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since i'm at it and going through a leftist disillusionment, should the adequate left vote Trump? why? if biden wins again imho there will just be another war in the middle east, and no taking care of the immigration crisis. and sweet words. both are cooked but biden is a def of a cabinet plant. trump seems as simple as a pumpkin. ik about the downsides of him being a con artist, abortion and trans issues, but there is literal military being driven into New York subways and streets because of crime rates. this sh1t has to stop(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST, You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf.)

Trump has stated that he wishes to do the same, while implying to be harsher. I'll only add say this: there likely a reason why politics is rarely discussed on lainchan.

>>78955 What’s the reason for politics not being discussed?

>>78956 cause the threads get removed

>but there is literal military being driven into New York subways and streets because of crime rates. this sh1t has to stop oh my sweet summer ch1ld, not able to recognize an obvious political stunt You must be so y0ung to think the military circlej3rk in the subway is useful. Crime is lower than 20yo ago in NYC. You'll get older and learn to recognize the political bs they throw at us every election year. What do you think t.rump will change on that issue lulz, will he go fistfck every criminal in the subway himself?

>>78959 LMFAOOOOOOOOOO what is your style of writing *crying*

>>78955 >>78959 naw i dont think the military is useful im trying to make it stop wouldn't it make sense that it wouldn't be needed in the first place if trump implemented the migrational policies that are harsher though?

>>78960 English isn't my native language + trying to bypass lainchan language enhancer (blocked me from posting) Sorry >>78962 >wouldn't it make sense that it wouldn't be needed in the first place if trump implemented the migrational policies that are harsher though? No. We don't even know if migrants do those crimes. And, we actually DON'T NEED soldiers in the subway, police numbers don't show any surge in crime. Trump "harsher" policies will never work too.

>>78963 no it's fuarrrkign sick, i love it i thought you had some niche estoreic linguo mixed up with some bombastic slang like insane i genuinely think that the crime-migrational issue is out of the question, which was given to be by the base minimum of studying history. even when gentrification happens, the marginals kind of single out. when migration happens, targeted societies become economically depressed to a degree so that being a general principle, not sure if I agree. plus he did build the wall

>>78964 he did build the wall wall wasn't finished and is only as good as it is used to be. In practice anyone with 200 dollars can cut a hole through it or climb it no issue. Its useful as a tool of an empowered border guard tasked with keeping people out, but by itself its not very much.

>>78963 >trying to bypass lainchan language enhancer None of your odd changes trip the enhancers. >blocked me from posting None of your odd changes went around the filter. You probably removed some of your soykafpost that actually did trip the filter, which it was clearly working out just fine. >>78958 You skipped the part where no one is capable of talking about anything without losing their minds about someone's different point of view so they'll spam and flame, which always spills out into other threads and boards.

>>78953 >immigration crisis Why is it a crisis. Also where did it come from? Latin American countries being soykafty? Of course. And how did that happen? From repeated US Government overthrows and corporate takeovers backed by the US Government of legitimate democracies, alongside drug and weapons trafficking by the CIA (which continues to this day). The solution is to disband the CIA and wipe out all of the crooks involved in these activities, which Trump has shown no inclination to do, the supposed swamp draining and locking of "them" up never happened, because of reasons, and of course Trump is still working at it, you just have to trust the plan, do nothing, just vote, and respond emotionally to hegelian dialectics. >both are cooked So why are you making this thread? Why even consider voting for Trump when you know he's just a deep state plant, no different than Biden or Clinton. Trump is personal friends with the Clintons, he was throughout their phony 2015-16 rivalry, and he's Epstein affiliated for crying out loud. What did Trump even do for America, all I can remember is him further destabilizing Syria, sucking Israeli cock (which he'll continue to do even as they genocide people), and accelerating the production of COVID vaccines. >police state to solve crime >border wall along Mexico that disallows Americans from leaving the country without giving biometrics to USG >compulsory submission of biometrics data to USG in order to leave the country That is Trump's brilliant plan, which is really no different than the plan of Democrats, they'll just have different reasons for instating it. You know crime blew up in the first place because of Reagan deciding that ultra-rich people shouldn't have to pay their fair share on taxes, which they still don't need to do, maybe start there with reform. Pretty much all of our current financial problems in America stem from ultra-rich people stealing the money of the masses (which isn't even based on anything more than belief to begin with) and not paying taxes. You don't become or stay ultra-rich without being an evil person. Anyway the solution is certainly not voting, which you already know, so don't bother asking dumb questions you know the answer to. Occupy Wallstreet was a step in the right direction, which is why it got obliterated, and it was identity politics that took it away, even nowadays look at the Wikipedia on it and they call it "left wing". Once they introduced the concept of having certain "marginalized groups" speak over others it started going downhill. This dumb voting mentality plays into identity politics, it's only growing, the political left and right are so deeply divided, and isolated from one another, with their own spheres of influence, that as a result they've been exposed to their own completely separate versions of reality for so long that there's basically no hope of reconciliation between the two. People are more inclined to fight their fellow citizen than the lawmakers and corporate businessmen running their life into the ground in order to make money. No matter what you believe in, I'm sure you can agree that it's ultimately the people at the top in terms of income and thus power that are responsible in some way for what you believe is wrong with the world.

>>78953 Please, don't bring politics to Lainchan.

It's actually sad we can't discuss any politics. Not because mods are gay but because it's glaringly apparent to me why this rule, even if informal, exists. It automatically brings the worst out of people even if you ignore all the astro turfing and chat bots to drive opinion and false consensus. All while it's something everyone should at least be somewhat objectively informed about. Though it's apparent why such a situation would be contrary to the interests of the massive propaganda apparati which you can't deny exist if you've paid even just a drop of attention in the past years. And have played up this whole circus for clicks and views and political motives to such a degree that people got genuine distortions of mind or "Trump derangement syndrome". No matter what your opinion on this guy is, that's insane. And that we can't talk about anything of matter is why we can't have nice things. Trump is neither orange Hitler, nor a holy savior operating Q from the shadows of his private mansion. He did improve conditions for every day US citizens a bit while still being involved in the current cabal. My assessment is that he's just not as predictable and has too many interests of his own which do not align enough to be permitted to occupy the potus position by the psychopaths who otherwise are running the show. Not sure what upset them exactly about Trump which caused this very systematic and large smear campaign, which usually happens as a first response when someone from that circle goes against the grain but it's also not something which will save America. Maybe only slow down the decline a bit with some occasional small improvements here and there. But still signing bills that undermine the constitution and everyone's rights to privacy and not being handled like in an open air prison which the anglo sphere is currently increasingly doing to follow China's example. Biden is a kid sniffing old man with advanced alzheimers. He's only the accelerationist's vote. While Trump is by some regarded as a "release valve" for the current political pendulum swinging back. The america first sentiment which came out of this might also just be that but it appears to be necessary for the country to become more introverted as they were pre WW2. However I don't see that happening until a real collapse unwinds those intelligence institutions somehow. And migration in general is a problem if it's in large numbers because the only people who're willing to leave everything behind are either those to gain a lot or got nothing to lose in the first place. And you can imagine the ratio on that and how many of those people you get who would've been imprisoned, hanged or executed on the spot by brazillian Judge Dredd for what they're doing in western countries for each doctor and lawyer you're getting, where that too has issues like causing "brain drain" which worsens the conditions of the countries they're moving away from, leading to more migration of the undesirable kind. While the only ones who want mass migration to happen while actually understanding what's going on are the ones who either want to increase local labor supply or to destabilize or destroy that nation for whatever purpose. Migration must be performed on a small and selective basis with chance of integration as the primary factor. >>tl;dr It's all a clown show, honk honk! And that you need to be politically active on your local level. Join school boards and convince others of that they've been lied to. Or hide in your bunker and try to sit it all out.

>>78963 Yea I started by adding my soykafty leetspeak everywhere to try to bypass and then delete/rewrote some stuff, got lazy and did not delete the leetspeak It's been years since I last posted on lainchan, all I remembered was the s h i t to soykaf filter

Lain, I wish to point out the high reply frequency relative to this site's usual traffic. >>78956 It's a farce, yet actualizes into reality. As to why, I don't know : ) >>78976 I hope Lain takes heed from Lain.

