Love Your Neighbour as Yourself

The Scribes: Which Is the First Commandment of All? 28 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?” 29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” 32 So the scribe said to Him, “Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. 33 And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34 Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” But after that no one dared question Him.(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST, You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf. or in Biblical terms you may understand Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.)

Mark 12: The Pharisees: Is It Lawful to Pay Taxes to Caesar? 13 Then they sent to Him some of the Pharisees and the Herodians, to catch Him in His words. 14 When they had come, they said to Him, “Teacher, we know that You are true, and care about no one; for You do not regard the person of men, but teach the way of God in truth. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not? 15 Shall we pay, or shall we not pay?” But He, knowing their hypocrisy, said to them, “Why do you test Me? Bring Me a denarius that I may see it.” 16 So they brought it. And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?” They said to Him, “Caesar’s.” 17 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they marveled at Him.

Shares Bible Verses: User Has Been Warned Yeah, okay, I got the Gist, Satan.(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST,Always argue in good faith and avoid using personal attacks.)

Habakkuk 1: The Prophet Questions God’s Judgments 1 The burden which the prophet Habakkuk saw. The Prophet’s Question 2 O Lord, how long shall I cry, And You will not hear? Even cry out to You, “Violence!” And You will not save. 3 Why do You show me iniquity, And cause me to see trouble? For plundering and violence are before me; There is strife, and contention arises. 4 Therefore the law is powerless, And justice never goes forth. For the wicked surround the righteous; Therefore perverse judgment proceeds. The Lord’s Reply 5 “Look among the nations and watch— Be utterly astounded! For I will work a work in your days Which you would not believe, though it were told you. 6 For indeed I am raising up the Chaldeans, A bitter and hasty nation Which marches through the breadth of the earth, To possess dwelling places that are not theirs. 7 They are terrible and dreadful; Their judgment and their dignity proceed from themselves. 8 Their horses also are swifter than leopards, And more fierce than evening wolves. Their chargers charge ahead; Their cavalry comes from afar; They fly as the eagle that hastens to eat. 9 “They all come for violence; Their faces are set like the east wind. They gather captives like sand. 10 They scoff at kings, And princes are scorned by them. They deride every stronghold, For they heap up earthen mounds and seize it. 11 Then his mind changes, and he transgresses; He commits offense, Ascribing this power to his god.”

The bible is full of miracles. For instance, it says that Moses tied his ass to a tree and walked forty miles. That's pretty amazing.

1 Peter 5: To the Elders and the Flock 1 To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2 Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away. 5 In the same way, you who are younger, submit yourselves to your elders. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.” 6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. 8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9 Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings. 10 And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. 11 To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen.

It's always a good idea to keep a bible in the bathroom, in case you run out of toilet paper. No other book has paper as soft and absorbant.

Didn't read. We can't take any more of your soykafty religions. You're the worst people there are.

Psalm 14: For the director of music. Of David. 1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. 2 The Lord looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. 3 All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. 4 Do all these evildoers know nothing? They devour my people as though eating bread; they never call on the Lord. 5 But there they are, overwhelmed with dread, for God is present in the company of the righteous. 6 You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor, but the Lord is their refuge. 7 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When the Lord restores his people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!

They should make convicted child-molesters wear clerical collars so everyoine can see they're perverts. There have never been any more repulsive centers of organized evil than religions.

>>10219 Shut up with your fairytales

what is it with christians thinking their religion is the end all be all of existence, it's getting harder to respect their practice by the day lol. man do i sound like a cringe atheist saying that

> or in Biblical terms you may understand Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.) It seems janny is also a fairytale believer

Matthew 8: The Cost of Discipleship 18 And when Jesus saw great multitudes about Him, He gave a command to depart to the other side. 19 Then a certain scribe came and said to Him, “Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go.” 20 And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.” 21 Then another of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.” 22 But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

John 14: Jesus Comforts His Disciples 1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.” Jesus the Way to the Father 5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” 8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” 9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

>>10241 > it's getting harder to respect their practice by the day lol. Implying you would ever have respected it in the first place, Fedora. Why don't you study the blade some more and advocate for homosex while you are at it?

I stumbled across a chart listing the history of religions in various parts of the world. The oldest religion almost everywhere, extending back into prehistory, is something called "animism," so I looked it up. I guessed it would be some sort of worship of animals. But it turns out that it's the belief that everything, including rocks, plants, rivers, clouds,mountains, etc. has a spirit or consciousness, and humans live in a relationship with them. Pretty cool, and reminded me of Spinoza's idea that nature (in the sense of "the physical world") is the real "god". It's something I find easy to agree with. After all, the laws of nature are the only ones we can't break at all. But if we understand the we can use them to our own advantage. It also reminded me of the ancient belief in Pan, the god of nature. But I think they were using the word "nature" to refer to the biosphere of Earth, rather than you whole physical universe. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that.) Then I decided to see if animism is still practiced anywhere. That led me to some books on the subject, which I'm going to look through and learn more. Seems like the metaphor of "negotiating with nature" is a lot more useful than the metaphor of "obeying an all-powerful king".

I'd like to talk about the Bible. The Bible describes hell as a lake of fire intended to deliver eternal punishment to sinners. The justification for this is that sinners committed sins in their temporal life that was given to them by God; instead of living the way God intended, they did things God did not approve. The implication here is that people have free will, and so choose to do things that are good or evil, as dictated by God. Exercising one's will in a way not conforming to God's values is then an evil deserving of a punishment that is eternal hellfire. Additionally, people who do not know the word of God are not punished for their sins, as they did not have the chance to know any better. There is just one thing that makes the punishment of hell, or any punishment at all, bizzare. There is no free will in Christianity. The scripture is quite clear: God is omniscient >Psalms 147:5 Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite. >1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. >Jeremiah 1:4-5 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. >Jeremiah 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD. >Isaiah 42:9 - Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. >Isaiah 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding. >1 Samuel 10:2 When thou art departed from me to day, then thou shalt find two men by Rachel's sepulchre in the border of Benjamin at Zelzah; and they will say unto thee, The asses which thou wentest to seek are found: and, lo, thy father hath left the care of the asses, and sorroweth for you, saying, What shall I do for my son? >2 Kings 8:12 And Hazael said, Why weepeth my lord? And he answered, Because I know the evil that thou wilt do unto the children of Israel: their strong holds wilt thou set on fire, and their young men wilt thou slay with the sword, and wilt dash their children, and rip up their women with child. >Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: And omnipotent >Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. >Genesis 18:14 Is any thing too hard for the Lord? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son. >Psalm 105:24 And he increased his people greatly; and made them stronger than their enemies. >Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; >Isaiah 44:28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid. >Proverbs 16:9 - A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. >Job 12:10 - In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind. >Psalms 22:28 - For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations. >James 4:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. >Psalm 33:10 The Lord bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect. >Exodus 4:21 And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. Here in Exodus we see that God can make people sin and punish them for it. Here are more cases of this >Romans 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. >Proverbs 16:4 - The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. >Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. These verses establish that God's knowledge is limitless, that God can see the future, that God can do anything, and essentially causes everything to happen. He can do whatever he wants, like cause people to sin against "their own will" (which implies he would be making them do something he did not initially design them to do, seems like flawed thinking for an omniscient god who is supposed to exist beyond the frame of time but whatever.) If God is omniscient and omnipotent, how then can any one's sins truly be their own? The entirety of a person is created by God. Their soul, their genetics, their biology, their personality. All of it is the deliberate, knowledgeable creation of God. Their path through life is known in its entirety to God before it has even began. God can even make them sin against their own will. From the perspective of God, humans, like all other creations, are nothing but wind-up toys. He creates them, and sets them loose. Unlike a human predicting the deterministic path a wind-up toy will take, God can see its path in its entirety before it has moved. You then are not actually choosing to sin. God is choosing that 'you' sin. The concept of your self as defined by your will, is an illusion. You have no will of your own, your self-awareness has lead you to believe that you have a will of your own. God gets to write the story, and if it does not turn out in your favor, it is just your fault, and that is the end of it. In fact, there is a book called the Book of Life that was written before any of us were alive that charts our fates of heaven and hell. It is not rational, but there is not really any way to logically disprove God. God can simply not be logical, and what can you do about it, as a mortal? Nothing. But, to accept the absurdity of Christianity, you have to reject rational thinking, and admit that to the world. You have to accept that God can make people do whatever he wants, and then judge them for it, even if it seems wrong, hell, even if it seems wrong by Christianity's own standards.

>>10338 >It is not rational, but there is not really any way to logically disprove God. On the contrary, it is highly rational to say that there is not really any way to logically disprove God. The most rigorous logic leads to agnosticism. not atheism. And that's why agnostics are the real hard-core skeptics instead of atheists. Atheism is just another faith-based ideology. As far as the Bible goes, it's superb literature, but there's no reason to believe that any of it is true. It's pretty interesting to note that Isaac Newton was profoundly religious, and calculated. from data in the Bible. that the world would end some time around 2060, I think it was. Then again, Newton had a long spell of insanity.

>>10339 Atheism can be a position, as in posited positively, or a default lack thereof, at least one of which is not incompatible with the assertion that the existence of god can’t be known.

>>10339 Russel's Teapot disproved or at least put a pretty big challenge to that argument almost a century ago. Not knowing if it's true or false doesn't automatically make a middle ground of "it might be" the most logical option. If something sounds implausible and it can't be proven, you'd probably lean towards false in the absence of evidence if you were logically minded. Besides, I fail to see how atheism is faith-based. As in "I have faith God's not real"? Couldn't you make the same argument about agnosticism then, "I have faith that I don't know if God is real or not"?

>>10342 Ignoring teapot. I use faith to to mean "a belief in X". As in, I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. You cannot have faith in the undeterminedness of an outcome, there is nothing there to have faith about. I can have faith that my next coinflip will be heads. I can have faith that my next coinflip will be tails. I can have faith that my next coinflip will be either heads or tails. I cannot have faith I don't know what my next coinflip will be, because this isn't establishing anything to have faith about. So agnostics cannot be said to have faith in their personal ability to not know if god is or isn't. > teapot argument Fine and well for teapots, we have plenty of reason to have good intuition (logic) about teapots. I've seen a teapot, I know how they are made and where they typically are, I can understand how hard it is for one to wind up in orbit. From a hard R athiest standpoint, we have zero grounds for intuition (logic) about god. Athiest has never seen god, never felt him, never seen the effects of god, etc. How can you reason about something that is unknowable to you? (You can't). So, in the absence of a logical option, to a hard-R athiest, agnosticism appears the default solution to the god-teapot dilemma.

>>10345 For the first part, that's bullshit that makes any sort of belief comparable to religion. It's like saying that the "faith" that I'll like a meal I've liked multiple times before and the "faith" that a completely untested economic system should be implemented. I can't say that "faith" should be compared to any belief that you have because the evidence makes it feel reasonable. And for the latter argument, you can make the same argument you made about God about Dragons, Fairies, Leprechauns, King Arthur, Zeus, Horus or really any folkloric/ religious figure not known to have an IRL model. Are you agnostic about the existence of Fairies and Dragons? Secondly, you have the grounds of the Bible when it comes to God - you can make inferences such as the decline of reported supernatural miracles as information recording tech improves from word of mouth, to writing, to photos to videos. Also, there's the various inconsistencies in the Bible such as whether God strikes down Judas or Judas kills himself. Or how animals should be roughly as old as the Earth (only a couple of days between them) and how should see human fossils roughly as old as the earliest animal fossils for the same reason. Based on the trustworthiness of the source, we can make logical assumptions that the supernatural person who's existence has no real evidence for it contained within is most likely false - AKA - atheist in the absence of evidence.

