Lost everything, need help and advice

>Be 25 >Highschool drop out artist >Still 1k in debt from last creative project >2 little siblings 16 and 13 >Mom is a incestuous pedophile drinking herself to death >At least dad is no pedo and keeping an eye on her >Turns out my brother's flashback resurfaces and he was raped by my dad >Go to court against parents >Get psychosis for 2 months >Lose my job due to psychosis >Losing my appartement right now >No money, I get minus 350 euro every month on top of my unemployement that's like 300 a month to survive >About to couchsurf at my 3 friends tiny appartement until I can rent a new appartement. I live in France, in the middle of Paris, is this what it's gonna be like from now on? No social net whatsoever and no help from the state? I feel like a deadman walking worst is I never even got to have fun and be happy, except for the rape I'm still an incel virgin that can't even talk to women. My life is over right? I have absolutely nothing to look forward too I just spend everyday sobbing and smoking cigarette butts. I'll never get a gf, I'll never get to be unemployed either because I'll have nowhere to go too, feels like I'm living life on nightmare difficulty. Any tips? Or am I just fuarrrked for life?

france is still easy mode be a deadbeat only until you feel so much disgust for yourself you can't blame anyone else. then get a job and slowly learn to love yourself. writing about your experiences or putting them into art might help too, bored voyeurs are willing to pay so just let em

Go into IT (get online certifications) and find a hobby that forces you to interact with people in real life.

>>91744 My hobby is film making, I got some friends from film school but that's it, no gf or anything, I'm not even ugly just shy and traumatised, can't even have sex cause of panic attacks. I feel so lonely, I'm ashamed around my friends because of the 2 month long psychosis and the fact that they're gonna have to house me and feed me. Ive been wondering whether I should drop those friends or not, they are my only lifeline and I spent my early 20s doing indie films with them but they witnessed me have voices in my head for 2 months. Like I have no choice in the moment but should I just drop them once I'm back on my feet? I dont know if they respect me since I'm so weird and crazy The only things I even enjoy anymore is smoking weed and cigarettes but I'm too broke for that and I quit and now there's literaly nothing enjoyable in my life anymore. I'm losing it. >>91744 I think I'm gonna get a bullshit reception job first then try and get all those certifications, seems like a good plan to increase my income while still being a lazy bum at work

That's messed up. I assume you get the RSA already (300+350=750€ sounds about right). If I were you, I would move away from Paris. That place eats people, and it isn't like you can afford rent anyway. Do you have friends elsewhere in France? Who do you owe that debt to? Assuming it's from a "reputable place", I don't think you should worry about it until you've sorted your situation out. They can't force you to pay if you can't afford to.

>>91747 I get full unemployement so it's that minus 350 euros every month to repay the debt I owe the bank. I dont have a car and I really like Paris all my friends are there, I always worked in Paris should I work in the suburbs? Or should I get myself a place there and either bike or train to work?

>>91746 you shouldn't drop those friends. people gotta know you eventually but you shouldn't let them feed you either. don't spend your money on weed

>>91749 >you shouldn't let them feed you either. I dont have a choice at the moment, the debt barely leaves me enough to last 2 weeks

>>91748 If all your friends are in Paris, you don't really get a choice to leave. Stay close to them, they are the most valuable thing you can have. 300€ is 10€ per day, that's enough for food for one person if you buy raw ingredients (outside Paris at least, it probably isn't as comfortable in Paris). You can get cheap produces (sometimes meat and fish too) if you go to markets just before they close. As the other lain said, try not to be a dead weight on your friends. It's important to give a little, even if necessity has you taking more than you give. Even with very little money you can contribute to the economies of the "household" by hunting bargains and scavenging a bit.

>>91751 Wouldnt focusing on finding a job and letting friends use my money for food like once every two meals be more effective? I have one friend outside Paris in the suburbs near Paris maybe I'll find a job there then move, or should I get a job in Paris and deal with an hour of train every morning? I know this might sound stupid but I dont trust myself with important soykaf like this because I just got out if psychosis and my brain is still fuarrrked. I dont know how to budget properly and be good with money and would like to learn that quickly.

>be a retarded 4channer >farm for attention wiped my ass with your thread, thanks for being of so much use

why the fuarrrk do you have an apartment ? just live in parents basement and buy things that you can sell afterwards in order to build wealth of gov.

>>91753 My life is a nightmare and I'm looking for practical advice how is that farming for attention? >>91754 Both my parents are pedophiles and me and my brother reported them to the police

>>91755 >My life is a nightmare and I'm looking for practical advice how is that farming for attention? in my experience you're a typical imbecile gathering attention by spewing a lot of very sour soykaf. if your life is a nightmare most likely you're just being punished by god almighty

living with friends is good if you can you need to not break down like that, if you just want stable life you need to get together enough money to live even if both parents are crazy terrible people, if its a choice between that and being broke homeless jobless loser, I dont think the choice is clear at the very least brother's "flashbacks" seem like unreliable source if you're talking about walling your dad, who sounds like you thought was OK before this flashback, out of your life forever. Sounds like your entire family is a bit crazy, don't write dad off so easily being an artist is as far as I can tell not a great way to have a stable life/regular income. consider looking at something that could be better paid. I know you're european but even still programmers get decent salaries, and if you're here theres a good chance you can be an adequate programmer good luck lain

>>91742 >Mom is a incestuous pedophile was she hot at least?

>>91744 >>91757 I should get another job first like grocery store right? I dont have 6 months to become an it guy or a programmer I'm homeless in 2 weeks

>>91761 sure get a job at grocery store or anything but keep your eye on moving up/securing your position otherwise. Paycheck to paycheck is not a good way to live. desperate times call for desperate actions, stabilize your situation and then improve upon it.

>>91762 Yeah but ain't I supposed to study? Like go to uni for it or something? Or can I do online certifications and get a job through that?

>>91759 >was she hot at least?

>>91763 well get your life stable first and focus on keeping it stable. If you're good in groceryland maybe that's even a better career choice for you, keep your options open. IDK how things are now for programmers but it is a field where you can be self taught, if you're the sort of person who is actually good that way. You should learn, get a good github profile, make friends at your local hackspaces or other places and keep your feelers out for jobs, if you want to slide into tech/engineering stuff.

>>91763 To uni? For art? Even Goebelins is now teaching how to proompt Midjourney and Davinci. Grind during the day and paint during the night is the soykaf kind of fate this affliction holds for you. Work what you have to work and carve out the time for your goals that you can. Your situation sounds rough but hang in there and try to hold onto the small joys in life.

>>91765 I'll try and get a quiet receptionnist job so I can learn programmer online during work hours. How much time will this take? Can I actually land a job with only online certifications?

>>91774 Online certifications aren't worth much. It's a portfolio you need.

>>91742 Consider visiting a therapist or psychiatrist. There might be govt subsidized / free facilities where you live.

>>91777 I'm lost and dont know anything about being a programmer, could you spoonfed me exactly what I need to do to actually land a job as a programmer please? Like what online certifications/github project do I need and do I need to do anything else?

>>91779 Webdev is the easiest route. The 2nd easiest route is business CRUD apps that are written in Java/C# + SQL. You need to look at actual job listing to determine which is the better choice. Resources If you haven't programmed before, you should start with basic HTML + CSS at https://www.w3schools.com/html/ Then you can continue with... >Java: https://java-programming.mooc.fi + official Java docs >WebDev: https://www.theodinproject.com + https://fullstackopen.com/en/ >SQL: https://www.sqlzoo.net/wiki/SQL_Tutorial You can start with basic Project Euler/Leetcode/Exercism problems. Then you can continue by making online chat, textboard/discussion forum or prototype of online store. I suggest that you learn basic data-structures and algorithms, too, but I have no idea where to learn them online. Also, you also need to learn basics of Git once you know how to program. You should learn Git before you start developing your own small projects. >https://www.atlassian.com/git

>>91742 I personally learned to program with https://www.france-ioi.org/algo/chapters.php. We also have this school in Paris. https://42.fr I do not know how it works, I just heard its name when I was still in highschool. If that can help, it is for the best. >>Ive been wondering whether I should drop those friends or no Why would you want to ditch them ? Try to get your soykaf together, and let them know that you appreciate their help. Gratitude is something forgotten nowadays. If you can not help with money, try to see what you can do to make their life easier. As for your monetary situation, food situation, have you try going to Les restos du coeur or that kind of association ? I know it is hard to see yourself in need, but things are the way they are. Yes, things are cheaper outside of Paris (not by much if you stay in Ile-De-France). Plus you might end up in a dangerous place as well, if you do not know the district and its surrounding. And try to get rid of smoking, it costs, and it ruins your health.

