Voting

Voting is like kicking dead whales down the beach. It always leads to a tiring two-party system where people are forced to pick a lesser evil everytime, and anyone who votes for a third party essentially wastes a vote. There are other voting systems that are better, but they still lead to problems. Philosophers, mathematicans, and politicans have spent years writing and theorizing about voting systems, looking for the perfect one, but no matter what they theorize, there is always some flaw that prevents it from being perfectly fair. The human mind is naturally a slave to being manipulated by propaganda. Our flawed chimp brains just can't help but fall for the same mental tricks, and it is because of this that it feels like there is no fair system of voting. And if the voting system isn't far, then doesnt that make democracy just an illusion? What would your ideal solution to a fair voting system be, Lain?

A system in which citizens are randomly elected to office by a ritual held publicly by the community as was the case with Athenian democracy. My Tor exit node's IP is blacklisted, sweet, I'll change my post then to circumvent it. Nice job punishing EVERYONE for one person's behavior.

Its not a new idea at all but ideally I think leaders should in fact be drafted with high turnover rates. I know this presents a wide variety of problems and perhaps its totally unfeasible but id like to see a country try it because I have a lot of hope for the idea. I think much could be tweaked about the specifics of this draft to solve a variety of problems that arise. Problems like "what if a total idiot freak gets drafted" I think if it were suddenly implemented would be huge problems but have solutions. Ideally acting as a leader and the ins and outs of the political system would just culturally become mandatory knowledge, something many wish was true in our system already but never will be because our system doesnt necessitate this like what im saying would. It would become the responsibility of everyone to ensure this if leaders were drafted. Perhaps just candidates could be drafted, or maybe the draft would involve a pool of people drafted to take a variety of tests and then picked from those who passed. It would mean culturally we would feel more of an obligation to educate and support one another, the failings of one person could eventually become all of our problems. Longer national projects by nature would require public support and knowledge, lets say the turnover rate is just one month. If a majority of people are interested in developing more public transit infrastructure than this work will continue across the majority of drafted officials as their combined work overpowers any sitting ducks or those trying to sabotage such an effort. Perhaps someones tenure could be lengthened or shortened with a vote. If a majority of people are against something and one candidate decided to make it their pet project, they simply will not have enough time to carry it out. Theres a lot of logistical issues to this but there is with our system as well, and there simply has been several hundred years to sort them out and even then as you say it might still be failing. Instead of the imagined problems and solutions I proposed above I think all that needs to be understood about this is that if leaders are drafted from the general public collectively over the long run it becomes the ultimate representative system. Instead of bandaid fixes and ammendums and promises to fight corruption, such a system would demand and necesitate a cultural shift to addressing the wellbeing and education of all. Everyone must flourish or no one will, cause everyone (in a sense obviously not literally) will have their turn at the helm. There would no longer be any benefit to throwing anyone under the bus to try and maintain power, there would be all the benefit in ensuring the next leader and thus everyone said leader could be drafted from understands your visions and goals and that said vision and goals are self evidently beneficial to all and not some egomaniacal obsession. No matter how youd structure such a draft it would obviously have issues of poor candidates setting us back for their time. and theres the question of how many officials should be drafted. Should it just be the president or primr minister? Should it be all offices? Should each office have a sort of seperate pool it drafts from or does that undermine the purpose of it all? I dont have some epic manifesto for how this all would work, im just an ideas guy. But I do really think with enough time the problems such a thing presents would be far less than the problems of current voting systems. But who knows maybe there is some far simpler solution like taking candidates out of the public eye entirely and everyone just gets sent some mandatory online form where they choose. Im sticking to thinking drafting of leaders is a good idea.

>>84314 Whoever you elect, his job will be to appease all major political forces at work, which mean he will have no power and neither does the electors. The kingmakers, the ones who own the algorithms of the social medias and the press, they can decide which information you have and which you don't and control the toughs of the voters, but even they are depleted of their power by the real players: the pressure groups, the think tanks, the lobbies. They are the ones who decide what will happen and the thousands of smaller administrators in the background, the deep state, decide how. But before you ask for a fair voting system, ask yourself why you want one in the first place. Do you want your say to have the same weight of someone who vote for a candidate because "He make me feel understood when he speak", "He is relatable" or "She is a women"? There should be strong barriers to gatekeep access to the vote. People who don't formulate their own opinions or who don't search truth, the ones who eat pre-digested opinions and hold whichever opinion they think is the socially accepted one, they should not have the right to vote. I say, political parties should be illegal. Career politicians should not exist. We should vote for ideas and not people. And of course, only the people who have a minimum of political culture, of reading comprehension, a minimum of information about the state of the nation and of the world should have the right to vote. And to prevent the exchange of public money for votes, anyone who receive more from the state than he pay taxes should not have the right to vote. >>84315 Given how low we have fallen, random allocation of seats of powers would be a better system. Scheisse, trial by combat would be a better political system.

>>84315 damn we posted these at nearly the same time. not the first time ive seen the idea from someone else here either. maybe lainchan is just the unofficial unaware home of the drafted president zeitgeist

>>84316 A good advice: if you want to make something fail, often change the leader. If the policies change every 4 weeks, what do you think will happen?

>>84320 I didnt not consider this and im about to be retarded here and say thats for you to figure out nothing is set in stone here except drafted president man and a higher turnover rate im not actually suggesting one month and also there is a million ways in which such a thing could be set up to where someone simply couldnt change all of the policies within just their term. In this fantasy world they arent truly a leader anymore they are like a government worker. Your making my fantasy world your fantasy world and imagining a system where the policies change every 4 weeks thats your failed system not mine. With the basis of drafted officials (which could just be some positions or maybe its many) and a quicker than normal turnover rate you should try imagining a solution to this problem your presenting because like I said im not writing a manifesto and so im not going to have one dragged out of me. Is this intelectually lazy.. yes very ... but I dont care.

>>84322 also in short if you want my real answer, that simply wouldnt happen because in my draft world we are several hundred years into it and all the messiness has been worked out by others greater than me and its had such a cultural impact that everyone is up to speed so no one would have any desire or want to get into office and suddenly change all the policies because why would they. They nix a few here maybe if at all and mostly continue work on the rest with perhaps the seeds of a few future ones to brief the next person on. Its very unrealistic but also what your saying doesnt even compute in this unrealistic world if you cameinto this little.mind kingdom of mine and said that they would say why would we do that what are you talking about its just that good in here.

