Passive Protest/Meaningful Living

What ways do you passiely protest against how culture is changing or how it should change? By "passive protest" I mean living a life that, while normal, also puts out a message about how you want the world around you to trend. I do that by using a flip phone, using payphones, paying in cash for everything and refusing to patron stores that don't accept it, and more generally refusing to give out my information. I think this is a form of protest because the public behavior signals that there are people still out there that don't want to use a smartphone for everything and don't want to be followed by several organizations and companies. Not because I'm a spy, but because I'm normal. To be explicit, I don't act this way for protest's sake; that would be obnoxious and contrarian. I would do this even if it were the norm because that's how I like to live and carry myself. But I do realize that doing this sends a small message.

I protest vote in presidential elections by registering as the party I normally would if I was any Norm, then because of open elections I had been able to vote for the candidate of the opposite party i am registered to selecting who is closest to what id want as least bad. Next I turn around and vote third party or independent in final round for my closest match.

In response to surveillance culture, I use Tor for everything possible. In response to idiotic fashion trends, I dress plainly and simply. In response to idiotic ideological trends, I maintain a rational, evidence-based. non-extremist outlook. In response to fanatics, agitators, and trouble-makers, I smile, shrug, and walk away when possible. In response to idiotic media broadcasts, I turn them off. In response to rising prices, I buy the least expensive adequate versions of only what I need. in response to uncertain conditions, I save my money and try to have a plan B in mind.

>>86587 I avoid earning or spending money. My lifetime contribution to GDP is going to be negligible.

>>86593 a.k.a >I leech of my parents So rebellious punk man

>>86594 I own my own home and live alone. I made enough to safely live at poverty levels and now I'm done. That said, I have full respect for neets who are dependents, they are also doing the right thing, even if it doesn't seem like as much of a choice to them. The economy isn't working for us, it's a moral good to stay away from it.

>>86593 same , i have bio reactors btw

>>86600 >The economy isn't working for us It seems to be working for everyone else

>>86602 it is? I just see wealth gaps grow exponentially and inflation forcing most people to live like slaves and settle into an uncomfortable rhythm of narcissistic conceited consumption/detachment demapping just about any avenue for real ideas, modes of living or expression and pwning anyone engaging with it

>>86603 whens the last time you ate food you didn't produce yourself sounds like its working to me. maybe not perfectly but still

>>86604 just a while ago when I had lunch I still have my garden though and while tending to it the other day I saw this delivery guy whose bike died on him being very stressed over the fact while helplessly doing nothing, like wishing he could do something but that learned helplessness froze him and made him waste precious hours and emotional energy for no good reason, like he was a microcosm of everything wrong in a hyperconnected system of oversocialization and overcodependency most antisystem thoughts are really an expression of anxiety over the possible failure of these complex systems and the bad karma accrued from all the repression and hostility they represent though

>>86605 I too have a garden and at least where I live I am quite glad to have a plumbing network that provides me pressurized water with such reliability that I hardly remember the last time I lost it. >bike delivery thats a moral problem not an economic one. If I was a bike courrier and I couldnt do basic maintainance wherever then I'd probably kill myself, as this guy obviously should have. Speaking of which why didnt you help him ? >most anti system thoughts are a I think you maybe meant most of your anti system thoughts are that. Mine are mostly from watching how it does fail and it fails in plenty of ways, which isn't to say its alltogether collapsing or falling apart

>>86602 >>86604 So the 95% of it that's waste and misery propagating more of the same is ok because of the 5% that keeps us alive? When you spend money you are saying to someone, somewhere, want to live? Then spend your time doing the thing I ask for, nevermind how it is for you or what you want to do or whether it's even really important to me or necessary. And then they will in turn go and spend it again, inflicting the same harm over and over. When you earn money, you are allowing your own will to be displaced by such demands. It's not proportional either, vastly different bargaining positions dictate the ratio of what you give and what you get, and for most people that means the degree of coercive force they are subjected to is high and they don't really have a way out other than death. This soykaf is not good. Better to make as few demands as you can, and live according to your own choices as you can, even if cultural support for acting on your own is a wasteland, and we are conditioned to be bad at it. You probably can't avoid transacting entirely, but you can be more, or less, consumed by it.

The average person's standard of living is dropping steadily.

>>86592 I like to do most of these things, except instead of dressing bland I express myself with fashion i find interesting. also, i have extremist political views, but i prefer to express them in a positive fashion like giving money to homeless people, volunteering for anarchist collectives, and I sometimes give talks for things like harm reduction. I know its corny to still do these days but I film the police whenever I see them giving homeless people a hard time and when they leave their vehicles unattended i leave trash on their hood and windshield. I dislike how negative media signaling has turned people against one another so I try to deescalate every conflict I see (many anarchist groups give training for this, if you're interested in knowing how), and I try to provide rational, evidence-based, undramatic and comprehensive outlooks on things to my friends and loved ones. I think the last year of my life has been very maturing for me, honestly.