>>10346 >For the first part, that's bullshit that makes any sort of belief comparable to religion. etc... Sorry, I am uncertain exactly what you are arguing, can you maybe rephrase for me? In the meantime, I will try to guess, but I may guess wrong, so please do not take offense. >I can't say that "faith" should be compared to any belief that you have because the evidence makes it feel reasonable. In the way that I am using faith, "a belief in X", all forms of faith are equivalent (to put it another way, faith in this usecase is boolean, present or absent, not gradated). So an athiest can be said to "have faith that god is not real". They may or may not choose to make this statement, but this is a statement that can be made. An agnostic cannot be said to "have faith that god may or may not be real", since this is not having faith about anything at all, it is an error. It is akin to saying "Heavy is a color.", or "My favorite food is Tuesday." Note I am not arguing that faith (as I am using it) is equivalent to all other forms of belief/opinion, I am not. An athiest's belief that god is not real may be more justified than a christian's belief to the contrary. My only goal is to point out that the agnostic's lack of knowledge does not constitute a belief at all. (Stating that said knowledge is impossible is a belief, and that can be subject to faith, rightness, wrongness, whatever). > Are you agnostic about the existence of Fairies and Dragons? Fun point. I will address in two parts. > am I agnostic about the existence of fairies and dragons ON EARTH? I am disinclined to believe in fairies and dragons on earth, since I know what they are supposed to look like and to do, and I have never seen them before. Notably, the claim is that fairies and dragons are "earth-like" things that follow "earth-like" rules, a fairy is just a little magical child thing, and a dragon is just a big lizard with fiery breath. These are analogous enough to things I know that I can reasonably claim to "reason" about them. > am I agnostic about the existence of fairies and dragons ANYWHERE? Yep. Universe is big, I am little, could be a dragon planet out there somewhere. I've seen no evidence to the contrary, and nothing about a dragon is physically impossible so far as I can tell. The implicit question(s): 1> what is the difference between dragons and god? Dragons are (supposed to be) physical creatures, material things, like a big lizard. I have seen enough material, lizardy things to reason about them. God is (supposed to be) a non-material, spiritual thing. I have never seen or known a spiritual thing, in fact as a purely physical being I CANNOT see, know, or acquire knowledge about such a being. So I am unequipped to reason about it. It is as if I asked you how many sides a "quidfraringle" has. You have never seen a quidfraringle, how no way of knowing about a quidfraringle so you cannot hope to answer correctly. 2> doesn't this also work for zeus, horus, etc.? Probably more or less. It relies on a lack of knowledge and lack of a physical presence, so any god who claims to be hanging around in my local coffee shop would be under stricter scrutiny. >Secondly, you have the grounds of the Bible when it comes to God This only applies to judeochristian god, I am only arguing for God in the purest (least denominated) sense. >Based on the trustworthiness of the source, we can make logical assumptions that the supernatural person who's existence has no real evidence for it contained within is most likely false - AKA - atheist in the absence of evidence. Even if you accept this line of argument, it does nothing to address the non-denominational concept of God, which is (imo) the far more interesting one. >WARNING: Christian apologetics ahead< >WARNING: I do not want to devolve in bickering over apologetics, and would strongly prefer to focus on the non-christian, pure form of God< I'm not an expert, so my answers will be imperfect. > you can make inferences such as the decline of reported supernatural miracles as >information recording tech improves from word of mouth, to writing, to photos to >videos Forked argument. #1 Post-Jesus there isn't any need for miracles. Faith is spreading well enough, no need to sprinkle sauce on top. Jesus himself even argues that miracles alone are just parlor tricks, and expresses a preference to avoid performing them "on-demand", since they are not the root of real faith. #2 Miracles still happen, just have to define miracle the right (or wrong, in your opinion) way. > Also, there's the various inconsistencies in the Bible such as whether God strikes down Judas or Judas kills himself. Forked argument. #1 The judas case appears plausibly resolvable: https://www.gotquestions.org/Judas-die.html #2 Minor, humanoid errors in the bible don't act as a disproof of the judeochristian god, although they may introduce difficulties for those who claim that all biblical texts were 100% divinely: inspired, written, copied, and translated, forever. >Or how animals should be roughly as old as the Earth (only a couple of days between them) and how should see human >fossils roughly as old as the earliest animal fossils for the same reason How long is a day for the lord? Only the most conservative sects of christianity/judaism interpret it as a literal 24 hours, the rest are happy to recognize that this demarcation of time could be largely symbolic.

>>10349 I'll add one more thing on the "fossil" thing, which I think is useful for poking for fun: the (materialist's) absolute impossibility of knowledge You cannot prove, without relying on material assumptions, that anything has ever happened before. Oh, I'm sure you "remember" yesterday quite clearly- doesn't mean it happened. You could be a brain in a jar being fed false data. This is perfectly physically plausible. etc. etc. >But isn't that improbable? How can we judge improbable if we cannot even prove that last Tuesday really happened? See "Omphalos" for a full exposition w.r.t. evolution, God, etc. (I have not actually read this book). Alternatively, check out Hume (" A Treatise of Human Nature") for a more direct, philosophical approach (I have read hume, his writing is crispy and easy to read).

>>10349 I've got what I wanted from the second part as here I'd say we are at an impasse. As in for you issues with the Bible aren't points against God while for me they are because it's the only "real" source for his existence. But for the first, I mean that "a belief in X" is a useless definition for faith as by definition it spreads it too wide to the point I'd say you can't differentiate between knowledge, belief and faith. I'd specifically classify faith as "a belief in X not based on reasonable grounds" so someone who uses reason to argue against the existence of God wouldn't have faith he wasn't real but would have a belief that he wasn't. if that makes sense. And purely based on a spiritual God, I'd still for the same reason as I'd argue for innocent until proven guilty, or information being false until proven correct, claim that God doesn't exist until it is proven to. It doesn't matter if we can't prove it - if there's no evidence there's no reason to believe it - spiritual or no.

>>10350 And I'll respond to this too, again by what seems to me a reasonable definition for belief, knowledge and faith, that while nothing is 100% absolute in terms of knowledge there is a scale - both God and "everything is a simulation" are on the far end of little to no evidence. Evolution is not something that you can directly prove within a human lifespan really but you can - with fossils like you mentioned - find indirect evidence that while doesn't 100% prove acts as supporting evidence to the theory to the point where most people can believe it in a way certain enough for it not be faith for me. You'd need indirect evidence for simulation theory or God for me to take it seriously at all.

Just to clarify a few things... From The Oxford Dictionary of American English (2005) a-the-ism /'eiGiizam/ noun [u] the belief that there is no God a-the-ist /'eiGiist/ noun [c] a person who believes that there is no God And classical skepticism is the idea that nothing can be known, so the appropriate viewpoint is suspension of judgement. It has nothing to to with whether or not something "might be" or "probably isn't" true. Also, ad hominem and straw man arguments are logical fallacies. That is, personal attacks and distortions of another person's arguments are rhetorical poo-poo. :)

1 Corinthians 15: 33 Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.”[e] 34 Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame. The Resurrection Body 35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. 42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man. 50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h] 55 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”[i] 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

>As in for you issues with the Bible aren't points against God while for me they are because it's the only "real" source for his existence. This is why I was hesistant to write any apologia. To be clear, my main interest is in arguing about the existence or non-existence of God in the pure sense, not in the christian, muslim, hindu, or native american sense. For this God, the bible has zero relevance. If you want to discuss in-depth biblical issues, I am 100% down, I think it is a fun recreational exercise. But until we really nail one down, I don't think we can conclude one-way or the other whether those issues are/aren't points against the existence of a judeochristian God. (As in, we need a specific issue, fully discussed). >I'd specifically classify faith as "a belief in X not based on reasonable grounds" This is fine, but notice that this cuts both ways. To a christian, an athiest is relying on faith, since he is being unreasonable. To an athiest, a christian is relying on faith, since he is being unreasonable. Also, if I believe that 7+7=11, because eleven rhymes with seven, you would say I have faith that 7+7=391, since my grounds are unreasonable. We can use this definition if you want to, but I'm a bit wary of it, and it is pretty far from normal use. >re: Spiritual God: if there's no evidence there's no reason to believe it - spiritual or no. Now THIS is much more interesting. Two questions: 1) Is this the normal standard we apply when reasoning? / The standard we should actually default to? 2) Is there actually no evidence? If you are up for it, I'd be really happy to work through either or both of these. >>10354 The usual argument for simulation theory is pretty straightforward: 1) Smart things like to make simulations 2) Smart things eventually emerge in any universe that runs for long enough 3) Eventually, a smart thing left to run for long enough will decide to simulate it's own universe Now we have 1 real universe, and 1 simulation, but presumably rules 1-3 apply to the simulation just as well. The simualated universe's smart things ALSO decide to build a simulation of the universe. Now we have 1 real universe, and 2 simulations. Presumably the cycle goes on and on, until we have 1 real universe, and countless simulations. Assign yourself randomly to one of these universes (no way to know which we are in, after all), and you are 99.999999999% etc odds of being in the simulation. Now, I don't necessarily believe this, just pointing out that reasonable, non-falsifiable arguments for it exist. Which is all the standard it takes, I think, to force agnosticism towards the issue of simulations. >that while nothing is 100% absolute in terms of knowledge This is the start of ANOTHER great discussion, but I don't think we really have time for it here... But for curiosities sake, do you mean: 1) Nothing can ever be known, ever, by anything or anyone 2) Humans can never know anything for certain (but if God existed he could, or something. maybe aliens?) 3) Most things cannot be known for certain, but some can (e.g: 1+1=2, a triangle has three sides) >re: evolution To clarify: if I accept the material world as trustworthy, evolution is a well-supported hypothesis that is 100% reasonable. It is 100% proven at the micro-scale as well. Modifications are almost certainly necessary to achieve 100% truth (xeno-seeding is a wild ideal that MAY be plausible), but as it stands it is basically correct. HOWEVER: I do not think I can trust the material world to provide me with actual knowledge, only with impressions (in the Kantian or platonic sense, if that helps). >dictionary Not sure what this is in reference to, but it seems fine to me. >skepticism etc. I think this is exactly what I was trying to say... Something to the effect of: If you are a hard materialist, you are (imo) trapped in hard skepticism, since you have no ability to acquire real knowledge. >Also, ad hominem and straw man arguments are logical fallacies. That is, personal attacks and distortions of another person's arguments are rhetorical poo-poo. :) I uh, was going out of my way to avoid these... If you could point them out, I'll apologize. Unless by straw-man you meant my giving really simple examples to explain my views- In which case these were meant only to clarify, and not to put words in your mouth, sorry for any misunderstanding. Maybe it would help things if I said my actual views: 1) I believe in a God in the pure, spiritual sense 2) I am torn on whether or not to accept a particular version of the christian view of things >>10357 >55 “Where, O death, is your victory? > Where, O death, is your sting?” And the father said to his son, "You don't need to be scared of that bee anymore, I've got his stinger right here." and pointed to the wound in his palm.

>>10358 soykaf i fuarrrked up the post-number references. hopefully you can figure it out- my bad.

>>10229 best joke i've heard in a while >>10235 >>10236 >>10239 >>10240 :'( r3r4? >>10330 please share any good texts you find I've already read spinoza, he's alright, although I interpreted him a bit differently from you

Revelation 3: To the Church in Laodicea 14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me. 21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Man, when I'm on the throne I don't want anybody sitting with me, or even in the bathroom.

Matthew 18: The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant 21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[g] 23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold[h] was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt. 26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go. 28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins.[i] He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded. 29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’ 30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened. 32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. 35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”[spoiler][/spoiler]

And then Jesus arose from death and walked out of His tomb. And, Lo, he saw his shadow and returned to His hole for another month to await the end of winter.

Romans 7: Released From the Law, Bound to Christ 1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man. 4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. The Law and Sin 7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. 14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

False dichotomy. You don't have to be any kind of slave. Abrahamic religions are nothing more than slave training. They all boil down to one word: "Obey!" No, thank you.

