Information Architecture

While there is an existing thread generating ideas for a new board structure, I wanted to start a separate one to specifically receive feedback on my existing proposal. Three of the suggestions I've made have already been adopted so only a few more would be necessary to actually realize my vision for the boards. There is already an overwhelming consensus that there should be fewer boards. Now we just have to decide what those are. Please read the comments and footnotes before responding. Let's not waste each other's time. Thank you. /sci/ ence as is /tech/ nology as is /cult/ ure merge lit and cult (3) /λ/ as is /μ/ merge diy with new maker/projects board /psy/ *chonautics or *chology merge drgs and zzz (4) /feels/ as is /q/ lainchan meta /r/ andom see (5) comments: the status quo always has a constituency and so by default there will always be more advocates for the existing structure than any given potential restructure with splintered opinions. nevertheless, it would be wise to re-organize the boards as would be best for the community as a whole and not cater to individual lain's personal 'pet' boards. everyone has one that they love and adore just as it is and don't want it to be touched ever. that isn't a good enough reason to leave things as they are. after all, others will adopt this same exact attitude towards new or merged boards following the restructure. some of them will even be those that swore up and down that they would absolutely hate the changes. keep in mind that those that dislike changes are always the loudest. those that like changes don't go out of their way to say so. some people want things to stay as they are forever, some immediately like changes for what they are, but many slowly warm up to things as they see how it goes. the content of lainchan doesn't have to change. that isn't the purpose of a restructure. the point is to fix a long-standing issue with poor information architecture. if people have to think, deliberate, or ask where a post they want to make belongs, we're doing it wrong. people greatly underestimate how much influence IA can have on the flourishing of a community. despite restructuring being annoying for everyone it is still worthwhile in the end. results: [ sci | tech | cult ] [ λ | μ ] [ psy | feels ] [ q | r ] footnotes: 1. 95% of the /diy/ threads are tech related and many /tech/ threads have a diy ethos. the #diy channel on the lainchan irc even has electronics in the title. lains suggest that one or two "hacking wood"-type threads in tech would be all the merged /tech/ would need to cover almost all of the stuff in /diy/ that isn't electronics related. remember, the word "technology" does not mean only "electronics". if the new /tech/ moves too fast to support diy threads, diy would be integrated into /μ/. update: idea aborted. diy will be integrated into the new /μ/ instead. 2. new board: /soc/iety. /civ/ would deleted and replaced with /soc/. most of the discussion on /civ/ belongs on the /pol/ of other image boards. all that having it does is attract some of the worst members (and threads) of the community. i'm sure there are a lot of /civ/ posters that don't post on any of the other boards. if we delete it and replace it with a /soc/ with the title "cyberpunk culture, philosophy, and ethos" it would attract much higher quality threads such as these found on cyberpunk forums 'awareness' subforum: a. selfies, avatars, and online pictorial representations of oneself b. Are we sliding into a dystopia. c. Do you feel that? d. Digital Disruption Has Already Happened perhaps not all of these fit, but you get the idea. this is the kind of discussion that i think lainchan would be a great place for, but currently it just doesnt happen. see sts.hks.harvard.edu/about/whatissts.html for more of what im thinking of. even if we don't add a /soc/ i think we ought to delete /civ/. i would volunteer to aggressively moderate /soc/ for its launch. if moderation fails, we can delete it. update: idea put on ice. 3. why should books be separate from anime/film/music? to me this is a no brainer. we already merged weeb. the title of the board would be "cyberpunk media" with the description "anime, art, fashion, film, games, literature, and music" to reflect the mergers. 4. drugs and lucid dreaming are just different means or achieving altered states of consciousness. sometimes people even take drugs before they go to sleep to influence their dreams. why should they be artificially separated? the new title would be "drgzzz: drugs and dreams." 5. /cyb/ was kind of a catch all for topics that didn't quite belong elsewhere. if we organize the boards right, it could have been hidden or deleted altogether. in other words, if the boards cover all of the content which is appropriate for lainchan, we don't need a "leftovers" section, which only encourages brewing soykaf. pretty much every thread currently on /sec/ would fit on /tech/. the few that don't would move to the new /soc/ board. that being said there is content that exists on /r/ and belongs on /r/ that is important to lainchan so it should stay for now. 6. where is /layer/? now hidden. such an esoteric board need not be promoted in the primary navigation when the purpose of the restructure is to consolidate boards. 7. new hidden boards: /a/gora community marketplace, /x/ paranoia board

