The Fundemental Problem

We all know what the problem is (we being us "autistics" because normals are helpless) it never helps to be vague so I'll be direct: it is people who have no empathy. people with NPD, BPD and psychopaths to be specific. the three usual suspects, the three cunts if you will. they struggle with empathy for different reasons, but more or less they are all psychopaths of sorts. I will sometimes be using the word "psychopath" to refer to all three as an umbrella term for the purposes of this discussion. NPDs main ailment seems to be the inability to recognize that they are NOT the center of the world or that the world has other people in it, and that they are a person separated from others. that's because narcissists don't have a concept of a self in the first place. they don't think of themselves as individuated from the world they ARE the world. in other words, they are cognitive solipsists. if you listen carefully, you'll literally hear them when talking to themselves outloud sometimes (they have no self awareness and that's why they speak their inner thoughts loudly, as if other people don't exist) they will almost start to acknowledge that other people exist. no, I'm serious. they actually say this, they say: "Other people exist!" usually around the ages of 14-17 you'll catch them have this conversation with themselves. this psychological ailment prevents them from being able to empathize with others, because "others" don't exist, because they themselves, as individuals don't exist, because the concept of "self" is missing from the narcissists mind and thus no empathy. empathy is the abstraction of self-concept. Now let's talk BPDs, I'm a lot less familiar with this condition but it's highly similar to narcissists, they more or less struggle with self-concept as well. mostly because their minds are all over the place, there is no persistent identity with the BPD. it's pure id. chaotic bipolar id, AKA a mindless shapeshifting unstable beast. solipsists as well. psychopaths, I personally had the least experience with so I understand them the least. just like the previous two, they have no self-concept. but again, for a different reason, that I don't know what exactly. they are solipsists as well. all three are solipsists. all three mistake the world for themselves. because none of them have a self-concept. they think they are the world and not a part of it. which makes them true nihilists. after all, if only you exist, then only you can have meaning and everything else is meaningless. it means nothing that someone else is happy, it means nothing that someone else is sad. because there is no someone else. because I don't have a concept of someone, of "self", not even myself! there is just the world (me!). and a nihilist is dangerous in a meaningful world, and our world is meaningful otherwise consciousness wouldn't exist. there would be no basis for which anyone would value anything. all three are nihilistic parasites. and all three run and control our world, because normal users let them, because normals are unable to understand... well almost anything. normals gladly bend over for them, go to war for them, have their kids and marry them! normals are almost utterly helpless against these psychopaths. in the past at least, back when we lived in smaller communities, they would inevitably get kicked out from the village/tribe. but now that large metropolitan cities exist (cities are infestation centers for these soykafs) the only ones immune to them are autists. because autists don't listen to authority nor do they care about conformity as a base value. so naturally, psychopaths and autists are arch enemies. if all neurotypicals disappeared tomorrow, the power that narcs, shapeshifting-freaks (BPDs) and psychopaths have in this world to go down to zero. so what is to be done? what is the plan exactly? returning to monkey and foregoing civilization doesn't help solve the problem. it only helps a few individuals that choose that lifestyle. getting rid of normal people as a way to attack the parasites isn't possible as an option. attacking the parasites headon is not possible either because of the complacency of nomral users (they even defend them sometimes: "oh psychopaths aren't that bad, they're just misunderstood! and besides, we need violent retarded monkeys with no empathy to be our presidents and CEOs!") so what is to be done?

>Now let's talk I don't want to talk with you. You are stupid half assed excuse for a poster. You didn't even fuarrrking bother to make your post readable. Did you ever fuarrrking try laying out your thoughts coherently and sequentially? Of course not, because it's too hard for you and modern society gladly sacrifices quality for "inclusiveness".

>>92558 >npd, bpd, psychopathy are just today's goto diagnoses for people you don't like. everyone's ex-boyfriend is a narcissist everyone's ex-girlfriend has BPD, and anyone perceived to have screwed you over is a psychopath. this thread seems no different. it doesn't seem like you're talking about real npd/bpd/psychopathy. Your post reads like you've read some clickbait pop psychology articles or watched garbage youtube/tiktok videos about "the scary dark mind of psychopaths!" and started over applying the labels. the reality is that while there are people with NPD/BPD/ASPD/etc, most of the evil that goes on in the world is done by the hands of normal people with normal levels of empathy. You do not need a personality disorder to do fuarrrked up things. >so what is to be done? avoid people who negatively impact your life and put in safe guards that prevent or minimize their impact when they cannot be avoided. it is really that simple >if all neurotypicals disappeared tomorrow, the power that narcs, shapeshifting-freaks (BPDs) and psychopaths have in this world to go down to zero. you say "all neurotypicals" but you seem to mean "non-autistic people" because many types of neurodivergence make people more vulnerable to exploitation. Predators typically do not seek out happy, healthy, well-adjusted people to prey on. and autism does not make you immune to being manipulated or abused. it is quite easy to trigger autists and anyone who went to public school will have seen how easy it was for aspies to be manipulated.