>>86609 You've chosen to frame this negatively when you could just have easily framed it positively. I don't really have the ability to make IDK a modern car all by myself so instead what I do is pick something I'm decent at and maybe kinda enjoy and get good at it and then I do it and get tokens which I can exchange with people who can make cars and I get something that I couldn't possibly make but still really appreciate having. The folks who made the car get their tokens and can trade for other things they want that they can't so easily make, and things mostly work out. Now if you're a communist you might say from each according to his ability and to each according to his need, and this is more from each according to his whim and to each according to his produce. But hey the world isn't communist so whatever. >better to make as few demands as you can people of whom no demands are made I think turn out worse, fwiw I'd prefer if more was demanded of me. And besides, money is for the most part not a demand but an offer for voluntary trade. If you want to not work, to quit the economy, OK you can for the most part. But if you want to reap the fruits you're generally obliged to sew the seeds some time in advance (or get ur parents 2 dew it 4 u) >dont have a way out apart from death some people live in communes or off garbage or whatever its not hard the economy at least in modern and well developed countries is generous and wasteful of the basic needs of life, and we carry on our shoulders many other countries and people who do not produce according to what they consume because communism never died.

If you work in a large company, go out of your way to sabotage operations or just slow stuff up.

>>86624 any tips for if I work at a small one ?

>>86614 Lobsters boiled in water etc. The smartphone is the worst invention ever.

>>86614 why not produce your own eletricity and food tho?

>>86603 >>86609 I don't know that man. My brother in law runs his own business and is doing well for himself, and I just landed a defense contract so I'm springboarding off of that. You're probably thinking about it too hard (on purpose)

>>86623 >in communes or off garbage or whatever its not hard Have you lived in communes or off garbage? Have you tried to survive without a job or anyone to support you? You know how many people are struggling with this stuff and only barely or can't manage it? Why would anyone work multiple low paying jobs if this was reality? Why would anyone continue to work jobs they are intensely miserable in if they could just stop and still be ok? It's just dismissive and ignorant of what people are going through. I got out but it's not like it was easy or fair. >You've chosen to frame this negatively when you could just have easily framed it positively. Well how about this: freedom is good and important. Freedom is what you get when you can spend your time as you choose, rather than as someone else chooses for you, backed by threats of being harmed or left to die. This is true both inherently and because when we are all just acting on the supposed distant will of someone else, we're a society of egregores rather than people. Society should be oriented around making people more free, and more of what they do being expressions of themselves, rather than making them more controlled and what they do being mechanical responses. >The folks who made the car get their tokens and can trade for other things they want that they can't so easily make, and things mostly work out. Yes, sure, it's very clever and works to make some stuff possible that otherwise would not be. The fly in the ointment is there's no real consent, a huge amount of imbalance and coercive force involved, and so these exchanges are tainted and not actually voluntary. >Now if you're a communist you might say from each according to his ability and to each according to his need, and this is more from each according to his whim and to each according to his produce. But hey the world isn't communist so whatever. I'm not a communist, but why not finish that thought? Why would "communism doesn't work" be a valid reason to accept this as ok and stop considering it? If someone is saying they don't want to walk around a puddle, so you should lie down in it so they can walk over you instead, and you basically have to do it, it's not ok. If they make the same sort of disproportionate demands indirectly, without considering or caring about what you would want or be comfortable with and how that weighs against it, it's still not ok.

>>86632 I'd feel really uncomfortable working on a defense contract, and even my well-off relatives seem more sheepish, miserable and materially unwell than usual.

>Grow my own plants >Spend and earn money minimally >Keep technology minimal >Explore natural medicines >Read controversial or derezzed literature

