What is it to not have a father

My dad died when I was was 4 and wasn't the most stable individual but as far as I can recollect never hurt me and I even have memories of him going out of his way to make me laugh or get me something cool or to bond with me. Supposedly when he died I cried, but I dont remember that I remember just being excited I got to stay at my cousins while my mom went to the hospital (he was horifically burned and my family didnt want me to see that at such a young age). I never really felt like I missed out on anything by not having him around. People at school would say they dont know how they would live without their dad or vaguely imply they felt sorry for me, but I actually didnt like most peoples dads in general (though this may be because mine died). Whenever I was at a friends house and their dad would come home it seemed like suddenly we had to stop whatever fun we were having and "have fun with dad" or listen to their dad tell us something a kid would hardly understand or go somewhere else to play cause daddies tired. There was multiple attempts I think to introduce me to positive male role models but I dont think I ever thought "I want to be like this person" if anything I always thought the opposite. Often times with certain cool old old men, specifically teachers I had, id think "I hope when im that old im as wise and kind of at peace as them". But rarely did I even want to spend time with some like 40 year old I was related to or who was my friends dad. The no dad thing I remember did make me hyperfocused on death and the world ending like as early as 7. Id have major episodes of hypochondria or would sit awake at night crying cause I saw something on the TV about how a meteor could hit the earth. This seemed to be more about my dad dying though than my actual dad, and the death part I think did significantly alter the course of my life. I also know a significant amount of the people ive been friends with I find out only later they also didnt have a dad (usually an absentee one rather than a dead one, which I always thought seemed much more difficult to deal with). Which always kind of pointed to me there must be some underlying thing this creates in someone. I do find im "missing" some concept most men (and many women) seem to share about "being a man", although often there isnt much I like about this concept. Theres things I like about it ive figured out reasons for myself to do (because they just were traits I admired) and never saw as some social thing about "being a man"; such as caring and providing for others, being stable, being calm and fast to act in stressful situations, etc. However when most men would talk about "being a man" and had some strong concrete idea of it (im assuming from their fathers) itd always include several aspects I had no shame at all in not having and still dont. Competitiveness, "making a name for yourself", demanding respect, etc. More often then not when interacting with people who felt like every man should engage with these things I didnt feel lesser in the slightest and they just seemed pissed off and baffled I wasnt playing some game with them all guys are supposed to apparently play. I also didnt feel like such people were people anyone really admired outside of other men like them, I certainly didnt at least so im probably biased. Of course these guys im speaking of were young at the time, maybe going through this whirlwind of insecurity about being a man (which im assuming is about living up to your dads image in some sense) leads you out the other side better. I dont really feel like im doing any different though im just living up to my own image rather than one I was given. However I do feel like somethings probably missing and im not quite sure what or if it even has anything to do with this. At 26 now I was looking into what really are the effects of not having a dad and everywhere just lists like an all encompassing chart of socioeconomic negativities. Mental illness, substance abuse, trouble in school, etc. The handful of issues in these kind of typical "fatherless" issues listed everywhere that I have such as mental illness are ones almost my entire family has, and I suspect my interactions with them growing up shaped me having them too (much less so at that) more than not having a dad did. Because my dad died when I was so young, a lot of this post is just sort of stuff ive tried to piece together as I really dont even have any idea of "what im missing". I never think about any internal issues im having or faults in my personality as some result of not having a dad, usually I think of them as something I just havent learned how to work out yet and probably can learn to through other people and information and practice. If there was some thing I struggle with that was caused by it, such as often assuming other people think im evil or dont like me, I wouldnt really ever figure out the root of the issue lied in some deep deel child development thing around not having a father. Or maybe worse, I may not even notice what thought pattern or behaviour is causing me grief at all if it stems from such a thing. Of course I have to work with what I have but im curious for those of you with and without dads what you observe about the other party. I am not really talking about things you hear in memes online about fatherless behaviour. Im more talking about patterns you observed from those close to you or even acquaintances. What things do you see that they dont even seem to notice at all, or what things maybe have you talked about and realized perhaps you differ in because of this? This is probably a timebomb of a discussion to have on any chan but im gonna throw it out there anyways.