>>92558 >>92560 You're both not interested in discussing the subject. if you cared you'd ignore my ADHD somewhat low effort posting and get to the point anyways. and you >>92560 would not underestimate the problem by saying that you just need to ignore or distance yourself from these people.

I discovered that people exist about the age of six. Does this make me an NPDite? >>92560 >You do not need a personality disorder to do fuarrrked up things. I might argue that the best definition for a person who is disordered, is a person given to doing fuarrrked up things. If not this, then what is it?

why do specifically men with autism have to come up with overly complicated detatched from reality schizophrenic systems to explain why normal things that happen to everyone happen to them. i can assure you people with bpd dont control much of anything. im friends with many who have it (diagnosed) and they are entirely ruled by a desire to be loved and validated, they often dont have much of an identity of their own. They will watch a movie and if they really like it or a character they might start talking like them and saying they cant help it (they really think they cant) while everyone around them can see right through it and that its a fake persona and kind of cringe. Well everyone except men with autism maybe. Bpd has a high likelihood to go into remission if the person can consistently receive that love and validation they didnt get in a firm measured way, so whos really lacking empathy here. Thats not something youd be capable of because your just fixated on how they are "manipulating" you. This whole post is poor me poor me I cant figure the people around me out so they must be attacking me and im better than the normals who actually try to give these people love because they can see they are in their own hell as much as they might cause others. You have expert defenses against something others dont see as a huge threat because it just isnt a huge threat and they dont treat people as a bunch of categories. If somebody does something psychopathic il probably stop talking to them, and im not going to get so invested in a relationship with a new person before I start seeing signs. I am not regularly in danger of being killed my friends with bpd are not all pretending to be someone they arent so they can one day kill me. It isnt hard for a "normal" to see through the "shapeshifting" they just understand its part of this person and forgive it. It cant really hurt me if someone with BPD suddenly believes they are an altruistic saint and starts spouting words of wisdom to me, I already know they arent so I just let them be annoying and move on. I wouldnt even have to know they had bpd to do this. Im very for not treating autism as an illness but every time I see something like this or some post about autism actually being a super power and actually making you better than the normals it doesnt come across much different to me than a narcissist pretending to be something they arent and I start thinking "oh yeah these people are disabled". However its almost always just a guy doing the typical guy soykaf but autism edition. You realize having autism doesnt exclude you from any of the disorders you listed right? You could have both and probably do, look I can armchair diagnose too!

>>92564 >Im very for not treating autism as an illness but every time I see something like this or some post about autism actually being a super power and actually making you better than the normals it doesnt come across much different to me than a narcissist pretending to be something they arent and I start thinking "oh yeah these people are disabled". However its almost always just a guy doing the typical guy soykaf but autism edition. Nice way of shifting the burden and missing the point. I never said that autists have superpowers, just that normals are complicit. and the post never talks about autists specifically, the main discussion is about the psychotic in society. nice deflecting.

>>92565 your deflecting right now by not addressing the main body of the paragraph nor the other poster saying similar by just spouting "ur wrong u dont get it". We do get it, everything your blaming or accusing others for seems like a tell id be genuinely surprised if you knew yourself let alone anyone around you or their motives.

>>92563 I do not wish to get too far into a semantics argument, but personality disorders are not about doing fuarrrked up things but rather about being atypical in such a way that it negatively impacts your life. Schizoid personality disorder, for example, isn't characterized by doing anything grossly unethical. Regardless, the point is that doing fuarrrked up things is part of the human condition, not exclusive to people with the disorders OP mentions. OP places the blame for most fuarrrked up things on a minority of people with personality disorders, which is simplistic. Everyone is capable of evil and will commit wrongdoings if the circumstances are right. Often they'll even think they're behaving ethically. >>92565 >the main discussion is about the psychotic in society. This furthers shows that you have no idea what you're talking about. BPD/NPD/psychopathy are not psychotic disorders.

>>92583 You're self-inserting things I never said or claimed. and you're deliberately missing the point or are an idiot. I NEVER said that ONLY they do bad things. I never said that. you pulled that out of your ass about me. liar. when I said "psychotic" obviously I wasn't using a precise term to describe them all. but you'll take any opportunity to fuarrrk with what I wrote. I meant psychotic as in: batshit crazy, as a casual term. and you are wrong about them being only harmful to themselves, you dunce. normal people do bad things, yes. but they have a an inhibitory reinforcement mechanism where they feel bad for doing things and inevitably stop doing them or end up with trauma if FORCED to do these bad actions repetitively. NPDs, BPDs and literal psychopaths DON'T feel any negativity about harming others. THEY HAVE NO CONCEPT OF "OH SHIT I SHOULD STOP DOING THIS, THIS IS BAD". harming others is as casual and mundane to them as you cutting through butter, if not positive, which it often is for them. you don't even need to be a psychologist to understand this about them if you've had any experience with them. so, you're either lying and obfuscating on purpose or retarded. at any case, it is clear that some of you don't want to discuss this topic, that's fine. you don't need to derail the thread for that.

