The state of the world?

Are things going downhill? I know this is a basic question. But I take a look at the world around me, and it all seems to be in this state of mass entropy I cannot fathom being able to avoid. Everything seems to be cascading towards gradual degradation and I can't even recall the last time an idealist existed and was 'popular'. When did believing in things become so loathed? I feel like I missed a step or beat to the tune everyone else is dancing to, I feel really out of place. I'm not depressed, but everything seems -really- fuarrrked. Am I wrong? Is it just my perception that's skewed, or is the world becoming more and more jagged, and sharp, and pointy?

Also if I see another 'satire' comic on modern society that shows a bunch of people looking at their phones and one guy going 'Hello?' I just might scream.

Things aren't going downhill but people are very scared of death, disillusioned with reality. I attribute this to a society that focuses greatly on safety and guarantee of basic needs, while not focusing enough to find outlets for our underworked brains. I think we will find that we get sad regardless if we have something to be sad about, angry regardless if we have something to be angry about. Yet when we seek to fix the source of these things we find it to be something completely untangible. Problems commonly posted here "for some reason people just don't like me", "i lack purpose". We always turn it inwards or outwards, this uneasiness in society is the culmination of this. There's something wrong with me or something wrong with everybody, or perhaps something wrong with the world. One solution is we learn to accurately assess what is genuinely a problem or threat and what is one in our heads, but much of society already functions on the assumption that a problem in our heads is a real problem. That social death is real death. Society would collapse if this really happened. Yet it's the only way I see for humanity to move forward, realization that we can meet our basic needs and not endlessly complexify and gamify survival to satisfy our brains. My solution may be incorrect, but I am 100% positive the feelings of unease are self created due our very efficient brains almost need to problem solve. When the big issues are dealt with we progressively focus on smaller and smaller issues. This can continue infinitely I believe or perhaps I am addressing the final problem here and we are close to some kind of breakthrough as i'm not under any illusion that I am so far ahead that somebody else isn't thinking exactly what i'm thinking already and with more invested in it.

Honestly, things are just changing from a bad state that we are used to to another bad state that we are not used to. Because humans are simple creatures, we have rationalized the old bad state but can more clearly see that where we're going is bad.

I typed up a long response to say to you, but in the end I realized what I wanted d to say is that people don't change all that much unless they want to, and it is more profitable to keep people form changing, because you can plan on how to take advantage of them as long as they remain tethered to their most basic instincts ad desires. >Things aren't going downhill but people are very scared of death, disillusioned with reality. you are not wrong in a sense, but I have seen the downhill spiral, and people are too disillusioned to see it coming. Some of the horrible things in this world today will be magnified tenfold over the next few years. once you try to tell people to change, they will laugh at you, and you will realize how futile it is. programmed authority worship is becoming more and more prevalent. I have written papers on the subject of psychology and trying to convince people to make long term economically sound decisions, but most people when faced with short term turmoil will opt for destructive gain instead of sustainability. the only way to stop the downhill state of the world is to convince people in 3rd world countries that destroying nature for profit or personal gain is not beneficial. Its like telling a kid that he should not eat candy because it will give him diabetes the problem is people want to live, and the way to live is to not die, in not dying, people consume resources, and more consumed resources = perceived better quality of life. the Idea of safety is an illusion, but it is becoming more and more transparent. Sustainable trade and manufacturing is almost nonexistent in some of the most populace areas (mechanization is also leading to a loss of cultivated trade skills). seeing 3rd world lifestyles first hand is eye opening, especially when you talk with the locals, some of whom will admit what they are doing is terrible for their health or living space/community, but they have limited choices when it comes to income. for some additional reading, consider the increase in meat consumption in Asia or cash crop deforestation, or water privitization. Populations will destroy the world if they do not learn to live substantially. There are several other threads that go in depth on the topic of sustainability, and this one goes with it. to be honest there is no need for war, we just need technological advancement and a fostering of the human spirit. but ideas are not profitable unless monopolized, canned, and sold as "be yourself" >use Facebook to share your ideas (tm)... that everybody else also has. I think we should focus on space exploration (not meme rockets) but actual interplanetary expansion to preserve the human race by finding new and innovative ways to live off of the vast resources of the universe instead of the limited ones on this tiny ball floating in a vast galactic dust cloud.