>>844 >in other words, if the boards cover all of the content which is appropriate for lainchan, we don't need a "leftovers" section, which only encourages brewing soykaf. In my honest opinion, I disagree. There're some kind of topics that, at least I, like to talk about with a specific sort of people. While some discussion may not exactly fit lainchan's theme, I'd really like to know what is lainchan's users take on certain things. And while you're right in your statement that only encourages brewing soykaf, well, i feel like we still should have a board for fun things that doesn't fit anything else. Like the cute anime girls with glasses thread that's been going around since forever. We could fit it on /cult/ but not exactly either. Those are my two cents. >TL;DR please keep a random board

Why call /layer/ /μ/? If anything, that seems like a better name for /tech/ or /diy/, and would have the advantage that the two "making things" boards (programming and diy) would have a distinct naming convention.

>>844 Hm, not sure how I feel about /drg/ being removed, as I quite liked reading about lainons experience with drugs. Also, I really hope /sci/ is better than 4chan's /sci/.

>>856 I never suggested removing it. I suggested merging it. That means all of the existing content in /drg/ would be welcome and encouraged on /psy/.

>>856 >Please read the comments and footnotes before responding. Let's not waste each other's time. Thank you. /psy/ is /drg/ and /zzz/ merged.

>>848 I agree with your sentiments and would like /r/ to stay around too. That's why I kept it in my proposal. I was just trying to suggest that it shouldn't be strictly necessary.

>>851 I'm open to other suggestions!

I read it just now, those are some pretty good suggestions for changes indeed. I was thinking about having a higher level of abstraction by merging the new yet-to-come /sci/ with /lam/, but there might be all sorts of science stuff from astrophysics to ecology and such so there might come some confusing situations with that but it might be interesting to try it. Also /soc/ and /cult/ are good boards, just make sure that both have a clear separation (as now it was suggested that /soc/ would have a title which started with "cyberpunk culture ...").

I still would like to see /diy/ reimagined as /projects/. I think it would be productive to have a shared space where someone working on a game, can meet someone working on music, and someone working on art. Get that cross pollination going. But as it was, I did end up visiting both tech and diy for the same stuff. So if you're not remaking it, better to merge it. Overall this is a great blueprint. I'm down.

No dedicated file-sharing board ? In that case I hope we will have a field will be add to the posting form to share ipfs hashes, as was discussed in the other thread. >>851 Also seconding this. Otherwise, looks good to me.

Can we have zero tolerance for politics in any way, shape or form, bitte?

>>851 >>878 >>879 What would you guys think of dropping /layer/ and making /μ/ the new maker/projects board? As a lain suggested both /λ/ and /μ/ would then be about creating things. There are already a lot of projects born out of the lainchan community so I think a projects board would serve it well. Good suggestion!

>>892 >dropping /layer/ I never used it (though I lurked for a few day after installing the DESUtalk thing), so I feel uncomfortable asking for its death. Still, it would make sense to me to promote the use of steganography on a site-wide level rather than on a single board. Two level of discussion and all, sounds fun. (Good luck defining the moderation rules on hidden messages though.) >making /μ/ the new diy/maker/projects board? As a lain suggested both /λ/ and /μ/ would then be about creating things. Yes please. Definitely.

>>844 I think you make an interesting point about >95% of /diy/ is /tech/ >but wat do with the other 5% It seems there are 3 possible solutions: 1. Ban /tech/ from /diy/, making it the "non-technology-related DIY" board (and then hope it survives) 2. Merge /diy/ into /tech/ (and then make stuff that's not strictly technology—but DIY—allowable) 3. Ban DIY stuff from /tech/ (probably worst option but idk I thought I should list it for completness' sake)

>>896 I think /layer/ makes sense as a "containment" board for DesuTalk and that sort of thing. Don't want images bIoated or fuarrked up by peoples' random conversations in stego just floating around, getting re-saved too much, etc. (And attempting to BAN stego in images is straight up not. an. option. haha)

>>844 ralated to 1: what about arts and crafts instead of diy and a part of cult? or creation in general if that fits more into it. have you at least considered that?

>>892 I'm with >>896, I wasn't involved enough to speak for layer... But I love the idea of getting creators of all types together.

>>899 Yes. I think that would work well in /μ/, the new maker/projects board.