>>92560 the sanest and best post I've read on Lainchan for a long time. Pleasantly surprised.

>>92597 >THEY HAVE NO CONCEPT OF "OH SHIT I SHOULD STOP DOING THIS, THIS IS BAD". This again proves that you don't know what you're talking about, the principles of psychopathy are being fully aware that what you're doing is wrong but continuing regardless. >you don't even need to be a psychologist to understand this about them if you've had any experience with them. You do, as >>92560 mentioned people are motivated by personal feelings when they throw diagnostics and aren't focused on marking the checkboxes required for a proper diagnosis, all you do is go "hurr durr this guy is bad so he must have some Cluster B personality disorder" without understanding the disorders you're spouting out even at a high level.

All I'm getting from this thread is that autism is usually just misused as a word for people who a ee socially retarded to feel better about it

>>92597 >I NEVER said that ONLY they do bad things. I never said that. you pulled that out of your ass about me. I never said that you said that. I said that you place most of the blame on them. Is that inaccurate? You called them the fundamental problem and say that they run and control the world, so I fail to see how I mischaracterized your words. >when I said "psychotic" obviously I wasn't using a precise term to describe them all. but you'll take any opportunity to fuarrrk with what I wrote. I meant psychotic as in: batshit crazy, as a casual term. It's not "fuarrrking with what you wrote;" it's pointing out that you're using psychology terms incorrectly which is bad given your premise is based on you supposedly understanding three psychology terms. Even the loose "batshit crazy" isn't apt for most people with these disorders. >and you are wrong about them being only harmful to themselves at no point did I ever say anything to this effect. >NPDs, BPDs and literal psychopaths DON'T feel any negativity about harming others. THEY HAVE NO CONCEPT OF "OH SHIT I SHOULD STOP DOING THIS, THIS IS BAD". harming others is as casual and mundane to them as you cutting through butter this is untrue. People with NPD/BPD often struggle with doing a bad thing during an episode, feeling guilty after, wanting to stop, hating themselves for what they did, etc. Through this process, many even develop coping mechanisms that allow them to function ethically even during episodes. also, even as they're doing a bad thing, it is less that they are unconcerned with the harm they're causing, but more that their rationalization is fuarrrked up enough to justify it. "it's okay to scream at this fast food worker for five minutes over getting my order wrong because they made a mistake that cost me my time and disrespected me" (example intentionally chosen as both a rationalization that BPD/NPD people may make and that neurotypicals "having a bad day" may make) and like >>92605 points out, people with ASPD/psychopathy, when misbehaving, are likely to realize that what they're doing is wrong and just not care (though even this is a simplification, but sufficient for this discussion). "Lying that my fast food order was incorrect may inconvenience the workers and cost the store money, and the workers may know I'm lying and think I'm a dick, but I'll get extra food, so I don't care" (again, example chosen as a justification that both someone with psychopathy and a neurotypical person may make). You also seem to have taken a stance of "nobody who disagrees with me is arguing in good faith" which is not conducive to good discussion, and indicates that you are not prepared to discuss this topic. I suggest you take a moment to breath, relax, and assume each post is genuine instead of an attempt to "fuarrrk with what you wrote" or "deliberately miss the point." we are extending you the courtesy of assuming your arguments are being made in good faith despite your use of insults and personal attacks, and you should do the same.