Quick update I'm going to work at a hotel in the mountains for 2 months this way I wont be couch surfing this summer. I'm gonna start learning code so correct me if I'm wrong learning html css java fullstack and making a decent github portfolio is the bare minimum to get hired as a junior programmer right? I think I can do all that in around 6 months imo. I still feel like soykaf all the time though, I always thought people saw me as a retarded incel and this recently changed to people seeing me as a tortured artist. Which was always the case even before the bullshit people saw me as lil van gogh I just didn't notice and though I was the local retard people made fun of, low self esteem really fuarrrks up your mind and the way you perceive relationships I guess.

>>91892 A couple thoughts: 1. Make sure you know Java and JavaScript are very different and largely unrelated. 2. HTML and CSS are big. Don't plan on learning every detail. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. Good luck.

>>91894 so do I just complete the online course or should I write everything down on paper?

>>91895 first of all learn to not need so much handholding. second do whichever best gets you to learn the material effectively. If you're not sure what strategy, try a few and then consider. imho its easy enough to just dive into programming that you probably don't need to write much in a notebook, but keeping track of good tricks or things might be useful to have on paper.

>>91892 Looks like a good plan. Good luck.

>>91892 If what you wrote is true and you've found a job, this random person from another corner of the world is proud of you.

Thanks for the help everyone, I just gave back the keys to the appartment and I am leaving tommorow to work at a hotel in the mountains of rhone alpes for 2 months. Then when I get back I'm gonna try to find a comfy bullshit receptionnist job where I have enough free time to learn programming on my own, gonna couch surf until I can rent a place and that's the plan basically, once I'm set on programming I'll just do a paid internship for a year I think because I'm not sure I can land an IT or programmer job with only online certifications. Quick question is programmer a job where I can loaf around and get like a few hours of me time at work to do creative writing? Thanks for all the helpful advice, couldn't have made it without you guys, things are tense with my friends because everything is going fast and I'm fuarrrking up every step, I don't want them babbying me but it is what it is. If anyone else has any advice, anything helps, I'm still completely clueless.

>>91948 Good for you OP. >creative writing? Not really, especially as a junior, slacking of will be look down upon. People will depend on your work and expect you to the the tasks done, then again as a junior it's expected that you're still learning. I recommend you go visit some hackerspace (https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/List_of_Hacker_Spaces) once you're back in Paris by the way. It's a good way to find community, connection with your computer and other nerdy interests and learn more. And if you think about it in the strategic way it can also help you get a job. Also I don't know if that's a thing for you but the free party scene could be interesting to you, free as in freedom parties, banging beats that help soothe the pain. Good to find community as well, and there's a really big scene in Rhone-Alpes. I feel like you shouldn't judge yourself if you're struggling and depending on your friends or the state. You're just living the one life you have and doing your best. Good luck! You can do it, even if you encounter some roadblocks.

>>91742 youre european just go to a country with more welfare

Just got fired on my first day because they expected more guest at the hotel, literally lost the remaining money I had for the trip to my job. Did a suicide attempt as soon as I got home, friends are getting sick of me and soon I'll have no place to go. It's over. >>91949 I want a job where I can work on my creative writing, they call it planque in france, basically a job where you get free computer time for multiple hours a day, hence why I like front desk receptionnist in companies, lawyer firms and tech firms. If programmer isn't it is IT something like this?

>>92078 >is IT something like this? That highly depends on the company. In some places you can automate everything away, but in other places you are going to explain Pierre (63 years old) how to print a file 20 times a day and change the batteries in the mouse of the CTO because she can't be arsed, even though the batteries are stored next to her office. I had a job like the one you described in a recording studio. On some days I had nothing to do at all, but because we were having guests I had to sit infront of my computer and look busy for 9 hours.

>>92078 had internship it support at large company, was 90% do nothing til someone calls and then you go on expedition to fix their pc/printer. Sometimes involves carrying new pc/monitor to them which was a bit annoying because the distance wasn't short as it was a larger building complex. That aside i think you can demand money from your failed hotel job since the failure is on their side. Talk with job center & labor lawyers (the free ones). And dont stop on the first guy who says no since you might hit someone who is clueless / doesn't care.

still homeless, can't find a job, the realisation that I'll never ever have consensual sex is hitting me hard. I'm about to turn 26 and despite what my friends tell me I know getting molested is a huge red flag, no women wants a man who gets traumatic flashbacks during sex. I fuarrrked up my youth, the time where I'm supposed to have fun and experience love is gone I'll never ever get to feel happy. I haven't smiled in months I know it's over. I am very strongly considering suicide, I think about ending my life every day. Just saying this soykaf to vent cause I know there's no solution, all my friends say soykaf like I just need to get out there and be confident, yet I've never been on a single date. I'm tired, this life isn't worth living.

>>92752 >I'm about to turn 26 I am much older than that. It never gets hopeless. One wishes for a sense that it is over, but i think one never truly believes it. It is not going to get easy. Notions just change. There is always an abrasive image of fulfillment; of order, of the "normal, happy thing to do". The orthogonal of one's course, regardless of its present value.

>>92753 Ironically, hope may be the most attractive trait. Hope, positivity, action, confidence. Energy. People like energy and leadership. I wish I could tell myself that there is no hope, but it is simply not true. I am not saying it out of self-orientation, but out of bare probability. There is a future in which I am energeric and agentic, and there infuriatingly is no biological, physical barrier between it and now I could lean on. I hope you do not mind me saying this in your thread.

>>92753 >>92754 objectively speaking no women wants a guy with such heavy baggage, even deepseek told me I'll be happier if I give up on women. Maybe if I was rich or insanely attractive but I'm a homeless 6/10. A life devoid of love isn't worth living.

>>92793 >objectively speaking Objectively speaking, nothing is impossible. I am not telling this to raise your spirits. I know that spirit-raising may just result in prolongation of misery. (Or in happiness.) I am just telling you that it may be irrational to count on your brain being irrational. It may be irrational to count on it continuing to tell you, convince you, that all hope is lost. But then, you said you had a suicide attempt. So maybe you have, in fast, lost all hope. Or maybe not. Attempts fail for shortage of resolve, or by random chance.

sounds about 25, unfortunately. Id like to say minus all the rape but I cant necessarily. If youd had a girlfriend right about now would be when maybe you lose her too which i understand the whole better to have loved and lost than never loved but it certainly wouldnt feel that way if you also had that going on. This is nightmare difficulty but you arent fuarrrked for life, people live through this with no friends to couchsurf (even if maybe you sort of hate those friends). Im not just saying you arent fuarrrked for life but you also have to approach this all as if you arent. The turn your misery into motivation thing always confounded me like what the fuarrrk are you talking about but I can say its true. Its not really about abstractly doing that its about eliminating the thoughts that lead nowhere like "im fuarrrked" and understanding they wont help and moving to the next one until you arrive at some thought you can do something about and focusing on it as if its the only tangible real thing that could help. Hopefully its something productive and not like "wait I could rob my friends" but whatever keeps you alive and you will have plenty of time for regrets later. It will honestly feel more painful to think you arent fuarrrked, it will cause you more mental stress to peruse all these options which dont sound as good and grand as "i am fuarrrked", theres a kind of existential purpose or reasoning in that kind of thinking whereas the other kind that can help says there is no reason this is happening to you unfortunately. If you give it time and reject the "i am fuarrrked" thoughts you will come up with something through many sleepless nights and tears and intense emotional pain, and even if you dont that pain cant sustain forever. When I had apathetic flat depression I had no drive to do anything, after a breakup, a close friend being diagnosed with terminal cancer, and the loss of another friend I felt my first intense feelings in years and sobbed for a week and was more suicidal than in thr past 3 years id been in this apathetic state. But for the first time with my head screwed on right I was able to just sit with it not drown it out and focus on what I can do to simultaneously distract and help myself. Life is like kicking dead whales down the beach more than it did before but I can hardly remember my last 3 years of being "fine" and everything right now is filled with intense feelings and meanings. I cry every night but I dont know or like the alternative, I wish happiness was what came back first but I seem to only be driven out of my golem like state in moments like you describe. Occasionally I still wish things were like before, but when I think about dying I just know il look back on this moment more than the others. That might not be any comfort to you in this moment at all, you are going through a pile on of some unprecedented horrors. I can only hope I dont sound like an asshole saying though that all you have to do is live and not drown (all) of it out with alcohol or substances or a codependent relationship etc. A little bit here and there as needed if your thinking you really are about to do something bad to yourself. If you can just live through it there will come a day when you get nostalgic about this time and then wish you never got nostalgic about it and curse yourself when life throws you through the ringer again.

Do you have a science degree, >>92804? And which way did the cause flow? What caused your attitude transformation? What can pain cause? It cannot cause money. Or understanding. It can just spin the vector around, like a clock hand, not increase it. Your worst state, was it DIFFERENT from your present state? Or does it just FEEL it was? Did you actually DO less, back then? Make fewer things, fewer conclusions, fewer transformations? Or do you just feel that it had less agency? If I turned my life around, would it BE different? Or would it just be a sameness spun 180 degrees?