>>84318 >There should be strong barriers to gatekeep access to the vote. People who don't formulate their own opinions or who don't search truth, the ones who eat pre-digested opinions and hold whichever opinion they think is the socially accepted one, they should not have the right to vote. This would prevent the people who most lack critical thinking and self-thought from voting, but it would never be able to completely stop it. We are all influenced in some way by outside forces that affects our opinions, whether it be the media, your community, or what values you were taught as a kid. We all embody these outside forces when we make decisions or form opinions to some extent, as that is just the flawed nature of the human mind. That's not even getting into how problematic the test would be, as whoever decides the questions for the test are gonna determine that their way of thinking is the right way, and that people who think differently from them are the ones who aren't thinking for themselves, and would thusly put questions that prevent those people from voting.

>>84315 To elaborate further, I don't intend for democracy to be exactly as Athenian democracy because theirs was not completely dictated by pure randomness. I want democracy to be dictated purely by randomness. There are a lot questions of how that could be made possible, and how to handle such a system. How do we even run the election? And do we implement a drafted election onto our current system of government, that being for most of the world a federal republic? Speaking as an American, I don't think it would be an awful idea to keep our current structure of government. Many of the problems with our current systems of government are the result of powerful minority groups conspiring to exploit the system in order to benefit themselves, at the expense of the masses' freedom, health, and wealth. This is one of the main grievances of many revolutions. I think that most existing governments' overall structures are fine. Corruption of governance comes through exploitation of the electoral process and legislative systems running the government, the government's structure is peripheral to this. Corrupt powerful people, I'll just call them elites since it's easier, get into positions of government, bribe government officials, and exercise their influence in business/economics. The government officials are technically elected by the people, though elections can be rigged and have been historically. The officials can be bribed, threatened, or killed by these elites. They can be financially 'incentivized' into making certain decisions by large banks or corporations with massive influence over the economy and stability of a nation, with the ability to cause devastation. We would need to change a policies in our current systems to prevent the elites from continuing to do the things they do. Actually, seeing how corrupt the government and economy is, we'd have to basically overthrow the whole current government and then recreate a new one using the same template (or a new one), and get rid of a lot of large corporations. We should eliminate bribes (lobbying) and severely punish them by impeachment and imprisonment. Drastically lower the paygrade of government officials to that of a stipend, something to keep them off the streets but nothing like hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Eliminate healthcare benefits, and any other benefits of serving in office. Give people limited runs at office in which they can only serve once, and make their term only a few years long, I think 4 is a decent number. Basically, we should take away any appeal of working in the government aside power, so as to reduce the amount of morally bankrupt people seeking office to the power hungry variety. Power alone will draw psychopaths to the government, but, seeing as the elections will be random, from a pool comprising every mentally capable adult, there should be a low amount of psychopaths in office. Some people do worry about having dipshits in office who will cause chaos, but I think said people seriously underestimate the average person's abilities. A normal person when given an enormous amount of power is going to become fearful and wield it very carefully at first. An example of this can be seen in jury duty. Jurors are randomly selected. Most of them don't crave the power, and when they have it, tend to carefully consider their decisions, because the life of at least one person is usually at stake. Now imagine having the lives of numerous people at stake. A normal person will probably take more care. That's not to say that people cannot be corrupted by power, people can, and are, there's plenty of stories both fictional and real about this occurring. But, it's unlikely for a regular person to become a raving tyrant over the course of 4 years in office, especially when there are checks and balances. Like this lain >>84316 said, making it so that any person could theoretically be elected into office would strongly incentivize every single person to becoming more engaged in the world around them, and develop a greater understanding of it. I think that this form of democracy is a decent idea, and I would much prefer it over every other system tried for the last several thousand years.

>>84323 >no one would have any desire or want to get into office and suddenly change all the policies because why would they Not going to happen. You wish the world was different but it has always been the same and no quantity of "changing the culture" or "building a new man" will work. Of course your random civilian will want to turn things one way or another. Some will want to use this new position to gain as much money as possible, others to secure power for their relatives, some to declare a war against a country they don't like. >>84327 What if the polar opposites all choose a few questions? Then only open minded people who understand all points of views will vote.

>>84314 There is no such thing as a fair voting system. The closest thing would be a delegate system where a body elects a representative from one of its own members instead of voting for a politician and can recall/fire that delegate at any time. Political parties should be derezzed. But even a direct democracy is flawed. Democracy is based on a bunch of liberal conceits. That “the people” can act as one and are wise and prudent and will collectively make the best decision. Turns out, “the people” is just an amorphous violent mob and voters aren’t rational actors who weigh up the odds. In many rural third world countries, you’ll see villages and towns that practically run themselves. No politicians, no bureaucrats, no state to manage everything. The community bands together and does for itself. The big lie of liberal democracy, Marxist Leninism, fascism, and other modern totalitarian ideologies is the lie that we need an almighty state and private companies to lord over us. Small town democracies work because people actually know each other and the community is making decisions about the community, not voting for some geriatric career sociopath they’ll never even meet.

Voting a single decision maker to make all decisions is deliberately and maliciously low bandwidth. Ppl should vote about decision procedures they care about. Decision systems should communicate directly with other decisions system making mutually relevant decisions. No need for "administration". When conflicts arise, that makes sense to vote on. In terms of oversight, a single administration again seems inferior to many different auditing systems auditing systems relevant to their expertise and making independent reports. Politics as imagined is moribund.