for my entire life I've struggled to empathize with others. as for which of the three you seem to be afraid of, I seem to be the farthest from narcissism, and my general behavior seems to be somewhere between BPD and sociopathy. in clinical history there is a spectrum between "high functioning" and "low functioning" sociopaths (or rather, psychopaths and sociopaths), one of whom tends towards material success, such as politicians and CEOs, the other seemingly being "stupider" and more impulsive often winding up in prisons more frequently. I think my experiences have put me in about the middle: I have trouble holding down work consistently as a wagie but I can get by through hustles, I have a much better grasp of risk and reward than other hustlers i know, perhaps because I am much more risk averse than most hustlers. I'm also female, which has been shown to contribute. You should know that all 3 of these you mentioned are considered dramatic personality disorders alongside histrionic and bipolar, and I have not every been diagnosed clinically of any of these (I have been diagnosed with autism and ADHD, however) mainly because I don't think diagnosis is meaningful - if I have a medical record of antisocial behavior or an "addictive personality" then I might not get prescribed medicine for ADHD, for instance, or effective painkillers if I ever get injured. Backstory aside, your post comes off as wildly misinformed. I won't bother extensively repeating what has been said in this thread already, >>92560 makes some very good points. I will add a few things: - Firstly that sociopathy aka ASPD has a high overlap with all 3 types of ADHD, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if it was found all "dark triad" type categories or dramatic personality disorders more broadly have a higher overlap with other neurodivergences. This is not to undermine the premise that neurodivergent people are more likely to be abused, however. BPD people especially, are more likely to be abused, and yes I am familiar with the notion of the karpman drama triangle and how savior roles can be created by abusive people for others to be complicit in their abusiveness. they are still abused more frequently, and any cycle of violence or 'hurt people, hurt people' type narratives fall apart for this reason. infact BPD is very similar to CPTSD which even has some symptoms of sociopathy as well, but is far less stigmatized and often treated as a "quieter" form of BPD or an everything diagnosis where they don't really know what's wrong with you. - Secondly, to continue on with the manipulation premise, I spent a period of my life attempting to develop a framework for autistic people to learn how to socialize and socially integrate, i did this with the understanding not every autistic person wanted to socially integrate and it would be better if autistic people were treated fairly in society, however sometimes masking was more necessary. I think what disillusioned me of it the most was seeing how any method used to get ahead would be used to exploit autistic people or other neurodivergent people first, often with the premise of support, like others ITT have stated. and whats more, its very pathetic to see people doing this because oftentimes the "inferior" position that they have is a self-projection, and they just need to exploit others to feel like they're doing better when in reality their and their friend's social positioning worse because of it. Sometimes they are actually doing materially worse in life, like being unemployed, but through some kind of magical thinking adopt a mindset where they must hurt others to get ahead. "Petty" is the proper word for it. - Finally, and more importantly because of how the framework is completely flawed. There are other psychological reasons why you're wrong, but I wanted to get into something more underlying. Namely that you give philosophy a bad name when you throw around "nihilism" and "solipsism" the way you do. Because "solipsism" can only really be held or considered as a deliberate position, and because calling what seems like an accidental or concealed, unconscious philosophy to be the truest form of nihilism doesn't give the impression it gets to the heart of the matter. After all, if the dramatic personalities you mentioned have at our core a kind of nihilism because we do not see a greater prosocial meaning to our actions, would normals not be the same way in how they reinforce it? whose to say society itself isn't harmful to begin with? in fact, you yourself criticize it in the post and claim things should be done radically differently. If a sociopath is somebody whose anti-social, and society is anti-human, why shouldn't we all be sociopaths? Your philosophical claim is also more immediately wrong for other reasons, but hopefully from this you can see the bigger picture. For example, you claim that >after all, if only you exist, then only you can have meaning and everything else is meaningless which directly contradicts the notion in solipsism and generally stated around NPD/ASPD people that everyone they see is a projection of themselves. you can argue that we *only* find meaning in our self-projections, which only hold meaning due to our internal ordering of the world. but how do you go about proving that it is any different from anyone? you can create these categories and set up "tests" for people that basically trap them in whatever bad person labels you want, which will color your observations of them from then on as a negative, assigning malice to any benign action. If you're familiar with the idea of a p-zombie, its very similar philosophically speaking.

(Me, You, World) - This is what people claim, but I don't buy it. (Me), (You), (World) - Probably true, but I don't care. (Me), (You, World) - This is what I go with for ethical convenience. (Me, You), (World) - Certainly not, lol.

>>92558 There is at least one BPD schizo on this board OP. they're trying everything in their pathetic power to derail your thread as you said. lainchan is probably compromised by them.

BPD is not weak empathy it is high empathy from emotional extremes. There is different types of BPD, most only think of the petulant variety people who lash out at others but most only hurt themselves. In many cases this is the result of neglect or unpredictable parents. NPD also is not about lack of empathy it is about low self esteem covered up by trying to trick themselves into thinking they have value by seeing their own value as above others. In many cases this is result of being put down by others. ASPD is also not a lack of empathy but a low baseline of empathy where empathy takes active effort. In many cases this is the result of abuse. ASD is low empathy in most forms and higher empathy in emotional reactiveness but is stemming from inability to pick up on social cues and being over stimulated by sensory input.

>>92669 >NPD also is not about lack of empathy it is about low self esteem covered up by trying to trick themselves into thinking they have value by seeing their own value as above others. In many cases this is result of being put down by others. I suspect one variant of narcissism that's biased more toward the "covert" variety actually stems from shared underlying machinery with schizoid and schizotypal manifestations. It is almost autistic in some ways, even if it manifests as le "dark empath" in some cases. Those biased more towardsgrandiose narcissism probably have more psychopathic traits. It all depends on baseline temperment and the timing and character of early childhood brain damage.

