Considering a PhD / Academia Thread

Greetings lains, I am posting this to receive advice. I am considering applying PhD programs in computer science (in the US). I am particularly interesting in programming language theory, program analysis, and software reverse engineering. The problem is that PLT research seems to be concentrated in a relatively small number of elite universities. Is there any hope from someone that doesn't come from a particularly strong background? I had a 3.83 GPA from a small state university that isn't particularly well known. I did undergraduate research, peer mentoring, I was a teaching assistant, and helped lead the cybersecurity club. I will have had 4 years of experience as a software reverse engineer by the time I'm applying and I'm finishing my (non-thesis) master's with a 4.0 at a slightly stronger but still not great university. Unfortunately it's too late to go back and do a thesis. Assume that I have GRE scores >85th percentile (for the universities that still consider that). My primary motivation for pursuing a PhD in the first place is that I would like to conduct research and be at the cutting edge of my field, whether I return to industry or continue on in academia. My specific questions: >Is there any way to strengthen my chances to get into a strong program? >If not, is there really any good reason to pursue my PhD at a lower-tier university that I know I can get into? >Do any lains here have experience applying for PhD programs? If so, can you help me understand the hoops I have to jump through? Also welcome: >Other lains seeking advice about their academic predicaments >People already in academia sharing their experiences and advice >Discussions on the pros and cons of seeking an advanced degree >Anything academia-related you would like to share

>>80495 >Is there any way to strengthen my chances to get into a strong program? There are a few factors. If you have a strong background in research (Research assistant, internships, work experience, etc.) >If not, is there really any good reason to pursue my PhD at a lower-tier university that I know I can get into? If you want to be at the cutting edge, your options are limited. You can use the lower-tier experience to try to get into a more prominent program. In the United States, there are really only 3 entities that do that kind of cutting edge research, often times people rotate between them. You could work a federal position (or contractor), which would also get you a security clearance. That would allow you to get more prominent jobs, because a large part of working on cutting edge means you have to be trusted. There is also a government to industry pipeline. Many people don't talk about this, but academia and the military are closely intertwined. Many of the prominent universities do research on behalf of the government, because the government pays large grants to schools for specific research. There are also national laboratories that collaborate with schools for research. The national science foundation and several other research entities of the government are where the real cutting edge research happens. Corporate computer science research like Intel, Google, and X all hire from >Do any lains here have experience applying for PhD programs? If so, can you help me understand the hoops I have to jump through? Depending on the school, there are a few different things to consider. The PhD is more designed for the theory. It isn't so much about getting a degree, so much as getting a degree with specific experience. >Do you want to work with a specific professor? >Do you have the necessary prerequisites? >Can you get letters of recommendation if needed? You could also look up what research grants are given to schools and then find a school that specifically deals with the research you want to study. Government spending is often disclosed in the USA, but there is also the risk of espionage, so schools may be selective with who they accept into a program. I have heard stories of academic espionage where incomplete software was stolen by chinese researchers, and they were trying to phish the devs into giving them the missing parts of the software so they can use it for their own purposes. You may have to sign NDAs or be investigated by performing certain research functions.

Your background is good. Nobody really cares about your GPA from college once you have your MS. >Is there any way to strengthen my chances to get into a strong program? Don't look at schools, look at specific professors/research groups. Cold email them asking if they have funding for a student and what projects you could work on. I didn't do this and looking back I think it's the main reason I ended up in a backwater department. Good letters of rec from people that are in the field you want to work in, or at least close, are also indispensable. >If not, is there really any good reason to pursue my PhD at a lower-tier university that I know I can get into? Having a few years to focus solely on research is pretty nice, if you're willing to take the massive hit to your finances. The main thing that big-name schools have is the big name, my opinion is that you can become an excellent researcher anywhere. But, that's only if you can find someone there that is a specialist in the thing you want to research. It's extremely hard to stay motivated when you don't have anyone around that you can talk about your research with. >Do any lains here have experience applying for PhD programs? If so, can you help me understand the hoops I have to jump through? You'll have to write several essays. Mostly filler type stuff, the only one anyone will read in any detail is probably your statement of purpose. Most places don't require GRE any more, and if they do you're fine as long as you get above their minimum cutoff. >>80513 I think you're overstating how much security theater there is around DoD/DoE projects. But I suppose it depends how deep in you are. A friend of mine who is partially funded by the same grant is also employed by Lockheed-Martin and obviously he's had to sign NDA's and probably get clearance, but I do pretty much all the coding for that project and all they cared about was whether I'm an American citizen. How many academic lains are chained by funding to a big pile of garbage code that has been written by multiple generations of grad students? I want to commiserate.