>>84314 Funny that I just had this conversation with AI recently. I figured out I would larp and then tried to find that greek lottery election thing I remember few years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition Here's their answer: <I asked about who should we vote it provided specific answers so it's pretty neutral (chatGPT-4o mini) vs Gemini/Siri/Amazon> Discuss why Sortition is better in today's world. Sortition, or the practice of selecting political leaders or representatives by random draw, has gained attention as a potential alternative to traditional electoral systems. Here are several reasons why some argue that sortition could be better suited for today's world: Increased Representation: Sortition can lead to a more diverse and representative body of decision-makers, as it randomly selects individuals from the general population, including those who may be underrepresented in traditional elections. Reduction of Partisanship: By removing the competitive nature of elections, sortition may reduce partisan polarization and encourage collaboration among representatives, as they are not beholden to party lines or campaign donors. Minimizing Corruption: Since sortition does not rely on fundraising or campaigning, it can reduce the influence of money in politics and the potential for corruption, leading to more ethical governance. Enhanced Civic Engagement: The use of sortition can encourage greater civic participation, as citizens may feel more empowered to engage in governance when they see ordinary people in positions of authority. Focus on Deliberation: Sortition can promote deliberative democracy, where randomly selected representatives engage in discussions and debates to reach informed decisions, rather than simply voting along party lines. Mitigating Voter Apathy: With sortition, the pressure to vote in every election may be alleviated, as citizens may feel that their chance to participate in governance could come through random selection rather than through traditional voting. Addressing Systemic Bias: Sortition can help counteract systemic biases present in electoral systems, such as those related to socioeconomic status, race, or gender, by providing equal chances for all individuals to be selected. Reducing Campaigning Fatigue: The absence of lengthy and often contentious election campaigns can lead to a more focused and less divisive political environment, allowing representatives to concentrate on governance rather than campaigning. Encouraging Long-Term Thinking: Representatives selected through sortition may be more inclined to consider the long-term implications of their decisions, as they are not focused on re-election and short-term political gains. Adaptability to Local Needs: Sortition can be implemented at various levels of governance, allowing for tailored approaches that address the specific needs and concerns of local communities. While sortition presents several potential advantages, it also faces challenges, such as public acceptance, the need for effective implementation, and concerns about the qualifications and preparedness of randomly selected individuals. Nonetheless, proponents argue that in a world increasingly disillusioned with traditional political systems, sortition offers a compelling alternative that could enhance democratic governance. I actually had similar thought for a while now sortition did kinda evoke a sense in me so I was trying to incorporate it to my AI-infused novel which I already started writing even before current AI changes dawned. I even had technocracy with AI overseer and sortition and lots of lotteries in the idea where the main character did hit the jackpot (or maybe another supporting). I guess if we're to compare things and nations I would say there is only two relevant nations. Greek and Japanese nation. Both also observably are a lot more civilized than the rest of the world where we can even see vendo machines around (Greeks being the pioneers and still has them today such as Milk vending machines :-O ) Really though I think that to best expose your ideas you should write a novel or do it so that it's some sort of storytelling that would get people's heartstrings rustled and maybe just maybe some few billionaires, thinktanks would like that idea.

>>84357 Wow cool name thanks RNGesus. Anyway I do think that a lottery-based system that would base most things on things like randomness is probably the BEST thing - it also is rooted from divination which is the act of observing or using the natural formations to show the best course of action or future (I do have personal divination under my belt which I've documented and experienced so I believe it to be true). There's probably something at work with there, maybe higher power or the core crowd wisdom doing its own quantum selection thingy which is one way to word it that when we let fate decide or the all-chaotic things decide the outcome it may be for the better as the natural course of nature is always GOOD. We all know deep in our hearts that decisions we do are probably worse especially if we know we are not that great or doing well, even super brilliant ones or billionaires may even fumble on decision making. We decide from the two things, sometimes we are wired to pick the third one which is called the "3rd choice (or option) effect." There is also a saying that we should never decide, when we decide between two parties or life-changing choices we may end up in worse position later this is why they advice people to sit and wait patiently (avoid the false dichotomy). Even though there is what we call "Buridan's Ass" which says inability to make decisions can be the downfall (the Donkey was unable to pick between bales of hay and so starves to death) and it just so happens that democratic party uses donkey (funny). Now that in mind I think that RNG is the next big thing. If one could turn the tides of RNG into their fate they are the REAL chosen one. You won the lottery, you won the election maybe you did some mindblowing LoA (law of attraction) or esoteric practice or you're simply more connected to the chaos that is the universe or so much of a change that you're selected. That's what I truly think the word "selection" truly means. It's not something about race, background, identity, intellect, it's simply just the nature doing its thing. A society that is based on RNG and also extremely aligning with Cypherpunk which also leans on usage of secure RNGs or rather quantum RNGs or higher! I envision that novel as something real so I guess nature is with me. I pride myself for having "written/predicted" the future such as when Elon took twitter under his wing it may have been natural course or simply my influence when I noticed that the balance between online discourse had been toppled due to recent imageboard attacks perpetuated by organized anti-internet civilian-intelligence groups.

>>84357 >>84358 There is a few things a lottery system needs. It needs not to elect just a single central leader but rather a group of people to place everything to a vote among themselves. Ideally they should be identified only by some anonymous ID. This way corruption from bribery and lobbying (though lobbying should be outlawed) would be difficult and they can all voice controversial opinions among eachother without fear of social repercussions. This of course is only for daily tasks leaders have to fulfill. For enacting laws the general public should be the ones to vote them in perhaps, though Im not sure since then you still run into the issue of bad popular opinions. However risk of oppression by the majority can be reduced by requiring a large super majority among the public.

>>84333 >What if the polar opposites all choose a few questions? Then only open minded people who understand all points of views will vote. And how many polar opposites would there have to be? It would take thousands of people to come together in order to fully represent the breadth of the ideological spectrum. Having all these people have to come together to cooperate on making a test would be infeasible. It's gonna be neccesary to cut out many viewpoints and perspectives from working on the test, or else there would be to many. Therefore someone would have to decide which views and ideologies are *worth* having on the test and which ones aren't, which just comes back around to the problem of people being biased in their creation of these systems. I do believe your idea would be great on paper, but unfortunatley humanity will always find a way to mess something up if given the oppurtunity.

>>84328 This is why we need socialism! It's the only way to stop those corrupt elites! And it's the only way we can get to enjoy the hilarious chaos that would come from your suggested random democracy!

>>84373 This is why we need a terran federation! It's the only way to stop those damned bugs! And it's the only way we can get to enjoy the hilarious chaos that would come from lanky civilians who spout your dusty ideology! Service guarantees citizenship!

>>84333 i dont wish this world was anything see the first post i was adding on to also obviously the world in my head i was referring to in my head is different i dont wish it was it just is because its all been figured out already and im just so visionary and megaminded i can imagine perfection im just that good sorry.

>>84314 The voting isn't the problem. The problem is a voting system demands manipulation of voters by existing rulers to stay in power. A media manipulated voter base will fail in any voting system. Also people found better systems. Its not hard, the problem is anyone in power wont go for a better system because that would remove them from power.

They don't count the votes, they never did. Politics is just reality tv, a circus in the breads and circuses.

>>84336 While I agree that centralization of political and economic power is a bigger threat to society than the technical details of a particular election system, centralized decision making is sometimes necessary when organizing to a specific goal (such as fighting wars). I like the French electoral method of a primary election with all candidates and a runoff between the two most popular of none wins a majority. I think it is better than first past the post systems popular in the anglosphere.

