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depressed people are depressed because they have a higher threshold for intensity and depth of emotion. like all similar signifiers, this state in depressed people signifies that something is off. they should not aimlessly take pills which leads them down a conveyer of consumerist death, but find a world that would fulfill the demands of emotional depth. people not realising this is the reason we have this world order Byul-Chul Han: "Depression is indicative in an auto-exploitative freedom-pressure achievement society" Indicative of the wrong social order.

Depression also can be in form of blunted emotions which is what I developed. I used to be sensitive but then something in me broke. >>77968 Maybe. But I'm not sure cellular energy is the only thing when also anxiety causes the same effect of a loss of energy.

depression was at an all time low during the american great depression. perhaps that was because everyone was too poor to see a doctor and be called depressed, but I've heard that statement used as a criticism of modern society, where depression is at an all time high. it seems in this regard that when we have more we are less grateful, but when we have little we can be more grateful for what little we have. even in modern day, the difference in fulfillment between a new york city boy and a jamaican agrarian socialist rastaman is great.

>>77968 its specifically because of people like you proliferating major parts of the psyop culture of psychocentrism since Edward Bernays, fapping on physical essentialism and calling frameworks that encapsulate socio-political contextualities "idealistic", that we live in this world. Thank you! My congratulations. some kid will read this and you've already put this fvcking virus of anti-realistic non-humanitarian positivism masked as "cynical realism" inside of their hands! Bravo! Why dont you go read something on politics and sociology before indoctrinating misled teenagers online? Really don't have to study in Berkeley like me to know how to read a book and not be a piece of sh1t, right? ;)

>>77970 perhaps. there were many studies on the anxiety of wide-choice options as compared to narrow-choice options (p pop) which also seems to lay at the heart of frameworks like the kierkegaardian "anxiety of freedom" and frommian "will is the ability to embrace freedom". > people were the least depressed during Great Depressoion interesting not sure where you took that from "Even among those fortunate or wealthy enough to avoid economic disruption, the Great Depression took a psychological toll. According to Green, psychiatrist's offices were packed in the early 1930s with those from the upper classes attempting to cope with the economic mayhem. The confidence of the average American fell to a general malaise and inertia as unemployment grew and the Depression set in. People waited for something to happen, spinning in circles as they fought to survive. Suicide became a part of everyday conversation, particularly as the stories of bankrupt Wall Street traders jumping from tall office buildings entered the public mindset. " cant pinpoint where that could be heard politically for now, but that seems like a stretch argument. could be used easily to proliferate pro-state "pure positivism" rhetorics of understanding social disorders like the gentleman above is showcasing, though.

>>77975 >Why dont you go read something on politics and sociology before indoctrinating misled teenagers online Funny cause you just saying "read my indoctrination material to have correct opinion" >>77970 Same dynamic is still present with west vs places like africa. I dont think its about how much crap you possess. The west is a free range prison / insane asylum. Everyone gets to safely exist but they are also a lot more restricted in what they can do. There are permits and regulations for every minor thing. You have no freedom and whats the point of living without doing what you want. So either you go criminal or cope with doing nothing aka depression.

>>77979 i quite literally told him to "read books on sociology", where is the indoctrination, check your logic. you're missing the point, its not a correct opinion. its about understanding the dynamics of power. the whole american society is disordered, but the focus is on the disorder of every specific individual while they're pushing the psychiatric modules the most. do you really have to study somewhere up "high" to understand whats going on? hm, really makes me wonder! such a truly unobvious thing. what a puzzle. ---- not responding to anything else on this thread

>>77980 modern education books on politics are just more traditional propaganda outlets. They lie by omission and construct narratives that fit promoting the authors values. You may object that not all are trash and that is true, especially old books will tell history forgotten but when you tell a random to read books they will get stuck at the current popular crap and not the niche outlier.

