bullying, loser mindset, slave morality

I have never been popular. Mostly due to to a lack of social skills. I got bullied since kindergarden, the only thing I had was being vety talented with computers and machinery. Two years before graduation I had a "glow up": workout, self-reflection, paying attention to my clothes, training social skills. I shed the loserdom and now am somewhat popular in uni. However, my mindset is still fuarrrked. I have "can't believe that's me" moments every party. I get a invite and wonder why they'd invite me. I dated a girl, and towards the end of the date we looked into each others eyes, the thought "she's so pretty. Too pretty for me" came up. How do I get rivd of this loser mindset? Any lainons went through something simular? How to deal with the trauma of being at the bottom of the hirachy through my childhood and teen years? Niezsche says to embrace master morality. Jung says heal the inner child. Modernity says do therapy. So far nothing has worked.

>>69471 Well, let's just invert it. You're not a loser with an inferiority complex, you're a grandiose self centered narcissistic soykafhead who thinks he's better than everyone else. When she clearly accepts you, but you refuse to believe in what is clearly true, could it be rather than fear of being wrong, disappointed, harmed, and a desire to self sabotage, that thought is actually coming from the part of you that thinks "I'm better than, I know better than you, and I know what you need, see, and want, better than you do. You're a moron and I know waht's right for you better than you ever will, therefore, you are too good for me and you need to go somewhere else you stupid broad. What the fuarrrk is wrong with you? Dumb bitch. Don't you see how inferior I am? If you're wanting me, what's wrong with you? How stupid do you have to be? You're fuarrrked up, an idiot. So I'm going to step in and save you from yourself. You need to be with someone else, you're too good for me, go away. You're welcome DUMBASS. I'm a great guy, they just can't tell. Lucky I'm around to set em straight, think what would ahppen without me and my virtuous acts."

I like to do analogy of self-esteem and self confidence with confidence to other things and people. Are you confident in your car turning on? Yea because it always has in the past Are you confident that if you ask your best friend for 20$ he would give you? Yea, because he has proven himself to you. Are you confident in your specific skillset? Yea because you have proven to yourself time and time again that you are good at that specific thing. Self-esteem is confidence in yourself, as a whole. Which seems a bit absurd but that basically means that every difficulty you come across you will overcome. You have low self esteem because of your trauma, but your wounds will heal and you will get aclimated. Just put yourself out there and give your best. Children are ruthless to autistic people, but adults are more forgiving.

combat sports, get beat up until you start beating people up.

I was also bullied as a kid, because I was the 'smart' kid. At the time, this made me very antisocial and even a little arrogant, my line of thought at the time was that these people sucked and therefore I wouldn't want to hang out with or be friends with them anyway. I didn't end up in your shoes because I took it the opposite way as a child. Probably won't help you, but well.. maybe try to focus on your qualities? Do you really think that your bullies are in any way better than you are? And if you do, then why? There might be 'better' (smarter, better looking, etc.) people out there, but imo you at least shouldn't put yourself below your bullies. Bullying is very often childish and stupid.. and is often out of jealousity.

>>69478 That's what I thought as well, but so far nothing has changed and it's been years. That's despite me trying to process the trauma whenever it comes up. Maybe it just needs more time? >>69486 Didn't help, I regularly pretzel up people who don't use my height against me in judo. It's not feeling unsafe or weak, it's feeling like a loser. Like everyone's above me in status, always.

>>69471 For whatever it's worth Lain, I'm in a similar position but a much deeper pit and alienation. I can't envision myself in your situation at all, and I'm likely older than you. I didn't experience the bottom of the hierarchy directly though, I was split in two and felt like it, but could live in both worlds and perspectives. The core malformation and damage that allows that double think is the issue for me. At this point though the idea of a me is so fundamentally disgusting and unbearable that it keeps me separated. I go to do something and then awareness hits me midway, I imagine interacting with me and can't think of a more broken and disgusting creature. Totally unsalvageable. So I have to get rid of awareness of selectivel;y diminish empathy so I'm not experiencing me through my idea of their perspective. Anyway, good luck.

