How to Hack Socializing

So I had a massive social fail yesterday. I don't really want to get to the details because nobody here cares about my drama. I want to get to a feeling that probably unites some of us. A lot of us are very into computers in a way nobody except us can understand, and along with that or because of that, we lost our social lives. Me, I have very bad people skills. Unlike others, it isn't that I'm too scared to talk to others, in fact that sensation is extremely dull, only flares up talking to cute girls, like anyone else. So I don't have a block when it comes to just talking to people. What I struggle with is the technical skills: how to read people effectively and respond to their emotions, keeping a conversation flowing and expanding, speaking technique (my speech has degraded somewhat to the point where I stutter, my voice sometimes cracks, and I never speak loud enough so should work on that), and moreover the holy grail is utilising social procedure to make a relationship ascend from acquaintanceship to a close friendship. After yesterday I was wishing I was just normal, that I didn't trade my social life for elite computer skills because of how isolated it made me. I have a unique perspective on the world in so many ways, but I'm also alone in that, and sometimes it doesn't feel worth it. Relating with people over the wire isn't enough anymore, I want to relate with others face-to-face. But I don't want to become a defeated misanthrope just yet. I need to know if it's possible to have it both ways. Surely other lains have been in similar situation, and maybe have tried and possibly succeeded in fixing it. I haven't searched elsewhere yet because I expect to find mostly snake oil peddled by normal people who don't understand my situation at all. What about you lain? Have you found books which gave you a glimpse at the mechanics of social interactions? how friendship is formed? Also, is having social media a boon for making friends? At this point I'm considering downloading Instagram to appear more like I am a socially fitting person; I feel like being known as that guy who has no social media, though it makes me novel, probably works against me because it flags my outsider-ness to others, or makes me seem like I'm not approachable. But I want to be approachable. I don't expect to become a sociopath-tier socialite who can smooth talk anybody. I just want to be able to get on with people. Let's all learn how hack the social fabric of the world to make friends! >I took a picture of this beautiful five-leaf clover a few years ago. I've been obsessed with clovers since childhood, but I'd never found a five leaf before. It feels sort of fitting to this thread.

>>81113 >How to Hack Socializing start or participate in a housing co-operative

>>81113 >I took a picture of this beautiful five-leaf clover a few years ago. I've been obsessed Already lost the norm!e. Unless you're attractive, useful, or have a certain and very distinct childlike but brutal indifference about you, they're done. At that moment, they're done. You'll get the look and then they say one of the permutations of the thing, and then that's it.

>>81116 This, it's basically socializing on hard mode, but you get 3x XP Aside from that, Just talk with people. I don't mean talk TO people, but with people. Start with asking open ended questions and just listen. It's actually pretty easy. Autistic people can even git gud at masking, which makes them seem like really good social butterflies. One of the best pieces of advice: Every time you meet someone new, be as happy to see them as if they were a long lost best friend. People reflect the positivity you give to them.

>>81117 That's not helpful. What is helpful might be practice. Social efficacy is a result of well-utilized social skills, and social skills are skills. Skills are developed through slow, consistent practice, with ample mistakes and successes to draw from. Therefore, if you want to have more social efficacy, practice socializing more. This means going to social events, being with people, and, at the very least, trying. I am in the same exact boat as you. What I am doing to try and fix this is to force myself to get a social hobby. Right now I do programming/engineering projects and study math in my free time. Obviously spending too much time on these things made me a social outcast. So what I'm doing now is I'm going to start BJJ and become a tutor. This will force me to socialize, which will cause me to make mistakes and learn how to socialize. Hopefully a similar method can help you. Good luck, Lain.

socialising (if you're not a psychopath) is the fine art of balancing kindness while not being a door mat. It's literally that simple. Just be kind to people but if they start taking advantage of you, assert boundaries. Easy as that. You autists overthink this stuff too much.

>>81120 This is Lainchan. No one calls me autistic on Lainchan, no one.

