anti-scientific infantilization in todays technological society

you wake up and start checking out whats happening in the world right now: a bunch of big global events are going down that you cant really change. when you try to voice your disagreement about whats happening, youre told to shut up. after that, you hop on a job recruitment website and throw in an application for a potential gig. but theres a good chance you wont get a formal rejection notice; and if you do, it probably wont explain why you werent picked compared to someone else. this lack of info leaves you wondering if the outcome was because of something you did or didnt do. after all, the flaw cant be systemic. next, you check out an online dating app looking for some romantic connections.if youre a guy, youre probably sending out a bunch of messages, but youre not getting any replies. this leaves you wondering if you need to jazz up your profile or improve your messages, even though the reason for the radio silence isnt clear. after all, the flaw cant be with the app, just look at its popularity! its possible that your efforts just arent being noticed. on the flip side, if youre a woman, you might be flooded with messages, many of which are just plain inappropriate, misogynistic or objectifying. this unwanted attention stems from your gender, and no matter what you do on the app, you have to deal with it. when you go to the grocery store to pick up some food, youre bummed to find out that a product you always buy is suddenly gone, and no ones explaining why. on top of that, items that used to be reasonably priced have shot up in cost. meanwhile, youre hearing reassurances about how strong "our" economy is. all of this happens without anyone asking for your opinions or giving you a heads up; its just presented as something you have to deal with, usually framed as being for your own good. trying to use proprietary software for work, you find out its had a major update that changes a lot of the features you relied on. they say the updates are meant to make it better, and they want you to get used to the changes. youre informed about an upcoming election, which happens every four years or so and is filled with claims about how important your vote and opinions are. youre assured that this election is super crucial, even the most important one in history, just like they said last time. even though the overall story suggests you cant really influence the bigger system, youre still expected to take part in deciding the outcome. so, you drum up that civic duty and go vote. then the results come out, and things just go back to how they were. when you wake up again, you check in on current events and see that global happenings continue to be outside your control. if you decide to voice your discontent, youre once again told to stay quiet. youre steered away from using science and logical thinking to figure out your reality. the complexities of your experiences seem unclear. instead, youre encouraged to rely on willpower, mindset, and positive thinking, with reassurances that the universe will eventually work in your favor. meanwhile, the systems built around exploitation are using well-organized scientific methods. The people who expanded colonial power and the larger global capitalist system are utilizing scientific principles to enable exploitation while hiding these processes from your view. when you take a look in the mirror for some self reflection, what you see shows a life marked by loneliness. the mirror makes you focus on how you see yourself, making you confront your supposed flaws, which come off as weak and hopeless. youre (not so) subtly told that its your responsibility to fix this. as you try to cultivate some self-love and personal growth, you keep running into roadblocks. no matter how you tweak your approach, you find yourself navigating through uncertainty. In the end, the blame gets thrown back at you, keeping the focus off any external factors that might have played a role. in dire situations, even if youre at rock bottom, the blame will still come back to you, framed as a lack of willpower and a negative mindset. after all, external factors cant be at play, and even if they are, they arent systemic.

>>83799 The Winter Solstice draws near. It will be ok.

,s/you/I/g ,s/youre/Im/g ,s,your/my/g ,s/are/am/g I was a little confused reading this blogpost at first but these handy regexes clarified a great deal

>>83799 that was a soykaf ton of words to say life is like kicking dead whales down the beach. as everybody's done every single day since the dawn of consciousness, get over it, try harder, or check out. there isn't any alternative. if you come up with one, let me know.

it isn't like this out in the country, enjoy your 1984 dystopia lel

Now write a paragraph on how dehumanizing human interaction is in modernity. :) It's obvious that we deserve whatever is in store for us. But that's just my ephemera of an opinion. Do not mistake this as weakness as I've grown to be content with knowing nobody cares to hear what a random Joe maybe a (n/b)ot thinks. Here, have a diary log from a game I recently played: Baby Steps From the introduction to Are We There Yet? Where We Came From, Where We're Going, And Why You'll Need Snacks, by Valerie Contera-Romero: Sometimes people point at the last few hundred (or thousand) years of human history and say, look at how ugly it all is! Look at what a mess we've made! Maybe modernity was a bad idea, maybe we should stick to living like cavemen. And I get it, it *is* ugly and messy. But the mistake is thinking that where we are right now is the endpoint, that this is the adulthood of the human species. I mean, try to apply what you know about human development to human history. Think about babies. Babies are ugly. Admit it, we all know it, they look like tiny old people covered in mucus. They have soft heads! And they grow into children, tiny sociopaths with underdeveloped brains. And then they become teenagers, pimply self-righteous lunatics driven by hormones. And then, slowly, if you're lucky, they gradually become adults. The development of the human individual is always ugly and messy, but that's the point: it's development towards something. The same applies to humanity as a whole. On a geological scale, we've barely just come into existence. We've gotten through the baby phase, just about survived our childhood, but we're barely teenagers. Stopping here would be disastrous, and a betrayal of everything that we could still become. We may feel the weight of history on our shoulders, but this is just the prologue. To put it in pop culture terms, we haven't even made it out of the tutorial yet. Just because it's all pimples and hormones and frustration right now doesn't mean it's never going to change.

>>83819 Inane teleological drivel. Growth is not growth-towards, it's just growth. Things, people, die in infancy and adolescence, to posit that 'everything ugly' with humanity currently is just some kink-to-be-worked-out is quasi-religious bullshit. >if you're lucky There is no luck to it. Every step of humanity's "development" in this mythologized 'progress towards' has necessitated mass suffering, people are often happiest when progress does not occur, for instance read Perlman on the Medieval Dark Ages. Regardless, the idea that we are necessarily heading for better, or even heading for anything, is bullshit propagated to silence opposition to a cultic dogma.

>>83799 Let's get together for coffee/tea and cinnanom cookies one day.

