Are people bullied for a reason?

It kinda hit me when I realized that when parents, mentors and higher ups of all the sorts talk about bullying (in school, at work or in any other place where 2 or more people perform a certain activity and have to interact with each other and/or form groups) one thing always remains left out of the equation: it's the reason of the person being bullied in the group. It may sound as though I have a huge complex, but keep in mind that if it smells like soykaf everywhere then, maybe, you are the one who shat yourself: I never really have anything to support the conversation and be interesting for other people to talk to, I just talk irrelevant bullshit instead and they get annoyed and sometimes even pissed, I openly express my dissatisfaction with them or disagreement with their ideas whenever I have them. I am a bit slow and things get to me a bit later than to others. Keep in mind that those aren't my subjective impressions of myself or baseless complexes, because I often hear people, who interact with me confirm them. They also say that I am not utterly stupid, but rather "weird". The sore of weird that would perhaps be called "autistic" here, but meh, whatever, it's hard to find a personality trait with a slightest nerdy tilt that wouldn't be called autistic on imageboards so I don't think of myself as of an autist for merely being interested in computers slightly a bit more than other people as well being a power user (but not a programmer since I don't hold a job, though know basic stuff and coded a bit for fun). Fortunately for me, as soon as I realized that talking irrelevant stuff isn't contributing to conversation I have greatly improved my social skill and people became more willing to talk to me. Though it has its side effect: not knowing how to continue a conversation would usually bring me to talk about anything just to not look like a stuttering glitterboy in the eyes of others but now I am kinda bound to. I remember the post (either on here or on 4chan, I don't remember exactly) where the guy talked about similar topic, but it was from the perspective of the aggressor and the title went something like "should I bully people more?". Some of the points made there are actually pretty reasonable: -people usually don't get bullied if they contribute to the group's achievement or wellbeing; -people, who do get bullied, on the other hand, are more often than not are an objective drag for it. Now before you think that I am advocating for bullying: ai don't, because I think that unfortunate souls need to get help, not scolded or beaten, but I kinda understand that this is rather just my subconscious bias and I struggle to find an objective reason to be good to people who are for one reason or another may be hard to deal with... What do you think of it, folks?

>>74193 When I was in school I wasn't really bullied much, but I was completely ignored and isolated. It was the worst time of my life and I wanted to die. Sometimes I wonder if more bullying and less isolation would have been better for me. I figure probably not though. School bullies aren't looking to provide guidance, they're shoring up their own insecurities using a weaker person as a prop. There's no path to not being bullied by acting right, or even if there is it isn't one I would have taken from what I know about myself. >-people usually don't get bullied if they contribute to the group's achievement or wellbeing; Maybe bullies could be providing meaningful guidance in a better world. How many people even have a friend group coherent enough to be worth protecting or enforcing loyalty to? People don't stay together, they aren't allowed to care about each other in a lasting way. It isn't a bad thought though. Aggression doesn't always make things worse (just often) and can be better than alternatives. >because I think that unfortunate souls need to get help, not scolded or beaten, but I kinda understand that this is rather just my subconscious bias and I struggle to find an objective reason to be good to people who are for one reason or another may be hard to deal with... I don't think people really act for rational objective reasons very much anyway. For me hatred is enough to want those people to be respected.

Bullying is almost always done as a way to promote ones own in-group status by terrorizing someone from the out-group. Often the actual bullies are not at the core of the in-group themselves, they see it as a way in. Intra-group bullying is really just a type of pecking order enforcement, which is different in character and outcome.

I agree; The victim of male bullying should see it as a sign to change. Parents and institutions who only consider the bully having behavioral problems, and make this known to the bullied, probably worsen the long-term situation for the bullied. (Girls (and women) take a more indirect approach to bullying that likely requires different considerations.) But yeah, bullies practically never manage to steer the bullied to the right path, and to lose status as a "target" is not easy, so parental intervention is required.

>>74193 >What do you think of it, folks? Bullying is a complex issue. Most bullying is done by sociopaths seeking the rush of power, picking physically weaker people such as younger or less athletics kids. fuarrrk those mfs. But some people are just socially inept, insufferable, or simply jerks, and when other people react negatively, these people call it bullying. That's the kind of people that get "bullied" everywhere they go. The perpetual victims. I don't really know what should be done with those people. I don't wish anyone any ill, but at the same time I don't want to carry the weight of explaining some random dude I barely know that he shouldn't be making futanari jokes in a job meeting. I just want him to get lost, although I'm sure I'm part of a group of bullies in his eyes.

A little schoolyard bullying can be good if there's proper guidance from your parents and appropriate interference from teachers. Ideally, you learn a lesson about how and when to stand up for yourself, how to develop a sense of self esteem and self worth that doesn't rely too much on others, how to handle bad faith actors without getting your emotions disrupted, and empathy for how being unkind can affect others. Unfortunately, this only happens if you have a good support system, social environment, and the bullying isn't too extreme. Otherwise the bullying can be traumatic or cause you to learn unhealthy coping mechanisms or develop unhealthy outlooks on life. And of course, if you don't have a good support system and social environment, then you're more likely to be targeted by bullying, so vulnerable people are getting bullied more than those who can take it. >people usually don't get bullied if they contribute to the group's achievement or wellbeing; Bullying is mostly present in school settings and in those there's not really a coherent sense of group achievement or well-being. Sometimes there's small stuff that sort of fits the "good for the group" idea, like picking on the kid who reminds the teacher about a quiz they forgot or picking on the kid who acted up in class until the teacher gave the the whole class an extra assignment (do teachers still do this?), but usually bullying is just done to whoever reacts in a funny way or has something different or weird about them.