To not have a father figure is to be deprived of the ability to become a man like you mentioned. All of the knowledge and wisdom about your father you are to learn from him and your family is lost. At most you may hear some stories about him here and there, but nothing to meaningfully shape you as a person. So much is lost, it cannot truly be accounted for. There is no way of knowing what it's like to not have a father, as you never experienced what it was like to have one, a similar example being born blind, how can you know what it's like to have vision if you've never seen before. A void remains. Without a father figure you're left to try and derive attributes to implement within yourself from media, but that can never substitute all there is to be given by a fatherly figure with literature, television and movies, and you are also left with your own judgement to determine what is best to become, not that of someone with actual life experience. I wonder if you're already aware of that considering the image you used for your post, I've seen the image associated with Blood Meridian, the absence of a father is one of many subjects mentioned in the book.

We don't respect authority out of love, we respect it out of fear. The distinction lies parallel to sympathy, where sympathy is always an introspection projected onto that which humans sympathize with; 'In sympathy is self reflection.' The paternal security we sought as children was transferred to the state, or body of power(gang activity) where state power and authority is exceptionally diminished. This can also be religion or vice just the same. I met my father in my early 20s learned what I needed about myself over several years, and dumped his cancer ridden, crack addled body and mind in a metaphorical ditch, where in recourse I often find myself reminiscing my own callousness. He, as a person, didn't deserve the way I left him. Me, as a person, deserved to vindicate myself of his stupidity. This dissonance is the price I paid for the 'confidence' I was never taught as a boy, and every aspect of myself that was shaped by my insufficient childhood, lack of a father, and growing up in an american warzone. As a boy, I couldn't trust anyone and hid it. Now I make sure they fuarrrking know it. As a boy I was afraid to die, now I'm afraid to spend my death incorrectly. The unchecked rage came back, beaten out of me physically and psychologically, but now it's extremely sharp and targeted. I don't have "confidence" the way people present it; being afraid of everything my entire life has made me so jaded and situationally aware that nothing surprises me. I don't let anyone know anything about me, because everything I know about everyone else is something I can use against them. The times I say too much, I hate myself for the human weakness of desiring to communicate, whereoften "too much" is just an opinion of mine that I don't want people to misinterpret because they're fuarrrking stupid. "Keep your eyes on the road and your word off the street." In people with healthy, whole families, I see the trust I'm incapable of giving. They trust the system, they trust the news, they trust businessmen. The stability, safety and love they got as a child secured their emotions and psychology as valid, therein they trust themselves implicitly. They suffer no internal doubt, yet lie to themselves constantly. They don't ask questions, because 'they know the answer.' The source of their delusion is their happiness, their childhood innocence still intact. In a way I feel bad for them, because happiness is a weakness to me, but no one deserves to suffer what made me strong. This dissonance is the price I paid for the 'confidence' I was never taught as a boy.

>>74690 Yeah I specifically looked around for an image relating to or that evoled blood meridian that wasnt something overt like a drawing of the judge. Im aware of the sort of take you present, I dont totally agree but I dont think its wrong either. I will likely never "be a man" in the sense you mean even when people may think I fill the role. In the past ive grown distant from people who started to place me in such a role as it was confusing to me and I felt as if they were making me into something I wasnt and liked that instead. That is to say, even when im outwardly seeming and filling the role, internally that effect is produced for entirely different reasons than actually "being a man". I feel misunderstood and maybe even insulted when I am treated as someone filling this role. My first realization my lack of a father affected me in ways I didnt know was when I got intensely angry at a male therapist who started trying to have a "guys talk" with me when I was around 20 in an attenpt to "give me direction" (at the time I was very lost). This had happened before but in this instance I had no other reason to be so instinctually averse to the conversation he was trying to have especially as im very open normally to all discussions (especially from someone trying to help). After this sort of vague realization when this would happen in the future itd result in an anxiety, as if I was being entrapped into something I wanted no part in and the fear that I might react aggressively to it. >>74691 I dont relate to everything here but I certainly relate to a good amount of things. I dont have much respect for authority even though I do have respect (only recently developed) for society and to some degree laws. However authority in a vacuum as you say has always been a source of fear and theres never been love for it. I have to be the highest authority even if that means being alone, the only exception is when I really come to understand and respect someone. However even then I more follow their lead cause I want to learn, understand, and then take bits of them for myself. This is actually one of the few things ive seen about not having a father repeated that I agree is probably by in large very common when you dont have one. Its taken much effort and thinking and coming up with my own reasons to learn to do the things i dont want to but "should", and not do the things I want to do but "shouldnt". Whereas to most people it seems to just be a given, common sense, difficult sometimes but not enough to be a central problem in their lives. It needs to make intuitive sense to me why to or not do something, I dont have any soneone I admire where I just chose to do things like them because I wanted to be like them and figure out the why as im doing it or after. Also in my case that paternal power was definitely transferred to both vice and religion, as young as when my dad died id ask my family who largely wasnt religious to take me to church. To this day I read a lot of religious books, commentaries, and anthropological writings. Your second two paragraphs I dont entirely resonate with but I do in a sort of key way, my confidence doesnt come from where it seems to come for other people. I take very little pride in anything I have or accomplish and quickly move on to the next thing. If I did something once, im not always confident I can do it again cause I hardly remember the feelings of overcoming it. My confidence largely comes from my ability to be unbothered, patient, and to not buckle under stress. As well as in the ways in which im unmotivated by things other people are (beyond basic need) such as money or happiness or social status, and subsequently confidence in the ways ive managed to still survive and persevere by creating my own reasons for doing things independent of any reward. However id like at some point to figure out how to allow myself reward and feel accomplishment in things ive done, as I think living like this has created a lot of stress in me that could end up hurting my health severely down the line. As you said I dont think anyone deserves to suffer without any respite and id extend that to myself, though im not sure how to break through.