>>69471 This requires a help from a good friend or a therapist. You would need to go into your childhood and see how the environment you grew up with molded this feeling that seeps to the core. You're not weird, there are plenty of people whose real life situation is not really connected to their self worth. No matter how much they achieve, it's never enough for them or for their parents that psychologically enslave their children. The only real fool proof way is to find worth within yourself. Unconditional love towards yourself is equated to narcissistic personality disorder and heavily discouraged by society because it's beneficial to the Socuety as a whole, but it's really the only way. You have to love yourself before you can truly love someone or something else, otherwise it's an obsession or submission. As for how you do it... You attack it from several directions. Took a long time till I got it through my thick skull by 24 after a few really close encounters with the darkest sides of existence and mortality. I can tell my personal story if you're interested, but I don't think it's universal. Though maybe you can gleam some insight. Call me up if you feel like it. Actually one of the ways I found incidentally was to learn other people's unfiltered life stories. It's really revealing in the way that you see that human condition is inherently weird, it's just that we all experience it that we don't question it.

I know this feel. You're currently in an environment where your traits are no longer considered negative, eventually you'll get used to not being a loser anymore, that will come with time/life experience, you'll convince yourself that you've changed. Its worth noting that the social environment you're in right now is artificial -a bunch of high-ish intelligence young people with similar, niche interests - all together in one place with plenty of social opportunities. Things will change again when your courses finish. Try to preserve the connections you make at university, maybe move in or apply for jobs together. ...lest you return to the old ways. I ended up moving back home for a few years after my course and fell out of touch with nearly everyone. It destroyed a lot of the confidence I'd built up in the preceding years. If you can, try to avoid my mistakes.

>>69513 How old r u lain? t. Same problem here, just less severe.

>>69513 >Maybe it just needs more time? Not only that, but you need to get out of comfort zone. With plan and program to succeed though, but you need to achieve your potential. Then you will have self-esteem unrivaled by anything or anyone.

>>69519 I would like to hear your story, anon.

You're living a lie. Everything you've done is for the sake of gaining others approval.

>>69574 I guess I'll tell it then. I'll try to stay balanced and not be too harsh on myself while not giving myself praises as much as possible. I went to school one year early and because of that I had a chip on my shoulder in trying to appear older and more mature. My parents's friends all had daughters that were older than me so I grew up in that sort of environment and with my much older relatives. Luckily my parents sent me to martial arts school for a few years and I had a good friend in middle school (he's my best and only male friend still). I was quite social and spent a lot of time playing outside (again with the older crowd usually and with a lot of girls) but by 13 I turned into an uber nerd. I wasn't bullied by the guys though for some reason why my best friend did, maybe something to do with me being younger or having communication skills. I was bullied by girls though up untill high school. One girl in particular would constantly try to get intimate just to laugh in my face about my insecurities. Anyhow, by high school I suddenly realised I wanted a girlfriend and so... It's a long story, TLDR is that I got a gf for my last year but then moved to a different city to study and so after 6 months we split. After that I lived in the dorm for 1.5 years with different guys and them moved to a flat. I still tried to be sociable and tried some clubs eventually settling for fencing (two girls in the club convinced me to join) Somehow like that I got to my 3rd year of undergrad. I wasn't great at my academics but I managed for the most part even though I skipped a lot of lectures. But then I got sick in October and... Didn't come back for 2 months. Looking back I skipped a lot of classes since high school. We once visited a museum where I lost consciousness and broke a glass wall with my head. Miraculously I didn't even get a scratch. Every day since then is a blessing of course, but it might have been one of those head injuries that change your character. Or maybe I just had to grapple with mortality (alongside that a lot of my relatives died off during my childhood and at the start of my second year of undergrad my uncle died due to alcoholism from a heart attack while his drinking buddies robbed the house and then a month later a very popular girl in our group died in a car crash) and that woke me up a little. Anyhow this was much more serious. I just layed there alone for two months in my flat in my bed watching anime for 2 months going out once every two weeks for supplies for no discernible reason while lying to my parents. At first I just was sick, then I was skipping and then it was too embarrassing to come back. Of course it was actually clinical depression, or, to be more precise, depressive fase of my burgeoning bipolar disorder. I couldn't recover my exams this time and so I had to take an academic leave due to health issues (osteochondritis specifically) I remember crying because I was simultaneously a failure but also finally free from the torment of trying to reach my parent's expectations but not being able to. >>> To be continued when I get more free time.

>>69513 >it's feeling like a loser. Like everyone's above me in status, always. I have this too and is very hard to get rid off. I guess the issue is that when you are young, the experience you have hit you much strongly then when you are old and it's way, way harder to get rid of them. What helped me though is realizing that people really suck as much as you do. Not really in a negative way, but everyone has holes in their abilities and makes mistakes. Like people around you are people. Not some angels from other dimensions. They still go to toilet everyday and have thousands of ways they feel insecure about themselves.