>>81120 what if you're a psychopath :)

>>81123 >what if you're a psychopath :) then socialising is all about trying to take advantage of people without them noticing

>>81113 This one is a pretty good book I read on how to talk to people. The main principle it outlines is that you have to assume that everyone you talk to is the center of their world, and they will get interested mostly if you care or talk about them. And also try to think from their perspective whenever you are in some conflict. "Reading people" is, afaik, a very simple thing. Don't we do this all the time, anyway? Despite this I am actually so fuarrrking ronery like many of you. I know it's possible to influence people to think my way but I just feel too lazy to doing for a normal person and prefer finding an actual lain friend. There is the IRC where people just soykafpost, but maybe making real friends is another skill I should learn, which will be for later. >Also, is having social media a book for making friends? I tried doing that in high school and pretended to be like a normal person looking up for normal memes or something to try getting closer. Only to realize I have wasted so much time in that lol.

>>81120 How can I assert boundaries without being mean?

>>81127 >How can I assert boundaries without being mean? by doing it immediately. The longer you wait, the more your frustration and anger builds until you have a strong emotional reaction. But if you assert your boundaries immediately, it's much easier to remain calm and collected. So you can just tell them to stop whatever it is that they're doing without much fuss.

>>81127 >without being mean? First of all realize you're not responsible for how others feel, BUT you don't wanna be defensive and attack them instead since this will only bring chaos. The truth is that there are two parts of doing it, you need to be respectful to people and calmly refuse to do things that they tell you to, and on the other part you need to force some respect, which is done by standing up for yourself, and that's the hard thing.

>>81113 the answer is simple op: therapy

>>81119 >Social efficacy is a result of well-utilized social skills, and social skills are skills. Skills are developed through slow, consistent practice, with ample mistakes and successes to draw from. >Therefore, if you want to have more social efficacy, practice socializing more. This means going to social events, being with people, and, at the very least, trying. This seems sound. But I ought to figure out at least a game plan for the approach. As I said I'm not necessarily scared to approach people, but it's that I lack any procedure for what to do. That's how out of touch my social skills are, I cannot approach people except when something has forced us together. From there on I might be able to figure it out. The only friend I have made in the last two years, happened because I was turned up to class wasted, and just started chatting to the dude next to me. I'd prefer to know how to do this without alcohol though... >>81126 Thanks, I wouldn't have read this otherwise because it looks scammy, but am reading it anyway based on your recommendation. The stories do sound fake sometimes, but I guess that's not what's important; they're there to visualize the advice. Some of it sounds good and I look for opportunities to try them out and see how it goes. >>81155 What's a therapist going to do for me?

>>81124 thats just normal people behavior. The majority tries to take influence for personal gain while masking it to prevent repercussions. There is an older psychology paper on "normal people are evil" that caused a lot of outrage because it addressed that. What gets labelled as psycho is rather people who stick out because they dont bother with pretend play when they know they can get what they want without. Its the only reason they register to the observer in first place.

>>81307 > There is an older psychology paper on "normal people are evil" I can't find it, please link or tell the author?

There are other people like you, as you can see here. They are rare and distributed sparsely throughout the world, but you could meet them via the internet. I did that and turned an internet friendship into a real, genuine, real life relationship. It was the only thing that worked for me. The technical skills improved to some level with practice, but i think mostly i (and you probably you) have autism so we'll never naturally be able to speak verbally like neurotypicals.

Therapy is useless. You need to study structural linguistics. Socializing is just like a language. It involves the exchange and decipherable of specific signs which, by themselves, are pretty arbitrary but have meaning within a particular linguistic structure. The difference is that these signs do not come in the form of speech or writing. The first step in hacking socializing is being able to grasp the grammar that is at the base of any given community's social language; the way they socialize with each other. This is hard because no real publications exist on this. You can't just grab a grammar off the shelf and study it like Japanese or C or something and social languages are much more fluid and far less standardized than spoken, written, and computer languages e.g. inside jokes among a circle of friends. You basically have to observe a given social group the way a linguist or anthropologist approaches a group of people who speak a completely unknown and unmapped language. Like your discovering an alien computer system with vastly different software and programming from anything you've seen before. What do you do in this situation? You have to slowly work out the elements of the language by deducing from what you already know and observation. Since cracking any language depends on having enough material to work with, you have to do a lot of observation. Structural linguistics and basic cryptography and ethnography can be very helpful. At the end of the day, all languages have common features and all of them have structures so if you can work that out you can hack socializing. Actually doing it successfully is like kicking dead whales down the beach though. Good luck Lain.