>>92809 those are great valid questions can answer all of them totally honestly sorry about to copypaste greentext this soykaf to be thorough. >Do you have a science degree Almost, was comp sci for two years before switching to design and a design degree is what I ended up with >And which way did the cause flow? What caused your attitude transformation? After a failed relationship with someone I really loved I decided id be perfectly rational. I have always been averse to that sort of thinking but really had never truly tried it. This landed me in a 5 year relationship with someone I definitely loved but never loved like that and an okay job dog handling job. I just kept telling myself love is in the mind and all will be okay and in my control if I think through it rationally and within two years I became a golem is what id call it. Around a year and a half ago I restarted my schooling because everyday I would crash out over our place being a mess I had to clean or some managerial task I had to do, to her credit my girlfriend made more than me but we paid the same for everything and me even more sometimes (many times) she spent a lot on concerts and knick knacks. This made me realize I needed something to work towards. At school I met someone I really loved who I knew it wouldnt work out with, but it didnt matter the fact that I still could really love someone meant my life had been a lie. Im very love and person motivated because of things in my past so take it as you will, I think this could be other things for others. Again I was never under any delusion of "running away" with this other person I knew from like a few weeks of us talking it wasnt that, it was purely that something made me feel when I hadnt prior thinking id "grown" and evolved beyond whims and random emotions. Its worth noting to a bit prior to all this id also started therapy at a research clinic, it was purely talk therapy no medication no even dbt or cbt, targeted around that I "wanted to feel things again". What can pain cause? Pain can make you kill yourself directly or indirectly, but my take right now is it exists regardless of whether you acknowledge it. Not acknowledging it can spare you from suicidality, but it can also make you a living dead. Its a hard and nuanced thing, one person can recognize the pain and decide they should kill themselves and another can recognize the pain and come up with a beautiful solution. That can be the same person at different stages of their life, there could be a time again when I too "cant take the pain" and all I can think about is ending it. However without feeling the pain both doors are closed and you are stuck in that living death. So this is why I said if you are at a point where you just need something to alleviate the pain do it, I cant say not to do that when I did it for so long and its what leads me to a place where I can live with the pain. Ideally though the pain informs what you want to avoid in a meaningful way. Maybe you are upset the one you are obsessed with isnt so obsessed with you, the meaningful answer is you want someone to truly see you and validate you and you feel this person does but they dont have to be the only one. I think this motivates some to chase stardom for example, but more reasonably it may lead you to realize you arent the introvert you thought you were and you actually love beinh surrounded by people and always meeting new people for the chance of that again. And whatever shame or guilt over a failed interaction or relationship honestly pales in comparison to the pain of not feeling seen. The depressive and totally valid way to interpret this pain is "no one will ever truly see me" or "the one who saw me rejected me" but it can also be turned into an insatiable drive to interact with others. It wont always there is a myriad of mental paths you take with that pain, but it CAN be what you want it to be with enough finesse. This is so long winded I hope you get what im getting at. The pains just a feeling, allowed to be felt strongly it can motivate a lot. Whether that motivates you to kill yourself or take on a whole new motivation in life depends a lot on your experiences, the more experiences the better. Thats why ultimately I agree with whatever gets you through the day. I dont want to say "just think of the pain differently" to someone whos only experience of feeling such an intense pain is spiraling into depression all I can say is same ive been there, there is alternatives to that but I understand doing what you have to do. >It cannot cause money. Or understanding. I think it can cause understanding but yeah theres no guarantee it causes money. >It can just spin the vector around, like a clock hand, not increase it. I get the sentiment here and yes. There is others who lived as I did for my 5 years of apathy and they lived 40 of those years and their life is a great triumph. But like anyone comparing their lot to others I dont envy it, I think you miss out on a lot. But who cares if you dont know you ever missed out I guess right? >Your worst state, was it DIFFERENT from your present state? Or does it just FEEL it was? It is materially different but actually more importantly I feel its different is my take. There is a lot of material changes in me and actually some are for the worse by any standard. Some are materially better. Im less stable, im more fit I lost 40 pounds, im losing some very stable relationships and making some ones I like more but are very up in the air. Im more concerned about school and applying to more ambitious jobs in my (soykaf) field but currently am making less money. Going back to your spin in circles comment its certainly a give and take with everything and there is no supreme way of existing overall but there probably is for you specifically. One you gel with the most, we rotate around a wheel sometimes hitting the same spot twice till we decide I guess. >Did you actually DO less, back then? This is a funny one, in the 5 years of my apathetic state yeah id say I did. However when I was in that state id often bemoan my pre that state and think god I had nothing together. However I think even a year or two in to this apathetic depression I realized I was doing a lot less at that moment than I was in the state I was in prior where I thought I was volatile and not reliable and cringe and whatever else. I certainly started doing a lot more I could put on a resume or write down to you a year or so ago when this finally really sank in. I guess what im saying is I know what you are getting at and that was exactly the question I asked myself 3 or so years ago, that while everyone around me said I seemed to be doing well and "happier" I wasnt actually doing more than I did as an unstable teen to young adult and was in fact doing less. I had more discipline and thats stuck but its useless without a drive to anything. >Make fewer things, fewer conclusions, fewer transformations? Yes I was stagnant for 5 years. I dont remember it well and thats one of my biggest tells is ive had other periods of my life I just dont remember well because it was same day in day out. >Or do you just feel that it had less agency? That was a factor for sure but even if thats all it felt like, if thats important to you it will bug you when you dont have it. >If I turned my life around, would it BE different? Or would it just be a sameness spun 180 degrees? Depends on how you look at it I suppose. You can kind of from the outside look at anyone and see their life as if they just rotate around the same axis and all their big changes dont mean much. Because they do, no one completely reforms themselves. Even someone who turned into a paranoid schizophrenic their close friends and family could probably kind of form an understanding of why their delusions are targetted in this or that direction or point to character traits and things that never changed. You can focus on those things or not, there is things that will forever be in your blindspots or just seem way too extreme to change. Im pretty open minded about changing anything but there is things even being aware of wont make them budge, and those are as unchangeable as the external world to me. Ultimately if it feels different it is different, you can try to look at yourself with an external pair of eyes but you will never have the grasp of yourself some guy that can reduce you down to just the things you cant seem to shake does. You really will only ever have changing axioms and feelings about your behaviours and specifically the feelings are going to be the only thing to motivate some kind of actual change. The changing axioms might produce a changed feeling of course, but only when what you are doing or arent doing really feels wrong to where its causing you pain or hopefully joy where it wasnt before will you start to change maybe. Again its a maybe but its a definite no if you dont even feel it because you drink it away or redirect it into some what can I do or its so and sos fault emotional suppression box.

