Atheism

Is anyone atheist? Why are you atheist? For me, I'm not particularly religious but I don't consider myself an atheist. I certainly do believe in higher beings, and so I believe in "God." I just wonder what drives people to *not* believe in god. And please don't say it's because "religion is irrational/illogical" or anything like that, unless you have good evidence to support it.

>I just wonder what drives people to *not* believe in god. And please don't say it's because "religion is irrational/illogical" or anything like that, unless you have good evidence to support it. I just wonder what drives people to believe in god. And please don't say it's because "religion is absolute" or anything like that, unless you have good evidence to support it. What makes religion and higher beings unbelievable for me is the fact that there are currently around 4000 different religions being practiced at this moment on earth. Keep in mind that those are mostly major religions, there are over 45000 different sects of Christianity alone. So how can you be sure that what you believe in, is absolutely true and everyone else is wrong? Why do you think there is only one god? Is Zeus less of a god than a Christian god? What about Ra? Odin? Those are just imaginary? Do I need to please every one of them to live in the afterlife?

In recent years, being atheist and not being atheist is considered like belonging to separate tribes. Denying everything or believing in everything is flawed at best. For me, all religious passages contain some preserved thoughts, which could be deciphered when studied carefully. There is a reason why major documents like Bible weren't completely lost. Maybe altered throughout centuries, but if you're smart you will spot what was changed. As for myself, I'm not very religious. More or less curious I would say. Religion could be considered like any other cultural medium - there are fanboys, zealots, anti-fanboys, people who lack any opinion and repeat what they heard, and many more. And as they are all enjoying throwing soykaf at each other, there are also people who like to dive deep in this medium to search for meaning, differences, and enjoy deconstructing whole thing to simple pieces. Basic logic stating what is true and what is wrong does not apply here.

boring atheism: not believing in god because there's "no evidence", but worshiping science in a sudo-religious way despite never having personally tested any theories you believe in. superior atheism: Rejecting the authority of a god whether or not one exists, denying any being power over you regardless of how "real" something is.

>>6088 That image is kind of a strawman. It is heathenous to ask God to change his divine plan for mere mortals carnal earthly desires. No real religious person prays for that. That is bastardized 21st century version of "prayer". Prayer is meant to be wholesom humility and gratitute ritual to remind us what we are in relation to God.

>>6090 virgin atheist: "god created cancer" chad atheist: rejected god in order to masturbate

I don't know whether God exists or not. There's no (and possibly never will be) proof for or against god. Except lain, of course. Lain is god.

I was atheist for most of my teenage/childhood years. Then I came to realize that belief is a tool for understanding. Atheism isn't a conclusion to be reached. It is an active choice. I didn't believe in god simply because I hadn't taken the time to think up a god I could believe in. Anyway, I basically used the "god is the universal consciousness" definition for a while. Something about monotheism never really sat well with me, so now I'm working with a kind of animism.

I'm a non-theist by default I'd say. I can't recall a moment in my life where I believed in a god or any religious dictum. Nothing in particular drives me away from religion, I'm simply unable to believe in it's mysticism, my own inability to grasp religious experience.

Forms of theism and atheism are both radically dogmatic, therefore they discourage understanding.

True religion is Islam. Why don't you be my brother and sister? You can ask me what u wonder about Islam. I hope u read Quran. I suggest Muhammad Asad s translation.

>>6091 >Prayer is meant to be wholesom humility and gratitute ritual to remind us what we are in relation to God. this You're absolutely right Lainon. Nowadays people are bribing god like god is a jew...lol.

>>6097 Piss off with your true religion soykaft!!! True religion is do no harm to others, live in peace with nothing but love in heart.

>>6099 Did I say harm others , dont live in peace or something? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y2Or0LlO6g please watch this video and dont talk bad about my religion.