>>86633 >Have you lived in communes or off garbage? no but several friends have >Have you tried to survive without a job or anyone to support you? sure I lived for a while off the money I found on the ground lol. >why would anyone work multiple low paying jobs if this was reality a) you have to make concessions if you're going to do this that drive you into the realm of being very weird, and it likely takes more actual time thought and effort than just getting a job, and b) a lot of people just follow the hurd and the hurd says go get a job and buy a house or maybe rent. >society should be arranged around making people more free for the sake of argument I'll accept this assertion, but if so, how do you do it ? How do you rebuild the economy in such a way as to make people free ? Or more people more free at any rate however you're optimizing it. >threats of being harmed or left to die what obligation do I have to you, exactly, that means I should not leave you to die ? Comments like this are why I proceed as if you're a communist, because this is basically to each according to his need. Perhaps you're not a communist because you omit the second half of the charter; from each according to his ability. The way I see it, things aren't too bad on this front as it goes. Id make some quibbles about how property tax pretty much prevents actual voluntary quitting of the economy, but thats a superficial and not structural flaw. >there's no real consent I get that there might well be slaves someplace in the chain but basically everyone involved in making the car has the choice to participate or not, to participate in a different part of the chain if they'd like to, to work in an entirely different industry or even be a homeless bum. Where is the consent missing ? Because you don't have the option to just be a bum living in a resort villa ? The natural state of a human outside of society is a savage state, civilization is cooperation, can't have one without the other. >If someone say they dont want to walk around a puddle They're not actually ordering anyone to lay in the puddle though, they're offering a bid that says, if you'll lay in this puddle that I might walk across, I will give you a specified amount of my worth. Sometimes no one will take the bid and the guy will have to stand there till it dries up, but if someone thinks the price is right and consents to it, then whats wrong with that.

>>86634 >I'd feel really uncomfortable working on a defense contract No one said you had to fight for anyone, you just do accounting for Northrop Grumman and manage a project or two. >even my well-off relatives seem more sheepish, miserable and materially unwell than usual. They were like that when they were poor as well but didn't have a way of expressing it. Don't be dumb and let wealth get to your head and you'll be fine >>86635 You'd have been be a real activist in the 90's, LOL. That lifestyle is so common nowadays it isn't even considered a stereotype anymore. Not having a smartphone in the current year might be saying something, but the rest definitely aren't.

>>86638 Buddy. Im not trying to "be" anything, because like OP, I would be me if everyone was like me or not. Its not an active protest for protests sake, but its a way of retreating from the social standards where I live in the world, and living by my own standards.

>>86639 >its a way of retreating from the social standards where I live in the world And you think you'd be living that way even it if were the social standard?

>>86629 not that lainanon but you'll still need the initial money and land for that.

>>86643 we collectively didn't need it so why should you

>>86652 >collectively hive mind mentality

>>86636 >for the sake of argument I'll accept this assertion, but if so, how do you do it ? How do you rebuild the economy in such a way as to make people free ? Who knows but probably not by participating in the problem, hence why I said I avoid it to the extent that is possible, which I am arguing to justify. >what obligation do I have to you, exactly, that means I should not leave you to die ? I don't know about an obligation, but if your setup involves strategically and artificially arranging people so their survival depends on spending their lives this way I don't support that and won't help propagate it. >They're not actually ordering anyone to lay in the puddle though, they're offering a bid that says, if you'll lay in this puddle that I might walk across, I will give you a specified amount of my worth. Sometimes no one will take the bid and the guy will have to stand there till it dries up, but if someone thinks the price is right and consents to it, then whats wrong with that. I am presupposing dubious consent >to work in an entirely different industry or even be a homeless bum. Where is the consent missing ? Because you don't have the option to just be a bum living in a resort villa ? Homeless people are physically unsafe, more likely to be assaulted or die, and doing basic things is illegal for them, so the threat of homelessness is pretty serious. Even if people have jobs they like the idea of, it isn't often that they actually get to do those jobs, but regardless of the specifics a job is when you exchange money for every day doing what the job chooses for you, rather than what you would choose to do with your life on your own. This can be more or less coercive, depends on what the options are and how desperate the circumstances. The more options, especially the option of being able to say no without putting them on a path to not being safe or not having their basic needs met, the less coercive things are. If there's 100 job listings available to you but they're all for being a puddle bridge, and you don't have any other way to get food, that's not a good situation and whoever participated in setting it up didn't do as well as they should have.

>>86655 yeah I also think it's fuarrrked we live in a system that coerces you into selling yourself for the powerful and seldom gives you more than the illusion of a choice in a vacuum and the that you need to justify your worth to others just to be kept alive but this is an organic system brewed after centuries of soykaf, most people are animals and have to be coerced into contribution and they're plenty fine living their last men lives everyone's a sucker so just don't get owned

>>86643 >we collectively didn't need it so why should you To grow your own food you need land which you control and can exclude other people from using or stealing the food you grow i.e. you need property and property rights. Even your hippy dippy communes have walls around them for that reason. >>86660 >you need to justify your worth to others just to be kept alive Even if you lived alone on a desert island with no evil capitalism you would still need to do work against nature to keep yourself alive. Whoever told you that after the revolution you can sit on your ass all day while food falls from the sky is lying to you. >>86655 >Homeless people are physically unsafe, more likely to be assaulted or die, and doing basic things is illegal for them That is a preference though. The fact is you can live on the street and eat from dumpsters without ever sullying yourself with work or money. Nobody is forcing you to work a job you do it because you prefer to have a minimum standard of living which can only be achieved with a job. That is not the same thing as being a slave at all.

