How do you defy fate?

In my early 20s I saw this scene and felt despair at how depressing an outcome like this is. I, like many people I guess, thought I would avoid it because I have self-awareness and dreams. Even though I showed a lack of self-control all my life I thought that I had the power right then and there to take charge of my life. Fast forward to 30 and that's me. But now that I can look back it seems inevitable that I ended up this way. No talents to give me the small successes to push me forward, health problems so tired all the time, no clear goals, interested in a lot of things and yet in none, no friends so no one cares if I don't leave my home for a month and surrounded by instant gratification activities like imageboards and video games... the best predictor for future behavior is past behavior so any impulse I feel to change feels like self-delusion at this point when I still had hope that I have potential in my 20s. I still feel like theoretically I am in control of myself yet it's a safe bet that I will waste this day again and the next day... I want to be a human and take charge of my life but I keep being held down by all these uncomfortable sensations and I have no clear direction and I don't know if one I can follow with 100% confidence and no doubts even exists. I'm afraid that if I decide to go one direction I will change my mind in the middle of it but now I'm too old to waste any time. So I am in limbo and just occupy my mind with entertainment so I don't think about reality and the future.

>>81151 You don't. Amor Fati.

Only on lainchan will you find questions like this. "How do I defy fate?" "Anyone want to get together to build a satellite?" "How do I contact aliens through dreams?"

>>81151 >no clear goals, interested in a lot of things and yet in none Shut up and watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rJNYT56HIo I know, I'm kinda spamming it, but really it's about how to know your own long-term goals and realistically achieve them through small wins. It is working for me btw >No talents to give me the small successes to push me forward Whenever you have a problem learn to solve it. Literally everything is online (especially books) and I believe talents are a lie since everyone was born a blank slate. >no friends I don't have friends either, but I'm happy to be alone in solitude. Not saying you shouldn't have friends, but really you may want to know yourself a bit first and fixing your life before looking up for other lain friends. (who, btw, will like you ONLY if you've been altruistic to them expecting nothing in return, kinda paradoxical but this is how it works) If you can't resist temptation, think of it like: IF the thought of temptation came to my head, THEN I ignore it completely. Over time you'll rewire your brain to work for you. Whenever you do something or not, you've already taken a decision. Don't do the thing until you "feel like it" because you never will.

>>81156 Nah, every skizo forum have the last two. >>81151 OP, what even do you call feeling alive? Was it owning material wealth, traveling around like an instagram whore? As a dad I recommend having kids, the first one changed my place in the grand scheme of things. And here is my second advice: never try to find social approbation. Cool people do X, you are told, but do you want to do X?

Couldn't find anything interesting to reply to, so I guess I just reiterate and remind everybody that people, who communicate information through (YouTube) videos are low IQ glitterboys. Visual material is only needed to explain concepts, which can not be described in text, for example Euclidian geometry, or a drawing of a detail or a circuit. Real world interactions are only needed to help get over the hard theoretical parts. In all other cases it's low IQ glitterboyry, because if you can't express yourself in text in a plausible manner, you're low IQ glitterboy. Deal with it.

>>81161 Nevermind, it's just a bit long to explain on text. If you don't know what to do, the first step is to sit in your room for 2 hours straight without distractions. Sounds weird but it can be life-changing since you look inside your head and your creativity grows. >you're low IQ glitterboy. Well that's how you think videos are; it doesn't really matter where you took the advice at the end of the day. If you apply what you know will be the best for you, just do it.

>>81151 You don't have to defy fate because fate doesn't exist. The moment you stop limiting yourself with false fixed-minded beliefs you will be able to grow and achieve much. Start by building some small positive atomic habits. You will grow, that is the true nature of people.

At 30 I see life as strictly past tense. It's already over, it was over long ago. I'm essentially an angel of death created to help this body and mind to realize they already died, let go, and move on. It's actually quite possible that I am literally dead, and this is a purgatory created from memories and imagination at the point of death. Basically a life review where I'm trying to force the original to remember and accept the truth, or simulate a changed outcome that will cause it to understand the unrest and suffering it experienced in life. This is how to free it from its cage of misery, and to bypass the life instinct function so I can drive it back into the ground where it belongs. It needs to wrap things up and I'm apparently here to help with that.