>>92669 >nobody lacks empathy ok?

>>92671 Empathy is a retarded concept to begin with. It's "theory of mind" for norm!es. This why (GASP) narcissists and psychopaths actually DO have "empathy" but (SHOCK AWE PLOT TWIST) it's actually "cold empathy". *eye widen*. Yes. It's cognitive empathy but without affective / somatic components. Wow. The fruits of psychology.~~~ This is how NPCs think. It takes them until they're 40, 50 to figure anything out. Everyone knows "affective empathy" can be switched off. Sometimes you see someone cut themselves or have some accident and you cringe, other times you just don't care or feel it on any level. ie you don't bother. People who use "cold empathy" are just in a permanent "don't bother" state, due to a combination of physical brain damage, functional brain damage, and conditioning in early childhood. Like duh. I figured that out long ago. What takes these retards so long and why are all the structures and names for what they make up so retarded also? Oh, they're NPCs. Duh.

">>92583 >BPD/NPD/psychopathy are not psychotic disorders. your post is largely correct, however, BPD is sometimes considered a psychotic disorder: the "borderline" initially meant "the borderline of psychotic and neurotic". for this reason its characteristic of the entire B cluster of personality disorders, with cluster A being "odd" or "psychotic" and C cluster being "anxious or fearful" or "neurotic". >>92647 lainchan was made by a "bpd schizo", lol. new users have forgotten what this place is about. >>92669 its both. there's two neural networks that are believed to govern empathy, that can be roughly corresponded to emotional receptivity and seeing different perspectives. these networks are called Shared Representations and Mental State Attribution. people diagnosed with BPD have a high sensitivity in the first network and a low receptivity in the latter. these aren't the core of BPD however and are parts of larger neurological patterns - for instance the Default Mode Network (DMN) is also affected, which seemingly pertains to self-concept. that disruption is also itself part of the even larger pattern of high disconnection between the limbic structures of the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex, which contributes to memory issues, impulsivity, emotional regulation, and threat perception. and that's only the start. being BPD is not fun, to say the least. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23389774/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23389774/ this can be treated in a number of ways, however. for starters, dialectical behavior therapy produces changes to the amygdala that seemingly lead to behavioral and emotional changes in BPD patiens. additionally, activation (and deactivation in the specific case of mindfulness training) of crucial parts of the DMN were shown to result from DBT. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36110290/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31132302/ Amygdala as well as prefrontal abormalities are also shown to be the case in ASPD, as well as a number of other interesting neuronal differences that I haven't put enough research into. psychological intervention is also heavily under-researched, however I would tentatively say that the mindfulness-based treatments - DBT and CBT primarily have potentially positive outcomes given the seeming results of CBT-based contingency management and DBT, according to the meta-analysis below. I would add, though, that the observed difference are slight and "pure" CBT did not necessarily produce better outcomes, it was only Contingency Management aspect that had any results. more research is needed. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8094166/ That's not all there is to it. at several different sites, your brain has endogenous receptors of opioids that are primarily receptive to naturally produced endorphins. trauma has been shown to damage these receptors. additionally, there is a regular lack of production of endogenous opioids in borderline patients. there are behavioral ways to increase opioid production, there are also chemical ways to increase your body's supplies of opioids - or use alkaloids with agonist activity, as is the case of kratom and its extracts. This should explain some of the extreme behaviors of the borderline. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20693463/ TL;DR, if you or a loved one has BPD, acquire 7-ho-mitragynine and learn about DBT and mindfulness. It could actually save a life. >>92670 the idea of clinical narcissism is already significantly enough fraught that its actually been completely removed from the international statistical classification of disease, or ICD-11. the idea that there are additionally subtypes like "covert narcissism" "dark empathy" etc is not based on clinical science, but rather through the pop cultural phenomenon described as moral OCD. which is poorly named but seems roughly emergent from the way bodies classify themselves under surveillance. its captive wolf behavior, and it is equally justified to see the condition as affecting the subjects of its categorization (the narcissists in question) than those making the categories in the first place.. sometimes, they are even the same person. This is not to say there is no neuroscientific basis for narcissism or that it (or some recomposition) can't be reintroduced to the ICD later. simply that there is a lack of effective clinical approach or viable methodologies in comparison to other conditions - like ASPD and BPD mentioned earlier. According to the following study, it seems that the neurology of NPD is assumed based on behavioral correlates to feature a low receptivity of the SR network (in comparison to BPD, which has a high sensitivity) and an "intact" MSA network. Personally, I would consider the possibility that there are less well-known personality disorders that don't necessarily fit into the classic A, B, C PD clusters (or do, but that is beside the point) that are partial factors in the development of narcissistic traits, such as socialized conduct disorder. There's another I'm thinking of that I forgot the name where you feel a strong need to control others relationships, I'm aware this is considered part of Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD, not the same thing as OCD) or anankastic personality disorder in the DSM-11, but I seem to think it's something else. anyways, you get my point. As for therapeutic approaches, I think it would be best to recognize the false dichotomies at play and recognize that supposed grandiose narcissists demonstrate traits of both "grandiose" and "vulnerable" narcissism, as well as consider that vulnerable narcissists might simply be subclinical but that there are other neurologies, such as BPD, at play. Thereapeutically, we should take NPD on a case-by-case basis and treat the "underlying" issues that are clinically approachable, such as the dysregulation mentioned earlier in BPD and ASPD, or other comorbidities like anorexia (or other ED), OCD, depression, ADHD, etc. This can be difficult due to the general direction of psychiatry as anti-patient, which similarly to ASPD doesn't mix well with the conditions defiant nature. from a non-clinical therapeutic perspective, it is also worth consideration that some NPD patients are repressed homosexuals as well.