Lesser of two evils is for those who dont have even common sense to see how politics actually work in the US. The two parties are basically the same party with their range. If you vote for the other party all it does is further feed this vicious cycle where they become more and more like each other. The intelligent thing to do is vote independent or third party candidates that most closely match your ideals or at least are the most popular option out of those that isn't the two headed snake. What this does is send a message on what policies you want and helps third parties be on the ballots in local elections. Even better make a deal. Every hesitant would be Republican voter and every hesitant would be Democrat voter find their opposing match and vow to vote independent or third party.

>>78973 >Why are you making this thread? Playing devil's advocate to learn more.

>>78980 you seem to have the most adequate comment so far along with >>78973 cyberpunk forever i actually do have some organizational capacity and we already made a community that kickstarted readings worldwide from the best soc universities of the world top down, its mentioned in the I Need Help thread you can use this chance before vichans are raided by feds into oblivion the admin of lainchan can do the same

A finally a Trump thread to talk all the barely informed views that have been growing in my mind. Disclaimer I'm not even an Anglo-American, so I don't give a soykaf. I think Trump is the more capable leader, by far. I don't know if I've just been buying into the propaganda, with all the soykaf going on on the globe, but I really think Trump is a good choice and Biden a catastrophic one. I remember someone told me that gas prices were really low during Trump, which frankly surprised me. Now I see Biden is not only senile but is catering to no one but the military industrial complex. He's actually getting into as many military conflicts as polssible, enriching the weapon industry and apparently leaving his whole population by the wayside. In any event, he has already sinked the econocmy of his country and all allied countries. I know it's really not Biden, he is, as usual, just a figurehead. Trump is a guy with whom I do not agree on many fronts, but he does seem a charismatic leader who can actually negotiate, not that he'll be left with much to negotiate with once he wins. The fact that he is going to win seems beyond dispute to me. I can imagine that he might not win the ballot, or that he is not recognized as a candidate by some states, but that'll probably just lead to a lot of unrest. I can imagine half of the country (the "red states") acknowledging him as supreme god emperor effectively splitting the country in two, an increasingly plausible scenario. Anyway, just judging by their demeanors, it is clear Trump knows how to play his cards while biden, well, he's not playing with the full deck if you know what I'm saying. It doesn't matter much to me, whatever will happen, will happen. The world is a fuarrrk anyway, and none of this phony "democracy" play that elites put up has any effect, the historical tendencies in place and the set of characters will move history forward and there's nothing much we can do about it, nor do I care to participate in their silly soupoperas. I just like to watch the whole drama unfold, it's fun, but it would be retarded to get caught up in it knowing I can't do much about it and whatever I can do it will always be to my detriment.

>>78959 >Crime is lower than 20yo ago in NYC isn't this due to the CIA creating a crack epidemic in their own country to shut down black dissidence? Or with Bush blowing up the WTC and causing mass hysteria?

Well, it's an election year again, and the chans are being used for political propaganda again, just like 2020 and 2016. It's the major things that destroyed the chans. And I see the maggats have arrived. Revolting.

>>79003 >maggats are back buddy we never left ~

>>78991 >What this does is send a message on what policies you want and helps third parties be on the ballots in local elections. I'm not a yankee, but even I know a third party candidate is the least likeliest option to ever materialize within the US system in the foreseeable future. The 2-party system is so ingrained within the minds of the average voter that literally everything is thought along those lines now, which is why most of any kind of nuanced political debate between average citizens is impossible, and devolves very quickly into an NPC-like ideological framing of policies to be lumbed according to two absolute categories which permits all possibilities of a middle ground: if you're for abortion, that means you are nothing but a commie-Democrat and possibly even a Satanist who's out to destroy the Christian family values, and if you're against immigration, then you must be a racist Republican who probably eats babies too, because nobody can be so heartless as to deny the more unfortunate the chance to get to live the American Dream as debt slaves as well. Moreover, as long as the oppositional framing keeps on polarizing, it's going to demand increasingly more energy and resources to feed it and escalate it thereby creating a vicious cycle, which is going to take more and more attention away from third party candidates thus making any third party alternatives evermore improbable as an outcome, or that's at least how the theory goes.

>>79006 >permits What I meant was the complete opposite of that, of course...

>>79006 The point is you sway what policies the main two parties take rather than the goal being to make a third party win. They only care about winning for money not actual politics. It isnt perfect but it at least helps set up a situation the main parties can be taken over and entirely replaced in time.

>>79009 you've made the assumption that US elections work approximately as advertised. Nice try, but they don't.

>be me >open lainchan to avoid politics >see politics EWWWWWW

>>79012 It becomes unavoidable every 4 years around this time. Welcome to paradise, lainon.

>>79012 Don't complain. It can be pretty fun as long as nobody's f-f'ee's are irredeemably hurt and nobody becomes hysterically b*tt-hurt over the discussions. Also, this isn't /p*l/, so it could be a lot worse.

>>79016 fuarrrk that we can read this trash literally anywhere go spread garbage propaganda there and let us talk about cartoons and pdp11s dipstick

>everything is nothing, nothing is everything. there is nothing to be certain of >except when it comes politics of course!

>>79010 > you've made the assumption that US elections work approximately as advertised. No, the voters are pretty predictably influenced by the media but the parties themselves have internal conflicts still and have changed positions over time so much so the Democrat party originally was the one considered the more Conservative party. The party leaders do not care about anything but winning and money. There is no need to buy any lines when I have made observations.

>>79025 if half of all you care about is winning then it seems hardly unreasonable, and perhaps in fact imperative, to break the rules to the greatest extent possible to ensure your victory.

How to recognize political propaganda > I'm just a disinterested person from a foreign country, but party x is so much better than party y in your country. This is always some guy from party x larping as an unbiased observer. > Both parties are the same, so you shouldn't even bother to vote. This is someone from the underdog party trying to reduce voter turnout so his party has a chance. > The voting system doesn't work, so don't bother to vote. Same as above. > You should vote for a third party candidate x. This is someone trying to get votes diverted away from the candidate he wants defeated. You see this same tired old propaganda repeated over and over. It comes either from one of the parties in the upcoming election, or from some foreign power trying to influence the election for their own purposes. Don't be a sucker for this worn out old crap.

>>79012 yeah just enjoy the ride, uninformed political discussion is pretty much warranted on these sites throughout the year, right now it just happens that the circus is in town. Even good threads are usually polluted by some dumbshit who clearly aligns with a looney-toon philosophy about Da West or some soykaf like that. If you came for serious enlightening or even mildly entertaining discussion I don't know what to tell ya, mate.

>>79028 I'm not a yankee, just a disinterested Southerner who keeps an eye on the news from time to time. Dem's and Rep's are largely equivalent, certain members of both parties bucking the crowd occasionally, but most falling into line when push comes to shove on almost every issue. Case in point, the trump soykaf. As seen in 2020, elections on national scale can't be relied upon and should be regarded with significant skepticism, as should elections in many individual states and localities. Because of this, even if he's not the rep nominee, you should vote for third party candidate trump, even if you have to write him in. Don't be a sucker!

>>79027 I was talking about the people leading the parties not the voters. Majority of voters hate the main two parties but vote for them because they dont feel they can win. Encouraging people that winning isnt everything for the long haul they can slowly make changes.

November is coming, and the board quality is going to reek. I can smell it already.

>>79063 wrote this post purposefully in a semi dumbfounded way to instigate conversation and learn lol, but some replies r wack

>>78959 >Crime is lower than 20yo ago in NYC Dude. Decapitated heads and arms and soykaf in Central Park. They stopped reporting crime statistics years ago.

>>79180 >Dude. Decapitated heads and arms and soykaf in Central Park. Nothing new. A few examples of sordid NYC crimes from 20 years ago: 1999 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendra_Webdale (pushed in front of a subway train by a schizo) 2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Romona_Moore (21yo tortured and killed) 2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Rashawn_Brazell (Murdered and body found dismembered in plastic bags, last seen leaving the subway) 2006 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Imette_St._Guillen (24yo female student, tortured, raped and killed) 2006 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Jennifer_Moore (killed and body found outside a motel) And that's just from a rapid search on wikipedia, I can find way more looking into press articles. Dismemberments, decapitations, etc, they always existed. You were just not born yet or too young and it wasn't as much reported on the news as todays with the internet. Murders rate was way higher back then, even after dropping A LOT from the 80s to the 2000s. >They stopped reporting crime statistics years ago. Absolutely not true. It's widely available.