>>83819 is this meant to be a parody? the condescending, infantilizing language in pro-systemic propaganda is on point

>>83819 I'm sick of the idea that perpetual expansion, offered by expansionism, is categorically better than a primitive lifestyle. These expansionists are only expanding for the sake of distracting themselves from the glaring hole in their life that is true meaning. When I speak of expansionists, I mean the atheistic, technophilic ones, not the more religiously-motivated ones of past years. I know their lives are meaningless because I've interacted with them for years. They know there is no god, no free will, etc, so the most logical step is to continuously advance in order to better understand the universe, while at the same time increase their lifespan, intelligence, and physical strength with technology, in the hope that they may somehow figure it all out in the future. Primitive people might be ignorant, less knowledgeable, but so what? Their quality of life is much higher. They don't suffer from all of the diseases that plague modern society, they are much more physically fit, and healthier, their lives are much more purposeful because the bulk of their work is devoted towards what immediately matters (staying alive), but there can be enough excess time to have a hobby, their communities are stronger, their connection to nature seems to usually leave them with a greater sense of inner peace, overall their quality of life is much higher than the average person living in modern society. And I know people will say "But they suffer diseases." And modern society doesn't proportionally have a similar amount of people die every year as primitive people do from a typical outbreak of some disease? The inhabitants of modern societies die from diseases manufactured by their own society, primitive people die to diseases produced by nature. In the end a comparable level of people die.

>>83802 Everyday life in industrialized societies is radically different from life in preindustrial societies. This is not just the same stuff that happened before, life is like kicking dead whales down the beach in an entirely different way now and it's worth examining the how and why. >>83818 In the country you deal with agricultural conglomerates buying up all the farmland and polluting it, lack of opportunities for employment (or being de facto enslaved if you're an immigrant) and tweekers, LARPers, and WFHers moving in from the city and fuarrrking everything up. Different problems with almost always the same causes. >>83833 >Primitive people might be ignorant, less knowledgeable, but so what? Their quality of life is much higher. Spoken like someone who's never had a badly infected wound that cleared up with some $1 antibiotics. If you look at "primitive" people that live traditonally while surrounded by industrial societies, such as the Mongols (at least those that weren't forcibly converted to a sedentary lifestyle), they take the technological advances that are useful -- motorcycles, drugs, pasteurization, radio -- and they leave behind the elements that truly threaten their way of life. I think the idea that we have to return to some pretechnological, preindustrial state of existence in order to escape the horrors of modernity is just a false dichotomy. Ted was plain wrong. All of the problems we have are due to how society is organized, not the fact that it involves technology. Why couldn't work be a straightforward process of replying to a help-wanted ad? Why couldn't an online matchmaking service be useful? Why does everyone have to be poor and eat garbage food? There is nothing about the technologies that causes these, these problems are often systemic or even intentionally created because it profits someone. There is no natural law that says it has to be that way if you want to have a refrigerstor, there is only the law if man, and the law of man can be changed or subverted.

>>83843 >I think the idea that we have to return to some pretechnological, preindustrial state of existence in order to escape the horrors of modernity is just a false dichotomy. Ted was plain wrong. All of the problems we have are due to how society is organized, not the fact that it involves technology. Kaczynski never blamed technology alone, he even said that localized usage of technology would be fine. The issue is that as technology advances the power it nurtures will centralize itself. It is technically humans doing this centralization, because it makes most sense. There are innumerable risks technology poses to freedom, particularly as the power it facilitates centralizes itself. And it has been routinely exploited by the ruling class to encroach upon the people's freedom, so as to empower the ruling class. I don't believe there is any reason to expect things to change. Humans' foolishness and animalism is to blame, and it is deeply rooted in all of us. We need and needed our animalism on some level in order to survive. We struggle to separate our animalism from our civilized cooperation with each other. The very kinds of people that vie for leadership positions are the worst kind of people to have occupying them. The only solution is a democratic government of randomly selected individuals. Athenian democracy was run in this fashion. But this isn't perfect. Some organization could still try to compromise the democratic government. They could try to bribe them, threaten them, compromise the electoral process. You can put safeguards in place to prevent that, but they can be legislated away by those in power in the event the government is somehow compromised. Evil/corruption is always a much more powerful force than goodness/transparency because its possibilities are unfettered. What's more, the government could become corrupt internally. Power corrupts people. People literally cannot handle power. And again, you can have safeguards, checks and balances, rules to ensure people have limited runs in office, no golden parachutes, etc, but it can be legislated away. You can have a populace willing to revolt against a corrupted government. But they can be gradually turned docile, and accepting of changes that will ultimately work against their interests. All of this soykaf has happened already. And what's more, people don't even trust one another enough to allow Athenian democracy to manifest itself. I've talked to people about it. They mock me, and imply that there would be total anarchy, because the average person is too dumb to govern. People are doomed to their own inability to strive for greatness. The point of Athenian democracy is to force everyone to be better, because its in everyone's mutual interest. You could have some other form of government, but every other form of government is inherently more vulnerable to corruption than one that has its officials picked randomly.

>>83843 you speak like a city dweller with a horrible outlook on life. this is far from the truth for a good amount of rural residents

>>83843 The problem with post-industrialism is that, as with all synthetic forms of life, you're living only one type of soykafball that's already been explored to exhaustion. There's no discovering the whys and hows of the society of spectacle, of the modern capital monarchies, of post-modern statism and supposed democracies, of the vacuous and meaningless existences we lead, of the prostitution of every aspect of being from socialization to self-actualization and the conquer of capital over society, community, crowd, friends and families. All this material was exhausted before the turn of century. It's widely available. It's intrinsically palpable. It's inescapable and degrading, and the conquer of capital will only continue as time goes on, but there's not even a future, an uncertain point in time to look forward to: there is, now, nothing new under the sun. Even what awaits us has been explored and now you live a life set in tracks you very well know the ending of, and barely any of it deals with your potential or your thoughts or the very fiber of your being and your own decisions. The only real thing you can do, the most effort you can exert in rebellion, is to subvert and destabilize: but that too is done by design. And none of it, ultimately not even your actions, nor those of your peers, nor those of your loved ones, are things you or anyone else has a say in. You only have the last word and draw the line yourself in a pervasive system that seeks to take over more and more of what you are, gaining a mind of its own, and what really is left there? This is the century of Nil. Look at your very own words and worries: they're empty preoccupations on material wellbeing as lack (learned or otherwise) of anything else in there. The humanist cost of the machine has been too great. I assume you're young but pain and death are preferable. In our current situation it's that we seek to feel alive, and its opposite in pleasure. And we've been draining those mines for well about 70+ years now.

Presume we would be better off living as primitives. How do you get there from here? Is there any way to actually reject modernity from within it? I've thought about buying land in the mountains, away from civilization where I can be a part-time hermit, but unfortunately that will require me to wageslave for half a decade or more...

