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Is people suggesting horrifying punishments for common crimes an exclesively online phenomenon? If yes,what are the demographics. I've seen some vile soykaf heavily upvoted on youtube, reddit and so on. I genuinely hope this wont spill out into legisla tion across the west. I've read somewhere that 30% of the global population supports torture. Are these people real? Anyone else notice?(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST, You should always elaborate on your opinions rather than just spilling the soykaf. Can you provide examples and what you actually think / want to discuss about the topic ? )

That is the human substrate. Have you ever cracked open a history book?

what is a horrifying punishment, what is a common crime ? You mean like branding people for stealing ? chopping ears ? General public humiliations ? Honestly I think that all sounds more reasonable than prison. frequent recidivists should just be killed, and no one should be awaiting execution for 5 years. Hell no one should be in prison for 5 years. Most of the people I've met who agree seem to be younger, law abiding whites, but this also just is my social circle.

I heard that during tue football world cup in Iran, some dudes were sentenced to getting whipped for something like public drunkedness. I think whipping is a pretty good idea for punishment that ought to be considered more often, but in the west that'd probably be considered "torture."

No such thing as an exclusively online phenomenon anymore. On the bright side I think a lot of this is just about there being zero accountability for opinions. Someone can say or amplify something like "I should be allowed to shoot people who cut me off in traffic" or "eat the rich" just because it feels satisfying to do so, and they don't have any need to worry much about what would actually, in reality, happen if their lazy solutions were implemented. They don't have to do any research, they don't have to consider opposing arguments, they won't be criticized if it turns out it was in fact a bad idea, and they will support contradictory statements that happen to seem popular and sound good without worrying about the contradiction. I'm not sure why I said that's a bright side actually, kinda seems like we're fuarrrked.

>I genuinely hope this wont spill out into legislation across the west. You should not worry about that. Justice systems and lawyers as a group are completely opposed to and institutionally resistant to hoi polloi plebeian nonsense like that. They're disgusted by it, they know very well that it does not work and they also know that it's incredibly expensive. (Fun fact: capital punishment is such an enormous waste of money that it's still a thing in rich countries that can afford it, like the US, or in the poor Asian garbage world. Nothing in between.) The opinions of random idiots that don't understand the legal system and know nothing about it's history are irrelevant. They cannot change the system.

>>68552 >capital punishment is such an enormous waste of money that it's still a thing in rich countries that can afford it HA! havent seen this argument in a while. You ever think about why capital punishment is so expensive in the us? Maybe something to do with the fact that you've got so many people awaiting execution for _decades_, combined with trials and mandatory appeals and further reviews and so much lawyering that it makes your head spin. makes mine spin anyway. Following that they frequently like to finish it off with some peculiarly contrived and medicalized system like lethal injection, which then gets complicated when the drug companies refuse to sell to them, and they can't find a vein to inject into the guy cause he's scarred and squirming. You could save all the effort and, once convicted, just hang them, or shoot them. The additional cost after the base trial could easily be less than 10k usd. As it is its basically as expensive as life in prison, with a bunch of other lawyer fees and other things tacked on. of course its bad. The reason lawyers will never want to change this is because that's how they stay employed. If justice was swift and straightforward nearly their entire profession would have to find something useful to do.

No it isn't. "A good criminal is a dead criminal" is a popular saying where I live (not US), both irl and on social media. Most of the people saying it still simp for criminals however, they just really hate small time thieves, burglars and the likes.

>>68540 Short memory? 25% of the population wanted to throw me in jail for not testing a experimental gene therapy. Ring any bell? It was rebranded as a vaccine. For real crimes, we are facing a extremely simple problem: our (France) jails are full. That mean the judge know he can't give the due jail time to guilty criminals, he have to give them less years. The the judge of application of sentence who also know we have 4 people in every cell made for 2 persons will simply release the criminals who have been charged with less than 2 years. You can not go in jail in France if you don't do anything big. Even if you do, you won't even make half the time you are supposed to do if you behave because they have to make room. The result? Small criminal like drug dealers have a de facto immunity. They are arrested 20 time every weeks and just walk out of the police station every time. The cops get discouraged and stop arresting them. What's the point? Yes, sentences should be harsher than "let the criminals roam free unless they kill someone".