>>10415 >>10415 Alright I'll bite. Since it is really slow to do socratic question-answer on chans (best way to talk shop IMO), I'll give a hypothetical discussion between you and me, with me as questioner, and I will "guess" at your answers. When you disagree with my guess, please post your point of disagreement and we will go from there. Christian POV: You are either a slave to sin or to god. Your POV: You do not have to be a slave. I would ask, "We act the way we do because we choose to? (to establish that you believe in some form of free-will-choice)" You might say, "Yes" (otherwise you are a slave to "fate" ala determinism) I would ask, "Is there a reason that we choose the things that we choose, or do we choose randomly?" You might say, "There is a reason." (Otherwise we are slaves to randomness- e.g: if you make all your choices on a coinflip you are a slave to the coin, it isn't YOU choosing, but the coin) I would ask, "So we choose the things we choose because of this reason? As in, this reason, whatever it is for each of us, causes us to make our choices a certain way?" (to be certain we understand each other) You might say, "Yes." I would ask, "And by causing us to choose a certain way, this reason, whatever it is, leads us, guides us, etc.?" ( Note that the reason can be whatever you want.) You might say, "Yes." I would ask, "Imagine a man riding a horse. The man leads the horse at all times, and to all places?" You might say, "Yes." (Unless you wanted to split hairs about when the horse took a soykaf or whatever) I would ask, "Now, which is the master, the man or the horse?" You might say, "The man." I would ask, "So the one who leads is the master? And the one who is led, the servant?" You might say, "Yes." I would ask, "Now, we agreed all our choices are caused, or lead, by a certain reason. Yes?" You might say, "Yes." I would ask, "And, by analogy to the horse, since our reason is always leading, and we are always following, our reason, whatever it is, is the master, and we are the servant of it?" You might say, "Yes." I would ask, "So this shows that we are, inevitably, the servants of our reason that guides us, whatever it may be?" You might say, "Yes." Now to clarify what I mean by "the reason that we choose things because of" It could be many things, examples: 1) Pleasure. Many people do the things they do because they feel nice (e.g: eat a cookie, masturbate, watch funny TV show, read thriller novel, etc.). If you are a materialist-hedonist, you think that 100% of things are motivated by our desire for pleasure, which still makes us all 100% slaves, just slaves (or servants) to pleasure. (Obeying pleasure is still obeying) 2) The Good. This is when people do things not because they feel nice, but because they are right. (e.g: matrying yourself, taking the time to teach a bratty child properly, not beating your wife, working hard, etc.). Materialist-hedonists argue that people who think they are acting on account of this are actually just pursuing a different sort of pleasure, and that there is no actual "right"- we can agree to disagree BUT in either case you are still a servant to something. I am certain you will disagree with one or more points. If you are feeling generous, I would appreciate it if you wrote a similar sort of Q-A branching from the point where our disagreement first arose.

Textbook straw man logical fallacy. Thanks, but I'll just watch you chase your own tail.

>>10417 Lainchan guide to feeling superior: 1) Make a claim 2) Get asked to discuss said claim 3) Refuse, and insult anyone that disagrees with you 4) Seethe and Dilate ya worthless troon. Tossing this in since I guess this is how things work around here now. >>10219 The Nier music is honestly a great addition to this thread. Do you have any older christian artwork to share?

Matthew 6: Prayer 5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation,[a] but deliver us from the evil one.[b]’ 14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Matthew 7: Do Not Judge 1 “Judge[a] not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what [b]judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. 6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces. Keep Asking, Seeking, Knocking 7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! 12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. The Narrow Way 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 [c]Because narrow is the gate and [d]difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. You Will Know Them by Their Fruits 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Yeah, there are lots of fruits in the clergy molesting kids. Churches are like safe-houses supporting perverts and rapists. But what can you expect? Clergy have one of the highest rates of psychopathy of any profession. Talk about hypocrisy.

Romans 8: Life Through the Spirit 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you. 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Joshua 1: 7 “Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the law my servant Moses gave you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, that you may be successful wherever you go. 8 Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. 9 Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.”

>>10342 russell is a complete joke to people who actually read. see what wittgenstein had to say about his philosophy >>10338 cope >thoughts are determined by chemical causality >ie you cannot help but believe in what you believe >ie truth is bullshit same applies to atheism

>>10236 you have literally samefagged the thread 50 times throwing a tantrum. you seem mentally ill

>>10473 The amount of seething that Christianity causes on these people is insane, not even other religions have the same effect. I don't consider myself a religious person but I would never throw a tantrum like that.

>>10474 things that rely on the dark to hunt don't like a light being shone on them

>>10472 Care to elaborate upon how I am coping and how I would be wrong in what I have said? Or are you only capable of 3 line prefabricated responses? I checked the verses in NRSVUE and they are the same in essence. This line >KJV Proverbs 16:9 - A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. reminded me of this quote of Schopenhauer >Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills. In context some Bible verses seem to me like they are saying we have no free will and god runs everything. But punishment becomes strange when coupled with this, especially eternal punishment.

>>10477 if you want an interesting perspective, check out: st. augustine "On Free Choice of the Will"

>>10479 >>10477 body too short, here is book please let me post, in this little nook of a thread, full of christian quotations in an ocean of doubt, this provides floatation

God bless you old pee. God is God.

What did God sacrifice by having Jesus die? Jesus knew he was going to die on the cross and be resurrected. So in the end nothing was lost other than what, some pride, assuming Jesus is God - an omnipotent being? And if not, some temporary pain in exchange for eternal life and the ability to give anyone eternal life from the point in time of his death and forwards. That's not worse than what many people have gone through in vain. His death is more of a ritual sacrifice, like killing an animal for some ritual or burning an effigy.

>>10486 Yup, The Bible does not contradict your assumption, Jesus Christ died on the Cross as a Lamb lead to be Sacrificed to Wash us of our own Crimes. In the same way His Temporary Pain Granted Eternal Life, We too walk through life only temporarily in so much Decadence, Filth and Suffering to one day Join Christ in the Kingdom of God. It's not about God needing a sacrifice, It's about us requiring a Sacrifice in order to absolve our sins, our rot, our wickedness.

Romans 12: A Living Sacrifice 1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. Humble Service in the Body of Christ 3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. 4 For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your[a] faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead,[b] do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully. Love in Action 9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11 Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13 Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality. 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.[c] Do not be conceited. 17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] says the Lord. 20 On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[e] 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Isaiah 53: 1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b] 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e]; by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g] and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h] because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

>>10489 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all the kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, said the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Thank you for making this thread, OP. I like the Scripture as well as the cool music you provided. Peace be with you.

Matthew 6: Do Not Worry 25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]? 28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Deuteronomy 5: 6 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 7 “You shall have no other gods before[b] me. 8 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. 11 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. 12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. 16 “Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the Lord your God is giving you. 17 “You shall not murder. 18 “You shall not commit adultery. 19 “You shall not steal. 20 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. 21 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor’s house or land, his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Sexual abuse victim says monk stole her childhood Rebecca is one of 16 survivors who have shared their experience of child sexual abuse by a monk who lived on Caldey Island, off the coast of Pembrokeshire. https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c8781j5eq2go

Psalm 1: The Way of the Righteous and the End of the Ungodly 1 Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the [a]ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; 2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord, And in His law he [b]meditates day and night. 3 He shall be like a tree Planted by the [c]rivers of water, That brings forth its fruit in its season, Whose leaf also shall not wither; And whatever he does shall prosper. 4 The ungodly are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind drives away. 5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. 6 For the Lord knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the ungodly shall perish.

"Bernard Francis Cardinal Law was a senior-ranking prelate of the Catholic Church, known largely for covering up the serial rape of children by Catholic priests." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Francis_Law

Merry Christmas frens! Hope all of you and yours have a blessed one!

>>10717 Marry Christmas! I hope that this Present Day will be a happy one, experienced with friends and family peacefully, as is it very important in Present Day

What I wish for the most every day is a significant other. I feel unbearably alone, useless, weak and misplaced. I cried this morning and I might cry before bed. I beg God to grant me at least Peace of Mind if He intends for me to be single all the days of my life. I try to be patient and faithful, I try to trust in Him and Hope for the Best. I don't know how many more years or days I can keep living with such a huge hole in my heart. Either way, I wish you the best and may Jesus Christ Heal and Bless your lives.

>>10719 I come in peace. I think this is one of the issues Nietzsche had with Christianity. You're so focused in finding meaning beyond yourself you kind of give up in a helpless state instead of realizing you can make up for your own faults. Stop seeking things from others and work on yourself first. Christmas is another codependency hell. I don't blame that so much on Christianity as I do on consumerism though.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.

Philippians 4: 10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly that now at last your[c] care for me has flourished again; though you surely did care, but you lacked opportunity. 11 Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: 12 I know how to [d]be abased, and I know how to [e]abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all things through [f]Christ who strengthens me.

Job 17: 11 My days are past, My purposes are broken off, Even the [c]thoughts of my heart. 12 They change the night into day; ‘The light is near,’ they say, in the face of darkness. 13 If I wait for the grave as my house, If I make my bed in the darkness, 14 If I say to corruption, ‘You are my father,’ And to the worm, ‘You are my mother and my sister,’ 15 Where then is my hope? As for my hope, who can see it? 16 Will they go down to the gates of [d]Sheol? Shall we have rest together in the dust?”

>>10480 I read your book that you sent within a few days of you sending it. I decided not to reply at the time, because it seemed pointless and kind of sad to be so voraciously opposed to you people. I found that the book addressed none of my arguments. All Augustine did was insist that there is free will and we are to blame for our actions. His argumentation for this does not even quote scripture as a basis. Augustine's head canon of how things should be regarding Christianity has no basis assuming it does not adhere to the Bible. What I read did not adhere to the Bible, so it's moot. I'm bored right now, so I'll summarize some notes I took notes while reading it. Augustine's most crucial point to me was that God's foreknowledge of someone's sins does not make God responsible for their sins. He gave an analogy: >Augustine: Unless I am mistaken, you would not force someone to sin as a result of foreknowing that he is going to sin. Nor would your foreknowledge force him to sin, despite the fact that he undoubtedly is going to sin, since otherwise you would not foreknow that it is going to be so. Therefore, just as these two things are not opposed, namely that you know by your foreknowledge what someone is going to do by his will, so too God, although He does not force anyone into sinning, nevertheless foresees those who are going to sin by their own will. Why, then, should a God equipped with justice and foreknowledge not redress what he does not force to happen? Just as you do not force past things to have happened by your memory, so too God does not force future things to happen by His foreknowledge. And just as you ­remember some of the things you have done and yet have not done all the things you remember, so too God foreknows all the things of which He is the author and yet is not the author of all the things He foresees. He is not the evil author of these things; He justly exacts retribution for them. There is a glaring issue with his analogy. I am not omnipotent, nor is any other person, as far as I am aware. People are not God. People are not omnipotent and omniscient, unlike how the Bible describes God. So, should one have foreknowledge of what a person will do, one is not necessarily responsible for what that person will do. However, if one should have some degree of influence upon said person, one's responsibility for whatever an act the person might commit can arise. Augustine is extremely verbose, so I selected a few more paragraphs that struck me as meaningful. >These are the grounds, then, on which you should understand how God justly punishes sins, namely because He does not do the things He knows will happen. For if He ought not hand out punishments to sinners because He foresaw that they were going to sin, on that account neither should He hand out rewards to those who act rightly, since He foresaw nonetheless that they would act rightly. Instead, let us acknowledge these two points: (a) it pertains to His foreknowledge that nothing that will be escapes Him; (b) it pertains to justice that sin, which is committed with the will, does not happen unpunished by His judgment, just as much as His foreknowledge does not force it to happen. >... whatever necessarily happens in His Creation is not to be imputed to its Creator – it will not easily dislodge the rule of religiousness we agreed to keep in mind, namely that we ought to render thanks to our Creator. His bountiful goodness would be praised most justly even if He had made us for some lower level of His Creation. "[W]e ought to render thanks to our Creator. His bountiful goodness would be praised most justly even if He had made us for some lower level of His Creation" this line is key to the essence of his real argument, which I'll get to. >Although our soul is festering with sins, it is still more exalted and better than if it were turned into mere visible light. See indeed how much even souls given over to the bodily senses praise God for the magnificence of this sort of light! Accordingly, do not let it upset you that sinning souls are blameworthy, so that you are led to say in your heart that it would have been better had they not existed. They are blameworthy in comparison with themselves, [namely] when one thinks of how they would be had they been unwilling to sin. Still, God their arranger should be given the highest praise that human beings can offer, not only because He justly puts them in order as the sinners they are, but also because He has arranged them so that even when they are stained by sin they are not in any way surpassed in dignity by mere physical light (for which He is nonetheless praised). >I also caution you to be careful about the following point. Perhaps you should not claim that it would have been better for them not to have existed. Instead, you should say that they ought to have been made differently. Now whatever may strike you as better in true reason, you should know that God, as the Creator of all goods, has made it. For it is not true reason but envious weakness when you think something should have been made better and then want nothing else lesser to be made, as if you wished the Earth had not been made once you saw the heavens – thor- oughly unreasonable! You would be right in finding fault if you saw that the Earth had been made but the heavens passed by. In that case, you could say that the Earth ought to have been made the way you can think of the heavens. But since you perceive that the object in whose likeness you wanted the Earth to be patterned has also been made, though it is called the heavens rather than the Earth, then you should not be envious at all, I think, that something lesser was made too (and it was the Earth), since you have not been cheated out of something better. >They declare: “He should have made us such that we always want to enjoy His unchangeable truth and never want to sin.” They should not rant and rage! God did not force them to sin merely because he gave to those whom He made the power whether they would so will >Indeed, there are some angels who never have sinned and never will sin. Accordingly, if you take delight in a creature who does not sin due to the perseverance of its will, there should be no question that you rank it by right reason ahead of one that sins. But just as you rank it in thought, so did God the Creator rank it when putting things in order. Believe that there is such a creature in the loftier realms of the heights of the heavens! For if the Maker furnished goodness to a creature whose future sins He foresaw, He would certainly furnish this goodness so as to make a creature which He foreknew would not sin What he's said is completely opposed to causality. >God did not force them to sin merely because he gave to those whom He made the power whether they would so will If God gave people (or anything) the power to live a sinful/sinless life, then he made people to live one way or the other way, so one could say that God "forced" someone to be a certain way. God creates and controls everything, so he ultimately decides i.e forces things to be the way they are. To Augustine, God is to be praised for essentially making all of us self-aware chess pieces. He is to be praised for creating the Queens, Rooks, Knights, and Bishops such that they were above the pawns. Everyone should be grateful to the magnanimous God that constructed reality so that it would appear as though each and every one of us has a fair chance of attaining paradise, when in reality God is pulling all of the strings. Augustine has little more than blind faith, which he earlier in the book points to as the bedrock of reasoned-belief in God. "[W]e ought to render thanks to our Creator. His bountiful goodness would be praised most justly even if He had made us for some lower level of His Creation" It's not God's fault he didn't give you the ability to do any better, it's your fault. All you slaves at the bottom had best be grateful for having a part in God's play. It would be better to exist, albeit, unbeknownst to you — hellbound, than to not exist at all. I can't blame Augustine for his ignorance, or his faulty logic. He lived in the 4th century. It was a very different time back then, very hierarchical as well which could explain his views of people lower on the totem poll. But someone in the modern age pawning this book off as a valid support for the belief that God doesn't predestine people to go to hell is mistaken, because God does, the Bible even says it. But maybe I'm completely wrong and Augustine made a wonderful case for free will existing and I somehow failed to recognize it in the verbosity of his writing. I don't feel the urge to re-read in order to find out.

