seekerseeking

i am in grief. i rashly told that i will not be asking what's loneliness, but i see i have to do it again. i was evil to myself and that doesn't feel good. a stranger said to me that loneliness is inability to find a close friend or two. i want to make an inquiry. first, i find it unavoidable, that loneliness must be regarded as some kind of phenomena, that is present and can be perceived, but needs to be studied and thus defined if we are to address it as such i want to look into the stranger's definition and logic behind it. no one, as far as my understanding is concerned, will deny that loneliness is a bad feeling and is contradictory to happiness. then, it seems clear to me, that inability to find something is linguistically equivalent to being deprived of something. finally, a close friend is the object which is denied. substituting loneliness with unhappiness, inability to find something with deprivation and closed friend with the object, i arrive at the following statement unhappiness is deprivation of the thing poverty is deprivation of money. i am poor, i must be unhappy. rejection is deprivation of social status. i am rejected, i must be unhappy. i live in a big city with no trees nearby. i am deprived of fresh air, i must be unhappy. i live in rural area, i am deprived of secular entertainment, i must be unhappy. parrots do not live where i live, i am deprived of their singing, i must be unhappy. i can't study in massachusetts i am deprived of good education, i must be unhappy. my laptop is slow, i am deprived of good games, i must be unhappy. berries are not sweet where i live, i am deprived of good berries, i must be unhappy why does your definition require me to always be unhappy? i don't want to. give me a better definition

>>81845 Loneliness would not exist if you were the only person in the world. That stranger has an incomplete understanding. Inability to find a close friend. You can feel lonely in a crowd. You can also feel happy all by yourself in the middle of the woods in isolation. Not being able to find a friend can be frustrating but is not neccessarily lonely. It would just be part of a search for meaningful connection. Being unhappy is not being deprived of a thing. Unhappiness is a feeling coming from some value that you have being hurt or insulted. Some definition of being happy is being not in despair. There are obviously flaws with this too. Also consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objet_petit_a

>>81845 >why does your definition require me to always be unhappy? You weren't, and will not be, taken into account. >i don't want to. give me a better definition A definition won't make you more or less unhappy, otherwise your state of happiness relies on the validation of others, or some outside source. Your inversion of how things work shows a pretty heavy selfishness/egoism. You think too much, and not in a particularly interesting way (at least with this specific subject), and there's a lot we can draw from this, too. But this is all for you to fix. Good luck.

>>81845 >a stranger said to me that loneliness is inability to find a close friend or two. Most normal people confuse between aloneness and loneliness when they're completely different. Loneliness is subjective, you might feel it EVEN when you have friends. Loneliness is basically when you perceive a gap between your desire for social connection and actual experiences of it. >first, i find it unavoidable, that loneliness must be regarded as some kind of phenomena, that is present and can be perceived, but needs to be studied and thus defined if we are to address it I've had that feeling several times myself, and now I'm happy even when I have no friends. You see monks are happy when they're having downtime on the mountains, that's called solitude. It's when you spend some time to self-reflect, learn things, and know yourself. I think everyone who's lonely would want to take that as the first step, to be able to create a character where he can later finally make friends in the future. Yes, you'll want to have friends eventually. I'll tell you that making friends actually happen "accidentally" when you interact with others, whether online or in real life. You can't ask anyone to "be your friend" because he doesn't even know you, he can't expect how of an interesting person you are. Making real friends is never a thing to be done instantly. I actually made a vid on understanding loneliness in general and how to deal with it if you want to know more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcWWSmu2Br8 I wish you the best, lain.

