 1 year ago?

>>3608 >Not keeping backups. I did keep backups, however they were not stored off site due to bandwidth restrictions, and also due to the belief the existing inherited backup mechanism was successfully copying the backups offsite (there was no errors its logs), and I didn't have access to investigate further. I already fixed this backup mechanism at least 3 times, before the server was wiped. In short my mistake was only doing a partial audit of the backup procedure and trusting that the previous implementation was still working as it was documented. As for backups now, backups are being taken using a software solution available on Github (https://github.com/Appleman1234/safeandsound) and stored encrypted in at least 2 offsite locations in addition to any local archives on the server. >Not making sure he had the VPS secured. The VPS was secured and a complete audit was done and this was flagged as possible risk, but with a low expected value. There was just one password I didn't have and I didn't reset, because I made the mistake of believing kalyx when he said he didn't have access and that the reset password was not tied to his account but to another staff member's. kalyx has said that he said he didn't have access because he didn't remember he had access. I thought kalyx would contact me when receiving a strange email, given I had been forwarding mail sent to him at admin@lainchan.org for months, and I said as much when I was dragged into the soykaf.org Mumble. What is being done now regarding VPS security, Passwords and access controls have been reset to secure values, ongoing security audits and improvements in terms of security configuration are being made, with several lainons undergoing system administration / server administration staff induction paths. >Deleting the board list as a way of introducing himself and to somehow (?) ensure "quality", then refusing to explain himself. I didn't introduce myself by deleting the board list. I introduced myself in Questions for the new owner thread. The board list or top bar was never deleted, it was hidden, and it was hidden because having to learning something is a good thing, and I didn't realize how much of a latency there was with regards to cultural inertia there was, also because people were squabbling over the board list and this was a method of mitigation at the time. Please note this isn't full answer I mentioned in my original post, I still don't have the time to draft that at present. I am not refusing to explain myself both now and then, I am just delaying the explanation due to temporal constraints, I would really love a time machine or two. The board list was restored after various requests from lainons. What is happening now with the board list ? Now we have a regular board list that is at least semi-configurable with JavaScript, and has several different aliasing combinations for different peoples' tastes. >Trying to enforce "quality" by handing out warnings for every other thread. Yes I issue like to issue public warnings before deleting threads / posts and am more visible than some other staff members in my approach to gentler moderation and giving moderation actions thought and due process. Previous staff members would just delete threads instead of warning them. I don't believe I am trying to enforce quality, I believe I am trying encourage quality, and facilitate cultural and individual growth of both Lainchan and Lainons, but I understand that there is a bunch of Lainons that are comfy in their cultural traditions and level of growth / existing post quality standards and that might be upset at being warned or asked to make a better thread. >Not being willing to even tell us the handles of his moderators It isn't a question of my willingness, it is a question of precedent, e.g. Staff like lainons / users should have the same right of choice of identity level when posting / interacting with others. See >>3217 for what has been said on the matter and see >>>/archive/2/ for the previous moderation self introduction thread restored from backup. >Being unwilling to co-operate with others. I am willing to co-operate with others, and I believe I have co-operated with others in the past and in the present, if you can provide specific examples that you find particularly uncooperative then please let me know. For example, in the past I cooperated with the former staff when they took the AGM off topic. I cooperated with the former staff when the dragged me into an impromptu Mumble meeting, even implementing some of their proposals. Please note that co-operating with others is not the same as giving them what they want just because they demand it . >As long as he's admin, people will keep leaving and quality of posts will decline. Time will tell, whether people use a website or participate in a community is their choice.

>>3617 your given example of cooperation is rather one of an attempted placation. cooperation requires multiple parties working in tandem towards a common goal, tackling separate tasks and combining their efforts. >even implementing some of their proposals. is the key, here. if no party, other than yourself, is able to implement those proposals, there is no cooperation, no collaboration. you might maintain a position of authority, removing e.g. staff who do not act in good faith, but as long as you remain a bottleneck through which everything must pass, there can be no cooperation. and this unwillingness to cooperate comes from a seeming inability to trust others and a paranoid need to micromanage self-image. from these two factors: "i wish to bring this thing to your attention so that things maybe will get better" -- becomes -- a personal attack "i was trying to defend you when you were not around" -- becomes -- going behind your back and rumour-mongering "i want to implement this thing to improve the website" -- becomes -- attempted belittling and undermining your authority and so on. i guess i'm not expecting anything to actually change by posting this, having been ignored / misconstrued already previously, but still can't bring myself to stop trying.