In the US, there is an increasingly popular movement to trade liberty for a little comfort. People no longer want to take matters into their own hands. They want to watch Netflix and wear sweaters with ironic slogans and live in quaint apartments and visit tiny coffee shops and never grow up. They want to avoid responsibility as much as possible, because it introduces the possibility of failure, discomfort, obligation, and required effort, all things which most people naturally do not want. You can see this in things like the divorce rate and the birth rate, especially in those born in the 80s and later. It is common to never have kids. It is common to get married to someone you don't particularly want to spend your life with and then split up five years later. It is common to bed someone before you know what their last name is. These things are all not very big problems, in the grand scheme of things, but put together they create a worrying picture of those who will inherit the nation. Nobody really wants to outright ruin the country or the world at large. People simply expect an increasingly large part of their lives to be the responsibility of someone else. This is coupled with the stigmatization, almost, of conviction and being genuine that has occurred with accelerating rapidity since the invention of the Internet. Social media interactions are fundamentally built on deception, on the creation of an image of oneself divorced from one's reality, because the end goal of social media is mass appeal, not an increased connection to those one already knows. A key part of this whole deal is the spread of extreme irony, first as a form of humor, and now as a form of daily expression, allowing one to speak to others without ever revealing what one truly believes, by being ironic in every interaction, creating a sort of safety net - a tool to prevent rejection by lowering the emotional investment in others' responses to almost zero. In short, the next ten to fifty years will be extremely interesting for the West, and not in a good way. The amount of people who care for principles and duties and responsibilities steadily decreases, while the amount of people who flee in the face of personal conviction grows, year after year. This isn't due to a sinister cabal pulling strings from the shadows - it is because people are getting too comfortable with their lives and forgetting how to deal with being outside their comfort zone. I've been up for about 28 hours so I apologize for any leaps in logic.

>Are things going downhill? once people can agree on what up or down means then I'll have an answer >it all seems to be in this state of mass entropy I cannot fathom being able to avoid. "The second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy of an isolated system can never decrease over time." The universe doesn't care about what we can fathom, it's gonna keep doing what it's doing humans can't hope to change that, only to describe it. >Everything seems to be cascading towards gradual degradation and I can't even recall the last time an idealist existed and was 'popular'. fuarrrk popular, do what you want. Why do you need someone popular to tell you what to do. >When did believing in things become so loathed? I think it's the opposite. Mass movements are more popular now than ever before. People believe in things, you just don't think they believe in the right things. Probably because the system has adapted to be able to engulf and assimilate these mass movements. The only true rebellion is directed at the system itself, not the symptoms it creates. > I feel really out of place. This is called alienation. It's one of those symptoms. You're not alone. >everything seems -really- fuarrrked. Am I wrong? Nope, most people just delude themselves so they can go on living in relative peace. That's probably the best option to be honest, they seem happy-ish. Everything really is fuarrrked though. >is the world becoming more and more jagged, and sharp, and pointy? The world's always been this way. The problem isn't the world, it's us.

>>6638 Seems about right, this kind of scenario was described in the time machine by h.g. wells, in a more radical way. Its only evolution, the intelligent make things easier and everyone gets lazier. >>6629 >I think we should focus on space exploration (not meme rockets) but actual interplanetary expansion to preserve the human race by finding new and innovative ways to live off of the vast resources of the universe instead of the limited ones on this tiny ball floating in a vast galactic dust cloud. fuarrrk that soykaf, we have enough resources to sustain this planet, yet instead of using it efficiently for everyones benefit, humanity squanders resources for things they dont need and to sabotage one another by using it as way to inflate their egos. We can manage this planet, what makes you think we could manage any other better then we made a mess extraordinaire already. Humanity is a disease, now that it has reached a level where all of our problems could be eradicated, but instead new problems are artificially created, it had shown its true colors and is unworthy of living. >>6643 >I think it's the opposite. Mass movements are more popular now than ever before. People believe in things, you just don't think they believe in the right things. Probably because the system has adapted to be able to engulf and assimilate these mass movements. The only true rebellion is directed at the system itself, not the symptoms it creates. Agree with all of that except that quote. People like to tell themselfs they believe in something, but most of them just have belefs to hide behind and justify their fuarrrked up views. I doubt people today have beliefs that they are truly willing to defend at their own expense. We are fuarrrked hard, my only hope is we can find a way to bootstrap the singularity or some other form of post-human system so this tragedy will not repeat itself after the inevitable collapse of the human system.