Reminder that Donald Trump is the biblical antichrist and the red dragon in the sky of revelation is here (looks like pepe the frog) confirming that we are in the end times decribed in the last book of christianity.

>>79185 USA is babylon, the whore that sits upon many waters, which falls before the emergence of the beasts. The trump is just a political actor, its like their wwe wrestling gig, they are just a professional agitator on the theater of the world stage. It is end times though, as evidenced by the brightening of the sun and moon and shortening of time itself. https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-30-26/ https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-24-22/

Yep, the Trump campaign has finally started its campaign here.

>>79186 the beast is originally part of the harlot, then BETRAYS her. Have you seen his aparment? It is practically an altar dedicated to the sun god Apollo. Trump will betray everyone in the end,his business history prove It, every relationship for him is transactional,he will destroy his own nation in a civil war to win power (texas president is pro Trump) wait this 8th abril eclipse, he is pure evil incarnate.

>>79185 sometimes i think this kind of stuff is a psyop, perhaps the elites want us to believe in biblical prophecies so we accept being enslaved by them, since it's inevitable, i don't know why, but the kind of 4chan biblical doomsday prophecy stuff always puts me into a certain unstable frame of mind, and it makes me think that i'm being psychologically manipulated

>>78953 The one thing you absolutely shouldn't do is to think with the general terms of left and right, it just have too much aggregation and lost its meaning to become a our team vs bad team trope. What you should do is to clarify your ideas. What is important to you and what can you ignore or tolerate, what are your priorities and why you have them. You said leftist, are you a 80 year old one who want to defend the working class in the class warfare or a blue haired teenager who think being gay is fighting capitalism? Do you think the state should own the food in your plate and execute the opposition or do you wish for a massive decentralization of power? Since you said Trump, I will assume that you are American. America does not have a left and never had one. America have the party that exchange public money for votes and who used to kill people to keep the right to own slaves and the party who exchange tax cuts for political support and who used to kill Indians to take their lands. The two agree on everything important and throw gay rights and stuff like that at you so you will have something to talk about. Trump is an alien in there, it's a TV reality entertainer who don't belong in politic, his own party fought against him in 16 and half of it still fight him today. The fact that all the people who ruined my life team against him give him my full support, not because he won't fuarrrk me, every politician will but because he fuarrrk with them too. >>78956 It attract normal people who like to talk about ecelebs. Watch the other threads. The identity of lainchan is to be full of social outcasts who do a bit of hacking or at least are interested in using tech, and I mean using it, not following the manual. It also attract the horde of paid workers, the bots, the AI and the Poe's laws who joined it because they think they are in a crusade for the moral thing like the bible belt spammer right here. Lainchan is one of the few corner of the internet who is safe from that and I wish political threads were deleted as if they were CP. >>79028 Only intelligent post here. 3 and 4 can be posted for legitimate reasons, otherwise it's correct.

>>79202 Trump has already betrayed everyone, where tf is the wall? I was promised a grand spectacle, great wall of china 2.0. Trump is just a public access tv star larping as an important person like every politician. >>79212 It is a psyop, they create their own fake meaningless version of biblical prophecies and the braindead bible bashers believe them and not the bible.

>>79213 America have the party that exchange public money for votes and who used to kill people to keep the right to own slaves and the party who exchange tax cuts for political support and who used to kill Indians to take their lands Could you elaborate? I’m the “be gay do crime” one who supports anarcho-communism

Speaking as a former political strategist who disappointed my coworker at the end of my career, for leaving because of how freakishly manipulative everyone, particularly those involved with electoral politics are. I actually found her megalomania kind of charming, but I know that doesn't say great things about me as a person. Something I appreciate about these threads turning up on lainchan in particular is how nearly everyone on the site is used to thinking about systems and has some interest in social engineering, when electionposters come here to tell isolated individuals /ourguy/ is some part of the authorities. If the person you're talking to isn't completely isolated, they probably had some hand writing your playbook, or are at least familiar with it in ways that you aren't; meanwhile whoever you're seemingly radicalizing you do not know if they're just being paid to agree with you. Its funny / sad to think about how lonely you must have been to fall for it - you've found a group of people you feel you can speak freely with and think in roughly the same way as you, you don't have to worry about a difference of agenda and interests. They speak decisively and clearly, at least when the agenda is being repeated (elaborations might start to confuse people), unlike the unknown fog outside. Except you've always had that and you could even have that, here, if you just dropped it and chilled a little. Not as a strategy to some community relenting eventually, but because the group you're looking for are called your real friends and they don't expect you to perpetuate a narrative for them, hate, or vote for anybody. A format of political advertisement I always notice on chans in particular is the paragraph of explanation / venting / whatever attempt to sentiment/rationalize, the last sentence of which is almost always a call to action: >vote for donald trump or, >don't vote for anybody of course this sentence or words need not be at the end of every single post, it simply is often enough to be remarkable. >>79028 you're right that the primary strategy adopted by major American political parties is to demoralize their opponents, which goes hand-in-hand with material disempowerment like poverty voting laws, gerrymandering and redlining. furthermore you are not wrong that someone might pretend to be a disinterested 3rd party to set an agenda. however, the fixation on who to vote for makes everyone who says it come off as one of those tumblr liberals, where even jokes posted about american politics, of course anything BLM related, and so forth was treated as a Russian bot, IRA employee, etc. We can think about how this model of understanding posters situates everyone involved as either having a personal investment in their party getting votes, as well as being an employee of said party - rather than a contradiction, this is simply how politics is done, people who work for political organizations only want to do it for the party (or at least clique within them, some feel their agendas are served by people in both parties) and political organizations cut costs using the fact that to many people, doing the right thing means doing it for free. It is a mode of exploitation that's compatible with both sentimentalized manipulation ("I totally feel you / I am you / This Is Your Group") and more "rational", realpolitik-type excuses: things like, "we can use (person or party) to suit our own agenda". If not part of a formal effort, this economic reality creates a situation where people replicate the pattern informally; at the end of the day, you're either doing for free something that should be paid for, or, you are getting paid to compete with volunteers for a party you have pretty much the same reasons as the people you think you're smarter than. my point is that the end of the day its projecting on the part of electionposters to see everybody else as an electionposter, or to see people as mindless sheep to be turned into fellow electionposters, like they perhaps were before they started electionposting. >>79212 it is. look into terror management theory: making people think about biblical doomsday does change the way they think. in politics its a smoking gun for rhetoric, but interpersonally lots of people who are merely depressed and desperate for emotional warmth, validation and / or reassurance do it without even realizing. although it is also manipulation to avoid all tragedy discussion altogether, which many politicians also do: not talking about natural disasters, shootings, the wrong wars or genocide while maintaining an abstract, cataclysmic future. someone who can speak realistically, comfortably and reassuringly about what's actually happening would probably be widely successful, however, it is so much easier for politicians to imitate that idea and insert their own agendas than actually care about or address the real issues - of course what these issues are differ from person to person, and are usually sublimated through miseducation in the way I mentioned prior into other tensions. My point is not that people are ignorant, but that they are smart; all form abstract and nuanced understandings of political topics and narratives, the goal of political operatives is to get them to do this, so that they take some sort of action, persuade others, or even if that's just saying yes or no to questions being asked of them. >>79213 >Trump is an alien in there, it's a TV reality entertainer who don't belong in politic, his own party fought against him in 16 and half of it still fight him today. The fact that all the people who ruined my life team against him give him my full support, not because he won't fuarrrk me, every politician will but because he fuarrrk with them too. See how the parties that "fight" him not only line up behind him completely in terms of policy and political machinations, and now have allowed his rhetoric to set the conversation on immigration. this is not because they're weak, or whatever else you've read on twitter, it's because he was their guy the whole time. He's said it repeatedly himself, and no this does not make him honest, useful or respectable. He probably didn't even mean to. Pay attention to history: Reagan was the same guy, and ultimately one of the most effective mouthpieces the ruling class has. even though he's not a career politician, he's still in their group.