>>84370 If it simply require to know what communism, anarchism and fascism is, I guarantee than less than 0,1% of the population will vote. I don't know what sort of nerds it will be but they will surely be better at choosing a leader for the nation than wine aunts and burger flippers. >>84451 The last election in France was a clusterfuck. The left decided to forget why they are different parties and united as one new party. Their program was for the state to spend 150% of the GDP and they would pay for it by taking the money directy on the bank accounts of the French. Then the most lefty party went full antisemitic but no one said a word because the far right is racist and we have to make a choice. The far right is the main party and their program is to spend more and tax less since debts are a lie, so their local candidate get more votes in the majority of the circoncriptions and they will get an absolute majority. Then the presidential party and the new left party decided to unite their strength to get their own candidates to win against the far right. Meanwhile, the far far right party is destroyed and the moderate right party have a coup. The far right don't have a majority. But no one does. The left decide that they have won the election and want the president to name a first minister who will undo all of his work and they want him to sign the laws of this government. He don't want to. The left call this disrespecting democracy and demand that all powers are given to them. Then the moderate left don't want to be associated with the fanatics anymore. But the president need a majority, and the far left won't vote for someone who isn't anti-Macron. So now we have a borderline far right government with a moderate leftist politic. The left want to paralyses the country because we stole their victory. It probably won't survive until Christmas.

Start by banning vaccination and circumcision. Then get rid of the school system.

>>84314 it's not that pessimistic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logrolling

>>84475 Pessimistic like Greg in your thinking that voting is fully rigged or a waste of time which is a popular V tactic used by the state. Even Vasques knows this is typical talking point.

Even if democrazy were not a rigged game from the start designed specifically to give people the illusion of their irrelevant oppinion having any value and then using it as a driving force to polarize and then benefit of the chaos. We see in the way people put up stupid pointless banners that only serve cheap slogans, go to social gatherings that have no point other insider trade each other off mentally and the illusion that something is going to change trough their pointless mass hysteria that has no goal, those kinds of idiots who believe such crap are the problem. Democracy is such a painfully obvious farce and most of the worlds people are falling for it squarely, shows more about the "voter" than it does about the politics in and of itself, as if anyone with half a brain takes this memery seriously.

>>84314 >two-party system In the US it is but outside you're facing a more complex structure where there's one party that may well win but then gets absolutely rolfstomped by an alliance of all other groups and there's nothing they can do about that because muh law & order. This entire setup is a joke that gets amplified by governments openly banning other organizations and parties as they see fit. People who vote are mere programs.

>>84477 gerrymandering is legal vote rigging. And if you choose to ignore that: Regularly some news pop out how some city election had a candidate lose with 0 votes despite him obviously voting for himself... clear full vote rigging. Looking at bigger elections you have likewise regions with 0 votes for some party while they get decent votes elsewhere. Whats the chance nobody votes for a party ? The only question is if counters gave those votes to their own party or merely dismissed them. Moldavia recently was same soykaf, "voted no" in morning, "barely yes ;)" in evening.

>>84842 >Moldavia recently was same soykaf, "voted no" in morning, "barely yes ;)" in evening. Can we get a TL;DR on this?

>>84870 referendum was held whether to change constitution to make it easier to join eu in the future. ended on 50.38% yes 49.62% no. obviously both sides consider the other side attempted meddling with the result

>>84870 The problem is 40% of their economy is farming, by joining they are gonna destroy farmer income as can be seen with baltics. Vote for suicide is highly sus. And as previously said media first reported no and then flipped to akshually close yes. "we found the votes to win last minute" doesn't look convincing.

>>84875 >Vote for suicide is highly sus. Plenty of people will brainlessly vote for whatever the corporate media tells them to vote for. And it's not even framed in terms of gain vs loss it's literally just "support our agenda or you're a bad person". It's insane how many people will vote to send their children to die in a pointless foreign war just to avoid being labeled a terrorist sympathizer or putin apologist or whatever.

>>84874 >>84875 >>84879 Have you ever considered that the voting system is so rigged that these numbers are fake from the very beginning and just meant to torment people and mock them? Also, how can anyone respect a nation that would be so neatly and almost perfectly divided? It's beyond silly.

In the USA, a big voter turnout favors the democrats. A small voter turnout favors the Republicans. Every election cycle, social media posts encouraging people not to vote start appearing out of nowhere. Who do you think might be behind that?

>>84904 Dont remember with whom they sided but fb only reminded people of one party affiliation to vote. They did targeted manipulation not broadcasting.

>>84316 we should be going in the opposite direction of this. make an AI of Richard Nixon and have that thing run the country for all of eternity.

>>84904 Funny enough doesn't the Republican party sometimes try to boycott voting hoping they can claim the election was illegitimate? Which isn't even legally binding because voting in the US is not mandatory so there is no percentage requirement.

>>84314 >It always leads to a tiring two-party system where people are forced to pick a lesser evil everytime I just voted for a ranked choice voting system in my state. There are Approval Voting candidates running for many top positions in my state as well, and I voted for 2 of them. Politics will never be perfect, but we can do worlds better with just a few small changes. As a fallback plan, I'm buying my first gun this year. tldr, `I didn't hear no bell`.

>>84910 richard nixon is like kicking dead whales down the beach. Horrible president. we should hold a vote on which dead president should be resurrected as an AI to run the country for all eternity. Subce we already know what their previous presidental terms were like, we could more effectively vote for a president.

>>84917 I wouldn't mind God-Emperor Jimmy Carter.

>>84917 I'd take him over any modern bozo, though.

>>84904 The democrats and republicans are essentially the same party, just with a few varying beliefs. Both parties are just capitalist neoliberalist parties, split into two to give the illusion of choice. Whether people vote or not, and whether the democrats win or the republicans win, the end result is mostly the same. Hence why black people are still being shot by police and gay people still being hatecrimed despite the current ruling party claiming to be "leftists".

Stupid question but what is the word that gets autotranslated to "kicking dead whales down the beach"?

>>84927 No word got autotranslated, they just wrote is like kicking dead whales down the beach

The general consensus of historians on "best" US presidents is: 1. George Washington, who led the army that defeated the British. 2. Abraham Lincoln, who preserved the union and freed the slaves. 3. Franklin Roosevelt, who led the US to victory in WW2 and ended the Great Depression with The New Deal. Any one of them would be fine with me.