Therapists would attribute that to some sort of variant of the impostor syndrome or something along those lines. I'll tell you your self-doubt is a two way street and the mirror you use for self-reflection probably isn't tuned right. You're living a lie. You internalize those faults the way introverts do, and probably don't realize the damage you're dealing yourself as you disintegrate into this shallow expression of a sociable nerd (and knowing geeks, your learned amicability is a paper-thin facade everyone cuts through) which only accentuates the spiral of self-doubt and hatred. You're forcing yourself into psychologically uncomfortable and stressful situations with no relief, ones that directly challenge your intrinsic self-identity, as you've left all ideas of sincerity behind. Your soul can only scream from inside. So you go and hate yourself since the alternative is hating everyone and everything else.

>>69584 After that and a few months of self reflection I re-enrolled with conviction that this time I do it for myself and I'll do it my way whether it pleases my parents or not. Simultaneously I got into the fencing club activities mostly because I was very into the community and one of the girls that invited me originally. Back then I thought I was completely out of her league but since then we both got held back (I helped her pass the chemistry exam but then she left anyway and focused on the club before switching to another subject) there seemed to be more chemistry between us. We began to chat a lot on messengers without telling anyone and behaving normally IRL. Then it kinda went along and we started to be a bit more chummy and people began to talk. I was head over heels by that point for the second time in my life (there were some other girls, I would just message people I from the uni or in some local anime groups out of nowhere sometimes and once I met a school girl when her class was visiting our uni and I had nothing better to do so I walked with them and saw some sections of the uni I never saw before. After that she wanted to ask me some questions so we exchanged contacts. Turned out she was from a rich family and so even though she was interested for some time at some point her friend came back from abroad and told her that she can get something better. Was a bit painful. There was also a doughter of a prominent academic. She really hated local nature and wanted to see the grand canyon and was very explicit in her chats (she out of nowhere asked me what kind of porn I watch and talked about masturbation). Alas, she was taller than me so after meeting in person she lost interest but since I was the first person to ask her out she went along with it for a few more dates. She then gushed about the guy she was into but couldn't ask out and that was that. That also stung. There were others too but nothing serious. Anyway, this was it I was seriously in love and happy that I got a chance because I thought I lost it since I didn't visit the club since I stopped coming to focus on my studies before going radio silent a year ago. She suddenly became much less interested and more aggressive but I didn't mind and determined that I stated my intentions and am going to go as far as I can so I would not have regrets like I did before. Didn't work out. Turns out the other members of the club decided we are a cute couple and started meddling to put us together which infuriated both of us but especially her. Then she met someone else who she's with rigt now (I think they're married but I'm not sure, we don't talk much theese days). We had a big club party where she found out about whe in particular was scheming to put us together after he spilled the beans while drunk and after that she was rather cold for a couple of meetings until I once wrote to her "what's up?" One day and she answered that she's with her boyfriend. I asked why was she stringinge along for a month or so and she answered that she is a bitch and that it was out of pity and frustration. I said that I'm glad that she is happy with her loved one and that although I'm hurt, I'll deal with it. Then I had exams to worry about so I did that. Then I visited the uni 7 times during the semester. I passed all but one exam but then it was ok for some reason, can't remember why. Somehow I lied, cheated and powered through with only one exam our of 5 not passed and arranged to retake it next year That and the previous exam I didn't pass would come to bite me in the ass later but I was free after all that and a bit happy. There's a few stories about how I pulled it it off, but I can come back to them if someone is interested. Thus I started my final year of undergrad, or so I thought. I was 21 by that point and started to suspect that I was bipolar. >>> To be continued when I finish some tasks

>>69516 That sounds absolutely horrible Lain. Don't talk yourself down too much, there's acknowledging a bad situation and there's self-talk so negative you smother your will to improve. I don't know your exact situation but that post defenitely sounds like the latter. >>69570 I'm 23 and started seeing results of my efforts about 5 years ago. No dissonance back then though, that started 2.5 years ago when I went to uni and had a real shift in my social life. >>69519 >>69584 >>69590 Thanks for the advice Lain, I'm looking forward to the continuation of your story. >>69585 >people around you are people. Not some angels from other dimensions. If only rationally knowing would fix the emotional wound.

