How do I stop being disgusted by politeness

Now, don't get me wrong, as a grown adult I do understand the essence of politeness in your daily communication routine and as someone who has no power to change societal standards I can't dictate my own (obviously). So since I do have experience with people and some amount of social skills I obtained fairly recently when I was forced to communicate with people 100 times more than I ever did in my school years (was pretty painful experience first realizing how little of a social skill I had had before I had to use people for achieving my goals and then gaining experience with try-n-fail method) I would like to point out that people kinda overuse politeness to my judgement. Why nobody is talking about politeness being our everyday hypocrisy normalized? "He/she doesn't like me, he/she's just being polite" a bit shocked me when I first faced it and had to deal with it. My view on it is this: 1) that people aren't "naturally polite" and not "naturally good" rather "naturally evil" because they have to put effort into pretending to be "good" (appealing and welcoming); 2) society expects you to be polite "by default" which rather feels like chains you have to wear in order to fit in; 3) once you know a person better and politeness "wears off" they may as well turn out to be insufferable prick and completely disgusting person who will treat you like crap so initial politeness becomes misleading doesn't it?

Mainly I find excessive politeness annoying. >1) that people aren't "naturally polite" and not "naturally good" rather "naturally evil" because they have to put effort into pretending to be "good" (appealing and welcoming); Non sequitur. It must be noted that being impolite does not at all imply evilness; it just implies that you aren't willing to spend extra energy to be polite even if you're already being good. >3) once you know a person better and politeness "wears off" they may as well turn out to be insufferable prick and completely disgusting person who will treat you like crap so initial politeness becomes misleading doesn't it? politeness is for interacting with strangers, not friends. All my actual friends, I pretty much immediately knew we would be friends. Politeness never wore off because we were never polite, we were always friendly.

>>64398 >Friends I wish *sigh*. How did you know that?

>>64397 "Politeness" is a byproduct of low-trust multicultural shilthole societies such as France, USA etc. Note that when I say politeness I dont mean being nice, I mean pre-programmed formalities where you say expected things every time a "favor" is produced. In close knit homogeneous societies, you are mostly interacting with the same people regularly, and there isnt a risk of some foreigner stabbing you if you say something uppidy. In the homogeneous society, everyone is more or less expected to be decent without the tip-toeing and pretentiousness involved. In the post-modern western city, you have no idea if the next guy is fuarrrking insane, on a bender, has a weird sexual orientation/fetish, or hates your guts for where you come from. And in general in there is just a lot of fuarrrked up people and freaks, Also the fact that in post-modern mixed societies you have a myriad of interactions with strangers, possibly even more with strangers than with "friends". Every stranger interaction is a stranger danger moment, so you want to KNOW if there is some danger or not, How do you do this? You act polite, and see if they respond politely, if they DON'T respond politely, it means they hate you SO MUCH or are incredibly shady, that they cannot , or will not even bother to at least pretend to be nice, this is a major redflag and you should be preparing for a fight or to get scammed etc, generally a negative sign.

>>64406 Sounds like a more voiled way of saying "any place that is not exclusively white christian basically turns into mordor". Sorry, but as someone who grew up in a relatively culturally and racially homogeneous society I disagree

>>64406 That's why politeness is so culturally enforced in heterogeneous countries like Korea and Japan.

>>64406 >you have no idea if the next guy is fuarrrking insane, on a bender, has a weird sexual orientation/fetish, or hates your guts for where you come from are you blind ? there is so much signalling for this sort of soykaf. you look at them and determine with fairly decent probability. And in a civil society you then proceed to treat them politely at least to their face, while you both do your utmosts to stab eachother in the back by other means. Politeness is a sign of discipline, ability to control oneself even in hostile circumstances, and respect/mutual understanding. A complicated set of courtesy rules can also act as a shibboleth, for its difficult for unschooled imposters to not set off alarms. Oh! He used the salad fork on his steak! He ate with his left hand! how uncivilized. Because of this it is essential that politeness be unnatural and slightly burdensome. Happy thanksgiving lains and lainettes

Treat it as the filter it is, no politeness gives you social halitosis To judge true character do what everyone else does, seeing how a person treats animals, customer service people and so on

>>64406 >everything bad is a result of postmodernism

>>64406 This is what the all imageboard zero irl diet does to you

>>64397 Sounds to me like a tale of two cultures: politeness and brevity, and both depend whether the collective filter is incoming or outgoing. Brief folk have an inward filter, so they smooth out thorny words. There's no outside filter so they don't sugarcoat their speech either. So, brief <-> brief communication works well. Polite folk have an outward filter, so they make effort making sure their speech doesn't offend anyone. They generally don't have an inward filter, but as folk near them coat their speech, polite <-> polite communication also works well. Each camp work fine by themselves, but looking at each other feels like the salty splatoon vs. stepping on eggshells. A solution here for folks in the "brief" camp here is having patience with them and understanding the direction their mental filter is installed.