>>84931 lincoln's reputation is only spared by the fact that his perhaps poorly timed assasination robbed him of his chance at redemption, and perhaps had he lived he'd have done as he promised and sent the slaves back to africa (where they naturally would have enslaved their cousins). Roosevelt lead the US into the Cold War wheelcharing on the backs of Americans as he exported everything from food to stolen patents to literally Uranium and complete factories to the Soviet Union shame that these historians are all massive glitterboys. that or they misinterpreted 'best' to mean 'most significant' and even in that reckoning there could be some argument >>84924 yes the leftists, the faction of never ever for any reason what so ever shooting a black person under any circumstances that would be HERESY

>>84924 Most people aren't aware the parties are both named after Democratic Republicanism which further proves they are same ideology. Also the whole black people getting shot thing is a false narrative the media pushed. The reality is people in poorer areas get shot by police more. No cop is going to shoot a rich black man. It often isn't racism it's closer to classism. Though there is some racists. They also kill people with mental illnesses and disabilities and medical conditions a lot.

>>84931 1. kinda oka 2. soykaf 3. supershit

>>84928 That is like kicking dead whales down the beach. This post is an experiment dot dot dot.

>>84932 >yes the leftists, the faction of never ever for any reason what so ever shooting a black person under any circumstances that would be HERESY Actual braindead take lmao. Never in my post did I state that every black person who was shot is innocent. Im simply pointing out the obvious fact that there is an alarming frequency of black people being shot by police for small offenses like possessing minor drugs, or even occasionally for no crime at all. Also, if you wanted blacks sent back to africa, then by that own logic you should be sent back to europe as you aren't a native american lol.

>>84933 You are right that classism is the core of the issue. I just didn't get that deep into it because that wasn't the main subject of the post. However racism does still play a part in it, as it is because of racism that black people are more likely to be poor, and thus more likely to be targeted by police. Segregation and the reagan administration has prevented most black families from accumulating generational wealth, thus leaving many of them stuck in a state of perpetual poverty. The narrative the media pushes is a half-truth, purposefully leaving out the classism so that no actual change is made and so that the CEOs of those companies can keep profiting off classist systems. Sorry if i am rambling lol

>>84915 Ranked choice isnt ideal. Rating systems are much easier because you can make someone equal to another and it is just easier to figure out. Usually I see it as a five point system like star ratings. Still an improvement though.

Switzerland has a political system closer to real democracy than most others. They seem to be doing pretty well for themselves. Maybe we should take a closer look at it. As far as corruption, the countries with the least corruption are the scandinavian countries, especially Finland, and other social democracies. Maybe we could learn something from them, too.

>>84967 corruption indexes are a scam to be honest. They turn bribes into donations and optional fees and then say we have no corruption cause its all legal.

>>84967 Finland is so corrupt that they manipulate the index somehow i suppose. They dont understand what corruption is there since it's so deeply normal to give jobs and deals only to friends etc

>>84954 >Actual braindead take lmao. Never in my post did I state that every black person who was shot is innocent. Im simply pointing out the obvious fact that there is an alarming frequency of black people being shot by police for small offenses like possessing minor drugs, or even occasionally for no crime at all. As no human is perfect and cops can be under a lot of pressure, that's an expected amount of "waste" when you take into account the huge quantity of heavier crimes blacks routinely find themselves responsible of. It's not even a question of left or right, it's a matter of cold hard statistics. >Segregation and the reagan administration has prevented most black families from accumulating generational wealth, thus leaving many of them stuck in a state of perpetual poverty. If these blacks were clever, segregation would actually be very good to them. They would use that cleverness to prove that they can do just as good as whites, just be as inventive, smart, honest and hardworking, while being left alone to their own business. What is exactly preventing them from doing what poor white settlers achieved before them, on their own? Why haven't they already regrouped in their own little town and grown from there by emulating whites and starting a two-way trade system with nearby cosmopolitan or white towns or large cities? You can try to hide between the US segregation and Reaganism but in other countries where they are implanted and have been massively supported by governmental subsides they're just as ineffective, unproductive and a dead weight to everyone else, to say nothing of the serious criminality they always find themselves embroiled in. They are responsible of much more crime than other groups such as low class whites. When they're given tons of cash for free and benefit from modern comfort and technology they still spectacularly fail at school and professionally, and see this as even more reasons not to do any effort, it makes them even lazier than they already were. It's a loss-loss with them.

>>84967 Switzerland is the worst kind of supernational corporate banking hive full of vilainy and scum that is atleast on par with the united states. The people here are closet nazis who use democracy to undermine one another as best as they can and then blame it on the other party. Corruption and greed arent even the issue anymore, its such a climate of hypocracy and selfishness thats at this point they are arrogant they think its good this way. This place is an utter ghetto of the filthiest kind and it already is going the direction poland is going and at a fast rate, in a few years it will be as bad as afghanistan. Im just glad we get overfilled with muds and other primitive vermin, atleast they will keep their mouths shut and die on the street when wellfare goes down. Daily chicanery and downright insults is what you get from above here and i have native indiginous swiss friends who utterly hate this country and its people, for good reasons.

>>84978 >it's so deeply normal to give jobs and deals only to friends etc Its the right move. You hire someone other than family cause you got told nepo bad and then they hire their entire family. The people telling you nepo bad are the same that want to get a foot in to get their entire clan on board.

>>84978 >Finland is so corrupt that they manipulate the index somehow i suppose. You... suppose?

>>84998 You sound like a frustrated expat.

>>84984 >If these blacks were clever, segregation would actually be very good to them. They would use that cleverness to prove that they can do just as good as whites How come all the white people living in trailer parks dont use their "white cleverness" to get out of poverty then? It shouldnt be that hard for a member of the so called "superior race"

>>85053 race mixing will happen either you like it or not

>>84998 >every country that doesn't do what the globalist billionaires want them to do is a corrupt nazi dictatorship I know I am exposed to the same propaganda you are. >>85053 >How come all the white people living in trailer parks dont use their "white cleverness" to get out of poverty then? It shouldnt be that hard for a member of the so called "superior race" The argument is not that all whites are smart it's that they are smarter on average. Pointing out that there are stupid white people doesn't disprove anything just like how pointing out that there are short men doesn't disprove that men are taller than women. What the post you're responding to is getting at is that you give white people an empty country and you get Australia, you give black people Rhodesia and you get Zimbabwe.

