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man, i think i know how hitler felt when there weren't any good wars around. us proles weren't meant to live like this; for almost all of human history, the most honorable life one of lowly status could lead was that of a warrior, and the most honorable death was in battle. and that whole state of affairs came to be because its the NATURAL ORDER OF THINGS! do you think in ancient rome you had as many people offing themselves as we do today? all this bullshit about standards of living and human rights, about how we have it better than the peoples of all of human history, and yet who killed themselves in rome? the nobles! liberal consumerist society was an aristocratic invention meant to rob us of our birthright to war, only possible by turning us into soulless, braindead, lethargic and impulsive CATTLE! and in doing so, after millenia of class struggle, the aristocracy has finally wrestled the joy of conquest that RIGHTFULLY BELONGS TO US from our hands, and now they leech it off the people to whom it belongs. we were having the times of our fuarrrking lives, sacking enemy cities, sacking roman cities, dying; all stuff men can't live without. and today, you rot in a cubicle until youre a vegetable, then you rot in a hospital bed until you're a corpse! it's no damn wonder people yearn for a third world war so badly, and yet nuclear weapons and bourgeois internationalism make it virtually impossible. pitiful. i can only hope xi jinping is a proletarian not only in name, and that he'll save us from this hellish monotony with a second pearl harbour. pic related.

>man, i think i know how hitler felt when there weren't any good wars around. No you have literally no idea. Hilter felt like someone with PTSD trying to reintegrate into society. As someone who deployed twice and works a boring tech job this might be one of the most misguided posts I've seen in some time. Go ahead kid. Sign up. Get your war. See what happens, be sure to make note of the times where you fantasize about being right where you are now. Seemingly a century ago, another world, another life, having time to soykafpost on the internet. People were definitely suicidal in the military. I spent most of my time functionally so. I welcomed the sweet release of death and was ready and slightly hoping to go out in a blaze of glory for no other reason than to not have to wake up in the morning. I wasn't going to just kill myself but when things were dangerous I always hoped it would come. I stopped multiple people from offing themselves during my time in. At one point I teased someone to the point they attempted to check out a pistol and they were stopped at the armory. The event went out over the radio and I was so ok with the idea of his success I attempted to bait him into a second attempt just so I could enjoy the look of defeat on his face when he saw I didn't care. I would have had jokes right up until the moment the bullet went into my skull. The reason people with seemingly cushy office jobs end up killing themselves is because they get put under pressure and they can't make it go away. It engages their flight or fight response and it never ever turns off because they can't defeat their manager, they can't run away from their poorly defined Jira stories or defend themself from foolish corporate policies. The fight of flight response is supposed to be a temporary state ending in safety, victory, or death the human mind and body isn't intended to drag on like that in stretches for months at a time. Personally these sorts of stresses from work have triggered my military PTSD some 20 years later to the point I've gone on temporary disability so I could have a few months to go back to baseline. Anyhow keep pretending you're some sort of warrior. It's cool.

>See what happens Reading my own post this reminds me. Here is a list of my three favorite war movies: https://archive.org/details/come-and-see-english-subtitles https://archive.org/details/All.Quiet.on.the.Western.Front.1930_201605 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418763/ Take an afternoon and watch them. Know that no other movies I've ever watched have managed to accurately convey the mental state of a man at war or in the military.

>>72804 >you have no idea what hitler felt like, i know exactly what hitler felt like familamilamistan while i appreciate your jaded and sad traumatized attitude and would find it interesting to hear your takes in other contexts, but Hitler was a very special man, and I dont see why you should have more insight into him than i.e. someone who grew up in 2000's vienna. Being in the US military today or whenever you were in is a lot different than in hitlers youth, letalone in the German Army in world war one (and there's more to him than that). Different people came out of this war differently, saw and felt it differently, I hope you're not basing your whole impression of what it was like on All Quiet. Ever read for instance, Storm of Steel ? Different people came out of that very differently. You have no idea what Hitler felt like.

>>72811 I dont want to imply op is right, I dont think he is. But neither are you.

>>72768 Killing isn’t honourable. Dying isn’t honourable. Stop falling for fascist bullshit. If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace Behind the wagon that we flung him in, And watch the white eyes writhing in his face, His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin; If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,— My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children ardent for some desperate glory, The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.

>>72815 >The old Lie says the probable homosexual >>72768 >today, you rot in a cubicle until youre a vegetable, then you rot in a hospital bed until you're a corpse! thats your choice, you aren't forced to take either of those options. why are you framing this in proles vs aristocrats terms op, thats silly. not that lowbourne persons have no glory, but much of it comes from high class persons. Read some history for heaven's sake, who was Alexander or Cinncinatus or Caesar or Charlemange or Nelson or Washington or Patton or any of these people ? Even in recent wars I feel we decorate the occasional Audie Murphy and then much more quickly let him slip the public memory.

well if it's so great join the military or foreign legion or some soykaf, get in a combative role granting you're even capable of entering such a role (doubtful) and die in a foxhole shaking and quivering with fright

There's a very good french movie (and novel) about this exact question: Capitaine Conan.

