existence of soul

ｍind, brain, and body are all separate. where do you think the soul comes from? ⅰf we have souls, what's the difference between them and those of bacteria, insects, dogs, or monkeys?

>>99147 The mind is what the brain does. A soul is consciousness. It arises from the brain. It will be lost in when the brain dies. Not erased, but lost. It's kind of like a light bulb. In order to be aware or the light to exist the light bulb needs to be on. The light bulb can be on and off but once it breaks it can no longer be. As for where this consciousness comes from and where does it go - probably from the same source... But we don't know. The brain is merely a container like the light bulb. But it gives us the ability to exist as a being. And maybe that is the only way we are able to exist as a being. To be real. Enjoy your life while you can.

It is said the pineal gland is the seat of the soul. Considering the immense efforts to calcify the pineal gland in the populace this rings true.

Hard to see an entry point with all the presuppositions but I'll try. Pretty much: Divine permeance outside the biological can basically not exist outside a religious paradigm. If it doesn't exist, you immediately skip past the busywork of having to think and can be the happy little mobile gene cluster you always yearned to be. But that's retarded and I'm sure you're not so we won't. I'm guessing you're talking about Christology so let's roll with that. Other connotations for the soul would just be weird. Rapid fire: Body/Brain are the Id, since they're dictated by biological processes, 'Mind' but prolly better said 'Consciousness' is the Ego. Self-awareness. And the Soul? A link to higher stratum of divinity. Recall: 'Soulstuff' in Christianity literally exists in supertemporality. People are not 'made' when they're conceived, according to Catholics. So you were part of something before, and you will return to it one way or another. Dust to dust et al. TLDR: Prosaic Biology/Id -> Semi-Prosaic Biology/Ego -> Higher Morality/Awareness of Other Minds/Superego -> Last but certainly not least, the Divine Soul.

nothing is separate. your brain and your body are not separate things, they are very tightly coupled and one cannot exist without the other. likewise your immaterial consciousness, or soul, is emergent from your brain/body and one cannot exist without the other. in answer to your second question, we don't even really understand what human consciousness is nor the difference between one human being's consciousness and another human being's consciousness, nevermind the difference between human consciousness and that of completely different species.