>>3618 you are just rehashing all of the reasons the staff went and made lainchan.jp. if these criticisms were going to yield results, it would have happened before or immediately after the split. months later and nothing having changed doesn't bode well for the future. of course there will be those that say everything is fine, but obviously there are enough people having problems with the way things are run and it is abundantly obvious that not all of them are from lainchan.jp.

>>3618 That is not the key at all. If you want to implement stuff, then you can, all the code is on Github, feel free to submit pull requests and patches. If you want to implement alternate stuff or suggestions then there are threads in /q/ and IRC channels for that as well. Other parties are able to implement these proposals, but currently some of them have chosen avoidance rather than participation when tasks were offered or delegated to them. I don't recall people reporting bugs as being a personal attack, and I don't believe it will become that. If some one wants to implement something to improve the website, go ahead make the proposal or patch or pull request and it will be reviewed, not just by me but by other members of staff. If you want stuff to change, then be the change you want to see. I don't understand what point you are trying to make, can you please clarify ? >>3620 Criticism alone is insufficient to invoke change. You actually have to have a better idea and implement it , and also be able to demonstrate with metrics and criteria why your idea is better., as well as convince others that your idea is better and even then some better ideas don't even make it because worse is better or the other person used legislation or marketing to bury your good idea. As far as I know non of the people that actually left to make lainchan.jp actually gave working with me / collaborating with me a chance, they were all too busy with their real life commitments or didn't even bother to make time to converse with myself or other members of the staff team or respond to the basic questions like availability for discussions and what staff were interested in working on.

>>3624 As far as I know non of the people that actually left to make lainchan.jp actually gave working with me / collaborating with me a chance, As far as you know? Who could possibly know better than you? Do you have to ask other people what goes on in your life? >didn't even bother to make time to converse with myself or other members of the staff team I call bullsoykaf.

>>3624 bro there is so much to do here other than creating code on github holy soykaf. you have to manage a community first before you code some cool soykaf.

>>3617 you owned the site for 7 months and could not complete an "audit" of the backup system????

>>3617 don't forget you were about to cry on mumble and it was kalyx who helped you reclaim access to the vps control panel.

>>3529 >>3569 The thread is titled that because responding to your actions is not the sole purpose of this thread, it is just one of the parts that got written first. >>3533 1. Is done See https://lainchan.org/news.html for more information. 2. is Mostly done. The reason it took longer is because it wasn't just the configuration change to remove /q/ from mega, it was also a theme clone of mega to make megaq, and the news post to write, and the Javascript for boardlist alias to give users the choice of mega pointing to megaq if they want it. >>3541 I didn't pull "consequences have actions", I said actions had consequences, and I clarified several times in the IRC conversation that I wasn't talking about anything I would do to you personally, I was talking about the side effects and results of your actions that you may not have been aware of in your attempt to a joke / soykaf post. >>3548 I am not Kalyx, I can never be Kalyx, if you want Kalyx then please go visit Kalyx in person, email him and ask him for his address, or even better show up at Defcon and offer to pay for his hotel room, last I heard he was looking for people to do that. >>3582 I don't admit that, the Lainchan Trivia thread never met the quality requirements for /r/ because the poster of OP incorrectly conflated trivia about staff members with trivia about a website / community, and instead of rescuing the post by actually posting trivia, there was just off topic discussion about gentalia, and several insider trading references which didn't elaborate and spilled soykaf all over the place. Regarding why this thread is called Personal attacks and Targeted Media campaigns, That is largely because of >>>/q/3490 which confirms both in that thread and in several other threads that the posts made by that poster is either kalyx or someone else posting on behalf of kalyx. Listing which posts in threads would be a violation of privacy and a breach of staff conduct, despite kalyx being former staff. However 19 of the posts in >>>/q/1866 were made by that poster , 7 of the posts in >>>/q/2900 and 3 of the posts in this thread were made by that poster and most of the posts involve mentioning kalyx or lainchan.jp either as text or image directly. Another example is given below of a series of common threads that first originated on lainchan.jp and were crossposted elsewhere include https://www.cyberpunkforums.com/viewtopic.php?id=3856 https://www.reddit.com/r/8chan/comments/66og1x/lainchanjp_is_the_new_lainchan/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Lain/comments/66o1lc/lainchanjp_is_the_new_lainchan/ https://8ch.net/cyber/res/46597.html#46597 https://0ch.org/0040/res/3818.html https://uboachan.net/ot/res/17472.html https://sushigirl.us/silicon/res/545.html https://nextchan.org/tech/thread/117 https://boards.420chan.org/tech/res/120978.php https://rbt.asia/g/thread/60213095/ https://7chan.org/sci/res/16494.html Please judge for yourself. Lastly, the personal attacks , I am not saying that jokes made at my expense are all personal attacks, that wasn't the intention of naming this thread with this title. I am fine with people making jokes about me , so long as they are tagged as jokes, because some satire just reads like soykaf and rule 3 breaches and confuses people that are do not have the implicit context you may have when joking. I wasn't fine with my image (my image is my copyright and associated licensing) being used on a change.org petition that was NSFW (at least in terms of supporting text) and was a violation of change.org's terms of service, however that is not the reason the image was deleted, it was deleted because it was incorrectly hyperfocusing the thread off of lainchan.org trivia and onto the fake masturbation video tradition meme. If I was trying to get upset the petition, why would I have spent over 1.5 hours talking to vantablack on IRC, why would I have not just deleted the post, deleted the thread, derezzed vantablack from both the IRC and chan , deleted all his posts on the chan etc ? I didn't ask vantablack to take the petition down, I only stated I would be writing letters of dispute to change.org because the petition violated their terms of service. Regarding the personal attacks, this is referring to stuff like >>>/q/3319 and similar, with ad hominem being used and constructive criticism and elaboration not being provided.