>>72768 >i think i know how hitler felt >the most honorable life one of lowly status could lead was that of a warrior, and the most honorable death was in battle. Gutten tag herr Hitler. Here is your gas mask, it have been mass produced to meet the production quota and you will probably loose a part of your lungs and your vision if there is a gas attack. Please wait under the rain of shells so you can start waiting in the mud like usual. It may have been true at the early days of the Roman republic or if you were a knight, but those are exeptions. If you like war so much go in Ukraine with whichever side pay more. >>72815 It is not possible to have everyone to respect everyone else's boundaries, so fights will happen and it will escalate to the highest level on a regular basis. If you are a pacifist who prefer any level of submission to violence, then submit to every person who want to take advantage of you, but don't be an hypocrite and don't say that while you stand in the back of people who are ready to kill to protect you. Dying is unavoidable. Dying pointlessly isn't. I think it's important for a man to live a good life and to die a good death.

>>72820 have fun hating yourself forever boykisser >>72811 >Hitler was a very special man bet your mommy tells you that too don't she? blowing your brains out in a bunker to hide from the consequences of your actions sure sounds honorable to me!

>>72830 >sure sounds honorable to me did I say anything about honor ? I said he was very special. Which other of the millions of world war one veterans of germany or any country acheived his fame and influence? will be remembered as long as he ? You don't need to like him to admit he was one of the largest figures of the XXth century. >>72829 >you will probably your vision if there is a gas attack not sure if you are refferencing this but wasn't he temporarily blinded after a gas attack ?

>>72832 >did I say anything about honor ? I said he was very special. Which other of the millions of world war one veterans of germany or any country acheived his fame and influence? will be remembered as long as he ? You don't need to like him to admit he was one of the largest figures of the XXth century. None of that contradicts what I said about his PTSD. So this isn’t what you meant by special.

>>72833 (I assume you're 72804) The relevance is that he is very different than the average soldier in a war that is very different than what you or anyone here has experienced. You sound like an american, so whatever war you might have been involved with was some distant imperial enforcement campaign irrelevant to most people back home, not a massive fight on your doorstep and home soil that ends in capitulation. Even the largest recent wars you might have participated in are small and irrelevant compared to WWI for Germany. Desert Storm had fewer than 2 million people in it, equivalent to one of the larger operations in WWI but not even the largest, and I wager that's before your time. Even supposing Hitler had 'PTSD' as you assert with no argument but the dim resemblence of your life to his, his experience 'reintegrating' into society would have been hillariously different than whatever you and your comrades might have seen. More than 2 million Germans died in WWI, more than 4 million were wounded in action, this in a country of only about 65 million. Even if every american in the gulf war was killed it would have been about .2% of the american population, Germany lost over 3%. The huge majority of the young male population directly participated, and every home in the entire country was effected in a way that the US has only dimly glimpsed in the last 150 years. The situation is extremely different. Forgive me if you're a world war two veteran for thats dimly possible. Even then I think the situation is rather different, but at least it begins to share a resemblance.

>>72768 imagine thinking there is honor in death

>>72829 If your first resort to someone shouting in your face is to attack them, you've failed. War is inherently violent and dehumanizing and should be avoided whenever reasonably possible. I know there's times where it can be justified (the nazis really were that bad), but knowing just how grave it is you should never want anyone to experience it (as can be attested by the soldiers who do fight, like >>72804). Fascists love death and cruelty, that's why they love promoting the ass-backwards idea of "dying nobly". And misguided youth on the internet like OP get brainwashed into thinking this bullshit without having put a single foot in a combat zone. >>72836 It's a common story the weak tell themselves to justify their ineptitude, their lack of moral will, and to feel special about themselves. To "die for something". It's just suicide disguised as a noble cause. If it truly was noble, they wouldn't need to brainwash people into killing/getting killed would they? It's harder but better to reaffirm the inherent value of all human life in all its forms. It's better to have lived a good life than to have died a "good death". Living to die isn't living.

The fact that this soycaf of an OP got any unsaged responses dissapoints me. The guy is literally 14 physically or emotionally or having a mental breakdown. In both cases engaging this as a serious discussion is a disservice to him and everyone else. That's all I have to say on the subject.