>>74193 >Are people bullied for a reason Yes, I will answer this without even needing to read your post. The reason is that they are weak/have no one who will protect them. That is the sole reason, nothing else is even relevant. If they see you as weak, they will bully you to subdue you to ensure you know your place in the pecking order. It is not done for your benefit. It it not done to benefit the whole. It is done because, on an individual level, if they can make you accept a lower rank, then they have ensured more resources/benefits for themselves.

>>74193 Bullies bully because they want validation and they want to use outsiders as means to boost their own status.

>>74230 Yes this is true they don't do it for the victim but the audience.

>>74227 >Yes, I will answer this without even needing to read your post. The reason is that they are weak/have no one who will protect them. That is the sole reason, nothing else is even relevant. If they see you as weak, they will bully you to subdue you to ensure you know your place in the pecking order. It is not done for your benefit. It it not done to benefit the whole. It is done because, on an individual level, if they can make you accept a lower rank, then they have ensured more resources/benefits for themselves. nailed it

>>74230 That's the generation x excuse, but that's not always the case. It's really funny how stupid people behave about it, like it's this mystical thing that no one can comprehend without having to use weird projection-based tools. Sometimes, I guess, it could be validation, but that's mostly just people who are already bullied that are thinking this could be a way to get it to stop (this is probably why gen xers and their followers think this way, I guess, but that's just because of soykafty movies that people adopted this type of thinking.), despite the fact that all they have to do is. Usually it's course correction. Sometimes it's territory marking. Sometimes it's hazing. Sometimes it's a soykaf test. Sometimes it's a pecking order check. It's not that the "Bully" is thinking this way, it's just how it works. It's mostly just course correction though. Beating up an outsider so they either convert to the proper social rules or fuarrrk off is some of the most generic, easy to understand soykaf imaginable.

>>74234 >usually it's course correction No? I would say that's an extremely rare reason why someone is bullied. Why is this just being treated as a given in this thread?

>>74236 not him. I expect its rare that this is the reason it is given but that doesn't mean its not an effect. Many kids can be pretty blind to common social signals (and others may be ineffective at expressing them), but bullying is a clear sign of power dynamics and relationships that is difficult to ignore. An oblivious or stubborn kid might ignore or be unaware of indirect social signs of disaproval or challenge, but effective bullying makes it easy for him to figure out at the very least that some problem exists, and he can then work on a solution.

A lot of kids join in in the hopes they become less likely of being the next target

>>74236 >I would say that's an extremely rare reason why someone is bullied. I'm going to go out on a limb here: Why do you think you were bullied in school? Because you were special for some reason? Easy target? Let's be honest, if it's because you were special somehow: Outsider not conforming to the social hierarchy or conforming to the social rules. And the other issue of being an "easy target"? What makes you an easy target? Weakness? Most kids are weak, a week or two of doing some pushups and hitting a punching bag gives you the edge over most kids. No, it's a different kind of fundamental weakness. In fact, a lot of the times, it might just be you seeing it as bullying, which is another type of weakness. The whole "I'm a victim" thing, but that is a different subject matter entirely. >Why is this just being treated as a given in this thread? Because it is. Who gets bullied? The outsider. Who else gets bullied? Nobody because there's a massive difference between banter and bullying. If this isn't understood, then it makes since why you'd be weirded out by what we're all saying.

>>74238 This isn't really true either. It's just social conforming, most of the kids aren't worried they would be next, they're just participating in the social activity of punishing the Other for not conforming, too. There isn't even a requirement in bullying someone, but there is a requirement to not join in to protect the Other because then you "therize" yourself and will deal with the consequences. If you establish yourself as, forgive me for using this terminology here but there's no better way to put it, the alpha male in the situation: You'll immediately change the entire dynamic. People will recognize the issue with themselves not falling into the new order and just leave. Even the main bully will make some snide comment and leave. As long as you aren't the sole protector of the Outsider, the person being bullied is no longer the Outsider. If you, the Outsider, establish yourself as not a complete pussy: You will have just created a slightly more acceptable subgroup. If you don't understand this example, look at how people didn't really mess with the "goths" in certain schools, but they did in other schools. The reason isn't in lack of assholery, people are assholes. It's because there either were enough of the "alt" crowd or the few goths there established themselves as a genuine part of the culture, albeit subculture, but culture of the school, nonetheless. I had moved around a lot and I saw this dynamic. The new kid dresses like a weirdo, you get a few days and then someone will try to start soykaf. Once the soykaf is handled, depending on how it is handled, the rest of the school year is pretty much set for you. If there is already weirdos there, you're probably fine. If there aren't many, or any, then you've got to deal with things as they come. Have I clarified enough or is there something missing here? Look I know people don't like the basis of "might is right" but that is actually how things work in the real world, whether or not anyone wants to accept it is irrelevant. The way it worked for me was that I'd get messed with, I'd fight back, win or lose didn't matter as long as you don't get knocked out or cry: No more bullying. One school I was stabbed in the locker room and, because I didn't make a sound and continued to try to fight the guy, I was no longer bullied. When I had moved to another school, 12th grade linebacker mexican threatened to fling me, a 9th grader, off the second story and all I had to stare him right in the face and say "I didn't do soykaf to you, but if you touch me you can go fuarrrk yourself while I'll rape your parents and burn your house down" and all I had to deal with was the principle checking in on me every now and then to make sure I wasn't a school shooter for the rest of the term. Was it drastic? Sure, but this guy looked like he benched three times my weight easily, so all you have is words or running at that point, and running is a death sentence for the rest of the year. The thing is, if you just stand up to people and you're generally fine. Just don't cower behind authority figures. It's all just my own personal experience, but I was a tall skeleton-mode emo loser that attended 7 or 8 different schools. It was the same across the board from elementary school up to high school.

>>74243 >I'm going to go out on a limb here: Why do you think you were bullied in school? I wasn't really. Everyone assumed I was a snitch because I was a teacher's kid. The few times I could identify bullying I can't say I understood their motivations at all. >Because it is. Who gets bullied? The outsider. And why does that mean that they are getting bullied for "correction"?