>>74695 >Your second two paragraphs I dont entirely resonate with but I do in a sort of key way But of course! We can only offer our perspective, and I was lucky enough to at least meet my father and 'bear witness to myself' in a way. It caused a lot of grief, but equal understanding, of which you might never find. As for authority, I speak from a very deep understanding of myself that I've come to acquire with age and circumstance; I do not disrespect or fail to recognize it. In my short time in the military, I had no problem following orders, and despite what I said prior, "We respect authority out of fear," fear isn't why I followed orders, it's far more deeply seated and I'm far too manly. Suffice to say, to condense my ruminations, Respecting consequences(fear) is closer in format to Stockholm Syndrome then respecting a leader(love) for their role as such. I've never known a leader. I've never had a role model. I don't fit in, so I stand out. People look up to me. I've become the leader I needed growing up. But like you say >I've grown distant from people who started to place me in such a role Lots of kids in the military looked up to me, as I joined in my later twenties and most who join are 18. I'd expect this, and I don't blame them, but it offered me a very poignant sadness as I found I couldn't reciprocate my place in that social order; I never learned how to 'look up.' How could I possibly sympathize with people who look up to me? Cold is such an edgy word until you realize how accurate a metaphor it really is.

>>74697 >Suffice to say, to condense my ruminations, Respecting consequences(fear) is closer in format to Stockholm Syndrome then respecting a leader(love) for their role as such. Thats weirdly a good way to put it and it sort of lines up with how I feel too, vague as it is. And what you are saying about people looking up to you makes sense. I often myself think I cant imagine why someone would look up to someone else in like all aspects. I can in pieces of their character (Ie I like this aspect of them) but I never look up to someone in themselves. I dont even have any desire to at all, to me it just seems like a mistake and I wouldnt wish anyone to do that to me and id rather they value themselves and just see something in me they like (not me in entirety). For a period of time I did look up to just about anyone, and I dont recall it as a good period of my life. And this is why I dont wish it on others, though maybe I dont see some middle ground good it can bring because of my experience being so on the negative side.