Mind body and brain are not all seperate. You cant escape being motivated by feelings, even some pure pursuit of knowledge is motivated by this feeling of discovery and interest and enraprurement. That feeling if you pause in the moment and dont become captivated by some idea of being like a mad scientist is felt in the body, everything is. Your perception of your ability to differentiate mind brain and body is entirely culturally informed, from an outside perspective the fact that each is so influential to the other makes them not actually inseperable. When you plan for some scenario and only take into account your mind and brain as the agent of some scenario it inevitably fails. When you come up with some world view or system where people are just minds or brains it inevitably fails to describe reality. There isnt any more weight or any weight of a different substance to the reasons and actions of you posting this thread than there is of you getting hungry and then eating food. Im not saying these things are indifferentiable they totally are or we couldnt talk about them, im just saying the division you draw between them is only relevant to you. If you want to ask some metaphysical universal question about souls its suddenly irrelevant that you can differentiate between your drive to eat a burger and your drive to ponder the nature of your being. Its irrelevant that you subdivide yourself into body mind and brain, because others would not. The pure fact that others wouldnt and see it all as one in the same is a refutation in itself on the universality of that. It doesnt matter if they are just "too stupid" to see the distinction, if they are too stupid to subdivide themselves as such than there exists a human undivided (at least not divided into a trinity of body mind and soul, all humans subdivide themselves). So no its not a default state, there is both living and dead examples of people(s) who dont make such a distinction. Or subdivide themselves elseways. And I can imagine you now thinking "however they divide themselves its all analagous to body mind brain". No not at all, what leads you to that, thats just western canon and an ancient one at that. There is not an analagous system in every culture, no it isnt true that humans across the world always divide themselves in 3. The only commonality across the world is that yes humans subdivide themselves, cultures that try not to are often doing so as a point (as a reaction) to subdividing themselves. Which necessisitates first a thought to split your being up. Ie placing an emphasis on "becoming one whole" or similar requires some prior understanding you are not. None of this actually refutes or makes your question worthless or some soykaf though thats not what im trying to do, in fact it makes it all the more personal. Where does your soul come from and what does it do for you? Ultimately one on one its irrelevant that not everyone would subdivide themselves as you claim is fact. But you clearly do, so it begs the questions; what is the soul, what does it do, and where does it come from in the man divided into three parts? (You). The answer will not be the same for the man divided in half or in twelfths or in sixteenths or hundreds. And the undivided man would simply say what do you mean its all just me. The supremely undivided man would not even know what your talking about or why he should care. Not that thats aspirational just for fact. Me personally im divided into far more than threes, and soul doesnt factor into the equation. I love people and I talk all day to people of a variety, but ive never seen anyone place soul on what couldnt be called something less special. Most commonly, in north america at least, you all call the soul your consciousness or perception. What you probably think of as part of the mind. Subdivide your mind again and youl find you cant be sure that consciousness is anything more than you or something looking at yourself from the outside. Maybe there is a difference but its truly hard to quantify if there is any difference between a choice you made out of a conscious awareness of patterns your stuck in and a random subconscious "i dont know why I did that" act that has the same effect of breaking you out of said patterns. That is to say theres no guarantee that being able to observe your thoughts running through your head on this meta level actually changes the outcome at all. You definitely can, thats not in question, you are conscious and self aware. What this affords you or if its anything on its own enough to warrant being called soul is up for debate. What you call mind is probably this combined with the subsequent thoughts you think follow from this observation. You probably imagine theres some pure state this dialectic is happening before it creates brain reward which you think is "brain" and you pseudopsychologize all these chemical neurotransmitters you vaguely know about and all that as "feelings" and part of "brain" which is seperate from the more pure "mind". But look more closely and youl find it all bleeds into eachother to such a degree that how you choose to divide yourself is really up to personal preference it doesnt actually hit at anything new, people and everything is rhizomatic. You dont and wont ever have a full picture of yourself, thats why we talk and love and fuarrrk and hate. dont even bother turning your ability to break down the world around you into bits for a purpose or goal inwards. Its not nearly as effective because you truly have no idea which part of you is analyzing which other part and which parts of you not even you see and certainly this small part of you trying to break the rest of you down does not see. If I really really had to answer your question as directly as possible id say my soul comes from not even anything within me. Its the same soul as everyone elses not in some "we are all one" way but in like the way gravity or magnetic fields work. Because im certain I dont have anything like a soul, or rather all ive heard described as soul I can place not so mystically, what I find most mystical or materially unapproachable about myself is not unique to me in the slightest and exists not just "also" but in the exact same way as everyone else I have ever met. To such a degree that I can say "I dont have a soul" while still believing something like a soul exists, because I only "have" it in the same way a planet has a gravitational pull. You wouldnt really think of earths gravitational pull as having some unique gravity, its the same gravity creating a gravitational pull on every other body in space.

>>99156 pretty much this. the division between the mind and the soul seems like metaphysical nonsense to me. emotions and personality cannot be separated from the mind's functions in any meaningful way

Matter itself is conscious or consciousness is a state of matter. Regardless an animal soul may be a state of quantum particles or matter arranged into a more complicated structure for a different level of consciousness than say a rock.

>>99151 The pineal gland calcifies with age anyway even without fluoride. It is involved in triggering puberty and melatonin production. It is basically like an eyeball in your brain with a specific function. The body has never shown to produce that much DMT so the so called spirit molecule is unlikely anything to do with a soul. I had read somewhere tamarind decalcifies the pineal gland but I never found a study backing this up and it is something objectively measurable so studies should support what does and does not calcify and decalcify it.

The mind and soul are made up social constructs by Christianity, subscribing is submission to their religion. Are you Christian?

>>99166 >neurosuggesting no pre-christian person ever concieved of the mind or soul I know this is bait, but please try slightly harder next time... Unless you have some esoteric truths for us ala Julian Jaynes, in which case please explain. >>99147 This question is poorly specified, and will only lead to soykaf-flinging... Challenge for the materialists: Provide 1) a convincing argument and/or 2) a specific piece of proof that the mind, body, and soul are inseperable, and/or that the soul does not exist. Extra-hard mode: Do this without undermining the foundations of (almost) all knowledge ala Hume.

>>99147 There is a thing called "consciousness", an environment where various mental phenomena, like an imaginary apple, exist. When this "consciousness" interacts with the so-called "external world", like when we wish to discuss the state of our consciousness using our body... It must transmit some energy and information to said body. This energy, born from our consciousness and flowing through our body, is what we call our "mind" or our "soul". And energy is also what all matter, motion, and possibly even space are made of. Humans are animals with no intellectual growth limit. Other animals have a strict limit. As for bacteria, I don't see why any consciousness would claim them as its "body".