>>79231 Do you understand Obama’s migrational policies? Everyone from Europe seems to call him the deporter chief meanwhile people within America hate him. I know he excavated illegal immigrants and some children seeking asylum were left out, plus he welcomed Monsanto and the death of clean agriculture, but wb immigration?

>>79232 yes that's exactly my point, dems and republicans have the same policy on migration. dems are "weak" on it because they don't speak, they just do, republicans tend to underperform given their rhetoric but don't change things significantly. this has changed in the last election cycle, with democrats seemingly taking the initiative on the promise to deport people. The argument goes that Trump's border policy was effectively a matter of open borders while increasing the size of population who can be arrested and put into forced labor camps indefinitely / potentially, without actually controlling illegal immigration, although another argument I remember from dems in the past is that actually deporting the people being held indefinitely in camps for free labor would shrink the logistical / human rights nightmare of having camps in the first place. this argument goes hand-in-hand with the policy under obama, where focus was shifted to deportations at the border and deportation of convicted criminals, the reasoning that it would be less painful, more logistical and efficient to do so, it would also be better for the american economy to deport those with the least value to it. criticizing america for this as a european or canadian for that matter is silly though, the name of the game is economic nationalism which every social democracy has, in fact many in those countries are quite proud of and consider themselves counter-establishment for being superficially anti-american, while lauding their own nation's "more efficient" policies that are then criticized elsewhere for being draconian and unnecessary - germany, for instance, while still very nationalistic has a population least likely to be wrong about the proportion of their society that's immigrated, which is also having that number be higher, and one of the strongest economies. Something i seem to recall from the 2016 election was that Trump broke from the republican party for having more economically nationalist or social democratic rhetoric than prior republicans, which he was rewarded for something Biden also had going for him in his victory - historically, Biden has been more popular with the national/reformist side of American unions than the rest of the democratic establishment. What doesn't get stated is that nationalism has its own inefficiencies, and that there are economic benefits to immigration, which is why H1bs exist and similar allowances in other countries. But this policy has its own problems, compared to say, any country in the EU has towards those born in other participant nations, and when you consider how destructive Brexit was to the UK and how for this its participant nations are seemingly primed to dissolve it as a country. >meanwhile people within America hate him he was the 8th most popular president in history, which when you consider all of the others were historical figures that nobody was alive for, makes him the most popular president in the contemporary American experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States

>>79239 So you’re implying that America basically has a one-party system when it comes to immigration Do they just benefit off convicts so much. Is permaconviction the red scare of unlawful immigrants What I got is you said that more people immigrate in Germany, but their economy is still one of the strongest I don’t know why some people hate on Obama in America either. That’s honestly what I was trying to figure out. Do you think the European supremacy attitude is completely unfounded? What about the political autism in America?

>>79244 >So you’re implying that America basically has a one-party system when it comes to immigration yes insomuch as parties represent interests of classes or industries. which specific companies have stronger ties to candidates might differ a little bit but largely don't either. only identity-based interest groups are really what differ, and immigration is not really one where it does. >Do they just benefit off convicts so much. Is permaconviction the red scare of unlawful immigrants getting grabbed at all is, and its the fear ive heard from lawful immigrants too. you don't have to be convicted of anything, something can happen to you while you're waiting for a trial. and yeah prison labor is what keeps the american economy going, both parties benefit from this -- there was a really funny interview with hillary clinton where halfway through she was delivered an iced tea in a glass by a prison laborer. historically this sort of thing was just done with slaves. >I don’t know why some people hate on Obama in America either. That’s honestly what I was trying to figure out. consensus online / on imageboards in particular because Obama was widely popular IRL. this is your perception from the people you've been talking to, not a matter of polling with accuracy in mind. >Do you think the European supremacy attitude is completely unfounded? I think its a distraction. The upper class in Europe is screwing over the rest of them there, only the difference between rich and poor is lower - everyone is basically sustaining off of a middle class lifestyle. importing resources from the USA and other countries with weaker labor protection and benefiting from the globalized / neoliberal economic system, in which former colonies play the same role economically. Ultimately, the European way of life would not be possible without American prison labor. and for some reason so many of the politicians are pro Israel. >What about the political autism in America? can you perhaps elaborate

>>79239 once in a while you do get people like Joe Arpaio, who with the support of the arizona legislature did indeed try and do something till they got smacked down by the federal government. Such people usually fall into one party and not the other.

>>79247 Please reread my post carefully. I'm not saying that Obama's immigration policy was ineffective. >Joe Arpaio the guy who failed to investigate numerous sex crimes, and did entrapment?

>>79239 >he was the 8th most popular president in history, these surveys look immensely stupid and also non representative of terribly much of actual opinion, a lot of just asking academics or worse, pundits who also agree with things like eliminating the electoral college. Strange! fwiw most of my vaguely normal person irl friends seem to have mixed feelings about Obammy, wish he was closer to all he was cracked up to be, but don't altogether dislike him. Trump at least elicits emotions, even Bush II, Obama seems to evoke not that much feeling, rather the tepid disappointment of dashed hopes that maybe, on reflection one feels a little embarrassed to have once believed in. As a channer myself I wouldn't call him the worst, not by far, but 8th greatest ? What even is greatness exactly, first of all, but by any reasonable definition no, probably not. Its also too recent to really judge him in a similar way to how we can judge people like Jefferson or even Roosevelt II. Grass hasn't even had a chance to cover his grave yet, come on. (I think hed figure either close to the top or close to the bottom if you polled randos on the street nowadays because even tepid feelings are stronger than most people have to the average president, about whom most people have no recollection at all.) graphs attached for amusement purposes only.

>>79249 thanks for including the graphs. it does seem like border apprehensions spiked under biden, and the border / interior shift only really took place during Obama's second term. so the dems are saying this was the obama strategy when realistically its just the biden one. Although I wonder if this data means much when you consider that people attempt immigration at varying rates due to external economic factors. it would also be interesting to compare these against stock prices of private prison industry. or CBP budget. or if there was any way to statistically compare ongoing incarceration, apprehension, and deports. >these surveys look immensely stupid and also non representative of terribly much of actual opinion, a lot of just asking academics or worse, pundits who also agree with things like eliminating the electoral college. can you elaborate? or present evidence? > Trump at least elicits emotions and what does this correspond to. engagement on X? >As a channer myself I wouldn't call him the worst, not by far, but 8th greatest ? What even is greatness exactly, first of all, but by any reasonable definition no, probably not. Its also too recent to really judge him in a similar way to how we can judge people like Jefferson or even Roosevelt II. Grass hasn't even had a chance to cover his grave yet, come on. yes that's exactly what I'm saying. he's still alive and people have experienced his presidency, unlike the others. therefore not a historical figure, so you have a completely different way of understanding him. Although I have to admit I was mainly concerned with his something like 70% in-office approval rating, i agree with you that people mainly feel overhyped about him in hindsight.

>>79250 You say he is the 8th most popular. If this wiki page is meant to support that claim, which its tabulated results of a bunch of surveys vaguely agrees with, I am behooved to point out that these are surveys of popularity with, variously from what I can tell, select groups of historians, 'political scientists', 'British specialists', or 'political commentators'. They're not channers, but they're not exactly going to be indicative of popularity, either. >what does this correspond to? interactions with my vaguely normal person irl friends and acquaintances. Pure anecdotal evidence. >70% in office approval rating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_approval_rating Obama isn't that remarkable in this comparison either. Both the bushes, as well as clinton beat him on average, as well as on peak approval. His peak is only a little higher than Nixon, and his average is lower. I am not sure how correct these polls are, but believe they are at least trying to assess popularity, as opposed to popularity among some certain profession. >wonder if this data means much hence the amusement purposes only. Unfortunately attempted crossings are not something that is as trivially counted as CBP encounters. Additional factors could merely be perceptions on the part of aspirant ingressors as to the welcome or lack thereof which they will receive, i.e. Biden has a reputation for being nicer to them than trump, so go on when he's president, which will make border encounters go up. Encounter also doesn't mean very much as a term here. One person could account for dozens of encounters. >prison labour Whats the actual fraction of prisoners who are used for labour ? I have attempted to find information about this in the past, and my recollection is that it is far from ubiquitous, and not even very common. There certainly is some. Worth pointing out that slavery is constitutionally legal in the USA as a punishment for crimes.