>>10757 hello! i'm glad you took the time to reply. since it is kind of hard to argue over what someone else said (I haven't read OFCOTW in a while now), and because I think further discussion might be useful, i was hoping we could step back from christianity and instead examine a few broader questions. I think taking the subject in pieces this way will be useful, so we can figure out where we agree and where we disagree. First question: Do you think absolute foreknowledge removes free will? Two examples: #1: Say you magically possessed absolute knowledge that, when you offer your neighbor your right hand for a handshake, he will respond with his own right hand to complete the gesture. Does your foreknowledge compel his response / remove his will? #2: Say you magically possessed absolute knowledge that it will rain tomorrow. Does your foreknowledge force the clouds to float a certain way, and compel them to drop their rain? Does your foreknowledge of the rain also compel everyone to carry an umbrella, or is that decision made freely? If yes to all of the above, is a probabilistic knowledge probabilistically compelling, or is there something distinct about absolute knowledge?

>>10758 In terms of less consequential scenarios, I view foreknowledge to be of lesser significance. Assuming I lack omnipotence and I know it is going to rain, people's decision to use umbrellas is not compelled by me. However, if everyone else should be unaware that it is going to rain, I can make decisions regarding people using my foreknowledge. If I know my neighbor is going to greet me with his right hand when I go to greet him with my right hand, my foreknowledge does not necessarily compel him to greet me that way, but I could use my foreknowledge to manipulate his response. If I can manipulate his response, how free can it be? Even though the example doesn't assume I would manipulate his response, I still know what he is going to do, so I haven't compelled his response, but his response is not free of my foreknowledge which could permit me to intervene in the future in some way.

1 Corinthians 13: The Greatest Gift 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not [b]puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, [c]thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is [d]perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. 13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Psalm 44: Redemption Remembered in Present Dishonor To the Chief Musician. A Contemplation[a] of the sons of Korah. 1 We have heard with our ears, O God, Our fathers have told us, The deeds You did in their days, In days of old: 2 You drove out the [b]nations with Your hand, But them You planted; You afflicted the peoples, and cast them out. 3 For they did not gain possession of the land by their own sword, Nor did their own arm save them; But it was Your right hand, Your arm, and the light of Your countenance, Because You favored them. 4 You are my King, [c]O God; [d]Command victories for Jacob. 5 Through You we will push down our enemies; Through Your name we will trample those who rise up against us. 6 For I will not trust in my bow, Nor shall my sword save me. 7 But You have saved us from our enemies, And have put to shame those who hated us. 8 In God we boast all day long, And praise Your name forever. Selah 9 But You have cast us off and put us to shame, And You do not go out with our armies. 10 You make us turn back from the enemy, And those who hate us have taken [e]spoil for themselves. 11 You have given us up like sheep intended for food, And have scattered us among the nations. 12 You sell Your people for next to nothing, And are not enriched by selling them. 13 You make us a reproach to our neighbors, A scorn and a derision to those all around us. 14 You make us a byword among the nations, A shaking of the head among the peoples. 15 My dishonor is continually before me, And the shame of my face has covered me, 16 Because of the voice of him who reproaches and reviles, Because of the enemy and the avenger. 17 All this has come upon us; But we have not forgotten You, Nor have we dealt falsely with Your covenant. 18 Our heart has not turned back, Nor have our steps departed from Your way; 19 But You have severely broken us in the place of jackals, And covered us with the shadow of death. 20 If we had forgotten the name of our God, Or stretched[f] out our hands to a foreign god, 21 Would not God search this out? For He knows the secrets of the heart. 22 Yet for Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 23 Awake! Why do You sleep, O Lord? Arise! Do not cast us off forever. 24 Why do You hide Your face, And forget our affliction and our oppression? 25 For our soul is bowed down to the [g]dust; Our body clings to the ground. 26 Arise for our help, And redeem us for Your mercies’ sake.

Acts of John: 98 And having thus spoken, he showed me a cross of light fixed (set up), and about the cross a great multitude, not having one form: and in it (the cross) was one form and one likenesst [so the MS.; I would read: and therein was one form and one likeness: and in the cross another multitude, not having one form]. And the Lord himself I beheld above the cross, not having any shape, but only a voice: and a voice not such as was familiar to us, but one sweet and kind and truly of God, saying unto me: John, it is needful that one should hear these things from me, for I have need of one that will hear. This cross of light is sometimes called the (or a) word by me for your sakes, sometimes mind, sometimes Jesus, sometimes Christ, sometimes door, sometimes a way, sometimes bread, sometimes seed, sometimes resurrection, sometimes Son, sometimes Father, sometimes Spirit, sometimes life, sometimes truth, sometimes faith, sometimes grace. And by these names it is called as toward men: but that which it is in truth, as conceived of in itself and as spoken of unto you (MS. us), it is the marking-off of all things, and the firm uplifting of things fixed out of things unstable, and the harmony of wisdom, and indeed wisdom in harmony [this last clause in the MS. is joined to the next: 'and being wisdom in harmony']. There are [places] of the right hand and the left, powers also, authorities, lordships and demons, workings, threatenings, wraths, devils, Satan, and the lower root whence the nature of the things that come into being proceeded. 99 This cross, then, is that which fixed all things apart (al. joined all things unto itself) by the (or a) word, and separate off the things that are from those that are below (lit. the things from birth and below it), and then also, being one, streamed forth into all things (or, made all flow forth. I suggested: compacted all into [one]). But this is not the cross of wood which thou wilt see when thou goest down hence: neither am I he that is on the cross, whom now thou seest not, but only hearest his (or a) voice. I was reckoned to be that which I am not, not being what I was unto many others: but they will call me (say of me) something else which is vile and not worthy of me. As, then, the place of rest is neither seen nor spoken of, much more shall I, the Lord thereof, be neither seen [nor of spoken]. 100 Now the multitude of one aspect (al. [not] of one aspect) that is about the cross is the lower nature: and they whom thou seest in the cross, if they have not one form, it is because not yet hath every member of him that came down been comprehended. But when the human nature (or the upper nature) is taken up, and the race which draweth near unto me and obeyeth my voice, he that now heareth me shall be united therewith, and shall no more be that which now he is, but above them, as I also now am. For so long as thou callest not thyself mine, I am not that which I am (or was): but if thou hear me, thou, hearing, shalt be as I am, and I shall be that which I was, when I [have]thee as I am with myself. For from me thou art that (which I am). Care not therefore for the many, and them that are outside the mystery despise; for know thou that I am wholly with the Father, and the Father with me.

>>10877 101 Nothing, therefore, of the things which they will say of me have I suffered: nay, that suffering also which I showed unto thee and the rest in the dance, I will that it be called a mystery. For what thou art, thou seest, for I showed it thee; but what I am I alone know, and no man else. Suffer me then to keep that which is mine, and that which is thine behold thou through me, and behold me in truth, that I am, not what I said, but what thou art able to know, because thou art akin thereto. Thou hearest that I suffered, yet did I not suffer; that I suffered not, yet did I suffer; that I was pierced, yet I was not smitten; hanged, and I was not hanged; that blood flowed from me, and it flowed not; and, in a word, what they say of me, that befell me not, but what they say not, that did I suffer. Now what those things are I signify unto thee, for I know that thou wilt understand. Perceive thou therefore in me the praising (al. slaying al. rest) of the (or a) Word (Logos), the piercing of the Word, the blood of the Word, the wound of the Word, the hanging up of the Word, the suffering of the Word, the nailing (fixing) of the Word, the death of the Word. And so speak I, separating off the manhood. Perceive thou therefore in the first place of the Word; then shalt thou perceive the Lord, and in the third place the man, and what he hath suffered.

Why would you post nonsense from the apocryphal books? Get out of here

>>10886 Why would you expect anything else on here? Stay mad if you want to.

Daniel 9: 3 Then I set my face toward the Lord God to make request by prayer and supplications, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes. 4 And I prayed to the Lord my God, and made confession, and said, “O Lord, great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and mercy with those who love Him, and with those who keep His commandments, 5 we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. 6 Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. 7 O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to us shame of face, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You. 8 “O Lord, to us belongs shame of face, to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, because we have sinned against You. 9 To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, though we have rebelled against Him. 10 We have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. 11 Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, and has departed so as not to obey Your voice; therefore the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against Him. 12 And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem. 13 “As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us; yet we have not made our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities and understand Your truth. 14 Therefore the Lord has kept the disaster in mind, and brought it upon us; for the Lord our God is righteous in all the works which He does, though we have not obeyed His voice. 15 And now, O Lord our God, who brought Your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and made Yourself a name, as it is this day—we have sinned, we have done wickedly! 16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake [a]cause Your face to shine on [b]Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”

Matthew 5: Adultery 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Exodus 15: Bitter Waters Made Sweet 22 So Moses brought Israel from the Red Sea; then they went out into the Wilderness of Shur. And they went three days in the wilderness and found no water. 23 Now when they came to Marah, they could not drink the waters of Marah, for they were bitter. Therefore the name of it was called [d]Marah. 24 And the people complained against Moses, saying, “What shall we drink?” 25 So he cried out to the Lord, and the Lord showed him a tree. When he cast it into the waters, the waters were made sweet. There He made a statute and an [e]ordinance for them, and there He tested them, 26 and said, “If you diligently heed the voice of the Lord your God and do what is right in His sight, give ear to His commandments and keep all His statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you which I have brought on the Egyptians. For I am the Lord who heals you.”