>>80519 Most of the time, big research grants require US citizenship. I know of at least one instance, where a guy got hired as an intern, but he wasn't sure if he was a US citizen (not sure how you don't know citizenship status, but autism in STEM is real, so whatever) and he ended up getting investigated because they thought he might have lied on his application when he told them at the interview he was not sure what his citizenship status was. A lot of projects start as PHD research, but end up in full scale applications. Another person I know wrote a significant amount of code for research, but then because of the grant status, and the organization it was for, it basically became property of the government and so he did not get credited with it. Under his terms of working there, all research belonged to the institution and/or the funding organization. He explained how significant his software was, but how his name is really unrecognized, and it hurt his career prospects because he could not claim that he was the one who wrote that major piece of software. Most of the research that people do is not anything special on its own, but when you combine hardware and software, you can apply a lot of software to specific dual purpose technologies in the private or defense sector, which is why espionage is so prevalent. Also you will see foreign students using research to try to publish their thesis before the actual researchers can publish so that they get the credit. Some of my projects we walk a fine line, because the school administration always wants to present our projects to show off what our school does, but by describing what it is we are working on, we risk people stealing our research and then publishing it under their own names. I do see a lot of computer people move more towards data analytics instead of researching computer technologies. I don't know what a PhD is really good for unless you want to teach, or are trying for extremely exclusive jobs. While I won't say it's a good or bad job. Spooks at the NSA and friends are always hiring if you want to work on computers and get to access some of the newest technology in the world with unimaginable amounts of funding.

>>80513 I actually do have a clearance. I just don't work on anything particularly cutting edge. >>80519 >Don't look at schools, look at specific professors/research groups. Cold email them asking if they have funding for a student and what projects you could work on. I didn't do this and looking back I think it's the main reason I ended up in a backwater department. My apologies, I should have specified that I mentioned elite universities because the universities I have found with research groups/good number of professors doing research in my areas of interest are top 30-40 CS universities.

I did quite well on my undergrad, I finished it with two B.Sc. and four years of experience as an undergrad research assistant, plus two years working on research projects for both degrees (something akin to an honors project I presume), one journal article and a couple of posters and local conference articles related to these projects. Applied math btw. Due to a fuarrrk ton of personal problems, I almost abandoned it all but managed to finish it with two failed classes, and more years than I intended to. I had in mind going straightforward for an M.Sc. and a PhD, but I had no mental health for it and postponed it, it has been 2 years already. Probably, I'll take some more years to come back, just enjoying some freedom and money now. I'm a little bit worried about that age thing, I'm 28. I know I will do a PhD eventually because I like science, but god knows when. Would it hinder me somehow, starting it at, like, 34? Probably, I'll do the M.Sc. here in my country to catch up, but it would be an inconvenience if all the effort I did during undergrad would be simply (but comprehensibly) unconsidered due to my age. It would be nice to go to a big uni but I'm no longer neurotic about career, I don't mind not going to Stanford. Just want a cool prof working on interesting things and some funding.

>>80557 It's not uncommon for people to get MS or PhD later in life. There used to be a guy at my uni, don't know how old he was but he had gray hair, he defended a pretty interesting applied math thesis. I also used to have a prof who made his money in silicon valley in the 80s and decided to go back and get his PhD at 50 years old. Honestly being older might help you more than hinder, especially if you have some serious work experience. Mostly what admissions committees are looking for is whether you can tough it out.