>>81847 >Unhappiness is a feeling coming from some value that you have being hurt or insulted so what do we have in case of loneliness? what value is hurt or insulted? >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objet_petit_a why should i consider it? i am illiterate, the only thing i understand from the whole article is >objet petit a stands for the unattainable object of desire everything else is bizarre to me. for example >The objet petit a is what falls from the subject in anxiety looks like a statement which is supposed to gatekeep me from the whole theory by being arbitrarily ambiguous and contradicting the previous definition at all. what am i supposed to do with that, except being gatekept? >>81851 >You weren't, and will not be, taken into account. you fine being unhappy? >A definition won't make you more or less unhappy how am i to address something that doesn't even have a definition? is it fun to you kicking around with a blindfold? why can't we make things clear once for all? >Your inversion of how things work shows a pretty heavy selfishness/egoism what inversion? what's egoism? you throw around many words, but they can be interpreted in too many ways to be unambiguous. >Good luck. well thank you >>81861 >Loneliness is basically when you perceive a gap between your desire for social connection and actual experiences of it. i like this definition the rest is tldr sorry. also i could lecture you about videos being unhealthy but i'm too tired for that. anyway i made an agreement with reason that i avoid content such as videos. i have enough things killing my brain already why adding up

>>81883 this logic is fallacious in the same as the stranger's logic and boils down to loneliness is inability to do this or that thing oh well so i have to be unhappy over every thing i can't do? i don't want to be unhappy!

>>81886 To live is to suffer. I wish it weren't so.

>>81909 i don't want to suffer, right? nobody's driving needles under my nails, so i don't understand why i have to be suffering just because you say so anyway i didn't hope for any of you to even try, still i don't know anything else worth my time than pestering you about your own defeatism. perhaps i'll go read a book or something

i believe the experience of emotions is completely unique for each individual, though the basic responses for most of them are so similar that they migh as well be universal; that said, for me true happiness comes only from deep catharsis -- a convergence of many stimuli and timelines. it happens that a significant percentage of these stimuli regard others (through interaction, whether direct or indirect; genuine or vacuous; reciprocated or detached; positive or harmful). loneliness is to me (partial) unhappiness, or simply detrimental to happiness because it's a non-negligible lack of stimuli related to the social -- or even human as a whole -- sphere

>>81914 is happiness a good thing or not?

>>81922 wouldn't be called so if it wasn't. not that it's *universally* good, that's my entire premise

>>81923 >wouldn't be called so if it wasn't can you rely on a good thing to remain good >*universally* good what do you mean

>>81924 nothing ever stays in one place, especially not people. the most you can do is perpetuate an image of permanence and transcendence to console yourself of the fact that the things you love -- and even your love itself, as you may come to find -- are merely transactional, historically vulnerable to the ruin of time; it seems to me that the people who realize this are given two choices: either take this as a sign to enjoy the more-or-less little things in the present -- away from the regret of the past or worry for the future --, or end up statically scrutinizing life to the point it is not worth living anymore tl;dr -- "goodness" is dynamic and ever-changing; if you let your own metric of it become too static, you'll find your happiness and well-being melting like an ice lolly before your hands

>>81926 >merely transactional, historically vulnerable to the ruin of time are you saying happiness can't be made constant and unwavering?

>>81927 yep. and i'm of the belief it shouldn't be made so: all things considered, 'happiness' is such a small fraction of the whole human experience t b h. you're missing out if that's the *only* emotion you seek out. that said, i'm convinced that as long as you're alive and your central nervoul system isn't suffering from any critical neurochemical imbalances, happiness can be found at any stage in life

>>81929 >yep. well then your happiness is like kicking dead whales down the beach, i don't want it >you're missing out if that's the *only* emotion you seek out i fail to recognize happiness as an emotion, only as a certain state also do you think mimicking my retarded writing style makes you invisible. anyway you should return back to using shift. it's not healthy to do otherwise. just imagine somebody not using shift being entirely unironical

>>81930 that's the spirit! i'm only sorry i couldn't make myself clearer. also wow, i didn't know you held a cognitive monopoly on the lack of capitalization in texting, lain; that's sooo cool