>>83847 >you speak like a city dweller with a horrible outlook on life I actually have a very positive outlook on life. I just don't wear rose-tinted glasses when thinking about what it's like to live in a rural setting. I do live in a city but I grew up in a fairly small town. >this is far from the truth for a good amount of rural residents Many of my relatives live in a truly rural area and they've had to deal with every single problem I listed. >>83844 >I don't believe there is any reason to expect things to change. There's no reason to expect anything in particular, especially if you just passively accept whatever happens to you. >Humans' foolishness and animalism is to blame, and it is deeply rooted in all of us. Foolishness, sure. However I think many problems of today were actually caused by deliberate, logical actions taken by specific people and groups of people. >Evil/corruption is always a much more powerful force than goodness/transparency because its possibilities are unfettered I disagree. Evil and corruption can only reach those possibilities in which everyone is trying hard to screw each other over, while goodness/transparency can accomplish great things which are only possible with cooperation for a greater goal. Look at the EU; people would have called it an impossible fantasy just eighty years ago. >People are doomed to their own inability to strive for greatness. I guess I agree, but I think primitivism is perhaps the greatest expression of "inability to strive for greatness". If you really think nobody can do any better than sleeping in the dirt, aren't you basically giving up? >>83856 >All this material was exhausted before the turn of century. It's widely available. Just because somebody could read the same thing you did doesn't mean they have. It is worth talking about an idea even if it is perhaps not new to you. >there is, now, nothing new under the sun. Bullshit. >And none of it, ultimately not even your actions, nor those of your peers, nor those of your loved ones, are things you or anyone else has a say in. Bulllshiiittttt >Look at your very own words and worries: they're empty preoccupations on material wellbeing as lack (learned or otherwise) of anything else in there. My words were a rebuttal of primitivism, and you read into it as if that's all I care about. You think I support capital? You think I don't strive every day for something greater than just the empty "hedonism" of consumeristic consumption? My point is that we can do better than primitivism, not that This is preferable. Cut the nihilistic end-of-history bullcrap. It's the worst kind of copium. I don't care how old you are, grow the fuarrrk up.

>>83819 What is this soykaf? Who even writes this?

>>83858 >Foolishness, sure. However I think many problems of today were actually caused by deliberate, logical actions taken by specific people and groups of people. Their actions wouldn't succeed if people didn't allow them to succeed. And it's not as though people sat around and willingly allowed all of the crises of today to form, they had an inability to see how their lower nature was being manipulated so that they would support those decisions, and failed to see the implications of the decisions they supported. But they, the masses, aren't blameless victims, they should have known better, they can hardly be considered thinking human beings otherwise. I guess a problem is that large groups of people in particular can't think rationally, it's one major issue that drives the formation of authoritarianism. And for the people running the show, it's not as if their logical actions weren't motivated by base desires for power. Call it whatever you like, I just call it animalism. >I guess I agree, but I think primitivism is perhaps the greatest expression of "inability to strive for greatness". If you really think nobody can do any better than sleeping in the dirt, aren't you basically giving up? I don't think that living a primitive lifestyle is optimal. I don't think it's preferable. And I contradict myself, people's inability or unwillingness to imagine a world better than the current one, and try to create it, is a major factor in people's enslavement, and I myself don't believe there can be a better world where humans are able to wield technology ethically without the power it provides them with being used in crooked ways. It seems utopian to me. I think humans are far too vulnerable to themselves. We can create systems that will provide decent living conditions only temporarily, they all crumble away eventually, but before they crumble away, some of them turn authoritarian. And they're replaced by new ones that go through the same cycle. All the while, technology advances, causing the longevity of each new system to be extended, its capabilities, and level of influence can be broadened. Eventually you'll have systems formed that create ideas and technologies whose implications are unavoidable, we have it right now with human obsolescence in the face of the machine. That's not something avoidable, nor will it go away, nor will all of the world's governments conveniently collapse, and advanced technology vanish from the face of the earth.

>>83801 what a smart person you must be lainon ! im impressed have an un upvote

>>83859 Somebody who have been told his entire life that he live is a political system made to serve the will of the people and who grew up. Most people never grow up, so congratulation to that Anon. The next step is to understand that technology does not solve human problems. We are not evolving toward peace, prosperity and a post scarity utopia, we are evolving from one human condition to another. There is no signing tomorrows, there is no Apocalypse, nothing ever change. Yes, there will be wars in the futures, some of them nuclear even. Yes, there will be starvation and plagues. Technology help power to control us you say? But the people in position of power did the same without technology. If we get to master telepathy or have augmented brain, it will be more of the same.

>>84082 >But the people in position of power did the same without technology. Not at all. Its impossible to track physical coins changing hands but its trivial with electronic banking. They can and do refuse payments at moments notice like the canadian case with protesters getting donations blocked. And it was impossible to have everyone watched in the past since there were more people than spies but now people live online with every move tracked and wear phones aka tracking devices willingly. The electronic age enabled unprecedented control.

>>84085 And yet, the king of Spain made it illegal to make gold leave the kingdom and in France Colbert did pretty much the same, which is to use the technology of their time to control the people of their time. When some king decided that coins will have a facial value instead of just be made of precious metal, he used the technology of his time to control the people of his time. History lesson number one: empire dies, new power rise, dynasties fall and new one emerge, nothing ever changes. Modern means make it possible for everyone to be spied on, true, but you do not understand that this information can not be used. Get a journalist fired for reporting the news, jail an activist for having the wrong opinion, that you can do, and it was done even in the antiquity, but can you jail half of the population? The only advantage tech give is relative to propaganda. What Trudeau did was to freeze the bank account of every person who gave money to support the protester. It's much worse. An even better example would be the sanctions against Russian civilians. Not only they got derezzed from many services like Apple pay and got their asset seized, but what's interesting is this case is that they did nothing at all.

>I think I'm a competent, rational person, but I can't get the approval I think I deserve from other people and from society... Don't be such a pussy. If you go through life depending on the approval of others for your happiness, you'll waste your time. Society and people in general are getting more and more fuarrrked up, and at a faster and faster pace. Don't depend on anything that fuarrrked up for your self-esteem. You don't ask for satisfaction, you take it.

>>84086 Those medieval money blocks weren't that effective. Merchants dodged limitations by being ahead of the slow bureaucracy involved. Its why they ended up with a currency union - to prevent merchants dodge into other currencies. You say the behavior is the same but my point is technological limitations limited same behavior in the past. Every ruler might want total control but they couldnt accomplish the same level in medieval age as they can now due technology.

>>84099 Laugh in Stalinist. It just mean they don't have to kill 0,1% of the population every year anymore. The bad news is that it's now moral to control everything, especially when it is to "fight disinformation" or "hate". The good news is, we have dictators and very few people die. I call this one a progress.