>>6100 What are you smoking Muhammad? You don't have to say anything about religion: facts and stats are here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_violence

Well, looks like it's going to be another QUALITY thread full of ill-defined concepts and ill-will. Let's see if I can avoid this myself. Agnostic atheist, or weak atheist, as in lacking a belief in any god : I was one at my birth and remained one throughout my life because all I was ever told about gods and religion by my parents and teachers was : >some people believe in it >I don't and you don't have to >don't bother them about it even if it seems ridiculous to you, it's very important to them Never having been indoctrinated young (no blind faith), having been educated to have a proper understanding of the world (no god of the gap), I never had any reason to start believing. I suppose a personal revelation is not impossible, but short of that I see no reason that I would ever convert. To those who will tell me about the great wisdom to be found in the various holy books : that might be true, but is not indicative of the existence of gods, only of the wisdom of the people who wrote those code of conducts. It is possible to profit from those wisdoms without starting to believe in the god described. Gnostic atheist, or strong atheist, as in positively believing that there are no gods : I am not one, even though at this point, the existence of gods is about as likely as us living in a simulation. Just like I recognize the possibility of it all being in my brain or me being fooled by a very powerful demon, I recognize the possibility of a god hiding away from us. Anti-clerical, as in against organised religions : It's a bit of the default position here, and I adopted it without thinking too much about it when I was still young. That said when I do think about it, I see no reason to change my position. Any positive aspect in the life of the devouts seem to be out-weighted by the negatives of giving power to a person over many others, especially when the promised punishment for disobedience is not just a fine or prison, but eternity in hell. I don't think I need to remind anyone about the paedophilia scandals within the christian church. Anti-theist, as in even if gods existed I would spit in their eyes and go to hell before worshipping them : A position I mostly held, to be honest, and an edgy teenager, but that I still like to hold when I have to talk about religion with religious people that I don't like, as it seems to piss them off more than mere lack of belief. However, in the specific case of the christianism (judaism and islam too ? not sure), the stories described in the holy book are so fuarrrked up that, even if it was proven to be 100% factual, I don't think the god would be deserving of worship. Apa-theist, as in who cares really ? Since, as far as I know, all religions that make specific demand to you are demonstrably self-contradicting and can not be taken seriously, any further questions about the existence of gods has very little bearing on our life. Just like the question of us living in a simulation. (Yeah, I'm being quite cavalier here, but I really can't bring myself to take any existing religion seriously.) Animist, as in hey wouldn't it be fun if we tried to talk to the streams and the rocks and the trees : I like the idea, and I do speak to trees when I'm on my own, but that's something I do for fun and introspection, not something I believe has any sort of reality.

Im nihilist by principle. I know what i know and i dont know what i dont know. I see no reason to assume some supernatural force exists just because x/y/z tells this and some people believe. If some god wants me to believe in it then he/she/it should send me a message that convinces me. Just as anyone else should provide me some reasonable argument. Neither do i really believe in science, i know my devices work when i plug them in to the power outlet, but i never did maxwells equations myself, i assume its correct because it works and it doesnt concern me. For all i know there could be little gnomes moving electrons around, but i have no proof one way or another and no reason needing any. Why would i concern myself with some god.

i am athiest, but not Athiest. (see byington's translation of stirner's usage of capitalization) i believe as there is no evidence for or against it it cannot be definitively proven obviously, but as far as things you can believe goes: why this? or why that? where does it come from if there is no evidence for or against it? it is just something that has been created out of thin air.

>>6108 >byington's translation of stirner's usage of capitalization Would you mind expanding on this please ? Searches return too many unrelated pages.

>>6109 His ego is tiny just like his ding dong That is why he wrote "I" with small letter.

>>6109 (from the ego and his own) Capitalization indicates a sacred concept in that translation, it actually created much confusion among people who read it without realizing this as the same word might be used twice with different capitalization but meaning different things. To put it simply it indicates a (sometimes ironic) religious devotion to the concept that is capitalized (and it's usage didn't stop at just a critique of Athiesm), there is a lot more to this but I'd have to write a bit of a novel to explain in a way that might seem meaningful in any way.