This is a long post where I try to explain my views on this whole thing. I apologize if the wall of text seems intimidating, but I promise I've put more time into thinking it out than you will reading it. >>6610 > downhill In a sense, yes. We're seeing a lot more authoritarianism throughout the world (which I'm going to personally take the position is regressive to our current/past state of affairs). This isn't restricted to "left" or "right" politics, but spans the gaumet of politics. Depending on which side you look at, it presents differently: *The left* like social authoritarianism where the popular social constructs they champion (anti-racism, communism, etc.) are seen as sacred and beyond reproach. Disagreeing, even through a rationally backed argument, is akin to crime against the populous. You can see this when victims of rape by immigrants are ostracized for what can only be termed as WrongThink. They've stepped over the boundary of tolerance, and even though they've suffered a tremendous crime against their person and mind, they've cast doubt over the social construct their peers champion. Furthermore, their view on Social Consequence (for instance, as the converse side of Free Speech) is totalitarian: punching nazis, destroying monuments, etc. are all tactics to silence dissent - however constructive or useful for formulating arguments for the benefit of their own agenda. *The right* on the other hand are political authoritarian by and large. Most people on the right (or should we say, Alt-Right? I'll leave that up to you to decide) are in favour of governmental, legal and other non-social forms of authoritarian control (read as: Fascism). This is distinct in the sense that it is a top-down approach to control, rather than bottom-up. A few powerful people produce the social norms and enforce them through pure and simple force. This isn't exactly "opposite" to the social-authoritarianism of the left, since they're enacting the same sort of fear-based force-oriented control over the population. The difference is how they go about implementing it - the masses versus the few. Social versus Political. > it all seems to be in this state of mass entropy There is a method in the madness: the winning of hearts and minds. The entropy is normal human discourse, the ebb and flow of ideas and perspectives. We're seeing a minimum of two radical departures from the status quo in terms of lightning rods for this ebb and flow, and therein lies the higher agitation we're witnessing. > I cannot fathom being able to avoid. Nor should you. Engaging these ideas is crucial to seeing the world you want come about. Ignoring them, or hoping they'll go away simply will not have the desired effect. > When did believing in things become so loathed? It isn't that believing is so loathed, per se, it is what is believed. If you believe in the ideals of one side, you'll necessarily be loathed by its opposite side - this is the nature of political polarization. > I feel like I missed a step or beat to the tune everyone else is dancing to, I feel really out of place. You're not alone, the "two big sides" aren't for us. They're authoritarian, as I've elucidated. What we want is a libertarian (not necessarily "right libertarian", but in the sense of ultimate freedom) world, and the overwhelming majority of political discourse is anything but. > Am I wrong? Is it just my perception that's skewed, or is the world becoming more and more jagged, and sharp, and pointy? Again, you're not wrong