>>81199 I absolutely hate, and I do mean hate, weird oversimplified preachy "psychological molestation"-esque charts like these. The most disgusting type of motivational material to be produced by this broken and aimless era.

>>81201 Sorry, not persistence. Perseveration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseveration?useskin=vector

>>81201 People like a feeling of doing morally good things in the age of the decline of religion. Whenever someone makes an 'improve yourself' thread that's what they're really asking for.

>>81207 mother nature is taking back what was once stolen from her.natural selection and feminism is all that will be left.No more enlightenment or ubermensch.

>>81207 They're NPCs as far as I'm concerned. Or they're rape victims that are so raped for so long that they have no awareness of it, and pass on the byproducts of their rape, unfiltered and unquestioned. Yes there is the feel good "We can do it!!" quasi-religious impulse, but this is only a superficial layer. >>81208 >feminism The answer actually is unironically rape culture.

>>81201 the chart and your take are both 50/50. obviously you need to try to win and mastery of any subject requires a boring grind you need to commit to so they got that right. On the reverse listening to people is a save way to fail because most are retards themselves and give bad advice if not even intentionally trying to make you fail due crab bucket mentality.

>>81209 >The answer actually is unironically rape culture. Answer in the sense of describing what already exists, rather than what needs to be implemented. We've pretty much reached a sort of brutalism about it, but people still can't see it.

>>81209 >>81211 honestly every man that is braindead to the point of raping a female deserves it.They risk going to jail for getting their pp feeling half good. Natural selection at work i suppose.

>>81212 Yeah, you're an example of a product of feminist contaminated culture. Rape has nothing to do with women or the physical act itself. It's all about penetration for the purpose of planting a seed. Whether that be by sitting a child in front of a television for the content to molest their mind until they finally nullify any resistance of the conscious mind, and then move on to the rape proper, turning their unconscious into a womb to fertilize. Or hypnotic and obnoxious music playing in all the stores you go to. Or the sexual dominance initiation ritual that is penetrating a child with a phallic object and ejaculating a bunch of fluid in them over and over, I mean, vaccinating them. All rape. It's rape culture. Through and through. Everything you experience day to day in this soykafhole planet full of broken golem that submit to rape either through ignorance or the belief that being raped is required for the chance to rape others.

>>81213 i am not attracted to women and i hate natural selection.i rather be playing with my male friends on flowered fields than spending time with women lol

>>81151 I have increasingly felt this way myself as I watch my 20s come to an end, realizing that I have in many ways not progressed at all since my early 20s. in fact, in many ways I feel worse, like I relapsed on all my worst tendencies, and it's happened gradually, over a period of several years and many setbacks in my life that have also left me completely dejected and tired with no ability to have hope for the future in even the most basic things that qualify for having some kind of normal life in our current civilization like having a career or a partner. but the thing is that everything that counts for being a successful or put together person also feels extremely outdated. it seems like every young person is in situations like this of rapidly becoming a burnt out failure with no direction in life or future, unless they happen to come from money or maybe managed to essentially win the lottery by becoming successful in one of the few careers that emerged in the 2010s like being an influencer or youtuber or whatever (and make no mistake these bubbles will pop eventually). it brings me some amount of comfort in knowing that everyone is going through soykafty times, because we're living through a period of civilization pretty much rotting in front of us, and really as far as I'm concerned the people who are striving to still try to lead some kind of normal life are the most sad and deluded people. I'd rather chill and hang out, work on my little self-actualizing passion hobbies, do drugs, be broke, avoid working as much as possible. I say this as a terminally depressed schizo who has a hard time getting any joy out of anything in life: fuarrrk all this soykaf anon. we'll all be dead soon anyways, none of this soykaf matters, and none of us have any future, so just try to have fun.