>>79246 Sorry, i dipped out because I went to sleep yesterday. >Could you perhaps elaborate Sure. I’ve traveled for most of my life due to family inclinations and lived in several countries, and Americans seem to be the most easily gaslit when it comes to institutional systems. As compared to CIS, I noticed a lot of lumpenism among the proletariat, their reaction to the proliferation of psychiatry to unimaginable extends, levels of “mental disorders” (from which the only most real one seems to be neoliberalism), and overall liberal-centrist / sjw attitudes. Chomsky noted on this in his examples as well, but he called America the “frightened” country (when Reagan scared everyone into the perceived attack from Grenada, gun regime) whereas I call it irrational >prison labour. distraction That’s very interesting. I wonder how exactly they benefit from prison labour. Angela Davis holds even more weight then, friend studied under her. So it’s essentially the newest form of colonial usurpation? I have literally never found out about the weight it should be given according to you, even in reading groups I never knew

>>79246 OP here again (same as >>79255) Recently we began to put back together a worldwide big reading leftist group that kickstarted all the the online marxists memes you see appeared out of, started in stanford and went around the world, and now apart from scholars from universities zizek-adjacent figures and more adequate essayists like andrewism are interested, if >>79239 >>79213 Session 051634aa4dd2f4943555d690e8d6f261f3568cec9a3ba46c01eebe2c9dcb922f04 are interested let me know and I’ll drop you the link My personal opinion is that I strongly argue for degrowth as the only alternative and the re-dichotomization from right vs left to people and corporations. hence Kropotkinism and Solarpunk

>>79251 I do wonder how these surveys are done. They likely become more and more skewed over time due to calling house land lines and if mail in survey then it becomes a matter of if someone has time to fill it out so likely lower economic class and younger people get under represented and the elderly over represented. If I recall right most Americans dont like either major party.

I am not going to sit here and pretend Biden is a "good president" because he couldn't be much further from one but in both his defence and to the detriment of Trump a little bit here: What is it that you actually think he should be doing differently? It seems like Trump supporters are convinced he's going to fix every little thing that's currently going wrong with the country without actually explaining how his policies would lead to that. Since you bring up the example of NYC subways, I can't say I have faith in him fixing that. Not because Biden's ideas are the right pick or because Trump specifically would be bad for them but because over the past decade, urban life in The US is clearly a failed project. Every city keeps getting worse. (NYC was just always a 'kafhole so its decline looks even worse than everywhere else, though Miami is definitely competitive) I personally have given up on electoralism as a means to make change. It's basically dead in that regard. In some places with really small populations local level elections might actually be important but even if you're in a city, the unions decide who gets elected. No exceptions. And I promise you: they will pick people who are allergic to change. If you really want to fix the problems in your community politically, the only real chance you have is with community organizing. Based around things like education or other areas where government is failing so harshly.

I forgot to mention from before. If you are in an open election state you have an extra advantage to influence the two main parties. You can register for a party you don't like, vote for whoever in that party is closest to your actual views even if they might not win the nomination then during final election vote for third party for either a candidate closest to your views or closest among the larger third parties which would be either Green or Libertarian in case of the US. If Libertarian though aim for Vermin Supreme since ironically because of Trump his loud wackiness could actually get him to win in theory anyway. BONUS: ahead of elections place up signs all over urging people to not vote for Biden or Trump and highlight how alike their policies are and how they will lead to the end of America and the world. Remind them they have a choice and can vote independent or third party. Don't push a specific person or party though it will dilute the message. Double bonus: help transport poor people that want to vote for third parties and independent regardless of what it is to election sites. They might not be able to afford gas for the trip. It wont likely cause a win but it will help disrupt the narrative.

>>79260 right now one of the biggest threats to municipal democracy consists in AI botting >>79246 are there any antimemetic properties to the current governmental systems sorry if I spooked you w the invite btw hopefully you have enough experience to discern between honeypot and non-honeypot Also it’s worth mentioning that I got limited geopolitical exposure to American intelligentsia and reading the experiences of “born in the USA” by Himes his perspective (and meeting people like him) can only be described as tangential to my irl experience >>79267 yes lol, sybil attack mode, need an organized team good tactics. see above no more posts under deanon

>>79274 it is important to add though that online decentralization and sybil-on-AI works way better for this but i can appreciate your on-ground initiative

>>79251 >They're not channers, but they're not exactly going to be indicative of popularity, either. fair. color me surprised that quite literally every survey in the Wikipedia article was derived from historians and political scientists. but I will argue that when it comes to the subject of historical importance, which you seemingly were arguing, historians seem like the group of people to ask. > Pure anecdotal evidence. i wasn't disputing your experience. my point was that: what do the normals you talk to feeling more emotionally about the last USAmerican president (who is academically considered the least popular) actually mean? it seems to me like it matters very little in terms of what he might do if re-elected, it also does not seem like he in terms of actual policy did anything any other republican wouldn't. other than lie somehow more, and deliver much less than american politicians generally manage to. judging a candidate by how emotional people get about them, in fact, making and contextualizing decisions based on whether somebody can be framed as mad about those decisions doesn't seem like a great way to live. I'm not going to grill you too hard as somebody who also spent a lot of time trolling people on imageboards, getting engagement on twitter, and who was scrutinized for possessing "pathological demand avoidance", nor as somebody who does make judgment impressions of defensiveness, emotional agenda and passive aggression in others but I invite you to think more carefully about the kinds of narratives you base your life and decisions around politically, and the ones you leverage in the process. >I am not sure how correct these polls are, but believe they are at least trying to assess popularity, as opposed to popularity among some certain profession. Agree, they are much more populist and therefore relevant to our purposes. My 70% estimate was seemingly based on his 68% start-of-term approval rating (from your article) which tracks with what we seemed to agree upon about him being an embarrassing disappointment to his constituency. >>79260 > They likely become more and more skewed over time due to calling house land lines and if mail in survey then it becomes a matter of if someone has time to fill it out so likely lower economic class and younger people get under represented and the elderly over represented. that's a really good point, actually. changing methodology would probably cause a serious skew to the poll data as well, it reminds me of some poll data i saw where methodological changes were not evident except in how the same quantity seemed to change abruptly and a couple sentences in the abstract. >>79255 it's okay to take a break. I also had other affairs to attend. >proliferation of psychiatry and the medical establishment it would be a good idea I think to research both the history of progressivism as it pertains to the medical establishment. the first chapter of this book is one of my favorite texts on the subject but I'm still discovering more all the time - for instance the documentary "the way of all flesh" by Adam Curtis touches on this, and so does Assata, Are Prisons Obsolete, it of course is something Foucault talks about but he could only go so far with it not being an American. There is additionally, somewhere a history of pharma's abuses in Appalachia that on some level gave rise to the widespread distrust of medical establishment. However I don't want to single the United States out here, the text I attached does touch on the moral hygiene movement and what it meant to the nazis and fascists. As for "why is it so prevalent" is not a question I have an answer for, might be the reality of sorting programs (special ed, gifted and talented, accommodations) in our education system with a lasting mark on how Americans think. but I want to hesitate before trying to mind-read the american populace, I don't know if mass psychology really has the answers. >I wonder how exactly they benefit from prison labour it seems like a matter of particularity - while the prison industry in particular is quite large, for instance several times that of the global music industry, it is even vaster when you consider that all of these companies are also involved in arms manufacturing, healthcare, privatization of public services and testing these things on prisoners. But I also want to think about its role in specifics - such as using prison labor in government offices and public works, and how to desperate local governments private prisons are seen as a solution to unemployment. another concern that is perhaps more relevant to you is its overlap in the education system - this goes back to Foucault again, of course, but it is not uncommon in American universities that the same contractors be deployed that do food courts, for instance, in prisons - which makes me think about how the logistics of a prison are integrated into the American experience. >>79267 >Since you bring up the example of NYC subways, I can't say I have faith in him fixing that. Not because Biden's ideas are the right pick or because Trump specifically would be bad for them but because over the past decade, urban life in The US is clearly a failed project. Every city keeps getting worse. (NYC was just always a 'kafhole so its decline looks even worse than everywhere else, though Miami is definitely competitive) I want to speak on this: hasn't it been the case the republicans were typically advocates for smaller national government? I don't see a single way that a president could improve the new york subway system, it seems reasonable to say for someone running for mayor, not the United States. I doubt a sensible improvement to public works (like we saw ending the great depression) is in store especially from the guy who both never promised and failed to deliver it during the 4 years he already had in office. Federal politicians are calling out particular cities for being "ruined" by decay of infrastructure and lawlessness, I am actually deeply worried about what policies that might translate to. >the only real chance you have is with community organizing. Based around things like education or other areas where government is failing so harshly. strong agree, thinking of the anarchist road care people.. if we want anything done right we should do it ourselves

>>79278 >online decentralization As much as I am for it that can go both ways and many decentralized services just have a central server everyone uses anyway. Unless you mean returning the internet to more like how it was in the 90s and early 2000s then im for that too but still not sure what impact it would have on politics. >sybil-on-AI Im not familiar with this.