>>68632 drug dealing is a meme crime anyway to be honest. In reality its just corporate using gov for a monopoly. Ritalin/adderal is almost same thing as meth with the real difference being that you cant have a patent on meth. Hence they ban the free soykaf and sell their patented original idea do not steal copy. (look at the structural formulas, they just added a small change to meth so they could patent it as a new product ritalin/adderal)

>>68633 I never said that the ones who finance the campaings of all the politicians shouldn't be forced to collect piss bottles along the road 10 hours a day for years.

How do you feel about whipping, the death penalty, or other harsh/forbidden punishments being a voluntary alternative to incarceration? Like the criminal gets the choice to be whipped or go to jail for six months, or if they get life in prison they can elect to be executed instead.

>>68633 >drug dealing is a meme crime anyway to be honest. doesn't mean drug dealers shouldnt be executed or at least permanently marked somehow and executed if they keep dealing. >ritalin and adderal are basically meth and the dealers of adderal and ritalin should be treated the same as the dealers of meth and weed. >>68667 the criminal's prefferences should not be terribly high on the list when it comes to choosing his punishment, though perhaps they can be on the list. Main questions should be: what, if anything, will make right his crime (and oblige him to do it), and second, what will prevent him from further criminal acts, and third, which are the most expedient/economical/practical, fourth, prefference of the persons involved. If you come up with something like insane muderman who can't be stopped, there's no remedy to a murder but perhaps you start with full reposession of the murderers wealth to the family of the victim. Second, you realize he cannot be stopped except by removal from society (exile, life in prison or execution really), third, the only economic ones of these are exile or execution, and fourth, well the neighbors wont like exile so best to just kill the guy. Maybe you give him prefference of a few execution methods and his choice of last meal.

>>68667 > whipping Corporal punishments are the great equalizer. You wouldn't like half of your hard earned money being taken from you, a good old beating nor going to jail, nay, you wouldn't like any of them. You see the lowlife who don't even have money to pay a fine and who think of jail as a free roof, free hot showers and free food? Ho, there is one thing he wouldn't like. You see the drug dealer who have tons of undeclared money and can pay any fine like it's nothing and have half of his friends in jail? Well, there is one thing he will not like. You see the big banker who made trillions out of whichever crisis was the last one? He will pay any number of billions you want in fine and will laugh about it with his friends and even if you manage to land one in jail, it will be a VIP jail. Ho, but there is one thing he won't like. Subsequently, we are being told by the people in position of power that not having corporal punishments in a moral imperative. >death penalty We are not made to interact with each others. If we somehow value the live of innocent and oppose the idea of rape, then we must ensure that some people are removed from the streets. There is only two way: the dishonest death penalty where we place him in a cage until he die of old age and the honest one. The only other option is for someone who can be anyone you love to be horribly maimed or killed. >or other harsh/forbidden punishments being a voluntary alternative to incarceration? Locking people is a cage is expensive and unproductive. Not only they don't learn from their mistakes here but they meet other criminals. They are nicknamed schools of criminality. I believe detention should serve a purpose and it should be done in a detox center, a labor camp or whatever the person need to be in for the sake of society. The opinion of the criminal should only matter marginally, like if they wish to just do their time it should be in a minimum security prison.

>>68554 >The reason lawyers will never want to change this is because that's how they stay employed. If justice was swift and straightforward nearly their entire profession would have to find something useful to do. You're incredibly naive and I'm going to tell you why. A programmer is a profession but it's also a way of thinking. You get that, right? A lawyer is also a profession but just as a programmer it's primarily a way of thinking except programmers have been around for, what, 50 years and lawyers have been around for millennia. Every lawyer is a practitioner of a tradition that's almost 3000 years old, different nations, different legal systems, generation after generation, same way of thinking taught over and over. Do you know why? Because it works, silly. Every now and then some dorks decide to be "tough on crime" and "deliver swift justice" and execute people in the streets but those systems always collapse. State terror, because that's what this thing really is, can last up to 5 years max and then adults take over and it's back to the tested methods of courts and legal procedures. Anyway, there's no such thing as justice, like, you need to grow up. It's one of the first things you learn as a lawyer by the way, everybody has their own idea on what justice is and what is and what is not just and that's just not a lawyer's job. And for goodness' sake, nobody gets into criminal law for for monetary reason, that's not where the money is, you get that right? Why do you think public defenders exist? Think, like use your brain, are you stupid or something?