I believe instead of using reason and logic as a tool we hold it to be reality, and this isn't the case. Rather than use this limited model of thinking to gather useful information about the world, we assume the things we find out to piece together an accurate model of the earth. And then we are amazed as we go far in or far out just how complex the world is, how did all these atoms colliding create this. As if the atoms and quarks are the world and not the whole thing. Like saying humans ARE just piles of cells and chemical interactions, rather than chemical interactions and cells MAKING the human. And I think this is where much (not all) nihilism and atheism comes from. A reasonably smart person comes to understand that when broken down all we are is chemicals interacting and atoms colliding, and thus all this meaning and things we feel must be meaningless. But the minute you break it down like that you have lost site of the bigger picture. Kind of like how we can't know a particles position and momentum, as once we measure one we lose site of the other. Perhaps the most accurate way to really see how the world works is to simply look around and be. Not try to boil everything down to its constituents. So what is God? The minute we ask that we are trying to break God down into understandeable pieces, as if its possible. God is everything we dont know, anything you could possibly think up or observe isnt God. Because God isnt a thought, and God isnt your shelf or the sky or the walls in your room. But God isn't nothing either, that too is a thought. So does God exist? That would imply he exists as we know existence. The concept of God is unlimited, so anything with limits fails to describe including language. When you say God does or does not exist you already run contrary to the nature of what we are referring to when we say God. Following this train of thought begins to remove thoughts, the more you try to pinpoint God the more thoughts you must remove from your brain. Eventually you reach meditation, realizing thoughts or reason can't help you and letting them pass as quickly as they come. And in that state God "exists" and you have "found it". God is a thought killer, a state of being, everything in that moment and also nothing.

I am pohuist, and pohuism is my way of life. **Pohui = IDGAF**

I am what is more commonly known as an "Antitheist" The existence or non existence of a god makes no difference to me. If there is no god or gods then I am free to do whatever I like without fear of consequence beyond death, and more able to take the power commonly associated with gods as my own. IF god/gods exist then they represent the ultimate tyrants over the maximization of my degrees of freedom. I will seek to devour them, and gain their powers. It is quite simple really.

>>6148 >Anti - opposed to >theist - someone who believes in a deity >"The existence or non existence of a god makes no difference to me" stop using words you don't know definition of

>>6149 >complaints about language Is post-theist more to your liking? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-theism

>>6151 "Idiot who thinks he is smart" would be the best. But that is too long, maybe "idiot" for short.

>>6148 I used to have this stance, to see gods as evil tyrants. But I think that's really due to living in a society where christianism is the default religion, whose god certainly could be described as both evil and tyranic, depending on which part of the holy book you read. But. What about a creator god, who wouldn't intervene in his creation at all ? He would hardly be a tyrant, even if could argue he is evil for having created a world with suffering. But even then, maybe he is neither all-powerful nor all-knowing, and created to the best of his ability a world where we could live. A world which, if filled with pain, is also full of joy and beauty, so let's not be too harsh on this imperfect god. Of course, such a god wouldn't demand or require worship. Demanding worship immediately makes you evil and tyranic, in my opinion.

I figure the abrahamic god is pure evil. When I realized it was no different from the mafia, that was my cue to start quietly planning my escape and faking my death. They wont stop hounding me otherwise. No matter where I run, they will find me. And they will kill me. I love it! If this was one of my oldschool jrpgs, I'd grind up, get some friends and kick gods' ass. So, for now - escaping is the priority plan. It'll take time, though...

I'm a theist in the sense that there are gods, plenty of them, and while I'll occasionally interact with them I don't worship the stupid twats. That would just be weird for me to be honest. Not really used to worshipping anything. >>6156 >both evil and tyranic, depending on which part of the holy book you read. To be fair the Bible gives him a fairly bad rap. He was still a bit of a twat back then though. >What about a creator god, who wouldn't intervene in his creation at all ? What about a creator good that couldn't? What about a creator god with no real mind of its own? A god that looks at hate and pain and cannot tell it apart from kindness and joy. That's my creator god, a blind idiot, in the purest sense, no mind at all. I've no real interest in evangelising. I don't believe there's anything to gain from it and I've no problem with other beliefs. I quite like atheist thought, mostly because it hits at the heart of the issue. The world is not how it is because some higher power intended it to be this way. It is how it is because we made it this way.