>>74695 In spite of what I said, I don't necessarily think you can never "be a man", but it will be significantly harder. I think without a father the only way to really become a man is to have kids, although you won't know how to be a father you'll learn through experience, no parents really know what they're doing. I don't have a dad either, he left when I was 7. I had a lot of issues growing up because of it, without his support my family experienced incessant financial struggle and all the issues that brings, I had several health crises, injuries and the like. Then out of nowhere he died. I was just walking through the living room and my mom made me sit down, my heart sank because I thought I was in trouble as I had already had tons of trouble with school and the law and she told me that he had died. I don't know how he truly died. They said it was an accident but his death looks to be a murder that was covered up as an accident by someone he was living with so they could inherit the land and wealth he amassed. The very day he died all these leeches came out of the woodwork to get in on the inheritance which was meant to go entirely to me as my father had made it very clear when I was born that he wanted me to inherit everything he had. I don't truly know why he left, I can only guess. His departure completely ruined my life. Everything slowly fell apart in his absence over the course of years, and at the pinnacle of it all he died. He worked a hard job 7 days a week for decades on end to save up money to start a business and some worm came along and probably killed him and destroyed it all. I think I've pretty much become what is to be expected of someone without a father, dropped out of highschool, had trouble with the law and conflict with my mother. My "family" ended up losing everything because my mother couldn't afford to pay bills. We ended up moving out of our country to live in another with a lower cost of living. It's not a good country. I tried to not be negative and give this place a chance but through my own life experience I've come to see that this country is dysfunctional and soykafty. Been here a long enough time to know it. My mother has not kept a single promise she made, she does nothing but lie in bed all day when she said she was coming to this country to work. She doesn't even know what life is like here, she doesn't go outside, doesn't speak the language. I've learned that she is an idiot and mentally a child, she can't cope with any stress, she's pathetic and I resent her for it. There's been nothing but problems for me here. There's no future here, one friend of mine literally told me that I don't belong here and have no future here. I have nothing left in my life. All I can do is just try to get a GED and return to America. I have no friends and can't make any, can't trust my mother, can't do anything other than learn and exercise. I don't like people who come from normal backgrounds. When I was growing up I didn't dislike people with normal lives. For some reason I've changed. I probably have more reasons than I can recall in this droning ramble, I'm probably oversharing, this post is getting long, haven't ever talked about my life before. I look down upon people with normal lives. I see the issues they have, the worries and concerns. They fret over the most trivial things, like grades on some assignment, or clothing, girls, friends, video games, or whatever. To me, normal people are weak and unprepared for reality. They crumble when they're faced with strife, I watch it happen somewhat regularly. Simply hearing something inconvenient or unfortunate visibly causes them stress. When a car backfires they flinch. They complain all the time, over the simplest of things even. If they don't get what they want they get upset. If a system is organized in a soykafty way, namely bureaucracies, they'll go and complain to the people running that system as if the people in charge really give a fuarrrk what they think. I don't understand it. The one positive aspect of having certain life experiences is that they make you stronger as a person. My experiences have left me far more wary of people, police, legal proceedings, and my surroundings in general, I'm hypervigilant. People will ask about my relationship with my family. People are so disturbed by somebody not being close with their family. They think you're a bad person for it. I hate talking about family with people, and I never want to get close enough to someone to have to meet their family because I know how a family would view me. I don't talk about my life anymore. I've learned to not share any details about my life with anyone. People don't understand what life is like for others. If you explain, they still won't get it, they'll offer you worthless advice, tell you soykaf you already know, and chastise you for not being ecstatic about life even though you aren't being negative. They think that if you just do all the "right" things in life, do things how they're meant to be done, things will just work out, and it's not like that. There has never been a good outcome when I've shared a mere sliver of information about my life with someone, never. I am very quickly made to regret whatever comes out of my mouth. I feel like an idiot when I do. Life is a jungle. You have to be a rock, you can never share anything with anybody, no matter how difficult it is to keep things inside at times. Humans inherently desire to connect with others which is why it is so hard sometimes. When you open up to others they will always harm you. Despite not having a father, I've never felt like I'm not a man. The thought never crossed my mind. I haven't had such concerns yet, maybe in a few years I'll be struck by the absence of my father. I don't really know what a man is supposed to be, I don't care about being competitive or demanding respect either, I don't care about any of that, I just do what I want, I don't care about other people. I don't think I have a lot confidence either, I prefer to underestimate my capabilities, I think people tend to overestimate their capabilities, I've seen people do it to try and impress others, for example overestimating their knowledge in the English language, when in reality they know nothing. As soon as they are tested they relinquish their claims.