>>81214 My mind is slowly spiraling, again. I need to get away from disgusting creatures and the disgusting stimuli they provide on the internet. I have become triggered. I suppose the way you kill something is just reflect all of its worst suspicions over and over until it succumbs.

>>81216 try to be conscious every time you fap, be conscious of every time your pp goes back and forthm, every time grasp of pp and hand/fleshlight and ask yourself if that is enough for you.

>>81217 >try to be conscious Yeah, but how? Aren't we always conscious when thoughts come and go? Why don't we tell ourselves "IF a thought on porn comes to mind, I'll disregard it." Kinda soykaffy thing but it can absolutely work.

>>81217 Fapping itself is already an error. Whether it's enough doesn't really matter, it's too late / wrong for anything else. So it's an error space layered over a more basic error. Obviously orgasm without deeper meaning or fulfilment is what drives addiction though. Surprisingly no one bothers to point out this basic and obvious reality, instead going on about "dopamine" and such.

>>81219 natural selection is like kicking dead whales down the beach tho

>>81220 I don't know what that means in this context. Unless you're an NGO / Alphabet guy / botswarm that's hooked into my youtube comments and is reacting to my statement about creating artificial wombs here on another platform, as a crude and relatively transparent means of behavior modification / amplification. Buddy, let me make this clear. I'm essentially a manufactured product of something beyond your comprehension. You will never know my mind. You will never influence me. You have no control. The alternative is some project dreamcatcher-esque soykaf pr maybe automated statistics-driven prose analysis.

>>81223 lol thats cute. Your a slave of your own DNA(which was there before and will be after if you have kids). i will make my own artificial DNA(the real me) and will escape life spiral of life and death.

>>81224 Spirit over matter. There's a degree of bidirectional communication, but overall I'm just something using a human body. You can override the vessel.

>>81225 dude we are just the intermediate that DNA uses to replicate itself. You have a chance to escape it but that all there is to it.

>>81227 or is DNA just the intermediate that humans use to replicate themselves?

You should study paleontology(from the start), it will change your mind. Stop using "human" word, its like putting everyone in the same set and disregarding neural network improvements

>>81227 >>81230 The fact that you cannot know for certain is baked into the system. Every case has a countercase which is equally plausible, even at the extremes. This is how the illusion that is the dream world of life works. It would fall apart otherwise.

>>81201 Funny how you question all the positive ideas but leave the "fixed mindset" stuff untouched. Maybe you're so angry at their post because it reflects poorly on your lack of ambition and drive?

>>81234 I don't know man, maybe. Or maybe you can't begin to know what you don't know you don't know. Taken from some dumb youtube video # 10 billion about the benefits of working under constraint.

>>81233 we can always try to share each others pains and try to escape it. Lain is on my side for this one

>>81227 >dude we are just the intermediate that DNA uses to replicate itself. This is a borderline schizo view. And no, I don't care that science celeb wrote about it. Doesn't make it less schizo. The fact that we have people who help people from other side of the planet should prove it wrong. Hell, people sacrifice themselves in war. You can't exactly say that action helps your genes spread. What about when people go to great lengths to help other lifeforms such as animals and plants? The standard answer to this is that "it spreads your genes indirectly", as in, your specific genes might die, but someone in your family may live, which spreads "your" genes further. But, as all life is directly linked to each other, you might as well say everything you do helps spreads your genes in some shape or form. There's after all striking resemblance between me and a bird. We both have eyes, mouth, legs, a heart, liver, bones and so on. I do spread "my" genes by saving a bird from danger. But at that point, selfish gene theory is just reality denial. And I really mean the schizo part in this. It's borderline a schizophrenic line of thought. People with healthy minds can understand and dismiss certain things as them "just being like that". Like people crossing their legs while waiting for a bus is just "something that happens from time to time" without any real big significance. Schizophrenics think that people crossing their legs are doing some dance or trying to communicate non verbally. There's this search and hyper focus for significance and mechanism in most non-significant kind of events. Now, I'm sure that animals, and especially social animals, help themselves out. But they just do that because it's helpful to them. As in for these kind of animals as a whole. There's no meddling selfish gene there controlling them. If that was the case, a country like US wouldn't even make sense. The whole country is made from immigrants that came from all over the world. But now they somehow could, even if all these immigrant have different genetics, go on to form a country together?

