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Where do we get sense of authority and how does the whole system function overal? There was a dude I hate guts but I can't say it to him directly, he isn't particularly strong or handsome but he has very high self-esteem. When he speaks everyone listens to him. I can beat his ass pretty easily but when I talk to him my legs almost shaking.

>>64269 Russ Harris' The Confidence Gap is a pretty good book on the subject. Talks about the actual process behind developing confidence. It has a bit of a cheesy "self-help" writing style to it, but it's by no means bad, and if you're an anxious weirdo like I am, there's plenty to learn from it.

The collective gives you authority when it shares a common goal and believes your judgement will help it achieve the goal better than the judgements of the individuals therein. This is why whenever you see popular people, they're always working to benefit the collective. When people imagine a popular asshole and try to act like one, they essentially always fail. Popular assholes don't treat everyone like soykaf, they work for the collective and treat people who drag it down like soykaf. Big difference.

>>64269 >I can beat his ass pretty easily ops problem isnt lack of confidence its lack of initiative. if you can beat him, go do it. problem solved. Whats that you say ? you can't even talk to him ? Sounds like his rank is deservedly higher than yours.

>>64282 Sure it is. All I am asking is why do I have this subconscious innate feeling that drives my actions like those of an animal that I shouldn't be messing with him even though reasonably there seems to be no reason to be afraid of him. Why is this happening? The degree of me being influenced by the group is higher than I expected it to be and I dislike it very much

>>64278 >Popular assholes don't treat everyone like soykaf, they work for the collective and treat people who drag it down like soykaf. Big difference. Yes. I figured as much but why are we, those who are on the botton of the benificiality-chain are so subconsciously afraid of them? Is there any way to at least mitigate this, to be able to fuarrrk those dudes up?

>>64278 Are there any works that elaborate on this? I have never seen it this way, and it makes perfect sense.

>>64286 You're afraid of social retribution within your peer group.

>>64289 That is just my personal experience and what I’ve observed watching my popular close friend who by all accounts is an “asshole”.

>>64269 Jordan Petersons talks about hierarchy in the 1st chapter ("Stand up straight with your shoulders back") of his 12 Rules for life. I found that very interesting reading, though maybe not something that exactly answers your question. Basically, he claims the hierarchy is baked into our brains since millions of years ago, because when we compete for resources with others, it is better for both to not fight to death, but try to keep such conflict ritualized as competition and accept its results. And it may be very hard to fight against such fundamental part of your being.

>>64338 Jordan Petersen is a grifter, a fraud and an actual brain-damaged literal benzohead drug addict. The guy wrote his stupid book while high out of his mind on xanax, you should never, ever take anything he says or writes seriously.

>>64269 >I can beat his ass pretty easily But you can't beat up all this friends. A subconscious part of your monkey brain knows the popular guy has more friends than you and gives you these feelings to keep you alive. >>64339 Alternative hypothesis: Jordan Peterson is a hero who stood up for civil liberties against an authoritarian law which exploited the LGBT community to avoid criticism.

>>64339 >you should never, ever take anything he says or writes seriously. I know a lot of people don't like him (and I don't want to argue about him at large), but he is a psychologist and the chapter I recommend does talk about psychological topic. Feel free to disregard rest of the book. I personally found that part to be interesting and related to OP's inquiry.

>Jordan Petersen is a FRAUD >Jordan Peterson is a hero you have to admit in any case that he's at this point batshit insane and has been for years. Maybe he's a victim of some kanye west style celebrity drugging mind control operation, doesn't seem entierly implausible. That might be sad but that doesn't make him a reliable source. if he says things that are right from time to time, probably better to beleive them because they're right and not because they're from him. Even broken clocks are right twice a day and all that. Alternative hypothesis: He made some reasonable connexions and observations about modern society and i.e. lgbt soykaf while assiduously avoiding others. He is probably a stooge created as an outlet for certain types of people critical of the status quo, sufficiently risque but careful to only attack it from within its own frame. At the end of the day his main offering is comedy, a caricature academic giving sage advice to people on how to take control of their own lives and families while his falls apart around him. In slow motion for maximum lulz. In the 80s or 90s they'd just have just made it a sitcom, but nowadays we get a larper psuedocelebrity.

>>64338 >>64343 JP is just cribbing Carl Jung idea about archetypes. So idk why you'd fuarrrk around JP when you can just go to the source that's been around for 100+ years. Not to mention that so much work has been built upon these ideas that JP just ignores. So why listen to a guy with a Patreon when he's just regurgitating academic resources from 100 years ago.

>>64344 >He is probably a stooge created as an outlet... I don't think he was created. I think he genuinely got famous by accident by filing an gap in the market. I won't argue if you want to say he's been compromised though. At some point someone definitely sat him down and had a conversation about what he can and can't talk about. >Jordan Peterson is a hero I was kind of trolling. I mean it is somewhat brave to stand up to the government and the corporate media and all the NPCs they have programmed to defend them. My point is just that he attacked a thing that was wrapped in LGBT armor and now everyone who wants to be an "ally" has to loudly and unconditionally hate him no matter what. That explains dumb stuff like >>64339

>>64346 >why listen to a guy with a Patreon when he's just regurgitating academic resources from 100 years ago Because he can explain it in terms that non-academics can understand and apply it to a modern context?

>>64278 Been thinking about this great post more lately. I think replace "the collective" with "Memes within people/society which cause them to reward you" might be slightly more accurate. People are dealt low self esteem by society when its benefit reward mechanisms fail to function fairly often, even when giving them self esteem would be good for it. Also, sometimes keeping your self esteem low in necessary to get more out of you, IE soldiers having clear limits on what they can hope for. The best strategy is still to make it clear that you are already very useful to people with power, and are being held back from being even more useful by your low self esteem IMO. >>64289 I assume there's a branch of psych which deals with it. I've been reading *why zebras don't get ulcers* lately about stress response, and the author mentions low status monkeys being super nervous and eventually just shutting down. In this case, it's not so much because the low status monkeys are bad for the other monkeys themselves, but because monkey tribes which are cruel to their low status members apparently outcompeted those not so. A monkey in these could regain self confidence by overthrowing the others and getting to the top, which sort of "serves society" by causing the stronger monkey to reproduce, but not really.