>>74247 If you don't see how bullying someone for being part of the out-group is a corrective measure, then I don't know what to tell you, man. Think about this. It's very, very straight forward: If you're bullied for being an outsider, that is to say you are being bullied for not following the community rules, it stands to reason that by falling in line with the community rulees, or no longer being an outsider, you would stop being bullied.

>>74251 >If you're bullied for being an outsider, that is to say you are being bullied for not following the community rules Being an outsider doesn't necessarily mean you are not following community rules. There are people who follow every rule to a T and still are considered outsiders for one reason or another. Similarly it does not follow that just following the community rules makes you an insider.

>>74252 >Being an outsider doesn't necessarily mean you are not following community rules. I see now, this is exactly why you are so confused. You seem to be, somehow, misunderstanding what "outsider" means in this context. You can grow up in a small town, know everyone, and always be the outsider. A lot of people don't even know they're an outsider. This is why bullying will continue well into adulthood, even in small areas. >There are people who follow every rule to a T and still are considered outsiders for one reason or another. This means they are not following "every rule to a T", only the ones they think exist. There's undertones and certain things. Another way to think of it as intuition thing. This is why certain people are creepy or don't seem trustworthy, despite the fact that you probably can't point at why, because they're an otherwise normal person that seems well mannered enough, well-dressed enough, and so on. Or how it's easy to tell who is a new user or not in a community, regardless of how well they "seem" to fit in. Or how anyone can tell if they are a woman or effeminate male instead of just a random guy. Some people understand it, most people feel it, but some people genuinely have no concept of this and will refuse that this exists. >Similarly it does not follow that just following the community rules makes you an insider. This comment seems to make me think you don't understand how hierarchy works or missed what I'm saying. Ignore the concept of the "insider", just think about how there is outsiders and non-outsiders. You, being a teacher's kid, were an outsider that no one wanted to bully because you don't pick on the teacher's kid, that's a sort of position of power, which makes you no longer able to be treated like the outsider you absolutely are, so where does this leave you? An "insider"? No. But you won't really be considered part of the out-group. You're just "not an outsider". I don't intend to be rude here, I just can't figure out a nicer way to write this. I spend like 10 minutes trying to figure out how to word this and this is the best I could come up with: I'm not talking about complicated metaphysics here, it's straight foward. I can't really write much more simple than this or elaborate further on it without degrading the conversation to something too abstract that will probably be too confusing and someone will want to know what the hell Ax has to do with Ay.

>>74255 >This means they are not following "every rule to a T" Are you saying that all factors determining outsider status are controllable behavior?

>>74257 >all Most, but not all. If we wanted to be reductive, short of being a dysgenic mess, leaning into a general "yes" wouldn't be absurd. Although, I'd only been to one school where a retarded kid was made fun, and the one guy who did it... Well, it did not go well for the guy when a bunch of the baseball and track guys beat the absolute fuarrrk out of him in the parking lot while the cop and the principle very slowly walked towards the group to break it up.

>>74255 >This means they are not following "every rule to a T", only the ones they think exist. if you're ugly or deformed idk maybe you'll get bullied for breaking the rule against being ugly/deformed?

>>74193 in this thread: op and other lains cope hard with stockhold syndrome

>>>74251 this guy licks boots for a living! >>74236 > why is this just being treated as a given Some lains want to be the bully one day, so they're hoping to justify what their bullies did to them so they don't develop any self-awareness and realize the absurdity of justifying poor behaviour as "corrective". Like they say: some abused become protectors, others become abusers. Several of the lains active here are actual neonazis too, so you can guess why they would want to justify brutalizing people to "show them their place". To them violence and coercion are givens to "improve society", and bullying is a "selective pressure" to "weed out the weak and unworthy". Classic fascist soykaf.

>>74255 >You can grow up in a small town, know everyone, and always be the outsider. Indeed, I agree. >>There are people who follow every rule to a T and still are considered outsiders for one reason or another. >This means they are not following "every rule to a T", only the ones they think exist. I don't think this follows. >This comment seems to make me think you don't understand how hierarchy works or missed what I'm saying. Ignore the concept of the "insider", just think about how there is outsiders and non-outsiders. Okay, sure. Replace "insider" with "non-outsider" and I would still wholeheartedly agree with my statement. >I'm not talking about complicated metaphysics here, it's straight foward. Every question has a straightforward, simple answer that is completely wrong. >>74258 >>Are you saying that all factors determining outsider status are controllable behavior? >Most, but not all. If we wanted to be reductive, short of being a dysgenic mess, leaning into a general "yes" wouldn't be absurd. This is basically the same point and I think it gets to the root of the matter. I don't think this is true. Many schools are heavily divided along racial, class, and church-affiliation lines, none of which a child is really able to control.

>>74262 >I don't think this follows. No, you're just not following. >Replace "insider" with "non-outsider" and I would still wholeheartedly agree with my statement. Except that an "insider" and a "non-outsider" are not the same thing. This should have been obvious. >Every question has a straightforward, simple answer that is completely wrong. No, I'm entirely, 100%, absolutely correct. Your understanding of bullying is completely out of bounds, off-the-walls regurgitation that started with freud and ended with single moms who couldn't understand why their sons were socially stunted. >simple answers Yes. Everything socialy is absolutely, 100% simple and straight forward. Life isn't as hard as you wish to make it out to be to make up for your, or other people's shortcomings. >Many schools are heavily divided along racial, class, and church-affiliation lines, none of which a child is really able to control. Race? Yes, almost entirely. Sticking like with like solves this problem. Class? Not as much as you probably think. Church-affiliation? Not as much as you think. >none of which a child is really able to control Everything I have been saying is about about learning your station. How are you not picking up on this?