(continued) >>6614 > Things aren't going downhill but people are very scared of death, disillusioned with reality. I would argue they're not scared of any real thing, it's the promise of their opponent - and both of the "big two sides" are offering dangerous, fear-worthy prospects. The disillusion is with things that don't follow some internalized authoritarian view of the world - they're not disillusioned with reality at all, only the lacking of their perceived idea of what the status quo should be being established in reality. > Problems commonly posted here "for some reason people just don't like me", "i lack purpose". we all lack purpose. purpose isn't a granted tangible thing we're given, it's something we create for ourselves. > We always turn it inwards or outwards, this uneasiness in society is the culmination of this. There's something wrong with me or something wrong with everybody, or perhaps something wrong with the world. This, in my mind, is people lacking the understanding of the meaningless-by-default nature of the world. We need to create meaning and with the constant "destructualization" of the world ("critical theory", etc.), we've lost bearing on what it means to *create* meaning, *create* structures that benefit us all. There's something wrong with us all, it's an affliction that affects everybody caught up in the zeitgeist. > My solution may be incorrect, but I am 100% positive the feelings of unease are self created due our very efficient brains almost need to problem solve. I agree and disagree. The problem is what problems we're not solving - creating a meaningful existence for instance. > When the big issues are dealt with we progressively focus on smaller and smaller issues. This can continue infinitely I believe or perhaps I am addressing the final problem here and we are close to some kind of breakthrough as i'm not under any illusion that I am so far ahead that somebody else isn't thinking exactly what i'm thinking already and with more invested in it. We need to avoid thinking we'll ever solve *the* problem, the *final* problem. There'll always be places where we can improve to the benefit of all, and the tireless pursuit of those solutions must be made motivators for the populous. >>6615 > Honestly, things are just changing from a bad state that we are used to to another bad state that we are not used to. In the sense we're going toward authoritarianism, we're going from Bad to Worse. > Because humans are simple creatures, we have rationalized the old bad state but can more clearly see that where we're going is bad. True. However, there is a large contingent who cannot see where they're trying to lead us is in fact worse. >>6629 > what I wanted d to say is that people don't change all that much unless they want to You're forgetting if they're coerced. This is a very real possibility with the rise of authoritarianism. > I have written papers on the subject of psychology and trying to convince people to make long term economically sound decisions, but most people when faced with short term turmoil will opt for destructive gain instead of sustainability. Authoritarianism always posits it is a stable and reliable steward of human-kind, it is "the right way" even though it may appear (or even be outright) destructive. > the only way to stop the downhill state of the world is to convince people in 3rd world countries that destroying nature for profit or personal gain is not beneficial. This is asinine, the 3rd world has so little impact on the rest of us as to be laughable. The 1st world which actually does the pillaging and destruction (including in 3rd world) are who need to be brought to heel. To claim otherwise shows a degree of ignorance to the way the world actually works. > but they have limited choices when it comes to income. The 3rd world has near zero choice in anything they do, they're beholden to the 1st world.