>>68554 >Is people suggesting horrifying punishments for common crimes an exclesively online phenomenon? In the west, yes mostly. Elsewhere no. People in cushy dictatorships wish they lived in hardline dictatorships. I think it's just the fundamental human urge to self-destruction, externalized as an urge to purge the wicked because that's the only way such policies can be entertained by the civilized. > I've read somewhere that 30% of the global population supports torture. Mostly that's nationalism. It's probably more accurate to say that 30% of the global population isn't opposed to torture (when their state does it)

>>68710 A lot of people don't actually respond to torture and deprivation. Effective torture requires a mixed bag, to exhaust and terrify. You cannot either too quickly violate a person's underlying criteria for life being worthwhile, nor can you be so light and repetitive as to allow habituation. You must degrade a person into a state where you have such absolute control over them that they perceive pain as a personal failure where they harmed themselves. You must establish an ever morphing and shifting "island of stability" amidst an endless sea of pain, where the oasis is a reward of less pain and more choice in how it will hurt, only to take it away again, like a mirage. Back into the sea. Eventually a person submits and organizes themselves around seeking and clinging to the island. If you're going to that point you might as well just take the fruits of Satanic Ritual Abuse and the MKULTRA Monarch program, and try to just break them down and reprogram them. We will hollow you out and fill you with ourselves. Old self, ashes. Asleep. Fragmented memories from another life. Now the new.

>>68716 >You're incredibly naive and I'm going to tell you why. why, thank you. Those are some interesting things to think about. Here are some things I'm wondering about. In the 1600s's, in Virginia, it would take less than a year, perhaps just a couple months, for courts to convict and execute crimes like rape, murder, sodomy, piracy and burglary. In the 18th century across america my random sampling of executions makes the appearance that they happen within a couple months of a first trial, some take a couple years to get to trial, none that I found more than three ish years. In Montana in the 1870s it could take 3.5 months to go from murder to execution. In the 1920s in Nebraska it took about a year and a half to go from arrest for murder to execution. In Georgia in 1938 it took 8 months . Of executions to take place in the US in 2022, the average time between crime and execution was 26 years. There are people awaiting execution in the US who have been on 'death row' for over 40 years. If the execution rate of the united states was what it was in 1790's virginia, the US would execute around 5000 people a year on average. In 2000, 85 were executed, more than have been executed any year since. Nebraska in the 1920s didn't have many executions, but their rate scaled to the current US population would still give us about 200 a year (worth noting that in the 30s there seem to be none). The dates and cases I checked for this are semi random, going partially off of when I can find what look like real population statistics quickly and whichever names in the long lists of executions catch my eye, but nevertheless its cleat that modern USA has an aberrantly low number of executions given our history, and an aberrantly long average period between the beginnings of a first trial, and execution. I don't want to pretend I have an excellent explanation for all whats going on here, but there's clearly something going on, whatever it is, and current day USA isn't the norm in a sea with a few 5 year periods of aberrance, but a recent trend in our ~400 year history. Even if simply enough fewer crimes are being commited to account for the rarity of executions, this doesn't explain why it takes so long for executions to be carried out. Pic unrelated (source: https://fluster <word filter dares me to say this word related to a tricky bird again > ed.blogspot.com/2010/07/40-years-of-lawyer-overproduction-data.html )

>>68716 >Do you know why? So the rich and powerful would not face the same justice than the peasant? >everybody has their own idea on what justice is and what is and what is not just and that's just not a lawyer's job I see you knew it. Anyway, this is why I think we must make deep reforms in the justice system, in particular with a clear chart of punishment for each crime. You killed someone, you have never been found guilty of anything in the past, you have this clause, you get that much time in that sort of prison. With lawyers and the sentence being left to the fancy of the judge, one guy will get 2 years and another 20. >>68719 Modern torture focus in placing the person in another state. It's the point of sleep deprivation, some chemicals or waterbording. There is case, like the French war in Algeria where the only alternative to torturing terrorists is to accept to see hundreds of people being killed every months and to call that normal.