>>79297 My b, it was essentially an argument to the side of leveraging online info because that’s more effective nowadays There are even websites that let you earn money off filling complaints for data brokers appropriating your information lol >not familiar Check EDX course on Decentralized Protocols, Linux Team. That will give you all you need to know

>>79228 The democrats have a lot of good idea on how to spend public money (worker's money) on people who vote for the politicians who benefit them most. You name these people human trash if you are on the right and lumpenproletariat if you are on the left. The republicans give tax cuts for billionaires so they can make more (of the worker's money) and in exchange the billionaires support them. Their dynamic become clear if you consider that it is the two hands of the same body. One hand take less from the rich, the other hand take more from you. >I’m the “be gay do crime” one who supports anarcho-communism In an anarchist community, you would be sentenced to being beaten in public or worse by a popular tribunal. In a communist community, a real one not a theoretical one, you would be declared an enemy of the revolution or a retrograde element and you would be forced to work for free for the community. >>79231 >. look into terror management theory: making people think about biblical doomsday does change the way they think. Global warming. If Trump is elected he will start WWIII. If the brexit is voted, it's the end of the world. This election will be the last we will have if [politician] is elected. Yeah, it's easy to notice. >See how the parties that "fight" him not only line up behind him completely in terms of policy and political machinations, and now have allowed his rhetoric to set the conversation on immigration. To be fair, his ideas on immigration are the reasonable ones. The fact that no one used to admit it was caused by the excessive outrage they would face for not being pro infinite immigration. He simply broke a wall. He did the same on a few other issues, like the economic war against China. China have been economically at war against the west since the 90's we were simply taking blows without defending ourselves. If he was just a pawn of the puppetmasters, like every career politician, explain why there was always an impeachment procedure active and why he now just go from one ridiculous accusation to another. He pissed on the soup of the wrong persons, that's what happened. >>79244 >don’t know why some people hate on Obama in America either. He betrayed all of his promises, kept doing what Bush did but in worse and wasted a lot of public money, not only in the two wars like Bush but in misplaced welfare as well. Initiatives like the great stimulus were clearly doomed to fail, yet he did them, there is the common core thing that he forced every public school to adopt if they still wanted to receive public money, his healthcare reform have ignored all the things that make American healthcare waste so much money and cost 4 time what it does in Europe and simply forced everyone to give money to insurances companies. Insurance companies that gave money to Obama for his campaigns.

>>79244 Seriously, there's still Obama fanboys around? I truly wish I could live in the same insulated bubble as you appear to do since the only change this guy's administration brought was overwhelmingly negative. Granted, this is from an europoor perspective but he did soykaf up this place massively. His middle east policy was as bad if not worse than your other dim head president's double-U Bush, drone striking weddings, bombing entire cities to rubble, destabilizing nations like Syria completely, causing one of the gravest humanitarian crisis and mass migration waves which have been fueling crime, economic and societal strain and the rise of populist right wing parties here, this side of the pond. Under Obama's foreign policy, which was really just the policy of the same people like the Clintons and Kissingers or whatever other monsters are running your uniparty, entire regions got Team America'd so bad that the people there had nothing really to lose but go and try their luck in Europe. And with Gaddafi gone, the flood gates were open. Something he had warned the very same administration about. Now imagine what this does to a host country having to take in millions of 3rd world refugees. Both practically as well as culturally. There were multiple truck of peace incidents just 15 minutes from me. The 2nd and 3rd generation Turks and Arabs are even getting tired and worrying they will have to go "at war" with the "new germans". And it's only getting worse. So thanks, Obama! Regarding the economy of Germany, yeah, Obama's primer VP now helped along quite well. Helping to provoke a war essentially next door and destroying the Nordstream 2 pipeline. We're currently in the process of "deindustrializing" and are back to burning coal under our "green" leadership while industries and businesses are moving elsewhere but predominantly to the US. There's elements where Europe is still superior, like not infusing every single food (if you can call it that) in the supermarket with corn syrup and cheap fillers. Our planning of automotive ways is often much better despite you guys being supposedly so car-centric. Our parliamentary system makes it clear to everyone that whoever wins, there's actually not going to be any change to the current trajectory and just a bunch of other small things that make me not want to move to the US any more, despite it still being lucrative for large businesses to doing so. While in turn we get to import your collective insanity like BLM despite the most we ever did was to recruit some African tribes into the SS back in the day. (Don't confuse us with the Dutch please!) Trump, while continuing the tradition of trampling on the US constitution at least allowed there to be 4 years of relative peace for everyone else unfortunate enough of having to share a globe with Am*ricans. The most there was, was our local media being in a complete frenzy over him, which simply mirrored the bullshit from your outlets like CNN and MSNBC and what have you. But you could simply chose to ignore their seething. But yet another nice thing Obama did btw. when he removed the legal requirement for news to be at least somewhat accurate and truthful. Since then propaganda didn't need to be as covert any more and now it's so unabashedly in your face, polarizing entire populations that it makes every accelerationist rejoice. But as soon as that presidency ended (whether rightfully or not) I'm now faced again with the options of just rolling over and die while being milked for tax money while this nation is on its down turn, become muslim, become member of whatever natsoc movement will rise out of this or get the fuarrrk out of here to places like Eastern Europe. The future looks bleak thanks to your garbage government ran by the insane and psychotic and people like you supporting them. I'm not a religious person but these types of presidents might as well be the antichrist as far as I'm concerned over here and the results of their policies make me believe that the Jihadists are right about the US.

>>79354 Well, the civil war in Libya was created by Sarkozy, the French president. Kadhafi have sponsored his campaign and had dirt on him and the war started two weeks after he visited Sarko. The war refugee crisis, which never was about war, refugees or even a crisis since it started in the 90's and just changed was created by Merkel. She had a name for that, her idea was to spend money to make new Germans come so in the end they would have more Germans in Germany. Once she had enough, instead of just sending them back home she decided to force every EU country to accept its fair share of third worlders who come to access our labor markets or to get the nationality and the juicy welfare that come with it. Open border, no control, free money and 3 trillions poor people in the world. What could possibly go wrong? Half of them come from countries at peace and the other half politely ignore the refugees centers we create where they are needed and just walk where the money is. None of them are war refugees. >entire regions got Team America'd so bad that the people there had nothing really to lose but go and try their luck in Europe. It's funny when you think about it, none of those countries got team Americaed as hard as Italy, Germany or even France. This never have been about bombs. It is true that Obama have the world record of the number of kids killed by a Nobel peace prize recipient, which is something like 450. >BLM Now that's something you can thanks Obama for. America was a post racial society. They elected a black man as a president, and not because of the color of his skin but because of the content of his character. Then he insist that kids must be racially aware. Now we have a generation of young colored people who are deeply involved in IDpol and a generation of whites who have been told to hate themselves and either complain or realize where they are and guess what, it's hard to stay a moderate when the power throw so much hate at you.