Exodus 32: 31 Then Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Oh, these people have committed a great sin, and have made for themselves a god of gold! 32 Yet now, if You will forgive their sin—but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written.” 33 And the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book. 34 Now therefore, go, lead the people to the place of which I have spoken to you. Behold, My Angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit for punishment, I will visit punishment upon them for their sin.” 35 So the Lord plagued the people because of what they did with the calf which Aaron made.

How about those religious death house "boarding schools" indigenous children were forced to attend? How about the missionary wolves in sheep's clothing always sent first to soften up populations with religious bullshit before the cavalry comes in and wipes everyobody out? How about centuries of child rape by clergy in the name of "God". Is that your wayt of "loving your neighbor"? Why is it that clergy have one of the highest rates of psychopathy of any profession? Why is it that clergy pretend to be moral icons when they consistently commit some of the most repulsive and degenerate abominations against humankind? Religious people are the scum of the earth. To see religious predators working their con here is enough to make any decent person vomit.

>>10961 please show me on the doll where the priest touched you, lain. Jokes and opinions aside, I'm curious about some of the things you mentioned... >indig boarding schools I heard about this in the news, so I won't ask for sources. If you happen to have a good one cataloguing intentional death specifically, that would be nice. > Why is it that clergy have one of the highest rates of psychopathy of any profession? I only found one paper from 1990 (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01041955) which did not support the hypothesis that clergy are enriched for psychopathy. If you can share one or more papers with contrary data, that would be interesting. >How about centuries of child rape by clergy in the name of "God"? I know the Catholic church has shielded pedophiles for the last century or so, but I was not aware that the practice was older than this. If you have any actual data on this, I'd be interested in seeing it. mostly unrelated, but catholics != christians, so it's a bit unfair to include them in your criticism i mean, they literally worship a fake christ-figure in a pointy hat... >>10955 please keep this thread going.

>>10961 Romans 6: Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ 1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace

1 John 3: More on Love and Hatred 11 For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12 Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him. 16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. 17 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

Colossians 3 Not Carnality but Christ 1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory. 5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them. 8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all. Character of the New Man 12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. 14 But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. 15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him. The Christian Home 18 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them. 20 Children, obey your parents in all things, for this is well pleasing to the Lord. 21 Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged. 22 Bondservants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in sincerity of heart, fearing God. 23 And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for[a] you serve the Lord Christ. 25 But he who does wrong will be repaid for what he has done, and there is no partiality.

>>10963 >mostly unrelated, but catholics != christians >i mean, they literally worship a fake christ-figure in a pointy hat... It's incredibly intellectually dishonest to claim this, considering that for 1000 years all Christians were Catholics and for 1500 years all Christians were Catholics or Orthodox. You're also grossly misrepresenting the nature of the Papacy and its relationship with the laity. If you're trying to make serious arguments, you're doing a poor job of it by taking dumb positions purely for polemic reasons.

>>10984 >considering that for 1000 years all Christians were Catholics This is also incredibly intellectually dishonest. You should learn about the early history of the church and the many violent purges that were done against rival sects. "Catholicism" won these many purges because its ideology was the most beneficial to rulers.

>>10987 Its absolutely intellectually ingenuine is what it is. People like that will never listen no matter what pile of proof is before us. True NPCs.

Isaiah 58: Fasting that Pleases God 1 “Cry aloud, spare not; Lift up your voice like a trumpet; Tell My people their transgression, And the house of Jacob their sins. 2 Yet they seek Me daily, And delight to know My ways, As a nation that did righteousness, And did not forsake the ordinance of their God. They ask of Me the ordinances of justice; They take delight in approaching God. 3 ‘Why have we fasted,’ they say, ‘and You have not seen? Why have we afflicted our souls, and You take no notice?’ “In fact, in the day of your fast you find pleasure, And exploit all your laborers. 4 Indeed you fast for strife and debate, And to strike with the fist of wickedness. You will not fast as you do this day, To make your voice heard on high. 5 Is it a fast that I have chosen, A day for a man to afflict his soul? Is it to bow down his head like a bulrush, And to spread out sackcloth and ashes? Would you call this a fast, And an acceptable day to the Lord? 6 “Is this not the fast that I have chosen: To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke? 7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; When you see the naked, that you cover him, And not hide yourself from your own flesh? 8 Then your light shall break forth like the morning, Your healing shall spring forth speedily, And your righteousness shall go before you; The glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard. 9 Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer; You shall cry, and He will say, ‘Here I am.’ “If you take away the yoke from your midst, The pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness, 10 If you extend your soul to the hungry And satisfy the afflicted soul, Then your light shall dawn in the darkness, And your darkness shall be as the noonday. 11 The Lord will guide you continually, And satisfy your soul in drought, And strengthen your bones; You shall be like a watered garden, And like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. 12 Those from among you Shall build the old waste places; You shall raise up the foundations of many generations; And you shall be called the Repairer of the Breach, The Restorer of Streets to Dwell In. 13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the Lord honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words, 14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord; And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

Isaiah 1: The Wickedness of Judah 2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth! For the Lord has spoken: “I have nourished and brought up children, And they have rebelled against Me; 3 The ox knows its owner And the donkey its master’s crib; But Israel does not know, My people do not consider.” 4 Alas, sinful nation, A people laden with iniquity, A brood of evildoers, Children who are corrupters! They have forsaken the Lord, They have provoked to anger The Holy One of Israel, They have turned away backward. 5 Why should you be stricken again? You will revolt more and more. The whole head is sick, And the whole heart faints. 6 From the sole of the foot even to the head, There is no soundness in it, But wounds and bruises and putrefying sores; They have not been closed or bound up, Or soothed with ointment. 7 Your country is desolate, Your cities are burned with fire; Strangers devour your land in your presence; And it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers. 8 So the daughter of Zion is left as a booth in a vineyard, As a hut in a garden of cucumbers, As a besieged city. 9 Unless the Lord of hosts Had left to us a very small remnant, We would have become like Sodom, We would have been made like Gomorrah. 10 Hear the word of the Lord, You rulers of Sodom; Give ear to the law of our God, You people of Gomorrah: 11 “To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?” Says the Lord. “I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, Or of lambs or goats. 12 “When you come to appear before Me, Who has required this from your hand, To trample My courts? 13 Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting. 14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble to Me, I am weary of bearing them. 15 When you spread out your hands, I will hide My eyes from you; Even though you make many prayers, I will not hear. Your hands are full of blood. 16 “Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; Put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes. Cease to do evil, 17 Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow. 18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the Lord, “Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool. 19 If you are willing and obedient, You shall eat the good of the land; 20 But if you refuse and rebel, You shall be devoured by the sword”; For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

Philippians 2: Unity Through Humility 1 Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, 2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. The Humbled and Exalted Christ 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Numbers 6: The Priestly Blessing 22 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 23 “Speak to Aaron and his sons, saying, ‘This is the way you shall bless the children of Israel. Say to them: 24 “The Lord bless you and keep you; 25 The Lord make His face shine upon you, And be gracious to you; 26 The Lord lift up His countenance upon you, And give you peace.” ’ 27 “So they shall put My name on the children of Israel, and I will bless them.”

Daniel 11: The Northern King’s Blasphemies 29 “At the appointed time he shall return and go toward the south; but it shall not be like the former or the latter. 30 For ships from Cyprus shall come against him; therefore he shall be grieved, and return in rage against the holy covenant, and do damage. “So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation. 32 Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits. 33 And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering. 34 Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue. 35 And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.

2 Corinthians 4: The Light of Christ’s Gospel 1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Cast Down but Unconquered 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. 8 We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed— 10 always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. 11 For we who live are always delivered to death for Jesus’ sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So then death is working in us, but life in you. 13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, “I believed and therefore I spoke,” we also believe and therefore speak, 14 knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you. 15 For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God. Seeing the Invisible 16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

the Peculiarities of Reading Numbers in all it's Beauty

Numbers 11: The People Complain 1 Now when the people complained, it displeased the Lord; for the Lord heard it, and His anger was aroused. So the fire of the Lord burned among them, and consumed some in the outskirts of the camp. 2 Then the people cried out to Moses, and when Moses prayed to the Lord, the fire was quenched. 3 So he called the name of the place Taberah, because the fire of the Lord had burned among them. 4 Now the mixed multitude who were among them yielded to intense craving; so the children of Israel also wept again and said: “Who will give us meat to eat? 5 We remember the fish which we ate freely in Egypt, the cucumbers, the melons, the leeks, the onions, and the garlic; 6 but now our whole being is dried up; there is nothing at all except this manna before our eyes!” 7 Now the manna was like coriander seed, and its color like the color of bdellium. 8 The people went about and gathered it, ground it on millstones or beat it in the mortar, cooked it in pans, and made cakes of it; and its taste was like the taste of pastry prepared with oil. 9 And when the dew fell on the camp in the night, the manna fell on it. 10 Then Moses heard the people weeping throughout their families, everyone at the door of his tent; and the anger of the Lord was greatly aroused; Moses also was displeased. 11 So Moses said to the Lord, “Why have You afflicted Your servant? And why have I not found favor in Your sight, that You have laid the burden of all these people on me? 12 Did I conceive all these people? Did I beget them, that You should say to me, ‘Carry them in your bosom, as a guardian carries a nursing child,’ to the land which You swore to their fathers? 13 Where am I to get meat to give to all these people? For they weep all over me, saying, ‘Give us meat, that we may eat.’ 14 I am not able to bear all these people alone, because the burden is too heavy for me. 15 If You treat me like this, please kill me here and now—if I have found favor in Your sight—and do not let me see my wretchedness!”

Numbers 12: Dissension of Aaron and Miriam 1 Then Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married; for he had married an Ethiopian woman. 2 So they said, “Has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has He not spoken through us also?” And the Lord heard it. 3 (Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth.) 4 Suddenly the Lord said to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, “Come out, you three, to the tabernacle of meeting!” So the three came out. 5 Then the Lord came down in the pillar of cloud and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam. And they both went forward. 6 Then He said, “Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream. 7 Not so with My servant Moses; He is faithful in all My house. 8 I speak with him face to face, Even plainly, and not in dark sayings; And he sees the form of the Lord. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant Moses?” 9 So the anger of the Lord was aroused against them, and He departed. 10 And when the cloud departed from above the tabernacle, suddenly Miriam became leprous, as white as snow. Then Aaron turned toward Miriam, and there she was, a leper. 11 So Aaron said to Moses, “Oh, my lord! Please do not lay this sin on us, in which we have done foolishly and in which we have sinned. 12 Please do not let her be as one dead, whose flesh is half consumed when he comes out of his mother’s womb!” 13 So Moses cried out to the Lord, saying, “Please heal her, O God, I pray!”

Here, let me con you with beautiful words, and then when you aren't looking, I'll rape your children.

1 Peter 1: Praise to God for a living hope 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith – of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire – may result in praise, glory and honour when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

2 Chronicles 16: 7 At that time Hanani the seer came to Asa king of Judah and said to him: “Because you relied on the king of Aram and not on the Lord your God, the army of the king of Aram has escaped from your hand. 8 Were not the Cushites and Libyans a mighty army with great numbers of chariots and horsemen? Yet when you relied on the Lord, he delivered them into your hand. 9 For the eyes of the Lord range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him. You have done a foolish thing, and from now on you will be at war.” 10 Asa was angry with the seer because of this; he was so enraged that he put him in prison. At the same time Asa brutally oppressed some of the people. 11 The events of Asa’s reign, from beginning to end, are written in the book of the kings of Judah and Israel. 12 In the thirty-ninth year of his reign Asa was afflicted with a disease in his feet. Though his disease was severe, even in his illness he did not seek help from the Lord, but only from the physicians. 13 Then in the forty-first year of his reign Asa died and rested with his ancestors.