>>844 the Agora board has received enough support to warrant existence, and would be grant for bringing more social users and a bigger presence for lainchan in meatspace see >>355

Quite honestly I was a bit pissed when I opened Lainchan and found out all the boards are gone, but I dunno after reading your post I think you convinced me that it'll be helpful. I'm all up for the OP as you stated it, I don't really think there's something missing, although /zzz/ and /drg/ is a bit odd merge imo

What differentiates /soc/ from /cult/? They some pretty similar in the post. Also, like I said on another thread, I think /feels/ would be better served if it were some kind of advice board. It was getting pretty emo, something more optimistic that offers guidance could help that.

>>925 The /cult/ board would be "cyberpunk media" such as anime, art, film, games, books, and music. As for /feels/ perhaps an appropriate sticky could help direct the board in a more positive direction. If there are many lains in distress, I wouldn't necessarily call that 'emo', but I can see why you would want to incorporate more advice and guidance instead of just dwelling on the problems themselves.

Could change the /tech/ to /navi/?

>>844 Where is /sec/? That definitely deserves its own board as far as I'm concerned. It's a broad topic with a lot of discussion that doesn't quite deserve just being bundled with /tech/.

>>887 Politics is way too popular of a (broad) topic to completely remove. I can't offer a solution, but I can tell you that a zero tolerance policy never works in any case. (Examples: American school's on fighting, /civ/'s temporary zero tolerance policy led to an alarming number of bans, America's "war on drugs", etc.) >>892 I disagree with dropping /layer/. In my opinion, our Russians can keep on doing what they do without us knowing exactly what is going on. They're really good people and they keep things in that board. I only remember once when /layer/ had spilled out and I think there was a major issue happening with DDT that was solved pretty quickly. >>844 I think /muse/ is a cool concept of a board, but how many people are actually interested in this? Also, how does it differ from /lambda/ because I remember a few people had showed some of their projects off in there, and you could easily have a "What are you working on?" general thread. ----- I think /feels/ should be with /cult/ or /soc/ and before anyone jumps down my throat, allow me to explain why: An easy description of /feels/ is a more accepting r9k where people rant about their dysphoria. A lot of the dysphoria is intertwined with how society is flowing, people could easily use their own personal experiences as a way to explain what they think is wrong with society or how it is changing, and they could possibly connect the dots to help them out, at least in understanding and generating some critical thinking on their problems. It might not be a good idea to mix it, but it's something to consider. On a side note, I'm also worried about people saying "Oh /civ/ is now /soc/..interesting." I'm sure there is a lot that could be built off that, i.e. "socialism" because /civ/ was basically just a watered down /pol/. Plus, regarding philosophy/cyberpunk culture, people will argue about whether or not cyberpunk is anarchist -- Which has been an argument since /civ/ was created and these conversations never end well. Those are my thoughts on this, sorry if they're a little chaotic and random.

>>927 I took that to be the meaning of /cult/ already, media, but the name should be something reflecting that. Previously people argued that /cult/ and /civ/ were the same topic, also because the names are ambiguous that way and they misunderstood.

>>939 But /civ/ is a relatively "new" topic on lainchan. It's not as if it was an essential part of this community. I believe you people will do whatever you think is best, and you certainly know more than i do about your userbase, but i can't see how politics fit into a place that has a focus on technology. The argument that technology is tied to politics is pretty weak, technology is also tied to gardening, sleep cycles, food and sex. That doesn't mean those topics are appropriate for Lain.

>>939 Perhaps a compromise could be to hide the board? I think promoting it in the navigation is a bit excessive for such an esoteric board. The Russians will continue to use it regardless.

>>942 I agree with you there. I don't like the discussion of politics on here, because it's really created some animosity between several users and it's really disappointing because they used to be friends. It started out because of our policy that if a lot of users started discussing a topic enough, we would create entire boards dedicated to it. That's the real reason /civ/ was created, originally. A lot of people have expressed a dislike of the politics though, so I'll make sure we bring it up when we're compiling all of the information, suggestions, etc that everyone has told us about. :) >>943 That seems reasonable. I haven't talked to DDT in awhile but he told me that a lot of the russians that post in there rely on lainchan to discuss things that can't be discussed over there, and I like helping with that.

It looks good, but there is something to be said for >>>355 A strength of online communities is the ability to make offline connections. It would be nice to have some space to facilitate that. But personally I would broaden it to something like "/meat/space" that encompasses meetups as well. But it could be argued this could go in /cult/?

>>948 I would think /μ/, /q/, and /r/ would be sufficient for handling meetups both online and offline.