>>79343 >worker's money money doesn't exist without the government >In an anarchist community, you would be sentenced to being beaten in public or worse by a popular tribunal. >. In a communist community, a real one not a theoretical one, you would be declared an enemy of the revolution or a retrograde element and you would be forced to work for free for the community. im in an anarchist communist community rn and they're all gay with each other >>79343 >Yeah, it's easy to notice. I never denied liberals do it too. but the format is not "bad things will happen" nor is it "catastrophically bad things will happen. it is "our messiah will miraculously return to earth in order to bring everybody into heaven or hell and bring about the end times". The difference is that liberal catastrophism is focused on protecting the future, christo-conservatism sees messianic figure (Christ, but also the false idols of Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, etc) the future as something that's always bad and cataclysmic. which is why liberals always go right eventually if they don't radicalize, because after constant doom narratives endlessly they move into the latter category. You should read Transcendental Miserablism by Nick Land to see more of what I'm getting at. you're not wrong though, which is why American liberals are more easily understood as conservatives in other countries. and I just want to say, >Global warming yeah, actually read the rest of my post. cataclysmic soykaf does and did happen regarding the environment, actually, it affected southern states the most with all the hurricanes. even in america there is bipartisan support for environmental protection - conservatives will not say it but there is a silent majority in favor who we can tell from how they donate to green nonprofits. especially if you say "conservation" and not "ecological genocide" or whatever the far left is saying these days. except "global warming" was actually phased out by the political establishment because it was seen as too alarmist, the obama administration cut a deal with the sierra club in order to do so. and people always care about pollution of local waterways, etc, it just depends on how its framed to people. >outrage they would face for not being pro infinite immigration that wouldnt happen lol, but if I implied that there was no politicians who are advocating open borders or how no politician wants to be "soft on crime", you will argue its because there's a popular mandate for state violence. >the economic war against China. China have been economically at war against the west since the 90's we were simply taking blows without defending ourselves. I hope you understand how beloved Donald Trump is in China. as for economic war, why would China do this? all of their customers are there. or do you mean Chinese companies competing in the free market? it's interesting, actually: paranoia about china is one of the biggest things that establishment neoconservatives and employees of the so-called deep state are huge on. the reasons why should be obvious. > explain why there was always an impeachment procedure active and why he now just go from one ridiculous accusation to another. there have been demands for impeachment among the losing party for every president since Clinton. Or perhaps Reagan, now that I think about it. As for Trump, well, nobody's claimed he has no birth certificate. >>79354 I love how someone can write a single sentence saying they don't understand the hatred of Obama that you can generate a multiparagraph essay out of tarring them as an "obama fanboy". I also think it's funny how both of you are claiming to be Europeans while you argue over this. >when he removed the legal requirement for news to be at least somewhat accurate and truthful very interested in this. is it the NDAA or some other legislation? >>79355 >America was a post racial society it wasn't. but you are probably too young to remember the war on terror. have you read the COINTELPRO papers on BLM, yet?

>>79343 https://youtu.be/ZSqs5v926p4?si=7PcZmRgWsIkLTq7E What’s wrong with this video? yeah my ex friends mother was involved with the administration of Obama and Michelle Obama, I agree with you partially, these are around the things I heard You think he knew the policy was doomed to fail? Same with the obamacare? >>79343

>>79358 What anarchist communist community?

>>79358 Lol, ain’t no way you just mentioned Land - I only deeply read him once, it was on meth, - and it was the only time he really made sense to me

Sorry, I made a mistake. I said the SS but the Africans really only got the basic bitch gray uniforms of the Wehrmacht. Still, the sentiment stands. >>79355 >the civil war in Libya was created by Sarkozy >the crisis was created by Merkel They and what army? Especially Germany is barely militarized for obvious historical reasons. The carpet bombs were made in USA and so was a lot of the intelligence conducted there, funding whatever radical towel heads they could find in order to make it a pain for anyone else to deal with that region. Namely the Soviet Union back then but also to undermine up and rising states like Iran. While the Boondeswehr had their own fair share of little scandals and the occasional explosion of a gas transporter while civilians tried to loot its contents, the most damage was done by the US under Bush W and Obama with about a million direct deaths from US operations and many more lives and entire regions destroyed. Just dig up some of those before and after pictures of entire streets and districts where in one you have buildings standing and the other you don't. And while between the 70's and 90's the Arabic nations were secularizing, now the best we can do is forcefully wrangle the power away from guerilla groups of insane radicals to slightly less radical Islamic states. The americaphilic European leaders might have partaken in the events and actions which led to the Arab Spring but it was the US which led the charge. While especially Germany has been a vassal since WW2, Merkel being merely a manager of it who at some point conceded that multiculturalism has failed, yet she kept pushing on. She wasn't even a president after all. Germany does technically have one but if you were to ask random people on the street even in the more educated parts, you'd be lucky if more than 5% could name you who it is since frankly it doesn't matter. If you want to know more about the US-German relationship, I think Rammstein has a song about it that's a good summary. >they would have more Germans in Germany Well, but they aren't Germans so you can guess how well that went. But yeah, ofc. there were many economical opportunists among those people. After all places like Germany got the bulk of it while other countries with less social benefits were mostly avoided. >none of those countries got team Americaed as hard as Italy, Germany or even France A lot of Germans and Italians ended up going to Argentinia but yes, generally they didn't have many places to go so staying and rebuilding was preferred. And it's not like places like Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan and so on didn't rebuild anything either. But now you've got Islamic fundamentalists in power with very strict social rules. The things that some of those "new germans" are doing here, you would get publicly stringed up by your balls or just beheaded on the spot there. Sure, that sounds barbaric and autocratic but it seemed to work for them and is basically what medieval Europe did until things calmed down and we could move on until now. >Obama have the world record of the number of kids killed by a Nobel peace prize recipient As much as him receiving that price showed how absolutely worthless it is I believe the record goes to Kissinger instead. But it's the same friend group so this is just a nitpick. Other than that your post is sensible and yes, Western Europe or rather their leaders didn't have clean hands in this either. Even if it backfired for them. Especially the point about the introduction of identpol on a high political level did undo so much of the race relations we had. Before that, people were chill, got along well enough. Could laugh or just move on over edgy jokes and there was I believe a better sentiment about many things. Like racism and segregation were regarded as stupid and obsolete things but now it has become a different story. Fools may deny this and call those people fringe. And they were 10-20 years ago. But now I see the onset of the pendulum swinging back. My guess is that this was an expedient decision to throw the masses at each other's throat, distract them and hinder any working class unity after they began to be dissatisfied with the economy and furthering financial inequality. Possibly as a response to Occupy Wallst. But in the mid to long term I don't see this working out too well. Maybe our leaders hope to have behavior monitoring brain chips by then or something. >>79358 >States his ignorance on a topic. >Someone bothers to explain in detail. >Lol. Lmao even. Why are Americans like this? Is it the florid in the water supply? And yes, what's the problem with me being European? It's currently like 5am at your satanic empire which has caused plenty of harm over here. >money doesn't exist without the government I don't think you know what you're talking about but one thing is true, you need a government like the US in order to force everyone else to use the petro-dollar. >im in an anarchist communist community rn Camping with your hippie and commie friends isn't a commune. >I hope you understand how beloved Donald Trump is in China. Yes, at one point he managed to sell them soy beans from US farmers. He sold soy beans to the Chinese! Just a business man doing business. >is it the NDAA or some other legislation? Yes, look at the picture he attached. >have you read the COINTELPRO papers on BLM, yet? Big shocker, feds got an informant in any group which grows to a size they could influence things. Just to make sure it operates in a way that aligns with their interests. But since we're about fun facts right now, did you know a Jewish man was founder of BLM? Interesting, huh? >you are probably too young to remember You sweet summer child, do you even remember 9/11? Like I mentioned, the 90's were quite different in sentiment. Not free of any friction of course but it looked like people were able to get along. But I guess you just had to be alive back then. Beyond that I mostly see snark and nonsense from your post. But hardly any real deboonking. You show immaturity and lack of understanding, treading in the old worn out false dichotomies from your US centric perspective and CNN talking points while thinking you're some sort of revolutionary. But truth is, you're just promoting the brain rot status quo.