>>69590 It went pretty well for the most part but I neglected to pass the exams preemptively hoping to do it in the second semester. There was some drama with my diploma but I'm hazy on the details so let's just move along. Then it was 2020 and the news of WW3 were in the air. I had to retake one of the exams but some kind of mental block made it so I was ready to do anything other than that. So much so that I called a girl I met online and we've been to oceanarium once before in December over in February and we filled the flat with alcohol and lust. She wasn't into me at that point, neither was I, we were both fuarrrked up (later I found out just how much she was) and now we were in some sort of sex friend relationship while I let my academic life spiral out of control once again. Then somehow I managed to make myself attend almost everything that I had to essentially. It was mostly because the subjects were likely the best I had in a year or so, very interesting material and good professors. There were some crazy people that taught about how Caesar defeated the druids that discovered the secret of flight of something but I didn't mind too much. Then the COVID started to hit and we barely managed to get the last exam outside of the uni on the 23rd of march and then the lockdown hit I bought two bags plus my big backpack made for hiking with tents worth of supplies and hunkered down... Is what I want to say, but instead it turned into this: The main part of the semester was on easy mode. We had some online lectures but you could just do anything as long as you were in a call I once went to a supermarket during a lecture with my headphones. I had straight A's because instead of the full course you usually had to just submit an essay on email or something like that. I still struggled even with that simple of a task, bitade it through. But the exams I had not passed were another issue. Essentially there was no way to even attempt passing them in these circumstances so I had to just hope it gets better before it's time to graduate. I also had to finish my project for a diploma. The part that requires hand on work was done but I needed to write. And last but not least I was now in the worst relationship of my life hands down. It just speaks volumes about how desperate for company and sick and tired of my usual life I was that I accepted this arrangement. We were from completely different worlds, she was noticeably overweight compared to her photos from a year ago (she had bulimia as it turned out), she was extremely needy and self centered, smoked, drank and was extremely horny. Went to arts school. Had a guy she was in love with that was living in another city, had kids and loans he struggled with but she was super into him and facetimed him constantly. Anyway, She was visiting once a week despite the lockdown so we had our debauched fun untill one day the guy dumped her while she was visiting. She went ballistic, screaming into the night and laying naked on the floor sobbing so I comforted her In any way that I could. Now she suddenly realised that she was really into me all of a sudden. If before it was manageable because there was a certain distance between us now it was fully on. Essentially she was so unstable that I feared that she would harm herself (she already attempted suicide once as she told me and spent some time in the mental institution) if I just quit her cold turkey and there was also an element of self sabotage and trying to have feelings for her too to justify everything that happened before. >>> To be continued after I finish reading a book PS Here's a weird in depth tangent about sex. You can skip it if you want. As I said she was extremely horny. Later I found out that she had been a cam model for money at some point and then got raped in the park by her colleague and her boyfriend. But simultaneously she didn't even do any blowjobs or anything of that sort before our relationship. Only normal sex and toys, she said she mastubated so much that her hands and dicks weren't enough to make her cum anymore. So essentially as she explained sex was the only time she felt safe and comfortable with being alive essentially, and that was the reason she was so obsessed with it. She had a condition that made it extremely unlikely that she would get pregnant even if she tried and since I was the only partner she had we did it raw. Here comes the interesting part. There is a noticeable change in experience between before she was really into me and after. You could really feel it. People say you can tell if a girl is enjoying it and has feelings for you and I was skeptical but it turned out to be completely true. If before she just made some noises and occasionally tightened herself now she was almost screaming and extremely tight without being conscious of that herself. True to her words normal sex was never enough to bring her to climax but I love pleasing a woman so I would usually help her afterwards or leave the room to let her finish by herself. The issue was that she wanted a lot of sex and she was increasingly bold with it, herself suggesting we try some kinky stuff on both of us and buying soykaf from a sex store with her friend to gift me for my birthday. Sometimes she would just grab my junk and demand it get hard again. It was a strange experience being the one who tried to avoid sex in a relationship.