>>77969 It is related -- when cellular energy cannot be sustainably produced, the body uses stress reactions to adapt. These increase energy production (albeit inefficiently) for a time, primarily by means of fatty acid oxidation. The prolongation of these stress mechanisms is a loss of energy. The brain loses the coherence needed to make good decisions. In the long run, cells fail to sustain inbuilt anti-tumorgenic mechanisms and become cancerous. Cellular energy is a powerful and effective way to think about disease processes that isn't very popular in the west. I recommend that you look into Ray Peat. >>77975 You too seem to have a hypothyroid, stress-reaction-type writing style. If anything -- the reason the state of things is poor is that we don't respect Matter enough. Instead, we feel that we can will the desired state into existence. I think my philosophy is a life-affirming one. It posits that spiritual change is possible through simple materialistic alterations, and not mental gymnastics that no one is really all that good at anyways.

>>77970 I seriously doubt this. The Oregon Medicaid study famously found that the only thing giving someone Medicaid actually does for their health is reduce depression, because depression is so closely tied up with one's finances

>>77970 maybe you're confused with brits during the battle of britain with regular german air raids. nothing gets the spirit up like a good war.

>>77975 You mentioned kids on an 18+ imageboard while on a thread about mental health, not any of us lainon.

>>77994 i know Ray Peat. had a mini bit on him as nutritional pseudoscience mfer literally proliferated the "estrogen in our water" transphobic type b$ and you calm-heartedly tell me to read him. Might as well tell me to join a cult. Thank you "Peat's dietary views have been embraced by the far-right and white nationalists, notably Bronze Age Pervert" > your writing is hypothyroid im 90 percent sure this is a troll of course im fvcking stressed. I've never seen people on a relatively good chan spit so much b$ at my face for the whole of my life. > my philosophy is a life-affirming one i dont know if your attitude carries any internal pull to fight for something, some ideal, but like with every positivist i talked to, it surely seems lukewarm Should we read Bruce Lipton as well? >>77981 here are good professors, books, sources: Ellie Anderson - Overthink Podcast on Byul-Chul Han - The Burnout Society Michael Sugrue - everything. RIP dear professor Berkeley Sociology courses Sacred And Terrible Air Cyberpunk genre, Gibson Ursula Le Guin Dostoevsky MIT Open Courseware all Stanford EDX

if an alt-right pseudo nutritionist is "life-affirming" and "respecting matter", then i surely must've gotten the wrong fvcking chan.

>>78088 >"estrogen in our water" transphobic clearly you are in the tranny cult already anti-baby pills being based on estrogen and not getting filtered by sewage plants has been long known

>>78090 "Contrary to popular belief, birth control pills account for less than 1 percent of the estrogens found in the nation's drinking water supplies" yeah, wrong chan

>>78091 you claimed it didnt happen and now you cope with its not much...

>>78092 Not replied, but please don't argument like this. I know (some) lainons are better than pulling a "mmm how curious mmm" outta their ass. His point is, it is so insignificant that it might as well have absolutely no impact at all. You know. When they create a category on a graph that says "Others" type of insignificant. And they (the people you read about) fail to mention all the myriads of other chemicals that might end up in your sewage water supply. Estrogen might be one, but testosterone, too, might end up in it. As well as chlorine and don't even start me on all the pesticides that might end up in the mix. All the cyanide from those apple seeds in the cores that you throw in the garbage!!!! BUT. before we even continue talking about all of this. How does this all relate to the premise of OP? (and, honestly, if there even IS a premise. OP pretty much spill the soykaf there.) I feel like we won't get anywhere with this. We need to switch our focus because it is not the treated sewage water that's going to fix our maladies. I don't buy it. Most people buy bottled water anyway..... There's so much more (more grounded in reality. in practice) to worry about and yet we worry about this. Why? Why are people depressed? Because we don't have enough money? Why are there so many people depressed nowadays? I think lainon here >>77970 has a point. We just have way more resources to diagnose people with depression and people are also opening up more to their vulnerabilities to their doctors and therapists. Was it always this way but really didn't have the resources to realize it in the past? Do people who are depressed really have a higher threshold for intensity and depth of emotions? Is it exclusive to people with chronic depression or to all depression cases? What does Byul-Chul Han mean when he says: "Depression is indicative in an auto-exploitative freedom-pressure achievement society"? Who is he? Why should I care what he says. You could have quoted someone like Albert Camus who rationalize his depression with the conclusion that life is inherently absurd and pointless and that's why he struggled to find happiness.