>>74702 A lot of this resonates I think we have sort of slightly different outlooks on it all but at its core like most things so far I relate. Il try to keep it brief what your post brought to mind. For whatever reason ive always highly valued flexibility and patience. I think id phrase it differently but we seem to be frustrated by similar things, other people getting frustrated at things we feel they shouldnt. I often say "The only thing that annoys me is people getting annoyed". Even as a kid when I could sense someone getting angry or flustered id like taunt them further into it, not because I was just evil and insane but because I was getting angry that they were angry. Thats a pretty childish coping mechanism and obviously I dont do it anymore, but to this day I start to get angry myself when someone is all puffed up and pissed off about say like waiting in line, something or someone not behaving how they want them too (which in a way I guess im doing), circumstances out of their control interrupting plans, I guess anything that provokes a sort of untargeted anger. I work with animals and theres someone at my job, this old guy, who gets all flustered by them and when I watch him as he like stumbles around yelling trying to get ahold of them and pacing around it just fills me with irrational rage. Its like a baby throwing a tantrum at some minor upset, only I cant tell myself "its a baby what do you expect" (though sometimes when im especially jaded I do view everyone as just a giant baby and it makes things much less aggravating). I dont not share details about my life or speak openly because im afraid of it being used against me but I do feel the regret with almost every interaction I have. It doesnt matter if it was a positive one, il think "that went on too long" or "now that we had this positive interaction they will be looking to have more with me and what if I cant provide". The only reason I dont worry about it being used against me is the way I live my life I sort of feel I can always remove myself from any situation or person. Though I cant remember anymore if the reason I navigate like this IS in fact because of some instance of manipulation or someone using my words against me originally, its just not the occupying thought anymore. Thinggs that sort of conflict with this "I can just leave" mindset, like having a long term relationship with someone, fill me with many troublesome thoughts I end up sorting through on sleepless nights. Im doing it, and have been doing it for years now, but it feels like a constant struggle every day. It on any given day feels like im giving up myself to have a secure connection, like work, like I cant truly relax around my partner (though these days I cant with anyone except myself), like im just stalling an inevitable breakup that will happen when I "cant do it anymore". Im always filled with a sort of paranoid doubt, this might just be my depression and im seeing this theme of self doubt here simply because not having a parent leads to depression. Im also noticing this sort of theme of self doubt as a virtue with your underestimating your abilities comment, and thats something I have too. As much as I know I need to doubt myself (and by consequence others) less, I cant count the number of times me "underestimating my abilities" or assuming someone else might be right and im wrong has led to my safety or greater wellbeing or good connections. So its hard to completely disregard my self doubt as all bad and thus like "eliminate" it. My own self doubt is also why sometimes people come to me for advice, if you need someone to consider all the ways you might be going about things or seeing things wrong im awesome at delivering that without being insulting. Im not fond of it when it leads me to not doing something or pursuing something I want, but I am fond of it for my everyday navigation of the world. I am highly critical (but dont always dislike) people who always assume they are right first and I see often how in the wrong hands this leads to hurting people. I often think if I operated like that I could do so much more, but then I also think maybe I couldnt; as my always careful and self questioning brain is part of who i am and part of why I even value the things I do. I rarely ever claim expertise on something unless I really have poured time in it as its very easy for me to imagine what a "true expert" in something is and its like I can visualize how they would see me claiming im awesome or an expert at something. I have friends that will do it very casually, and I hold my tongue, but im always thinking "I know less than you about what your talking about and still can piece together you dont know nearly as much as you think". This isnt a thought I share not just because I know it wouldnt be met well but I also know its somethingI tell myself that discourages me from further exploration. If someone overestimating their abilities gives them the push to actually end up being as good as they say, i dont want to discourage that. But that probably wont be me, as I mentioned ive had to find my own reasons to "stick with things", and not engaging in ego self sucking is one of those things ive had to find an alternative for. Your situation sounds rough, so I understand the pessimism. Things are okay for me right now (resisting the urge to say but who knows for how long) and so theres some things we differ in but in a weird way I think relate at the core. I sort of did the opposite where I used to not like people from normal backgrounds, but now am okay with them. However I often "filter them out" probably not always accurately. But as much as you can glance at someone or have a quick chat and know they sort of had a typical family and societal outlook, I tend to stray clear. I dont think they are going to bite or something but I do think we probably dont have much in common, and because I think I probably cant find common ground with most people (partly my own fault im working on) they get kind of filtered out as I hone in on the people I think I could have some commonality with. Theres also an element, and I wonder if maybe you relate to this, of "I dont want to interfere". This underlies a lot of my interactions with people, and why I often remain quiet even when I could contribute something. I dont want to bother those normal people with a bunch of stuff that might just bring them down. Even with people I relate too, I dont want to disrupt their decision making with my million and one hangups, precautions, and ways I could imagine whatever they are deciding on playing out. Whenever I do, like the conversation thing, I feel a sort of regret. Like "Who are you to interfere, you should have just let it play out and watched, how do you know your interference even made anything better". I often can feel like how time travelers are portrayed in movies, where they have to be careful not to disrupt too much or the timeline will get messed up. Could just be a me thing, could also be a rationalization I made after the fact of a series of behaviours stemming from something else entirely. But I was reminded of it so I brought it up