>>6169 I would quite like to hear what you consider a god. I had a much longer post but I couldn't make it good or interesting.

>>6156 Whether the god is evil or not is unimportant. I want it's powers. Unless it gives them willingly, I must seek to take them if I want to have them as my own. This requires devouring the being that possesses such powers. The precise details of which are still hazy to my as yet mere human mind and limited intellect. If no god exists, acquiring god like power is much more straightforward, though still tremendously difficult. If god(s) exist then acquiring god like power is potentially more difficult and requires the additional step of acquiring those powers from their current possessor(s). Being tyrannical is not necessarily unacceptable. It is perfectly normal for an ultrapowerful being to become tyrannical, whether intentionally or unintentionally. An incompetent god strikes me as worse than an actively malicious one. But perhaps an easier deal can be made with the incompetent god than with the malicious one, averting the otherwise likely violent action required. Who knows. Certainly not I. Only that I want to become as close to omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient, as I possibly can.

>>6182 why would you want to be a god? You're a human, your mind isn't made for being godly, it's impossible. You could only attain godhood by dying and becoming something different, and then what's the point? >Being tyrannical is not necessarily unacceptable. It is perfectly normal for an ultrapowerful being to become tyrannical, whether intentionally or unintentionally. I don't see how that justifies tyrranny at all.

I am inclined to say that God exists, but I reject monotheism and all Abrahamic religions, so calling it a single God wouldn't be accurate. I believe in spirits and such entities, and many entities that we call gods are simply highly powerful spirits who are far more capable than others. That's the quick run down at least, maybe something like the Kybalion could explain it better. "Does God Exist?" is a loaded question in my opinion. My parents were atheists and whenever I showed doubts as a child they immediately worried for me and tried to convince me with dumb hedonistic arguments like "If you want candy, why doesn't God spawn it right in front of you?". Almost everyone in my country is atheist according to demographic data. To them all religion is a scam, because foreign Christianity and Islam are the only religions they know of. Most radical atheists would reconsider their positions if they'd learn about the non-Abrahamic religions and especially what remains of their folk religion. It's in the interest of the powers that be to keep people rooted in secularism and the myth of endless material progress. If people believe that the only thing that exists is this material plane, then they're more likely to fall prey to consumerism while sacrificing their essential identity at the stake in favour of rootless brand identity.

>>6185 Its funny things like this are always evidence to me against some kind of idealogical evolution that most atheists and some theists believe. Where they assume that you "progress" through beliefs and what not and reach a final conclusion as atheist or theist or whatever. In reality as you say it swings, its different for every person. Just as some kids are raised with god is the answer for everything, you were raised as god is the answer for nothing. You probably understand atheism better or just as well as some who would argue that you would be stupid not to be atheist, yet you believe otherwise. Out of no ignorance or lack of foresight you just have arrived at a different conclusion. I hope one day people can realize this, that their way of thinking or train of thought is never THAT much more developed then someone elses who believes different.

>>6148 >I will seek to devour them, and gain their powers. You know, that's exactly what you do in Orthodox Communion. You eat the body and blood of Christ in order to be purified by them, and to unite with the essence of Christ in theosis, to become God-like yourself. You just have to actually stop being an arrogant fedora-tipper for one second and bow to someone superior to you, but once you get over that you can start getting your God buffs.

>>6189 Except id argue the act of doing communion for some sort of reward negates any effect. Not off some system just mentally how are you going to be close to god, who does not desire power or any of that soykaf, while you have those goals in mind. I think theres much truth to the bible, other religious texts and old stories, I think many just describe laws of the mind and spirit almost. For example in order to be like someone you must share their mind and motives. If you seek to be as powerful as a god, you must share a gods motives. A gods motives are not to devour a god and gain more power. So youve already failed. Id say the benefits of communion come through the mental flow when one is in ritual or prayer, seeking to be closer to christ not to be like him but to know him. Those who want power never have true power, because power comes through not wanting. The more you want the more things that can be taken away from you and that bind you. The more you can be manipulated. This isnt some just some siddhartha buddhist enlightenment business only, if you just think about it its true.