>>74261 >this guy licks boots for a living! Except that this is actual bullying. The downplaying of a statement without supporting anything except made up nonsense that can be ignored by people who agree with you, which is intended for signal boost to other outsiders, so you can rip on them too because I/we am/are not falling in line with what is the status quo. That's supports exactly what I am saying, because that is completely how the world works. I'm the exact opposite of a booklicker, you're just a retarded nigger who cannot comprehend the entertaining of a thought without accepting it and the ability for someone to both explain and rationalize something, without having to accept/support it.

>>74260 instead of coping in some normal way of talking about the very common experience of being bullied as a kid and how it hurt them the wild lainon must abstract and intellectualize about bullying and forcibly distinguish themselves from healthy coping means to arrive at the grand conclusion that bullying is okay and that they should bully people or that its human nature and out of their control (like every other bad behaviour talked about here).

>>74264 >it's okay to be a bully because you have to bully someone into not bullying! Checkmate atheists

>>74263 >>I don't think this follows. >No, you're just not following. Yes, because you're wrong. >Except that an "insider" and a "non-outsider" are not the same thing. This should have been obvious. ...yes. I still stand by the modified statement, even though it means a slightly different thing. >No, I'm entirely, 100%, absolutely correct. Ah, if only saying so made it so. >Yes. Everything socialy is absolutely, 100% simple and straight forward. Lmao. >Race? Yes, almost entirely. Sticking like with like solves this problem. Okay, so you agree that there are huge factors at play that somebody can have no control over, yet still be considered "outsider" for. Keep in mind that for a lot of immigrants "one's own" in the local area is literally only their family, and children do not necessarily have the ability to decide where they move to or what school they go to. >Class? Not as much as you probably think. Church-affiliation? Not as much as you think. How much precisely? What amount makes it so that, "generally", all factors that cause bullying are controllable factors by the bullee? >Everything I have been saying is about about learning your station. How are you not picking up on this? What if "your station" is simply to be a punching bag? That sounds like unavoidable bullying to me.

>>74267 >>74268 This has got to be intentional. Enjoy your night.

>>74265 Bingo! That's the most complete summary of the average modern lain poster I've ever read.

>>74265 Hi I'm a lain poster, while I find your take interesting I would describe my motivations as more derived from the fact that I now realize how I was missing out on being bullied as a kid; I try to ascribe my current problems partially to a lack of course correction in my school days and imagine bullying could have caused me to realize and address the roots of these problems earlier.

Why are you people always try to moralize some 'bad stuff'? People are mostly immortal tools, antisocial ones - especially. How is trying to top the race moral? How's morality moral, even? It just seems like y'all trying to cope with being weak, never really caring to question the potentially harmful or further weakening part of your thinking - the questioning itself.

>>74275 its slave morality, if bad things happened to them because they did something wrong and deserved it, then they can take back control and avoid the bad things in the future by being better. but if bad things happened to them without them having any control over it then it is unavoidable. so then people justify the bad things others do, to mentally push those bad things away from themselves and think that they won't happen to them or won't happen to them again. also in general the majority of mankind loves inverting and flipping everything around. they are endlessly amused by this.

The only solution would be to erradicate humans. fuarrrking waste of everything imo

>>74212 That seems like an oddly specific example

I didn't think this was a commonly held belief, but I guess that's why that World Peace sketch got made.