Attachment styles are psychiatric pseudoscience, but in self reflection I think they can offer a better understanding of ourselves. I'm particularly avoidant, but I ere away from taking this label too seriously. While logical in it's observation of upbringing and the expected psychology of a developing child(+as expressed later in life), defining oneself with generic, widely applicable metrics should be met with equal suspicion of their validity. But sometimes we can't see ourselves unless we're looking in a metaphorical mirror. For me, learning that "avoidant" was a potential descriptor of other people brought me a lot of peace, like the pieces I thought were missing are in fact exactly where they should be. It's from this stability I learned to grow.

>What is it to not have a father Literally the worst thing ever if you are a male. I grew up in an all female household, and they constantly set out to emasculate and weaken me. They STILL do it to this day, and I have grown to feel a hatred for them. I was taught womanly values and to act like a woman. Naturally I do not trust women at all as a result. I think the worst father would have been better than this, or even being an orphan who was just left to his own devices.

ok heres my response before i read everything: >paragraph 1 well call me a piece of soykaf but personally i think its really wrong as a parent (talking monkey, so wrong as a talking monkey) to try and hide the truth of what happened with some part of life that affects the respective person, even if its horrific i think if you saw your dad you might be more conscious and not have some subconcious stupidities or inabilities, basically come to term with it and "realise" it, because when it just "happened" its more like its just there and its snagging away at you. idk maybe im just a sack o' soykaf >paragraph 2 yeah because (and heres an idea ill reference a lot) feminime and masculaine should be beyond gender, like im not a trans or whatever but im saying fundamentally fem and mas are recieving and giving, and in a certain dimension of life (the sensory) to achieve enlightenment you have to achieve polarization, so having opposits be in motion at the same time. like todays society thinks you have to be 100 percent a man, so call me an asshole again cause maybe you had no dad to put on this standard of "you gotta be THE MANNNN!!!" and 100% masculine you kinda just went towards this polarization of masculine-feminine (recieving-giving) {and yes its a sexual thing where to you think we get that words from?, but stop being so scared of being a f a goot} but like i said there are also some subconcious effect ill say later. now about the social thing yeah its definitely people scared because someone wasnt scared about you being "THE MANN!!!!!!" thinking your a bitch, although there is some validity. now not wanting to be a role model your default would be like just this neutral polarised state and so a kid wouldn't be that open minded (just a theory) >paragraph 3 so the hyperfocused dead hthing is the inital stupidity, and you might subconciously repeat the fear OVER AND OVER AND OVER today. it might seem absurd but if your observant then you can pick up on it with all the conditioning stuff. make what you will with that. nowi gotta ask do you feel like you still try to "recieve" and give at the same time in your current being (not in sex) so yeah? if yes then again like a kid not making way or just not getting an alternate way thats arbitrary (not good or bad thing) or maybe you really are what all those dudes fear, "BEING THE BITCHHH!!!!" in a nushell: ever seen those kids with like super overbearing mothers who drag out their words? and usually their big bitches? yeah that some think its cause no dad i think its just that motherly values are projected which are of course feminime, so maybe in that relationship a dad is needed, but from reading i dont think your mom was super overbearing like that, no? aight now back on track what about those "concepts" well the concrete idea is simply: society's idea of masculinity. and yeah its pretty soykaf, brain dead and simple minded. so nothing special you just weren't given to it/passed down from your dad. so yeah again (for the third fuarrrking time) call me mr asshole but in this sense being fatherless may have enlightened you. >paragraph 4 no this is just a stupid society thing, like right now a lot of young men are worried about getting those "relationship points" by being "THE MANNN!!!!" and those old guys you talked about who were chill were probably just the people who realised how much they were trying and completely gave up, so your identification could support the theory you've become appropiately polarised? +1 asshole point well those negatives are more of results about the research so like i said being overly feminime or something and just general confusion can fuarrrk up someone because of being fatherless. oh yeah and like im saying you arent really missing something in the polarised scale thing ive been going on about for so long now, but its more like you HAVE *something* THAT THEY DONT HAVE. for the pattern, just try to feel out for incentives of your current "situations" >paragraph 5 uh like the only important thing about fatherlessness is that combined with the overbearing mother like i said, and other than that i got no clues (wierd since ive spewed so much claptrap so far). ok thats all i have, sorry if its all incoherent i kinda made this critique up on the spot.