>>83833 Sorry to break it to you but primitive society is unimaginable worse than modern society. Stop drinking the traditionalist "we must return to the good old days!" kool-aid and look at the facts. "erm but the same amount of people die from disease outbreaks now than they did back then" there were way less people back then. If primitive society had the same population as modern society, then the death counts from a simple diesease would be astronomical. Not to mention the horrible living conditions, and barey any forms of entertainment.

>>84216 >If primitive society had the same population as modern society, then the death counts from a simple diesease would be astronomical Because primitive society cannot support the population we have now. Is that meant to be a bad thing? Why is more = better? >Not to mention the horrible living conditions Did you know that until the creation of flouride toothpaste, people in agricultural/industrial society had much worse teeth than people in traditional hunter-gatherer societies? >and barey any forms of entertainment. oh no, not my TV! I might have to come up with interesting things to do with my friends and family! I agree that a return to primitive society would be bad, mostly because bacterial infections suck ass and most traditional remedies for them also suck ass. You've got the absolute worst reasoning that doesn't address any of the points the above poster made.

It's not "anti-science infantilization", it's that science was promoted and sold as cure for all drug when it was heavily skewed, bought out and malformed You only have a huge pile of corporate backed "scientists" that have sold their soul for few pennies to thank for this. >"The chocolate is healthy!!!" >"Wine is healthy!!!" >"90% of scientists believe this" >"OOPS the science changed" The same type of people who are vocal SCIENCE BELIEVERS will whimper out "the science always changes" when you press them on specifics. Yea, "you believe in science", so did the people who trusted that asbestos was okay for insulation. The fact of the matter is that science is getting the treatment it deserves, critique and skepticism. THAT'S IT. No "belief", no "popularity vote", science is made FOR SKEPTICISM AND CRITIQUE. Science doesn't need to be believed in, but used with caution. If you want to believe something, believe God. In fact, I would argue that it's the reason why scientists do bad science today, because compared to scientists of Renaissance they don't believe in God and eternal punishment for their bogus studies.

>>84224 >you should be skeptical of these things, but you should believe in this other thing ok grifter.

>>84233 Your mindless shallow insult and selective skepticism has been noted, my "you should believe in this other thing" was purely sarcastic and rhetorical, but only shows to the level of your understanding of logic The point being, that you completely misunderstood, is that belief systems require belief and science requires skepticism, therefore belief in science is not only redundant but also counterproductive, science thrives when more people are skeptical of it, we get more peer reviewed studied, replicated studies.....

>>84234 >my "you should believe in this other thing" was purely sarcastic and rhetorica Sarcasm doesn't really come out in text, and it was not obvious at all that you were being sarcastic. >science thrives when more people are skeptical of it, we get more peer reviewed studied, replicated studies..... Sure, I quite agree, but if I publish a study and someone else says "nuh uh, you're just a wage slave", regardless of how much evidence has been produced, without actually replicating or often not even reading the study at all, they're not being skeptical in a way that contributes to the scientific process. They are actively harming it when funding decisions are made based more on convincing people like that than providing rigorous scientific justification, which will never sway them.

>>84237 >You can't criticize science without jumping through all our hoops. Science is ivory tower bs, it's all corrupt bs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair It's all based on how popular something is with the people with money and power. Nobody has time to jump through all the hoops, even the scientists don't play by those rules. The rules and hoops only exist to dismiss real people's concerns and observations, they are never used to correct the people with power. Science is not Truth, and Truth is what matters.

>>84238 "All the hoops" in this case being an understanding of the thing you're criticizing? Yeah I think that should be a requirement to be taken seriously. >Sokal affair You know that was a scientist criticizing non-scientists for not being scientific enough, right? He was literally criticizing your position. >It's all based on how popular something is with the people with money and power. If that were true then the theory of evolution would never have been accepted. Scientific progress happens at the same rate that old curmudgeons die, but it does happen.

>>84238 "Science is ivory tower bs, it's all corrupt bs." he typed on the keyboard of his computer. "It's all based on how popular something is with the people with money and power." he noted over the internet. "Science is not Truth, and Truth is what matters." he proclaimed, as electricity powered his lighting. Then he thought about driving his car to Best Buy to look at new smartphones, or maybe just listening to his radio or stereo.

>>84240 you're confusing science with engineering. Rookie mistake.

>>84239 >Sokal submitted an article to Social Text, an academic journal of cultural studies >academic journal of cultural studies >academic journal >academic Social science is an official part of science and academia. It's obvious to most people it's bs because they have some social experience. Other fields are just as bs, but people don't have experience with them so they presume they're accurate. "The Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect." Scientific studies can't be reproduced because they're BS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis

>>84241 No. Without the science, the engineering couldn't follow.

>>84247 Have you ever even programmed before? People are always copy pasting things and doing trial and error with no understanding of anything that's going on. It's the same with all engineering, people largely have no clue and are just trying to refine something with their blood sweat and tears. So many products fail to launch and are complete disasters because people just don't comprehend the field, and worse, frequently because mankind has no true knowledge either.

>>84248 That argument was so dumb, I laughed. Do you really think that without the Babbages, Turings, and von Neumanns to put the science together, invent the hardware, and write the languages, that programmers would suddenly just pop up out of the blue and start hacking together programs? Get a brain, d00d.

>>84237 >"nuh uh, you're just a wage slave" Skepticism =/= denial belief is opposite of skepticism, not denial therefore, we shouldn't believe science, we should be skeptical of it

>>84224 >science isn't always right >hence why you should believe in something unprovable Okay. Btw, both wine and (dark) chocolate are healthy

>>83833 Life before sucked just as much as it does now. Take painkillers, they didn't exist. Imagine the kind of almost sadistic pain you had to endure for the smallest of all operations. The universe largely is like kicking dead whales down the beach and gives you no reason to like it or why it happens. Now, when people actually come up with modern systems and a technology that objectively improves things in certain aspects of life, people like you say that notech was superior. It's not our fault if good tech is also spoiled by evil parties and they're nullifying all the objective net gains to make the overall experience just as bad but in a different way. All you're told is to hope that you don't get hit by bad luck while accepting to reproduce because for some reason that is the thing to do to keep this circus going, all that crap so that sometimes you may experience some genuine happiness while you spend most of your time leading a bland life and somehow managing not to pay attention to the fact that you're down in a lake of piss up to your waist. Whether you approach this real problem from a spiritual perspective or a technological one, there's no denying that it really is like kicking dead whales down the beach in too many ways. Our bodies are frail, we have little to no control over them, we get old and look miserable but we keep deluding themselves by calling this grace, wisdom or any other bizarre absurdities. Worst of all, we are being dispossed of the truest and most literal physical improvements. Duress, pain and despair are growing and spreading everywhere. Modern entertainment doesn't even cut it, people zone out to avoid the nightmare while many ingest drugs to get along. The world is obviously soykaf, even in its natural state. Either you try to opt out in a spiritual way hoping that this solution you've been told to follow will actually deliver, or you put all your eggs in a future that relies on technology succeeding where Nature failed.