>>84314 >There are other voting systems that are better, but they still lead to problems. Philosophers, mathematicans, and politicans have spent years writing and theorizing about voting systems, looking for the perfect one, but no matter what they theorize, there is always some flaw that prevents it from being perfectly fair. The human mind is naturally a slave to being manipulated by propaganda. Our flawed chimp brains just can't help but fall for the same mental tricks, and it is because of this that it feels like there is no fair system of voting. And if the voting system isn't far, then doesnt that make democracy just an illusion? No, not being perfectly fair doesn't make democracy just an illusion. Democracy is a strategy for maintaining a government that has more concern for everyone's wishes, and less seeking power through violent conquest, than it otherwise would. It's not a situation where it has to be perfect or else it's useless, you can have incremental improvements (or regressions where it's worse but still worthwhile). Media manipulation can deceive the public on some things, but sometimes unpopular acts are too big to hide or twist (like a war with no apparent purpose sending many people to die), and in those cases voting works. I voted for a ballot measure this election to switch to some flavor of ranked choice on the state level, I'm hopeful that it could help some if it passes. Adoption of mail-in ballots is increasing and that helps too; it's way more practical to look up information on the things you're asked to vote for if you have time and internet access to make your choices more leisurely, instead of being asked to vote for all these candidates you might not be very familiar with and all you know about them is one of two party signifiers next to their name or vague memories of whatever distorted exaggerations the media came up with about them.

>>84874 The results had this anomaly because older people tend to vote early in the morning and young people instead vote closer to closure in the evening. Considering old people vote against EU and young in favor, that is why at first no was winning and later it went to yes. Also votes of Moldovans who live in EU were processes only after all other votes were counted. They even have map of how each locality voted.

The real problem with voting is that idiots get to vote too. Some 75 years old who cannot use computer and does not know what internet is gets to vote. In some places voters like this are majority. Because of that we get government of senile idiots elected by senile idiots. There is also countryside. In places like Russia 2 hours from Moscow and you in a place that does not have sewage, running water and landline telephone. Its as good as some uncontacted Amazon tribe, yet they also get to vote and outvote smart internet using lainons by vide margins. We need to create a lainon country for democracy to work.

>>85022 You sound like a retarded glowie who has no idea what hes talking about and in fact has nothing to contribute at all except meaningless oneliners. to be honest posts like yours should be just deleted. >>85060 >>every country that doesn't do what the globalist billionaires want them to do is a corrupt nazi dictatorship >I know I am exposed to the same propaganda you are. Nigga what??????? Switzerland is the central hub of globalism, its the place where it all goes down, everything here is geared towards it and people are openly in support of agenda 2030. This is the home of the schwabelklaus and it has been the hive of all globalist and billionaires for decades, globalist policies have been not only governmentally enforced here long before globalism was international and the culture fosters all the values of own nothing and be happy perfectly. How can you be so ignorant to not know that switzerland is the birthing place of globalism, all policy making and decisions of globalist nature come from davos, get internationally ratified in geneva and needed execution takes place in zurich or basel. During and after 2020 the swiss have been number one to follow and enforce globalist gameplay rules, they even openly stated that the swiss must be the leaders in global governance policies.

>>85070 It seem Klaus know that you must not sh*t where you eat. Switzerland is the eye of the storm. For your information, France, and more specifically the culture of universality created by the forced merging of hundreds of different people under the name, language and culture of France. >>85062 Look at America and tell me if it look like what you are describing. Democracy exist to ensure that whoever hold power must eat in the hand of modern kingmakers. The propaganda cartel had no problem to manufacture consent for the two Bush wars and more recently for the destruction of Libya or supporting the moderate islamists in Syria. The formula isn't even complicated: give to the people emotionally charged information so they will assume that they are defending moral values and the oppressed by siding with whoever it was the clique had decided you should side with. Think white helmets. Has voting worked to get the boys back home when Obama was elected for that in particular? When Trump has been elected to make America inward instead of being imperialist? Joe got them home yes, but out of sheer incompetence and delusions. If voting changed anything, it would be illegal. Voting by any other means than showing your face and an official ID should be illegal.

>>85070 >Nigga what??????? You're the one who called them nazis. You understand they can't be nazis and globalists, those are fundamentally incompatible labels.

>>84984 >It's not even a question of left or right, it's a matter of cold hard statistics. Blacks are twice as likely as whites to be exonerated, meaning they are twice as likely to be convicted of crimes they (probably) didn't commit. This isn't even counting the amount of people who are arrested and never charged. Take that into account when looking at the statistics.

We should simply establish lainon-cracy and rule society as we see fit. We have tech skills to hack net and we should use these skills to take control. If anything future would be technological and even wars would be won by the side who has better programmers and can code their smart weapons smarter than opponents.

>>85067 There is a non tyrannical non exploitable way to deal with idiots. Just give them another option to self remove their vote. Basically voting just to vote but they are voting for something like "I don't know".

>>85090 you remove your vote by not going to the ballot. idiots voting arent gonna vote dont know, they go voting cause they think they know best. its how work accidents commonly happen stupid+confident = i know best lets ignore safety protocol An interesting experiment would be assigning a price to voting. Everyone receives a voting voucher and you can decide to turn it in for $10 or a vote at the ballot. >>85086 If one group commits 4x crime then 2x exonerated is half the amount not more... The numbers are even more skewed when it comes to rape which you cant even excuse with im poor If anything outside their control is to blame its people like you who help normalize the thought that its all whithey fault which create entitlement and moral justification to rape white bitches cuz they guilty.

>>85096 >If one group commits 4x crime then 2x exonerated is half the amount not more... I was accounting for that oft-repeated statistic. Blacks are 30% of arrests but around 50% of exonerated. The probability of being exonerated is higher if you are black, that is the simple truth. >The numbers are even more skewed when it comes to rape which you cant even excuse with im poor Did you know that a lot of black men have been accused of rape and sentenced to death with basically no evidence? Often not even their supposed victim supported the accusations. >If anything outside their control is to blame its people like you who help normalize the thought that its all whithey fault which create entitlement and moral justification to rape white bitches cuz they guilty. It's just cold hard statistics, my guy.

>>85100 their crime stats are garbage regardless where you look, entire eu is same soykaf. GL coping with that

>>85101 Sure m8. Let's just pretend Europe is a utopia and racism doesn't factor into any of this at all.

>>85102 There is a reason asians&indians arent hated like that - they dont cause problems. Racism is earned consequence, not the cause.

>>85106 >Racism is earned consequence, not the cause. And now we get right down to it! The world is in fact just and everyone is always getting what they deserve. How nice!