>>3635 kalyx was asking to split a room with someone. you know everyone at defcon shares rooms? why are you lying?

>>3635 >However 19 of the posts in >>>/q/1866 were made by that poster , 7 of the posts in >>>/q/2900 and 3 of the posts in this thread were made by that poster and most of the posts involve mentioning kalyx or lainchan.jp either as text or image directly. Holy fuarrrkballs, kalyx is probably posting here more than on .jp.

>>3618 >this unwillingness to cooperate comes from a seeming inability to trust others and a paranoid need to micromanage self-image. from these two factors: >"i wish to bring this thing to your attention so that things maybe will get better" -- becomes -- a personal attack >"i was trying to defend you when you were not around" -- becomes -- going behind your back and rumour-mongering >"i want to implement this thing to improve the website" -- becomes -- attempted belittling and undermining your authority THIS. >>3637 >why are you lying? There have been small lies like this peppered throughout his responses in this thread. Everything subtly altered to fit his narrative. He goes back on things he's said and contradicts himself. Example: >vantablack: so wait how was the posting logs about the uploader being broken thing bad >Appleman1234: it was bad in the same way kalyx deleting the site without asking was bad vs. >>3527 >This is the 3rd time you have posted IRC logs without asking or communicating, which whilst understandable , isn't polite. The whole thing about him pulling "oh the thread was always against the rules" out of his ass to justify locking it when in reality >>3582 is what really happened. >>3527 >I flagged it to vantablack and lainchan staff as a low quality post and rule 4 breach vs. >>3528 >The thread was never "flagged" to me. You acknowledged the existence of the thread numerous times in the IRC but never once "flagged" it. (I know in this case it boils down to one person's word vs. another's but I personally don't believe the thread was ever flagged because the Rule 4 warning didn't even appear on it until after it took a turn Appleman wasn't happy with, i.e. the fap petition) and then there's the way he hypocritically flip-flops on whether or not intentions matter in the IRC logs posted by >>3523 (the whole log is a shining example his narcissism) >>3635 >incorrectly hyperfocusing the thread Apparently four posts is "hyperfocusing." The thread didn't veer that direction until after the image was deleted. Saying that he called the thread "Personal Attacks and Targeted Media Campaigns" in reference to >>>/q/3319 which is completely irrelevant and was posted weeks ago. >>3617 Twisting the definition of the word "co-operate" to include just about anything involving interacting with other people. For instance: >I cooperated with the former staff when they took the AGM off topic. That wasn't "co-operation". That was railroading a conversation. Someone else even called him out on it, stating something like "conversations are supposed to flow naturally." And the screenshot >>3615 posted is accurate about how he can be "condescending and passive aggressive as fuarrrk." All of this leads me to believe Appleman exhibits a classic case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I am sure that isn't the only mental health issue Appleman has (others have pointed out he is probably somewhere on the Autism spectrum), but it is the most relevant as it explains a lot of his current behavior. Please note that I am not attempting to use mental illness as an insult like >>>/q/3319 , but just bringing up the stuff that is directly relevant. Just look at the way he lashed out at >>3523 for just "presenting information that allowed for criticism"or any of the previous examples of lies and truth distortions I pointed out. All hallmarks of narcissistic personality disorder. Appleman exhibits many Narcissistic traits and this is an exhausting topic to deal with for precisely that reason. Sadly, no amount of arguing can change that and his website is his website.

