The Great Conversation / Great Books Book Club

Hey Alice, Lets have or Join a "Great Books" / "Western Classics" book club online. Why? What is this ? >https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/great-conversation-the-great-books/ What are the Great Books? >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Books_of_the_Western_World >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_books Possible Reading Schedules >The canonical Reading schedule: www.greatconversation.com/10-year-reading-plan >A reading Schedule of Another Group: http://www.greatconversation.com/what-we-are-reading Very little prior art exists: >https://onlinegreatbooks.com An Awesome looking, active group but is commercial, and ridiculously expensive. Watch the trailer to get intrested in the Idea of a book club. But, who is really going to pay $59/mo. to be in a book club? Its unjustifiable. >http://www.greatconversation.com This group is far more promising, but appears, somewhat defunct and uses questionable infrastructure: They have a yahoo mailing list, and its post activity has been as high as ~150 messages/mo, it appears they are currently less active at ~5 messages per month now. This group has a published reading schedule, and perhaps alice could help reinvigorate it by joining. Adopting the schedule of the non-commercial group means we could synchronize with them and gain a larger membership "free" - The books are independent, and nothing forbids this. As to discussion medium, Lainchan threads per book would be possible, or / additionally, a matrix channel, or IRC. I am even open to e-mail etc. Anyone interested in reading?

Nice idea, but referring to artofmanliness in order to pitch it discredits the whole enterprise in my eyes. Also: Why strictly stick with 'The Great Tradition', why limit yoursleves in such a way? I think a reading group that's not limited to such a tight set of possible books might be more interesting. One could even organize several smaller reading groups on this board, each of them would revolve around a book its members are really interested in reading at that moment - or something like that.

>>3585 Well the enterprise of reading these books is far older than the art of manliness. This particular list is almost 75 years old. I am open to a different list, but i'd rather not compose a list - i lack the education to do so, and will gladly except the collection assembled by experts. This paticular set also gives integration with existing groups and this undertaking might outlive lainchan I am also open to smaller, independant reading groups.

Why stick with this list so rigorously? These aren't scripture of a religion, they're just books. Just pick the ones you're interested in and read those, go to secondary sources for the others. What's the purpose of making it a big deal to do this entire list, except for LARPing as a university student 300 years ago? It also seems pointless in some places, needlessly focusing on things that can be understood via secondary sources and missing important things that don't fit into whatever concept of a "Great Book"(tm) formed this list. I really don't see the value in reading Archimedes or Newton if you already know the contents contained from regular STEM education and they're on this list instead of: >anything from after the 1930s >anything from east asia >anything from the islamic world

>>3594 >Why stick with this list so rigorously? These aren't scripture of a religion, they're just books. Agreed, within reason. I don't think this list constitutes the canonical list of greatest books that must be read specifically. I do think that "A" list is necessary to have a group project that extends so long on such a loosely knit community. This list appears to be as good as any to me. >go to secondary sources for the others. This is a particularly valid complaint for the science books. Learning science from the original sources is in general a bad idea, textbooks are a premier source. This complaint is addressed in the first volume, which argues that the method of discovery and problem solving is interesting, not the scientific result. Learning Calculus from The principia would be retarded, but I took plenty of calculus in college. >What's the purpose of making it a big deal to do this entire list, except for LARPing as a university student 300 years ago? Well, I don't know what I don't know. I am exploring a space of books, set out by my betters for my education. This list has some prestige, and isn't obviously wrong. I am open to a different list. I don't know if I can honestly say I expect to make it through the full list, but I feel that having a list is useful. People can plan ahead, if they read slower, and move in and out of book club at their will. Because the books are independent (but inter-referential), the book club will still have value as new members read new books with old members some of which have atrophied. The books are guaranteed to be novel because the list is predetermined. >Anything from X I am actually interested in centering this book club around western classics, although I enjoy plenty of Eastern Literature, The Gita being one of my favorites. Perhaps skipping the science is a good idea, I am open to discussion. The list isn't fixed in my mind, and I don't determine the group. I am open to a different list, if you are actually interested in joining. All of your criticism of the list has been made before, exists on the Wikipedia page for the list, and a small attempt to rectify it was made on the second release of the set.