>>69623 So we partied. I probably did the most debauched things I ever did during these months. It wasn't too bad, she had some interesting friends and some dates and bars that we went to were enjoyable. She also had an adorable Shiba Inu called Tanuki, he was great. Her mom was also nice. She was a good person for the most part, just really messed up and bad for a relationship. Other than those fun things though it was cheap wine, bad food, sex, talking about our exes amd fuarrrked up things we saw or experienced and so on. I distinctly remember that one time... I usually know my limit pretty well and don't like to get fuarrrked up but this time I drank half the wine and hid another to prevent her from drinking too much because she was unstable. Didn't really work but I got fuarrrked up, peed in an elevator, bit into a gas lighter and breathed too many fumes so I vomited all over her balcony (we cleaned up later but forgot that there was some on the outside of the balcony so she got scolded by her mom anyway. I certainly don't regret the experience now but don't really want to go back to this. I flubbed my diploma and physically couldn't pass my exams due to lockdown and being unstable so I got expelled right before graduation. That really depressed me, my Mom crying on the phone still haunts me sometimes. Still, I was glad it was over. I spent some more time with my gf and went to live with my parents for a while during summer. After hat I ghosted her and we never spoke again. She seemed stable enough now and I was so depressed and felt that even for her I was too much of a failure. I went on a fishing trip with my dad and his friends and then my parents went on a vacation and left the housekeeping and gardening to me while they were gone. We talked about me getting a job and I got lucky and got it a few days after they left so I went back since they said that the house will be fine for a few days if I water things a bit more before leaving. After that I worked. It's a whole story but the gist is that despite not having a degree I gat a pretty good job due to luck and circumstances. First few months I was still depressed but then I started to recover slowly, making good money but not really spending since I was busy and just wanted a quiet life and to be left alone. Then I got a bit lonely again. I hit up a friend from back before I went on academic leave, she was already finishing her master's degree by that point. Still, I felt pretty confident and at peace since I had a job and wasn't stressing about studying or living on my parents allowance. I asked her for notes to retake an exam and After I did asked her to come to a bar with me to celebrate. Long story short we got together rather quickly since I was always a bit into her but she was too self conscious and shy to let me in. Now she grew an interest in relationships too so it was a done deal. She's sleeping next to me right now, we're visiting my parents to help with the gardening stuff, to catch up and to change the scenery. With her help my sprits lifted completely and I passed all the nessesary exams and filled the forms and finally got my diploma. After that I left the job and got into studying for my master's. A really big change of fortune from an expelled blob of depression with a dysfunctional relationship to a guy with a good job and a lovely partner in just 6 months and then a few months later I got my diploma and continued my education while being conscious of my mental problems. This turnabout probably was the time I realised the things I posted initially. Trying to build a real serious family (we're not married but everyone basically knows we're in for good now, it's been 2 years living together) really changed my perspectives. Another notable part is that after I got with my current partner I was going through the checks by doctos and suddenly a psychiatrist took an interest in me and diagnosed bipolar disorder type 2. That was a big relief since I finally could rest easy knowing it wasn't my laziness that put me down.

>>69471 >Any lainons went through something simular? Yeah, abuse and neglect at home led to me coming off as "weak" to others once I started school, and as the years went on that opened me up to more and more bullying. The abuse also getting worse at home didn't help. Neither did getting (mis?)diagnosed with autism and being convinced by everyone that I was a subhuman retard because of it. I hated myself throughout childhood thanks to all that. Only had a small taste of happiness when I was 17, took a class on a subject I was really into, and made a couple friends there. Then they all moved away after we graduated. I only stopped feeling this way a few years ago. That's when I learned about childhood trauma and the effects it has on a person's development. Was a real eye-opener. It sent me looking back upon my own youth, remembering a lot of what was done to me, and realizing that no, this wasn't normal. This wasn't something that all kids went through, and I'm not weak for being unable to withstand it, especially without any support. After that I gained some much-needed self-confidence knowing now that it wasn't some alleged autism that made me like this, it was trauma from being mistreated. Now I just feel robbed. Instead of "I'm a defective human being that should've been aborted" it's "I've had a happy life taken from me and I'm not sure if I can get even part of that back, especially since I'm in my 30s now". I still feel like a loser, but now it's only due to a lack of skills and formative experiences. And this belief that most people hate me, save for a few that only tolerate me. I know it's probably irrational but it's really ingrained within me and I don't know how to get rid of it.

>>69648 You are probably a very resilient individual if you went through all of that and didn't completely lose your mind. Think of it like a bone that was broken and then didn't heal exactly right. The bone is much stronger against the things that normal bones can't take, but has weak spots due to not growing back normally. Everybody is dealt a different hand of cards in this life and it's not fair at all what you get. I'm sure my hand wasn't the worst growing up but I did change under it with some similar things to what you describe. I had an accident as mentioned here >>69584 and a near death experience really changed the way I looked at things. Meeting similar people who are much more fuarrrked up (or alternatively much better off, though that is a rare occurrence) and learning about my parents's childhood was also very illuminating. I know it's hard to see people that did you harm as vessels of harm that was done upon them but it's probably the case. Autism or similar things don't come out of nowhere usually and so probably there were some relatives or people in the community with similar symptoms and that birthed this kind of rejection to any neurodivergency. Anyway, as much as a message from a younger lainon from across the globe could help, I want you to know that your trauma is real and you are a good and robust person for bearing it and not letting it ruin you completely. The skills and connections you seek are really not that far off and you are more than capable of obtaining them and more than deserving of having them. The best thing you can do in my opinion is to break the cycle. No doubt this internalised self hatred left you with vestiges of the hate for the other that people around you had when you were growing up. Just as you are struggling there are a lot of people like you that could use a friend or just a guy who will tell them the things you realised later in life. There's nothing wrong with spending time with people who had similar experiences, even if those experiences were painful.