>>74272 Well then id put you among the few people I worry about said lainons takes influencing. Not that this is really relevant or that im assuming you are young but ive noticed a incredible uptake in "we need to bring bullying back" type posts which are half jokes but I can tell half sincere among the younger crowd. Its hard for me to give a take on what you are saying without knowing you and I was originally gonna dive down a million paths of assumptions hoping at least one would resonate but il try to keep it briefer (though im still kind of going to present some assumptions I obviously dont know are true for you) . For starters I and maybe many might not agree that what you think is wrong course of action in your life was actually wrong course of action and your life hasnt played out yet even to say. It may just be your way of doing things. When you are someone that due to how you were raised or your values or whatever behaves a little differently, all bullying does is create this intense fear and hatred of yourself that forces you (usually only in public) to try and hide. It doesnt suddenly make you think differently about how you do things because bullying is almost never gonna suddenly make you realize why something you are doing is wrong (often because it isnt to start with). All it does is make you decide "People dont like me when I behave in a way that is comfortable and natural to me". This rarely makes you more normal or less of a target because the ideal normal person doesnt worry about these things and id go so far as to say that is one of the more fundamentally "normal" things. In my experience, the less you worry one wrong misstep or reversion to yourself will ostracize you forever from those around you the more the people around you want to be around you. When you are bullied and decide the people bullying you are right you suddenly just have a mess of new more complicated problems that make you alienated from the world because there is this mentally constructed wall with huge associations and impact always weighing on your actions. And it even more omnipresent because its one you dont ever actually understand as the bricks that make it up were forced into place. Its like living your life under a self created dictatorship where you arent ever quite sure what thing you say might be the wrong thing, because you just remember all those times in the past you thought you were saying something fine and you were thrown around for it with no clear explanation as to why it was wrong. Which brings me to the next point which is maybe the more important one. If you are talking about genuinely bad behaviours or ways of life you have picked up you are sort of presenting a false dichotomy with you being bullied or not bullied, and on top of that attempting to solve them with bullying I dont think has ever worked (without again creating some equivalently large problem). If something is genuinely bad, negative, a detriment to yourself or others, it can be explained to you and you can come to understand why it is such. Everyone has bad behaviours they struggle with and no one has simply had them "all bullied out". Often there may even be services or resources available to help you work on it. To phrase it in your own terms what if instead of being bullied or not bullied someone you respected, looked up to, or trusted, was simply able to demonstrate whatever bad course you are on was not the right course. There is a third option. For a final bit of anecdotal evidence (although im sure its studied), I dont know anyone who was bullied for being fat as a kid who as a result developed a healthy relationship with food or their body image. Heres what I usually see - People who develop bulimia or anorexia due to their self worth being tied to weight or even what they ate that day itself ("You dont need to be eating that" is a common thing hurled at fat people) - People who become binge eaters as their brain is so preoccupied with dieting or trying not to eat that it ultimately is still constantly preoccupied with food - People who workout and then burn out on it because instead of an enjoyable healthy activity it turned into a fearful panic filled one that they must do or risk losing everything - People who wouldnt eat in public or would sneak food when no one was looking as eating became an inherently shameless thing - Total lack of enjoyment of food and constant remarks in cynical critical ways at every meal time. - Repeating the bullying cycle at other fat people because "they were bullied and got better" or "at least they know their fat and that it isnt good". None of these things are good behaviours or even normal behaviours, most of them actively drain those around them. Being with someone who constantly talks about how fat they are and diets is not enjoyable and no one except others in the same boat enjoy it. They may sometimes solve the problem of "being too fat" (which likely would have been solved or confronted at some point without bullying) but at the cost of not being able to thimk or interact with something as basic as food in a healthy way (which wouldnt have probablg happened had they not been bullied). For every "problem" bullying solves it creates much more insiduous harder to deal with ones. Losing weight is (fairly) clear and non abstract, but reframing the entire way in which you view something as basic as food and eating and redeveloping positive associations with it (often while still being overweight or dangerously underweight as the bullying didnt even work in that regard) is much more complicated. Among the few among few I know who are at their target weight and also have a healthy relationship with food, it was only after a reaction to the things I mentioned above that themselves were a reaction to bullying and ending up realizing their self worth is not tied to what they weigh that day or what they ate that day. Which ironically usually as a result, makes it easier to maintain the weight you want to be at. Rarely is someone suffering from one of the things mentioned above going to maintain a stable weight until they stop attacking themselves and siding with all the hurtful thoughts and sayings planted in their mind that they otherwise wouldnt have chosen to direct at themselves creating 10 issues to deal with where there was (at best) 1. Again this is semi anecdotal, so buy into it at your own risk. Although if you want you can certainly look into studies about the negative impact the sort of bullying I mentioned above has on someones actual health. Which is funny cause in a similar manner many are doing here in other wats, the bullying around someones weight is often cowardly defended as faux concern for their health. Which as I mentioned in the false dichotomy bit earlier, if you are ever concerned about someones actually bad life choices there is much more productive ways to go about helping them with that than bullying. Ways they will have to learn anyways to deal with things outside of what you are bullying them for and likely to deal with whatever awful behaviours develop as a result of your bullying. No matter how stunted you think you are in any aspect, I guarantee you no amount of bullying would have made you anything but more stunted. The only thing that can help that is genuine words of care, concern, and wisdom on the part of others and genuine reflection and honesty on your own part. Just something to end this finally, even if you werent bullied you probably can remember a time you were alienated, outcasted, or had some hurtful thing thrown your way for just being you. Thinking these moments were the only thing that saved you from any mumber of doomed fates creates a complex in itself that, to be honest, most people from the outside notice and not positively.

>>74340 Quite ignorant and egocentric of you to imply that your phenomenological experiences match the phenomenological experiences of others by assuming that people can be 'taught to understand' of their own subliminal with the help of (your) words - the shaky shadows of your own conception of their phenomenology cast back at them. It's simply a far less effective, higher brain function bullying.

>Are people bullied for a reason? Yes, but the "reason" is not always a good reason. It depends. Did someone behave in ways that are immoral, objectively wrong etc. ? Well, I don't care if they're bullied. But sometimes people are bullied for things that they can't control, or things that are harmless. There are cultures that have some very stupid rules. And so the problem is that the bullied person is in the wrong place, and needs to leave the community of retards behind. Imagine if you (as a 1st world person) went to a 3rd world tribe in Africa who eats foreigners for dinner. You shouldn't be there obviously.

>>74342 I said first and foremost that its likely whatever thing you think needs changing may not even need changing, as if it did, there would be clear reasons available to you. If your implying people cant be taught to understand the things hurting them and new ways of doing things I have no idea what you are talking about and why even respond to this thread. My words or your words certainly can and probably have taught people things. I have been taught things and ways in which I was going about things wrong or hurting myself. See the post the poster I was replying to was replying to as it probably applies to you. You are hyperfixated on one concept right now and as a result have left earth where people can and do all the time learn from others and help others and as a result have nothing to contribute or say to the discussion of aiding others growth or your own.

>>74193 They CLAMP our cords. They vaccinate. These are quasi sexual dominance and initiation rituals. Imagine bullying a literal neonate.

The father of secondary education in America Alexander Inglis said that one of the important purposes of schooling is that students with bad genes get isolated and bullied which makes them more likely to leave the gene pool. Schools are then a form of modern day eugenics and bullying is a feature.

I was bullied and in retrospect it made sense, was justified and in some ways made me a better person. That makes me feel like bullying is deserved many times, at least when it’s about something you could and should easily change. For me it was better to be bullied in school and change aspects of myself that would have caused more trouble later with employment. It may sound extreme but I just think it’s better to be bullied and get better while in school, than not be bullied and then be unemployable later because of certain traits and behaviors. Whenever I say this to people though they say I just rationalized my abuse. I disagree though, because I recognize times where abuse and bullying wasn’t justified for me and didn’t improve me at all. In general imo don’t bully because of race, origin, gender, sexual orientation etc. but bully when they are standoffish mean assholes, stink, talk weird, and have other annoying and disgusting traits that will bite them in the ass later on.