>>6182 > God > It's power(s) The two are inseperable like fire and its' power to burn. I think there really ought to be a special council or something that comes out with what is empirically known by mankind about God, as a lot of the thinking comes from a purely anti-abrahamic lens ('belief' > science), which I personally find to be uncritical. Christianity has this issue with science, Hinduism has the same issue with historicity. None of the wisdom has been distilled in a meaningful way for the [modern] age. I believe it better to class what we're trying to discover as 'God Consciousness', a state to be attained, rather than an imposition on 'the material'. What was once thought of as the distinction: God Man I think now can be more accurately described as: Phenomena associated with post-rational, intuitive functions of the Neocortex, and; The rational, decision-making mind, the semantic time-binding mind, the reptile mind, and the amoeba consciousness that we have inhereted from evolution. I think it is really that simple. The 'man' that is made up of only his more mammalian behaviors is running on various programs like an autonomaton. He thinks himself very clever, because his brain gets hot for a while after reading a few books, but what does he do when his life is in danger? The fight/flight program kicks in. If you want a real world example of people with their energy trapped in this area, look no further than the alt-right SJWs. 90% of the people in this world are stuck in the rut of this previous 'man'/'matter' program, and will never get out. I see it as merely a matter on the control one has over their own 'programmed' self, and honing the ability to actually change reality, which kicks in after you somehow find a method to quiet the rational mind. This is not to say 'be irrational', but that phenomena do exist which only can be perceived in a state of mind that doesn't conform to the logic of one person's mental model of how things 'are'. This higher state of mind is opened through various means. Smoking hemp helps immensely towards the beginning if it doesn't freak you out too much. Practice of breathing exercises, and also, encompassing a lot of polarizations in to your worldview helps this state, called often the Opening of The Heart, to occur. You may see people tap in to this energy when they are about to transition genders, when they are confronted with a radically new POV, when they gain/lose large amounts of wealth. I think with this as a basis, we can see for instance, it is all a matter of understanding our own physical and mental limitations in order to unlock more powers of introspection. The grave issue in our biology at the present moment is that there are plenty of nerves going TO the neocortex, but only a small few coming FROM. Therefore an almost super-human amount of strength, willpower and above all concentration is necessary in order to carry the messages back from the frontal lobes, make sense of them, and put them in to action.

>>6193 You can't really get to know someone or something unless you join with it. I'm also not advocating "fuarrrk yeah give me power" as the sole reason to take communion. I'm just advertising to someone who wants to eats Gods and gain power(however it may take form) that there is an option to do it, as long as he's okay with the God being eaten not dying from being consumed, and through presumably re-evaluating what "power" would even mean and what moral gains you'd have to make to take communion.

>>6181 God is a word. It's up there with demon as one of the most overused words and is used to refer to a wide variety of disparate things. I talk about two gods in that post. The first is the "idiot god," Christians sometimes call it the holy spirit. It's the closest thing there is to a "real" god. Timeless, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent but also an idiot incapable of distinguishing between anything. The second is the god who appears in the Bible, Christians tend to call him the Father, but I prefer the god of the covenant (or the rainbow god or the god of slaves depending on how polite I want to be). He's a local thing and has little influence beyond the earth. He realised a long time ago that attempts to influence human affairs tend to backfire horribly and so he mostly stays out of our way. He had nothing to do with Jesus. Conflating these into one being is technically correct, we are all one, but then you should really be including everything else as well. >>6182 Power isn't a zero-sum game you know. I suppose if it's temporal power you're interested in then you'll need to depose the rainbow god just like you'd have to depose the government to rule the country. Personal power is another matter. Worry about yourself. Without control you could eat all the gods in the universe and get little from it. >>6183 >I don't see how that justifies tyrranny at all. The closest thing there is to a justification for the rainbow god's actions is that he was young and dumb and so were we. Hell, that title comes from one of his biggest mistakes or, more accurately, his promise never to do anything so bloody stupid again. >>6189 >You just have to actually stop being an arrogant fedora-tipper for one second and bow to someone superior to you That's an option but it's not the only one. Rule in hell or serve in heaven. The choice is yours and that's something far beyond the rainbow god's power to change. Hence why he's had to deal with rebellions before. Also, superior is the wrong way to put it. We are one. He isn't superior to me in the same fashion that I am not superior to an ant. When you're serving in heaven you all just play your part. A humble role is no less important. >>6197 Communion is a meditative practice and so beneficial in its own right. God couldn't give a soykaf though. The practice never had anything to do with him.