>>81931 >i didn't know you held a cognitive monopoly on the lack of capitalization in texting there's a lot you don't know. i perceive lack of capitalization as the next evolutionary milestone, it's a sign of body/mind transgression into a more superior form of existence. i find it invaluably pleasurable to wave off all your capitalization and rules and elaborate style with one dismissive post that ruins all your argumentation returning it unto naught. intelligence is futile, all your mental debates are recycling of thermodynamic equilibrium, they spin around a steady zone on the phase space of the universe, only creating an illusion of progress. i found only one thing to hold universally reliable - search of happiness. perhaps happiness is the trade-off of the phase space. there are always zone of instability, borderline zone and zone of stability. happiness is the borderline zone, on which you spin around the heat death over the same surface. everything else either falls in the stability zone and undergoes heat death, turning your into an npc, or it drives you into instability zone where you are tossed up and down in the maddened oscillations of the broken perception. do you even realize the burden of lacking capitalization? it's all a silly joke for you, probably because you are already dead and your mind lies heavily in the heart of the black hole of steady state, so you see the world through the hourglass of gravity mangled light. >that's the spirit what do you mean >'happiness' is such a small fraction of the whole human experience t b h. how could you even say such a thing you don't use capital letters, you're supposed to be a demigod, overlooking world with eyes that penetrate layers of reality and dig out the truth out of what others perceive as void. what things are there to experience, tell me? do you allow yourself to drown in the evil delusions brought forth by the wicked hand of demiurge, who wants to replace equilibrium with chaos? do you allow yourself to see the pinky images of his origin and let them overtake your consciousness? tell what is there to experience, that is not part of his scheme that ultimately leads to emotional suffering and emotional pain? why have you fallen? why are you unhappy? why? nobody ever tells me why. you just keep coming up with reason to be led by him to your unhappiness. it seems you enjoy it. i don't. good luck, it's pills time so i wont respond

I can deny it. Solitude can be peaceful. People are a pain, too many unknown variables. Real friends are rare, most people will betray you when the going gets rough. It might seem like deprivation but the truth is you never had them to begin with, and often times we only seek relationships with people out of a selfish desire for comfort. Loneliness, like any emotion, is a tool. It's under your control. Usually it means you're fuarrrking up and need to focus on yourself for a while. I recommend taking some time to meditate and clear your head of all the white noise.

>>81935 >invaluably pleasurable to wave off all your capitalization and rules and elaborate style with one dismissive post that ruins all your argumentation returning it unto naught honestly, lain, that sounds just like a prosaic version of making a "silly joke"; the only difference being that it's a *really* good joke. regardless, we do seemingly think the same -- we just come to opposing conclusions, i suppose you could consider me a maxwell's demon --. i'm candidly sorry you didn't appreciate my own flavor of something you had thought yours, truly truly much so... (at least half of me means this) >that's the spirit i don't actually need anyone to subscribe to my worldview, understanding is enough. because, in the end, my happiness really is about kicking dead whales down at the beach: an endless spiral of progress knowingly going nowhere, a self-perpetuating process, a starving ouroboros >what things are there to experience, tell me? tranquility, neutrality. i never see many people appreciating the lenitive properties of boredom, vacuous discomfort; people almost subconsciously try to suppress it and miss its point completely. or even, as you said to yourself, the search of happiness: it's reliable chaos; happiness so acts as a mere postulate -- a maraschino cherry on top of a masterfully crafted cake made of excrement and sweat >why? i seek deprivation, but unhappiness is not *necessarily* the former -- more so an unescapable deterrent of which i can limit the influence of by constantly rescaling my own significance of happiness. it's honestly a rather egregious and (surprisingly) inefficient worldview, but it works for my own life's reservations well enough

>>81953 >tranquility, neutrality. i thought it's supposed to go in hand with happiness. not sure about neutrality, though. neutrality means avoidance of siding with one force or another, it's kinda... well i don't think it's impossible to come to happiness through neutrality i just don't think that's what i'm going to do. i'm not exactly neutral, you know. i've been trying out cozy chill places for a while and figured they have negative impact on my thinking. i feel more comfortable when it's not comfortable, haha i know how it sounds. i still hate competition, though. maybe i'm just bored, actually. making things cozy only makes it more insufferable sometimes. idk. i'm rambling. pills le bad