This is silly, but don't forget to update the qrcode on the floral sticker. I have a new laptop coming, and it's gonna be my first sticker on it

>>942 I don't think technology's relation to politics is as casual as it's relation to gardening. Technology and it's progression is intrinsically connected to our economy which informs how we are governed. Not to mention new forms of technology provide new ways to exercise power which in many ways is the essence of politics. That being said i would be against a dedicated politics board. That sort of discussion is better to arise organically. Otherwise you just have a space that's dedicated to soapboxing.

>>959 In principle i agree, technology does play a big role. But lainchan was never this gathering of economy majors to ponder on the implications of technology on society. Also, it's not as if political discussions even talked about technology in the first place, it always boils down to "my barely-researched ideology and economic plans are better than yours and you're stupid and yo mamma is fat!". That's just sad and inappropriate for the kind of place that lainchan is. It's what has driven me away from lainchan since the last election, but of course my opinion alone doesn't carry relevant weight. The problem, for me, is not the subject of "politics", it's the quality of the discussions about politics. Compare any /zzz/, /sec/ or even /r/ discussion to those of /civ/. It seems like an entirely different imageboard.

>>950 it needs to be on a single board to be effective

>>962 If people wanted to meet up at a hackerspace or work on a project together, /μ/ would be appropriate, but considering that /q/ is kind of the community meta board perhaps that could be a place to organize meetups as well. We would change the topic from "questions and comments" to something more comprehensive.

>>964 you're misunderstanding the idea of the /ago/ra board entirely the agora board needs to be a hub for posting by locale, one or two threads spread across different boards is not enough, if I'm a traveling keyboard cowboy and want to offer my services or goods in exchange for housing, or if someone needs tutoring etc in a city, there is a large enough variety for meatspace demand that warrants a whole board people have expressed a desire for such a thing and it would increase and maintain the userbase of the site by encouraging the use of lainchan as an anonymous social network

>>965 Thank you for clarifying. I think /a/gora would work well next to /r/ and /q/. I have appended it to the original post.

>>966 many thanks, however I'm not seeing it updated

>>966 >>966 cool now it is, please let administration know that since I proposed the idea, I'd be up for being mod on that board if the idea goes through kim@lepufology.com

>>961 The visible split between /civ/ and everything else was a stoke of luck, imo. Most other imageboards tend to let /p0l/ seep into the surrounding boards. Still not an excuse to have it, though. spam filter why?

>>971 My point is that the behavior accepted in /civ/ isn't accepted anywhere else, and my memory may be biased but it didn't happen before /civ/ existed. The "place to soykaf talk politics" is what bought this kind of people here. At least that's the impression i have.

You have to have /zzz/ its an important nod to the Lain story theme

>>1001 Could make it /drgzzz/

>>844 I think this is pretty damn close to what the board setup should be. Idk about the difference between μ and tech/diy is though. I mean why not have μ/diy then tech as tech? I didn't browse either of the boards much though so i may be getting the wrong idea. Really do like the idea of combining boards. That and i am glad we still have a place to love lain.

>>844 >>939 Drop /soc/ you're just creating /civ/ with another name. Yes this would probably satisfy the lefties on the board but ultimately I think it'd still be full of low quality posts and 'muh socialism' I know I've been pressing this hard, but this is a site that could use an /x/ or /zone/ tier board. Something like that could emphasize our similarities instead of our differences paranoia is a bigger part of 'cyberpunk' culture than politics. >>948 This as well, I think the /agora/ suggestion is excellent! this is a good time to try something new. Don't fuarrrk it up.

>>1026 Even if it were slow i would love a board such as this. We could talk about the government reading our (my) thoughts.

Recently heard about what happened to this site, and quite surprised why I haven't heard about this place recently. See the potential and would to see this place grow again. Please avoid becoming like that site, I heard a lot of people complaining about how this site how too many boards. A board doesn't need to appease everyone, there's lots of anonymous boards that have what you need.

>>844 I actually really like the draft, only two points of critique I have are: - Include a board for infosec and cyb topics. - Maybe no dedicated politics board.

>>1023 >I think this is pretty damn close to what the board setup should be. Idk about the difference between μ and tech/diy is though. I mean why not have μ/diy then tech as tech? I didn't browse either of the boards much though so i may be getting the wrong idea. I would think /μ/ is more about personal and group projects while diy is about sharing how to do something. I understand that the line seems blurry, but I've seen other places where these are separated and it is quite clear where a post belongs. Threads never seem to need moving. If it proves to be difficult for people here, we could always move diy out of /tech/ and into /μ/. >>1026 >Drop /soc/ you're just creating /civ/ with another name. Yes this would probably satisfy the lefties on the board but ultimately I think it'd still be full of low quality posts and 'muh socialism' It has nothing to do with socialism. I didn't even consider that both words start with the same three letters. There are lots of alternate words that begin with the board abbreviations. This is no exception. Nevertheless, there seems to be a lot of warranted concern about my proposal for a society board and we've been doing just fine without /civ/ lately so perhaps this idea should be put on hold for the start of the new boards. >I know I've been pressing this hard, but this is a site that could use an /x/ or /zone/ tier board. Something like that could emphasize our similarities instead of our differences paranoia is a bigger part of 'cyberpunk' culture than politics. I think /x/ could be really interesting, but I think it ought to start as a hidden board and see what the quality of the content is like.