>>81317 There is an issue with so-called online friendships, though. I believe these kinds of friendships barely even exist. The IRC/Discord servers are absolutely the worst platforms to "make friends" since virtually everyone there is wasting his life spending 14 hours a day brewing soykaf/streaming/talking about random things. >I did that and turned an internet friendship into a real, genuine, real life relationship. I think these sorts of friendships are not found by themselves; they just happen. imho most internet friendship are not sustainable unless the two friends met IRL (do you expect otherwise that your friend will be there in your deathbed?). I think everyone who's lonely must firstly take some little time for themselves i.e. solitude. Many of us don't know ourselves or how to deal with people when we should.

>>81316 peter something 1972 its nothing worth digging up. Just casual observation of "people can help and yet choose not to help other people, they rather spend their time on entertainment and money on luxury goods" If you can help but don't you must be morally evil. Pretty obvious but still causes massive outrage among those pretending to be good. "causes" because it never stopped - you can find youtube channels discussing his paper and the comments are full of angry people trying to justify themself.

>>81334 thats just philosophy academia, gotta make things convoluted to look legit and fight of critics. To a regular person there is no value in making pages out of a single sentence. Especially nowadays with attention spans that demand a tldr.

>>81319 >You have to slowly work out the elements of the language by deducing from what you already know and observation. This is fun when doing it with ancient languages, foreign poetry, occult symbolism or what have you, but doing it with people it sounds like torture.

>>81780 >Distrustful of my desire to share thoughts or wanting to be close with people because I can be clingy/needy and even a bit controlling towards friends at times. Lost some friends cause of this in various forms. I worry I am like this as well. I've always been the one to keep a relationship going when the other party doesn't ever try communicate with me. Even if they do talk back with me, it feels like it's a one-way relationship. One thing that's kind of tough is I have almost no shared interests with people, even though I'm in a university. Most discussion about what we are studying is not very good, usually I'm holding back because I don't want to be 'impressive' in the eyes of lazy incompetent students who have barely grasped the basics, but low-grade computing conversation also is like kicking dead whales down the beach. I can't talk about games because I only play one hour of PS3 a week. I don't watch shows, anime, movies, Youtube, Twitch, or anything really. Besides computers and maths, I post on lainchan and on a niche forum, and that's it. I could solve this by going back to those activities I had but it's a last resort option. If I did that, I'd feel like I'm regressing into a teenager; loneliness is like kicking dead whales down the beach, but going back to a pointless and mediocre life so to relate with others is still miserable and hollow. >I don't really have any books that have given me any amazing answers. I'm just really trying to accept myself as I am, trying to learn about myself and letting go trusting that it will make hopefully things better. Because even if its not perfect I can at least be a little more free-spirited and kind. though I'm not sure if that's the right way either. On one hand, being myself would be nicer and I've done that to some extent so far, and I've had not much success. On the other hand, I think I would feel like a faker if I was successful through using tricks and acting a way I'm not used to. But since I haven't properly explored the latter option, I think I ought to try so I know how I'd feel and if it would make much of a difference.

>>81440 Children practice mimicry and observation. In the past role play and toys would help to strengthen those behaviors. This is why children used to play with dolls and toy soldiers or tea cups and building blocks. Kids would role play heroes and villains from their stories and learn about interacting with each other and social ethics. Now children just play minecraft and watch tiktoks which give them no bearing on how to interact with each other.

>>81843 I screwed up, due to that i think. Used to find someone whom, reflected the me of 5 years ago. There was quite alot of common ground, but i talked too much i assume, because i never have the opportunity to talk to someone really. Kinda overpowered him, unfortunately. >>81848 Minecraft gives massive amount of creative possibilities. I used to play it and it got me interested in circuitry, architecture etc. Its your basic autistic child game. Tik tok on the other hand, shows you how to mimic retards. I dont want to hate and rant about it. Now for the whole idea of the thread, its about adapting to retards, to feel social contact. I used to try this 4 years ago with all kinds of youth groups etc. but i was always shattered by the awful conversations and generally uninteresting activities. It just felt like talking to very ordinary and primitive people, which was tiresome. What lain needs is other lains, in their life.