Not having a father does not mean that you necessarily will do worse in life, lainon, it is more of a statistical probability. I feel that the main cause of your insecurities is a lack of family support, which I relate to, and it could still happen with a present father. This will sound too general but the best thing we can do is to form bonds with people around us and be part of a community. For me, being a man is deviating from the norm when necessary (which happens a lot more than one would think by just looking at how alike people have become) and taking my own judgements into account instead of just trusting whatever people around me are trusting in an age dominated by conformity. Does that mean that some people will see me as less of a man because I don't act a certain way? Yes, in varying degrees, but it is more important to follow what I think is right. Dealing with what people think is just a part of life, I try to value people who have more reasonable opinions.

>>74757 My mom mainly just hid that part from me then but I know a lot about my father and exactly what happened (I just was told later) What you are saying is actually totally in line with my internal every day thoughts. I also think masculinity and femininity are beyond gender and I do feel in many ways im glad to not have a dad. But I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt to the people who say I only think those things cause im "fatherless" but not those actual people cause I think its all mostly just memes in their head. I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt that maybe someone without a father is actually missing SOMETHING (just maybe not the sort of thing that falls under "masculine" or some kind of premenance. There is definitely no way id be convinced by any of the sort of men im talking about cause I agree with you I think they have some problems themselves they cant see. While not having a father I think presents problems I didnt see, having a father who (in my eyes) was allowed to act like a manchild (i think many were in the generation above me including my own dad) creates problems i do very much see. But I also know many people hyperfixated on masculinity and gender norms and things like that browse this board, so I tried to kind of avoid saying anything concretely in that way and make it a neutral experience based question. What the question im asking really is, is like "at its core, what makes someone without a father different", Whats the common set of things or kind of experiences that all of this social stuff with associations tacked on maybe calls to in some vague way but isnt really accurate. Theres probably stereotypes about "fatherless" people for a reason but I doubt those stereotypes probably apply to even a majority of people and are likely even more secluded to a subsect within a subsect of people who were fatherless and terminally online and some combined common experiences with that. tl:dr I guess, I largely agree with everything you are saying I just felt I wouldnt get good answers if I opened like that. What you are referencing with "other then that I got no clues" is really what id like to figure out. What is the other then that, and I feel like with online discussion really the only way to piece it together is just with people sharing experiences even if they have some spin I recognize I hard disagree with.

>>74768 i was mainly trying to point out that there isnt really anything i see different with fatherless people, but then again i havent seen people with no father role model on top of it, so your search continues

>>74773 yeah I guess thats the more important bit probably. I could imagine if you had an uncle or something who was always around it probably wouldnt be too much different other then in consistency. but also thats a fair point you dont notice anything different regardless. like i mentioned one of the things that got me wondering is a majority of my friends also didnt have dads and this wasnt something we knew about eachother till we started having deeper talks. However if you asked me to pick in a lineup who had a father and who didnt I wouldnt be surprised if i had no accuracy at all in predicting.

>>74721 >and they constantly set out to emasculate and weaken me It's hard to move beyond, because you felt targeted for your entire childhood. I grew up in similar circumstances, but it's not women's fault. That is their role; To be conniving bitches. You'll see it later in life and it will make much more sense, where as a child with no sense of the sociosexual balance, it's confusing and you're 'the weakest monkey.' The sexes compliment eachother without sex being relevant. (Avoid the troon soykaf, I'm speaking of averages.) Men are often lazy yet extremely capable; Women are often driven yet nearly impotent of ability. Balance. Men are often autistic(Even frat chad) whereas women often gossip. These sociosexual perturbations manifest a social structure resistant to outside influence, where a system without the same seemingly counterintuitive facets wouldn't be nearly as strong. Ripples on water resist other ripples, so to speak, but a flat, uniform surface of water is easily disturbed. In every environment where evolves a poison, also evolves a cure. You weren't a target, Lain. You were alone. It's not women at fault, nor is it you. The shoe fits perfect, unless you're a hangnail, but as a hangnail, you have an extremely unique perspective. >>74757 >but in this sense being fatherless may have enlightened you. Wise words. Perspective is far more valuable then some people give credit.