>>85096 Here is a better system: if you don't contribute to society, for instance by paying more taxes than receiving welfare, you don't get a say in how the country is run and even misdemeanor temporarily remove your voting rights. >>85100 >Sentenced to death for rape Saudi Arabia? ISIS? Afghanistan?

>>85102 >Racism is made a crime, relentless fight against even the smallest hint of it, massive stigma in the entirety of the public sphere and almost every private ones, careers destroyed over a bad joke made 15 years before >Thievery and sometime even rape is less punished >Even Asian grooming gangs(tm) are tolerated >Anti white racist agressions everyday, occasional anti white murder, covered And yet, this is not enough. What will be enough? Tell me. I will tell you what, racism is natural and present in every culture. Racism is a part of human nature. It's a folly to want to reshape human nature to fit arbitrary philosophical ideal when society should be made to accommodate human nature. Systemic racism give systemic privilege to blacks and browns yet they are the ones who still do crimes while East Asians and all sorts of whites are the victim of reverse racism and still, they do less crime. There is more than pure socioeconomic factors.

>>85119 >I will tell you what, racism is natural and present in every culture. Racism is part of human nature. so is diarrhea. >Systemic racism give systemic privilege to blacks and browns And yet, the stats show that they are more likely to be convicted for crimes they did not commit (especially for very serious crimes such as murder and rape). More likely to get harsher sentences for the same crimes, too. >while East Asians and all sorts of whites are the victim of reverse racism and still, they do less crime. The only case where reverse racism actually exists is in stupid policies like hiring quotas, and even then it's nothing like the racism that black people experienced not very long ago. Do you think people like being "diversity hires"? It's humiliating.

>>85120 >so is diarrhea Which is an important function for purging disease from the body.

>>85125 it's also disgusting, actively spreads disease, and someone who willfully subjects themselves to diarrhea is deeply fuarrrked in the head. I can over-extend metaphors too. The point is that something being natural doesn't mean it is desirable.

>>85126 diarrhea is body flushing guts to prevent dead might be actually perfect example of your brainrot looks ugly so i dont like it, lets die beautifully

>>85120 How do you know they haven't committed them? The justice system think they did is they were convicted. You can make stats about arrest rates, compare them to the general population and point at a systemic racism that do not exist because you had to compare the arrest rates to criminal activities by races but nobody do it because it would prove that the police isn't racist. But you can't just say, okay those guys who went to jail, they are innocent. How do you know it? How do you know the whites were guilty? Positive racism exist in every American university. If you add nepotism and quotas, it's impossible for an Asian and almost impossible for a white to have an education. Every company that have more than 100 workers need a good esg score to not be destroyed by the people who own money and that's mean they have quotas too. I do think systemic racism is a problem. >Jim Crow existed so you owe them to die in poverty Yeah, explain this one please. It have been told a million time to me but when I ask why I either got ban or insulted, so I still don't know. Can we, at the very least, make it illegal to want to end whiteness?

>>85054 Indeed, it is critically necessary to the survival of the indigenous populations to be replaced. Without their replacement they would disappear sooner or later.

>>85062 >Democracy is a strategy for maintaining a government that has more concern for everyone's wishes That's very naive of you. >but sometimes unpopular acts are too big to hide or twist (like a war with no apparent purpose sending many people to die), and in those cases voting works. Like, when did this ever happen? No amount of voting has meaningfully been able to thwart a scandal or stop a war dead in its tracks. The USA alone are a testament of this to the face of the world. >I voted That's your problem right there imho. When the society requires hard decision to be taken, most politicians will look away and settle for the easier and more appealing tune. That alone prevents necessary changes from happening. When the radical alterations that society should beg for cannot even be properly addressed because of taboo or censorship, were do we go? >>85067 Then sort out the idiots, but who is fit to declare who is wise and who is a fool? Can you solve this? I doubt it.

>>85136 >How do you know they haven't committed them? They were exonerated, meaning there was enough evidence to retry the case and they were found not guilty. > If you add nepotism and quotas, it's impossible for an Asian and almost impossible for a white to have an education. Bit of a stretch there. You are correct but again, this is nothing at all like (for instance) being explicitly required to sit at the back of a bus explicitly due to your race. >>Jim Crow existed so you owe them to die in poverty >Yeah, explain this one please. I can explain that easily, you quoted something I never said because it's easier to own the libs when they only say nonsensical things. >>85132 Yeah, so let's all get dysentery because diarrhea is good, right? You're really not going to engage with the point at a deeper level than advocating for literally soykafting yourself because I compared it to racism? It's an interesting debate tactic...

>>85086 >Blacks are twice as likely as whites to be exonerated, meaning they are twice as likely to be convicted of crimes they (probably) didn't commit. Being exonerated means walking out of some accusation free of blame. The numbers we are given are logically representing confirmed cases. So in other words your argument isn't making their case any better. Their crime rate is through the roof and dwarfs any other ethnicity based figure. As an example, Sweden had a very low if near non-existent crime rate in the rape category until they brought in Somalis. I happened to read some old blurbs about the behavior of blacks in Europe during the rise of the slave trade. In places like Spain and France for example their movements were heavily controlled. As soon as they were allowed to roam free, Europeans started to report a rising number of punctual crimes committed by these people, sometimes emancipated. I understand these ideas are not popular yet and I wish we had a better option but thus far I haven't found any other greater solution than organizing a form of strict separation of ethnic groups. The multicultural experiment that involves blacks has a pattern, that of constant failure. All the other nations on Earth should not have to cope with this when the recurring source of the problem is the same and rather obvious. >>85102 I cannot understand how you obtained from the anon's post the idea that Europe was presented as a utopia. It is anything but. >>85106 Wait until the flood of Indians and their odd customs begin to grate on other peoples' nerves. The forced mixing of cultures only happens through unfairness and blind violence, often with forms of slavery and forms of tyranny or gross manipulation.>Blacks are twice as likely as whites to be exonerated, meaning they are twice as likely to be convicted of crimes they (probably) didn't commit.

>>85141 >Being exonerated means walking out of some accusation free of blame. In the US legal system it specifically means having your case re-tried after being convicted and being declared not guilty. Usually because of new evidence. >The numbers we are given are logically representing confirmed cases. So in other words your argument isn't making their case any better. I'm sorry, I can't follow this logic at all.