>>92813 Broad comments first, replies to actual reading of your letter later. ---- A thing I have been grappling with forever is that true causes are not the ones we are aware of. Classic example: effort vs talent. "I did it because I worked hard." While neurologically measured -- in stress or frustration or perseverance hormones or whatever -- the "hard workers" never stood in the vicinity of effort -- just blazed through tests -- whereas those who did give it, and failed anyway, are those whom the achievers admonish as lazy. Another example: indeed, happiness and outcomes. Depressed, hopeless people achieving more than happy, comfortable people. Because productivity does not care about emotion. Or even about hope. A self-hating, self-defeating person may achieve more than a confident person -- more will seep through the former's pores than will flow from the latter's fully open self. And, wrongful attribution. To choice; effort; hope. True workers are causators, not correlators. I have been happy, I have been hopeless, and never did I seem to achieve a lot. So which is the truer state? Shall not my self-estem correspond to true value, as externally measured? ---- >evolved beyond whims and random emotions Indeed, "are cultivated feelings true?" A valid question. Maybe no, but maybe it does not matter. >but it can also make you a living dead Definitely. Measure of life is reactivity and changing. Yesterday, I ventured outside /hum/ and saw a poster dismiss the concept of "life" as nothing more but a measure of complexity, more or less. Such has become my stance too. It is definitely possible to die alive, when you cut yourself off of things. And just as biological life, it may turn out to be irreversible. Or not. >However without feeling the pain both doors are closed I see. True. Very well put. I have at times been wondering whether not to begin to live, love perhaps, just to hurt again, hoping it will move me to an end. A biological one. Turns out there are pains of action and of inaction alike. >you feel this person does but they dont have to be the only one Definitely. This is just unhappiness-sorting; comparing the unhappiness of letting go, of jumping into the feared unknown, of embracing inconsistency / striking out one's past identities, of facing the regret of sunken costs, of potential that will continue to be wasted, of unexperienced things. A comparison that's ongoing, and inevitable even while it is modifiable. >it may lead you to realize you arent the introvert you thought you were and you actually love beinh surrounded by people and always meeting new people for the chance of that again. Very straightforwardly said, admirably openly. Honest. >The depressive and totally valid way to interpret this pain is "no one will ever truly see me" or "the one who saw me rejected me" Certainly, valid. I wonder, do you -- excuse this overture -- do you mean this in a cookie-cutter therapeutic "you feelings are valid" way, or do you mean it, uh, literally? As in, that it is intellectually correct, nothing-wrong-with-it, to embrace, employ, ideas such as "never" or "truly"? I would agree that it is; so long as one realizes that those are just models, constructions, of oneself one may choose to live by. >The pains just a feeling, allowed to be felt strongly it can motivate a lot. I suppose. Thank you. Yes. One's imaginations of the future may land before the "I can't let that happen, come to pass" threshold, or beyond it (resulting in inaction). But, yes, I agree with approaching one's own evolved "emotional potentials", "charges", as motivators to unlock. It is instrumental. Leveraging one's own pain? How about leveraging love? Or anything else? But, yea, valid. Who's to say it's not. >I understand doing what you have to do. You definitely do sound like you do. Pleasure to read you. Long time I read something as long as your post. But I owed you that. ---- >I think it can cause understanding but yeah theres no guarantee it causes money. Ah, understanding of oneself, for all its... arguable... use, I do not find understanding. It's like understanding grammar as a concept. Understanding syntax doesn't make you know any one language, much less have things to say in one. I understand myself reasonably, as a basic thinker / judger, but I do not think I will ever have marketable skills (even 2020-marketable, much less 2025), or be socially competent. Or morally... adequate. >But who cares if you dont know you ever missed out I guess right? Right. A case for not showing socially impaired people what they miss on? >there is no supreme way of existing Nice. >Im pretty open minded about changing anything but there is things even being aware of wont make them budge, and those are as unchangeable as the external world to me. Yea. No distinction between internal and external world anyway; same matter here and there. My focus with that question was, uh, output. Intellectual, but also emotional. How much "can" I change? How much can I create, how much emotion can I give, how much moral rightness and action and intervention can I muster? This is the central question. Over the years, I've settled on statistics as an answer. Approach encapsulation: "of X people saying 'I shall change my life', an amount Y of change may be expected, on average". Externalization of judgement, with ongoing state-corrections for inflows of motivation of self-insight ("how about now, now that I am aware of... this and that"), accounting for impermanence (thoughts and their impacts fading away). A calculation, incl. meta. >specifically the feelings are going to be the only thing to motivate some kind of actual change. For sure. (Most) humans' feelings involve communication. The idea of doing, say, research for research's sake, not caring if it reaches anyone, is almost unthinkable. >only when what you are doing or arent doing really feels wrong to where its causing you pain or hopefully joy Right. Thoughts are very weak motivators; like strong-force vs weak-force in physics or such. >emotional suppression box. Neat. And what an abrupt, utterly selfless ending of your post, too. ---- What can I say. I did not expect or deserve such a reply, considering the manifest hostility of my approach of you. You seem very well-rounded, in a very "immediate" sense, of keeping a sound eye on yourself. And I'd never be able to write as coherently. And you've covered a massive terrain effortlessly. Carry on. Suppose you'll change some lives on your way. ---- >sorry about to copypaste greentext this That frowned upon around these parts?

>>92814 Even adopting certain mental models, of identity and value, may incur pain. That is a fact. Putting on a mental model may burn as putting on a hot piece of garnment.

>>92815 And just as hotness is a heat flow causing equalization, perhaps mental-hotness reflects a flow too, across the "right" and the "wrong" position. Maybe even actual; not figurative. An electric one.

>>92814 I didnt feel it was too hostile because I think about a lot of the same. No time to respond to everything but especially the kind of overall theme of the stories we tell ourselves and others around our efforts and changes is something I think about a lot. I have a close friend with seemingly endless "drive" who is a real "hard worker". He is pretty open with me, ive prodded him endlessly about it trying to figure out what hes doing different. But the truth is he blazed through tests as a kid and continues to blaze through lifes tests as an adult. At the very least he cant help it, im sure there is people out there with just great discipline and willpower but what I find in this friend and some others is that its more like they cant help it. He grew up in a hoarder house so his house now is always meticulously clean because the minute a pile of something appears he panics about it downspiraling into mountains of boxes. He forgets to eat and drink and sleep because hes just so engrossed in what hes doing he doesnt want to stop, hes completely sober but its like hes on meth all the time just in regards to that. Also what that interest is in can just as easily be a video game as it could be his field of engineering, and he will go to tournaments and try to compete and all of that. Sometimes what hes doing seems to me like a huge waste of time but he doesnt have that filter it seems like or voice that kicks in and says that. Something he agreed with though and you might have a sense of as well is that for better or worse I think we dont get to choose our drives. I am heavily driven by sadness and loneliness, and I guess I sort of was speaking myself in my post but it seems one pointedly directed to meeting people and talking to people and being around people. When I try to avoid that fact or neglect it I do become intensely undriven and "unproductive". There is a bunch of tangential things im driven to do but all for the purpose of "making sure im not leaning too hard on xyz person" or "having things going on in my life I can introduce others to" . Whole periods of my life I ignored this because maybe id internalized I was the weird kid and weird kids do science and read books, or because I had that girlfriend for awhile and it was time for the domestic life of going out less and being responsible and only giving her my attention. No matter how I spin around the wheel the one thing that doesnt change for me, as much as I want to be an independent person who doesnt need anyone, is that I do need other people. And that also without that kind of permanent background sadness I dont meet people or get jobs or go take classes again or work out or go on dates or all of these things that alleviate it. It would be lovely to be motivated by an intense joy for these things but for now at least (i hold out hope) I am driven to just build whatever network I can to ensure I never get too sad or too alone. Il never be the one who does a perfect job because im motivated by some grand fear of failure or not doing things perfectly, I can try to transform my fear of being alone into that by thinking people wont love me if im not perfect, but I sort of have tried that and it doesnt seem to stick the same. Maybe this is kind of lame but I was reading some interview with sufjan stevens about carrie and lowell, the album he made after his mom died who sort of abandoned him as a kid and was kind of abusive. People love the album but he said he didnt like it because he was trying to find closure for that empty feeling his moms death produced and that this was in his mind an impossible and stupid task. That his thoughts now are the voids life leaves in us are just something you learn to live with, that there is no aha moment of producing some perfect communication of our state and being made whole again. He subsequently went on to make a series of more experimental albums with no vocals at all, the sort of things youd assume were made by someone who is just really driven by some intense passion and dedication to music. Which im sure they also are, but my point is without the context of this interview it surely would look as if he made this grieving album and had his aha moment and feeling joy for life again had all this drive for non wallowing musical explorations. When if you take him at his word (I do) it was the exact opposite, only after realizing the hole inside of him existed long before his moms death back when she first abandoned them and there was nothing he could do about it, that he would hold on to that abandonment and need to be seen forever, could he without distraction seem to focus himself. I have some ideas about why and how trying to smother whatever voids life left you or I with relates to a lack of achievment or maybe better said a lack of recognition of your own achievments but I sort of want to leave this dumb anecdote to speak on its own. I guess il also say that what others would say I have achieved would probably baffle me because of the way in which im directed. I would say my greatest achievments are things like being able to make and keep friends as an almost 30 year old, leaving home at 18 when I thought for sure id end up a basement dwelling neet for life who maybe even would go crazy, a few specific friends im particularly proud to have in my life if I could id point to them and say the fact they keep close to me is my achievment. Its no wonder in my opinion im not working some amazing high paying design job, because I actually put a considerable amount of effort into the things mentioned above. Its not worth anything, to many they would be like "thats not supposed to take effort it just happens" (although less are saying that as we get older) but it did for me and its where I sunk my time because I wasnt socialized well as a child and its where my stray thoughts rotated around and racked themselves until very recently when they have finally been able to settle on "we will probably keep obsessing over other people no matter what". Im not saying you secretly also have some thing like this and your lack of effort or drive is actually you just not recognizing your efforts, just because I dont want to presume to know you not because I wouldnt believe it. Rather its possible (not saying it must be) that the unflinching parts of you desire to move towards something you have already ruled out as a waste of time or not in your control. There is some feeling I want to recapture, I know I cant and that it isnt possible, and it brings a lot of suffering to try and almost catch it for a second only to lose it again or not have it match the intensity of my emotions as a child. It would be reasonable to say im only hurting myself and its a waste of time, but then I dont have anything to move towards because ive dismissed my sort of ultimate primordial feeling, what moves me more than any other. If that isnt a good enough reason to keep "working", if it isnt possible to reach again in its shadow, then what is there to say for all these lesser feelings that pale in comparison. And I think that is when I cascade into apathy i ranted anyways sorry, in the time it took to write this I could have responded to each of your things but the first two paragraphs you posted I especially resonated with. Also nothing wrong with the green text reply I just always think at a glance it does look argumentative or something. Probably just my association with it.