>plant grains >12,000 years later >paying taxes to nonces under threat of imprisonment We went wrong somewhere.

>>83799 I believe we are living in a world that has been hijacked by efficiency. We designed all the machines and systems around us to maximize efficiency, but become so efficient in producing goods, comforts, and results that we are forced contrive up new, unnecessary tasks to struggle with. The social, the political, the economic, everything- it's a giant, tangled machine whose every action is geared toward justifying and perpetuating its own existence. If you want a purposeful life right now, you have to seek it completely outside of the system with meaningful, interpersonal relationships. That's harder for some of you than others, but the other option is to roll over and die. Best of luck to you.

Yep, and the age of everything gets pushed back further and further. I remember I could buy tobacco legally for about 3 months before the age got raised. Before long the drinking age will be 25, I bet. The whole world seems to be trying to force your adolescence to last as long as possible. At least where I live.

>>84245 Academia != science. You're actually retarded if you seriously think that, but I suspect you're just groping for any possible defense. >>84284 Okay. Do you agree, though, that to be skeptical of science you should at least understand it?

>>84568 The cause is the fiat system. Central bankers print themself rich like old royalty while you pay for it expressed as inflation. Yearly inflation means a stable income is worth less with each year and you are getting poorer. So you need to earn more yearly just to stay afloat. Next you cant infinitely improve efficiency so everyone resorts to forms of fraud. Companies reduce product quality, trick with packaging size, etc. all just do increase profit because the fiat system forces infinite growth upon them. And its a double wham because incremental taxation on wages means people are taxed yearly more as $1 becomes $10 bills while still being worth $1. Poor people get taxed like a rich person in grandpas time due decades of stacked inflation so they left with even less. And a public without money cant afford to pay more either which further forces companies to produce cheap soykaf efficient.

>>84574 That's exactly what it is. Treating you like a drooling uneducated and easily impressed child. Right around 2009 in my country there already was a 'paper' going round the political groups about the project to "take people by the hand for their whole life". Fifteen years I could pick my bicycle and nobody would harass me because I didn't have tons of protections on scalp, knees and elbows while wearing glaring reflective neon soykaf. Where I live the roads are now littered with signs, saturated with white paint to described where to stand, what line to follow, etc., and I'm not counting the signs on the side of the streets and roads that multiply like cancer. These are also probably used in no minor part to help AIs to autodrive cars. It has downright gotten to ridiculous that trying to decipher all the signs and codes painted, plastered and riveted up down left and right makes you feel nauseous. Meanwhile TV is full of governmental announcements lecturing us on how to do this and that, what citizens should think about in certain conditions, it's downright condescending. Ignoring some forced foreign wars, our grandparents fuarrrking had the good life. Nice sports cars, all chill, a bright future, stable economy, little to no genocidal social engineering, nice music, good looking ladies, a healthy life, very little plastic use, useful technologies without being invasive, etc.

>>84589 > our grandparents fuarrrking had the good life. Nice sports cars, all chill, a bright future, stable economy, little to no genocidal social engineering, nice music, good looking ladies, a healthy life, very little plastic use, useful technologies without being invasive, etc. I'm old enough to be most Lainons grandfather, probably the oldest person on Lainchan. And I can tell you from personal experience that you're absolutely right. And it was probably even better before my time. We had the illusion that since things were great, they'd just keep getting better and better for everyone. Boy were we wrong, and it was a hard pill to swallow. I'd tell you why I think it all got so bad, but you wouldn't believe me. It's too simple. You guys hand in. You never know what's going to happen. My days are numbered, but I wish you guys the best. Never give up.

>>84589 I feel that, man. This safety-padded world isn't for me, but I've grown up in it so I'm like a retarded zoo animal that wouldn't survive in the real world either. >>84590 Thanks, ojiisan.

>>83799 >>84559 >>84589 So tired of these reactionary-types who idealize their made-up version of the past to cope with their life

>>84596 That post was a waste of datapackets and entirely egocentric.

>>84285 You completely misunderstood my argument. I said that whole premise behind science is that science is trustworthy because we critique and are skeptical of it. That we shouldn't blindly believe science or scientists. That most of problems of science is because we blindly trust it. If you want to trust something infallible then it should be God. I will be critical and skeptical of science which makes me much more of scientist than you are. I will require more studies with no corporate backings on wine and dark chocolate. You are a simpleton which only shows with your leap in logic.

>>84590 Well? What do you think the reason is grampanon? I think its a lack of moving from online communities to irl connections causing things to feel disjointed for the average joe cause they havent built a irl foundation. Though theres probably a half dozen reasons that overlap somewhat and this is just one. Smartphones accelerating this feeling by allowing full internet access from anywhere doesnt help either.

>>84576 >Okay. Do you agree, though, that to be skeptical of science you should at least understand it? Do you think that people have such a soykafty understanding of science that they can't read up on it on their own and need to be spoonfed by those intellectually more capable that will interpret it for us? Or if simple "the science always changes" is true then we ought to at least wait a little bit for the science to settle, before we trust it, even if we don't quite understand it

>>84605 This is a nice sentiment but what usually happens in practice when someone goes the route of pure skepticism (which is distinct from scientific thinking -- science is a very particular mode of reasoning which requires accepting certain priors such as causality and an ordered, mechanistic universe), they tend to just amplify their cognitive biases by sticking to their priors until they get a hunch that they should change their mind. See with how people tend to distrust the news, but still believe stories that play to their biases. This form of skepticism is not virtuous in the slightest, it is more often a cognitive defense mechanism to shut out evidence. Not to say scientists are somehow immune to any of this, or that science as an institution is particularly trustworthy, but a rigorous scientific framework at least gives a person the tools to avoid such cognitive pitfalls and obtain knowledge.