>>72804 >>72807 i was talking about hitler *before* he went to war, not after. he talks about it in his book. he didn't regret going to war one bit... really fascinating man, he was. thank you for sharing your experiences. what you've described sounds very appealing to me, as i am very dumb and cannot comprehend the true weight of theoretical (or even real and lived) scenarios. thanks also for the movie recs, i'll watch them later. >>72811 yeah, hitler LOVED war, dude was ecstatic to see soykaf go down. at least thats what he wrote. >>72815 >4/5 of his post is copypasta >>72820 my post is from a proletarian standpoint, since i myself am a lowly prole. we eat the crumbs of honor off our masters' tables like dogs, only now the crumbs are all from processed junk. >>72823 thank you for your kind words. i'm happy to know this site has people with intact empathy >>72837 >It's a common story the weak tell themselves to justify their ineptitude, their lack of moral will, and to feel special about themselves. To "die for something". It's just suicide disguised as a noble cause. If it truly was noble, they wouldn't need to brainwash people into killing/getting killed would they? > >It's harder but better to reaffirm the inherent value of all human life in all its forms. It's better to have lived a good life than to have died a "good death". Living to die isn't living. i've thought this too. dying for a cause is the ultimate fantasy for lazy romantics. its a 2 for 1 deal. i think you can divide western morality into 2 catagories: liberal suffering based morality (with more emphasis placed on pitiful people), and conservative struggle based morality (with more emphasis placed on admirable people). since suicide is an indicator of insurmountable suffering, its given this sort of sacred status in suffering based morality. i think dying for a cause, at least for the weaker people you had in mind, is a way of fitting the idealization of suicide into struggle based morality, making it both good/noble and pitiful at the same time. it's like cheating. >>72841 i'm 14 mentally. you didn't mention mental age because it would be rude to and you are nice. saging my own thread, because you asked, and you are my friend.

>>72832 >not sure if you are refferencing this but wasn't he temporarily blinded after a gas attack ? I just wanted to explain how WWI wasn't a good instance of elevating people. It was a machine war, where machines kill people, machines mow people, machines fart and make your lungs melts and machines kill you from 50km away. And you don't even see an enemy. >>72837 If you don't understand the ladder of violence, then you are lost. Small violence that is isn't answered with small violence only create a place for bigger violence. Perhaps the world should be different, perhaps it would be a better place then, but it is not. Show the bully that you tolerate him and he will bully you harder. Show the bandit that there will be no consequences if he steal from you and he will steal more. Show the rapist that he have nothing to be afraid about and you become a prey. We live in this world, not in another one and so we all need to be violent when needed. >War is inherently violent and dehumanizing and should be avoided whenever reasonably possible The only problem with war is that the people who decide to create them aren't the ones on the front line. If you can gain from an action and you are not the ones to suffer from it, then it take a reason to not be an individualist to not do it. Bush with the Iraq war is a prime example. >Fascists love death and cruelty, And communists love starvation and gulags, ancaps recreational nukes and flying cars and anarchists drugs. Can we be serious now? >that's why they love promoting the ass-backwards idea of "dying nobly" A medieval idea, not one made by a 100 year old ideology. You would be glad to learn that nationalism (and the conscription that come with it) is a product of the French revolution and the age of enlightenment. >If you believe in something bigger than yourself and self sacrifice, then you are weak, inept and lack moral will I really want to hear the explanation for that one.

>>72859 >don't even see an enemy. you have no idea what you're talking about. You should consider reading some accounts of wwi #trenchlyf, they certainly saw their enemy, sometimes talked and traded. Distances weren't that significant if you were actually on the front, perhaps for artillerymen its different, but then its been different for them for a long time. WWII strategic bombing was big and perhaps as you describe, but the people who thought it would obviate the need for infantry turned out to be wrong, and we still had huge amounts of relatively close unarmoured fighting. whudathunk.

>>>72859 The ladder of violence is a bullshit excuse. When you increase violence to "deter crime", you just get more violent crime instead. Violence does not solve the problem, because it is the problem. War leaves everyone worse off. In the words of Augustine “Right is right even if no one is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” If you're making excuses to do something wrong because others are doing it, then you're missing your moral backbone. Excuses will remain excuses. The fact that most or all wars have been fought for material benefit to the few at the expense of the many is all the more reason to avoid it. Gaining at another's expense is evil. The fascist stuff is serious, it's the nature of the ideology: It glorifies war and death. It shouldn't be controversial to state obvious truths like that. I never said that fascists invented hyper-nationalism, but I am pointing to the way they use it to justify obscene crimes against humanity. They promote death and cruelty because their ideology is one of eternal struggle and violence, their morality is getting the upper hand through underhanded means. They are inherent immoral. That's not news, that's been an obvious fact since day 0. If you feel the need to defend that crap, then I have to wonder why? It neurosuggests unsavory sympathies. You lack moral will if you're willing to rationalize evil actions behind a facade of nobility. Laying down your life for someone else is one thing, but taking the lives of others is another. If you need to brainwash people into self-sacrifice, it's just state-sponsored suicide. If you care to discuss this honestly you're welcome to.

>>72859 The words of some guy, better summary than I could make: “War as a moral metaphor is limited, limiting, and dangerous. By reducing the choices of action to “a war against” whatever-it-is, you divide the world into Me or Us (good) and Them or It (bad) and reduce the ethical complexity and moral richness of our life to Yes/No, On/Off. This is puerile, misleading, and degrading. In stories, it evades any solution but violence and offers the reader mere infantile reassurance. All too often the heroes of such fantasies behave exactly as the villains do, acting with mindless violence, but the hero is on the “right” side and therefore will win. Right makes might.”

>>72869 this comment is about storytelling more than it is about war, in fact its not really about war at all.

>>72887 You're really missing the big picture if you think that quote is only about storytelling. Stories are how we understand and relate to the world, and why our understanding of it has become so warped by the wire.