>>92677 BPD is still not a psychotic disorder. The borderline did mean borderline psychotic but this is an outdated view that is not the current take just like how autism is no longer thought to be a childhood schizophrenia yet retains the name autism. There is a reason BPD has been renamed in some countries as emotionally unstable personality disorder (EUPD). Though I do agree in a way it is psychotic like since someone with BPD does have views not quite in touch with reality but not to the point it goes beyond what can be real. The only personality disorder considered psychotic like is schizotypal because for some this is early sign of developing schizophrenia but it's not psychotic just odd or eccentric. Schizoid is in same category which also has it's name meaning schizophrenic like due to their isolation but it isn't actually related and I find schizoids tend to actually be people who either are autistic or traumatized but I haven't met anyone diagnosed with it yet to dig into that theory of mine. Also what is this about 7-ho-mitragynine? That soykaf is addictive where kratom is more difficult to be addicted to. Where are you even getting the idea of using it for BPD? You have it completely backwards. Use of opioids down-regulates opioid receptors not up-regulates, this is part of what causes them to be addictive because the desensitization to them. To up-regulate opioid receptors you would use not an agonist but an antagonist like naloxone or naltrexone. I would question this as the treatment for BPD. Naloxone is used off label to treat depersonalization derealization disorder and may increase emotions once opioid receptors up-regulate because it has a downstream effect on the NMDA receptors which has a downstream effect on dopaminergic activity. I've also heard of ketamine used for people with blunted emotions. A person with BPD has anything but blunted emotions, they have heightened emotions. You could compare BPD to be similar to CPTSD in some ways, a kind of specific range of expressions of it which may be why CPTSD was not accepted into the DSM even though the criteria seems to be clearly it's own thing from BPD and PTSD and dysthymia. Psychiatry is not actually very scientific. It mirrors some of the parts of science like a pseudo science but often makes conclusions without enough evidence because not all variables are ruled out. It only has more science in the subfield of neuropsychology which also is not without some troubles. A lot of abnormal psychology is built on specific philosophy and societal expectations. Mental illness is not an abnormality of the individual in many cases but a normal reaction to extreme circumstances.