>>78095 The baby pill story is like 30+years old. "we have bigger sources now" doesn't make the old story wrong. It's rather confirming that it became an even bigger problem if the former biggest source is only 1% of the current total. Its a selfown. And generally im too lazy to explain the issue cause i know it will fall on deaf ears anyway. As soon as they get offended and reply emotional you already know its a waste of effort to argue honestly.

>>78095 Not that Lainon, but let's be fair: They were goalpost moving. The entire issue, however, comes from the fact that this nutritionist happens to be liked by people they disagree with politically, this suddenly communicates that we should avoid them. That's like not drinking water because hitler drink it, and that isn't even remotely far from what was stated.

unironically though, is this chan actually transphobic? ive seen latest posts discussing why trans people had adequate political positions and now it does not show up anymore

>>78101 ask an actual nutritionist about Ray Peat, and you'll understand why im about to close up this thread in some time. (no, its because ive heard it brought up by different 20-ish pseudointellectuals around the world now 100s times, and its really fycking annoying. surprising, however true)

>>78095 i didnt quote Camus precisely for the reason that he does not socio-politically contextualize depression. >Who is Byul Chul Han? Why should i care about him? im not going to force anyone who wants to stay enlumpenized to educate themselves on anything as a general rule of thumb, but nobody cares about him because of the context of his popularity in the field and because its easier to assume that life is inherently absurd and just go with it, instead of recognizing the larger political context of the history of psychology in publicity in america. liberal democracy of us capitalism is built on the <psychological> construct of supremacy-presumption by the meritocratic top, where the rest are generally "sheep" who need guidance. so in psychology, what is that "guidance"? i understand not giving a fvck about the world in Europe - like ok, it might be a less hostile environment - but in America, wouldnt you at least want to know how then psychology and other educational functions of the state are used, knowing the insane inherent power dynamic? thankfully, most people on this chan read cyberpunk so no explanation is needed, but the point w depression brought up in this post is just about that. its important to understand the power dynamics and political context of what the label depression is, what it gives, what it takes away, and how it can be used. its plain, and thats what the post is about, i phrased it in a liberal way to say the least, because i thought it would get deleted anyway i'm not exactly adressing to you, because if you dont care about chul han you wont care about this - but i believe it was Bergson: people are made to care about the what and the how (depression and how cure from, your typical libby label relation) rather than the why (teleological thinking) because if people cared about why they are depressed, the system would crumble.

the state of modern America and neoliberal psychiatry can be described in 2 sentences: Poor woman, LA: i can't fvcking deal with this sh1t anymore, this "billionaire" is right down the street, blocks down, yet he cant give us even a fvcking penny or donate the facilities. i feed all children alone, even the poor people help each other but these fvcjks just do what they want, put on a clean uniform that has no trace of vomit from a single-handedly raised child of 6 am in the morning, stare at the dying kid down the street and sometimes give a penny if one of his legs is broken. I cant do this anymore Doctor: "You depressed! Take pill. You need money for pill. Then you give child pill" the issue is that these people are put in a position where they are too worn out to think and turn to a quick fix from a system which is designed to make them politically autistic and docile which mutilates their ability to recognize the enemy and fight and i understand her because i also grew up like this.

>>78116 I think the general issue is anyone with balls got killed and so the meek inherited the earth. Its not that they dont get it, its that none of them are willing to fight against it. Old literature on revolutions mirrors marketing research on early adopters - 20% have a brain 80% are npcs following peer pressure. Avalanches occur when the early adopters support you enough to reach a critical mass that attracts npcs steered by popularity.