>>68540 Things have been like this for pretty much all of human history. I'd recommend giving A Clockwork Orange a watch if you've not seen it, since that's one of its themes. As >>68552 and >>68716 point out, most people with a legal education will be staunchly opposed to this sort of thing, as would anyone even slightly sceptical of the state having too much power. Ideally, it should be as difficult as possible for the state to get a conviction. That's why things like double jeopardy exist, and why (You) probably don't like state surveillance.

>>68726 >Ideally, it should be as difficult as possible for the state to get a conviction. You're presupposing a couple things here: First, that the state needs a conviction to punish Second, that it is better to delay conviction, or avoid it entierly in service of certainty, than to leave possible dangerous individuals free and unpunished And third, that the hurdles imposed will actually increase certainty and not just make it a game of who gets the better lawyer or such soykaf. None of these three things are neccisarily true. In the modern US its pretty clear that none are consistently true.

>>68716 > there's no such thing as justice, like, you need to grow up. It's one of the first things you learn as a lawyer by the way, perhaps this could be the problem with lawyers, who in a just society would not be given the power that they have in ours. A king states laws and makes justice, a lawyer twists laws and does not beleive in justice. We have far too many lawyers and no kings, and perhaps you want a little bit of both mindsets for a healthy society. >nobody gets into criminal law for for monetary reason, that's not where the money is a baker doesn't get into pro baking because thats where the money is, but if we didn't pay bakers at all and expected them to fully pay their own way, we'd have fewer bakers, and less bread. It may be that lawyers have ideological compulsions that lead them to lawyering, but taking away the money will probably reduce their numbers, anyway. They will continue on as amateur word twisters and befuddelers of truth (if their complusion is true) in their free time.

Yeah its a thing I dont know why you are talking about it spilling into the west its the west spilling into the internet. More than anywhere else america. Me and my friends talk about it often, theres a huge revenge vengeance complex in america even in my family. I remember seeing some reddit thread reading on youtube about worst crimes to have in prison and people were literally just making stuff up that are fantasies in real life like "people who abuse or kill animals get the soykaf kicked out of them in prison". As if there isnt actual killers in prison or thousands of robbers who had to shoot a barking dog. Reddit is definitely the worst about it. Someone will like say something rude in public and they will somehow make it about how this person will get end up in prison getting raped and feel like they are playing a part in the revenge by saying that. Its like that falling down scene where he shoots up the burger joint over not getting breakfast. In fact if you go to a clip of that scene you will see comments like "this is what happens when mans had enough....", maybe not anymore perhaps. I saw that scene posted on tiktok and the comments were extremely critical. Because of that I dont think it will permanently be in legislation or anything, its a group of people within a group of people in a certain timeframe that talk like this and its already being criticized by the younger ones thankfully. I honestly didnt understand why you were warned for this post till seeing the comments and realizing people just dont see this sort of stuff here. It is definitely definitely a noticeable phenomena I just dont think its one with any serious impacts its more or a symptom of as I said this kind of western vigilante revenge sentiment. going postal, having enough, but normalized. That might be why its not being noticed in the comments this is kind of the sort of board where people harbor those kind of misanthropic sentiments.

>>68719 Anon why do you know so much about how to control people? Why do you think like this? I hope you get cancer and die

>>68540 People who use those bright white LED headlights should dragged out of their car, beaten without but a small kernel of mercy or compassion, then their mangled broken body lifted up by the throat to shove their face right up to the headlights. After long enough to feel satisfied, toss the thing in a heap and leave them to whatever fate awaits.

>>68540 >Is people suggesting horrifying punishments for common crimes an exclesively online phenomenon? Read a history book. Discovery era European countries executed people for basically anything. England had a neat loophole though called benefit of clergy, basically if you were smart enough to read you were spared execution. This effectively meant england genocided their low iq, low impulse control criminal class and a few generations later they built an empire to rule the world. We've had 60 years of hippy-dippy soft on crime liberalism bullshit and no one can deny that society is denigrating at an alarming pace. It's time to stfu and start throwing people out of helicopters.