>>844 >1. 95% of the /diy/ threads are tech related and many /tech/ threads have a diy ethos. The problem is that discussion on /tech/ (and /sec/) was much faster than discussion on /diy/. Turning /tech/ into a dumping ground for anything technology related by merging /sec/ and /diy/ into it will completely kill off most all of the /diy/ related discussion. >if we delete it and replace it with a /soc/ with the title "cyberpunk culture, philosophy, and ethos" it would attract much higher quality threads such as these found on cyberpunk forums 'awareness' subforum: >a. selfies, avatars, and online pictorial representations of oneself >b. Are we sliding into a dystopia. >c. Do you feel that? >d. Digital Disruption Has Already Happened Those are some unrealistically high hopes that you have. In actuality we're just going to end up with more of the same with lame attempts to try to tie it in with the vague idea of "cyberpunk". Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, and this will be the third attempt at making a politics related board on this site. >6. where is /layer/? now hidden. such an esoteric board need not be promoted in the primary navigation when the purpose of the restructure is to consolidate boards. Why would you hide a board that was made for the purpose of promoting stegonography and DDT? That's completely opposite the purpose of the board. Also, what's with this agora board that it feels like just one person is doing most of the pushing for? Most of the posts about it in different threads seem to be straight copy/pasted from the other threads it's being discussed in. Beyond that, it seems to me like the board could introduce problems with doxing.

>>1046 >The problem is that discussion on /tech/ (and /sec/) was much faster than discussion on /diy/. Turning /tech/ into a dumping ground for anything technology related by merging /sec/ and /diy/ into it will completely kill off most all of the /diy/ related discussion. We could always move diy to /μ/. It seems like it would do well there. >>1046 >Those are some unrealistically high hopes that you have. In actuality we're just going to end up with more of the same with lame attempts to try to tie it in with the vague idea of "cyberpunk". Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, and this will be the third attempt at making a politics related board on this site. Perhaps you're right. What do you think of a hidden /soc/ to isolate those kind of posts? ...or do you think tolerating them at all would get out of hand? >>1046 >Why would you hide a board that was made for the purpose of promoting stegonography and DDT? That's completely opposite the purpose of the board. Isn't secrecy the entire fuarrrking point of steganography? >>1046 >Also, what's with this agora board that it feels like just one person is doing most of the pushing for? Most of the posts about it in different threads seem to be straight copy/pasted from the other threads it's being discussed in. Beyond that, it seems to me like the board could introduce problems with doxing. I think you're right. We should introduce it as a hidden board as to not explicitly encourage doxxing. If some name users want to risk it, they can have at it. It already happens in some other boards.

>>1047 >Isn't secrecy the entire fuarrrking point of steganography? Yes, but the point of /layer/ was as a board where people can experiment with it. I'm confused as to why people think a board for people who are interested in stegonography to more easily experiment with it at a larger scale should be hidden. Do you think that platforms for people to experiment with encryption should be hidden as well? >What do you think of a hidden /soc/ to isolate those kind of posts? ...or do you think tolerating them at all would get out of hand? Hiding boards doesn't make much of a difference on boards that will get higher post rates, all hiding it will do is prolong the inevitable. If the board gets any amount of traffic then it will still be very visible in /mega/, just as /civ/ was last time. Even with just two posters getting into an argument and going back and forth (as is to be expected of politics related discussion), they will be able to keep whatever thread they're in at the top of /mega/ and clearly visible for an extended period of time.

I updated the original post to reflect all of the revisions to my proposal.

>>1047 >>1046 >Also, what's with this agora board that it feels like just one person is doing most of the pushing for? many posters have expressed a desire for a market and community board, lainchan is starting to get boring as a c1rclejerk over making soykaf and hoarding data alone, we need to start building actual cyb community networks and economies in meatspace >Beyond that, it seems to me like the board could introduce problems with doxing that's never a problem on meetup sites or craigslist, there's no reason it would be a problem on the agora board, people are just as likely to get doxx'd posting links to repositories or any other contact information >We should introduce it as a hidden board as to not explicitly encourage doxxing making the board hidden would be a mistake, having an OPEN community on this chan for people around the world to offer trade, contact, and services would be a boon and freshen up a community that is rapidly becoming stale

>>1020 I like this I'm seconding it.