>>10219 The Book of Job puts an end to any conception of the Abrahamic God's infallibility or omniscience. In that book Job, a good man, is tortured by God at the behest of Satan. Either your "holy" bible's God is evil / bad, or else a moronic fool. God is said, by bible apologists, to have given Job back what was taken... It is impossible to get back your first born child whom you have bonded with. Even if Job got more children and flocks in the long run they are No replacement for the ones that Job initially loved. No one but a damned fool (or devil's advocate) can [in good faith] defend you soykafty "god" nor its behavior.

>>11034 Romans 11: Doxology 33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! 34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” 35 “Who has ever given to God, that God should repay them?” 36 For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.

>>11034 1 Corinthians 2: Spiritual Wisdom 6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” 10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

>>11034 I will try to entertain your convictions and make you understand why you are wrong, as long as you hopefully argue in good faith. You should know that you committed a false dilemma fallacy in your statement by the way. Your first mistake is to judge God, Who is Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent. One of the reasons He entertained satan's proposition is obviously because God already knew how everything will go down. It is communicated implicitely in the book of Job that His children weren't sadly as Holy as their father, Job made sacrifices to God in the hopes that their children were pardonned for their sins and they succumbed in a house while drinking wine together in case you missed that part, perhaps the Book tries to avoid defaming His Children and leaves it to interpretation. Job is also a very useful cautionary tale that aids people in Pain today, why Judge The Almighty if the events that unfolded and were written down Help the wise throughout generations with the Eyes to See and the Mind to Fathom. The devil in this story represents very well how pride can be the downfall of anyone, satan was convinced that the man will rebuke God when he receives in his life curses and boils rather than Blessings and Good Things but was proven wrong much to his shame. It helps us be self-reflective and consider wether we Love God only because we are aware of the Blessings He granted us and wether or not we have enough faith to endure and remain committed to Him no matter how much Affliction we might suffer for a time. It is all in all incomparable, wether we live a full life devoid of suffering or devoid of joy, to the Eternal Glorious Life that awaits us in Heaven. "2 Corinthians 4: 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory" The most important message of Job I think, among many, is that Life doesn't work on a Meritocracy Basis. You might do only Good and suffer regardless, who Am I to know why God allows such fate to some people. Without suffering loneliness, I doubt I would of been as loving as I am today of God. The end result of my Love is having changed a few things in my life that allow me to be a functional member in my own family and in society.

>>11038 Just to let you know, I'm not the guy you are replying to. >One of the reasons He entertained satan's proposition is obviously because God already knew how everything will go down. So, if he knew how everything would happen, why did he test Job anyway? He sees nothing he doesn't expect from him. On one hand he could have let Jobs be as he is, knowing that he is completely faithful; instead he chooses to let him be tortured. It doesn't matter to him, Jobs will slavishly follow him regardless of how he treats him.

>>11034 >>11038 >>11039 you guys will surely know that logical debates on theology and religious lore have never accounted to anything and make zero sense out of mnemohistorical context right?

>>11039 It's one thing to predict it by Omniscience, it is another to see it unfold, His life was only made better and He died regardless. I already quoted 2 Corinthians 4:17 otherswise. How about "2 Corinthians 4:10 always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. 11 For we who live are always delivered to death for Jesus’ sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So then death is working in us, but life in you."

>>10477 I think the early, early Christian theologians argued for a sort of "transcendental determinism" - asserting that, everything ultimately points towards God. There are also those quite radical modern Christians (David Bentley Hart for instance) who reject the idea of "libertarian" free will, asserting that all possible human choices are also ultimately preceded by God (which is the source of Reason), making sense of the Schopenhauer quote >Man cannot will what he wills So for these radical Christians, it would be God itself that is the transcendental source of man's will. However the only logical conclusion of this is that there can't be eternal punishment (because if completely libertarian/arbitrary free will is impossible then all choices must be preceded by, and lead ultimately to, God) and in fact, the early Christians also happened to believe in universal salvation to reflect this. You can see this in Clement (of Alexandria), Origen, Gregory of Nyssa etc. In fact, it is really only after Augustine where the idea of eternal hell and more libertarian idea of freedom begins to develop. So unlike the other poster I wouldn't recommend you start with Augustine if you want to try to understand the Christian conception of freedom, and I believe Gregory of Nyssa would be a better start.

Job 42: Then Job replied to the Lord: 2 “I know that you can do all things; no purpose of yours can be thwarted. 3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’ Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know. 4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak; I will question you, and you shall answer me.’ 5 My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you. 6 Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.”

"Former Texas megachurch pastor [Pastor Robert Preston Morris] indicted in Oklahoma on child sexual abuse charges" https://apnews.com/article/texas-megachurch-pastor-child-sexual-abuse-charges-7780fee17c2f670f1ef34a8d72bc6a14

>>11118 Ezekiel 36: Israel’s Restoration Assured 16 Again the word of the Lord came to me: 17 “Son of man, when the people of Israel were living in their own land, they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman’s monthly uncleanness in my sight. 18 So I poured out my wrath on them because they had shed blood in the land and because they had defiled it with their idols. 19 I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions. 20 And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, ‘These are the Lord’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.’ 21 I had concern for my holy name, which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.

Deuteronomy 27: 14 “And the Levites shall speak with a loud voice and say to all the men of Israel: 15 ‘Cursed is the one who makes a carved or molded image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.’ “And all the people shall answer and say, ‘Amen!’ 16 ‘Cursed is the one who treats his father or his mother with contempt.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ 17 ‘Cursed is the one who moves his neighbor’s landmark.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ 18 ‘Cursed is the one who makes the blind to wander off the road.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ 19 ‘Cursed is the one who perverts the justice due the stranger, the fatherless, and widow.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ 20 ‘Cursed is the one who lies with his father’s wife, because he has uncovered his father’s bed.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ 21 ‘Cursed is the one who lies with any kind of animal.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ 22 ‘Cursed is the one who lies with his sister, the daughter of his father or the daughter of his mother.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ 23 ‘Cursed is the one who lies with his mother-in-law.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ 24 ‘Cursed is the one who attacks his neighbor secretly.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ 25 ‘Cursed is the one who takes a bribe to slay an innocent person.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ 26 ‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

Romans 14: The Law of Liberty 1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. 5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.” 12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.

Job 21: 22 “Can anyone teach knowledge to God, since he judges even the highest? 23 One person dies in full vigor, completely secure and at ease, 24 well nourished in body,[b] bones rich with marrow. 25 Another dies in bitterness of soul, never having enjoyed anything good. 26 Side by side they lie in the dust, and worms cover them both.

Judges 10:14 “Go and cry out to the gods which you have chosen; let them deliver you in your time of distress.”

Psalm 22: The Suffering, Praise, and Posterity of the Messiah To the Chief Musician. Set to “The Deer of the Dawn.” A Psalm of David. 1 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? Why are You so far from helping Me, And from the words of My groaning? 2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear; And in the night season, and am not silent. 3 But You are holy, Enthroned in the praises of Israel. 4 Our fathers trusted in You; They trusted, and You delivered them. 5 They cried to You, and were delivered; They trusted in You, and were not ashamed. 6 But I am a worm, and no man; A reproach of men, and despised by the people. 7 All those who see Me ridicule Me; They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, 8 “He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him; Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!” 9 But You are He who took Me out of the womb; You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts. 10 I was cast upon You from birth. From My mother’s womb You have been My God. 11 Be not far from Me, For trouble is near; For there is none to help. 12 Many bulls have surrounded Me; Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled Me. 13 They gape at Me with their mouths, Like a raging and roaring lion. 14 I am poured out like water, And all My bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It has melted within Me. 15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And My tongue clings to My jaws; You have brought Me to the dust of death. 16 For dogs have surrounded Me; The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet; 17 I can count all My bones. They look and stare at Me. 18 They divide My garments among them, And for My clothing they cast lots. 19 But You, O Lord, do not be far from Me; O My Strength, hasten to help Me! 20 Deliver Me from the sword, My precious life from the power of the dog. 21 Save Me from the lion’s mouth And from the horns of the wild oxen! You have answered Me. 22 I will declare Your name to My brethren; In the midst of the assembly I will praise You. 23 You who fear the Lord, praise Him! All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him, And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel! 24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Nor has He hidden His face from Him; But when He cried to Him, He heard. 25 My praise shall be of You in the great assembly; I will pay My vows before those who fear Him. 26 The poor shall eat and be satisfied; Those who seek Him will praise the Lord. Let your heart live forever! 27 All the ends of the world Shall remember and turn to the Lord, And all the families of the nations Shall worship before You. 28 For the kingdom is the Lord’s, And He rules over the nations. 29 All the prosperous of the earth Shall eat and worship; All those who go down to the dust Shall bow before Him, Even he who cannot keep himself alive. 30 A posterity shall serve Him. It will be recounted of the Lord to the next generation, 31 They will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will be born, That He has done this.

Proverbs 13: ²⁰Whoever walks with the wise becomes wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm.

Genesis 6: Wickedness in the World 1 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal[b]; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown. 5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Matthew 12: The Unpardonable Sin 31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

1 Samuel 12: 20 Then Samuel said to the people, “Do not fear. You have done all this wickedness; yet do not turn aside from following the Lord, but serve the Lord with all your heart. 21 And do not turn aside; for then you would go after empty things which cannot profit or deliver, for they are nothing. 22 For the Lord will not forsake His people, for His great name’s sake, because it has pleased the Lord to make you His people. 23 Moreover, as for me, far be it from me that I should sin against the Lord in ceasing to pray for you; but I will teach you the good and the right way. 24 Only fear the Lord, and serve Him in truth with all your heart; for consider what great things He has done for you. 25 But if you still do wickedly, you shall be swept away, both you and your king.”

Psalm 128: A song of ascents. 1 Blessed are all who fear the Lord, who walk in obedience to him. 2 You will eat the fruit of your labor; blessings and prosperity will be yours. 3 Your wife will be like a fruitful vine within your house; your children will be like olive shoots around your table. 4 Yes, this will be the blessing for the man who fears the Lord. 5 May the Lord bless you from Zion; may you see the prosperity of Jerusalem all the days of your life. 6 May you live to see your children’s children— peace be on Israel.

James 4: 17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

2 Samuel 7: 12 “When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men. 15 But My mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever.”

Matthew 4: 4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

2 Kings 17: 33 They feared the Lord, yet served their own gods—according to the rituals of the nations from among whom they were carried away. 34 To this day they continue practicing the former rituals; they do not fear the Lord, nor do they follow their statutes or their ordinances, or the law and commandment which the Lord had commanded the children of Jacob, whom He named Israel, 35 with whom the Lord had made a covenant and charged them, saying: “You shall not fear other gods, nor bow down to them nor serve them nor sacrifice to them; 36 but the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, Him you shall worship, and to Him you shall offer sacrifice. 37 And the statutes, the ordinances, the law, and the commandment which He wrote for you, you shall be careful to observe forever; you shall not fear other gods. 38 And the covenant that I have made with you, you shall not forget, nor shall you fear other gods. 39 But the Lord your God you shall fear; and He will deliver you from the hand of all your enemies.” 40 However they did not obey, but they followed their former rituals. 41 So these nations feared the Lord, yet served their carved images; also their children and their children’s children have continued doing as their fathers did, even to this day.