(continued) >>6638 > In the US, there is an increasingly popular movement to trade liberty for a little comfort. comfort, freedom from being offended, the nice fuzzy feeling everybody suffers as much as you but no more, genetically engineered hyper-active WhiteGuilt™ on steroids, security theatre (rather than tangible provable safety). > People no longer want to take matters into their own hands. They never have. The New Deal was not a popular piece of legislation until it bore fruit. Nobody wants to be left holding the bag, nobody wants to take responsibility, nobody wants to be the one who changes the world. > People simply expect an increasingly large part of their lives to be the responsibility of someone else. To elaborate, they expect to defer responsibility to an authority, and thus wilfully give over personal/political/social sovereignty to authoritarians. Nobody wants to be responsible for themselves, let alone others. This, in my opinion demonstrates why two particular authoritarian state models are at the forefront of political discourse: Fascism and Communism. Both offer a path toward conformity, collective responsibility (and thus individualism withers on the vine along with individual responsibility), and of course the point I have harped on Authoritarianism. > This is coupled with the stigmatization, almost, of conviction and being genuine that has occurred with accelerating rapidity since the invention of the Internet. There's more than just being genuine, but also being responsible for one's own thoughts, speech, expression, behaviour, etc. You are expected to signal the group your conformity, behave within the confines of a limited template of acceptable behaviours, repeat and expand upon a status quo of acceptable speech, and reject personal responsibility in favour of collective responsibility. This is more than saying "individually, I cannot improve the world", it is the mantra "I cannot improve the world". > A key part of this whole deal is the spread of extreme irony, first as a form of humor, and now as a form of daily expression, allowing one to speak to others without ever revealing what one truly believes, by being ironic in every interaction, creating a sort of safety net - a tool to prevent rejection by lowering the emotional investment in others' responses to almost zero. I would argue that irony only affects a limited subset of people. The Right are more and more fascist in their ideals, but deal in ironic expressions of their ideals. This is because they *know* their ideals aren't acceptable to the layman at face value. When the fascist says "freedom" they omit "from". Conversely, the Left is quite overt with their totalitarian views, squashing speech and expression through overt violence and expressions. They don't deal in irony, they truly believe their violence is justified. > In short, the next ten to fifty years will be extremely interesting for the West, and not in a good way. The amount of people who care for principles and duties and responsibilities steadily decreases, while the amount of people who flee in the face of personal conviction grows, year after year. This isn't due to a sinister cabal pulling strings from the shadows - it is because people are getting too comfortable with their lives and forgetting how to deal with being outside their comfort zone. The next ten years will dictate if we end up in a Left/Right totalitarian state, the next fifty will dictate if we will survive it. >>6643 > This is called alienation. It's one of those symptoms. You're not alone. We should focus on what we're being alienated from. As I've argued prominently, we're the antithesis of authoritarian, and therein lies most of our disillusionment. > Nope, most people just delude themselves so they can go on living in relative peace. That's probably the best option to be honest, they seem happy-ish. Everything really is fuarrrked though. I would argue it is a little more subtle; people delude themselves they should be entitled to go on living in relative peace. When reality, the harsh mistress she is interjects conflict, people haven't developed the coping mechanism and internally consistent model of the world to deal with it. Their view of the world is fragmentary, built upon theories which are at-best shaky (postmodernism, nazism, communism, etc.) and prone to creating in-group/out-group conflicts. Nobody takes the responsibility to actually create what is better.

>>6649 Good post, thanks for the reply. What scares me is how easily people become pacified. The difference between civiliza and anarchy is a week without electricity and running water. Too often people believe the current state of affairs will continue indefinitely and that keeping stocks of basic supplies and foodstuffs is only for the lunatic preppers you see on TV. I don't want to see my country fall to civil strife or economic distress, just like anyone else, but it has happened to others in the past. Let's hope things continue much as they have, but prepare for them to change for the worse.

>I think it's the opposite. Mass movements are more popular now than ever before. People believe in things, you just don't think they believe in the right things. Probably because the system has adapted to be able to engulf and assimilate these mass movements. The only true rebellion is directed at the system itself, not the symptoms it creates. I sort of agree and disagree mister Cowboy. Whilst things seem to be in an upswing when it comes to belief, at least the basic belief of betterment for people-- it seems like the 'forces' at large, people's perception that the standard, stale cynical status quo must be kept, seem to be utterly rabid in keeping things that way. It seems like the shadowy cunts that make money of the suffering of people seem to be growing in power. I worry that someday I will exist in a world with considerably less freedom to even sit at a computer and enjoy the stimulation of the immense, unending network of information that is the internet. That's a scary thing to think about.

>comfort, freedom from being offended, the nice fuzzy feeling everybody suffers as much as you but no more, genetically engineered hyper-active WhiteGuilt™ on steroids, security theatre (rather than tangible provable safety). Forgive my doubleposting, but this is exactly what I mean. People seem so content to toss freedom away for comfort. Isn't that how the world ends? People who care more about being 'comfortable' then free? I've been though some god awful, personality-changing events in my life, and even though many other people have been through the very same things, I can't imagine those same people wanting to toss away freedom at the chance they'll be more comfortable 'mention' of such events be vaporized. I find this whole culture, this whole -cult- of an outrage culture so sickening, when did these people gain such power?

>>6629 >once you try to tell people to change, they will laugh at you, and you will realize how futile it is. programmed authority worship is becoming more and more prevalent. This. In the end it will be those who actually know what is really happening that will survive, you know? As long as YOU have a noble driving force to motivate you, why would you care about the others. Although, I do believe that you must spread the "truth" just like Socrates in the cave.