>>86663 I appreciate the materialist cynicism but it's true that with proper resource management in our current society we could feed just about everyone and barely make a dent in our collective pockets, in fact it'd probably be more efficient than resource allocation as we currently have it we just choose not to I'm not gonna believe in utopias but y'know the answer's right there and we could keep on working to make it even better instead of leveraging power to fuarrrk other people up and get fuarrrked in return cuz we can basically lol

>>86666 >with proper resource management in our current society we could feed just about everyone and barely make a dent in our collective pockets Easy for you to say when you are not the one who will be doing any of the work. >in fact it'd probably be more efficient than resource allocation as we currently have it Literally every attempt at building a communist country in the last 100 years tells us otherwise. >the answer's right there and we could keep on working to make it even better And what are you doing exactly? If you want to share the wealth then there are plenty of African families living on $1 a day. Instead of spending $80 on a video game you could seriously improve their lives. But you choose not to because communism is not about helping it is about taking.

>>86668 lmao okay >communist countries communist leaders in the 20th century understood society as the hostile entity it really is and used the meme to prop themselves up to power, here's why lenin and mao are the two most successful expressions of communism I'm just pointing out this train of soykaf darwinist thought leads to zero sum extinction also saying wage slaves are technically free because they can choose to be homeless is like saying slaves are free men bc they can always bite off their tongues whew man humanity really is fuarrrked

>>86663 That is a preference though. The fact is you can suck my dick without having your brains splatter on the floor. Nobody is forcing you to suck my dick, you do it because you prefer to not have your brains splattered on the floor which can only be achieved by sucking my dick. That is not the same thing as being a sex slave at all.

>>86663 >To grow your own food you need land which you control and can exclude other people from using or stealing the food you grow i.e. you need property and property rights. Even your hippy dippy communes have walls around them for that reason. collectively we didn't have that. If we wanted land, had to fight for it and protect it. If we wanted walls, had to build them and maintain them. If others wanted our land and stuff, had to fight them off or otherwise dissuade them. >>86655 There's a chance you're just opposed to civilization in which case excuse me but it sounds as if you want the productive population to be enslaved to guarantee a comfortable, safe existance with four walls and a roof and plenty to eat for everyone who opts to merely loaf about.

>>86660 >most people are animals and have to be coerced into contribution I think that's just bullshit to be honest, treat people with basic respect and let them make their own choices, that's not going to collapse everything, rather we will be stronger that way. >>86682 >There's a chance you're just opposed to civilization in which case excuse me but it sounds as if you want the productive population to be enslaved to guarantee a comfortable, safe existance with four walls and a roof and plenty to eat for everyone who opts to merely loaf about. This seems like kind of a canned argument, that you can't have everyone actually being free because then somehow it would necessarily mean doing things that make other people enslaved? I don't really buy it, but more importantly it's normally directed at ideas about what the government should do. I'm not talking about what the government should do here, I'm saying I don't earn or spend much money, here's a reason why and why I approve of others also doing this. If people spend more time "loafing about" as you call it, which is really anything they could do to act on their own initiative noneconomically, I expect their actions will work towards improving things one way or another.

>>86687 canned arguments are what I run through until I figure out if your position merits something bespoke. Previously it sounded as if you contended that everyone should be able to expect a basic guarantee of life and safety regardless of their actions, which strikes me as absurd, and requires other people to take care of them who cannot or will not take care of themselves. If your wish is merely for a right to exit and live apart in the woods on your own land subsisting off your own labour then sure whatever I don't have a problem with that and think we should do away with property tax and such to make this possible

>>86688 >canned arguments are what I run through until I figure out if your position merits something bespoke. lol ok, don't think that's something I want to engage with then if you are explicitly not trying to understand where I'm coming from on this

>>86693 if you read the post youd realize hes explicitly trying to understand it just looks like youre spouting commie talking points which only deserve anti commie rebuttals

Okay glitterboys all of you have internet connections so you aren't homeless. This thread isn't internet pinko debate #432987 it's about how you live differently to say something to the people around you, not how you would run the zoo or live in a small, unoticeable corner of it

>>86756 I think the average homeless guy has internet access if he tries. Many of them have smartphones, and giving the homeless access to the internet is one of the primary functions of the average public library didnt kalyx run this place for a while while homeless get with the times mister titor

>>86758 That's besides the point