>>81440 I go to malls to observe people. I'll sit somewhere high up with a good vantage point and just watch the people. Sometimes I'll stalk groups and couples from a relative distance to observe how they interact and what they say to each other. I'm still socially clueless though.

>>81850 >I used to try this 4 years ago with all kinds of youth groups etc. but i was always shattered by the awful conversations and generally uninteresting activities. >It just felt like talking to very ordinary and primitive people, which was tiresome. Should try sports not quantum mechanics.

>>81857 I just like to imagine you sitting up high like some kind of anime protagonist making edgy commentary about the passing normal people while wearing a cape and hiding in the shadows. Sitting at a sidewalk table at a coffee shop is more low key.

>>81850 i am building a cute logic OS, grinding on it 16 hours a day. you go hard too

>>81860 cut to the mall cop sitting in his office watching anon on his screen, making a comment about anons weird cosplay

I’ve found that the first step is in attitude. If you think you’re better than other people, you’ll dismiss a lot of people. Too many lains have this idea that people who are different from them are “retarded” and that socialzing is “being retarded”. That mentality is a mental roadblock to their sociability. Sonder is the antidote and first key to socialization: a care and interest for the other. First, recognize that people are different and have different styles of socializing (including yourself) Second, recognize no one is superior or inferior for their differences Third, recognize every stranger is a potential friend and just put yourself out there starting conversations. You’ll blunder a lot at first like I did, but like learning to play badminton or making friends with a cat, you’ll learn the ins and outs of socialization through practice.

>>81866 This is pretty naive. Or a pretty naive way of arriving at the same social engineering exploits you'll find in books that teach the craft expertly (How to Win Friends and Influence People, et al): the human being is a predictable beast that's wired to associate situations that benefit it (filtered through the beast of the ego) with positive feelings prime for exploiting. To socialize is to manage behavior for your own benefit, an exhausting and largely pointless task, but it's the logic the world runs through. As this anon says: keep in mind what others like, associate yourself positively to them by feeding their narcissism and ego (easiest way is through attention), be critical only when power is in your hands, as this reinforces the appearance of competent leader, etc. Why the fuarrrk you would want to bother is a very important question you need to ask yourself before proceeding though. Without a real goal in mind or trauma as a driving force you will burn out.

>>81866 >a care and interest for the other. This might be pragmatically true. If I'm actually honest, I might ask why anyone would, or should, be interested in me. What I mean by this is, if I look at those things that I consider at face value “interesting” in myself and question them, if I question why I consider it in this manner, what intuitive justifications I might have, etc., I am undervaluing them at the same time, and seeing that, actually, they are not necessarily interesting at all. If is just an arbitrary perception that perhaps doesn't have any justification, or its justification is childish and so on, and one can see that by perceiving others using the same justifications which, seeing from this perspective, you see clearly as childish, foolish, and so on. I can transfer that to the other people, and ask myself “why does that person think that she is interesting?”, or “why does that person think that me or anybody should be interested in her?”. I can question the attitude of that person, let's say that I meet an academic at a uni party and she or he starts talking about a book she or he read. Why that person chooses to talk about that? Is that interesting at all? No, perhaps not. Finally, this question becomes: why should I be interested in anyone in particular? And the answer is, if you followed that questioning from the point where I started, that I shouldn't. That pragmatism that justifies certain attitudes regarding the world only works if you start already presupposing many things, taking at numerous things at face value, like the perception of certain things as “interesting”. This doesn't mean that nobody is interesting, or that “interesting” is in itself a valueless concept, it just means that people are generally not interesting at all, maybe the attitude anon's have is actually true and perhaps, what one should do is acknowledge what is already perceived: that socializing is fundamentally senseless. I'm not even talking here about the underlying emotional dynamics of socialization, which is problematic to the core. So please, guys, go practice the Dhamma, there is no satisfaction in samsara. This will take a weight out of your shoulders.