>>1054 >many posters have expressed a desire for a market and community board I keep seeing this claim, but what I haven't seen is much detailed discussion about it and a lot of copy/pasted posts about it over the past few days. >that's never a problem on meetup sites or craigslist And how many of those sites experience raids by people due to perceived opposing political beliefs?

>>1056 >I keep seeing this claim, but what I haven't seen is much detailed discussion about it and a lot of copy/pasted posts about it over the past few day I've been reiterating it where necessary but there were something like 9-10 other posters who want it. >And how many of those sites experience raids by people due to perceived opposing political beliefs? None considering their volume? Where you getting this information and why are you opposed to an open market and community board on a site themed around an anime about digital networks entering into meatspace and vice versa? I understand that many posters here enjoy the notion of sitting in their bedroom hacking away at their linux boxen or soldering stuff alone and occasionally going to Walmart for food or whatever, but we are at a time in society where people need to be communicating and getting stuff done together irl outside of mainstream infrastructure.

>>1057 >I've been reiterating it where necessary but there were something like 9-10 other posters who want it. I did suggest in my original post that boards shouldn't be selected based solely on the count of those that are interested. The a/gora board may prove to be a good example of one worth our while.

>>1058 it won't help lainchan much if it's a hidden board if it's a listed board it has potential to be the most used board on here

>>844 >>1058 You should probably be concerned with how that poster responded to questions about the potential problem of doxing with their board by accusing posters on this site of being shut-ins and appeals to SEL. They sound like a troll.

I seriously don't understand the hype around this ancap board, it sounds like the dumbest idea ever. Who the heck would trust an anonymous imageboard to buy and sell things? It's asking to be scammed.

>>1060 >accusing posters on this site of being shut-ins and appeals to SEL. They sound like a troll. I have nothing but hope and support for the health and proliferation of the userbase of this site. However, my statements are not accusatory or trolling when some of the users of this site also visit a board on another site called /hikki/ and many of the users of this site are proud self-proclaimed techno-NEETs who spend their day learning intermediate python chops and watching anime. It's not meant to be an insult, especially if its the userbase itself that proliferates these memes, but its starting to get REALLY BORING for business and social minded people who have already mastered their fair share of software and hardware systems and want to make waves in the real word, establish social contacts, or build their own infrastructure instead of buying tendies or whatever. >>1061 It would be meetup hub for those kinds a trades, people post by locale and get together. It's no more asking to be scammed than buying or selling things on the darkweb or going to meetups. I buy stuff off craigslist, which is also anonymous, all the time, I'd just like to do it with lainons now instead of random rednecks.

>>1062 >business minded people As far as I'm concerned, they can fuarrrk off.

>>1063 have fun with Google, Amazon, Microsoft, and Apple eating everything because you're too antisocial to collaborate with other humans to establish competition have fun with ISPs, banks, and commodity suppliers selling your data without paying you and throttling your internet rates because the idea of getting together with other lainons to build your own network infrastructures and economies violated your social anxiety the cyb response to the problems of encroaching corporate and federal power is not sitting alone in your room and doing what you've been doing, we need to organize, and an open community board is a good start

>>1062 >However, my statements are not accusatory or trolling when some of the users of this site also visit a board on another site called /hikki/ and many of the users of this site are proud self-proclaimed techno-NEETs ...and where on this site did you find these people? >its starting to get REALLY BORING for business and social minded people who have already mastered their fair share of software and hardware systems and want to make waves in the real word, establish social contacts, or build their own infrastructure Then maybe you should consider another website for that purpose. You aren't going to make waves in the real world from a small imageboard like this and people that I only know from an anonymous imageboard are the last people I'd want to enter into a contract with (and I hope most other sane human beings would think the same). As for building your own infrastructure, you'd be much better off finding a site where that's more of the focus of the site (ie, an amateur radio board if you want to get a large scale wireless mesh network up and running) than trying to do that with a few posters here.