>>69629 Read the whole thing. I'm very glad for you lain, that it ended up so good for you. Especially the part about findi g out about disorder, this is very helpful in the early stages of life. It's is like kicking dead whales down the beach that life becomes bright only after darkest moments, but here we are. I'm only half the stage of overcoming mine difficulties, hope such good ending waits there too

>>69672 Thanks, I appreciate you taking your time to read it. All I can say is that there is much more to the story afterwards and even more in the future. There's really no good ending since life never really ends until it does, but it's usually random or you're so old that you welcome it. I'm sure I'm only brushing up on the edges of human experience, I've never experienced having a child and that would certainly be a whole series of worldview changing events. Probably a few others before and after that. The important thing was that I accepted myself and stopped regretting my actions a few months before my fortunes changed. I then went into a persiods where I relapses but this time there was a person that I loved to inspire and help me get through it. I wouldn't have come as far as I did without them.

>>69471 Consider the following: that girl enjoy spending time with you. You are worth that, at least, you make her like the moments of her life she have with you more than if she wasn't with you. The people who invite you to parties, well they didn't invited me to parties at least no more than one time. If they invite you again it mean they like it more when you are around than when you are not. You make them enjoy their time a bit more. It's what you do, it's who you are.

>Don't hold eye contact with people because that's gay >Obviously have some sort of developmental deficit related to being neglected and threatened my entire childhood >"He's weak I can walk all over him." >They try >Actually a violent 100+ IQ gigachad raised in an American warzone Humans are subhuman.

>>69471 i know the feeling. i'm sorta young compared to what most other people here are saying, but i had a similar experience growing up. since i was small i never felt like i fit in because i was "smart" and "sensible" and "gifted/talented" so automatically i was always an outlier compared to most kids. in what ig is the equivalent of high school i got severely bullied, to the point where because social media had taken off by then i had my identity stolen and people go lie saying slurs to contacts of mine, i had people sabotage the few opportunities i got with girls (which in hindsight dodged me a few bullets looking back, but still) leading to me being a punching bag that people used for homework or any tech-issues they had, only to reward me with more bullying. lockdown saved me to be honest - afterwards people were all so traumatised from having to stay at home that they stopped bothering with it as much, and i was happier as i had had alone time to get work done, and relax. go for walks, make stuff in peace with no one to hassle me. but even as people began to return to normal and go to parties and even invite me to them, like you say, i have always still felt out of place. i've spent times at get togethers sitting there amidst everyone having fun with no one bothering to talk to me, and had people drop/ghost me even if i've "gotten along with them" because they feel i have weird thoughts or am messed up in the head, which is probably a cause of the fact i have spent most of my life alone or bullied despite being into many topics that i would argue are interesting and considered like tech, philosophy, art, etc. just not the normal person bs. examples are when i tell people about my pornography addiction as a coping mechanism. they dont know what to say, and eventually in a round about way always leave. hence why now i am usually the "funny guy" who is alright, doesnt look bad but isnt the best, and who cracks a few off the wall jokes to make everyone laugh, but as all clowns, is "sad inside" and ultimately no ones real choice. everyone enjoys being there with or without me, and no one tries to consider i am a human. i'm an accessory. my family try to be there whenever i go in a depressive state, but i got through almost everything by myself partly because as a kid i never felt i could trust they would be there for me without turning things into a lecture or a punishment because i wasnt their "ideal child". its been so long that at this point now i am an adult, i don't think its really worth explaining to them when they cant do anything anyway. to try and get them to understand i have spent years and years with a mask on would break them. so therefore, to most people this is just how i am. a weirdo, now. i dont drink, i don't have any relationships besides a couple other outcast-type lads. it is what it is. life goes on i guess. i pray once i go to uni things will change. the only places i feel authentic and free is here or other places online like this - even if someone starts on you, you can walk away from the computer, and thats that. you dont have to be anyone. you dont have any ties to the past, or to your reality. its just discussion, and its peaceful.