>>78111 real nutrition science which vacillates on major positions and gives into horrible schemes like the food pyramid, and has overseen the period of highest obesity in human history. Right. I think I'll take my schizo advice thank you very much (not a rape eat fan myself but he's at least as credible as the other quacks). >>78110 you're off topic, but the term you're looking for is transtagonistic. >>78091 Not him but an alarming number of people take birth control and this surely has mental effects on a frankly very large fraction of the population in many countries. Seems like something to be worried about in its own right!

>>78124 It is curious to me that someone on here of all places is making an appeal to the most banal, coldbrained Authority imaginable -- "nutritionists".

>>78124 birth pills def have a very emotionally destabilising effect on the female psyche nobody denies that, i just cut these conversations because thats not what the thread is about

>depressed people are depressed because they have a higher threshold for intensity and depth of emotion Honestly, stopped reading. Pseudo-scientists out.

>>78139 im not sure if youre the same person as used the same handler before unless you have bipolar; as for your point - is Kant a pseudoscientist too? Bergson, maybe? Kierkegaard? wb Marx?

>>78123 your point is v similar to that of Kierkegaard and his critique of western culture, along w his religious "leap of faith" (as you can see Lucy and David also making, in the photo) - which he said is the leap one makes when giving yourself away to the supreme (supreme love) and wonder, which enlightens people to the ideal that they they forget so frantically in modern western society. he says we have lost our true priorities as well as the sense of duty and that leap is none other than a single thing that can open us to a true, deep re-consideration through the recognition of how much we might not know, and possibility. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mit01QVmiZA) also, that sounds like a weirdly Russian perspective on Americans, are you Russian? after traveling to 30+ countries also the exact same conclusion i came to one could argue that in a society which encourages political autism to stay sane is an act of strength in itself, as surviving in a madhouse, but a lot of american citizens seem so easily... gaslit?

>>78123 could you mention any of the sources you used for this analysis?

>>78153 Not russian but close enough - slavic immigrant from a former iron curtain country which means i still got same soviet union background. My family history is parents telling how relatives got gulag'd and some still praised stalin as the savior despite losing half their family. Same time some of the family worked for party because it was the only chance to dodge being next. Literally choosing path of least resistance helping perpetuate the problem. Living in several european countries i see the same pattern. The native people complain about things like gentrification but they wont act. Not even on a minor level like voting. Instead if i address the issue with natives they will ensure me "things arent that bad and when its bad we will vote different". Highlight was portugal where old guy said its okay we survived the moors - moors where invaders who enslaved and beheaded them during their occupation but i guess they dont teach them that bit, they learn look at the exotic architecture we have now for tourism. >78154 Bit long but let me take it apart: You already know about the 2 world wars + various other conflicts. I simply reason every war shifts the ratio of brave vs meek towards meek. 80:20 is called paretto distribution, common pattern occurring across many things. The origin is interesting because the idea is what ratio creates the highest information density for a signal. For example using morse code if you just send 1's or 0's its no message at all. So whats the optimal ratio of 1 and 0? Result was 4:1 is optimal. Wikipedia should have the full story. Its interesting that such a theoretical idea actually shows itself as a real result in nature. - Early adopters vs mass market chasing popularity is in regular university economic literature.The important lesson is you have a segment that chooses by their own criteria what a good product is, those you call early adopters and the rest is wider mass market which hops onto your product if its just popular. You see this pattern with every product where original customers complain about popularity made it bad - and they are right, you drop the early adopters as soon as you got critical mass because its not worth catering to 20% when you can get 80%. Next step was marketing figuring out we dont need early adopters - lets just fake popularity. This is now the norm and why many spend more money on marketing than the product itself. - Now the most difficult one is the old revolutionary books. I honestly barely remember them, someone dumped them here years ago and i skimmed through them. They were written between ww1 and ww2 but i only memorized the pattern that different political camps uniformly lamented most people only obeying status quo and the big mission being getting a critical mass from the minority of receptive people which mirrored the early adopter pattern i already knew from economics. I makes sense because selling a product is uniform even if the product is different.