>>74641 >bully when they are standoffish mean assholes, stink, talk weird, and have other annoying and disgusting traits that will bite them in the ass later on. bullying is NEVER done because of these things, these are just ways to torment people by finding a weak point and breaking them down

>>74643 >Bullies bully people because of these weak points. >NO! Bullies only find weak points and then bully that. What did you mean by this?

There was many takeaways in that thread and the ones you are presenting were not even in the majority you just disregarded the rest as people just "saying stuff" which il have you know is what I did with people pointing out the things you said all the same. The norms in which you struggle with and the people bullying are not one in the same. The people bullying arent pinnacles of social norms that you need to learn lessons from especially not past a certain age. They are often just like you and they had this exact same thought and are inconfident, insecure, and frustrated with the way they acted now thay they know better. Most people are not smelling soykaf all around you, if they are it has everything to do with you not being able to provide anything beyond opportunities for them to try and "fix you", even your bullies. No one past a certain age cares about the weirdo if the weirdo is helpful, provides unique insight, good conversation, etc. (things you will never do if you are fixated on other people correcting your self perceived and misjudged bad ways). There is things that maybe make you an outcast in school but in the long term its the nature of thinking abot this very discussion in such a way that outcasts you for life. No one wants to deal with an adult baby.

>>74212 i really wish people would make this distinction. targeting people and having one victim causes immense psychological damage. getting a negative reaction every once in a while from people is collective judgement, and you can always extract yourself from the situation if you disagree with the room. i was stalked and harassed by this group of people for months and the amount of unnecessary dread i collected just being alive - that wasnt "learning" anything, and no matter how much i tried to communicate with them, they wouldnt stop. i still feel fear even when im just existing and not doing anything that could be considered asocial. there was no good faith in anything that was done.

>>74694 Nta but I think I get what he meant, bullying is usually not done to people who do thinks that hurt others (assholes get away with being assholes most of the time). Bullying is done the most to people who are harmless but vulenrable and naive/easy to exploit, and probably disabled.

Teenage years are the most anti-social Anti-social people occur in the population Bullying others was a way of casting out weak people with bad genes out of the group because resources were a lot more limited for all of human history

>>75058 How unfortunate then that bully victims tend to be future productive members of society who pay their taxes and respect the laws and not future (and present) delinquents. >>74997 It is a social activity made to unite a group or give importance to one of his member and used against whoever is the easiest target, generaly people with a weak capacity to defend themselves in a fight, in banter and in front of the authority.

>>74193 It has to do misplaced predatory instincts. Predators target those who they perceive as weak and will not fight back effectively. If a bully is punched out by the person he or she harasses, the bully may stop especially if it is at a young age. I support anti-bullying initiatives and cannot help but to admire the Columbine asskickers and the justiciar at Parkland. I wanted a school schmupping or stabbing to happen at the schools I was forced to attend. I hated every nigger that harassed me.

>>74193 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftvm8A2dTs0

It's good. It's a cruel feeling getting bullied, because there is seemingly no way to get out of it. But the day you grow to be an adult you realize everything happens for a reason.

>>75059 >How unfortunate then that bully victims tend to be future productive members of society who pay their taxes and respect the laws and not future (and present) delinquents. I'm very curious whence you get this information. Sounds like excellent evidence for the efficacy of bullying and I'd like to be able to refference if theres a study or something thanks

>>75097 The kids who shot up Columbine didn't even get bullied nobody knows for certain why they did it, one of the shooters had girlfriends and friends and was not disliked or shunned by his peers, they were just psychos as was the kid who shot up the Parkland highschool although people didn't like him at all probably for good reason. Both of those events have some false flag undertones as well.

>>74198 Intra-group "bullying" is not just pecking order, it can also just be a form of banter, which is a form of both team-building and testing people to be stronger and more clever. The sad thing is that if you were ever weird enough to get bullied you're also probably bad at telling when someone is bantering with you to include you in a group and when someone is a sociopath just trying to put you down. Obviously true bullying is extremely bad, usually the authorities' fault in a school setting, but I never saw too much of it. But I worry that bullying is going to become like "hazing", where fairly normal male-coded activities get pathologized and no one wants to distinguish between sending a group of newcomers on a challenging, low-risk activity and psycho soykaf like forcing them to stand on dry ice.

>>75154 That reason is often that people take advantage of you if there is no cost for them to do it. >>75183 The personal videos they made are so cringe you can feel the bullying they were suffering.

>>75185 >Intra-group "bullying" is not just pecking order, it can also just be a form of banter, Banter is not bullying. That's why you had to use scare quotes. The rest of your post is irrelevant because you associated two unrelated concepts and then tried to defend one by defending the other.

>>75185 > form of banter Can guarantee you're a total dickhead from this alone.

>>75206 lol, I can tell you're a total moron from this alone. friendly bullying is a thing. Maybe its a test idk. You can respond amusedly to it and be cool or you can respond defensively to it and out yourself as a weirdo. some of it is mean spirited of course but not all

>>75207 No, you're just a cocksucking homo who gets off on picking on people.

>>75207 talking soykaf with each other in friend group is playfighting preparing you for real fights. The alternative is you become a woke follower believing banning all mean people is the solution but irl has no moderation so they dont survive touching grass.

>>74230 >>75195 >>74227 I think these posts are correct, I also want to add that bullies, actual malicious bullies not the ones who only do it to fit in, are low IQ and have problems with theory of mind, some bullies grow out of it when they develop it. Some of the bullies from my high school never graduated and this belief got reinforced when I went to jail for 1 night and the people there were incredibly stupid. There are studies supporting this btw. I did minor bullying to fit in and only realized later how much of a snake I was. >>75207 >>75185 When that person "outs themselves as a weirdo" they usually become the punching bag of the friend group and that is definitely bullying because they don't respect him. People like that get excluded when they try to defend themselves. As a rule if there's no back and forth it can't be called banter.