>>84607 >Do you think that people have such a soykafty understanding of science that they can't read up on it on their own and need to be spoonfed by those intellectually more capable that will interpret it for us? I think if a person has not read up on it on their own, then their opinion should not carry much weight. A person can very easily think of themselves an expert when all they've done is watch some YouTube videos or read a few magazine articles and maybe read an intro textbook. If you've ever been to grad school you know how little that is. >Or if simple "the science always changes" is true then we ought to at least wait a little bit for the science to settle, before we trust it, even if we don't quite understand it How will you know it's settled without understanding it? A person unfamiliar with newtons theory of gravity would not understand why or how Einstein's theory was accepted.

People have always been lazy, stupid, greedy, selfish and most of all liars. I dont believe the past was different from today, not at its core. All the things we hate today are not new, they are newere forms of what ruled yesterdays socity, digitalization nothing more. After all humans have for time immemorial cligned to false safety in social settings that only served to enrich a few at the cost of all others and most just wanted to get some crumbs and live for as long as they could. Take democracy as the best example, a system where people are convinced that their invalid oppions should be used as a measure of decision making, but it is mob rule disgused as fairness. The truth is that it is the persons who want to believe in this crap are to blame. They are exactly the type that >>84086 picture represents, thoughtless idiots who will echo whatever social dynamics dictates will ensure they can hide the most in the herd that tramples them. Truth is in all ages and times there were the very few who took control and seen the world for what it is and what you can do with it, while the rest are just oppertunists who want to enrich themselfs trough other peoples work who they dont even respect or understand. If anyone ever has read atlas shrugged its exactly the story of the man. A dumb blind hidious mass of empty oppinions and mindless slogans trying to make itself seem relevant and useful when in truth they are only looking for handouts. It is mans lesser but stronger nature towards decadence that brought this forth, they created an environment that breeds weakness and sickness convincing themselfs that their ability to laze around is a step forward and even hailing propaganda such as right to life liberty and happiness, when they know its bullshit left and right, but they want to believe it themselfs. The politicians and corporations are practially coerced into manipulating the public because most people will react emotionally and attached rather than trying to observe and study then find solutions. It is not even the "unscientific" way people view things, most have downright animalistic view of things and simply decide on matters based on pure emotion. After all that has happened in 2020, people still every day go to support this tyrrany with their thoughts and actions despite them being proven that world governments seek to destroy them, they even admit it themselfs, but people rather ignore it and go on, because they simply want to believe that the government and system they built is there for them when the pople were always cattle and they saw it, there is no excuse for people not having woken up.

>>84606 The basic reason for every major problem in the world today, from global warming, to mass immigration, to political instability, to regional conflicts, to insufficient vital resources like water... is something very boring, unpolitical, unexciting, not fun or interesting to think about: overpopulation. How dull! Nothing to fight about. No one to blame. Nothing to inspire passionate ideology. Humankind won't solve this problem before it's too late. But nature will. And it won't be pleasant. That's what one very old man thinks. I hope I'm wrong.

>>84611 >global warming Hoax. >mass immigration Is caused by the combination of a welfare state letting people live without working and 1 person = 1 vote democracy. Mass immigration is a win-win for the migrants and the politicians they vote for, the only losers are the tax slaves who are forced to pay for it but their votes don't matter anyway. >political instability Many causes. >regional conflicts Many causes. Mostly the CIA engineering elections and funding revolutions. Ukraine, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Yemen there is almost no "regional conflict" in recent history that was not the result of US interference. >insufficient vital resources like water The only resource we're lacking is energy and it's an artificial scarcity because the global warming cult are trying to phase out fossil fuels and nuclear power at the same time. >overpopulation Is only a problem for parasites. If everyone is pulling their weight then more people is more winning. >That's what one very old man thinks. A very brainwashed old man.

>>84611 The global population's up, sure, but there's tons of excess. I don't think that's it as much as the concentration of all that excess in veAry few hands. >>84612 I wouldn't necessarily blame the welfare state for mass immigration, since I live in burgerland and we still have mass immigration. Best job I ever had I lost to an immigrant who didn't even speak english who would do it for cents on my dollar. Ultimately global issues are far too complicated to pin on one single thing, but before modern science there really weren't such things as global issues. Not like the precolombian empires gave a soykaf about the fall of rome.

>>84614 >I wouldn't necessarily blame the welfare state for mass immigration, since I live in burgerland and we still have mass immigration. The migrants are getting free transportation, free housing and free food. That's why they're coming. >Best job I ever had I lost to an immigrant who didn't even speak english who would do it for cents on my dollar. If their housing is subsidized by the state that's one reason why they can undercut native workers.

>>84611 I dont buy it. Im no fan of overpopulation, but the sad simple truth is it could work out if people would actually care about efficiency and resource usage. There are tons of products imported from fuarrrk knows where and shipped halfway across the world only for half of it to be thrown away. You wouldnt believe the stuff i find, most of it is perfectely usable and sometimes you even find unopened food in the trash. All the issues you list are and were easely prevented and could even be countered if people would actually care about the environment they live in and no just blindly consume as much as they can then ravage the next stash. Sure its globalists pushing a kind of hoax, but most of these issues would be non issues would people take things into their own hands and not rely on the globalists to run their lifes for them while they drink champagne and ride around in fancy cars. They are just giving ammo to the globalists who seek to destroy them and then they suck their bullshit out of their tits just to feel better about their excessive consumerism. Its true its all fabricated, maybe by the so called globalists, but there is no shortage of people doing stupid soykaf and then the big man gets summoned. The fact is we live in a mindless world full of mindless people, its a mechanical and simple issue, but most people will never grasp anything because they are just dumb reactionaries who will not evaluate things rationally before drawing conclusions.

>>84616 >it could work out if people would actually care about efficiency and resource usage. Why should I consume less just so somebody who produces less can consume more? People either pull their weight or they don't. The ones that don't ... we don't need them.

>>84617 Let's go through all the implicit assumptions being made here! 1) If I don't consume more, then someone else will 2) The people who would consume the stuff I'm not consuming are freeloaders that don't deserve it 3) The amount of resources you have is determined solely by how much people work 4) Consuming more is always a benefit to the consumer

>>84241 engineering is applied math & applied physics & artisanal work..

