Would anyone be interested in going through Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit together?

The way that we would do it is choose a date every week and then get into a voice chat together and have one member read through a portion of PoS followed by something like Kalkavage's Logic of Desire (or Hegel's ladder) and then talk about it together. We'd have a reading session every week until we finish the book. Everything would be contained within the session.

Is there no interest or is this board just slow?

board just slow, also nice idea but i dont have enough brain power to read philosophy

>>11140 Yeah, pretty slow. Also, nowadays a significant proportion of people seem to glance over the board for simple, easily digestible outrage content. Usually threads of political nature accrue a lot of eyeballs and responses, as long as it's nothing too technical. Anyway, in principle, I'd be interested in such a reading project. I've even got a copy of it (a really bad translation, am afraid) which I've been meaning to get through someday. Unfortunately, reading Hegel requires a lot of effort - I know people who've dedicated a literal year into just getting through or understanding the PoS - which I don't think I can afford currently. Of course, that also depends on with what kind of reading schedule and analysis session program we'd be going into it?

>>11140 >>11141 Lain as a whole is pretty slow. In theory I'd be interested, except I still need to finish Kant first, and I'm not a fan of voice chat.

I'd love too, and I even tried myself a few years back, but Hegel is way too heavy for what I'm accustomed too. You could perhaps try warosu because, as you mentioned, /lit/ is most likely the [s]non-hidden[/s] board with the lowest PPD

I'd do it! we could use the mumble server at lainchan.org, port 64738

I'm also up to reading this. It'd be a good excuse to pick up a little German, are there any bilingual editions available? If you plan to discuss this I suggest either this very thread or at the very least an IRC channel instead though. Just the two most available options to me.

>>11145 Hegel does require quite a lot of effort, ideally we'd take a middle path where we do have enough progress each week but without falling into a shallow read, though how it'll actually end up going I do not know. When it comes to the schedule/organization, my experience has been that these sort-of projects usually fail due to a lack of engagement, I've been in a couple of reading groups throughout the years and most people just don't end up reading in their free time. So I wanted to, if possible, contain everything within the sessions. Exact logistics are still to be determined, but we'd probably choose a date each week and the first few weeks I imagine we'd have bloated membership (because I want to get a lot more people before starting, since I believe most will drop out) which will make a bit of a mess in regards to scheduling, but as the core group forms we'd pick a date suitable to the groups usual schedule though with enough leeway to accomodate circumstances (perhaps through a vote)

>>11146 I get that, I'm not super comfortable with voice chat either personally. But like I said I want to contain everything within the session. but if anyone makes a good case for a different format I'm open to conversation. In regards to Kant (or Fichte) I'm not the most well read either, my starting point is a sort-of left-hegelian hodgepot (which isn't ideal to say the least) I had the hopes that secondary material and a large enough group could somewhat remedy not having gone through the entire wester canon beforehand. I've asked around and the opinions I've got in that regard were mixed, so who knows.

>>11147 I did make a few posts on /lit/ 24285957 >>11149 I haven't used mumble before, I get the concerns with discord so I made a matrix server as well but I'm cool with mumble too >>11150 I thought of doing the Inwood translation, we can have a German edition on the side if desired. And I do speak German if necessary (though probably not enough to go through Hegel)

I'm interested but I've read only 100 pages of the first critique and Kant is necessary to master before hegel or so I've heard

anyone still interested in this

Where are we communicating? I want to read this as well but this is pretty dense.

>>11668 I doubt this reading group project is ever gonna take flight. As the previous comments show, it's too much of a commitment. Plus, all the logistics of running an international study group are just a hassle, so...

>>11657 Hey. I would be, though I am probably very late.

>>11670 Me too; although I don't care much about Hegel it sounds fun regardless

I'm up for this, I've been for a few years wanting to understand Hegel, have gotten back to reading recently. Started with Dostoyevsky and Zizek. Let me know when and where and I'll show up

>>11669 >>11670 >>11671 >>11673 I'm the guy who revived the thread, my discord is cutiecelhusbando if other means of communication are preferred by the lainons let me know, I know IRC and FOSS apps are preferred by most but I use discord more regularly

you know you could do mumble instead of soykafcord.

>>11674 I actually don't use discord at all, could we do mumble?

i would be interested but not if you use discord. mumble sounds good to me

>>11678 >>11677 >>11675 aight, I finished setting a mumble account. When we meeting in the lainchan server?