>>81868 >(How to Win Friends and Influence People, et al): This is a good example. People read that soykaf and go out in the world without ever questioning why one should even live based on those terms at all. I mean, it is absolutely childish to live expecting people to show interesting to oneself, that people should hear what I have to say, my opinions, stories about my life. But at the same time, people buy these books by the thousands in order to learn how to give that to people. Why? I would rather not interact with people that expect me to show interest in their absolutely bland lives, opinions, knowledge, whatever. There are people in this world with cool things to show, I will hear them. One might argue, well, this is how people work, you need to learn to play the game. I understand, I have to work, I deal with those npcs a lot, whatever. But why would anyone want to base their whole socialization on this sociopathic perspective of “playing a game”? This should be kept to a minimum. Either genuine, spontaneous interactions exist or they do not (spoiler: they do not). People crave socialization due to fear and loneliness, so please go practice the Dhamma.

>>81870 >>81872 It's funny that a lot of what you say relates immediately to the ego, like the self is the end of expression. You're right in that you should live out the Dhamma, Tao or whatever else you want to call it, but keep in mind that means being an infinitely transgressive, conflicted, bipolar, mentally ill, hyper-conscious cell of the whole in a war that's been fought since the beginning of self-referential consciousness. Doing what you have to and being true to yourself might be the righteous path, but it's such an arduous one lainchan celebrates more than a decade of asking itself these same questions, reconfigured and rearranged.

Topics like this always seem to me that anons are trying to lie to themselves somehow. Like, they feel in their guts that there is some problem in their context, in the way the world they are in works, to the extent that they can't even function there. I suggest the opposite. Instead of trying to fit in, assume, just assume, for the sake of an argument first, that perhaps what you see is actually true, that perhaps your disinterest is justified. Take that perception to its ultimate consequences.

>>81873 >but keep in mind that means being an infinitely transgressive, conflicted, bipolar, mentally ill, hyper-conscious cell of the whole in a war that's been fought since the beginning of self-referential consciousness. That's not true. Eventually, do the practice, see what happens. Self-referentiality is precisely the problem the Dhamma was built to solve. The end goal isn't living in a perpetual state of misery, the end goal is ending unsatisfaction, so you will be living your life, alone or not, and not craving either loneliness or companionship.

>>81858 I dont get it. I go to the gym, its mostly 60+ guys with tattoos, besides me. Quantum mechanics? Im not into that, so i dont understand what you mean.

>>81877 what about relativity ?

>>81878 You mean E=mc2 ? Im abit dense its 22pm. Sorry for that.

>>81880 part of it ig for sure

>>81877 original complaint was lack of common ground. Solution is dont discuss high lvl academic topics, find common ground in sports. If they arent fit you can still play billiard/bowling with them and make friends over that with anyone.

>>81882 Lain, why do i want to engage with people whom i dont share common ground anyways. Its so pointless and tiresome. I just like people whom i can discuss with about anything.

>>81887 same, although i am on the fast lane to oblivion

>>81887 because you still benefit from social connections. Nepotism makes the world go round. You screwing yourself doing a solo run. That aside taking a break from mental work with physical activity is a good anyway.

>>81868 I’m sorry to say I haven’t been using imageboards for a really long time so maybe there’s some culture stuff I’m missing. I don’t understand how it can be niieve to recognize that I’m not the only person that exists, that other people matter, and that I’m no more interesting or boring than any other person? To have an interest and care for others because we’re all people at the end of the day? > the human being is a predictable beast that's wired to associate situations that benefit it Let me tell you now that trying to engineer and manipulate people like some kind of algebraic equation will only end badly. It already creates an isolating and egotistical bubble around yourself. Viewing people as objects you can manipulate for your own self gratification erodes your appreciation for others and your self perception. This is what I was warning against. The way you view others affects how you choose to interact with them and how you perceive yourself and the world. I know this worldview usually comes from a maladaptive coping mechanism for the unpredictability and difficulty in relating with people, but it’s creating an isolating feedback loop that I worry will lead you to do some really regrettable things. I would hope I could pull you out of your misanthropic worldview with words, and most with “niieve” ones like what I’ve been saying. But I understand that the action that brings about change starts within your own choices, so please choose well. >>81872 It’s true that a perspective of seeing people and social interactions as a game does render one incapable of genuine relation. At the same time, ond should explore through socratic dialog (or Dhamma) the real resons why they want social stuff. I agree with your analysis that far: on trying tk understand the motive and reasons suffering comes from it. It seems self defeating to work so hard to try and control and manipulate people like puppets, makes the whole idea of a relationship meaningless since there isn’t another person in your perception but simply another thing to manipulate, which is a sad worldview to have. I don’t think solipsism, misanthropy, or manipulation are the right path at all but one of self destruction. And I disagree that spontaneous and genuine social interactions don’t exist, because they happen every day. When you stop viewing people as something to use or possess the world becomes more life rich. My own (detached from imageboards) experience has shown that people are as interesting as you make them, and your social life is only as good as your social perceptions. >>81887 > I just like people whom i can discuss with about anything. That’s your answer. Having people you’re comfortable being around, enjoy spending time with, enjoy talking with. People you can trust. Seek and you’ll find, so keep looking and be open. Good luck to you friend!