>>6638 >They want to avoid responsibility as much as possible, because it introduces the possibility of failure, discomfort, obligation, and required effort I mean, why bother is what I figure to be the bigger question.

>>6660 I'd like to refine what you're saying: Blind belief is on the rise. People who support communism for instance lack the historical knowledge of the evils such systems have facilitated in their states. Conversely, capitalists are equally ignorant of the incredible damage our world takes due to their system. They both allow themselves to go on blind faith that the system is better because (1) it's established or (2) it claims to be inevitable. The wise thing to do is question the claims, observe the real-world consequences and look for alternatives that don't reduce to authoritarianism. Shadowy cunts do make money off of suffering, that's called the profit motive - and it trumps the Survival Motive. >>6661 > how the world ends Not an "end" but the end of an era. Right now in China, the party is implementing a system of social control to ensure continuity of their control. We're seeing the early indications that this will become a global modus operandi in technologically advanced countries, the UK has speech laws for instance, and the USA has blanket surveillance. It's only a matter of time before these systems "grow up" into the totalitarian methods of control. You're quite right to say "comfort" because that's how it is sold to us, but in reality it is domination. >>6671 Spreading the truth will become more and more difficult. Right now we're relatively free, posting here about how we view the possible consequences of the world's shift. In only a few years, these sorts of places could become a social taboo that only outcasts and criminals enjoy. >>6672 That is the question, why bother? Why would you want to have the capability to air a possibly unpopular opinion? Why would you want the right to criticize the government? Why would you want the right to have your opinions not impact your housing, job prospects, food access, etc.? Why would any of these things matter? Unfortunately, it only matters if you're capable of being outside the group, outside the status quo. Most people, it seems, are not. They're content to be, forgive the cliche, sheep. It isn't even a choice to most people, they simply default to that position. Might I suggest some easy listening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI

>>6610 Disconnect once in a while. It's not that things are any worse than before, but that you are being presented with more information of such things. The feedback loop that can occur is that when everyone spends more time on the internet, and do the same thing, their panic will lead them to create a self fulfilling prophecy.

>>6638 Anyone else startled by the likeness of what our society is becoming to Huxley's Brave New World?

>>6629 > the only way to stop the downhill state of the world is to convince people in 3rd world countries that destroying nature for profit or personal gain is not beneficial. They would have to start by kicking all the first world corporations that pay their wages out of those countries. I agree, it'd be a good step but in the short term it's a hard sell when that company job is the only thing keeping your kids fed.

>>6610 The world has been falling downhill since the moment we got consciousness

The world today is fuarrrked, but it was always that way and will continue to be that way for the rest of its existence. That's not necessarily a bad thing, being aware soykaf's fuarrrked is essential to being aware of the good soykaf too. Dark times contrast the good times, Bob Ross, etc.

It seems like in every sense that I can think of, the world is declining. Nature has been destroyed for centuries, and it continues to get worse. Pesticides and plastics are everywhere. The internet is centralized and infested with trackers and ads. Governments are going 1984. Good products are rarer and planned obsolescence is popular. The left is taking away free speech and importing people to ruin their countries because everything is labeled as racism now. We're fuarrrked lol There are too many people in this soykaf polluted world and technology is being abused

>>7391 > it was always that way No it wasn't. We have industrial pollution, nuclear weapons, mass surveillance, cops everywhere. I doubt there's ever been a time in humanity's existence when so many people lived in such physical proximity while interacting so little. In the past, in the worst overcrowded and poorly planned cities, at least there was public life and people still talked to strangers. Even in my lifetime this dynamic has changed noticeably.

All issues aside the system eats itself. Maximizing profit demands dumb uninformed buyers and these people then fail the perquisite for a functioning market - buyers who know what's best for them. What we increasingly maximize is manipulating consumers instead of products. And that is true in the realm of real products as well as selling ideas such as in politics. The result is no real quality control = it goes to soykaf.