I would like to join if possible. Not sure if I can make it because of the time difference. Maybe just set a date and time? Or use some appointment polling tool?

>>11680 I can do 23:00 or later, CET, any day. We can arrange this for the next week or something. Should allow for people to come here and check it, this exchange has been quite slow. When?

>>11140 I've never used mumble before, so don't know how it works. is there like a server with a designated ip address to which to connect by a password?

>>11687 It's really easy. You just install the mumble client, type in some username and the lainchan.org address and you're connected. There's also a third party Android client that's still maintained.

Lol,no one reads nowadays,you think someone can go discuss PHILOSOPHY of a man that is known for inspiring the creator of communism?

>>11693 Marx flipped Hegel around so it does not count. But yeah, personally I prefer Heidegger. Just readin Hegel to understand all the inside jokes from Being And Time.

I don't think philosophy is a valid endeavor.

>>11695 you've just now made a philosophical claim.

There's any good reading guide on how to get into continental philosophy?

>>11711 I'm not sure I fully understand your goal. Is it about getting an overview over important philosophers and their works? Then maybe just read a book about the history of philosophy. I think there are many great ones. But if it's about philosophical thinking then you might start anywhere since it's often about timeless ideas and concepts. (At least that's the goal, didn't always work out.) Start with a philosopher that covers questions you ask yourself. And then move along his philosophical genealogy in any direction. It's not only about studying texts but more about "thinking". Or just start with Nietzsche and use him as a signpost if you either like or dislike him.

>>11694 eh, depends. Althusser's reading is that Marx never did "flip" anything. In the famous passage > With (Hegel, the dialectic) is standing on its head. It must be turned right side up again, if you would discover the rational kernel within the mystical shell It seems like it was that rational kernel - dialectic - within speculative shell. Of course, this presents a problem. The idea that there is "pure" kernel somewhere within Hegel (not contaminated) implies that there is some pre-contamination kernel that has to be extracted. You know what Marx could not stand for this, I presume. Instead, Marx reconstructs the dialectic without it's obscured form. So it's not as much an inversion, as it's restructuralization. Stuff like "negation of a negation" have different meaning for a Hegelian and a Marxist. I fully agree with the sentiment of >Marx flipped Hegel around so it does not count. though. If anything Hegel can easily be found in both liberal /and/ fascist philosophies. The difference is that "leftists" are painfully aware of that Hegelian influence. This is more of a reply to >>11693 afaik.

>>11720 I was preoccupied with start from the beginning of continental philosophy, like going from Kant foward, so you don't really need start with Kant?

I finished the preface and the introduction of the book. And I have to admit, I have some trouble understanding its contents. It seems to me that central concepts are science ("Wissenschaft") and knowledge ("Wissen"). Philosophy should be made into a science and the "becoming of science" is what the book's about, isn't it? Well, but I didn't get what Hegel actually means with all the words he introduces. I'm no Hegelian. Maybe I can build in understanding while reading the main text. Or maybe I'm just too dumb for Hegel, we'll see. At the end of the preface, he's just hating against people that don't like or don't get philosophy. And against mathematics. He writes about mathematical truths and philosophical truths. I understand the part about mathematics but what exactly are philosophical truths, like, for example? Didn't know about concepts that all philosophers agree with but maybe I just don't have the rights understanding of the term in a Hegelian context. >>11721 "Contamination" is quite the strong word. But in philosophy, I often assume that words are used in a different context. I think for now I'll just continue reading and try to get my own grasp on Hegel's dialectic "core".

>>11724 this is precisely the context you think it is. Both Hegel and Marx - as many others - wished to end philosophy (Marxist project is, unlike Wittgensteinan's project for example, to pose philosophical questions in context of science of history). And since, Hegel was great bourgeois philosopher, the young Marx felt strongly about his influence. Mind you, this was before going full materialist. Older Marx would reject it, mostly because this implies that there is "thinking" beyond concrete conditions.

I created an initial survey for getting a hint about when to potentially meeting up in mumble: https://crab.fit/readin-hegel-289212 It's a bit complicated when knowing nothing about the time zones of possible participants, but here, switching time zones is supported. >>11722 I think I understand now. Yes, for understanding the historical development of continental philosophy, start with Kant in chronological order. Don't start with primary texts. They lack historic context which is important as shown exemplary by >>11725 Furthermore, main works like Kant's "critique of pure reason" are quite dense and theoretical. If you want to look further into a philosopher's work, starting out with shorter articles might be easier to get a grasp on the writing style.