>>75208 Gay people are one of the most bullied groups out there, calling someone a homo for being a bully is an oxymoron

>>75507 why did other groups not do it then? Nobody ever heard of jp bully gangs after the internment camps or native american's bullying you. wanna know real cause? Your media runs propaganda how they are justified to fuarrrk you up and glorifies it. Thats why

>>75509 black people arent bullying you cause you're white, they are bullying you because you hold racist values and beliefs and they can tell that you hold them. If you held the same beliefs about other races, they would probably do the same to you.

>>75511 you just repeat the same thing like a robot while ignoring the point made. it doesnt happen with other ethnicities. Its doesn't happen with black people in other nations. Its an american issue and the only obvious difference is your media and teachings.

Ive honestly had vastly better and more pleasant interactions&relations with blacks in general after becoming incredibly racist. Maybe there is something to them being able to tell how you think of them.

This might help the other Lainons. It's on the cusp of the practical and the theoretical, and written by a man who has been at different times the victim, the abuser, and the protector.

>>75513 >Its doesn't happen with black people in other nations. That is not true. The same happen in western Europe. I would argue that it happen in black countries as well but you understand why this is normal, so to say. The Arabo-Muslim people form groups too and if they bully, it tend to be people from other groups. Yes, racism isn't the exclusivity of one race. Incredible, right? >>75514 Bullies take the path of lowest resistance. If someone show vulnerability or weaknesses to the bullies, he become the target.

>>75506 IDK, this isn't the 80's anymore. At my local school there is a group of women who accuse others of being homophobes or transphobe so they have an excuse to bully them. No one dare say a word and they even have the protection of the school.

Young people bully each other for all kinds of reasons. I once saw a guy start crying because we all made fun of his massive jaw, huge muscles, and deep rumbly voice. He just heard it like 200 times a day for like 600 days and he broke down and started bawling. Anyhow when you're talking about authority figures and bullying. They don't give a soykaf, even the most bleedy heart carebear mom of an authority figure just wants it to stop (especially on their watch) and doesn't care about the social dynamics of people outside of her generation, they don't give a soykaf about your problems and when they run their yaps they don't usually even care about solutions or their viability. So maybe think about why you're bullying someone, think if there are other alternatives to what you're doing, reach into your shallow pool of teen-empathy and ask yourself if you should be doing it and why only spoiled old ladies and stupid fat old guys are engaging in that behavior beyond 30.... and maybe what you're doing still makes perfect sense maybe you can do better. Some people should be bullied. That's up to you at that point but don't ever think an authority figure more than 8 years your senior is going to give a soykaf about your social issues or provide resolution.

Someone being bullied doesn't mean there is something they are doing wrong. They usually didn't invite the bully to be in their life so the bully is imposing an authoritarian rule over others.

>>75553 Are you seriously advising bully to think about it? They do it because they can and yes, of course they could not do it. But they don't want to. It's not the solution they found to a problem, they want to do it. On purpose. Yeah, I got the "they will eventually get tired of it" treatment from all the teachers and my parents. It told me a lesson on authority that I am not going to forget. I want to believe there are people who care about doing the right thing and I know the world have been designed to break them. The school guardian who want to stop bullying have to face the real possibility that he will find himself fired or worse, so someone who do not have heroic moral values will have to face an administrative monster if they want to help you, which mean they won't.

>some people need to be bullied >people benefit from bullying I was aware that the nazis had co-opted this site's narrative, are the sociopaths homogenous with that group or did you drift in afterwards?

>>75582 Objectively works on some fatties. Of course going by your comment you are not the type to do that and rather would fight the idea.

>>75582 it can be good in the long run, if someone does something weird or unlikable and people point it out and pick on them for it they'll stop doing it

>>75584 >>75583 More likely they develop cripplingly low levels of self-esteem and start to believe themselves incapable of change. I benefitted a lot more from one person just telling me "stop acting weird", in a friendly way, than years of bullying in school.

>>75585 When a kid falls down it doesnt start crying immediately, its when it sees mom panicking that it gets scared and starts crying. If the mom doesnt panic you get a kid that wont cry and happily continue. Similarly i dont think the bullies are the main issue. The issue are all the surrounding people giving wrong ideas how to handle the bullying.

>>75586 Lain, those two situations are entirely different. Do you think a kid would cry if you punched it in the face and laughed? Because that's what a lot of bullying is.

>>75587 its not supposed to be perfectly identical... it showcases that humans reaction is modified by surrounding people. And yes not every responds to a punch with crying. More often the people start fighting back and some might straight up beat you into hospital.

>>75588 Yeah let me know when you sucker punch a kid and he sends you to a hospital. That would be literally incredible.

>>75590 let me know when you learn to read and comprehend

>>75591 Let us all know when you learn to capitalise and punctuate, NERD!

>>75591 man shut the fuarrrk up with your quantum pain bullshit, if a child falls on a playground but the mother isn't there to see it, will it cry?

>>75585 Yeah this. Bullying ultimately just results in most people shutting down and giving up. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise. If your goal is to get them to shut down and give up, fine, but at least admit that rather than trying to pretend it's all about lifting the person up (by putting them down). >>75586 I don't even know what you are trying to say with this. >When a kid falls down it doesnt start crying immediately This isn't true, many kids will cry even if their mother isn't there. >If the mom doesnt panic you get a kid that wont cry and happily continue. No. >Similarly i dont think the bullies are the main issue. The issue are all the surrounding people giving wrong ideas how to handle the bullying. Sure. The best ways to deal with a bully, as it is in nature, are as follows: -to harm them to the point where they run away -if that is not possible, to kill them or if neither are possible -to escape and never be in the same area as them. What do you think is the best option

>>75574 Hi it's me that you responded to. Maybe. If OP has any sort of decency. Sometimes I bullied people just having fun and would be sort of surprised that the other person wasn't. So yeah maybe if he sat down and thought about what he's doing he would stop. As for his posts about needing to punish some sort of outgroup or negative influence to the group or whatever the fuarrrk I have to ask what kind of situation he's in where he feels the need. If I show up at a scene and some dude smells like he soykafs his pants, I don't try to fix the scene, I ask myself what kind of losers I'm hanging out with where guys soykaf their pants. From my experience interacting with trolls; Guys like OP are like one step above the most irredeemable autists while telling themselves they're somehow different than everyone else at the ponycon. Which of course they'll never admit to here but I somehow never feel the need to purify my social group because someone is soykafting their pants. >>74193 >>74193 >>74193 So OP what kind of degenerate losers do you hang out with where you have to purify pants-soykafters out of your social group?