it's not just god is unverified, it's a dumb idea. "but what if god punishes you?" what if it rewards me? people make up these attitudes of god's personality from nothing. if we'll play that game i would argue a creator is evil/stupid for creating diseases, pain, and a destructive system of life for no justifiable reason. it created an ecology where most animals die before aging, then dying anyway. their death isn't quick. pretty much everyone is scared of a slow decapitation. but deers gotta deal with wolves all the time.

>>6216 incorrect, it's "there are dumb ideas of god". there are also dumb definitions of god, so arguing that "the definition of god is x" and x is dumb therefore all ideas of god is dumb would also be dumb. just stop arguing for or against buzzwords or if you do, find&replace the word with your definition of the word before you post.

>>6221 that's not my argument. i said god wasn't a credible idea. i can generalize and say no spirituality is credible. "people make up these attitudes of god's personality from nothing." a creator is a claim of so many things every definition is stupid and not worth anyone's time. >so arguing that "the definition of god is x" and x is dumb therefore all ideas of god is dumb would also be dumb. "if we'll play that game" isn't an argument of a definition. it's an argument that the bad event life happened, so if we're going to use the creator language, that's what it is, an evil, stupid, or sadistic mistake. i even said the word "would" and here i am explaining to a moron who cares about language so much about definitions and grammar. >just stop arguing for or against buzzwords i'm arguing against the belief in god, which involves me recognizing the concept in the post. get over it. your entire post just has no value at all.

>>6086 Just believe what you want to, even if it is bullsoykaf.

No gods can exist. Because I eat them at any time they come to be. Whenever a god is born I consume it at the moment of its conception and convert it's strength into my own, so that I may go on eating more gods forever and ever. QED no gods exist because I ate them all.

I probably have a similar situation as a lot of lainons: professional programmer, grew up almost entirely disinterested in religion or critical of it. It is easy to deny the idea of a God, especially on anti-authoritarian grounds. Folks who take the whole of the Bible as literal history are also difficult to reconcile with and are off-putting, discouraging any interest you may have had. I did not seriously begin questioning my own lack of any sort of faith until I really sat down and thought about the problem of the origin of morality. Read some of C.S. Lewis' books on the subject of Christianity. Mere Christianity in particular is excellent. He approaches it from a very skeptical point of view - he was previously an atheist.

If we want to talk freely and deeply about these kind of topics we must all first of all come to the common agreement that religion is a human concept; nothing in it can't be described, there are no higher influences, even if this means putting an effective, and depending on the person, discriminating, blanket over all of it. Once this level of discourse has been set, expanding into theology becomes more clear, more logic and rational.

>>7204 >more clear, more logic and rational. These aren't necessarily good things. Logic and rationality are human concepts too.

>>7205 >we work and think with our minds Wow, who would have thought?

>>7168 Lewis was an atheist early in his career, but later converted to christianity, in part because of his good friend (at the time) Tolkien. Thus we see works such as The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, that are full to the brim with christian alagory.

I'm not an atheist, but religion is a plague on this earth. "God" doesn't care about humans, Earth, or this universe or any other for that matter. It is all-knowing, all-power, but it couldn't give a flying fuarrrk about anything. It simply is. Calling it "God" or "a Being" doesn't really do it justice; imagine it being more like a constant like pi or the speed of light that exists because it does. All the other deities were created by it from the Unmanifest Chaos or are egregors made by us or some other higher-order organism. Followers of any religion that insist that this "Absolute" requires us to pray to it/love it is deluded. What do we have that it needs if it encompasses all and made all? Even more inane is to suggest that it has rules that it needs us to follow. The intellectually honest will say that their god isn't all-power/all-knowing, just at a degree that would seem so to us.