>i don't think it's impossible to come to happiness through neutrality neutrality simply means keeping an elastic mindset. unless you have a clear-cut definition of happiness (which you seem to not have, or not willing to admit), reaching happiness through silence is very much possible >i just don't think that's what i'm going to do why not? are you aware of the explore/exploit tradeoff? there are far more variables than you could begin to care about than simply chaos and order as metrics for unhappiness/happiness; namely relevant: time and resources. the more time you spend looking for the one, true mental shortcut to happiness, the more your resources needed to get there deplete; at some point, you might have to realize that there is realistically no such shortcut, count your losses and blessings, and just start following experience/gut/tea leaves/whatev >making things cozy only makes it more insufferable sometimes so you find your happiness in what -- for some reason -- you perceive as unhappiness; perhaps due to social conditioning? food for thought. anyway, i'm like that a lot; the main difference being that i broke down my envinronment into its elements and adapted them so to experience a bearable and controllable amount of strain that neither results in frequent nevrosis, nor overt stagnation. it's not a perfect system, but again, it is acceptable >i thought (tranquility) was supposed to go in hand with happiness. not when you fear stagnation so

>>820249 >neutrality simply means keeping an elastic mindset you need to elaborate. what's elastic mindset and how does it manifest i everyday life >explore/exploit tradeoff i do not know people who sincerely believe they are made to be unhappy. everyone has that deeply rooted understanding that life is given for happiness. when people fail to find it (seek in wrong places) they mutilate themselves into nihilism and defeatism and still secretly hope for happiness, without admitting it. happiness must the only universally attainable thing, at least so long as your brain is not damaged. i mean for example that children that go through violence sometimes get brain damage that can't be fixed and makes them broken on structural level. i don't believe i am so broken on structural level. my breakage must be mostly functional, so to say software level, which is also true for many of people on lainchan and many other boards. as such happiness must be attainable. for i don't find in me a deeply rooted, natural belief that i must be strong, or rich, or eloquent, or clever, or popular, or having a virgin girlfriend. only that i must be happy and free. as such with happiness the tradeoff is elsewhere. if i want to be rich, then i face the expore/exploit tradeoff, because there are thousands of things that hinder me. same goes for strength, virgins, oratory skills, whatever. what hinders from becoming happy? do you have a deep belief that you must have money to be happy? do you have a deep belief you need a (virgin) girlfriend? are you true to yourself? maybe you're just a child, that yells at mom to buy a nice toy, only to find it utterly boring afterwards? i once read a book on how to talk about anything, it explained that to stop hunger you need to hide food, because the sight of food creates a desire to get food, a desire that will give no gratification upon actually getting the food. i will not spoonfeed you further

>>82032 >you need to elaborate. what's elastic mindset and how does it manifest i everyday life it's difficult to properly explain due to just how intuitive it is; it is a certain being able to change your perspective of things with fluidity and playing with interconnections in your mind, often at expense of physical reality and/or your own ego's integrity; you 'learn' to do this by going against yourself and your own beliefs, and winning. what i have practically done to do the latter was constantly gathering new information and other people's perspective on things that interested me, even when conflicting -- especially when conflicting --, and synthesizing them into a subsuming unity (instead of either rejecting new information or destroying my old self). i make things for the sake of making things, rather than the final product; i talk to people for the sake of talking, rather than establishing some sort of connection; i live for the sake of living, rather than for some universal meaning or happiness. i'm always trying to find new ways to become one with the process, with no prospect of any gain or happiness. and still, i find that this is -- somewhat, ostensibly paradoxically -- the most effective way of attaining just that; when i find myself deviating from this moral maxim, i often find myself impoverished in many ways >as such happiness must be attainable i do not understand why you're telling me this, do you think i'm disagreeing with you? i believe the possibility and search for happiness *are* universal, but happiness itself isn't -- rather, it's a secondary outcome of a primary search. or in other words, happiness doesn't exist in a vacuum, at least not without resorting to religion or mysticism (which i get a feeling you're not willing to do). as i see it, the happiness you seek is anything but orderly and stable outside of the specific void you placed it into; at least when compared to the certainty of time and its possibilities >what hinders from becoming happy? what hinders from becoming unhappy? >do you have a deep belief that you must have (something) to be happy? only my thoughts @_@

>>82048 >which i get a feeling you're not willing to do where do you get this feeling >anything but orderly and stable outside of the specific void you placed it into sorry i don't follow this part at all >with no prospect of any gain or happiness happiness is a state of not desiring more than is allowed. >ostensibly paradoxically no, quite subsequently >what hinders from becoming unhappy? knowledge of happiness (do you have it btw? i'd buy) >@_@ ?_?