>>81843 >I worry I am like this as well. I've always been the one to keep a relationship going when the other party doesn't ever try communicate with me. Even if they do talk back with me, it feels like it's a one-way relationship. Understood that's tricky - One way communication is like kicking dead whales down the beach because its not even a friendship. If this is similar sometimes I feel that the only interesting or fun conversations I have happen, happen only because of other people starting it, and I couldn't make someone want to talk to me - for a lack of better words .. Not sure but i'm thinking that at least some of that is just bullshit insecurity and expectations/ego. For me even when I did have a good friend I could talk and hang out with, I would always be seeking validation for a lot of insecurities.. And it was hard for me to let go of her ( Slash I just didn't) and ended up really not respecting her boundaries in a lot of ways. Anyways something to offer.. >Loneliness is like kicking dead whales down the beach, but going back to a pointless and mediocre life so to relate with others is still miserable and hollow. Agreed..! >On one hand, being myself would be nicer and I've done that to some extent so far, and I've had not much success. On the other hand, I think I would feel like a faker if I was successful through using tricks and acting a way I'm not used to. But since I haven't properly explored the latter option, I think I ought to try so I know how I'd feel and if it would make much of a difference. Good to get that perspective, Thats not a bad thought and maybe its something of a balance to being yourself versus tricks and guidelines, tho I don't know what that is. >Kinda overpowered him, unfortunately. Aw, I'm sorry.. A resource that I remembered exists is succeedsocially.com which I think I saw somewhere on lainchan.. "free guide on social skills for adults" and has lots of short articles and a book that may or may not be helpful to anyone..! >What lain needs is other lains, in their life. For sure thats very true.. The poeple I feel - tho I'm not amazing freinds with any of them - that I've had the most in common with or at least gotten along with the best are in a mechatronics/electronics class I'm in. It's a small class and I guess the environment matters a lot for finding cool people. Now the question is where do we go to find all of the lains! :D >I’ve found that the first step is in attitude. If you think you’re better than other people, you’ll dismiss a lot of people. Too many lains have this idea that people who are different from them are “retarded” and that socialzing is “being retarded”. That mentality is a mental roadblock to their sociability. Agreed, did have that mentality to an extent and I feel like that aspect of ego prevented a lot of opportunities that I could have been more open to. I regret and feel a lot of sadness about the times when I was so concerned with myself, that I really missed out on a lot and reacted in a lot of mean-spirited ways.

>>81891 It's genuinely naive to put yourself before others, or to imagine that others think the same. People will always think they're better than you. They have a need to. Human beings are driven by the pleasure principle in most of their social interactions and cognitive associations, and to admit inferiority or open oneself up to the other means to be robbed of the placid pleasure of egotistical being. To give, to change, to disintegrate and grow, for most people, isn't pleasurable, or it pales in comparison to pleasures attained through more conventional, and sad, means.

>>81919 >People will always think they're better than you. well there's little i can do when i'm so clearly better

So I read some of the 92 tips book, I did not really like it in the end. Mostly the style of the book, and it was more about 'corporate' communication, with situations that don't really reflect my life, or my goals. I have read some of the articles on succeedsocially.com which are much more down to earth and relevant, it is honest about how social situations work. For anyone else who wants to do this, I recommend that website; as you'd expect, reading about socializing only goes so far.

Watch a wide variety of content. I hate sports and reality TV but I at least brush up on what's currently popular before attending a social event.

>>83030 I have thought about this before, but decided it's not worth the time investment. It's one thing to act like a different person around others, it's another to act different when apart from them.