>>81239 just picture countries as bucks , wars as the bucks clashing and gaining territory as mating with the female. I am just here to help, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot always make him drink

What is even your problem? What the fuarrrk do you want? It is not clear that anything you said is a problem. >I want to be a human and take charge of my life All individual particles are subject to other forces; they move us entirely. Free will does not exist. You confused about your sense of self altogether. Is your problem just the cultural propaganda of ambition and ""free will""?

>>81158 What other skizo forums are there

>>81241 It is so weird how lack of free will gaslights us into free will and then reminds us there is no free will. Lack of free talking about itself for amusement. Anyway determinists are retarded, they grasp at they imagine to be reliable scientific knowledge to claim there is no free will. But as a matter of fact this statement has no scientific foundation. Not until there's the theory of everything. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8190656/ See? They don't even know if brain is deterministic. You make choices, you can make choices. Some prospect of science discovering "determinism" isn't going to be an excuse for you being retarded asshole.

>>81254 Even if there is a mechanism for individual souls to exercise will in some spiritual or religious sense, the concept of self being used here refers to our meat prison. If you're born without legs, you're not going to be able to run like someone with legs in this illusory lifetime. If your mother kills you at 2 years old, you cant be a president. Our life circumstances are determined by other factors. At what point is there any relevant sense of self-control? And then how it even make sense that a self is controlling a self? It is all nonsense mindtraps. It's not just that free will doesnt exist, but that the concept itself is completely broken as westerns tend to see it. It's a harmful mental trap.

>>81156 And the responses are usually a series of smug contrarian posts starting with one guy who decided to make the thread about himself despite being on an anonymous image board lol Can't say I'm any different though Present Day, Present Time! AHAHAHAHAHA!

>>81255 >Even if there is a mechanism for individual souls to exercise will in some spiritual or religious sense, the concept of self being used here refers to our meat prison. If you're born without legs, you're not going to be able to run like someone with legs in this illusory lifetime. If your mother kills you at 2 years old, you cant be a president. Our life circumstances are determined by other factors. At what point is there any relevant sense of self-control? You can't pick your battlefield, but you can pick your tactics. Or the same thing said in a more Buddhist way, first the world makes you, then you make the world. You can't pick your family, but you can choose what you will put on your bread in the morning. Or what kind of work you will pursue. What your reaction to some event will be and so on. And choice is always there. You might not like the choices which were given to you, but you can always make them. And really, the idea that something is controlling itself is only weird if you believe things work like lego bricks and down to top. As in you have molecules which make cells, which make organs, which make a body and so on. Which is true to a degree, but there's a two way loop there. As in biology, the environment affects how your genetics express themselves. Which means the upper levels act on the lower levels too and the train of thought that's used in atomist thinking breaks down. Same thing applies to other places. For instance, economic predictions are too a large extend destined (ha) to be wrong, as a prediction you make about an economy is taken in by the economy. It's kinda like if you had a machine which said to you what you will do 5 seconds from now. But once you heard that, you wouldn't do it anymore, would you? So in the end the prediction is forever undefined. And if we were to talk about this in terms of ethics. I think saying "things just happen" is a cop out in terms of personal responsibility. It reminds me of how after world war 2 an excuse was made by some who worked in the extermination camp that they "were just following orders". The thing is that if we never thought in a way of "just following orders" we wouldn't have extermination camps in the first place. As we would be conscious of what we are doing and face it. Not try to rationalize it away.

What I don't understand is how we can have free will if we can't control what we think? You could be spending 16 hours a day playing video games and how do you control if the thought "maybe I should stop and do something productive" pops up in your head in a year or 10 years?