>>1066 lainons have expressed interest and a demand for the agora board, if you don't like the board, don't visit it. I'm trying to organize something wonderful here and it shouldn't really concern you if there's another letter added to the top of the site bar and an influx of users that actually like getting stuff done. >(ie, an amateur radio board if you want to get a large scale wireless mesh network up and running) than trying to do that with a few posters here. except that posters here have expressed a wish to do exactly that

>>1068 >if you don't like the board, don't visit it. You're posting in a thread about merging and removing boards to condense the site. Why shouldn't we be weighing the potential negatives of a new board suggestion and whether the board will actually prove to be usable for its intended purpose? >except that posters here have expressed a wish to do exactly that Then you should get together and find an amateur radio board. Trying to set up infrastructure like that would require much more people than you could easily get involved from this site, and trying to organize just with users on this site would be setting yourself up to fail if you're wanting to try a project of that scale. Beyond that, preliminary discussion could be done on the new /μ/ board that's replacing /diy/ instead of requiring another board for that purpose.

>>1069 >Why shouldn't we be weighing the potential negatives of a new board suggestion and whether the board will actually prove to be usable for its intended purpose? We have, and in the other thread about new boards there were far more people supporting the agora board than against it. >Then you should get together and find an amateur radio board. Trying to set up infrastructure like that would require much more people than you could easily get involved from this site, and trying to organize just with users on this site would be setting yourself up to fail if you're wanting to try a project of that scale. Yes. and the Agora board is about building networks for projects like this AND OTHERS.

>>1072 >We have, and in the other thread about new boards there were far more people supporting the agora board than against it. That you think people saying something might be cool without actually discussing it in depth, weighing the positives and negatives, or having a plan at all is enough of a reason to do it really doesn't give me hope for any business or project ideas that may come from your suggested board. There has been no real discussion about your agora board outside of a few posters criticizing the idea, and no people saying it might be cool or that it has received support is not discussion. The new /x/ board that is going to be made on the other hand has been discussed on and off for months and posters have actually posted example of things that could be discussed were posted each time. >AND OTHERS. Such as?

>>1075 read this >>355 there are non reply supportiing posts as well

>>1076 >political activism is a listed use I seem to have missed that the first time I read the post. Thanks for giving yet another example of why your suggestion is a bad idea. If there's one thing this site definitely doesn't need a board for, it's organizing political activism. >there are non reply supportiing posts as well I was in that thread when it happened. All the support is limited to people saying that's cool with no other input or discussion.

>>1079 you're misinterpreting the goals of the agora board out of some strange distaste for the idea of organization in meatspace

>>1080 >you're misinterpreting I'm going off your exact words. Which is the only thing I have to go off of since no one else has talked about what they'd use the board for.

>>1081 the first word in that clause was "local", people can do whatever they want once they meet up at their locale, the activism clause does not imply political discussion on this site, you're being unnecessarily abrasive towards what could be a great addition to this site

>>1081 anons mentioned couchsurfing and travel, and the ones that mentioned that they'd use it in general one would generally assume they'd be using one of the many uses stated in the original post

As far as the /agora/ board, i can't see it being too useful for real trading when our userbase is so sparse. Online trading, sure. Service trading, sure. But this board could be a good place to discuss any (legal) money making techniques. How to take your skills and share them for profit. Kind of goes against what the board is i guess but that would make sure it at least survives.

>>1086 >legal Why on earth? Of course talking about realistic illegal actions that are happening would be not only stupid but a problem for the moderation. But talking about illegal methods isn't a crime and never was. The ability to talk about illegal methods would be essential for a place like this. It's not much different from talking about guns or serial killers, as long as you don't specifically plot killing someone, there's nothing to worry about and there shouldn't be.

Would the Agora thread have some king of escrow service? I have some online stuffs to sell but I would like to get paid

>>1090 >I have some online stuffs to sell but I would like to get paid Huh, what an odd fellow.

>>1090 there are many escrow services online but ideally after a while the agora board would establish credit networks/reputations for credible buyers, sellers, teachers, experts etc after enough transactions

>>1086 >sparse userbase I'm off the same mind. I'm for the /agora/ board, but I do think that, true to cyberpunk form, there would be few meatspace uses for the board. perhaps in some of the major cities, as well as to connect traveling or nearby lainons. that said, I don't think it's all that likely, outside of the occasional meetup, for activity on that board to result in n lainons meeting face to face. that said, i think it is a wonderful idea that is deserving of a test run. should it go to pot, we can reassess. but it seems like a way for lainons to put themselves, their services, and their monetizable creations out there to a community of likeminded folk, which is something that could easily feed into the two greeks. >>1051 i think this is a solid formation. i do think that /layer/ should remain, and like an earlier poster, i don't understand why it's being hidden. it seems unnecessary, especially in light of it being a board about hiding info in plain sight. anyone care to make a case for it remaining hidden? further, assuming that structuring is decided upon, what about hidden boards in general? does lain disappear? what happened to /soc/? I know it's clearly controversial and that the board is divided on it (i'm not yet sure how I feel about it myself), i just don't see why your updated post nixed it without placing it in consideration.