>>74691 >We don't respect authority out of love, we respect it out of fear Perhaps this belief is specific to fatherless people. Almost everyone respect authority out of the general understanding that we need a social structure to flourish. That was my one bit for the thread.

>>75062 I dont know, do people with father really respect an authority due to warming acceptance, or general understanding. I have no reference to understand it differently than by fear. Why understand it anyhow else?

>>74691 >As a boy, I couldn't trust anyone and hid it. Now I make sure they fuarrrking know it. As a boy I was afraid to die, now I'm afraid to spend my death incorrectly. The unchecked rage came back, beaten out of me physically and psychologically, but now it's extremely sharp and targeted. I don't have "confidence" the way people present it; being afraid of everything my entire life has made me so jaded and situationally aware that nothing surprises me. I don't let anyone know anything about me, because everything I know about everyone else is something I can use against them. Wow I'm probably older than you but you described very succinctly what it felt like when I was younger. Lonelier than ever and less trusting now, coming to terms with what that means, because I don't care what it entails

>>75077 I am not a gunslinger cowboy and I know without authority, the world would be Mad Max. I know my life would be a lot worse if it come to that, so okay, I will get a job like everyone and pay my taxes. Of course I disagree with many aspects of authority, especialy in the dystopia we are living now, but take a look at Somalia and Somaliland. It used to be just one country, and pretty much everything is the same in the two parts except the government. Somaliland have an autocrat junta, a brutal one and extremely corrupt but at least it have a government. Somali does not. Only Somali need convoys of humanitarian help to keep it's people fed. You see, it's not that I enjoy not being able to take what I want, it is that I like to keep the things I worked for. I like to know potential murderers will think twice before killing me because there is a jail somewhere. I like to know my ass is going to stay virgin because no rapist want to become the bitch of another rapist in jail. I have a nice and easy life and it's because we have a superstructure organizing social life. Having a security guard at the mall who once in a year want to look in you bag is preferable to seeing all the stores close because stealing is easy. Obviously, not all kind of authorities are worth accepting on the sole quality that the alternative is chaos. California have made a law that make it legal for former violent criminal to steal if they stay non violent. They can even sue the shop if the security guard use violence against them. Communist dictatorships have a long history of killing everyone who don't want his agricultural tools to be melted, who is Ukrainian or who don't want to leave his village to work in the factory for food and to sleep in the streets even in winter. There is no shortage of bad forms of authorities but one that don't go postal is much better than a lack of one and so almost everyone is fine with seeing half of his hard earned money being taken to feed administrators.

>>75082 >that we need a social structure to flourish How did you learn that? Why is it that you feel that way? You didn't sit down as a 5 year old and argue within yourself the intricacies of the social fabric, rather, the social fabric was demonstrated to you as the functional aspect of your stable surroundings. Some of us don't have those foundations. Indeed, the "social structure to flourish" isn't something I see as requiring maintenance; You purport it's upheld by our common morality, principles, or ethics, perhaps a combination of all three. >it's not that I enjoy not being able to take what I want, it is that I like to keep the things I worked for And I assure you I don't disagree, but the structure you see isn't an engineered facet of communal agreement. It's a very biological, very emotional matrix of complex interactions that are inherently fragile and prone to collapse. It's not surprising that our worldviews are predicated on our upbringing. That's actually exactly what this thread is for.

>>75084 >You didn't sit down as a 5 year old and argue within yourself the intricacies of the social fabric, I think nobody do that before he is 25 year old. Most probably never think about more than their immediate surroundings. If you grow up with an authority that is just, no matter if it is tolerant or severe, then you grow up with the demonstration that authority is protective and a positive force in life. Kids know they can hurt themselves, they know they need guidance and they know they can't face to world without their parents. As an adult, you discover the authority for adult with this mindset. Obviously, politicians love to abuse of the situation. >ndeed, the "social structure to flourish" isn't something I see as requiring maintenance; History have no shortage of societies that decided to become less rigid, that question the very basis of what make it functional and invariably, they become a society of the past. >but the structure you see isn't an engineered facet of communal agreement The basic elements of what authority should be are. I won't kill you and you won't kill me for instance. Morality is a lot simpler than what the people who think too much think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg