Metroidvanias....crazy

Whats the stuff yall like in MetroidVanias? I love alot of them but there are some stuff that i dont like. What do yall like in the Metroidvanias yall play?

inb4 (USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST, You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf.)(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST. Rule 4. You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf. Rule 6. Do not whine and cry about 8chan, lainchan.jp, "quality", "invasions", "newfags", mods, bans, or kalyx outside of /q/. lmao)

How exactly do you define Metroidvania? Because I loved Metroid on the NES and I loved Castlevania on the NES, but I don't really see how they're related other than they're side scrollers.

I prefer Metroid-likes. To be perfectly honest, the Castlevania series jumped off a cliff when it tried to copy Super Metroid and toss in a bunch of lame RPG-style grinding mechanics. Metroid-likes are best without that garbage. When something calls itself a "Metroidvania" (as if that's even a real genre), that's usually a big red flag to me that the developer doesn't understand what Metroid did right.

I like: >the focus on exploration >ability to grind (kinda) >knowledge is as valuable as items >tons of secrets (usually) >above average ability to sequence break because the world is mostly gated by the abilities you unlock rather than keys Pretty dumb to call them metroidvanias though, given that they're mechanically just action-adventure games like Zelda just with a side-scrolling camera. In Ocarina you can technically get all the items without completing any of the dungeons because the items are what enables you to access new areas, not the key items you get by beating the dungeon. And PLEASE don't call them "zeldalikes". The "______like" nomenclature is so lazy and clutters the memespace.

>>7923 The obvious difference between Metroid and Zelda is that one is a platforming series with jumping the focus while the other features very little jumping. But there is also a more subtle but important technical distinction between Metroid and Zelda. Whereas Zelda (depending on the game in the series) tends to focus on usable items as keys to progression, Metroid focuses on innate action abilities as progression tools.

>Whats the stuff yall like in MetroidVanias? Sequence breaking. https://www.metroid2002.com/ is a good resource to start with >>7922 Metroid games are just as broken as post-SotN castlevanias, the only difference is that those castlevanias can be broken by grinding and you don't have to be clever about it. >When something calls itself a "Metroidvania" (as if that's even a real genre), that's usually a big red flag to me that the developer doesn't understand what Metroid did right. Ironically enough the things that Metroid's developers did wrong have had a more remarkable impact than what they did right, same as with 1st gen pokemon people nowadays enjoy more their glitches than the gameplay mechanics that the devs intended. IMO one of the best ways to have fun with metroidvanias today is to play them in the hardest mode or install a romhack if there isn't one available in order for the game to be almost impossible to beat the intended way and then pull up tricks to break your way into the game. If not for exploiting them I've had more fun with exploration games without metroidvania mechanics like The great cave offensive from Kirby super star and Umihara Kawase.

>>7924 That is incorrect in multiple ways. >Platforming is what distinguishes the genres Maybe you just struggled with the platforming in Metroid or SotN but not Ocarina or Awakening so it stood out to you more. To me that was never more than a triviality in any of the games, just like walking left or right. You're definitely moving vertically a comparable amount in all of them. Even LttP once you realize all those stairs and ledges and mountains rendered on a 2D plane actually exist in 3D space. >Zelda focuses on usable items to progress through the game but Metroid focuses on innate abilities ...have you actually played any of the mainline Metroid or Zelda games? Come to think of it, the only case where you utilize your innate abilities to progress is in the Zelda series, BotW and its DLC. So you were even wrong about how you were wrong. No, the most coherent definition of action-adventure is a game focused on exploring a large map without discrete levels where progress is mostly gated through unlockable abilities rather than key items or events. I didn't come up with this or anything, it's well-established. Feel free to try to find a game in this genre that's not adequately described this way. Remember, metroidvania and zeldalike are just terms made up by dumbass games journalists to describe 2D sidescrolling action-adventure games. Don't be like them.

>>7926 >the most coherent definition of action-adventure is a game focused on exploring a large map without discrete levels where progress is mostly gated through unlockable abilities rather than key items or events What's the difference between key items and abilities? I thought an ability was just a key item combined with a power-up, almost all key items allow the use of an ability, a literal key gives you the ability to open a door, also isn't getting an ability an event? I think, taking from your definition, a better way to define action-adventure is: a game focused on exploring a large map with interconnected levels or areas that is controlled with real time input and progression can be made by finding items (that might give you abilities) or defeating enemies, allowing the player to explore other areas.

>>7926 >spending 99% of the game jumping from platform to platform doesn't count if it's not difficult This is a very strange deflection you're attempting here anon. >Don't be like them. Oh don't worry, I'm not. I don't consider "Metroidvania" to be an actual genre, since practically nothing that is claimed to be one actually has the defining characteristics of the post-Symphony of the Night Castlevania games. Ergo, if Castlevania didn't add anything substantive to the formula then why is it included in the descriptor? Metroid's contribution to this particular sub-genre of platformer is significant and unique enough to deserve its own label, however. If you don't wanna use "Metroid" in the name that's fine, but it's undeniably a rather different type of game than Zelda. Perhaps ability progression platformer (APP)?

>>7926 >action-adventure is a game focused on exploring a large map without discrete levels where progress is mostly gated through unlockable abilities rather than key items or events. I didn't come up with this or anything No you definitely made it up, because most games people describe as action-adventure do not focus on unlockable abilities, they do in fact focus on key items or events.

>>7927 >What's the difference between key items and abilities? Great question. Key items are items with no function outside of opening a door and are necessary to progress the game e.g. the three stones you get from the first three dungeons in Ocarina are key items because all they do is allow you to unlock the door to the master sword. Conversely, abilities are used in a myriad of ways e.g. you need to unlock the ability to shoot missiles in Metroid which are necessary to open certain doors, but are generally used for combat. I'm sure you must have noticed that key items and items are kept separate in most inventory UIs. A "key ability" would be something like an upgrade that turns your arm into a key that opens specific progress blocking doors and which cannot be used in combat. >>7928 Not deflecting, merely offering a theory as to why someone might say Metroid or Zelda are platformers when the focus is clearly not platforming. It's like saying Half Life or Deus Ex are platformers because there are some parts where you have to navigate platforms. You know, action-adventure is an awfully vague genre name which is precisely why so many people apply it to everything. "Durrhurr it's any game where you go on an adventure that has exciting action! You know, like Nethack or Final Fantasy 3!" I like where your heads at, but there are two problems with your proposal: 1) these aren't platformers & 2) APP might lead to confusion more than other acronyms (did you guys hear about that new APP that's coming out?) Because the focus on these games is really exploration and not platforming, I propose "ability-gated explorer" as opposed to other subgenres of the explorer game genre such as iterative explorers and open-world explorers. >>7929 Sorry bro, I don't take the opinions of games journalists seriously. Given that you do, your opinion can also be safely disregarded especially considering you haven't produced a coherent definition. You're just arguing to argue. Please take your L before you hurt yourself.

>>7923 >they're mechanically just action-adventure games like Zelda just with a side-scrolling camera. Is Zelda II a Metroidvania then? It's primarily a sidescroller, features platforming, and ability locks. >>7923 >In Ocarina you can technically get all the items without completing any of the dungeons because the items are what enables you to access new areas, not the key items you get by beating the dungeon. That's mostly true of Zelda I, too. You don't need to defeat dungeon bosses until you're ready to go to the final dungeon, same as in Metroid (barring the unintended sequence break of luring a waver into the final room and freezing it to make a platform without need for the kraid or ridley statues to fall). I think it would be fair to categorize them both as "open world" games but differentiating them with more specific genres is reasonable.