Very interested! Do you have a schedule in mind? A book a month feels like something that anyone could do, but it would also take more than ten years to complete... It seems Adler ordered his list chronologically, but these online dudes seem to read in random order, with the ten year plan allocating entries from each era to each year, and the "what we are reading" dudes have their own random order. I would prefer introductions to ancient literature, then the actual ancient literature, and then chronologically towards our days.

I would say this list is rubbish, but it does include Transfinite Numbers, which IMO is one of the crowning achievements of western analytic philosophy, so it must have some merit.

>>3601 The reading group from the original post is still active, and coordinating with them might be nice. >I would prefer introductions to ancient literature, then the actual ancient literature That might be sensible, but Set of of Books was explicitly put together without any scholarly introduction. It was the belief of the editors that the works should speak for themselves. I am personally more inclined to read the book out of context and misunderstand it, before reading scholarly materials or introductions so that I can get my own first impressions. >chronologically towards our days. The reading list as ordered by this project isn't chronological, its ordered by "ease" of reading , so that you can "grow" into the more complicated books. I agree the chronological seems superior, but I am afraid that perhaps I will not immediately understand the more complex books without a more gentle introduction. In how to read a book, Adler does advocate reading in chronological order. >A book a month feels like something that anyone could do, but it would also take more than ten years to complete. Agreed. But a book a month sounds like a nice minimum commitment for a large group to maintain. We could "Tier" reading levels with inclusive tiers. So tier 2 could be 2 books per month which includes the same as tier 1. Etc.

>one book per month you do know that some of these books take over a year to read right? You can't finish War and Peace in a month.

>>3605 You certainly could finish it in a month, assuming you are single and don't have kids, and aren't working 60 hours a week. It shouldn't take you a whole year anyway.

>>3606 I mean, if you literally spend as much time as possible reading, sure. That's a pretty huge commitment though.

>>3585 >referring to artofmanliness in order to pitch it discredits the whole enterprise in my eyes. Don't shoot the messenger. >>3594 >Why stick with this list so rigorously? Far greater minds than yours have considered these books fundamental to an understanding of the development of the Western intellectual tradition. >I really don't see the value in reading Archimedes or Newton if you already know the contents contained from regular STEM education I strongly suspect that's because you've not read Archimedes or Newton. I have, and I've taken calculus and physics at university, and I do see the value in reading primary sources. Besides, if you already know everything that's in them, they should be an easy read for a big-brained "STEM" fella like you. I see a lot of "yeah, but..." in this thread. What I don't see a lot (or any) of is an alternative, well-reasoned list.

>>3584 Any Opinions on a medium? Lainchan is comfortable, and present: We could have a thread per book, or instead a single on going thread for the club. Alternatively, a matrix room or IRC would be *cosy*, but is probably not as suited to long for discussion as an image board. Its also a more synchronous communication, and that probably doesn't work well for a loosely knit community with various schedules. An e-mail list seems also relatively well suited , by antiquated. I have read the first few from the list, but I am happy to reread. They first few are short works, taking less than a day to read. Aristophanes is actually kind of funny - he seems to be the anon of the greeks: His plays are full of masturbation, sex jokes,, roasting of the gods, and even a kind of culture war where he makes a comedy of those who abandon tradition. If your not reading, your missing out.

>>3604 If Adler thinks the works speak for themselves and that they should be read in a chronological order, then that's the way it is. (Silly me, I forgot that most editions of ancient works provide an introduction by the translator anyway!) I think the question of which version of the list to use (first or second) can be suspended for when we get the reading group going, since the first addition is from the Middle Ages.