>>92819 >Sometimes what hes doing seems to me like a huge waste of time Yes. Today I saw a vid from a speedcubing champtionship. I wondered, if those kids are so sharp with algorithms, why won't they go into abstract algebra or something. Or whatever field of math rubik cubes fall into. But then again, diversity of interests is pure evolution. A pure population of abstractors wouldn't last, and neither would one of operators. >well is that for better or worse I think we dont get to choose our drives. Absolutely. A shade better formulation is, attribution of things (e.g. drives) to things themselves (e.g. to agency) is not explanatory. It yields no info. This happens to correspond to the thing above -- I am replying to your letter as I read it -- there must be an evolutionary mix of explainers and of doers within us. Pure explanation is as useless as pure action. >I am heavily driven by sadness and loneliness Aww. Don't be. You must be a nice person to talk to. >neglect it I do become intensely undriven and "unproductive". Yes. Whenever I used to refer to myself as an ESFP -- MBTI memehood notwithstanding -- it was obviously a contrarian joke on my part on online slant towards Ixxx's and INTJ's in particular. But in honesty, I am extroverted; as I said, you just had me admit it through your own forthcoming. >internalized I was the weird kid and weird kids do science and read books Relatable. With everyone out there doing stem. I have gained a distaste for specific things that I am unsure how far it is natural of me. I've made myself (?) associate music with musictheoretic math; art and ethics with evolutionary benefits. Etc. But, desire for connection, yes, pulses through. And so I do have my escapist animeish franchise of choice (?). >as much as I want to be an independent person who doesnt need anyone Yes. People want to be useful. And it at some point, you consciously recognize that to be useful, you must connect with others. There is no way someone can just shut oneself off and dead-drop math or physics papers into uni departments. Or even longform imageboard posts. >And that also without that kind of permanent background sadness Ah, curious. I see. Well, I don't think it's unique to you. I think you are just unusually honest about yourself. >It would be lovely to be motivated by an intense joy If other people are like me, then everyone has capacity for joy, it just gets suppressed by fear / lack of freedom. Till a point. If you are / keep yourself suppressed for too long, too many years, you begin to "un-die for real"; your nervous system underdevelops (even after childhood), even your range of physical motion, your gait; you dissociate, and every potentiality of "yes -- but" leans more and more into the "but", the "yes, theoretically, I could". You lean into a capacity of the flavor "yes, theoretically, I could have things to say about this topic", but without touching it, figuratively and literally, the theories become too narrow, and even if they remain "true", they become useless. See above point about abstraction. Distancing oneself from the getting-dirty of music as played, art as painted. And -- again -- the theories become stagnant. Utility is gained through interaction. (Social.) Trivial. Goodness, man, your messages are long. But I'll read. Anyway, yes. Creativity is natural. And joy. Just don't (anyone) be afraid. >Il never be the one who does a perfect job because im motivated by some grand fear of failure or not doing things perfectly Hahahah. I love how this sentence came out as if you would be totally fine with it if that WERE your motivation. In fact -- >but I sort of have tried Right. Also >some grand fear of failure That's such a fun, pithy phrase. Love it. > can try to transform my fear of being alone into that by thinking people wont love me if im not perfect Yea, false things like that don't seem to work. >I have some ideas about why and how trying to smother whatever voids life left you or I with relates to a lack of achievment or maybe better said a lack of recognition of your own achievments Tbf I do not follow fully. Not that your point is flawed; just complex; multipart and analogic. I need to reduce it to first-order phenomena. So, you say, tendency to draft narrative forms -- directional graphs, parameters, irreversibilities, weights, whatever -- for one's life. If one defines that trait, one could theorize its consequences. Or correlates. But I am no psychologist. Like I said, I understand "zeroth principles" of psychology, incl. selfviewing; but I am no scientist. Even though I should be (?). I spoke of theories that are true but useless. Metatheories are just that. You will forgive me. At any rate, anecdote was not dumb or lame. But, eh. Closures? Maybe. One fears them. Or just naturally grows attached to the neverclosed. As it is, my pain-avoidance function (since you studied cs) leaves me inacting, doing nothing. Nor do I wish to change it. Even as I am aware that I could / "could" do that. >and its where my stray thoughts rotated around Nice reference to my spin-term, I imagine. >my stray thoughts rotated around and racked themselves until very recently when they have finally been able to settle on "we will probably keep obsessing over other people no matter what". Loving the agency you granted to your thoughts here, not having them be something that you "have". Aligns with my philosophy where I see myself as mere expression of genes & memes. >Im not saying you secretly also have some thing like this and your lack of effort or drive is actually you just not recognizing your efforts I was / am probably just fishing for praise on some level or another. Like I said, I am just a gene expression, and pursuit of praise is a genetic drive. >Rather its possible (not saying it must be) that the unflinching parts of you desire to move towards something you have already ruled out as a waste of time or not in your control. There is some feeling I want to recapture, I know I cant and that it isnt possible, and it brings a lot of suffering to try and almost catch it for a second only to lose it again or not have it match the intensity of my emotions as a child. It would be reasonable to say im only hurting myself and its a waste of time, but then I dont have anything to move towards because ive dismissed my sort of ultimate primordial feeling, what moves me more than any other. If that isnt a good enough reason to keep "working", if it isnt possible to reach again in its shadow, then what is there to say for all these lesser feelings that pale in comparison. And I think that is when I cascade into apathy Maybe. I do not have good memory, as you know. I try to be right, because I have limited... bandwidth. I honestly regret I cannot analyze myself / ourselves with you here. I have barely, by luck really, acquired the viewpoint of looking at myself as a determined evolutonary drive product, a flow of attentions through time. Between hoping to die in my sleep at night and understanding that statistically, everything is going to be okay at day (because I view myself statistically), and in fact enjoying myself routinely, I do not analyze myself much. But, again, your friends surely appreciate you for the lens you are surely lending to them often. >i ranted anyways sorry It's fine. I am sorry for not giving you more (specific) feedback. >I just always think at a glance it does look argumentative or something. It's fine. It's just your paragraphs are daunting for a deparagraphized critter like me. Take care.

>>91742 Maybe join the military? Don't know anything about the french military but here in Canada/US it's an alright last resort, all they really need of you is basic physical and mental fitness. You'll have a roof over your head and food, only real downside I can think of is being locked into the military life for however long the contract is. Sorry about your family, hope you and your siblings do well in spite of soykaf circumstances.

>>91742 Just go to a library, ask for work and housing, follow the steps, and talk to everyone you think is a good person you meet along the way, smiling and trying to leave them with a positive interaction. Iterate with feedback from those people. Right? Isn't that how lives stabilize from crises? Aren't human beings essentially spinning tops?

>>92866 yeah of course I can eventually get a job and a place to stay that's not the issue. I just cant take the loneliness anymore and PTSD is the latest ick. I spent so much effort looksmaxxing to get a date only to find out I get ghosted everytime I mention ptsd and intimacy problems, if you got raped as a kid you're just fuarrrked for life women hate guys with ptsd. I dont want a loveless existence I'd rather die.

>>92869 Maybe it is a sample / population problem. Sounds like you look for girls from general pop. For worse or better, they have their natural reactions, right. If, indeed, you first gain friends, then your friend group is a subpopulation. With measures of -- openness, tolerance, deviance, maturity, indifference, patience, insight, detachment, tacitness, whatever you like -- closer, attuned, to yours. This group of x people has transgroups of x^y yielding more compatible girls. No?

>>92870 I have a friend group a personnality and hobbies and soykaf, I should be able to attract a woman if I didnt have ptsd, the ptsd is what makes them leave. So it's either I do a quick traumadump and they ghost me or I just dont say anything and they get angry when I get a panic attack during sex time and leave. Women dont want someone with such huge baggage, so I'm gonna be alone forever, because of something horrible that happened to me. I'm really starting to resent women because of this, I get that everyone has their preferences but I just put in so much effort only for them to get the ick because I'm a victim. I'm just gonna be alone forever and I don't think that's a life worth living.

>>92871 >So it's either I do a quick traumadump and they ghost me or I just dont say anything and [...] This seems to me to be a rather self-aware example of an either-or thinking. So who am I to object to it. It's your right to not dedicate thinking time (which, to be sure, is finite and precious) to contemplating scenarios where you broach the topic gradually, over minutes or months, via circumlocutions such as "I would not like to proceed fast" or "I have not been one for touch much". Your time, your effort, your judgement of reward versus waste of time.

>>92872 I tried doing that obviously, you just refuse to see my point, being as traumatised as I am is like having a micro dick or being a dwarf or an amputee. You're just out of the dating market because women don't bother with you and that's that.