>>84617 Where do you read anything about using less? I said efficiency and resource usage which doesnt mean less but it means making more of what you have and using as much as you can. In fact if you would have read it trough more you would see that what i am saying is that many products are being made only for the people who buy them be disposed of. As for people pulling their weight, most dont and get away with it. Also who is "we" and why would you need those people in the firstplace, as if they were some property of yours. Now i argue those said people are a general detrement not only to others but mostly also to themselfs, removing detremental elements is one thing, implying others are there for your benefit is "globalist" thinking. Think about why would anyone "work" and "procure" money and then go spend it on something only so you can throw it away, this makes no sense in any way, but i have seen it so many times. Never in my post did i mention anything about people having to use "less", rather the contrary i say people should use their resources more but do so without waste and if there is waste then atleast properly use it like composting for example. Likewise giving materials that you cannot use to someone can would significantly reduce overhead resource usage. Bullshit like this is exactly why all this globalist crap happens, i give a good reasonable perspective, yet people like you who didnt even think trough what they say reply in one line and jump to some sort of far out conclusion. Not only did you just argue completely beyond the point, but you did with egoistical undertones. I dont wanna slam on you too hard for this, but hopefully you can see in this example exactly why all this sort of soykaf is happening. This being lainchan and all im sure in your heart you know better, but you also know that this sort of soykaf is what people really say when confronted with such a situation.

something something 'quality over quantity' something something

Anyone who thinks climate change is a hoax is a brain-dead moron. Fact.

>>84615 Without doxxing myself too hard, the state I live in doesn't do that.

>>84625 But I saw a tiktok repost where a guy showed me a bunch of migrants standing around somewhere and told me that's exactly what they do! Are you questioning the journalistic integrity of George1488?

>>84625 think from immigrant perspective, who knows the law? Some official tells you go there and you get free soykaf and many believe it because nobody knows where to go or how to verify if they speak the language good enough in first place. Why do you think many also go back? The whole system is taking money over taxes to scam foreigners into wageslave jobs to undercut locals, its leadership screwing both immigrant&native workers.

>>84630 I agree with that part. It's literally just advanced union busting under the guise of humanitarianism.

>>84634 europe is overcrowded. Backpacked 3 countries and not once was there a place where i could go a hour without people. There are also maps for forest animals distance to nearest human settlement and the entirety of europe its less than a mile with a few exceptions like alps and a few national reserves. People always consider their present circumstance the norm so they never think of it as bad. From my view we are already in the hive city dystopia. You cant flee in any direction from civilization.

>>84606 But it wasn't much of a problem before if we accept that yes, our societies were already very individualized in some places, often urban places, much less in the country side. The forums were nice and comfy, stable communities. People were not political and mostly cared about things outside of real life horrors. But I saw so many forums suddenly feel a need to tolerate more and more of the political venting and tension in their respective generals and miscs subforums, and some of them went so far as to have political and real news subs too. No surprise, they all suffered massively from this with many splits if not plain closures. Meanwhile the Reddit behemoth and Facebook kept swallowing all these crumbs and aggregated them into the soykaftiest forms of "social" communication pseudo communities ever. The pre-soykaf era was largely due to the fact that as politics were kept out of the loop, they were invisible, so even cultural differences were also veiled. It wasn't perfect but in a way it kind of mimicked the much more perfect state of a huge community living and breathing by the same political and cultural values. Destroying families and pitting son against father, brother against brother, while neighbors wall themselves up, it's all pretty much a sad state of affairs now. The reason people went online as free floating particles was to rebuild communities by aggregating themselves to cores that had a single and clear identity and purpose, but these communities failed being harsh enough to enforce rules and etiquettes that would have allowed them to remain functional through mandatory neutrality. The other problem though is that this would not work forever when the countries and their respective governments IRL pushed hard for massive social changes that would most assuredly shred apart the very population itself. All of it now is one big managed chaos that can't even be allowed to be pure chaos, it's just one fake chaos with one disastrous and poisonous order where corporations and hidden organizations definitely have the final say. In this discount cyberpunk society we live in, very few enjoy sick amounts of wealth and revel in pleasurable vices by maintaining a global system that is purulent and hurtful to all the other groups of people.

>>84653 "Order out of chaos" its how they operate. They create the chaos, then they shape the chaos and force their order out of it. They create the problem, then they sell and mandate the "solution". It's freemasonic tactics.

>>84657 Thing is, chaos has no sides. We can and should use it too.

>>84597 It's entirely the truth. Why is the US a place people flock to, while nobody wants to go to live in Afghanistan which is actively banning modern things with the goal of returning to the 7th century? You do not understand what you have, and your view of the past is heavily distorted by your wish to escape your life. You do not for a moment consider that maybe life was never meant to be great in the first place, that life is inherently faulty, inherently violent, inherently a competition for resources of every kind, inherently a bad thing. Instead you choose to cope with the faulty idea that the past is better than the present.

>>84677 >Why is the US a place people flock to Because your government destroys their countries. Entire middle east went to soykaf by US hands. Arab spring being the most famous example - destroyed democratic gov installing religious fanatics because the democrats refused giving away resources and religious extremists agreed to pay for the throne. They lived like west and now have it way worse.

>>84677 The united states is the whore of the world. People go there because it offers deceitful promises and illusions of prosperity and power.

>>84679 Maybe your argument would have merit if Iraqis were coming to the US by the million, but that's not the case. When did the US last bomb Mexico? Or India? Or China? Or the EU? >>84680 What illusions of prosperity? The United States has the biggest gdp in the world, and has the 6th biggest gdp per capita, with only two micro-nations and three countries with a much smaller population in front of it. There is no other country where a common person can get rich as easily as in the US. Name a single country which offers actually truthful promises of prosperity and power, if the US is being deceitful in your opinion.

>>84698 mexico? US armed gangs and enabled the present state. ~60s cia got caught being part of the drug trade. China/Taiwan? US was part of the government overthrow that created the current one. EU? Refuge crisis? US. Energy crisis? US.

>>84702 You're highly delusional. You disregard the obvious and actual reason that US attracts people by its wealth and standard of living. Why go to the country that ruined them in particular? What's the reason? Why not go to Afghanistan instead in search of a simple life? According to your logic (unless you came to the thread to complain about the US), US "ruining" these countries is actually good thing because reduces the amount of technological progress.

>>84703 You just butthurt. You wanted to brag how everyone comes to greatest country and i replied actually its cause you wrecked other options. Its only good in comparison cause you destroyed alternatives.