2 Chronicles 32: 24 In those days Hezekiah became ill and was at the point of death. He prayed to the Lord, who answered him and gave him a miraculous sign. 25 But Hezekiah’s heart was proud and he did not respond to the kindness shown him; therefore the Lord’s wrath was on him and on Judah and Jerusalem. 26 Then Hezekiah repented of the pride of his heart, as did the people of Jerusalem; therefore the Lord’s wrath did not come on them during the days of Hezekiah. 27 Hezekiah had very great wealth and honor, and he made treasuries for his silver and gold and for his precious stones, spices, shields and all kinds of valuables. 28 He also made buildings to store the harvest of grain, new wine and olive oil; and he made stalls for various kinds of cattle, and pens for the flocks. 29 He built villages and acquired great numbers of flocks and herds, for God had given him very great riches. 30 It was Hezekiah who blocked the upper outlet of the Gihon spring and channeled the water down to the west side of the City of David. He succeeded in everything he undertook. 31 But when envoys were sent by the rulers of Babylon to ask him about the miraculous sign that had occurred in the land, God left him to test him and to know everything that was in his heart. - 2 Kings 20: 12 At that time Berodach-Baladan the son of Baladan, king of Babylon, sent letters and a present to Hezekiah, for he heard that Hezekiah had been sick. 13 And Hezekiah was attentive to them, and showed them all the house of his treasures—the silver and gold, the spices and precious ointment, and all his armory—all that was found among his treasures. There was nothing in his house or in all his dominion that Hezekiah did not show them. 14 Then Isaiah the prophet went to King Hezekiah, and said to him, “What did these men say, and from where did they come to you?” So Hezekiah said, “They came from a far country, from Babylon.” 15 And he said, “What have they seen in your house?” So Hezekiah answered, “They have seen all that is in my house; there is nothing among my treasures that I have not shown them.” 16 Then Isaiah said to Hezekiah, “Hear the word of the Lord: 17 ‘Behold, the days are coming when all that is in your house, and what your fathers have accumulated until this day, shall be carried to Babylon; nothing shall be left,’ says the Lord. 18 ‘And they shall take away some of your sons who will descend from you, whom you will beget; and they shall be eunuchs in the palace of the king of Babylon.’ ” 19 So Hezekiah said to Isaiah, “The word of the Lord which you have spoken is good!” For he said, “Will there not be peace and truth at least in my days?”

Psalm 139: 23 Search me, God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. 24 See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

Numbers 23: 19 “God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

Isaiah 42: Israel’s Obstinate Disobedience 21 The Lord is well pleased for His righteousness’ sake; He will exalt the law and make it honorable. 22 But this is a people robbed and plundered; All of them are snared in holes, And they are hidden in prison houses; They are for prey, and no one delivers; For plunder, and no one says, “Restore!” 23 Who among you will give ear to this? Who will listen and hear for the time to come? 24 Who gave Jacob for plunder, and Israel to the robbers? Was it not the Lord, He against whom we have sinned? For they would not walk in His ways, Nor were they obedient to His law. 25 Therefore He has poured on him the fury of His anger And the strength of battle; It has set him on fire all around, Yet he did not know; And it burned him, Yet he did not take it to heart.

John 12: 37 But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, 38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke: “Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” 39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again: 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.” 41 These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him. Walk in the Light 42 Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. 44 Then Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. 46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”

Romans 5: Faith Triumphs in Trouble 1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 Timothy 6: 3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Aka shut the fuarrrk up for once

Ezekiel 8: 16 He then brought me into the inner court of the house of the Lord, and there at the entrance to the temple, between the portico and the altar, were about twenty-five men. With their backs toward the temple of the Lord and their faces toward the east, they were bowing down to the sun in the east. 17 He said to me, “Have you seen this, son of man? Is it a trivial matter for the people of Judah to do the detestable things they are doing here? Must they also fill the land with violence and continually arouse my anger? Look at them putting the branch to their nose! 18 Therefore I will deal with them in anger; I will not look on them with pity or spare them. Although they shout in my ears, I will not listen to them.”

Ecclesiastes 1: Everything Is Meaningless 1 The words of the Teacher, son of David, king in Jerusalem: 2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!” says the Teacher. “Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless.” 3 What do people gain from all their labors at which they toil under the sun? 4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever. 5 The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. 6 The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. 7 All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. 8 All things are wearisome, more than one can say. The eye never has enough of seeing, nor the ear its fill of hearing. 9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. 10 Is there anything of which one can say, “Look! This is something new”? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time. 11 No one remembers the former generations, and even those yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow them. Wisdom Is Meaningless 12 I, the Teacher, was king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 I applied my mind to study and to explore by wisdom all that is done under the heavens. What a heavy burden God has laid on mankind! 14 I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind. 15 What is crooked cannot be straightened; what is lacking cannot be counted. 16 I said to myself, “Look, I have increased in wisdom more than anyone who has ruled over Jerusalem before me; I have experienced much of wisdom and knowledge.” 17 Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind. 18 For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief.

John 8: Abraham’s Seed and Satan’s 37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.” 39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.” Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

2 Peter 2: Destructive Doctrines 1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber. Doom of False Teachers 4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord. Depravity of False Teachers 12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet. 17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. Deceptions of False Teachers 18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

>>11570 The christbot is nothing if not determined, it's been months of blindly posting without addressing any of the replies

>>11631 Matthew 10: 12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

What the hell are the jannies doing?

>>11638 Luke 10: 16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.” Hebrews 12: 25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven,

>>11638 Believing in believing. Seeing what must be seen, unseeing what must not be seen. Reciting soothing lullabies. Forgetting what must be forgotten.

>>11638 Jannies help someone isn't posting da usual slop!!! my lainslop must be purple but this slop is ORANGE!!! >>11643 please never stop posting christlain

Psalm 121: A Song of Ascents. 1 I will lift up my eyes to the hills— From whence comes my help? 2 My help comes from the Lord, Who made heaven and earth. 3 He will not allow your foot to be moved; He who keeps you will not slumber. 4 Behold, He who keeps Israel Shall neither slumber nor sleep. 5 The Lord is your keeper; The Lord is your shade at your right hand. 6 The sun shall not strike you by day, Nor the moon by night. 7 The Lord shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul. 8 The Lord shall preserve your going out and your coming in From this time forth, and even forevermore.

1 Timothy 2: Pray for All Men 1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. Men and Women in the Church 8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; 9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, 10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. 11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

How do I hide threads? Threads. Threads!

Gimme some Ecclesiastes, Christlain.

John 3: 27 John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven. 28 You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent before Him.’ 29 He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. 33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. 34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. 35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

James 3: 2 For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body. 3 Indeed, we put bits in horses’ mouths that they may obey us, and we turn their whole body. 4 Look also at ships: although they are so large and are driven by fierce winds, they are turned by a very small rudder wherever the pilot desires. 5 Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things. See how great a forest a little fire kindles! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. 7 For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and creature of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by mankind. 8 But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? 12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh.

Psalm 86: Prayer for Mercy, with Meditation on the Excellencies of the Lord A Prayer of David. 1 Bow down Your ear, O Lord, hear me; For I am poor and needy. 2 Preserve my life, for I am holy; You are my God; Save Your servant who trusts in You! 3 Be merciful to me, O Lord, For I cry to You all day long. 4 Rejoice the soul of Your servant, For to You, O Lord, I lift up my soul. 5 For You, Lord, are good, and ready to forgive, And abundant in mercy to all those who call upon You. 6 Give ear, O Lord, to my prayer; And attend to the voice of my supplications. 7 In the day of my trouble I will call upon You, For You will answer me. 8 Among the gods there is none like You, O Lord; Nor are there any works like Your works. 9 All nations whom You have made Shall come and worship before You, O Lord, And shall glorify Your name. 10 For You are great, and do wondrous things; You alone are God. 11 Teach me Your way, O Lord; I will walk in Your truth; Unite my heart to fear Your name. 12 I will praise You, O Lord my God, with all my heart, And I will glorify Your name forevermore. 13 For great is Your mercy toward me, And You have delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol. 14 O God, the proud have risen against me, And a mob of violent men have sought my life, And have not set You before them. 15 But You, O Lord, are a God full of compassion, and gracious, Longsuffering and abundant in mercy and truth. 16 Oh, turn to me, and have mercy on me! Give Your strength to Your servant, And save the son of Your maidservant. 17 Show me a sign for good, That those who hate me may see it and be ashamed, Because You, Lord, have helped me and comforted me.

Luke 12: The Parable of the Rich Fool 13 Then one from the crowd said to Him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.” 14 But He said to him, “Man, who made Me a judge or an arbitrator over you?” 15 And He said to them, “Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one’s life does not consist in the abundance of the things he possesses.” 16 Then He spoke a parable to them, saying: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded plentifully. 17 And he thought within himself, saying, ‘What shall I do, since I have no room to store my crops?’ 18 So he said, ‘I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build greater, and there I will store all my crops and my goods. 19 And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years; take your ease; eat, drink, and be merry.” ’ 20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul will be required of you; then whose will those things be which you have provided?’ 21 “So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.”

>>11731 hello lain I have been trying to see if I can be convinced of God and Christ, so far fruitlessly. I have been praying for some sort of sign (which seems a very common thing to ask for in old and new testaments which I've been working through), but have been met with nothing, and am nearing the end of my credulity. Have you any advice ? Even if I might accept the possibility of the resurrection and other early miracles, I have the strong tendency to suppose that if endlessly powerful God who resurrected Christ and performed all the miracles and created the world and created me, and is personally interested in my life (and directly and regularly involved in it and doubtless, so say the people at the church I've been visiting, brought me to consider these questions), and who created a blind man simply so that he could be made to see as proof of Christ's divinity, while also giving quite a few other signs to various people often in response to their requests for them, if this God exists, then I would hope that he could furnish some small but improbable events to convince me. I am not asking for all my enemies to be vaporized, just some small sign that will not meaningfully effect my life one way or another in any material way.

>>11732 Nta but to speak from my own experience I think that just praying in your head during downtime throughout the day helps you feel more of a connection and see little miracles occur. If you're the type to do a daily mantra I would work something about feeling God's love in there too.

>>11732 I personally lift up my head towards Christ because I am sufferring every passing day although the reason why would commonly sound pathetic to most people, I'm somewhat ashamed myself and feel guilty because I'm otherwise in an economical good state, perfectly healthy and have a large family and I am thankful but I do not give enough Thanksgiving for this blessing, nor do I feel thankful as much as I logically should. Out of the wisdom that was granted to me by God, can clearly see that there is no other way to turn to but God's. I don't personally seek miracles and don't really understand their purpose, My understanding of God is probably moreso logical than it is by credence, "Just because people told me". As I am Faithful, Doubt/Unbelief in God is foreign and hard to understand for me. I am able to see plainly that everything was created by Him, from every physical part of our world to concepts as complex as Morality and Logic. There is no Morality more perfect than Christian Morality in my eyes, and it seems to track as the Creator of the world would no doubt establish the perfect law. It is made clear throughout the Bible's stories that miracles in themselves don't account for much value in the eyes of those who are unbelievers or even just doubtless. Notice something "Improbable" or even "Impossible" and you'll attempt to explain it rationally with 1000 different theories. If your heart isn't beset on Jesus Christ through Love and Faith then even attaining this miracle you pray for *probably* won't be of value, not to you, not to God's Kingdom. Just like the Jews who escaped from slavery, watched their captors suffer plagues from safety, walked through a parting sea and built a Golden Calf in the end. There are exceptions I suppose like in the book of Daniel when the King noticed the 3 servants survive the furnace unscathed and unbridled by a single ember and Praised the Lord our God, but he praised God as a member of a Polytheistic Pantheon however. No matter how many Miracles and Healing Jesus Christ made, the people who were witnesses to His doings Crucified Him, In John 3, Nicodemus, A High ranking priest was fully aware of Jesus' Godhood, and yet he came to the Son on Man at night in secrecy to admit it. "John 3: 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God." If you are conceited in your unbelief then even the dead risen back to life won't make you believe, this is expressed plainly in Luke 16:31 and explicitelly makes the parallel between Christ's own Resurrection. To believe in God is a bit deeper than just stating "I was baptized, I'm christian I guess" although I wont dare judge someone for being simple minded, The Faith of Someone who is but a babe in the Faith is still pure and sincere and precious and welcome. If you desire to understand God logically then Romans 1:18-25 is what I can lead you to.