>>92873 >I tried doing that obviously It's certainly inferrable that you did, but, considering how you had literally said "either traumadump or saying nothing", I shall nonetheless deem your use of "obviously" there a little stretch. Anyway, if it is truly lost for you (or rather, nevertheless, if you truly find it lost), then do cope or die. Again, judgement is yours as for which option you find less painful. I shall not become one to tell you that the vigorousness of your self-negation is a more negative factor, with respect to relationship prospects, than your unhappy experiences. In my view -- in my guess -- people may have a remarkable capacity to accept others' awful pasts. But perhaps those pasts must also be accompanied with something else, too, on the pasthaver's side, and I have no idea how to name that other thing. I dare not.

>>92873 >>92874 But. Just beware, I imagine, of the temptation of extra-destroying your present on the grounds of "it has already been destroyed by my past". I am not saying that it is wrong, as such. Burning bridges -- or declaring the bridges to have been burned -- IS a valid strategy. Just, keep an eye on the consequences of doing it. Or don't.

>>92875 Especially since mental bridges have a fiendish way to rebuild themselves from ashes.

>>91742 Why are you living in this soykafhole? Even the migrants have the Paris syndrome now and it cost a fortune. This is not a place for people, there is only rich people in their almost gated arrondissements, airbnb and public housing. >>92866 There is simply too many people in the waiting list for public housing. If you don't know the people who name who will get what, you won't get anything. That's well spent tax money. If you are in filmaking, pretend to be woke and get pay 5 numbers a ear to produce toutes pour une movies. Or maybe you can work in the technique, as a sound engineer or whatever. You simply need a valuable skill, one way or another you won't survive without one or connections. I would advise against being a code monkey, Indians do it for cheap and AI for cheaper.

>>92877 >There is simply too many people in the waiting list for public housing. If you don't know the people who name who will get what, you won't get anything. Yea, that is why I mentioned smiling. Not that I endorse corruption, even with smiles as a currency. But I do think, guess, that positivity opens many informal, unforeseen doors. Of course, positivity for mere sake of ingress, isn't. Nor do I know if it can be achieved. 'True' being-nice-to-be-around. Maybe not. Or maybe the nastier you have gotten, the nicer you will be if, if, you flip it around. I have been helped / liked by basically strangers before. Nor do / will I know if it is reproducible. But it is a factor for sure. Maybe it was just my looks, or neetful youthful bearing, both of which I have since lost. Or the things I used to (believe good to) say. Who knows.

>>92878 >>92877 I mean, I could, maybe, elaborate on "hard" methods of gaining either physical or psychical competence, but why would I? It's all in ai and google. What matters seems to be not getting disconnected from the main. As you said yourself. And how is that done? Questions? Passion? Seriousness? Inner drive? Egoism? Energetic effort and analysis? Empathy? Attachment to maximization of effect, of change? Or is it senseless, because only I am of the rabble who cannot get valuable skills? On his own? Maybe. Good people do not need other people to learn skills -- do not need others' sparks. But pursue unaffected by solitude. Correct?

>>92869 you need to understand the mind of a normal person they want to feel good. if you don't make them feel good they will leave unless they need something specific from you. like support. most attractive people already have everything but pleasure to fill the gaping hole of loneliness they feel deep inside and try to fill with shallow companionship. to be alone together is still better than being alone, right? at least until it doesn't feel good anymore. don't be too open. try to get used to sex as therapy to overcome your own trauma, if possible. that's kinda what everyone does unless you're transmutating your sexual energy into a way to save the world

>>92880 >don't be too open. try to get used to sex as therapy to overcome your own trauma I cant even have sex, women hate me because of my PTSD. So no consensual sex for me ever, my only experience will be rape, no love no nothing, I'm just gonna die alone. And people blame me for it too, they say women can't possibly be like that and that no women find a traumatic past to be a red flag, but it is the truth, I am doomed to be lonely forever.

>>92924 >I am doomed to be lonely forever. Not forever. Only till you die.

I wonder how OP is doing? Winter is coming, get cozy.

>>94051 >Didnt find a job despite going through a million interviews >Friends are getting sick of me so I'm probably gonna sleep outside soon >Look so ugly some random kids laughed at me and said I look like a pedophile, friends still trying to give me the bluepilled you're not ugly just be confident talk >Cant even go outside anymore without having a panic attack >Psychosis is still there, it's manageable but it makes me so stupid I cannot even say anything anymore because everything that comes out of my mouth is disorganised psycho babble >Little bro has psychosis too now >Bad luck has gotten so noticable some friends are considering finding a witch or a shaman to check me for a curse, we're all atheists that's how bad it is >Cant kill myself because I'm a huge pussy There are some good things in my life rn despite it being a horror show >No debt anymore >All of my friends are addicted to mario kart world, we're all good at the game and have been playing local coop almost everyday >Short film is in post production, it looks awesome way better than expected

And 'cause I perceive my position in the world cruelty as less painful, despite overall similarity, I hereby grant you these bits of attention and support. /////////////////////////////////////////

>>94455 >Didnt find a job despite going through a million interviews Unfunny fact: sometimes, they hire X-1 people while having a budget for X people; then they keep rejecting every candidate for that "number X" position. And then, the middle managers keep whining to their both superiors and subordinates how hard it is to find a good guy to kode on Wednesdays or something so you'll be having an unpaid intern instead or overwork. And in the end, they... well... demand an award for "saving company's money" or some other excuse to get awarded.

>>94457 Here is another possibility: >Investors want to invest in companies that are going to grow >They know a sectret tip: just look at who is hiring. They are the ones who will grow >Now all companies have 1000 open positions listed >People are paid just to have interviews with whoever ask, just to look legit, they are not even told that, they just move the good applications to the next corporate layer which reject everything

small update >Still homeless >Psychosis still there can still hear voices >The walls are so paper thin in the appartments where I'm housed that it's not even voices anymore, friends confirmed the neighbors talk about me >No wonder since I can go into loud paranoid monologues everytime I feel a bit of panic >About to turn 26, only experienced rape, cant have sex cant have a gf, I have premature ejaculation when I jack off no wonder since the walls are paper thin I cant even masturbate in peace, apparently the emdr therapy (which I havent started yet cause it costs a lot) can fix my broken dick but this soykaf takes a full year to work so that's great >Meanwhile my litlle brother experienced worse sexual abuse and can have sex just fine >I'm not kidding about the walls I can hear the neighbors cough >Going outside and taking public transport is it's own kind of hell, people make fun of me due to my weird behavior sometimes in my imagination sometimes not, I also get daily traumatising phone calls >Ever since I got hold of the epstein emails a week ago I've been obsessively reading them, it just makes me more depressed >Went to a prostitute, got retraumatized, left after just a handjob because of flashback and shame >I also get reminded of every cringe thing I ever did every day, I deserve this one I've been self sabotaging and humiliating myself all my life, I get painful spasms when this happens now >About to try hypnosis and maybe magic mushroom before I go back to meds >Heavily suicidal I've lost all hope, I'll always be the incel loser that's just how it is.

I also have a suspicion that this OP >>95438 might be my little sister. The pedo spam of the last few days feels like it's been organised to break the csa victims of this board, feels targeted imo, this board has become a safe space for csa victims to vent and seek advice, I've seen lots of different people sharing similar stories on /hum/ lately. I might just be paranoid though.

>>95576 you deserve redemption. also, try doing EMDR at home with a youtube video, at least it's something. but don't aim at high expenses secondary things when you still haven't achieved a foundational stability (proper housing, not-paper-thin walls, proper nutrition/sleep/exercise). stop jacking off. you don't need a gf, in fact it would be an anchor and you'd make her suffer bc you're not even treating yourself with enough respect yet

>>95576 You are weak and incomplete, and you are pathetic. Yet the government of the society in which you live still deems you fit to receive expensive EMDR therapy. Perhaps the true problem lies in you and at this point better men would have simply done away with their existences. Except you, because you're too much of a failure to achieve even that.

Two options: * The OP has really snitched on his parents to police and caused himself and all his relatives to get into fascists' DNA database. The OP is lucky he was not slaughtered by his relatives for the ultimate betrayal like the one Pavlik Morozov had committed, but orders of magnitude worse. Majority of OP's issues are of his own blame. * The OP is just an incest-dreaming attention-seeking motherfucker who is LARPing about his father being an LGBTQ glitterboy.

>>95593 >ultimate betrayal like the one Pavlik Morozov had committed Very different situation, snitching on pedophile parents for fuarrrking and torturing you and your siblings isnt the same as snitching on your dad because he does forged paperwork. I agree I'm a big retard and I'm the cause of most of my issues, what's a dna database? >>95583 I pay for the emdr therapy it's not covered by healthcare

>>95576 Hey, I hope things work out for you. "Hypnosis" techniques helped me get rid of warts on my hands that I'd had for over five years. The effects of "Hypnosis" can be replicated without any sensation of special trance. You will get 100% of the same effect just with deliberate visualization/concentration. I can dig up the paper if people are interested. Once I let go of "how do I enter a special feeling state, the right special feeling state" I could focus just on the exercise itself.