>>70490 There sure is a lot of whales being kicked in that story, lainon. Cheer up, old chap. Life is about to get much more interesting. So much do you won't have time to reminisce about your bad Past.The next few years are an unique experience. Small bit of advice: don't discuss your porn addiction with anyone IRL. Nobody wants to be told about that, sorry. Also if you don't mention you being bullied and act like it didn't happen you get a xhsn6to rid yourself of this past. No one except you can bring it back so just try not to let it get to you. Adult people are not better than children, they just keep their soykaf together in public better and don't reveal these kinds of thing... At least when sober. In the bright side there would be plenty of people interested in phylosophy, history, literature and other stuff, so that's good. Strange advice but if you get paired up with a girl that seems your speed on a project go for it, because it appears it is much harder to meet people outside of your job when you get older so essentially university is your best chance to get a few options. Even if it doesn't work out right there and then, you can return tolster if you were close enough in the past. My current partner was basically the last person out of that list and I'm certainly glad for both of us because if we wouldn't have got together then we both were probably going to be alone for quite some time afterwards.

>>70492 yeah. thanks for the kinda words. i hope what you say is true. i guess uni is the final opportunity before i truly "lose it all" in that regard after my life becomes solely work and home. sometimes i feel like i make the problem myself; like there isnt anything actually wrong and i'm overthinking things. but i will keep what you say in mind and try to fit in more in uni. i'm going to a design school for graphic/media design so hopefully people will be similar to me or at least more understanding because design requires more empathy? idk i can only see. >Small bit of advice: don't discuss your porn addiction with anyone IRL. Nobody wants to be told about that, sorry. i've only told people when they ask why i am so uncomfortable around women, never just as a casual dump in convo; i usually have tried to deny it but when insisting they want to me to be honest i have realised it is a factor; i found it very young (~10) and it has warped my views significantly to the point where i am uncomfortable around women because i get reminded of videos/etc that are fuarrrked up/even to the point i had flashbacks mid convo from excessive watching of vr videos, or i feel like i have extremely perverse intrusive thoughts. the excessive dopamine has also probably ruined my brain chemistry too like someone on drugs, and you definitely can call it an addiction because for me its no longer about the enjoyment, its a must to get through the day despite not being a substance what i meant by it was the few times i have truly opened up to people, they never really bothered to help afterwards, instead getting weirded out. i understand why, but its how it is, and has probably also impacted self esteem.

>>70497 Visibility is vulnerability, connection is cruelty, closeness is mutual harm, change is death. The core desire is invulnerability, absolute control, and exemption from the natural order. How do you achieve that? You kill yourself, and you work to make damn sure it stays dead. You enter a state of living death, while the outward imitates life. The mindset people talk about this from is totally backwards. Through porn you're not seeking out the illusion of warmth and connection, you want the cold. The cold is all the core understands. After you orgasm, what you likely feel is cold. Cold, empty, alone. And that makes you feel good, because it is familiar. So you feel warm because you feel cold. Not the other poster.

>>70498 i can see what you are saying. it is, after all, a coping mechanism. i am well aware of all the issues, i have analysed and analysed my behaviour to the point i know what i am doing when i do it. i just need to find a way to fix the dopamine-issues. i've tried to quit and change my mindset but its so hard to quit because you get no "high" from anything else, and you got everything on you ready to go instantly at any moment. you need to metaphorically kys to become someone else, which has been hard for me because i've been in the same places my whole life. not only that, but the external "triggers" make quitting common addictions like nicotine or alcohol look easy. you can just "keep the substance away" but this is, at this point, an identity tie and is permeated as a cultural overlap where most things involve some form of reference or ideation of it. i know it is backwards as a mindeset. i guess i need to stop saying i'm addicted and start saying i'm not into it. to reinforce the new identity, and stop blaming external factors for my own shortcomings. but you are right in saying this analogy: >what you likely feel is cold. Cold, empty, alone. And that makes you feel good, because it is familiar. So you feel warm because you feel cold. it gets to the point after years and years where the only thing you feel comfortable in is the misery, or in my case, wanting the "cold" to "feel warm". i think i speak for the other posters here in saying we share that in common. you get messed up to the point where being messed up is the only way you feel like yourself, because you are so accustomed to it that you wouldn't feel like yourself otherwise.