>>79365 You might like the book "the rise of Suspicion culture" that Keith Woods promotes on his channel, talks precisely about this and it seems like an emotionally invested topic for you identpolitics is the epitome of controlled opposition in a lib democracy, simple as it is important to listen to people who lived in the US at that time though op >BLM was started by a Jew i can barely find any good information on this online

propaganda was there since the times of Bernays, NDAA didn't change anything lol

>>79370 Not really a fan of Keith Woods. Sometimes interesting but too often does he go muh Bezos with a flawed argument in order to push his views. >talks precisely about this About what exactly? Could you elaborate? I'm looking up a synopsis of that book even listening to the video by non other but Tom with Josh Neal but I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me. Am I appearing like a tinfoil hat to you and you're trying to deradicalize me? Sure, I might have misremembered something like not being able to find the exact info I was referring to earlier. But in the process found some peculiar new articles, enjoy. But nontheless I'm willing to stand corrected if new data comes in. Which from my experience tends to be the minority of people and I'm surrounded by many who regard Trump as a dictator (he's not but has other flaws they don't mind) or believe that "misgendering" someone is the greatest threat to our democracy or something. Meanwhile we got rapes and decapitations in Europe because we're trying to merge two drastically different cultures and people just so our leaders and their corporate buddies can have a surplus of labor supply. This is not a conspiracy theory this is real. You should visit one of our Christmas markets next time. They look like border posts of of a war zone, with heavy barricades (sometimes camouflaged as presents or something else festive) and full tacticool police officers with machine guns in position at what's officially declared a "Sonderzone", my guess is that's something like martial law so don't do anything funny while there. And sure, when it comes to people's lives, one can get emotional. In fact I'm not sure you can even care about people if you don't have emotions. Something that the people running Washington DC don't appear to have most of the time when they prefer political gain at the cost of war and human suffering. And not saying that our leaders over here aren't betraying their constituency on the daily since they definitely do but don't have the military complex to push their will as much as the US can and does. >it is important to listen to people who lived in the US at that time though Again on what topic? But generally agree. However sometimes it seems like I've a better look at that house from an outside perspective than the people locked in their respective rooms if you get what I mean. I did consume much of American media for a good while now which is what I judge as the respective zeitgeist of its origin. Granted that's usually the big coastal cities but still. And I've noticed media drastically change over the years. Major pivot point being 2016-2017 for obvious reasons. After news at least pretending to have impartiality beforehand after that they completely lost their mind and it was like they stopped caring. Late nite shows become unbearably unfunny almost over night. And the news cycles also got longer it seems. But maybe that's for the better since that's also what caused many people to ditch TV. But on the other hand, those who stayed and those who went down the alternative news pipeline became so distanced from each other in their perception of reality that is irreconcilable with each other. One side thinks we were held hostage by orange Hitler, the other thinks we're ruled by lizard people. It's the worst in the US of course but it also has been exported over here. And it's making it difficult to connect with people. Lost long time friends over it too over small disagreements. And I'm sure I'm not alone with this experience. Fact is corporations pushed idpol as a means to stifle unionization. I wouldn't be surprised if banks did the same in the wake of Occupy Wall Street or governments to have the peasantry squabble among each other. It's not a far shot to assume that. That said I don't think people in government are necessarily evil but career politicians are most of the time expedient and so are CEOs. Also those positions do attract psychopaths and it comes at a great societal cost.

>>79355 >America was a post racial society IDK Im pretty sure a lot of people voted for him in part because he was black. Maybe some just because he was black. And I guess some people against him because he was black. Who knows maybe some against or for just because he wasn't an African American lol. Even as a kid I picked up on this and came to the conclusion that what they really needed was a black lady to run because then it'd be like H. Clinton and Obama all wrapped up into one. Im not sure post racial society is possible without a pretty serious amount of genocide, or at least separation, first.

>>79358 I do remember America before 2001. Racism was a thing of the past and the exclusivity of bald tattooed social outcasts andjunkies. No one with a balanced social life was even seeing colors anymore. And it stayed this way until the social justice warriors found their fundraising campaigns very successful and got an excellent media coverage. Now half of the blacks are black activists if not supremacists, a quarter of the latinos are latino activists and whites are effectively denied education and kept away of entire industries. 90% of the jobs created in tech since the end of covid were for non whites for instance. Good luck not being a racist in modern America. >as for economic war, why would China do this? Every single country try to take advantages of the others except the west. China is just good at it. They lure you with their big market to make you open a factory in China, then throw one million administrative points at you so you can't operate and you have to leave behind your investment and your intellectual propriety. The commercial balance is in their favor and they take entire billions from America every year. This capital is then used to fuel the chineese economy and not the American one. Talking about it used to be a taboo. The last taboo Trump broke is to point how Nato isn't an alliance at all and how many members just tag along without pulling their weight, hopping that uncle Sam would do all the work alone. >>79379 He got elected to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, to repel the patriot act, to close gitmo and to not wiretap the world. He was hope, unlike Mac Cain. I said was. Obviously, when you stand for known criminals who got killed while trying to kill someone like Trayvon or Michel Brown while your job is to represent the nation, and twist the events to make it look like a racist murders, then you divide the nation. And then not everybody love you.

>>79393 Cool theory. I remember seeing some pictures, posts or news about piles of mystery bricks suddenly popping up everywhere randomly during BLM riots, and some original BLM activists' interviews/personal youtube videos on how they thought the movement was hijacked to suit overt radicalism and mindless hooliganism, when the original intention was to just organize the black community into a political interest group and use that as a leverage to effect political change like in the times of the Black Panthers, which all fit the bill of elites' efforts to divide the US population along racial divides in order to keep them scattered and powerless to resist their exploitation. Say, would you happen to know are those graphs from an article or study and do you know by name which one, by any chance? I'd love to have a little bit more context on them and dive into the material for personal research if possible.

>>78953 of course, there will be elections soon and now people will "misteriously" start posting this soykaf here. They will say they walked away from the democrats for vague reasons. They will say trump is the best for vague reasons. They don't want to talk about it, they want to spread thei propaganda like they did in 2016, when they spammed this soykaf on every comment section of the internet, not just the english internet. The way op phrased it and the picture should be enough to take the whole thread down. > since i'm at it and going through a leftist disillusionment, should the adequate left vote Trump? this is a huge non sequitur which does not make any sense > why? if biden wins again imho there will just be another war in the middle east, and no taking care of the immigration crisis. and sweet words. both are cooked but biden is a def of a cabinet plant. trump seems as simple as a pumpkin. ik about the downsides of him being a con artist, abortion and trans issues, but there is literal military being driven into New York subways and streets because of crime rates. this sh1t has to stop war in the middle east? trump is a huge israel supporter, moved the usa embassy to jerusalem, said multiple times to nuke the wholke middle east into glass. the immigration crisis is just a far right talking point. also, look how op avoided to mention the fact that trump asked the republicans to vote AGAINST the border bill, and they obeyed. They voted AGAINST the border bill while claiming it is an absolute emergency and existential for the country. There is not a single drop of good faith in op's post

>>79393 >Every single country try to take advantages of the others except the west. Actually us is the most successful at it. The dollar standard alone serves to exploit other countries. French did the same on smaller scale in africa. Germany pretends to be nice but exports arms at third place. The present merchants of dead making money by inciting wars exist for about 200years now. In general the scheme is always the same - moral reasons are used to mask underhanded evil intentions. The west is just better at PR than the east though it might also only look like that because we sit in the middle of it and dont get real news that would challenge that view. And its too uncomfortable to admit for anyone that maybe you aint really in a different position than the other evil country they always tell you about.

>>79402 Remember suspicious deaths of DeAndre Joshua and Darren Seals were both found shot in the head in their cars both lit on fire and it happened two years apart. Though there was multiple similar cases in the area unrelated to any police brutality cases or protests so maybe not that odd since burning the car helps destroy evidence so anyone could do it but odd it just happened to these two specifically among the few other cases with similar MO in the area.

>since i'm at it and going through a leftist disillusionment, should the adequate left vote Trump? No, they should vote anybody other than Trump because of legal actions against him on the news. Bush was great, Obama was great, Biden was part of a good force to this world, but Trump hadn't made USA any better.

>>79402 oh right because the black panthers were the image of totally peaceful.

>>79441 the point rather was that they got soykaf done. BLM weren't peaceful but they didn't get soykaf done either, because nobody got cereal (and those who did get were most obviously done away with either by mob mentality or by establishment covert ops). at least black panthers didn't go around yoinking sneakers and TVs in the guise of social justice.

>>79444 >they got soykaf done and thats why they got deleted. People like 2pac got offed while bigey&co sold out. Bigey confessed later the labels made them sing about hustling, never was their own idea to promote it to the black community.