>>81297 The mind is like an antenna. Thoughts come and go. Free will exists in introspection. The defining difference between NPCs and real people is that NPCs act on every thought that comes into their head and real people test that thought against an array of questions to measure the difference between the result of that potential action and the desired outcome.

>>81297 This is the basic flaw in incompatibilism. How does it even make sense to be "in control of yourself" if you presuppose that the self is not whatever you are? Are you not your thoughts? If you are, then the notion that you have control over your thoughts makes no sense. One can choose to suppress or emphasize certain thoughts but those are themselves your thoughts. If you are not, then what are you? What we are controls what we do. Therefore we have free will, you just have to abandon some simplistic notions of selfhood that have been philosophically popular lately.

>>81239 Dawkins (like the poster) didn't want to believe in altruism so they invent these complicated mechanisms so that every good meaning action must somehow be calculated and self-beneficial (even when that's observably not the case). It's objectivism applied to morality. But you and I know that people aren't perfectly rational and selfish creatures. Selfish gene theory always was reality denial. >>81240 Countries are not deer and do not operate on the same functions you silly goose. >>81300 You're joking right? You don't honestly believe the NPC meme is a reflection of reality?

>>81342 not him but npc meme is reality. Majority of the population is steered by peer pressure and popularity. They give up their agency to following others which is what makes them npc's.

>>81343 Giving up some amount of autonomy so that you can participate in a social group doesn't mean you literally have no internal life or meaningful experiences (which is what the term 'NPC' implies). Memes themselves are an example of exactly this. I am sure that you did not arrive independently at the term NPC, nor does its connotation perfectly capture your thoughts on the subject. Yet you chose to repeat a meme, in order to make your point feel familiar and fit in with your audience. Many in your position would defend or even internalize the meme despite it being, at best, an inaccurate depiction of their true thoughts or feelings, because the meme is a signifier of group identity. There is a reason we call some memes 'viral'. It's because they literally spread like viruses, hijacking the human social drive to reproduce itself (be repeated), to the detriment of the host. If you think about it the internet is literally like AIDS.

>>81349 people simply like to use familiar terms. npc is just a concise "dude aint thinking for himself" and the nature of the net is shorter = better

>>81161 Writing and reading is old news. My computer reads any text i point it at, out loud and i tell it what to write. Literacy will be as obsolete a skillset as thatched roof laying.

>>82176 you will end up like the christians before luther translated from latin then - entirely reliant on a trust me bro authority figure.

>>81151 Disclaimer: these are the words of a fellow lainon struggling against their own fate, not someone who has achieved the feat of actual defiance. They should be read with a critical attitude. If we leave magical thinking aside, "fate" must be conceived of as the likely end created by myriad semi-permanent forces on the course of a human's life. As in physics, if you wish to understand motion you must understand the forces acting upon the object, and you change motion by changing forces. If you seem "stuck" then the forces in your life have achieved equilibrium. That's a bit too abstract, but it's a decent way to begin. If you like it better, think of them as individual threads holding you both together and in a particular posture and place, some visible and some invisible to you. Humans are...moderately good, we'll say, at recognizing causes and shifting forces around to get different results that please them better. So if you've been stuck with a situation you don't like for a long time, it can be thought of in one sense as a failure in the performance of the mental apparatus. You don't have access to the right data OR you aren't processing that data properly to understand your situation OR you aren't formulating agendas properly from processed data OR there's a problem in the execution of your properly-formulated agendas. The last two of these are coming to be called "executive dysfunction," a term that comes up in the discussion of ADHD. I don't want to go into detail on that here, but if you have that constant sense of "I know what the world is about but I never actually do anything properly" some reading on that term MAY be of use. (I acknowledge that this is becoming a bit of a confused ramble, but if I could articulate all of this perfectly I probably wouldn't be posting on here. Expect further confusion but with any luck there will be some insight as well.) In practice it seems to me that a lot of "defying fate" comes from a few sources (capitalized for emphasis): - changing the Environment (different environments have different sets of forces acting on those within them) - continuously expanding one's Awareness of the forces acting on people, as well as mental frameworks and methods used by others to achieve satisfactory results (one cannot alter forces they know not of, nor use tools they have not taken into their possession) - setting concrete Agendas (how can one nudge one's life toward something without an idea of where it is?) - aiding Memory so that one's Awareness and Agendas can't slip away in the shell game of everyday life