>>83799 >"infantilization" >expected something like pic-related (e.g. Zoomerspeak, childish clickbait content, cartoon animals for adults, TikTok brainrot, memes in ads, safe-edgy humour, Fortnite making violence kid-friendly, dumbing down of society, oversimplified infotainment, the rise of computer illiteracy, political activists being overconfident in things they don't know about, omnipresent Twitter art style, lust-provoking anime pics on 4chan) but got a semi-blogpost instead not even what I had in mind, I don't even give a soykaf about the news, also don't be afraid to decompile proprietary software and rewrite your own if you hate their updates so much…

>>84708 forgot to mention PopSci and AI tools, whatever

>>84708 Uh, morrowind is based actually

>>84677 The choice is either >go grotto fuarrrk goat or >transfagism 2047 Now imagine taking control of the tech and making a feel good society freed from the confusing clash of ideas and ideologies. >>84702 >~60s cia got caught being part of the drug trade. Some fifteen years ago or more there was this pilot crossing the frontier with a Cesna I think, caught by the US authorities. He was CIA. The plane was full of dope. The money goes to dark funds needed for special ops.

>>84679 >Because your government destroys their countries. That's dumb. If Russia destroyed your country would you travel 5000 miles to live in Moscow?

>>84810 If Russia went as far as to destroy my country, it's because Russia loves me so Russian would welcome me. >>then Russia takes in Ukrainian refugees and houses them close to the Ukrainian border so they can become the first casualties of NATO attacks. >>evillaughter.jpg

>>84810 russian people went to live in US just when ukraine war started... its actually happening right now germans also went living everywhere when germany was totaled post ww2. Whole point of immigration is leaving your country behind to improve your own situation. If you were that patriotic you wouldnt think about running in first place

i vomit on all of your ignorant, schizophrenic political stupidity.

Lmao my reply got deleted. I'll just repost the most important part. >>84823 And I have a confused boner!

>>84820 >germans also went living everywhere when germany was totaled post ww2. You do not want to go there unless you're ready to talk about Germans taken by force out of Germany, or those prevented from leaving when parked in American camps on German soil that make the German concentration camps look like leisure palaces.

>>84706 I don't even live in the US, I can just see objective facts that you for some reason are unable to see. How has the US ""wrecked"" other options when you haven't proved that, let's say for the case of Europe since it's the easiest, migrants are the reason the EU's economy's not as good as the US? Wouldn't the reason be that the US innovates more and regulates less? You have a proposition and you're looking for some nonsense to justify it. Also, if you want to use migration as the reason for why the EU's doing worse than the US, what about the Southern border of the US? The illegal crossings there have been a problem for a long time, but for some reason, these immigrants are not problem in the US.

>>84706 >Mad that the US wins all it's wars >Calling other people butthurt Stay mad loser, we'll fuarrrkin' do it again, too. You can join the winning team any time you want.

>>84905 >we lmao, disposable cattle thinks its winning

>>84906 >We are winning >Plural >"Think's it's winning" >It >Singular I said we are winning, not that I am winning. You(singular) and you(plural) are losing, lmao, nice try at semantics though but you've(plural) been beaten by your superiors yet again. Life isn't just about you(singular), fam. That's why WE are winning, because WE're not insufferable little narcisistic babies that cry over losing. Because that's what you're(plural) doing, whining that someone(plural) stronger then you(plural) beat you(plural) over and over again. Grow up and get right or we'll beat you again, and again. What'll you do, send a suicide bomber? How childish.

>>84908 people look at this soykaf the same way you look at the chinese nationalist rants. Hopefully that can be processe

>>84909 Nah I was just trolling that kid for being strangely reactionist to global political hegemony, a very teenaged mentality. What's he gunna start bitching about next, that Christmas is a pagan holiday? Then I'll start preaching mass. And maybe when he realizes that ideology is liquid, he'll realize that he himself is a nebulous disenfranchised ego and everything he believes in isn't necessarily paternal, either; The machine really is beautiful if you can step away from yourself being crushed by it's gears. It's wrong to point at the gear crushing you and pretend it's not the entire machine driving those forces. My actual philosophy is that there will be a winner who will control the planet, though, and to be honest we need the Operation Paperclip mentality that ignores ideology and exclusively selects, protects and funds the best humans to solicit human advancement. Oh he's a nahtze? He'll be dead in 40 years, just keep him at his fuarrrking desk studying DNA. The guy that invented chemotherapy, saving millions of lives? Keep that racist serial killer in the lab, literally saving hundreds of thousands of the people he hated. Invalidating scientific precedent because of individual ideology is so laughably stupid it belongs in the OP, because it's another example of removing the thought process to instantiate the thoughtless. Likewise, we need to bully the thoughtless, to instantiate thought. >waaaah free palestine santa clause isn't real they LIED to me about the tooth fairy anime taught me every human life matters

>>84913 Human advancement in service of what? So far your only positive example of compromising with what you deem to be evil, showing you have no ideals, is having a guy create chemotherapy, a treatment which at best only gives patients a couple more years to live while they wither away, and often kills them outright. A treatment most people have to bankrupt themselves to even afford, so that even if the treatment saves them they will be enslaved to debt - all in the wonderful land of America, a country so much better than any other, so much more advanced, with a tenth of the populace living in poverty, and one percent of it incarcerated, and more and more people forced onto the streets each day; with its bridges collapsing, trains derailing, and victims of natural disasters left to die. You don't believe in anything, you exist only to feel superior to others. You get a kick out of upsetting people over the internet, maybe you don't even believe the idiotic things you say. Nothing better to do? Why else would you ignore the evidence of other countries being soykafty because they are and were destabilized by America? Maybe you are so blind to reality, maybe you have your head buried in the sand, maybe you believe in the bullshit. You see none of the profits this brutal hegemony makes screwing you and every common person on earth over, you benefit in nationality only, but you have to leave America to even enjoy it.

>>84914 >chemotherapy, a treatment which at best only gives patients a couple more years to live while they wither away, and often kills them outright If you catch the cancer late or get unlucky, sure. My dad had chemotherapy and he's healthy, goes on hikes, etc. And he has no detectable levels of cancer as of a few weeks ago.

>>84916 Mine got destroyed by it, I also lost an aunt to, and I lost a young female friend to chemo ten years ago when she was in her early 20s. I'd try anything else before going into chemo. It's a russian roulette.

>>84914 The same claim can be made of most western countries and as we saw post lockdown of most of its citizens who still think their governments "care". People keep wanting to believe in those cheap childish lies and will do anything to cover up the truth so as to not think or take action and therefor have an excuse to remain in their comfort zones. I dont know why or how come the united state stretched its influence so far. I know the trillateral commision and the councel of foreign relations started a lot of soykaf. Coca cola and rock and roll came a far ways, but the real question is why. To be honest no matter how you look at things it seems the world and mankind is a dumb mechanical computer like construct that can be manipulated just by pulling the right strings.