>>78158 thats very interesting i wouldnt extrapolate paretto distribution onto all spheres cosmologically so far, simply because I've seen a lot of experts advising not to do that ive seen lumpenism in europe as well, but it is much more tame and outwardly good-natured than in america. last time someone derezzed Palestinian go-fundmes from my experience w volunteering (international reach) was dutch/amsterdam yes theory moderators a lot of this seems interestingly tied with the idea of equality, which is a historically ironic concept. As you know, even Night City was founded as initially the safe haven of equality, cosmopolitanism and peace in a hypercompetitive world. I believe it was someone adjacent to Adam Smith (but not De Botton-adjacent, way back) who went at length about how egalitarianism failed to capture the collective shadow (unconscious, since everyone hates jung now) of populations which bread discontent. (https://youtu.be/0jK4snSgjI0) If some things are to be more valuable than others, people must still feel it even through the veil of constantly bombarding propaganda. Also seems Deleuzian with its schizogenic society, where the individual is depressed at the inherent intuition of the majority of the world being unable to prioritize. the conundrum with equality is a very interesting one, but to be frank i never understood it fully your demeanor seems very familiar. did you by any chance write a post about tor and tor exit nodes or something like that? >>revolutionary books its a very good idea to gather psychological techniques from intelligence. ex: Alice In The Wonderland technique extrapolated onto populations by bombarding people with large amounts of contradicting data

what would you say is the difference between the 20 and 80, the leaders and the followers? did the man himself have any works on that

>>77955 Reminds me of casinos. Someone who needs novelty more than other people should be doing something crazy involving infrared cameras on drones or bankruptcy law. But if they have an easy outlet to try, they will just get lost in the pretty lights and emotions of the slot machine. That is wasted potential, especially when they have "addictive personalities" that could have become addicted to something fascinating.

>>78184 Making your own decision comes simply with a lot more requirements 1. Skeptic mindset is minimum requirement to consider whether the best rated product is actually best or just fake reviews. 2. Patience to learn the market which takes effort and can be very boring 3. Self confidence to trust your judgement over public opinion 4. circumstances - money&time limitations limit range within which you can make decisions Life is a lot easier if you simply dont bother and settle with good enough going by peers. I believe many are also both followers and leaders but in different fields - focusing your efforts in one area to lead comes at the price of getting led elsewhere because you lack the resources to be a leader everywhere.

>>78194 1920s edward bernays started "expert marketing" with malicious misleading wording. Before him everyone just printed "buy our product, its good!" What he did was recognize people trust experts so we have to weaponize experts to sell. So he made a study "a heavy meal is better than a light meal for breakfast" and printed "bacon is best for a heavy meal" next to it to sell bacon. Others saw his success and copied. Doctors even got weaponized for smoking advertisement. They gave them cigarettes and immediately asked if they smoked and then printed "18/20 doctors smoke" Another scam is the "9/10 dentists recommend toothpaste brand X!" - dentists could reply with a list of brands so while the dentists did recommend their brand, they never recommended it as the best choice like the line suggests. We had this in high school. Did you school cover it? Curious about others experience.

outside of the white-glove academical sterile treatment of the problem what you need to take away about this schtick is the reversal of power dynamics you have a bunch of governmental workers who are significantly more stupid than idk your general academ participant molding the minds of people who are not yet as braindead as themselves. lumpens enlumpenize people who are easily gaslit (sheep or whatever) let it fly --- that being said, most Americans i've spoken to did not get taught about this in school

If your life is small, small problems seem like the biggest thing ever, fuarrrk that soykaf Depression is a symptom, you don't cure cancer by treating the symptoms (pain) with analgesic (painkillers) How many people are willing to objectively think about their depression? How many people are willing to go to the source? As Thoreau said: "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." >signifies that something is off >world that would fulfill >wrong social order Be the change you want for the world, start dopamine detox Lamenting won't ever do anything to solve a problem maybe someone wants you and a billion others to be sad and unmotivated, ever though about it? fuarrrk them Sometimes life is like learning something new, it looks so complicated but when you use your brain for a few minutes and understand you realize how simple it is