>>92679 >The borderline did mean borderline psychotic but this is an outdated view that is not the current take just like how autism is no longer thought to be a childhood schizophrenia yet retains the name autism Correct, but the concept of a "psychotic disorder" is actually completely outdated. The Wikipedia page for psychosis lists BPD and schizotypal both as personality disorders with psychosis symptoms because there is a well-documented history of psychosis in borderline patients. >there is a reason BPD has been renamed in some countries to EUPD Sure, but EUPD has been removed and replaced again with BPD for specific symptoms while the rest have been folded into other PD symptoms. >schizoid is in the same category Yes, as I was saying, these are the odd personality disorders: Schizophrenic, Schizotypal, Schizoaffective, Schizoid, and Paranoid. I say later in my post the cluster A, B, and C of PDs that exists in DSM corresponds to the outdated model of psychotic, borderline, and neurotic. which is why the framework as a whole needs to be updated. ICD-11 does a pretty good job of this by distinguishing 6 different personality disorder traits under a broader disorder (PD), which is itself differentiated from dissocial (antisocial) and conduct disorder. >Also what is this about 7-ho-mitragynine? That soykaf is addictive where kratom is more difficult to be addicted to Users can develop a problematic relationship to any substance or thing for that matter, whether this qualifies as "addiction" is a political debate topic that I'd rather not get into. I simply brought it up because it is more pure with fewer metabolic side effects and at its concentration is closer to the effect profile you'd want to treat the condition when the alternative is opiates - for a BPD person whose opioid system is already fried by trauma, already up-regulated, providing opioid agonist on a circumstantial basis can be a godsend. >To up-regulate opioid receptors you would use not an agonist but an antagonist like naloxone or naltrexone. I would question this as the treatment for BPD.... may increase emotions... BPD already has increased emotions Exactly, which is why you don't want to use an up-regulator on somebody whose post-traumatic neurology is already experiencing withdrawal symptoms. And the point is not to downregulate, obviously, the point is to provide an external source of opioid agonism when baseline opioid activity is already low, as the study will tell you. And finally, I am not recommending it as a constant solution or a regular dose but rather the circuit as an explanation for extreme behavior, and the availability (not daily use) as an alternative to extreme behavior, which is more dangerous like self harm, getting into fights, extreme (suicidal) risk-taking, and of course illicit opioid use which is more likely to cause an overdose. Consider the prescription of stimulants or anxiolytics - these medications will also downregulate their conditions which already feature downregulation, but careful, circumstantial use is effective and ethical clinical practice. Likewise I am not suggesting 7-ho as a continuous treatment option, rather something to be taken on occasion for episodes. The continuous treatment I am recommending is dialectical or cognitive behavior therapy. >You could compare BPD to be similar to CPTSD in some ways, a kind of specific range of expressions of it which may be why CPTSD was not accepted into the DSM even though the criteria seems to be clearly it's own thing from BPD and PTSD and dysthymia. that makes sense. although it seems like CPTSD has also been accepted into the ICD-11. >Psychiatry is not actually very scientific Agree. Although I do not think it should be treated as a research discipline in itself, rather a discipline of care which draws from multiple disciplines of research. Neuroscience and neuropsychology included. >Mental illness is not an abnormality of the individual in many cases but a normal reaction to extreme circumstances. I think i get the idea of what you're saying that psychiatric categories don't represent a kind of innate type of person rather than a reaction to circumstances. however I would argue in the case of some disorders that something like having a missing arm or leg would be simultaneously an abnormality of the individual as well as a result of extreme circumstance. All care professions should follow the Hippocratic Oath, and all frameworks within them should focus on patient needs, not societal or organizational needs from the patient. While this may put some real issues out-of-scope, I will say with confidence that those issues have alternative solutions that should be addressed from outside of the patient relationship.

Any study on mental disorders should note whether a participant has intact genitals, came from a genital cutting culture (male or female), and at what age and context it was performed.

>>92558 Why do you care? Medication? Self-medication? Elimination? Amplification? Psychology is boring. Classification of traits as normal or abormal is especially boring. Setting thresholds. There is already enough thresholds as it is. Setting further is exhausting. The present distribution of traits in the universe is optimal. If you like, correct it. Well, you are correcting it. Your post is doing it. How would you like to change society anyway? Physically? Eugenically? Educationwise? In any case, the conversation should be about approach effectiveness, decision theory or such. How do you quantify solution feasibility? What are the universal models for mapping personal capacity for swaying social composition of traits such as "psychopathy"? Is posting online the most effective change? Or is ig radical acts irl? Should you speak of individual causes, or should you ply the society on a general level of rendering it accepting of self-change on genetic level? In other words, render it generally more self-questioning as such? Aren't those the questions you should be asking? Isn't that the bootstrap level of any genetic intervention? Of change maximization?

>>92698 I apologize for sounding harsh, but whenever I read about psychological traits, I am reminded of evolutionary optima. There is, indeed, exactly the right amount of psychopaths or narcissists or whatever in the world. But locally, I am down for action against them, why not. Just, it is a single member of a vast, vast class of embracable problems. And whereas there are problems that (in certain models) are as urgent as to demand paying no time at all for framing them in a strategy, but instead demand (at least partly) immediate action, this doesn't look like one to me. And all the same, you don't sound like the type to want to understand. (Which is fine. I don't want to understand most things either.) So why not talk about metastrategies of whether embracing strategies is a sound of course of action?

I certainly had a genetic propensity for narcissism but what triggered it was spending my developmental years as a constant target for violence and ridicule. Can you be a narcissist after ego death? You see yourself as an extension of the world (one without much control) and its processes as primordial transmutation. I've done some soykafty things but to soykafty people that deserve it, or fueled negative changes in people too stupid to live successfully. They envy and despise me. Oh, such is life.

>>92706 >Can you be a narcissist after ego death? You see yourself as an extension of the world (one without much control) and its processes as primordial transmutation. In what senses can you not? Except for by a definition you embrace? You continue to be subject to selfserving drives. Nor is your behavior going to be consistent, never anymore repeat past patterns of yours. Nor are you a single mind. I feel I am a great multiplicity of minds / drives cohabiting my brain / body. In that view, it seems trivial that some of them should be narcissistic. What is narcissism anyway? An "independent" psychometric? I should like to connect to people across differences of value and definition. Values and definitions never align perfectly between entities. In that, all beings having them are "same".