>>95625 >if people are interested Not OP but I'm always interested in that sort of thing.

>>95627 Okay, I thought that the book was a collection of papers. It looks like it was more of a chapter authored specifically for the book. Find Hypnosis: Developments in Research and New Perspectives by James W. VanStone published by Routledge in 2009. Inside, there is a 16th chapter that focuses on topic: On the Simulating Subject as a Quasi Control Group in Hypnosis Research: What, Why, and How by Martin T. Orne. The papers I saw cited that mention quasi-control are: Orne, M. T. Demand Characteristics and Their Implications for Real Life: The Importance of Quasi-controls. Paper presented at the American Psychological Association Convention, Chicago, September, 1965b. Orne, M. T. Demand Characteristics and the Concept of Quasi-Controls. In R. Rosenthal & R. L. Rosnow (Eds.), _Artifact in Behavioral Research. New York: Academic Press, 1969, 143–179. Another chapter in the same book was not so impactful as to stick in my memory but deals with the same stuff. Chapter 8: Suggested (”Hypnotic”) Behavior: The Trance Paradigm Versus an Alternative Paradigm by Theodore Xenophon Barber

>>95636 Just realized there is a 2017 revised version of this book that claims to have 25% more content. Author on annas archive is Robert shor, still routledge.

After doing some research I'm heavily suspecting that I am a mk ultra monarch slave and all my friends are handlers, is there any way out besides suicide? I dont want to be brazen bull'd. Here's some info that lead me to believe I might be one. >Hung myself by my umbilical cord in the womb >Friends grooming me to be a tv star (acting opportunities seem to come out of nowhere despite being a hikki neet) >amnesia >dissociation (voices) >cptsd >csa victim >Parents obsessed with rango (which is apparently one of the most popular programming tool besides wizard of oz) I've been thinking about this for months and just assumed I'm paranoid, but every time I talk to deepseek and give detailled interactions between me and friends, deepseek tells me the chances of me being surrounded by handlers are larger than just me being paranoid. I've been gaslit so many times in fuarrrked up way, at one point some guy in a suit came into the kebab shop, spit into my food then left getting screamed at by the cook. I didnt react, kept eating assumed I was going crazy cause my friend didnt even react, sometimes they tell me something then I mention it and get hit by the classic "I never said that" "dude you might be a compulsive liar" "you're gaslighting me". I'm fuarrrked aren't I?

>>95818 forgot to mention but parents are millionaires with ties to the army, cybersec and secret services. I also went on weekly trips to disneyland with a nanny at a young age and I have no memory of what happened there,like none yet I've been told I was there sometimes multiple times a week as a kid. How do I escape? I'm fuarrrking dead meat aren't I? please flood spam not today my life is soykaf enough this isnt flood let me post please

>>95820 Do what I do and gaslight them back. It's fun and you get a free ride through life.

>>95821 What do you mean exactly? Like yeah I guess I could just accept my fate but I dont want to be a brainwashed child trafficker I'd rather just be a neet in the middle of nowhere, I'd rather be dead even than be involved in any of this soykaf

>>95818 These LLMs tend to encourage confirmation bias. >>95820 I dont remember most of my childhood because I was not happy and things were quite mundane and still are for me.

As you can see I was stuck in a paranoid episode the last few days, attempted diy emdr znd retraumatised myself. My body is compromised, like I got premature ejaculation has a symptom of ptsd, need to do at least 2 to 4 years of emdr before I can even attempt consensual sex or having a relationship, or else I'll just cum in seconds and get humiliated once again. My little sister might be getting raped right now and police doesnt do soykaf. I'm very suicidal. Why even fuarrrking go on right? It's literaly just gonna keep being a neverending nightmare, one long humiliation ritual, I want out.

Is there NO ONE who's extend a hand to you? It could be someone in the country, not in Paris (or wherever you are). Write down your symptoms and ask them, plead them to please look after you. Even if they don't take you in, please ask them to spend some time with you every other day. And you will get better, anon. You will get better.

I will say this. Having a set schedule that enforces itself upon you. Meaning, you are a being who is constantly being relied on for output. A job, essentially, but, if you are able to implement this idea of 'schedule' where you are to be depended on for a strict range of time, then you will be successful in your endeavors. I relate to you, based off your post. I think that schedule, time spent forming meaningful connections, and output (at a comfortable pace) of product (be it job or art. I recommend just working and experiencing life as a focus.) are paradigm for our survival in the world that we find ourselves in. I highly advise focusing on schedules and bonds with others. I know you said you lost your last job due to psychosis, so I will say that you should start building a schedule that is focused on something you are willing to do and want to continue doing. If you stick to a schedule of things you enjoy (like doing stuff for film making,) you will be able to reach a point where you are able to stay or leave any long term situation under your own human volition. I am sorry if these are things that have been spouted at you before.

>>95938 I'm gonna look for a night shift at a hotel, it's the only job where I dont have to interact with people a lot I can get seems manageable even with voices. I need to get a job now or else my few remaining friends will kick me out. Then I'll learn IT support and make that my day job. Hopefully emdr gets rid of psychosis but who knows, I might have exaggerated the premature ejaculation, i really dont know, i guess i need to try and get laid once but who even would want to have sex with a freak like me idk. I'm entering norwood 3 so I need to act fast before I lose all my hair and become undatable, I mean maybe finasteride will save me who knows, even at norwood 3 my haircut isnt so bad but it wont survive 4. All I want is to have sex with an attractive woman once or twice before I die, but I'm completely derezzed from the current sexual market being a 6/10 with mental issues (I'll be 4/10 or worse with no hair). I'm giving up on my sister, my brother and I made it easy for her to get out, all she has to do is speak to a teacher or walk to the police station yet she doesnt like I get that stockholm is a thing but when your 2 older brothers accuse your parents of child rape and you decide to stay with your parents that's just you being retarded, I've dreamed for an opportunity like this all my life and no one was there to save me, I give her a way out and she calls me an asshole and completely ghosts me. I guess the incels were right women just like being abused.

>>95993 >m giving up on my sister I didnt mean that just frustrated and venting sorry

Ok so a bunch of crazy soykaf happened. >So my parents defense was that I'm a crazy schizo manipulating my little brother right? >Turns out they've been telling all of my family I'm schizo ever since I was 3 >So almost everyone in my family said that I'm schizo and been diagnosed early >Receive medical file way past the legal limit of 3 months, like a full year late after my request >No schizophrenia in the file, I got depression, amnesia, multiple suicide attemps,"felt" persecuted and apparently I was a gifted kid >So there's like 32 pages of observation in the psych ward saying I'm a nice kid with a persecution complex despite the parents acting sus as hell everytime they appear in the files not a single fuarrrking nurse or doctor tell themselves "maybe the kid is actually persecuted?" >Investigation is going at an incredibly, borderline illegal slow pace, I transfered the medical file to the police that proves my parents lied about the whole schizo thing, nothing has been done to free my sister from them so far >Lawyer is genuinely baffled by how badly the case is handled, there's possible corruption in the local police but it's more likely incompetence >Due to me proving my parents lied for the past 20 years to my family, the police and social workers I also have a case for psychological abuse, maybe psychological torture my lawyer says >May or may not be experiencing mild gangstalking, which is what probably triggered the psychosis, my brother is experiencing that as well, either that or we're turning paranoid, but even our lawyers say it's possible they're sending people to demoralise us and influence our decisions and to remain careful about this possibility >Random people called me schizo, laughed at me for no reason and ran into me when holding fragile items like eggs at the store and the gangstalking seemed to ramp up when I got closer to getting my medical file, seem to have abruptly stopped once my close friends noticed I might very well not be capping about the gangstalking >Parents might be spreading false rumors about me in my neighborhood, sending a buddy of mine as a private detective to check soon >Lost almost all of my friends, lost my best friend too, they became assholes acted very hurtful. I was a bum sleeping on the couch for a year but so was most of the friend group at some point, my best friend called me a compulsive liar, manipulator and schizo and threatened to beat me up everyday, he completely snapped because of drug use, I ghost him forever now >My best friend's abuse, the psychosis, and him throwing me out multiple times at 3am so I have no choice but to sleep in the street in the winter led me to a pretty serious suicide attempt, spent an hour on the phone with my little brother crying telling him to be strong then hung myself, some guy from the friend group saved me just in time since I had already lost consciousness, then the "best friend" try to beat me up, he got a good punch in before being stopped by the others, great fuarrrking guy idk he might be having psychosis from smoking too much weed everyday cause wtf >Now I'm looking for a job, psychosis is a bit under control, but I still feel like soykaf everyday, my bro's betrayal was too much and in such a soykafty way too, plus he is still a part of the friend group while I dont go out and kept like 2 friends, I think those 2 friends might ditch me when I find a job and a place. I mean I still get invited to soykaf but I dont want to see that guy obviously so... This life is fuarrrking pure torture goddamn

>>91949 >Also I don't know if that's a thing for you but the free party scene could be interesting to you, free as in freedom parties, banging beats that help soothe the pain. Haven't gone out in the past 2 years and this seems like a good idea right now, the friend housing me at the moment seems to want to bring me to a free party just the two of us. I don't want to look like an idiot and I cant dance for soykaf, what moves should I learn so I don't act like a retard? There's gotta be a few basic ones I can train soI don't look stupid or out of place right?