>>82211 To make this a little more concrete, I'll show that the actual interventions aren't always dramatic in themselves. In my own life, I have found utility in the keeping of a journal and a calendar, aids to Awareness and Agenda-setting and Memory. More striking is the case of Benjamin Franklin. As a young man, he took up a program of attempting to morally perfect himself, not accepting the dogma that it was impossible and therefore a useless task. He made a list of 13 virtues he wanted to cultivate in himself and gave each a clear description for reference. He kept them in a book and would focus on one at a time, making a mark when he failed in upholding that virtue, aiming to make fewer marks all the time and eventually none. At least according to him, this program was a great success and made him into the man he eventually became. From the ancient sources he became Aware of the concept of the virtue, a cognitive tool for checking one's behaviors and attitudes against a standard. He used this tool to frame a complete system of the sort of man he'd like to be/habits he'd like to uphold in defiance of the everyday forces which would produce everyday results. He cycled through the system one at a time, avoiding a shell game effect where he might have forgotten to focus on one aspect or just avoided it because it was annoying. There's a lot that can be taken from this story if you're willing to take it at face value. I'm sure there was in actuality more to his development than this one system, but I don't see any reason why this sort of thing shouldn't have some efficacy, so it's something of a proof of concept for what I'm getting at. >>81151 >but now I'm too old to waste any time This meme isn't serving you. Inefficiency is unavoidable in human endeavors, and the despair that comes from fear of inefficiency is a great source of inefficiency in itself. Determine what you'd like to see. Do the thing that produces it. Do it badly. Do it inefficiently. Inefficient processes can still be productive processes. Set the mind to production, then tweak efficiency. Start small if it's better for you, but start and, having started, continue, or, stopping for a good reason, start something else afterward. Be hesitant to compare yourself with anyone but the you of yesterday. It's a platitude, but I think it's true that comparison is the thief of joy. >>81157 Useful and positive content here. I'd like to encourage you to keep fighting the good fight, lain. Keep your steel sharp. (I mean these things in neither an explicitly Christian nor explicitly violent manner.)

>>82192 Perfect, i am in tune with the neofeudal age. It's back. >all manner of merries we will make, >and solace to our hearties take, >my gigachad lord, for your sake; good day!

>>82336 sounds pretty fun ngl....we could have another enlightenment age :)

>>81200 Are you telling OP to kill himself? Or what?

>>82338 OP can do whatever it wants.

In Nordic mythology, all things are fated to happen as planned, but it's still important to try as hard as you can to make things happen as youo think best. My definition of life is "the act of carrying on in the face of complete and utter hopelessness." On the other hand, the interpretation of quantum mechanics that says true randomness is an intrinsic part of physical reality is pretty interesting, too. Who knows?

>>81151 Been a long time since I saw that anime but wasn't this scene a speech by the villain? As like, a way to rationalize being a sadistic psychopath, 'humans are trash' flavor? I think it's maybe missing the point to take it at face value. >I'm afraid that if I decide to go one direction I will change my mind in the middle of it I think when you find something you really actually care to do, that's not a problem because you will do what it takes to actually do it. Your life is going to be made up of mundane moments regardless of what measures of success you pass and there's no point feeling shame about that. This gets confused by the many soykafty memes society puts in your head about what you're supposed to be doing or how you should frame and weigh your life. People get superficial ideas about what their life should be that don't actually match what they really want, so they twist their minds around how to conform to the idea while maintaining enough cognitive dissonance to not actually live by it, which isn't weakness but a necessary defense mechanism. The way past that is to stop trying to control yourself and unify yourself instead. Though also, nothing wrong with planning and having ways to build habits and remind yourself of things.