>>70499 I'm pretty much high af (in a semi-numbed sense) 24/7. I've found eating massive amounts of cacao is not helpful, overall, because it eliminates contrast. Everything becomes a haze of good, and then it becomes a haze of nothing, with phasic mania terror and psychosis. I have found adding turnera diffusa (damiana), polygonum multiflorum (he shou wu), and mucuna pruriens (L-DOPA) to be helpful. They're all considered aphrodesiacs, but they seem to have the inverse effect regarding slipping into cheap sources of dopamine. I also find myself coupling arousing stimuli with other tasks, much like you see artists on pixiv making a landscape but then either including or making the focus of the scene an attractive woman, despite that each could exist separately. So I think this approach displaces, or replaces, that particular behavior. Not sure about your case, my life is a level of fuarrrked up that is difficult to comprehend or conceive of from within. Constant physical torture, psychological torture, existential torture. So I see myself as in a war against the world itself. There is me, there is the world. There is me, there is everyone else. There is me, there is all that is not me. And so by modifying those variables (splitting applied to the world basically) I can merge with the world and do other things, which also don't help. My current approach is conquest. This palce has done everything possible to try to cripple and break me. I must return to an elevated state and be the one that gets it all done, or else I have nothing.

>>70499 >>70500 >>70500 i see. i relate to that last part where you say > my life is a level of fuarrrked up that is difficult to comprehend or conceive of from within. Constant physical torture, psychological torture, existential torture. So I see myself as in a war against the world itself. There is me, there is the world. There is me, there is everyone else. i similarly get phases of delusion and of "non-delusion" which you could probably diagnose as something, but i personally maintain that i dont wanna be put down that pipeline of being considered "mentally ill" then doing antidepressants to fake my brain chemicals and basically stay the same just with a chemical sub i guess you could argue that people such as us have developed an ego to survive in times of need, to keep ourselves separate to stay strong by saying "i am separate, and i can get through". and the lasting effects are that the egoism lingers and wrecks havoc through detaching-activities like addiction following the traumatic events it was initially required for, making it out of sync with its environment despite you now being "safe", because you still end up with the sense of importance and the bottled up pains you want to remedy through escape as you once had to (bringing us back to the "wanting to be cold to be warm" i personally dont think i'd give in to doing a substance to substitute would work. i dont trust myself. i think what i need is an ego death of sorts to reduce the sense of self i feel through the negative identity. however, this is hard for the ego to see and it will always return like a chronic disease to almost tell you "but this is who you are don't lie". it's like a voice all the time. maybe thats what "the devil" is, just the personification of the ego we all have in us. maybe life just needs a lot of acceptance as some people say, but its hard to take the "it is what it is" pill after having consistent pains and feeling you can still "be ok" or "get better and be like everyone else" after you never know what that feels like truly.

>>70514 And yes.... I am aware of the sorry attempt that was my octogram.

>>70514 Wish I could edit. Lastly, 153 is what "third cube" gives in reverse. So the 333 connection is present all the way through all variations.

>>70497 Honestly if my memory serves me right I was exposed to the ideas of masturbation and stuff like that when I was around 6 and then around 11 my body cough up and I've been on it ever since. Luckily I guess I was somewhat insulated by the fact that I was surrounded by older girls in my childhood and looked up to women in my family as mentors as much as I did the men. Somehow that evolved into the opposite of what you have, complete adoration of femininity and desire to have it as close as possible. Thinking about it now I probably would have thought about that as some kind of slippery slope to becoming a femboy or something, but in my case it was just desire to spend as much time as possible around pleasant women as opposed to men. I remember reading articles about how most men are threating women like soycaf in both every day life and in the bedroom (it was mostly sexual at the beginning, but then I thankfully expanded the notion to everything else) while in high school. That was also the peak of my masturbation habits because I had the house all to myself for a lot of time. I've read about Asian practices of orgasms without ejaculations (because they think the seed is sacred but if you jerk off without spilling it you are super enlightened, I guess) and so I set about exploring into that direction with hours long masturbation rituals. Eventually I achieved it. It's an interesting feeling, some describe it as similar to a women's orgasm because it goes in waves and is noticeably longer and more dissipated. If someone has any experience in that, feel free to share I'm still interested In the topic though I don't practice it now. Anyway, here's some more advice in light of what you said. Try to spend more time in the women's company. College women are the best for it, especially if they live away from parents, you will experience the simple truth that women are just people and they have their dreams and they sweat and they are not sexual objects but at the same time not opposed to flirting and sex jokes in the right circumstances. Also it's nothing wrong with you that you have sex constantly on your mind, it's just your age, you are primed for procreation. Give it time, it will subside significantly by 25 or so. Women are also like that, but they have a cycle so they can be very sex ceased one day and in a week want nothing do with it. After watching many women struggle with their cycle It's hard to tell what is worse: the agony of your hormones screaming sex in your mind all day every day for 10 years straight or the cycle. Both are pretty much like kicking whales yada yada. Sorry, I gotta go. I'll write something more coherent when I have more free time. Feel free to ask anything, I'm an open book. Granted, the book's in a foreign language and half the pages are missing, but I'm an open book.