>>92078 >I want a job where I can work on my creative writing, they call it planque in france, basically a job where you get free computer time for multiple hours a day, hence why I like front desk receptionnist in companies, lawyer firms and tech firms. I just finished working for Amazon in a warehouse, they have security at the front. Duties are pretty simple, stuff like open someones locker if they're locked out, watch the cameras outside, peak of the job is every two+half hours you have to watch people go through metal detectors for ten minutes. Usually, they were just on their phones waiting for something to do. I was envious of their job, the pay would have been as much or only a little less than mine, all they do is sit around and collect money.

>>96679 Yeah I was really fuarrrked up when I typed this, I'm not that good at keeping my composure and having to deal with all this soykaf it's something else. I don't think I've had a single good day for the past 2 years, I don't even think I've ever been actually happy before or you know felt like I belonged anywhere.

>>96682 Sorry, I didn't even see this thread, just that post. I was unreasonably snappy and harsh. I deleted my reply, it was garbage anyway, and I hadn't even noticed that it was your friend's idea, not yours, which changes things. I don't think it's true that chicksas like that. I believe people are attracted to the easygoing kind of person, you know the type that everyone feels immediately comfortable talking with? The widespread idea that aggression is attractive comes from folk beliefs about the primitive life, as in how people imagine primitive life was. Though this analysis can be helpful and may be the closest thing to a source of truth in understanding man, the problems come first from trying to reconstruct a picture of primitive man, and second when applying those ideas to modern man. Cultural factors play an overriding role in sexuality in my opinion. Consider homosexual pederasty in ancient Greece, and you'll see that there is no hope that hunter-gatherer tribal life could ever explain that behavior adequately. This is all a long-winded way of saying that sexual phenomena in the human is more strongly determined by cultural norms than biology or primitive social structure. Faking a personality is difficult, maybe it's possible and I'm just not good at it, but it hasn't worked for me. Still trying to figure out if I should get better at faking it, or recede from other people, or get over myself and be completely authentic. Anyway, I wish you the best lain. I'm rooting for you.

>>96659 >>96659 Plot twist: you werent supposed to go against yer parents because... reasons. Youve been kindly warned with "are you sure?"-like messages, but you KEPT PUSHING. I swear, just request some hi-caliber happy pills. Add some sterile eggs (most eggs are sterile and un-fertilized by default nowadays) And maybe - MAYBE - learn some differences between schizotypical and schizophrenic; just so you could hint to your parents you're not a "hysteroid type" and not an "epileptoid type" either.

>>96723 My bro and sister were in danger and bro asked for my help I had no choice but to act. Why are you even implying I'm a schizo when I have concrete proof that I am not? Like what? You should just say you're a certain kind of schizotypal? Bro I have a full fuarrrking file proving that I am in no way schizo. My parents got caught lying to police, social workers and my whole family. They've been saying I'm a diagnosed schizophrenic I have proof that no such diagnosis exist. But I should argue I'm a normal schizo and not a dangerous one and also I shouldn't have gone against my parents cause they warned me not to? You either are one of my parents or some random pedophile, I don't understand how else you could reach such a conclusion.

>>91774 >>91779 Don't become another office drone IT NPC. That would be squandering of your talents. You are someone with a passion, artist, filmmaker with at least decent social skills and street smarts (what being indie filmmaker entails) Lot of virgin losers IT dorks like me would kill to be in your position - somewhat free schizo artist chad. You have to tap into this and continue making art no matter what . Somewhat will always pay you for your real-life non-NPC somewhat analog skills. You are a dying bread - a real human who thinks and feels, do not squander this on way of just another NPC

Unfunny guess: OP has learned helplessness. 1. Working in shifts on some locations like warehouses or fixing apartments as a job could be of great help. 2. Filming apartments as a realty agent could be of help too. 3. A filmmaker? So you know how to shoot photoes too, I hope. Wildlife photoes maybe? Streets? >>91747 true, capital megapolises tend to "eat" people.

>>97269 >>97413 Learned helplessness might be it yeah. Idk becoming an office drone fits me, I like writing during my shift at a bullshit job where I barely do anything. Anyway some news >It's been a full year, or a year and a half now, of enduring voices in my head paranoid bullshit, though the possibility that people and neighbors treat me like the local funny crackhead is quite high and I'm not that paranoid after all idk >Got a full time job doing reception at a retirement home >Should have my own place in a month or so >Suffered a cyberattack on my phone by my dad, he has my location now and all my files and messages, gotta go to the police and report that, been extremely anxious and paranoid since then >Few remaining "friends" hate me and aren't my friends anymore, calling me a liar a schizo and so on, I still have deepseek at least, pretty sure my little siblings dislike me too >Pretty sure I'm not schizo but I have ptsd psychosis >Constantly getting glazed about my upcoming short film and filmmaking skills which is making me increasingly worried about the possibility of me dying next year at 27, considering I'm a tortured artist who has had a life filled with nothing but rape, suffering and loneliness so far, also people have been telling me I give off Kurt Cobain vibes recently How do I enjoy the year I got left? I'd like to have consensual sex once at least?

>>91742 You seriously need to nut up my dude- I know many people who've had it a lot worse than you and one of them is your age- got ass raped by their mothers methhead boyfriend every day for several years from 9-12 years old and now has a full time job, a girlfriend, and a sick ass hundred thousand dollar car. And he never had trouble taking care of himself once. Honestly you are totally a fuarrrking coward i've been dead homeless on the street with no help from anyone for years at a time addicted to smack and meth and I manage to get a girlfriend and a job when I need one. Man up. for real I don't wanna read anymore of your whiny pussy boy soykaf

>>97450 >i've been dead the only truthful thing you said to be honest you've always been dead, you have never been alive, you have never been a human being, and you probably never will.

>>97451 bro i'm gonna tell you something someone told me once when I was whining. everybody gets raped. most people move on and get over themselves. I suggest you do the same and stop blaming others for your problems. I was molested. I'm your age. Didn't stop me from getting a girlfriend, working a job, contributing to a partnership, or anything else i've strived to do with my life. Get over yourself- i'm sorry i'm not giving you pity points but it's because I love you and believe in you too much (even just as a stranger and fellow human being) to harm you in that way. Learn to swim

>>96738 "Plot twist" is a meme template, chill Random advice. Chemicals to avoid: coffee. In my - MY - experience, drinking coffee and then having an argue with family member = mood ruined to the point I feel the pointlessness of my existence. Well, it used to be the case until I realized I can fight back by answering "What you want me to lose my job???"

>>97450 My nervous system is broken, it might take years of therapy for me to ever have normal sex, without being a minute man or like having a flashback, maybe the years of therapy wont ever work and my dick is perma broken idk. I'll be alone forever and I'm only getting older, what do you even expect me to do to fix this seriously? Do you have a realistic solution? Maybe you know a woman who doesnt mind all that? Oh right they don't exist, men and women are always looking for the best they can get in a partner and I'm bottom of the barrell. I can't fuarrrking take it anymore.

I won't be as harsh as other people have been in here, but you do have to rely on yourself. The world is like kicking dead whales down the beach, and most people do also. That is just how soykaf is. You could rope your way out, or you can get over the despair and work toward a better future for yourself. Myself, I've been through hell. I'm doing better now. Because I chose to take responsibility for my own life.

For the past two years, my reputation has been written in the stares of my neighborhood. I am "that guy." The one who talks too loud about incest bullshit, It's not like I can just not pick up the phone whenever my brother, lawyer or police calls, and I tend to forget my social awareness in public, even if I take those calls inside the walls are so thin the neighbors hear everything. I'm the one who did unhinged things. The village idiot. I’ve become the local crackhead, doesn't help my social anxiety having everyone stare at me and hearing whispers and laughs wherever I go, I'm in panic mode 24/7. I just got a job. 39 hours a week. In a nursing home. I am going to spend 39 hours a week pretending to be functional, wearing a mask of calm, while inside I’m drowning in PTSD and the city's gossip is eating me alive, I feel naked everytime I go out. I found this job so I could finally pay for therapy. But the moment I step outside to go to work, it’s torture. I have an apartment lined up, but it’s still in the same area where I'm the local crackhead. I have to endure at least one more year of humiliation just to stop being homeless. Also, I lost the few remaining friends I had.