>>81113 just get interests that don't involve sitting in front of a computer and you'll be fine

They key to socializing if you are in some way awkward or neurodivergent or etc etc is either being interested in whoever you're talking to, or pretending to be (convincingly). Because most people here are lonely shut-ins I'm assuming the former won't work, so let's discuss the latter. Here are the basic techniques: >eye contact intervals Very simple, look at their eyes (or around them, nose works), for a while and then look at something else still within vision (don't move your head to look at something else). Particularly good to look down, like at your hands or whatever's in front of you. If you're trying to flirt, raise the intensity of eye contact, as in look away less and stay focused on their eyes. Doing that paired with a look down at someone's lips is often enough to have them be interested (or bare minimum, be intrigued). >the triple nod While someone is talking, make BRIEF eye contact (if you're too autistic for that look at their forehead) and do a shallow nod three times, slowly. Don't do this too much, but occasionally. Best used in one-on-ones. >the innocent question Doesn't matter if you know or don't know what someone's talking about, in casual social situations everyone likes to have power, and the way to do that is to give away. In this instance, 'giving away' an explanation. If someone is talking, just ask a little question about wtf they're talking about. Example: 'blah blah blah, [insert activity], blah blah' 'oh have you ever done [same activity] before?' Literally anything works, just ask your question and do it with an innocent tone, like you're the dumbest little person in the world. >the odd/inappropriate question If you are in a one-on-one conversation that has been going on for a while that you are bored of ask a weird question after a brief pause. A risky gambit if you execute it poorly. A flirtatious example would be: 'When did you realize you were pretty/attractive?' Any question to startle someone and readjust the conversational settings, so to speak, which can open things up to a wider topic. Interrupting someone to do this can be effective depending primarily on a) how much the other person likes you and/or b) whether the other person is bored of the current conversation. >the monologue/rant Especially recently people like a breakdown in norm, so going on a little autistic tirade about something, provided the topic comes up organically, can be endearing, especially if you know the other person more than acquaintance level. Best paired with a little joke at the end. There's other basic soykaf: body language, intonation, facial expressions etc. but that's all stuff you figure out as you talk to people. Generally mirroring someone is effective. These are just specific little things I figured out in high school when I cared about masking/fitting in/getting laid. More unethically, go to AA or NA or some sort of group just to practice. You rarely need to talk about your own experience. Realistically, most of you have problems that could be fixed with those sorts of groups anyway, so go anyway.

Something I noticed when trying to make friends from the "weird" corners of the internet, is that typically people who do this have increasingly specific demands from the other person. For example, I wanted someone to listen to my bizarre theories of reality, while my friend was desperate for any kind of company at all because when alone he lapsed into depressive spirals. Both of us had tried to socialize IRL, but consistently failed. The only way we could enjoy socializing was by gratifying our own ego. Good socialization is fundamentally opposed to the ego. When you socialize, you're supposed to forget yourself and live through external things, like a football match or a video game. This is why it's easiest when we're children; our ego is less developed, so it's easier to forget. You are not supposed to nod along and feign interest when socializing -- you need to actually take a selfless interest in the other person and their passions. >>83182 is giving you ways to fake it, but nothing works quite like the real thing.

>>83186 I completely agree. Faking it doesn't come as close to the real thing. I will say that, after many years of faking it, it became very difficult to 'let the guard down' so to speak and actually connect on a deep level with someone. There were times I could've had actual gratifying relationships and failed to do so because I wasn't able to get out of the mode of faking.

>>81113 Be good looking, any social faux is ignored then. I'm a filmmaker, pretty ugly at that, and I've been blackpilling my chad coworker lately. For the past week he's been beraring me, saying it's just the way I dressed and that my anxiety and social anxiety is just making me imagine things. When meeting the make up artists yesterday, I smoked my weed quietly and acted pretty normal, meanwhile my coworker was dancing and rambling about offing the president, we talked about it after the meeting, he was supprised to admit that I still was the weird one, despite barely talking while bro was greening out. Another good exemple, another chad friend of mine got drunk, started screaming "hail hitler" and doing bad jewish accents bits, the hoes acted like none of that never happened and called me weird for nor reason, well maybe for my looks actually. I've read every self help conversation book there is, its all useless, it's all about looks.