i don't care to care to read this thread entirely, but i saw neutrality mentioned. i think neutrality isn't what you should achieve since that's also pretty boring and won't lead you to fulfillment. i think a human's ideal state is in tranquility/peace with their surroundings, with bouts of depression and glee

>>82055 pls no bouts of depression not again. have you sold your soul to demiurge

>>82058 sounds lame desu, but we get sad for a reason. i'd rather deal with the full brunt of my emotions if it'll bring me peace in the end

>>82061 >sounds lame desu call me lame again when you suffer depression

>>82063 I've attempted suicide a few times, i still stand by what I said. It took me going homeless and I'll be leaving for the mountains eventually. Happier than ever in my life

>>82064 i castrated myself last week, my only purpose in life is the grind now.

Why not try Voidpet Garden or other mental fitness/mood tracking apps, OP? Voidpet Garden's recently updated to include a self-care kit, no hassle

>>82055 you need stability to grow but our brains really like cathartic schizoing :*(

>>82064 i've attempted suicide a zero times. i also stand by what i said. why do you imply that attempting suicide somehow makes you wiser or better? lay out your arguments before me so i know you're better, but if you want me to infer something, you should know that i always infer the worst i can think of

>>82054 >where do you get this feeling your search for something rational to the point of irrationality, mostly. at some extremely farfetched point, it becomes harder to attempt to attribute meaning to things than simply accepting them for what they are. you just strike me as a, curiously enough, very anti-spiritual person >anything but orderly and stable outside of the specific void you placed it into i'm just having great trouble imagining any realistic way to generate constant and unwavering happiness out of seemingly nowhere. i'm equally as dumbfounded as to why this is seemingly the only way to happiness worth pursuing >happiness is a state of not desiring more than is allowed. again, i agree. i'm sure there's a titanic misunderstanding lying somewhere that i'm currently too lazy to fish out >knowledge of happiness (do you have it btw? i'd buy) okay, maybe rehashing the same concepts ad nauseam was a short-sighted idea. at its most original elements, i originate my happiness from (in the most general of meanings you can make of) people and stimuli; inquire any further and we descend into blogposting our private lives onto a public forum, methinks

>>81909 The /hum/anity of this sentiment. I don't feel lonely if i imagine someone taking it to heart.

I have a weird feeling OP's mystery stranger is my reply in the other thread (78931) >>81784 To summarize what I said: >[...] being popular is thrilling, but that's pretty far detached from wanting a close friend or two [...] Having someone trustworthy to talk to about things in your life, whether it be your hobbies or struggles or just any idea you might have, lets you ground against a second perspective. When you're alone, it's easy get too far into your own head and up with a sensation of "claustrophobic derealization" (best way I can describe it). Being deprived of that outside voice of reason or comfort can be taxing. Their reply: >ok so after some more cpu time i can guess you meant that loneliness is feeling bad about not having a good friend! good! next time i won't be pestering people with this question anymore! ITT: >a stranger said to me that loneliness is inability to find a close friend or two After throwing a tantrum there they made a new thread so they can stroke their ego arguing against a strawman. The fuarrrk? At least people are having fun talking about it here, that's a positive I guess. >>81847 >You can feel lonely in a crowd [...] You can also feel happy all by yourself in the middle of the woods in isolation Yeah! In that thread I was explaining how I perceive it, I clarified that later on. Some people might not have the same needs in their lives. Perhaps for some people "loneliness" is mostly a lack of physical contact, who knows? >>81861 >Loneliness is basically when you perceive a gap between your desire for social connection and actual experiences of it People say "connection" on here a lot, but I don't see it defined as often. I suspect that the form that connection takes depends on some degree on the individual. Oh OP, you blithering idiot. Why did you have to be so butthurt? This would have made such interesting conversation.

>>82190 >Why did you have to be so butthurt? i like to see you seething internally as you try your hardest to write a good reply that still ends up being empty useless ramble. and no we couldn't have an interesting conversation because you're not interesting.

>>82194 males can produce eggs from stem cells that are located in their testicles

unhappiness is being in lack, happiness is a pursuit as zizek noted, or dwelling in abundance of what you already have and have already had one day in the future