>>84915 Most mathematicians I know think ranked choice is much worse than plurality since it's not monotonic. Score voting systems are more strategy proof. Personally I think approval voting would be the best since it incentivizes candidates to appeal to a reasonable consensus. Of course, ranked choice has become the pet project of a lot of poli scis, and they've got a much larger megaphone than mathematicians, so that's what we see most activists pushing for. >>84931 I like Taft. I think we need presidents who are experts in the law. The fact that he lived humbly and went on to continue serving the country in the court system after his presidency puts him above most other presidents. Lincoln was right to end slavery, but it was probably also a good thing that he was assassinated. He was on a pretty authoritarian path, and while he might have given up his emergency powers in an alternate timeline where he didn't get assassinated, he also might have just held onto them. Not a risk worth taking really. >>84314 A two party system isn't really that bad. I think the hate for it is kind of misplaced, I'll explain why. In any voting system where reaching 50% is the goal, there will always be a "winning coalition". Basically, there will be a group that forms a majority and therefore rules the country. This group can contain multiple parties as is the case in multi-party countries like Israel and Germany, or it can contain just one party, as is the case in two party countries like the US. In either case, you end up with a winning coalition containing ideologically similar representatives, and an opposition containing those who oppose the winning coalition. In a multi party system, the vote takes place first, and then afterwards the coalitions are formed. In a two party system, the coalitions are formed first, and then the winning coalition is chosen. Both are practically equivalent. The fact is that a lot of people are dissatisfied with democracy both in two party and in multi party countries. The reason for this isn't the number of parties, though it's often the scapegoat. In actuality, the reason for dissatisfaction is the voting system. Currently, all countries in the world have a voting system which encourages maximally rewarding your voterbase while maximally punishing those who do not vote for you. Basically, our systems are designed to push the most extreme and divisive people to the top. Both plurality and ranked choice have the tendency to do this. If we instead had an approval voting system, candidates would be pushed towards being moderate and broadly supported. A candidate who only appealed to one side of an issue would lose to someone who found a compromise that both sides can agree on. Just this on its own would fix many problems democracies have, but it's a difficult sell because it diminishes the importance of the political party, and of course it's the politicians who are in charge of making the reforms to voting in the first place. The best way to have this reform passed would be to do so gradually, starting from local elections and working your way up. When more and more voters become familiar with the system and recognize its benefits on a local level, it will become much easier to pass it on higher levels of government.

>>85106 Indians ARE asians, dumbass. You cant even tell the difference between a race and a nationality. Plus Asians very much are hated in many parts of the world. And as for "earned consequences" black people aren't a goddamn hivemind. Punishing an entire race for the actions of some is illogical.

>>85338 >>Indians ARE asians, dumbass Uk brainrot spotted, normal people make the distinction because culture & ethnicity is vastly different. Then again your press even tossed arab pedo gangs into asian bucket. Lost cause

>>85060 > you give white people an empty country and you get Australia, you give black people Rhodesia and you get Zimbabwe. Australia wasn't empty. There were many natives who were already present when the whites arrived. They took the natives resources and enslaved them to do manual labor. It's obvious that society is gonna build faster in Australia when you have slaves to build it up for you. >The argument is not that all whites are smart it's that they are smarter on average. I know, my point wasn't that dumb white people exist, it's that poor people without education end up being dumb regardless of race. In america atleast, black people weren't even allowed to have the same quality education as white people until very recently, and due to having restricted education, most black people could only get low paying jobs, so even when the laws restricting their education ends, they are still too poor to afford their children access to a good school, thus making them dumb aswell. To ignore this context and just point to statistics as "It's just the natural state of things" is dishonest. Black people have the same potential to be just as smart as any other race when given the oppurtunity. >>85054 >race mixing will happen either you like it or not The poorest states are mostly rural southern states that are infamously known for being incredibly racist and having the lowest populations of black people. Thinking that the racist trailer park whites who would rather date their cousin than be around a black person are the ones whoa re racemixing the most is genuinely delusional.

>>85339 Im not in the uk nor do I cosume any uk media lmao. Arabs and indians are all asian whether you like it or not. Just because they don't match up with your fetishized idea of the asians you see in the anime you get off to doesnt mean they aren't asian

>>85341 what brain damaged place are you from then? only uk always uses that kind of retarded labeling.

>>85339 >>85342 are you saying the thai, chinese, japanese, korean, vietnamese and many others all share a collective culture and ethnicity? are you aware aspects of all the distinctive cultures i just mentioned borrow from indian just as much as from each other? what labeling should be used instead when referring to those in the collective asian continent, and what populations exactly represent your concept of "asian"?

>>85342 Most of the developed world uses that labeling because it's basic science. They're called asians because they are native to the continent of Asia. Really not that hard to comprehend. Each country in Asia has it's own distinct cultures, It's not like indian culture is uniquely different in that aspect.

>>85344 Nobody calls Indians, Turks, Persians, Eskimos, and Malaysians "Asians". It's almost exclusively used to refer to people that live on the east coast of Asia, centered on the sinosphere. Anyway, what's so significant about what continent your people live in, especially one as large and diverse as Asia? It's not like Viets have much in common with Tatars. Europe has been more culturally homogenous for a long time (in old times it would have been called " Christendom") so it makes a little more sense to consider "European" as a term. Same with "American" in the post-colonial era.

>>85343 china is the poster boy sitting in center, neighbors get grouped in and not even all since slavs are excluded. Indians just like slavs don't count. Nobody says "asians attack ukraine"... Throwing everyone into same bucket is simply not useful so you don't define it by continent like brits like to use as an excuse.

>>85347 didnt think someone else would reply and was too slow apparently taking over 30m+, mb On topic american is the best example, people equate it to usa not anyone else on the continent.

>>85350 yeah everybody knows you're referring to people in the US of A when referring to an 'american'. Even people from south america know what you're talking about, even if sometimes they get pissy about it. And even comparing Paraguay to Canada, really there is a lot less cultural variability in the americas than asia ever since the columbian exchange. >>85352 >>85353 What's it like to live with your disability? When you're putting on pants in the morning do you explode with rage about how jews and negroids are to blame?

I am in favor of demarchy/sortition democracy with recall right no more populism no more gerontocracy no more poitical conspiracy in general: can't subvert the system if it acts randomly

>>85349 Any kind of racial grouping isnt useful, no matter how specific your classifications are. People have been trying to come up with definitive racial categorizations and groupings for years and it has all been useless and futile. Trying to find a way to group entirely different populations with different cultures and histories into a bucket will always be a fool's errand.

>>85527 Its about economically & politically relevant countries not race... anything important about asia is gonna be about sk/china/jp going by continental border or genetic distance to define some racial border is useless nerd soykaf.