Why are y'all so scared to buy and sell anonymously? Other online forums do it. the agora board seems like a good place to trade skills for services or information, rather than to be scammed out of actual money. I also like the couch surfing idea

>>1097 >what happened to /soc/? I know it's clearly controversial and that the board is divided on it (i'm not yet sure how I feel about it myself), i just don't see why your updated post nixed it without placing it in consideration. I would still like to see a /soc/iety board in the future, but given the extraordinarily aggressive moderation it would require—especially in the beginning—it might be wise to delay it and focus our efforts on starting the other boards. The board has proven controversial enough that it probably deserves its own thread.

>>844 Seems solid. Can anyone explain what /soc/ is as opposed to /cult/? It it more about our current society than culture and literature? If that is the case i am all for a /soc/ because /cult/ will be a little too large then.

>>1115 >Seems solid. Can anyone explain what /soc/ is as opposed to /cult/? It it more about our current society than culture and literature? If that is the case i am all for a /soc/ because /cult/ will be a little too large then. /soc/iety was originally going to be "cyberpunk culture, philosophy, and ethos" while /cult/ure would be "cyberpunk anime, art, film, games, literature, and music." Taken from the original post.

How would /a/gora work if it's hidden. It needs a lot of participation to work and it being hidden makes it so it will only be checked on once in a blue moon in an already slow site. Dont make this mistake please. Why can't /feels/ threads go into /r/ do we really need a whole board for sad stuff? /u/ board sounds awesome. /soc/ should have a different name sounds like a social board or socialist board.

>>1106 thanks for the reply. i think both /soc/ and /agora/ are deserving of their own threads, since they seem to be the real hotbeds of contention at the moment. >>1127 i agree that agora shouldn't be a hidden board. as for /feels/, i think it's important to note that it's a board that has had historical importance to many users of this site, as well as a place where people can be highly vulnerable, within a caring & understanding community. this is really huge, especially when someone truly needs it. it may not be an active board for everyone, but it seems very important to its users. even though i didn't use the board, it always made me happy to see the dialogue and compassion coming from that board. re: /soc/, i do agree with many user's concern over the branding of the board, though not necessarily their arguments. i'm wondering if it might be a good idea to take lead from debord and call the board /spec/ instead, ie, society of the spectacle? ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectacle_(critical_theory) )this, of course, may give some pause - especially those that didn't want no stinking commie board - but i'd argue that it's both an appropriate proto-cyberpunk concept, as well as something that (with perhaps some sprinkling of imagination & stretch) still provides an appropriate ground for the discussion intended in /soc/.

Oy gayboy, where's /feels/? While other boards can be created on necessity, people won't post about their private life on /r/ only to be trashed on by 4chan onlookers.

>>1130 >hotbeds of contention at the moment 2-3 detractors and 12-13 supporters across the threads concerning the idea is a "hotbed of contention"?

>>1141 I'd say you're underestimating the amount of detractors. Opposition, as well as neutral uncertainty, has also been expressed in the thread where the idea was originally opposed, as well as IRC.

>>844 would love for /sci/ to have a different name that encompasses science and maths.. /tech/ seems like such an awkward delineation. It's a science and it seems like most of the threads there could be posted on random and diy seeing how this is lainchan. the rest I agree with, but I don't see the need for hidden boards as they mostly go unused.

>>1163 didn't see the /soc/ note. If such a board is instated I hope it is current events / history based and not some anonymous political circle jerk.

>>1163 >would love for /sci/ to have a different name that encompasses science and maths.. The science board does include mathematics and technology is most certainly a distinct topic. That being said I'm not going to allow this thread to devolve into an endless debate over semantics.

>>844 Personally never liked the name of the /feels/ board. Something about more than four characters for a board is really creepy. Other than that, I think this is great. Hope it gets implemented soon!

Does anyone use mega and random? I find them to be pretty useless

>>1198 I think most people browse primarily through /mega/, since the community is pretty spread through the boards.

>>1198 On a slow imageboard like this /mega/ is pretty nice.

>>1198 I use mega all the time.

im 100% behind these changes.

>>844 I think some people need to read over this post again.