Ah, grad school. I remember wanting to do that. Then I decided having my life be subject to the judgements of retarded 20-somethings wasn't that fun of an idea. I barely talked to my professors (or anyone, for that matter), so I never saw how getting letters of reccomendations could be done. >>80519 >Good letters of rec from people that are in the field you want to work in, or at least close, are also indispensable. I pretty much turned off or insulted ever computer science professor I had, and all the ones I was on good terms with retired or died. It's fine since compsci is gay, but I kneecapped myself by being myself :/

>>80557 I'm probably going to go for a masters at 35. At that point I'll probably know enough about my field for it to be pretty easy. It really depends on how saturated your field is with people going directly from a bachelors to a masters. In some cases, especially stuff like applied mathematics and computer science, there are pros and cons to waiting or going directly in (i.e. experience vs. recency of course material). >>80577 >I pretty much turned off or insulted ever computer science professor I had, and all the ones I was on good terms with retired or died. It's fine since compsci is gay, but I kneecapped myself by being myself :/ I feel bad for laughing at this, but I understand. If you don't feel like the people judging you are good judges of your skill and character, what are you even doing trying to impress them.

>>80495 If have recently finished my doctorate (in a different field in a different country, though), so I can add a few things. The first and most important thing is: It will be a long and tough procedure, with few highs, many lows and weeks of despair. "Doing a PhD lets you age three times as fast," a colleague used to say. Find a field and a thesis topic you can get enthusiastic about. It will help you get through. > My primary motivation for pursuing a PhD in the first place is that I would like to conduct research and be at the cutting edge of my field, whether I return to industry or continue on in academia. This is already a good sign. The focus of the PhD is not classes, but doing research on a subject. So, as >>80519 says, > Don't look at schools, look at specific professors/research groups. Doesn't matter that university A has the best program, if the expert for your topic of interest is a professor at B university. And in the end, you will receive a PhD from either place. Aside from cold emailing, there are often job ads posted for PhD positions. InspireHEP has a tiny CS segment, I don't know whether there is a CS-specific database. https://inspirehep.net/jobs?sort=mostrecent&size=25&page=1&status=open&field_of_interest=cs There is a fair chance to that you need recommendation letters. Find people you have worked closely with, because they know how you performed at work and can make this letter a personal one. Considering that you have been in industry, maybe also try to get one from your current boss, because he has the most recent experience with you. And, most important, always ask the same persons to write the recommendation letter. Drafting one is a lot of work, sending it to one more university is not. Also, maybe look at positions outside the US, so you can see more potential positions. The language of research is English, and plenty of doctoral researchers arrived in a foreign country without knowing the local language, so you can figure that out too. With near certainty, you will also need to move if you stay within the US. Look at how these positions are funded. Stipends suck, look for positions where you get employed by the university. If you get to the stage of an on-site interview, try to talk to doctoral researchers in their third or even fourth year. They have seen most, and they know a bit more about whether people finish within their contracts, how difficult extensions are to get etc.

>>80628 >Doesn't matter that university A has the best program, if the expert for your topic of interest is a professor at B university. And in the end, you will receive a PhD from either place. The issue I am running up against is that only the best programs seem to do research in my areas of interest. I don't think that I can get in to a highly selective school.

>>80636 You really need to do you homework. See what research your professors have done. Usually the school has a staff page with the accomplishments and fields of specialty of the different professors.You can cross reference that and figure out what kinds of papers they have written. If your sole interest is research, there are a lot of jobs that would just pay you and not require you to get expensive degrees or certificates. In that case, I would advise looking at companies that have patents for cutting edge technology in the fields you are interested in. Those companies can also be a doorway to a good school.

>>80643 >You really need to do you homework. See what research your professors have done. Usually the school has a staff page with the accomplishments and fields of specialty of the different professors.You can cross reference that and figure out what kinds of papers they have written. None of my professors do research in the areas I am interested in. I have done my homework. I have looked at where the publications are coming from, where the research groups are located, where the faculty are located, and so on. I am telling you that it is highly concentrated in a small number of universities.

>>80648 Me again. I think I was a little vague so I want to clarify. There are definitely researchers at less elite programs who do things I'm interested in, they just tend to be isolated. I.e., they are the only ones at that particular university doing that work. My concern then is that I could end up there and they leave. When I say the research is concentrated at elite universities, I mean that they tend to be the ones with a more solid foundation in that area.

>>80662 In the past, it was not uncommon for people to follow professors around if they changed schools. That model does not work well in the U.S. though. I would say in that case, try to pad your resume by working in the field and then maybe try to get into an elite institution.

>>80662 > My concern then is that I could end up there and they leave. Most professors leave their university only when they retire. And even then they sometimes hang around for some more time. The more interesting question is how large the professor's group is. Does he have other doctoral researchers, maybe a postdoc? It is great if you have other people besides your professor to work with.