>>64397 I am not sure I am polite (because that implies certain level of formality), but I am trying to be nice ("appealing and welcoming"). >He/she doesn't like me, he/she's just being polite Even assuming I don't particularly like you, that does not mean we must be outright rude to each other. Trying to be nice costs basically nothing and make the interaction more pleasant for both sides. Why not do it? However Carniege in "How to make friends and influence people" (I hate the title, but the book is quite helpful) suggests you should genuinely care about the people. You will obviously never have enough energy to care about random stranger as you do for your friends, but if you approach someone with mindset that you care for them and wish them the best, it will show. >[people] have to put effort into pretending to be "good" (appealing and welcoming); It would take more effort to be mean. But perhaps this is something that works differently for different people. >3) once you know a person better and politeness "wears off" they may as well turn out to be insufferable prick and completely disgusting person who will treat you like crap so initial politeness becomes misleading doesn't it? Isn't this still preferable to people being pricks to each other right off the bat? >How do I stop being disgusted by politeness? IMO start doing more of it, improve your social skills, meet more people. It will cease to be something that you particularly notice, and it will come to you naturally.

'Politeness' is a tool of the weak to protect themselves. It reminds me of a small dog loosing it merely being next to a slightly bigger dog, it's scared soykafless, so it barks and shivers. Despite being just as scared, the weak in our society aren't expected to 'loose it' when dealing with the strong, so they shield themselves with 'politeness' instead, now anything mildly offensive coming their way would be instantly condemned by the horde of other weak, the offender attacked and the offended 'protected'(this 'protection' is simply protecting themselves, the weak wouldn't doubt for a second to sacrifice the one they were 'protecting' just a moment ago should the opportunity to gain more security/power arise in doing so). Now what if it was accepted in a dog society to be really-really nice to everyone and then suddenly a psychopathic dog were to decide to start abusing this overextended politeness? It would simply start bashing on the other strong dogs for power and gain sympathy for doing so from the weakest of the dogs as they would treat the psychodog as their protector. The weakest would condemned the strong for resisting even the slightest of the attacks and in doing so would be praised. The whole dog society would become obsessed with politeness as the entire dog population grows more violent and neurotic. Sounds familiar? I don't say you can't be polite and genuinely good. There's a difference between being 'polite' and being polite. The easiest way to check whether someone is genuinely polite in my experience is to play on their fear response and to crack a weird joke, the kind of joke that makes you and anyone involved with you seem wierd to a public. The genuinely polite, being strong and thus not relying on the horde of the weak to protect themselves, would laugh it off while the 'polite' would instantly drop you off their charts as being 'a creep' or an 'intolerant prick' — a kind of person who's putting them at risk of being excluded from the 'polite' club, canceling their protection. Bluegh, disgusting is a good word here, I surely feel that way just by wrighting this. This post goes way beyond what's said here, but whatever, it's not worth drowning the thread in politics. >how do I stop being disgusted by the babble of the weak scared toxic neurotic conformists pretending to be nice people yet hating your guys and willing to sell you off for a penny >just do more of it bro LOL

>>64419 >Sounds to me like a tale of two cultures A good model. >A solution here And a good solution. Sadly both are incomplete. Missing the 3rd culture, liars. Liars weaponize politeness. Liars deliberate dress up vile soykaf in politeness to give themselves plausible deniability. And when the target of a liar fights back with briefness, the polite folk inevitably side with the liar.

>>64423 >Isn't this still preferable to A simple game-theory question. . other guy is other guy is closet prick genuine polite +-------------+--------------- you prick | save time | alienate up front | move on to | lost | better ppl | opportunity +-------------+--------------- you polite | waste time | new friend up front | investing | | in dead end | EV[prick] = TS * P(closet) - LO * P(worth) expected value of being a prick up front = time saved * probability other guy is a closet prick - lost opportunity * probability other guy is genuine 4 variables at play. Variables may vary HAHA GET IT? depending on environment. For example being a prick up front may be +EV on one board but -EV on another board because the prior probability of the other guy being genuine is different. You may find the author of The Scout Mindset interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfRC8ZgBXZw&t=190