>>7931 >Is Zelda II a metroidvania then? Correct. Do you see why naming genres after specific games is lazy and counterproductive now? >Call them open-world games That typically refers to explorer games that have a large freely explorable map that are primarily gated by story-progression, like GTA. Think about it: the entire world is open from the start. In the few cases where a segment of the map is cordoned off, you still can get there you just immediately get a six star wanted level. Acquiring a rocket launcher doesn't suddenly open up new parts of the map. I concede that open-world is also not a great genre name, but it's better than GTAlike. Def open to suggestions for a better name if anyone has one. Just to clarify, I'll list the other explorer game subgenres I'm aware of along with their "____like" seminal games: Iterative explorers: roguelikes Sandbox explorers: minecraftlikes Open-world explorers: GTAlikes Ability-gated explorers: metroidlikes Knowledge-gated explorers: rainworldlikes

Ender Magnolia is my fave current metroidvania https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufbAP9BoKBQ

I love Spider-Man MetroidVanias for some reason, can't recommend them enough if you're getting into the genre and want something simpler and short, also if you like the IP since that helps out. The Amazing Spider-Man 2 on Game Boy is cryptic, especially the 1st boss... until you look up the manual, there's an image that literally gives it away, after that it's a smooth 15 minute adventure, yes, it's that short, though I like it since it makes it very pick up and play, and replayable if you're autistic. Spider-Man on Game Boy Color is also quite nice.

Good question, honestly. I played Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin when they came out and absolutely loved them. Meaning, when I played them I found it hard to put my DS down and stop playing. These days I say I find them to be very addictive. Probably because they keep showering you with rewards. Enemies are easy and quick to kill, and every kill may yield a cool item drop or a new ability. In Dawn of Sorrow killing enemies can make you stronger beyond levelling up since Souls stack to provide greater benefits. Finding new areas is always fun, and obtaining a new exploration ability usually opens up a bunch of paths that could lead to new areas, items and so on. I think Metroidvania is somewhat of a misnomer because Metroid doesn't have any RPG mechanics. These games are more like Diablo clones, but the isometric point and click gameplay hull is exchanged with 2D action platforming. I say gameplay hull because mechanically these are games are all incredibly simple. They're chiefly about exploring and reaping rewards. Beyond that the games are incredibly replayable because of all the extra modes and optional challenges (since their pretty easy by default). Also, the original Konami games have fantastic soundtracks. Really I love playing these games but also consider them a guilty pleasure.

Here's an obscure one I've enjoyed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_Yeah!_Wrath_of_the_Dead_Rabbit This game sometimes brings the twin-stick shooter into play, but it's also known for it's WarioWare-like minigames as well for most of the mini-bosses you come across. I liked how it was a cheesy Metroidvania game where you can dig surfaces as well. While I played it on Xbox 360, Hell Yeah! is just an underated game that's also available on Steam. All in all, there's references to other media within the game, as well as a money management system and plenty of missions and cosmetics - the latter two of these you can get DLC for as well.

Metroidvanias suffer with high difficulty, there is a reason SOTN is considered to be so good and being easy is one of them, restarting an already explored section is boring and that is my main critique with titles like Blasphemous and Hollow Knight. Keep in mind I love hard games and often play them on the highest difficulty from the beginning.

>>8670 I couldn't disagree more, poor difficulty balancing is why Symphony of the Night is one of the most dogshit games in the genre. Most of the game is insultingly easy but there are a small handful of areas where the difficulty is suddenly sharply increased. Add to that the fact that the devs didn't learn from the most important innovation of Super Metroid (the sprint button!) and instead made Alucard meander around like a slug in a giant world to explore and you had a recipe for a slog. The irony is that they gave Richter some proper fast movement abilities but for some insane reason decided to take them away from Alucard in the final game.

>>8670 The difficulty is Symphony's biggest flaw imo. I've recently played through the whole package of classic Metroidvanias from SotN to OoE and the games that stood out to me most (positively) were the ones with higher difficulty. Just mindlessly slashing away on enemies always felt kinda meh to me. The DS games should have had hard mode as normal modes probably.

Playing Hollow Knight: Silksong; it's fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haXZ2pMTjGk