How Time Shapes Music / When Johnny Comes Marching Home

Hello lain :) I have some thoughts and questions about how music is shaped by time. There is a famous American Civil War song, "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" - the version I grew up with is performed by Mitch Miller, recorded after WWII (the song become popular again during the war): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZOlZs0u1_Y The line > And we'll all drink stone wine, when Johnny Comes marching home is not in the original: https://www.loc.gov/item/99390610/ and I've always wondered what "stone wine" is. I did some searching, and got a variety of conflicting answers. People on various forums (quora, reddit, etc.) believe it's either 1. A particular brand of ginger wine (pic rel), which is apparently famous 2. "Wine" made from fruit with pits (i.e. a stone), like cherries or apricots. 3. Basement wine, home brew stuff. 4. A censoring of the original line, which supposedly is > and we'll all drink stone blind, when ... The first answer seems odd to me, as the line should be "stone's wine" then, the actual name of the brand. I cannot find any references to "stone wine" meaning either the second or third answer either. The fourth answer is odd, given that neither the "stone wine" or "stone blind" line appear in the original. The "stone blind" line appears in a contemporary song, "Johnny, Fill up the Bowl", a rather bleak drinking song whose lyrics were often changed by both union and confederate soldiers. The chorus goes: > And we'll all drink stone blind // Johnny, fill up the bowl Interestingly. the Library of Congress calls "Fill up the Bowl" a parody of "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" https://www.loc.gov/collections/patriotic-melodies/articles-and-essays/when-johnny-comes-marching-home-again/ whereas wikipedia's source, J. Lighter (his book "The Best Antiwar Song Ever Written" is attached) argues that the drinking song came first. Regardless, it's clear to me that the "stone wine" line is inspired by this other song. Why change the line then? I don't think it was an anti-alcohol thing, post-war America had like 5 martinis for lunch. I think it's likely the tone - "Fill up the Bowl" is pretty dreary, while "Johnny Comes Marching Home" is optimistic. A soft change to separate it from its sadder cousin. None of this answers what they meant by "stone wine," but I find it interesting how the meaning of some changes can be lost to time. Any lainons with ideas/answers please chip in, or feel free to post other songs that have been weirdly shaped by time :)

>>14091 i think the point is that "stone wine" doesn't exist. it sounds mythological, like an impossible challenge or something a folk hero would do. i think the line is cynical about the end of the war, and was censored because the line could be seen as overly critical towards the government.

>>14093 > I think the point is that "stone wine" doesn't exist I hadn't considered this, thanks lain. Stone wine does sound like a hero's reward :) I'm not sure about the rest of your interpretation however. Miller was a very commercially focused artist. I'm not sure he'd try for a government critical/subversive song.

I think you're underestimating the degree to which songs get new lyrics and heavy modifications just as a matter of course. All sorts of CW era songs have many variations, some parodies. Battlecry of freedom had a full rebel and federal version as well as various parodies and quite a few verses that weren't "standard". Someone published a full parodic dixie with union friendly lyrics. Almost every popular song from the time was kinda like this as far as I can tell. As to the stone wine stone blind IDK all these theories are a bit weird to me. For what its worth I have heard that peach brandy was a pretty popular drink before the war and various damages and such made it much less available afterward, peaches having stones. Brewing and distilling have a lot of special terms not always consistently and universally used, its possible stone wine was such a term. But that's far from confident.

>>14095 I'm not surprised this song has been heavily altered - it's been trotted out for a couple major wars now. The thing that bugs me is there's one change that I can't find any explanation for. As you said, I don't think any of the theories really make sense. I didn't know peach brandy was popular then - it does seem like a good celebratory drink :)