>>92707 Really, it is more like there are not people, out there, but genes and memes, with whom other genes and memes are speaking. Humans are really the not the first-order objects. It is only owing to ?e?etic discord, or accord, that "we" speak in pronouns at all.

I just wish we can round them all up and get rid of them already. the only thing stopping me from killing them is the law, I'd become a serial killer that hunts these parasites down.

>>92707 It seems like narcs don’t really have egos; they just operate with their ids and personas. When their persona crumbles, it’s like their whole world is falling apart, and they can end up feeling really depressed. So, the idea of ego death doesn’t quite fit here because they never really had egos to begin with. It’s not about destroying something to help them; it’s more about recognizing that it was never there in the first place. they can't be helped.

>>92710 So what is ego to you? An essentialist belief in individual personhood? A sense of importance or significance given to the instance of the above within one? A persistent reactive pattern of self-reassertion after a perceived slight? The social construct of individuality, as in the Latin source pronoun -- the existence and utility of pronominal address? Capacity to feel shame? Inner discourse, self-incorporation in conscious models?

I wrote a lovely poem that expresses my love for these sad creatures. >kill kill kill >kill a narc >rape a BPD >vaporize a psychopath >with no rhyme or reason >just like this song! kill satan and drown in his blood

>>92713 to the tune of Happy Birthday + "and many more"

>>92707 Narcissism might be either a never-ending anarchist need for individuation or a necessity for external validation. At least in my opinion. I consider myself to be in the first camp; I'm from a family of narcissists that have the drive to be the other. >>92710 This process of the crumbling persona might be a necessary step for all narcissists. Of course the world falls apart (as does your image of yourself), but we feed on the very need to die and rebuild. To break down and embrace what we are as the world asks and returns in kind. In that sense narcissism might just be an acceptance of life as war and the world as a battlefield of competing traits and the detachment from the childish ideal of being a nice person because you don't want to hurt anyone else. An acceptance of poison to maybe one day make the world a better place (what a narcissistic thought this is! fuarrrk society though).

>>92744 >>92746 The Jewish "core" is a manufacturing process handled by cluster Bs. It creates more Cluster Bs and depending on genetics some spillover into cluster A and C dominant modes.

The thing about these people is how pathetic they are. they can't live with themselves so they live among each other and with their hosts (normal, sane people) and suck the life out of them. they're not that smart, and actually pretty dumb. the issue is that most "normal" people are even dumber than them; and so they take advantage of that. they hire gangstalkers (a combination of low IQ retards or some sane blackmailed people, and some psychopaths/narcs/bpds that participate) that stalk normal folk, and... for what? for the crime of annoying them! all these resources wasted for shutting down dissent. we are ruled by pathetic deranged weasels, they even look like weasels a lot of the time (like inbreds). if they could only have an objective glimpse at themselves they'd cringe. but they can't because they are the definition of self-unaware. the good new is, their empire is collapsing, because their systems are self-destructive, just like the creators of these systems! and if there is a hell (as if this world isn't currently hellish enough as is), they are going there.

thank you jorgan peterman for naming and craving society's labels, i will always be good because being bad is um bad and i don't wanna be bad cuz its not good

If we can identify the bad people and how they harm themselves and others, can't we deal with them ethically? Why does my mind skip to extermination? What can be forged from a BPD/NPD/APSD? Can't we put them in the garden of Walden 2? Personality disorder definitions are political propositions: are these persons inferior? do they deserve less than full autonomy? It's interesting they've never tried to define personalities deserving more rights than the baseline. (geniuses are multi-trait outliers, so this is okay) >>92672 >>92677 Thank you for your posts. >>92679 >Naloxone is used off label to treat depersonalization derealization disorder and may increase emotions once opioid receptors up-regulate because it has a downstream effect on the NMDA receptors which has a downstream effect on dopaminergic activity. I don't know anything about the chemical treatment debate. >DPDR >BPD has anything but blunted emotions, they have heightened emotions. On disassociation: people diagnosed with either DID or BPD fit the other checklist 65%-70% of the time. >>92706 >>92707 Contemplating obsession/aggrandizing a body regardless of personality, versus a personality regardless of body. >>92748 I think the jews/irish are interesting because they both have sophisticated legalism and sometimes look like each other.

the wave of genocidal tourists raiding this thread has convinced me of something: narcissistic personality disorder is based, and NPD individuals deserve to be treated the way they want to be. you can't make that many losers angry at you without being cool after all.

>>92840 Let me help you understand. the only reason your kind walks away freely is because the world is an 80 IQ soykafhole on average. just one standard deviation above the average would have the entire world eating your kind. the day of the rope is coming, you better run.