>>3641 none of this proves its kalyx.

>>3635 >Another example is given below of a series of common threads that first originated on lainchan.jp and were crossposted elsewhere include HOW DARE A WEBSITE PROMOTE THEMSELVES!!11 Why don't you try it, sweetheart?

>>3644 >none of this proves its kalyx. Kalyx admitting it's Kalyx proves it's Kalyx.

>>3635 >so long as they are tagged as jokes Jokes must be tagged. What's next, trigger warnings?

>>3647 https://lainchan.org/q/res/1866.html#3486 https://lainchan.org/q/res/1866.html#3490 cmon bruh

>>3642 >Appleman1234: it was bad in the same way kalyx deleting the site without asking was bad Did he really say that? Did he *really* expect Kalyx to contact him and say: "Dear Mr. Appleman: I have discovered that I still have access to the lainchan.org VPS. Would it be alright with you, sir, if I went ahead and used the credentials you just sent me to delete the site? Please get back to me ASAP." If so, he is out of his fuarrrking mind. >All of this leads me to believe Appleman exhibits a classic case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I thought spending $5000 to purchase an image board made it self-evident? Also I love how everyone suggests that Junk and Seph starting *their own website* is a power grab when in reality Appleman becoming administrator is the most quintessential example of a power grab you can possibly make. >He was not an administrator, moderator, or janitor. >He had no power or influence. >He gained the highest level power and authority possible. >With money. Now *that* is a power grab.

>>3650 >Did he *really* expect Kalyx to contact him and say: You have to remember that kalyx deleted the server as a "protest". He expected kalyx to come and talk to him if he had problems, not just delete soykaf.

>>3651 you understand that, the point is they had been trying to reason with appleman for upwards of 7 months.

>>3649 Still doesn't prove it was kalyx.

>>3653 b...but the screenshots and the IPs on an anonymous image board s-says so?

>>3654 ip's? where? YEah kalyx took that screenshot but he also posted it on the huge telegram chatroom where I got it.

I still don't understand why there are people posting that Kalyx was better and soykaf like that. I mean, you have your imageboard, kalyx included, you are free to go there and enjoy it. Why would you even come here?

>>3656 because we care about both lainchans. jp shouldn't have to exist. appleman should get his soykaf together.

>>3655 I mean from the admin side, they can see ips and other fun soykaf on each post. I'm just guessing they're the same anyway but it could have been anyone in that telegram chat... including me *snicker*

>>3650 >people think seph and junk were making a power grab jesus christ, really? what would they possibly have to gain by making a new site with less users?

>>3635 I disagree. There are many ways that more than one person can have the same IP address.

>>3653 1. It fits his behavior 2. He was suspected of doing that for a long time 3. Mods confirm the person who posted admitting it was kalyx, talking like kalyx and using the kalyx name was also posting in other threads Yes, we do not have a blood sample and a recording of kalyx typing those words, but we have as much as physically possible. From that perspective, you can't prove we don't live in a simulation either, but at that level of assumption based on nothing, it nothing matters.

>>3653 >>3653 >>3654 >>3655 >>3656 >>3658 >>3660 >>3661 kalyx. kalyx. kalyx. kalyx. kalyx. kalyx. kalyx. kalyx. can we get back off-topic please?

>>3657 What do you mean by "get his soykaf together"? Can you be specific instead of subjectively generic? This whole "i'll make this baseless claim!!" *lain comes along, explains throughly* "hahaha i'll make the same baseless claim, again!" is getting really old and really tiresome. Luckily /q/ isn't on /mega/ anymore.

>>3650

>>3658 Nah, it makes no sense. If the second screenshot were faked the participants of the conversation would know it and would presumably let us know and in the second screenshot kalyx says he posted the first. It's not like it's an incredibly surprising twist anyway.

>>3662 I'm trying but all I learned from this thread is that appleman doesn't want to record himself fapping... I mean that's totally understandable and is a weird thing to announce but here we are. Really, I think this is just to test out the merge function on the live site :/ >>3665 Yeah I guess it's just good to know that the different set of mods still talk.

>>3670 >all I learned from this thread is that appleman doesn't want to record himself fapping Don't remind me of it, Lain. It still hurts.

lel

>>3527 Jesus fuarrrk, though In what way did he not "elaborate on his opinion"? He started a trivia thread, SHARED SOME TRIVIA and the post itself was reasonably eloquent P.S. thank you >>3569 for posting that image I had been looking for it for some time

>>3573 >us vs them mentality >"DO NOT TALK WONG AGAINST OUR GREAT LEADER" the fuarrrk?