>>64425 >The easiest way to check whether someone is genuinely polite A good test if it succeeds, but what if it fails? They won't just drop you, they'll turn on you and sic the other dogs on you as well. I prefer to perform the test by bringing up a "canary", such as a public figure or group. If they slaughter the canary you know they'd do the same to you but you don't actually suffer the consequences. You may find this author (on libgen) interesting: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7014159-starving-the-monkeys >>64397 >who has no power to change societal standards Except you do have the power, because you choose the type of people you hang out with. Just as you have the power to choose to put Linux on your computer instead of Windows. >but muh games and muh cad You even have the power to choose to use Windows when necessary and Linux otherwise. And these choices change the societal standards that YOU are subject to, regardless of their lack of macro-effects on others. - >>64410 >"any place that is not exclusively white christian basically turns into mordor" Did you just do a racism against Mordor my dude? Problematic! Living in Mordor is just as heckin' valid as living anywhere else! That's why we should pay infinite reparations and accept infinite immigrants from Mordor but no one ever wants to go the other way. That's called equity! P.S. There's no room for the immigrants in my gated community so we're shoving them all into ghettos next to your house. We're also no longer publishing crime statistics for immigrants and in fact we've now made theft not a crime below $2,000; but owning firearms and making facebook posts is now illegal. P.S.S. Did you just bus those immigrants to my gated community? Racist! >>64406 I expect a response to >>64411 >That's why politeness is so culturally enforced in heterogeneous countries like Korea and Japan. >>64406 >This is what the all imageboard zero irl diet does to you Sitting all day in nice suburban school with no metal detectors != IRL.

Love making people write walls of text.. Gheheheh

>>64413 Filter of what exactly? People who "can't control themselves"? So you presume that anyone who can't process being polite is a scum (a very superficial and unfair judgement as for me)? There's an issue here: a person being rude may mean variety of things like being upset, not having enough energy to be polite, being in hard life circumstances etc...

>>64423 >Even assuming I don't particularly like you, that does not mean we must be outright rude to each other Means we should be honest about how we feel about eachother. If you dislike me you express it outright, no need to deceive me... No need to wear mask. >It would take nore effort to be mean No, it wouldn't, if that is how you actually feel about the person >IMO start doing more of it, improve your social skills, meet more people You know, me being good at it and hating it at the same time aren't mutually exclusive things...

>>64430 Of course you can, not being polite greatly hurts your chances to engage from the very start Nothing unfair in presuming you shouldn't be patient for someone who treats you like scum on his first interaction

>>64430 >being in hard life circumstances etc.. dumb reason. maybe such a person more truly lacks the energy but its perfectly possible to be in 'hard life circumstances' and not become an impolite theiving prick despite what some people (maybe just you) on this board seem to beleive. Politeness is a test that demonstrates a certain amount of discipline and similar background. It is required that it be burdensome and somewhat arbitrary in order to work as such a test. A person of similar background who has lost status might still be identified by his polite manner, but from a certain perspective such a person who's lost status and now doesn't behave politely perhaps didn't deserve such status to begin with. Test works. Consider it perhaps as you would a sort of cultural peacock's tail. The man who has the energy and power to learn and practice the ways of politeness has proven his energy, discipline, posession of a certain amount of intelligience and compotence, and his group membership. A man who cannot be polite must lack at least one of these valued traits.

>>64435 What do you mean by "status"? I assume a place in social hierarchy (a sorta social "rank")? Is that right?

>>64435 All these -handshakes (even if you hate a person guts) -"have a nice day" (even if you wish that person tripped and broke their arm) -useless "thank you", "please", "here you go" you say because not saying it would be "rude" Doesn't it make you feel bitter and resentful inside that those are used as a way to conceal your real attitude? I wish people were more honest with me. Politeness does a bad joke to people who have hard time understanding how human society and relationships work, I am talking about taking politeness for real attitude (they don't like me they're just being polite thing). Yes, we do live in a society. P.s. it may sound like I am an extremely hateful and resentful person IRL. I assure you it isn't so. I just have my opinion about some societal standards that I find stupid/useless and I do not wish to follow them (the word 'some', of course, implies that there are some {most of them} that are good)

Politeness is a code and a test that tells me if you are someone I would like to cooperate with and spend time around. The arbitrariness and artifice is part of the point - do you have the discipline and self-control to accommodate me and my feelings even when you're in a pissy mood? If so, this will make it easier for us to interact and work towards a common end. This lubricates social interaction, makes things go smoothly, provides stability. Some of this criticism sounds to me like a teenager realizing for the first time that humans are humans and not perfectly rational and honest robots, and wants people to be "authentic". But people's authentic thoughts and feelings aren't pleasant, and people like being comfortable. That's why human coexistence requires a degree of theater. You can think that's weak, but it won't change, and you'll put yourself at a severe social disadvantage if you decide not to play the game.