Philippians 3: 7 But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Following Paul’s Example 15 All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained. 17 Join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and just as you have us as a model, keep your eyes on those who live as we do. 18 For, as I have often told you before and now tell you again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body

Jeremiah 17: Judah’s Sin and Punishment 1 “The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond it is engraved On the tablet of their heart, And on the horns of your altars, 2 While their children remember Their altars and their wooden images By the green trees on the high hills. 3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, And your high places of sin within all your borders. 4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of your heritage which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger which shall burn forever.” 5 Thus says the Lord: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the Lord. 6 For he shall be like a shrub in the desert, And shall not see when good comes, But shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, In a salt land which is not inhabited. 7 “Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, And whose hope is the Lord. 8 For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, Which spreads out its roots by the river, And will not fear when heat comes; But its leaf will be green, And will not be anxious in the year of drought, Nor will cease from yielding fruit. 9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? 10 I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings. 11 “As a partridge that broods but does not hatch, So is he who gets riches, but not by right; It will leave him in the midst of his days, And at his end he will be a fool.” 12 A glorious high throne from the beginning Is the place of our sanctuary. 13 O Lord, the hope of Israel, All who forsake You shall be ashamed. “Those who depart from Me Shall be written in the earth, Because they have forsaken the Lord, The fountain of living waters.”

Psalm 144: A Psalm of David. 1 Blessed be the Lord my Rock, Who trains my hands for war, And my fingers for battle— 2 My lovingkindness and my fortress, My high tower and my deliverer, My shield and the One in whom I take refuge, Who subdues my people under me. 3 Lord, what is man, that You take knowledge of him? Or the son of man, that You are mindful of him? 4 Man is like a breath; His days are like a passing shadow. 5 Bow down Your heavens, O Lord, and come down; Touch the mountains, and they shall smoke. 6 Flash forth lightning and scatter them; Shoot out Your arrows and destroy them. 7 Stretch out Your hand from above; Rescue me and deliver me out of great waters, From the hand of foreigners, 8 Whose mouth speaks lying words, And whose right hand is a right hand of falsehood. 9 I will sing a new song to You, O God; On a harp of ten strings I will sing praises to You, 10 The One who gives salvation to kings, Who delivers David His servant From the deadly sword. 11 Rescue me and deliver me from the hand of foreigners, Whose mouth speaks lying words, And whose right hand is a right hand of falsehood— 12 That our sons may be as plants grown up in their youth; That our daughters may be as pillars, Sculptured in palace style; 13 That our barns may be full, Supplying all kinds of produce; That our sheep may bring forth thousands And ten thousands in our fields; 14 That our oxen may be well laden; That there be no breaking in or going out; That there be no outcry in our streets. 15 Happy are the people who are in such a state; Happy are the people whose God is the Lord!

>>11734 Miracles, which I'll take to include perceived direct messages, seem to come up a lot. Paul/Saul gets a vision and that's what triggers his conversion, most of Christ's followers probably started following because of some sort of miracle or hearing about a miracles (and grew in conviction because of the further miracles which they kept witnessing), and Christ went on performing them time and again. When Christ returns: John 20: >24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. >25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. >26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. >27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. >28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. >29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. >30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: >31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. while this is somewhat chiding to the apostle who asks to see closely evidence, Christ does indulge his request There are certainly plenty of other cases. Yes people keep failing one way or another, but after all, they say we are all sinners, while that is a fault its also just the inherent quality of humanity. Nevertheless miracles and compelling evidence for them, seem like an utterly reasonable thing to ask for, and a biblically defensible one at that. Perhaps one merely has to wait and if the Holy Ghost decides to make you a believer then that is that. Nevertheless, Seek, I was told, and I shall find. I seek and I have not found.

>>11738 I wish I had a Soulmate. I'm tired of feeling so alone and constantly suffer, I'm tired

>>11739 Be very careful what you wish for buddy. My best friend is the closest i ever had to a soulmate, he died early this year, this left me with a huge hole in my heart and distrust fate/god/life etc in way that was worse than before. Hope things work out for you tho.

1 John 4: 4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. 6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. 7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. [...] 20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

Mark 4: 14 The sower sows the word. 15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. 16 These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. 18 Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, 19 and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”

Proverbs 20: Wine Is a Mocker 1 Wine is a mocker, Strong drink is a brawler, And whoever is led astray by it is not wise - 11 Even a child is known by his deeds, Whether what he does is pure and right. 12 The hearing ear and the seeing eye, The Lord has made them both. - 22 Do not say, “I will recompense evil”; Wait for the Lord, and He will save you. 23 Diverse weights are an abomination to the Lord, And dishonest scales are not good. 24 A man’s steps are of the Lord; How then can a man understand his own way?

Isaiah 40: 27 Why do you say, O Jacob, And speak, O Israel: “My way is hidden from the Lord, And my just claim is passed over by my God”? 28 Have you not known? Have you not heard? The everlasting God, the Lord, The Creator of the ends of the earth, Neither faints nor is weary. His understanding is unsearchable. 29 He gives power to the weak, And to those who have no might He increases strength. 30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, And the young men shall utterly fall, 31 But those who wait on the Lord Shall renew their strength; They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint.

>you are not far from the kingdom of god >the kingdom is within you >opening scene for the Christian gnostic life

>>10219 Sounds like OP should watch Haibane Renmei to boost own beliefs...

Ezekiel 33: The Watchman and His Message 1 Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, speak to the children of your people, and say to them: ‘When I bring the sword upon a land, and the people of the land take a man from their territory and make him their watchman, 3 when he sees the sword coming upon the land, if he blows the trumpet and warns the people, 4 then whoever hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, if the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be on his own head. 5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, but did not take warning; his blood shall be upon himself. But he who takes warning will save his life. 6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman’s hand.’ 7 “So you, son of man: I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore you shall hear a word from My mouth and warn them for Me. 8 When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you shall surely die!’ and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 9 Nevertheless if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. 10 “Therefore you, O son of man, say to the house of Israel: ‘Thus you say, “If our transgressions and our sins lie upon us, and we pine away in them, how can we then live?” ’ 11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’ The Fairness of God’s Judgment 12 “Therefore you, O son of man, say to the children of your people: ‘The righteousness of the righteous man shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall because of it in the day that he turns from his wickedness; nor shall the righteous be able to live because of his righteousness in the day that he sins.’ 13 When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. 14 Again, when I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ if he turns from his sin and does what is lawful and right, 15 if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has stolen, and walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 16 None of his sins which he has committed shall be remembered against him; he has done what is lawful and right; he shall surely live. 17 “Yet the children of your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ But it is their way which is not fair! 18 When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he shall die because of it. 19 But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and does what is lawful and right, he shall live because of it. 20 Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, I will judge every one of you according to his own ways.”

>>12051 >>12049 John 3: The New Birth 1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” 9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Ephesians 4: The New Man 17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

>>12065 Thank you, lainon. Pray for me. I've been depressed. God has blessed me beyond all measure, but my flesh is weak, and my heart is weary. These winter days cast a shadow over me. The resurrection is just ahead, lainon. A little strength each day will bring us there, and if we sleep before he returns, our souls will rest with him until we are raised. O Lord, have mercy me and on all who read this, and soften their hearts that they might turn to you and live.

Oy, guys... Listen, my child, a man who loses his patience loses twice. First the argument then his dignity. So breathe. Eat something. No one ever solved a crisis on an empty stomach, eh. Remember this: A kind word costs nothing... but carries interest for generations. So go. Do one small good thing today. The Almighty keeps very careful books.

Matthew 25: The Sheep and the Goats 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ 44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

This is a great thread because it elaborates on OPs opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf. I'm glad the mods aren't deleting it because it's not forcing an inorganic thread at all.

>>12116 As another christian lain, as I am certain you are as well, I entirely concur! I appreciate being given a selection of verses to reflect on while listening to nice music that the poster also provides for a few minutes! I am glad you agree that this is a useful, dare I say even beautiful & true, thread.

Not OP, but considering what day it is Psalm 22 1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, from the words of my groaning? 2 O my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer, and by night, but I find no rest. 3 Yet you are holy, enthroned on the praises[a] of Israel. 4 In you our fathers trusted; they trusted, and you delivered them. 5 To you they cried and were rescued; in you they trusted and were not put to shame. 6 But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by mankind and despised by the people. 7 All who see me mock me; they make mouths at me; they wag their heads; 8 “He trusts in the Lord; let him deliver him; let him rescue him, for he delights in him!” 9 Yet you are he who took me from the womb; you made me trust you at my mother's breasts. 10 On you was I cast from my birth, and from my mother's womb you have been my God. 11 Be not far from me, for trouble is near, and there is none to help. 12 Many bulls encompass me; strong bulls of Bashan surround me; 13 they open wide their mouths at me, like a ravening and roaring lion. 14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax; it is melted within my breast; 15 my strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to my jaws; you lay me in the dust of death. 16 For dogs encompass me; a company of evildoers encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet[b]— 17 I can count all my bones— they stare and gloat over me; 18 they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots. 19 But you, O Lord, do not be far off! O you my help, come quickly to my aid! 20 Deliver my soul from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dog! 21 Save me from the mouth of the lion! You have rescued[c] me from the horns of the wild oxen! 22 I will tell of your name to my brothers; in the midst of the congregation I will praise you: 23 You who fear the Lord, praise him! All you offspring of Jacob, glorify him, and stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel! 24 For he has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted, and he has not hidden his face from him, but has heard, when he cried to him. 25 From you comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will perform before those who fear him. 26 The afflicted[d] shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek him shall praise the Lord! May your hearts live forever! 27 All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations shall worship before you. 28 For kingship belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations. 29 All the prosperous of the earth eat and worship; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, even the one who could not keep himself alive. 30 Posterity shall serve him; it shall be told of the Lord to the coming generation; 31 they shall come and proclaim his righteousness to a people yet unborn, that he has done it.

Happy Easter everyone! He is not here but is risen!

Bring flow'rs of the rarest, bring flow'rs of the fairest, From garden and woodland, and hillside and vale; Our full hearts are swelling, our glad voices telling The praise of the loveliest Rose of the dale. O Mary! we crown thee with blossoms today, Queen of the Angels, Queen of the May, O Mary, we crown thee with blossoms today, Queen of the Angels, Queen of the May. Our voices ascending, in harmony blending, Oh! thus may our hearts turn, dear Mother, to thee; Oh! thus shall we prove thee how truly we love thee, How dark, without Mary, life's journey would be. O Virgin most tender, our homage we render, Thy love and protection, sweet Mother, to win; In danger defend us, in sorrow befriend us, And shield our fond hearts from contagion of sin. Of Mothers the dearest, oh, wilt thou be nearest, When life with temptation is darkly replete? Forsake us, oh never! our hearts, be they ever As pure as the lilies we lay at thy feet.

John 8: The Truth Shall Make You Free 31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” 33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?” 34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

>>12136 How is He not here if all things are made through Him and by Him?

>>12202 why seek the living among the dead ?

I'm tired, I should end it, I don't want to keep feeling this way every day, I'm tired

>>12208 In times of despair, I think back to a story by Herman Hesse. It's at the end of his book The Glass Bead game, and it tells the story of an early christian anchorite who sets off into the desert. I won't tell you much more than that, but he, too, struggles with his mission and finds renewal by the end. Every serious fathful deals with the dark night of the soul at some point. Even St. Paul talks about wanting to not exist at times, to say nothing of Jesus in the garden. You are not alone in your suffering, & you will find comfort.

Reading about the glass bead game on lainchan of all places feels weird. Are you in my walls?

Job 31: Job Defends His Righteousness 1 “I have made a covenant with my eyes; Why then should I look upon a young woman? 2 For what is the allotment of God from above, And the inheritance of the Almighty from on high? 3 Is it not destruction for the wicked, And disaster for the workers of iniquity? 4 Does He not see my ways, And count all my steps? 5 “If I have walked with falsehood, Or if my foot has hastened to deceit, 6 Let me be weighed on honest scales, That God may know my integrity. 7 If my step has turned from the way, Or my heart walked after my eyes, Or if any spot adheres to my hands, 8 Then let me sow, and another eat; Yes, let my harvest be rooted out. 9 “If my heart has been enticed by a woman, Or if I have lurked at my neighbor’s door, 10 Then let my wife grind for another, And let others bow down over her. 11 For that would be wickedness; Yes, it would be iniquity deserving of judgment. 12 For that would be a fire that consumes to destruction, And would root out all my increase.