>>83211 I am attractive and I am considered weird. This didn't used to be the case. I have friends less attractive than me that have much more sex. If you haven't figured out how to speak, how to socialize, then you are hopeless. Your depiction of how you smoked compared to everyone else's suggests you are on edge, not at ease with yourself, and noticeably self-conscious in social situations. That is likely the issue. Alternatively, if you're in a group setting and you make a conscious decision to be quiet, you're also weird. Regardless, your comment indicates that you have problems socializing, not that being unattractive is the issue.

I like to think of myself as a slow burner. Ive been told I come off as intense or standoffish, when I'm really not, it's moreso if the company around is superficial and chatty patty I tend to stick to myself than engage. The individual that takes the time to know me is good, people that instigate, clique up and gossip I stay away from, simple as that. At my last workplace the social dynamic was very much like that, and coworkers were absolutely puzzled I stayed in the back and whiled away my time drawing or reading. Not to say I was an unpleasant person, at least I don't think so...I just don't put up with childish soykaf like that. I spent months in jail where the answer to any disagreement was an invitation to the corner to fight, not gossip to others about how weird they were. There were only two people I really clashed with anyway, and they were the ones dictating the social structure by holding parties and get togethers, only gloating about them in front of me like mean girls. That said, I'm not really good in a group setting, admittedly. I'm okay just finding one or two people I vibe with and eschewing any social role they want to trick us into. And if I seem anti-social it's for a good reason and we wouldn't be friends anyway so spare me the drama and wasted time. I always found it peculiar I've managed lasting friendships from inmates than people in the free world. I still talk to my day ones. On a romantic level I guess I'm a bit retarded...I was with my ex for twelve years before we broke it off, and now I'm in my mind thirties in dating scene that absolutely is like kicking dead whales down the beach, which I mean finding any lasting or significant relationships is a crap shoot. Of the few women I've met one I had much fun with, we actually went on little dates and fuarrrked, but she was in a committed but open relationship so it was never meant to last, which I'm okay with. The other we got along quite well until she found out I'm a leftist and it kind of sizzled. But she was pretty hot and my age and Tanya if you're reading this call me

>>83211 The problem is actually they you're ugly AND the type of person to use words like "black-pill" without any irony. >>83212 it's true. i am very good-looking, but my social skills are garbage. far less pretty people get farther in life due to nothing but their ability to hold a conversation. to answer the OP, i have found a "hack": talk less. it won't improve your social skills, but it will mask how terrible they are. how you "hack" should depend on whatever is screwing over your social life. in my case, i scare the soykaf out of strangers. my footsteps are very quiet, and my voice is very deep compared to body mass. i'm a runt, but all body weight collected in my chest and abdomen for reasons unknown to nature. i walk a bit "heavier" than what feels natural, and use my face to communicate instead of my voice as much as possible.

>>83215 socially gifted dudes often gravitate towards traditionally feminine and/or childish habits, like gossiping. it might have something to do with less societal pressure on dudes to keep traditional masculinity alive.

>>83211 >getting drunk and yelling heil hitler in a room full of hoes lol I went to college in the south and it was rare that a drunken party didn't have someone, often a woman, often multiple people, making some edgy racist jokes. People are more forgiving about it than the shut-ins on imageboards would have you believe as long as you're just fuarrrking around and not earnestly trying to rant about white genocide or some stupid soykaf. The most conflict I ever saw was a "sto-O-op, you're sooo bad, we're going to hell for laughing! Ok you're up next for beer pong." You don't have to be good-looking to make edgy jokes irl and still be well received. You just have to be an average level of charismatic and have good comedic timing.

>>83218 every party is 24 beers and a black card away from becoming a racist jab free-for-all.

I'm close to just giving up. I have seen no rewards for any of my sincere effort and optimisim. If anything, I've somehow gone further from the people I thought were friendly with me for no apparent reason. I have a feeling something subtle about me puts people off that I can't see. I try to carry myself differently, I tjought it was that, but I can't really pretend. I used to be mistaken for autistic more time than I can count. I don't think I am, but nevermind that, the point is that I give people the impression that I do. It's probably more worthwhile to learn how I can stop having the social desire, it sounds much more appealing than putting up with others. I'll have to think on how I could do this.