>>3605 >>3607 People always laughably overestimate the length of time it takes to read books. The AUDIO book for War and Peace is only 60 hours that's shorter than Game of Thrones. And actually reading it should drop that time down to 30-40 hours. >>3606 >a year Did it take you a year to read LotR?

>Why so rigid etc.? Have you ever tried to have a conversation with someone who speaks a different language? It's difficult, and incomplete. There's a reason the study of literature is often just called "English". That is because English language literature is specifically inclined towards speakers of the language. I appreciate translations as much as I can. However, the social, psychological, and philosophical importance of these works is greatly intertwined with the language in which the works were originally written.

>>3625 if these are so important to English why are so many of them originally in languages that predate or have different roots from English? Keep in mind that English is not a romance language.

Let's start with the oldest Western works, the Iliad and the Odyssey. Both are somewhat long, so I'd say reading them while doing other important things warrants a book per month pace here. Ideally, we'd read the Iliad during October, and the Odyssey in November. So, what are you expecting from the Iliad? I know the basic outline of the Trojan war: Helen was stolen by Troy, the heroes wage a war to get her back (honestly, this doesn't sound like a good reason to start a war), Achilles kicks ass until he takes an arrow to the heel, and then they do the Trojan Horse trick. What I'm expecting to find out is how the Greeks viewed the war efforts. Sure, they liked bravery, but how do they appreciate skill and intellect if everything is ultimately up to the gods? Was their idea of heroism any different? Also, how gay is it going to be? Wikipedia says that some people (who?) think that Achilleus and his best friend are lovers, but some think they're just bros. My guess is that friendship between men was stronger back then because they didn't have to say "no homo" or avoid touching torsos, and what seems (or seemed) gay to some people was normal male bonding in the ancient times.

>>3623 >Did it take you a year to read LotR? You clearly did not read my post.

Hey is there any interest in this still? I'm going through the Illiad atm. Will make a book specific thread if interested. I also think we should add Heraclitus and Cicero to the list.

>>4034 I am very interested. However, I have a book list I am currently working on that are very crucial that I read.

>>4034 Can we just make a discord? I know you all seem to be above it, but is it really that bad?

>>4038 >can we make a discord >there is already a dedicated IRC server and mumble server for this website

gilgamesh, iliad, odyssey.

>>4050 The epic of gilgamesh sure is an interesting story i heard, thanks for sharing. I would love to read the some of the vedas one day too.

>>4052 four vedas

greek tragedies

greek comedies aristotle

romans... cicero, virgil, horace.

then the disease of xtianity wiped out western civilization for about a thousand years. even the barbarians eventually got infected with it.

I'm very excited to have found this thread. Hopefully something can come of it. I thought I was the only one aware of this fantastic collection.. If anyone has a pdf of the Syntopicon that would be a dream come true. In the meantime, here is How to Read a Book

A great books set is one of the best things I man can have

>>4511 Hey, just wanted to let you know that the version you posted is the first version, a later version was posted that revised it in the 70's I believe.

>>4532 Nice catch, here is the second edition in pdf and djvu formats from libgen

>>4541 Also, I don't know why I didn't check libgen to begin with, but surprisingly the Syntopicon was actually on there. It lists the ~100 odd "Great Ideas" that they decided on as common threads through all of the Great Books. Every idea has its own chapter, if you will, and contains a short essay that summarizes the history of thought surrounding that idea. After the essay there's essentially a giant list of all the references to that idea from all of the great books, right down to the chapter/section/page and even which quadrant (upper,lower,left,right) of the page in which the reference occurs (of course it'll only be completely accurate if you have a Great Books copy). Fantastic tool for research as well as getting a bird's-eye view of the historical conversation surrounding any of these ideas. pretty cool stuff. Good for casual reading as well as serious focused research it comes in two volumes. The first is too large for me to post here but here's the second. here's a link for the first volume http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=B5E2D34278B6660CDCCC5EE0F40FBFC1