>>74212 >I don't want to carry the weight of explaining some random dude I barely know that he shouldn't be making futanari jokes in a job meeting. Kek, he sounds based and you sound uptight like you have a stick up your ass

>>75856 Right. The futa interview guy is probably fun and just needs some bros to show him the way.

I wasn't bullied, as in targeted, but I was made fun of whenever I did certain things. Like a social faux pas and alike. Never went far pass comment for the most part. I ended up either making friends with most of those kids anyway. It's a two edged sword because now, I'm hyper aware of my actions and think about them before I do them and I don't do any of those faux pas, but I also think about my actions to the point where it hinders social interaction. I'm not a sperg or anything, it just takes me longer to respond because I'm trying to decide whether or not to express something and how to express it. To the point where I don't say anything at all because I don't think my thoughts are that important. (Although I made an effort to get better at this after I realized it) I wouldn't say bullying is a good thing as it usually just has people shutdown instead of actually change their behaviors. They either chalk up the bulllying as "Oh they're just stupid jerks!" and ignore it or stop pursuing things that make them happy, not really understanding what makes them a social pariah for it. For some people they do change after, but I have a feeling these people were gonna be introspective sooner or later so it's not that helpful to FORCE them to change early on. Tough love can work but it's got to be a balancing act or else you just leave resentment, you know? And let's be real here, no one bullies because they want to help the other person. No one. That's NEVER what it's about. Everyone bullies and picks on others because they find it funny. There's a humor in mockery. That's why lolcow communities are the way they are. Forget chris chan for a sec, who's gonna "help" someone like LowTierGod or DSP? No one does. You just laugh at the KILL YOURSELF NOW meme, call him chicken legs and bad at video games and that's it. Hell, making fun of people being funny is why most people were content saying projared cheated on his wife and not looking into it further. It's also important to note that most helpful advice given to these videos is ignored, but remember chris chan again for a second. When that something awful thread was made about him, what was the first thing the goons did? Make fun of him. Not to say their aren't cases of making fun of people turning into a care for them, something like BillyMC's relationship to Retsupurae, but I wouldn't say that's the case for the most part. Also, I'm using internet personality examples here because they're easier for us all to see compared to the subjective example of "This is how it was in my school" which could be affected by dozens of factors. TL;DR Bullying in most cases isn't useful, it's just for lols.

I remember watch an Edd Dutton video and he was saying bullying victims are people who often have flaws, are not as healthy and may be a burden in a darwinian situation so they are bullied to get rid of them.

Bullying (both physical and mental), shaming and ostracizing is just a form of social activity normalization. Bullying happens to those on the "outliers" of physical and mental characteristics, the extremes. Bullies are usually narcissists or psychopaths that use themselves as standard of measurement of what a human ought to be. If you're dumb or smart, wealthy or poor, tall or short, you will be bullied regardless. There is no objective standards of value but merely a subjective social one. Narcissists and psychopaths do this for myriad of reasons, but functionality is still the same, to bring those "extremes" into the middle of the group and to uphold the status quo. Psychopaths do this to gain power over the group (as in the group has power through the numbers, controlling what the group thinks or does is powerful because steering them in certain direction will bring resources and power) while narcissists do this to soothe themselves since they're effectively physiologically stunted into being social solipsists (thinking that anyone other than them is a zombie, sheep, dumb or unworthy) which makes them fearful of others in such a way that anyone different than them makes them fearful. Bullying is exhibited more in multicultural multiethnic societies because of myriad of differences while socially homogenous societies have lower levels of bullying. Good example of this is whenever a transfer kid enters a new classroom. Good example of this is a white kid in majority black school or vice reversa. Good example of this is atheist child in majority christian school. All good examples of where bullying might occur due to cultural and ethnic differences. Mind you, this is purely my personal opinionated sociological/psychological/scientific outlook on bullying and doesn't hold weight so don't give me "ummm source?"

Bullying to me just seems like a way to reinforce social norms, but my experience with it seems very disjointed. As someone who grew up in a middle class background, created by two parents who came from lower economic statuses, I was always told there was nothing wrong with standing up to anyone who tries to intimidate me. However, as I have entered into adulthood, I always had a very precarious environment at home. I'm having trouble with recalling memories from my childhood as there seems to be an empty gulf of nothingness, where it seems like I never even existed in the first place. That was sort of dispelled when I had a conversation with a member of my family, that reminded me of the abuse that I had go through at home by my parents. Earliest memory of abuse I guess, was when I was violently shoved by dad, and I either ran away or fled home to not face any more possible physical assault. This has left very odd sense of "disconnection" from what was said versus what was actually practiced, thus leaving me with a myriad of complex emotional/psychological problems. Child protective services did at one point arrive at my home, but I don't exactly clearly remember the reason why either. These memories have left a very bad impression of what my childhood was, and if the chance of having children ever does present itself, I'll have to adopt a more versatile strategy of teaching how to stand up to a bully, but having to deal with all of these very violent memories has left me quite exhausted and I'd be ok with dying at this point.